202 - Embracing New Experiences: A Bold Approach to Travel and Entrepreneurship with AtlasGuru's Kim Bennett

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Kim Bennett, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the founder and CEO of a company called Atlas Guru, found at atlasguru.com.

Which is one of the most interesting ideas I've ever seen.

It's the idea of travelers coming together and sharing their experiences on a website so that when you're doing travel planning, you can get actual live experiences of other people and not some of the BS that you get on websites. Cool idea. Welcome to the show.

Indeed. Thank you. Thank you, Doug. I'm so happy to be here.

So tell us, how the heck Did you get from where you were to where you are? Because I know you spent a lot of time in corporate. Give us a sense of your backstory.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I have about 20 years actually in classic corporate America. So I, yeah, I've, I have a background in marketing. I've worked across several coasts. Hometown is Seattle. I've also made my way to New York City where I worked at Condé Nast for a little bit. And then at Martha Stewart, actually. Doing retail, digital retail marketing for Martha Stewart in New York and had a fantastic experience there. I learned a ton about brand. She is somebody who I really admire actually in how she's built her business. And then I headed back home to Seattle. I worked at Amazon and helped start building some of their apparel business there, working in marketing and advertising, and then made my way to Nordstrom Corporate, also in Seattle. So I have kind of a steady career path in terms of digital marketing, um, over the past 15, 20 years or so. And I decided, you know what, I've done this, I feel good about my career and I've had a really fun ride in that. And, but I'm a passionate traveler and I'm also love to be in the technology world, love digital and advertising and marketing, and I love building things. And so I said, I think it's time for me to go out on my own. And sure enough, launched right before COVID Great timing.

Uh, when everyone was traveling, right?

Yes, exactly. Like what's a better time to launch a business in the travel industry in right before COVID But honestly though, and we can talk a little bit about this, but it, you know, it was a great learning experience because it gave me, you know, a long runway to quietly launch and to work out a lot of technology kinks. And to listen and learn and see what's going on. And so it was actually kind of a soft landing, if you will, to launch a business. So, you know, you kind of have to, to make lemonade out of lemons a little bit. But, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't the worst timing, actually.

So tell us about Alice Guru and what it's all about.

Sure. So really, it was inspired by— I am always taking international trips at least once a year, but working in, in corporate America, I only had maybe 2, 3 weeks vacation a year. So it was a really tight time. I had maybe 10, 12 days to fully take a, a great vacation. And so I would research, research, research, and I would go down the rabbit hole into travel forums. I would read blogs and, you know, you'd go anywhere from Reddit to TripAdvisor and buried deep in just reading people's real travel experiences. And I thought there has to be a better way for people to share their, their trips and their, ideas and their travel stories and their trip reports. And so, and that's what I really relied on was that real travelers sharing their travel stories of what they wish they did differently, how they could adjust their itinerary, what they would have skipped. So that's where kind of the genesis of Atlas Guru was born is I really want to have real travelers share their travel stories, what they've learned, and, you know, put that in an experience that is really beautiful and easy for users to to read. So that's kind of the genesis.

How do you generate revenue? How, what's your monetization strategy?

So right now it's just purely advertising, but we have actually some pretty exciting things that are kind of at, at the forefront that are coming up for Atlas Guru. We're starting to partner with tour operators and do more on the site in promoting some of their trips as well. We also launched this year, we jumped on the AI bandwagon, and so now we have integrated ChatGPT on Atlas Guru to create AI-generated itineraries. But what makes us a little bit unique is that all of our content is user-generated content. So AI uses the data of those travelers first before going out, um, to the web to create that itinerary. So what makes that kind of cool is that you're really using real travelers as the data source to build that itinerary. So we see some pretty cool upside to that as well.

That's pretty cool. And are you getting— does ChatGPT generate some pretty cool itineraries?

Yes, exactly. And again, we're giving source credit back to those travelers that kind of contributed to that AI. So you can see kind of how that itinerary was, was created. So yeah, it's pretty neat and it's really at its infancy and we're looking to add AI through various forms on the site as well. So I think when used with that kind of human touch and the human element, AI really can make sense. So we're excited.

Good for you. So these days you got this thing launched, it's a beautiful website. Presumably you're getting it's getting known and you're getting a presence out there. What is it that gets you up in the morning to get you excited to go to work on this?

Uh, honestly, it's fun to talk and share about travel. I could— ask me any question about trips and travel and, you know, I could talk all day long. But no, it's really fun to see what are people publishing, what's interesting, what's happening out there. But then also on the tech side is really getting me excited. Who's using AI, how are they using it, how can we better the experience for our users, you know, what is it that they're looking for, you know, you're talking about listening, we have to listen to our users and what can I do to make the experience better. So that's kind of what gets me excited and out of bed is one, talking about travel, which I, I get to do throughout our website in various forms, but then two, just kind of learning from the tech standpoint, like what's new, what's happening, and what are users, what can we do to help users?

So as you think about back on your career in corporate and all the different companies you worked for and now owning your own company, what do you think is unique about you that's allowed you to be successful?

Yeah, it's, it's kind of funny. I've taken, you know, in corporate America, you take all those different tests and personalities and, you know, how, what makes sense and Several of those, I think I did the StrengthsFinder test and several of those say that, you know, I'm kind of the one that jumps ahead or I don't get bogged down into the details. I just want to like, go, go, go. And I want to launch something tomorrow and that sort of thing. And I kind of have this entrepreneurial spirit, I think, within me. I also like to think big, you know, what can we do that's like really impactful? And so I think having some of those. Those traits sometimes in corporate America is really hard. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I struggled, you know, working in very large organizations with lots of complex bureaucracies to them. Sometimes that, that's not a great fit necessarily always with me. I love working with small teams. I love to move quickly. So for me, it just started to make sense that you know, I have this entrepreneurial spirit and bug and like, let's take advantage of what, how I like to work.

So yeah, you sound, you, you're a visionary and you like to be able to implement your visions or find people to help you implement your visions as rapidly as possible. That's what, that's, that's your, your, your, your unique identity.

Yes. And that doesn't, that doesn't always, you know, flow well with colleagues in corporate America. Sometimes one of my dearest friends, we work side by side together and she is, you know, she's got every little task down. She's very buttoned up. She's, you know, plays by the rules. And her and I, while she's one of my best friends, we just really struggled working together. Cause I'm like, ah, skip that. Let's just move ahead. And that doesn't always. You know, building consensus within large organizations, it's hard, you know, and that doesn't always— sometimes I'm like, yeah, it's all right, let's just move forward. We'll launch it and we'll work out the kinks later. That doesn't always— that doesn't fly in a lot of organizations.

No, risk averse.

Yes.

And so if you're taking— if you're going off out on the edge of the cliff without having a lot of rope tied around you.

Yes. What I, what I've learned with that though is surround yourself though with people that bring different skill sets and strengths. And so I think that is absolutely critical. Have the best team that can deliver results, but still think big and do all those great ideas. But at the same time, you know, you don't wanna bully your way through an organization. So I think having a really great team is everything.

That is every day that I interview leaders like you, that's, I hear from successful people over and over again. They say the most important decision you can make are your hiring decisions.

Absolutely.

Who are the people that you're bringing in? Because they're the ones that are going to make you successful and they're the ones that are going to allow you to scale.

Yeah. And I think it actually depends on the role, right? So, you know, is it, you know, somebody that's kind of a mid to senior level manager that can work across the organization that can have, you know, hard conversations, but then also know how to push things through quickly. So I think there's different skill sets, different leaders for different skill sets, right? Or do you have somebody that's just a workhorse and a great taskmaster that's super organized and you just put the tasks in front of them and you just tell them what they need to, to accomplish. So I think what's important as a manager is you have to find what makes people thrive. And that is very different for many people.

So, and that gets, that gets me to the importance of listening.

Yes.

How else are you going to find out what makes people thrive unless you listen? So how did you learn to be a good listener?

Oh, I mean, it's not always easy. I think taking the time to, to sit down and really ask those questions about what makes an employee happy within their job, what do they like to do, What, what tasks don't they like to do? And we can't always just pick and choose what we want to do every day. I wish that was the case, but I think probing and asking those questions of employees is super important. And sometimes they don't know themselves. So it takes some time and encouragement. So yeah, I think having those regular conversations are really important with employees.

How'd you learn how to do that?

I don't know, actually. I mean, I think it's an interesting, it's, it's an interesting question.

Yeah. Your answer is honest and also, yeah, difficult that we don't know how we learned how to listen.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, how to listen.

Yeah.

I don't know if I necessarily, I can't say that I have like, you know, some esteemed mentor that taught me this, but, you know, I do think that Taking the time to have some empathy, to sit there and talk to employees about like what's going on. You know, most of the time when you have challenges within your team, something's going on with that person outside of the office. Right. So I think it's always important to give them the space that they need to share, like what's going on. And maybe it's good, maybe it's not. Sometimes there's great things happening and they need some more time to work on whatever that may be. But, you know, I think having— just taking that small amount of time with your employees often to ask what's going on is super important.

I love that question. Hey, tell me what's going on. And then what I teach, I teach people how to validate emotions. The one need that we all have that we don't get met very often is the need to be heard at a deep level. And so if you've got an employee or a team member who's struggling because of maybe some crisis at home or some other problem, they're going to have a lot of emotion around that. And, you know, the societal norm is pack, leave your emotions at the door. Well, they can't do that. They're human beings. They're going to bring everything in with them. But if as a leader you can sit there and for 2 or 3 minutes just listen and reflect their emotional experience so they feel deeply heard, two things happen. One, they calm down, which means they become productive, which is what we want. And two, you become the leader that everyone wants to follow because you're creating emotional safety. And that's, that's the secret, I think.

Yeah. And I feel pretty lucky. I've had most of the— most of my teams have pretty much stayed together. I mean, with launching Atlas Guru, I have the same group almost since day one. And I think, you know, part of that is, you know, there's been all kinds of things happening with, with everybody within the group. There's been babies born, there's been moves, there's been marriages, there's been changes in people's lives. And I think giving people the space to go through that, you know, I have one person that's taking college courses and still writing code for the site, you know, and we, we flex around that. So giving people that flexibility, but then also, you know, there's time, we have pressure, we have things that we have to do. They step up knowing that they can kind of back off when, when needed. So I think understanding a little bit about what's going on in somebody's personal life without, you know, overstepping is really important because it just, it gives them, I think, enthusiasm to work for your company.

So is your company mostly remote?

Sounds like it's—

Yes. Yes.

So you've got people spread out all over the place.

All over the place. Yeah, it's crazy. We've had, I mean, at one point I think I had 5 different time zones on one status meeting. I went from like Poland to Mexico to Colorado to, I mean, it was all over the place, but yeah, we make it work, which is great. Um, yeah.

How do you go about listening to the, to your, the people that come to your website, your customers and people, your, your travelers who are posting their experiences?

Yeah, typically it's right now it's like one-on-one outreach. So it really is like, you know, tell me what's working, what's not, you know, what, what are you hearing out there just in the travel space? What trends are happening? You know, so I do try to do one-to-one outreach with our audience. But that is definitely something I can improve upon. You know, how can I scale that in a much bigger way is something that we've talked about.

In other words, having more, more people in the company talking to people.

Yes.

For example, posting their, their, their journeys.

Yes.

And reaching out and interviewing them and finding out.

Yes, experience. Exactly. Yeah, we're always thinking about scalability when it comes to the business.

So when you, when you're thinking about scalability, how do you see Atlas Guru scaling?

I mean, what I'd love to see is, again, we definitely want more content, more contributors, more travel stories, and that can come from various sources. You know, that can come from travel experts where that could be a travel advisor. I still love working with travel advisors myself. I still hire tour guides. I recently went on a trip to Savannah and Charleston. I hired local guides. I'd love to hear them contribute to Atlas Guru. So So that is definitely something that we're looking at and exploring is like, how can we grow and bring in the experts also to Atlas Guru? So that is just one kind of example that we're looking at in terms of scaling the content.

Looked to me like you had a pod— did I see that you have a podcast going now?

I do not have a podcast. That's not yet.

Oh, but that's on the, that's on the list of things to do.

It's something we talk about, but yeah.

How, how else do you plan on growing the business and, and growing your revenue source?

Oh yeah. Again, like I said, how I can bring travel advisors to Atlas Guru, that is really somewhere that we're, we're starting to look at is can we make this like a really beautiful kind of experience where not only is it inspiration for travelers, but then they can also connect with a travel advisor. And set this up where it's really on the traveler's terms. So it's everything from, again, inspiration to full bike love service with the travel advisor. And then how can I build that in between? Maybe they want to book on their own terms. Maybe they want to work with a professional one-on-one.

Well, you— I mean, do you see— do you see offering services beyond just providing information for people that draw eyes to the website?

Yes, yes, absolutely. So, you know, again, like I said, how can we do more transaction for the users? And I think, you know, there's publishing brings traffic to commerce, right? So I think that there's a really nice marriage that can happen there. How that's all going to come together is still working that out.

Of course. I'm just curious. Share with us the most interesting travel story that you've seen come across the website.

Oh my gosh, the most interesting travel story. I mean, I've seen, you know, travelers go traveling to Lapland in the winter, I think is pretty wild. Yes, yes. And that's the other thing too. Seasonality is really changing. It's not about, you know, traveling over spring break or traveling in the summer, that sort of thing. So we've definitely seen, you know, the, the crazy winter travel type stories. We've seen surfing in Ecuador, I think is pretty cool. I mean, what a great surfing experience to go to Ecuador and go surfing, right? So, right, yeah, we have a pretty adventurous audience. So we're seeing all kinds of different, like, trekking. I've seen road trips. Throughout Africa, which I think is really cool. Oh gosh, there was one in Ethiopia. You know, I've seen all kinds of different, like, really in-depth, very adventurous travel throughout the world. It's been, it's been really fun to see. If anything, I'm a little light on content when it comes to the United States. But we're seeing, like, such great adventures outside of the US in areas that I'm excited myself to even travel to. Wow.

What's your next trip?

I have a couple this year, actually, but, um, one that I'm really looking forward to is going to Scotland. I've never been to Scotland and doing hiking, so going up to the Highlands and, and going hiking. So that one, that one is, is one that I'm looking forward to. I always try to kind of include a city and a little bit of active with all of my travel, and so That, that one is, is happening a little bit later this fall.

That's going to be pretty cool. Then you have a travel website, you love traveling, you're no longer constrained by a 2 or 3 week vacation. You get to write the whole thing off, right? All you got to do is have the cash flow to pay for it. You're good.

Yes. I mean, there, there are always limits. Yes. But no, I mean, you know, again, like just, I totally empathize with employees that only have 14 days of vacation a year and you're trying to squeeze every day out of that vacation, not to mention budget, right? So, you know, it's, it's, I get that. I've been there and, and I, I fully understand it.

One more question. I'll let you go. What's one thing about yourself, Kim, that we would never know about unless you revealed it to us?

Oh gosh, that's a big question. One thing. I don't know. One thing that I, that nobody, like nobody would know about me.

Something quirky, something different.

I mean, I am a master of none when it comes to sports. I will try almost anything. I lately I'm, you know, I'll, I'll try rowing. I'll do horseback riding. I will do triath— I've done triathlons. I've done half marathons. I've hiked mountains in New Zealand. But I am a master of none. I mean, I've done— I have a white belt with 2 stripes in mixed martial arts, which means, you know, I'm like, like what a 6-year-old would get. But I literally will try any kind of sporting activity. I've done surfing. I'll do anything. I don't care. I think it's fun. I want to try new things.

You're all about the experience.

Yes.

Not necessarily mastery.

Yeah, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. Life is short and I want to try everything and I want to explore everything and I don't care if I look like an idiot, I'll do it.

Wow. Good for you. You are living the life that you dreamed of.

Yes, I am. I'm very grateful.

Good for you. Well, thank you so much for your time today.

Thank you.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my Wanna know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.