207 - Elevating Leadership Through Coaching and Personal Development with DutchX's Marcus Hoed

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started. Marcus Hood, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the co-founder of a company called DutchX out of New York City, sustainable transportation Welcome to the show, and let's start off by finding a little bit about who you are and what your backstory is.

Thank you, Doug. I appreciate it. So as I'm originally from, from the Netherlands, born and raised in Amsterdam, moved to New York City, it's about 20 years ago. It's this year, 20 years, where I grew up in probably one of the, the main logistics hub in Europe, in Europe with the largest harbor. It says it's quite a logistic hub for many other countries within the, within the EU. So when I moved 20 years ago to the US, wanted to learn and understand the environment, cultural part of the United States, especially New York, before I explored more my entrepreneurship. So for 10 years 9 years to be exact, I've been working for multiple companies to understand more of, of this particular cultural piece. And 9 years ago— this is now 11 years ago, sorry— Ariella, who is my business partner, who's also my, my wife, we started Dutchex as a cargo delivery company where we started to import Dutch bikes, the traditional cargo bikes from the Netherlands to do deliveries here in New York. One of the biggest mistakes we maybe made, but that all being said, I think we learned from it. So why was it one of the mistakes? When we imported the, the cargo bikes, which are in Dutch bakfiets, we came into a city which was not at that time very bike friendly. There were no bike lanes yet. There were on the side of the roads a tremendous amount of potholes. And the other part was that the cost of the cargo bike to import it was relatively very, very high. But then we started to operate, so we started to realize that there are no parts available here in the US. So the next step was we needed to start importing parts. Then when there was mechanical work that needed to be done, We had to find a mechanic who knows very well how to do mechanical work for a Dutch cargo bike, which did not exist. So we tested it, this model, for 6 months, and we realized very, very well that that was not the right way to start it. We really envisioned that even though now, 10 years later, it really became the much better mode of transportation, but Let's say it like this. We really envisioned to do the deliveries for retailers and e-tailers on a much broader scale than just being a courier. I remember when we started Dutch X, everybody was calling us this new courier company here in New York. For us, couriers are very translated to rapid and speedy deliveries, which is ordering from a restaurant, getting your food in 30 minutes, 15 minutes. This is not something where, what we do, we do it just to satisfy our clients. And in our technology, we have built that in a module that we can provide the service, but where we are really, our strength is to, to provide cargo deliveries in a much longer routed, routed base.

So explain to me what that means.

What does that mean? If we take, for example, the UPS and the FedEx of this world, where is the efficiency coming from and where can you be cost efficient for at the end, of course, the customer, but also the consumer? Is we are fully W-2 company. What means that we only operate with employees. We don't have any independent contractors. And this comes with a certain cost. The more deliveries. This particular individual employee can do, relatively the lower the cost is. So the more, the more parcels we can provide at the same time for these routes with the correct density and the correct infrastructure, we can reduce the cost and compete in a market where UPS and FedEx are, let's say, dominating. I see.

So what you're looking for to get clients along given routes where you can increase your package per, your package per route density, and that increases your overall efficiency and profitability.

Correct. So we do, we provide also mid-mile, and then we have third parties who provide their own mid-mile. So every single morning we are picking up parcels from many 3PLs, many logistics centers and warehouses, bring them to one of our logistics hub here in the city. Where we sort all the parcels and we route them and we batch them. And from there we put them in a containerized solution. And from there the delivery associates are showing up and going out on the last mile of the delivery piece, which is in most cases and for most companies like ours, the most expensive piece.

The last mile, right.

The Last Mile.

And how's the company working out for you now?

Company is— we're growing at the moment extremely rapidly. In 2019, when the first— when the bike lanes got introduced, when there were some better solutions, cheaper solutions for cargo trailers, we started operating with, let's call it, the first generation cargo trailers. Was also not like the most amazing solution, but it was a workable solution. But from that day, better solutions has been come on the market. And from that moment on, we have been growing quite rapidly.

So when you talk about cargo trailer, I take it it's a trailer is hooked up to a, a bike. I would imagine these days they're e-bikes and, and the, the, the bike rider driver is running the bike, hauling the trailer, and then making deliveries and various buildings along a route.

Yeah. So that's, let's call it the, the trailer piece, but now you have even the containerized trailers, which is like a box with, let's keep it in simple words, with wheels underneath who can be pulled by a bike. But also the latest ones are, are e-quads, which are almost kind of small vehicles, four-wheel bike operated vehicles who, who we are also utilizing.

And these are all electric, so they're, so, so they're clean.

They're all electric, but it's all pedal assist, so it's not like full throttle that they use the throttle, right? It still has to be some human, uh, efforts put in there.

Well, that probably works pretty well in New York City where it's pretty level. Be a little more challenging, I think, in San Francisco where there's nothing.

So I know, so San Francisco, but on the other side in San Francisco, and, and we have many different solutions out there, so we also have even trailers who are battery-assisted, so they're e-trailers. And we have been testing this in, in certain areas around New York, not in New York, even though there is one— I don't even want to call it the hill, but they do call it the hill— somewhere around 100th Street. But we have been testing them outside New York, and, and yes, they can potentially go up the hills in, in San Francisco. But what our our expertise is to create this hybrid model where we utilize e-vans and e-cargo bikes. Because if you take the city of LA where we are scheduled to, we're going to open our office in 3 weeks from now, our first office in LA. And our next goal is to, let's say the goal of the company is the end of Q2. I think it's more realistic Q3 to start operating in LA. Where you have within LA certain very dense pockets, right? But other areas, as it's such a spread out city, right, they are less dense. And our technology and our, and our team have been making the formulas and the calculations to create this hybrid model between events and e-cargo bikes, e-quads. So within, for example, city of, of Los Angeles, we will, we were working on hybrid model.

Right, because you could, you could have downtown Los Angeles, which is dense, Century City, which is really dense, Santa Monica, kind of dense, West LA, kind of dense, but other parts of the city are, you know, kind of spread out, as you said.

Correct. And, and then the other thing is there are many initiatives in, uh, in the United States, especially on, uh, on governmental level and on state level, to start to, uh, reduce dense And so we are getting, for example, city of Santa Monica has major initiatives to really create like a zero emission zone. And so we with our solutions can absolutely provide all the deliveries to up to a certain weight and certain size. We also have to be fair there to as well as wholesale, as well as retail, as well as e-commerce. Wow.

So what is it that gets you up in the morning and gets you excited to go to work?

I'm in the most exciting industry there is. It's an extremely fast, rapid industry. There's never a dull day. Um, that makes me very excited, and I just love to understand and study all the, the data what we are retrieving just to keep optimizing to, to become more and more and more efficient. The other thing is that we, as we are fully employee-based organization, we have also created our own proprietary technology, which is all based on, on operation management and on employee management, because we see our employees as one of our main assets. And as we are in an extremely price-competitive market, We have to find very good ways, and especially technology can help us with this, to operate on the highest level. So performance is of course extremely important. If you anticipate to get your package or your parcel today at 10 AM, 10:01 is on itself already a fail. But also to do that in a very, very, very cost-efficient way and also What we have seen is that if you have a delivery associate, when you speak to them, and I love to be involved and I go myself to many of our facilities to speak to them, to hear their feedback and to understand the challenges where they go through during the day to find ways to help them and make it at the end for them also easier. And then to build that in a model into our technology to become even better. What I'm trying to say is every— most of the delivery associates we will speak to, they're all saying, I'm doing amazing, I'm doing a great job, I'm working very hard every day. The question only is, is this working hard being also very efficient for them? And by showing them the way they perform, and not against just the expectation of the company, because I can expect from them 20 deliveries per hour. Is it fair? Maybe yes, in certain areas, maybe not in other areas. But we also compare them against their peers and not to create a competition, just to give them the awareness of how they are performing.

And, and so it— you're being driven by the need to be efficient because you're dealing with employees who are getting paid on an hourly basis, not getting paid commission or by the job. And, and, but you're also, and you're trying to create a culture where the employees feel valued and are motivated to get to become even more efficient in their work.

I think they are our biggest asset. The image I can— I don't do the deliveries myself. I can bring here and say to all our customers the most beautiful and most amazing story, how amazing we are. But at the end, I'm not customer or consumer facing, right? And our delivery associates are. And when we always say if this delivery associate shows up with a smile on their face and shows how happy they are in what they're doing and the pride they're taking in what they're doing, it will benefit the company extremely. I will not forget during COVID when we were still doing, of course, deliveries. Especially on the, on grocery level, that our delivery associates found little notes. And this is a true story, found little notes outside people, their apartments, from kids. Thank you so much for delivering the food today. You are the hero.

Wow.

That, that is, I think that that is really, really special. And that also gives them the feeling they're doing something really special.

All right. That's really neat.

Because it's not— oh, sorry.

No, go ahead. It's not just—

no, I wanted to say, you're serving people. People think it's an easy job. You come in in the morning, you take, uh, your eQuad, your e-bike, or your vehicle, and you go out on the deliveries. Do they have the same time pressure as the food delivery guys? No. But do we anticipate them to finish their work at a certain time? Yes, because this is the efficiency that we have to build in. So do they have certain time pressure? Yeah, they do. Maybe less than in the food delivery market. And to be on a bike in traffic or in poor weather circumstances, you mentioned it, for 4 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours a day. Um, it's not always easy. And people, I think the, the, a lot of people underestimate the challenges that some of the employees are, are going through.

Absolutely. So what is it that's unique about you, Marcus, that you bring to the table that's made this business so successful?

We strongly believe in sustainability. We, and I think that this is one of the key aspects. Of course, I have a Dutch background. I grew up, uh, with bikes. I could ride a bike before I probably could even walk, even though it was, let's say, this mix between this walker and bike, two in one. So I understand this extremely well. The other side is why are we successful is because our delivery is fully, fully green. We really trying on every level to, to think about sustainability. Our facility, one of our facilities is fully solar driven. And, and, and this is where we are really looking to, to make a difference to the environment, to the customer, and also the consumer, and to make the customers and the consumers aware there are solutions out there for a very competitive price. And this is where there is a, where there is a lot of interest. And of course, I think also the involvement. My business partner and I, we are very involved in the company itself because we, we just see that. And I'm not saying it's involvement on every level, but we know what's going on. We do everything, and we used to do everything ourselves. Now it's a little bit different. But we're still going out on the field. I still want to understand what's happening.

So it's you and your wife own the business, is that correct?

That's correct.

How do you divide up responsibility in the business?

That's the big question people always ask me. How can you work with your wife? I think we have the most beautiful relationship. So we split it up in, I'm responsible for sales, marketing, operations, data, and finance. Where Ariella, who is my wife, she's responsible for liability, insurance, uh, the people itself, technology, which, as I said before, is a major piece of our efficiency. That's the side of Ariella's responsibility. And of course, a lot of it is overlapping. Right. But that being said, yes, we challenge each other, but we both have the same idea, the same vision, and we want both the same outcome. And this makes it just successful.

So this show is called Listening with Leaders. So tell me about how important it is for you to listen to Ariella.

I think it's extremely important because at the end, I cannot do it by myself. We both have strengths, we both have weaknesses, and to identify those and to speak about the weaknesses but also your strengths to each other and be open and honest about these things. I think it's in general in life, by the way, but especially if you run together your business with your wife, I think it's very, very important.

How did you learn how to listen?

How do I learn how to listen? I think I speak, I think I speak a lot in this, this podcast, but how do I learn how to listen?

Well, let me rephrase that. Is listening a skill that you've acquired just in business experience over the last 20 or 30 years? Is it something you develop, or is it just something that just sort of— you just don't think about it and it just sort of happens?

I think it's interesting. I think that my, my, especially my father has a huge influence on this. When I used to be a child, and every child does stupid things, depends on to which level. And I always, when my father said, why did you do this? The first thing I would say, I'm sorry. And he always told me, he calls me Mike, by the way, but he always used to tell me, Mike, sorry is one word with 5 letters. Let's speak about it. So I said my thing, and then my father started to say his vision of it, which of course as a child you don't agree to.

Right.

And he kept telling me, listen first what I have to say. When you listen to what I say, you can adapt, you can change, or maybe you say, Dad, I absolutely disagree because there's nothing wrong by disagreeing as long as it's, it is respectful. And from there you can say sorry and show me sorry. And I think that this has made me who I am.

Wow. I think that's really insightful that your father said, listen to me and don't say anything until you really understand what I'm saying, and then you can comment. I think that's an insight and a rule that many people never learn because when they listen, they're listening on their own agenda to be heard. Yeah.

When you speak, you don't think.

That's right. That's right.

When you listen, you have to use— you have to pay attention. Exactly.

That's why, that's why I think listening is the foundational skill of life. In, in my work as a lawyer turned peacemaker, I teach people how to listen to emotions rather than to words, and because that gets you into an even deeper level of listening than just listening to the words and allows you to do and transform relationships in really powerful ways. So that's why I'm always interested in it with my guests. How did you learn how to listen? And you learned from your father and then of course years and years and years of business experience has taught you a lot too. Do you ever get emotionally hijacked or hijacked by the—

Yeah, I do.

Yeah. Tell me about that.

Yeah. For me, it's, it's, it's, it's I don't mind when people make mistakes. I don't even mind when people make twice the same mistake. But for me, it's always like, speak about it. If you have a challenge, get me on every level, speak about it. And if you don't learn and you keep making the same mistakes and you speak about it, it can get me— it can really frustrate me.

You get really frustrated.

Yeah, because again, my door is always open. Let's say I'm not always available, but it's always open. And even you call me at night, you can ask a lot of my, of our employees, even at night I pick up my phone for them. So if you see challenges or you don't understand something or whatever it is, you can call me. The other part is you don't have to lie to me. There is no reason to come up with a story where nobody in this world is perfect. Even AI is not perfect, uh, self-driving vehicles by robots are not perfect. So how can you anticipate a human is perfect, right? So if you make a mistake, don't start to try to put it somewhere below the carpet. Just speak about it and Would it make me happy? Probably not. But would it make me upset? No, I can respect that. And for me to not telling the truth or to go keep going around it is for me not necessary. Right.

It seems to me that as a leader to get people to speak truth, even though it saying things that you might not want to hear, that you have to create some a certain amount of safety in your culture so people feel emotionally safe. They know that if they bring the truth to you, even if it's a bad truth, that they're not going to get their head snapped off. How do you go about creating that safety?

That's a good question. I think by giving them the, the compliments and the opportunities to, to say it and not right away get upset or challenging on a very high level. Again, listen to what they think. That listening is also a piece of this, listening what they have to say and ask them the right questions and give them the comfort at the end that I'm this role and you can lean on me, I can help you, come to me and speak.

So it's almost as I think in some places you're almost acting like a coach. And you're helping people develop and learn, and they, they feel that, so they feel comfortable coming to you with problems, um, that you can help solve.

I think at the end, everybody is a coach, even if you're a coach of yourself or a coach to other people. We're never too old to, to learn. We're never— so coaching is always, is always part of your success and of your growth. If you don't If you cannot get coached or you cannot coach other people, I think that you cannot grow, first of all, within a company, especially if you cannot coach other people. And if you are not willing to be coached anymore, you don't learn anymore, right? You, you stand still. And, and again, we are living in an, in 2024 where things are evolving extremely rapidly. Technology is taking over a lot of things, and coaching is, is just key. That's how you can bring people to a better and higher level.

I think, I think that's, I think that's right. And I think that's one of the key aspects of leadership that a lot of people miss is the leader's role is teach, coach, and bring people along, develop them into better human beings and better, better employees, better managers, better leaders within their organization.

And, and I always say I'm as strong as my team around me.

That's right. And if you can strengthen your team by making them better, that makes you better yourself. And I think that's something that a lot of people miss. And I think the key to that goes back to listening, knowing how to listen and what to listen for, so that, so that you're not trying to fix problems prematurely. You're really listening to try to understand what's really going on And then help coach the person that you're listening to find the solutions that will make them grow and improve the situation. Seems to me that, that, that's a vital part of your leadership.

I agree.

Yeah, interesting. Well, one more question, I'll let you go. What's one thing about yourself that we would never know about unless you revealed it to us?

Now you ask me a question, one thing about myself.

I love asking this question.

Wow, I wish I have some time to think about it and get back to you.

Something frivolous that comes off the top of your head. For example, you'd never know that I'm a jazz violinist unless I told you.

You know what it is? I'm such an open book for people who know me, they— that, you know what it is, it's something interesting. I go to the gym 5, 6 times per week.

Okay.

I need it. I need this for myself.

You need the exercise to clear your head.

It's, it's emptying my head when I had a bad day instead of again going out to my employees. No, no, I'm kidding now. But I, I can put my, my everything in there and this 1 hour, 1.5 hour is somewhere I schedule it mostly at like 4:30, 5 o'clock. For example, my entire team, they know that around this time I'm in the gym.

Okay.

And this is, this is a time that I will not pick up my phone.

There you go.

I will call them back the moment I get out.

Right.

Because I know when they will call me at that time, probably it is a problem. It is important. And even some of my largest clients, I go even a step further. They know that I'm at this time in my, in the gym.

Right.

And they hardly, uh, they would send me a text. Can you call me when, can you call me or, or anything? And I think that this also keeps me, uh, thinking clear and, and, and keeps my brain open-minded for, for anything else.

Good for you. Well, Marcus, thank you so much for taking time outta your busy day to chat with us. I really appreciate it. It's been a great conversation.

Thank you, Doug. I appreciate it. Any questions, please.

You're welcome.

All right. Thank you.

You bet. Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnoll.com. Doug Noll.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.