258 - Art Matchmaker: Connecting Emotions and Aesthetics in Client Relationships with Mason Lane Art Advisory's Katharine C Earnhardt

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started. Catherine Earnhardt, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the founder of a company called Mason Lane Art Advisory based in New York City, although you have offices or affiliates around the country, and you're engaged in art advisory services. And I— we first met in our interview with Authority Magazine, and I'm really pleased to have you on the podcast today.

I'm so grateful for it all, and thank you so much for having me. You're welcome.

In the interview, I learned that, like my career, your career went in different ways. Tell us, give us a little bit about your backstory.

Sure. I've always been interested in art but not as much the academic side that a lot of my art-curious colleagues were interested in. I really have always gravitated towards the business side, and I was an art history and econ major in college and then pursued that angle of entering the art world from, or through, a lens of the business world. And when I graduated from getting my master's in art business, I pursued different positions where I could experiment with how the art business ran, how the art market worked, and be adjacent to the selling and buying of art. And so I worked in MoMA, or at the Museum of Modern Art, in the management office and got a really keen look at how that museum ran. And it's a huge museum and it's technically nonprofit, but it's a unique model. And I was there during 2008, during a recession when they were going into crisis management mode. And it was such a lesson in how to handle a gigantic arts institution. And I was also a liaison with the board of trustees who at MoMA are really high-end socialites and financial leaders. And so liaising with them and seeing the institution at this Pivotal moment really got me even more interested in how art businesses ran, and that just parlayed into a career step at Christie's where I was in a little hub called CFAS, and it was very entrepreneurial. We had little oversight from Christie's, but a lot of their financial backing. So it gave me a lot of freedom to figure out our marketing and our messaging and how we were going to get clients and grow this little entrepreneurial area of Christie's. And ultimately I went over to an art advisory firm where I cultivated more clients and led up their appraisal and advisory practice, mostly for insurance appraisals around the country, and decided in the end to start my own business. I just wanted to buy and sell art and put together all of these different elements that I learned about client cultivation and being adjacent to the art and marketing, which I love, into my own package. There's no playbook for how to be an art advisor. There's no license. You can just really call yourself an art advisor and Some people thought that it was so silly when I first made that move, and I don't really care what they think. I would say the joke's on them, but I don't really care who's— I don't think anyone really is looking back at that moment when I noticed I was being a little bit scrutinized or felt like I was being scrutinized because I made my own path. It really feels good to have carved a path in a niche that has no rulebook and where I truly built a brand for myself that other people want to be a part of and that I'm proud of 10 years later.

Wow. So what exactly is an art advisor? I don't think I know.

An art advisor? That's a great question. And I'm about to launch something called Art Advisory School where I educate people on what this niche market is because so many people don't know. An art advisor is someone who helps people buy art for their home or office or commercial space. And there are different types. We are an independent art advisor, meaning that I don't represent artists, I don't have my own inventory, and I don't have any contractual relationships with galleries. So I work completely on behalf of my clients and service them objectively in sourcing art from around the world that really speaks to their individual taste and aligns with their art collecting goals.

Oh boy, this leads me to so many questions. First of all, This is— learning how to listen has got to be critical to what you do. Yes. How did you learn how to listen in a way that makes you effective as an art advisor?

I learned how to listen when I was in my mid-20s at Christie's, and my boss had a lot of faith in me and sent me down to Art Basel Miami Beach to figure it out and see if I could meet clients and secure more clients for our business. And our clients at the time were the biggest art collectors in the world. And I was wearing shoes from Nordstrom Rack discount and had no idea how to do this. And I learned that in order to secure business, I needed to get people to like me. And in order to get people to like me, I needed to authentically connect with them. I wasn't going to try and be who they wanted me to be, and I wasn't going to try and adapt to anything around me. Instead, I was just genuinely looking for connections, and they could have to do— they could relate to the art world or not. For example, if I spoke to someone and I said I managed to sneak myself into a party, which I did many times, I would always say that I was a guest of so-and-so collector and they would let me in. Then I would just start chatting with people and I would say, how do you like the, the chicken or something like that? Or how's your meal? And they would say, oh, it's good. I said, there are so many good meals around here. What restaurants have you tried? And I would become good at asking questions that just enabled conversation. They were not yes or no questions and they fostered connection. Oh, I went to that restaurant last night. What did you get? Or I've never had that. What is it like? And Through that, I really learned how to connect with people, and I firmly believe that fueled my ability to get clients at Christie's, at Gergion's, where I worked next, and ultimately at my own art advisory firm. And when I started my own art advisory firm, I'd never been an art advisor before, but I knew that I had the skills to cultivate clients, and I knew the art world exceptionally well. If I had the skills to get clients, then I could service them. But most people that I knew that were art advisors, really their biggest struggle was that they were so entrenched in the art world and had no idea how to interact with people and actually make them paying clients and fuel that relationship. No, like, that's how I learned how to listen, I think.

Know and trust. The most critical skills of sales and the most critical skills in leadership.

Yes. And I would add authenticity to that too, because—

and that, and also some vulnerability, because if you can be, if you're strong enough in Tai Chi, I'm a martial artist in Tai Chi. The paradox, there are two paradoxes. The softer you are, the stronger you are. The more vulnerable you are, the more powerful you are. Soft to be strong, vulnerable to be powerful.

I love that.

You can embrace that paradox that allows you to be authentic and vulnerable, but soft and strong. So you can't be manipulated and you can't be taken advantage of.

Yes. I love that. And I also made a point of realizing that putting all of those lessons to work or putting all those elements together results in being more satisfied at the end of the day. You actually do make friends. And I, I'm careful about crossing my personal life with my professional life, but I felt connected, and I still do feel very connected to the clients that I've serviced and that continue to refer me to their friends. And that just makes all of the work more satisfying because I have real relationships with these people, and I care about their families and their kids and their homes and all of that.

So You've been doing this for 10 years. You've actually expanded this business in a unique way. You implied in our interview that, uh, you heard a podcast about licensing and affiliate and sort of like that. And it's— is that the kind of model you adopted? So you've got offices around the country and you've got like-minded women who are— you're all associated in some way but not really the same business.

Yes. So I have business partners in 3 other cities right now, 4 including New York. And the way that started was I listened to a podcast about Don Miller's StoryBrand. I'm not sure if you're familiar. And he has these— yeah, he has a philosophy about marketing called Building a StoryBrand, and he's got books. I got it. Yes. And he has these StoryBrand consultants who essentially become licensed in this process that he has created, and then they are story brand consultants. And that planted the seed of having Mason Lane advisors elsewhere. And I tried it with my, with a good friend of mine whom I went to grad school with in Toronto, and it worked out so well because she was a friend and I didn't want her to be an employee. And I also felt strange handing over my business for her to just start. So she purchased a license from me to operate under my name and launch Mason Lane Canada. And I trained her on how the business works and the process and the brand and all of the internal elements that I feel are so crucial in running a business. I call them the backstage work, our database, our financial systems, the exact way that we go through every client project to ensure that we know where we are and our clients know what step we're at in the process. And I then own a portion of her business, so I get a percentage of that revenue every year. And then that model worked out really successfully such that we were collaborative, but New York was really the headquarters and I very organically found two other business partners over the next 5, 7 years. And now we're in LA, Minneapolis, Toronto, New York, and we may add another city in the near future.

Wow. Huh. That sounds really cool.

It's great too because it's collaborative. These people don't work for me, but they are part of the bigger brand. Right. And so we, make decisions together. And in a field where so many people are solopreneurs, it truly benefits our clients because with more eyes on very different markets, we're better positioned to know more about the art world, to have better solutions to problems that come up with client relationships or vendor relationships or whatever inevitable bumps along the way.

I'm curious about that. Client problems, vendor problems. Describe for me sort of the kinds of problems you face.

Sure. I had a client situation where, hmm, I'm trying to think of which one to share, but I had a client situation where the client wanted a commission, which is where the artist has agreed to make a piece specifically for the client. And the artist— we did a studio visit. There was such a beautiful connection between the clients, this couple, and the artist then agreed to do this commission and produced a rendering of what the piece would look like. And the client said some feedback, we went back and forth to get the perfect rendering. Then 3 months later, the painting is done and it doesn't look like the rendering. This is a $25,000 painting. So I don't know who's right, but that's an example of a problem that comes up. And I truly respect this artist. I admire his work and his artistic liberties that he took. And I also understand that my clients did not get what they expected. And so that was a situation where there were a lot of conversations between our team on how this can be handled, how we can— what mistakes were made along the way, what did we not see, and how can we prevent it from happening in the future.

How do you resolve problems?

I, I was going to say, if you're curious about the outcomes, yeah, I'm really proud that throughout the process I ensured that everyone felt heard and nothing was combative, and it could have been a situation that was very different. And I knew the gallerist that was facilitating this on the other end. I've known her for a long time. As long as we were prefacing each conversation with, I understand your point, and here is the client's, and let's work towards a resolution, the energy was very positive throughout those difficult conversations. Ultimately, what happened is I bought the painting. For slightly less than $25,000, and I resold it to another client, which I never do. I don't have my own inventory, as I said before, but I truly believe two things. One, the client who ordered the commission was not in the wrong. They just weren't. And I also love this artist and think that he created a work that was true to his vision, and that was absolutely beautiful and really marketable. And I had 6 other clients who would have loved that work. So I bought it. I took a risk and I bought it. And I could have done a few— done this a few different ways that all felt riskier to me, frankly, than owning it for a short period of time and reselling it on my— at my pace with the right client. Otherwise, I would have felt rushed if I owned half of it. And was at the will of another owner. So that's how it got resolved.

What'd you do with the client? How'd you solve the client's problem?

The client is now my client for life. They're so grateful that I got them out of this $25,000 mistake, and we're working on sourcing additional works for their home.

Wow. Amazing. And the secret is listening.

Yeah, listening. And a business coach once told me that the best way to think about your clients is to think of them as lifers, not just clients that pay a certain amount and you deliver a certain scope of work, although that's an important conversation to have. But I'm in this for the long run, and I want my clients to know that. And the best, best business development move I have is word-of-mouth marketing. So if I can do anything to help my clients share my name with others, then that fuels my pipeline indefinitely.

And your integrity is everything.

Exactly.

So when I teach people, or actually when I get engaged to help people through a difficult conversation, just exactly what you're talking about, usually with more money involved, but it's the same idea.

Sure.

I tell people, this is an exercise in listening, not in talking, and we're going to spend the next 2 hours just listening. And here's how we're gonna listen. And then I teach them how to listen to emotions rather than to words. And so when you listen to and reflect somebody's feelings, they feel deeply validated and heard, and the conflict just deescalates like immediately. And that's when you can engage in problem solving or negotiation or whatever it is you need to talk. But the secret—

so powerful.

It's listening to emotions. The process is called affect labeling. It's been— there are brain scanning studies that show what happens when you engage in this process that are quite powerful. And it's perfect for what you're— for the situation you were talking about. And it sounds like you may not have listened to emotions, but you listened enough to be able to keep people calm and solution.

This was an emotional situation, and I didn't convey some of that emotion behind it, but I I believe that was part of it. And what you're saying is so powerful, actually. Growing up, I never felt heard. And most people don't. For a number of reasons. What's that?

Most people don't.

Yeah. For a number of reasons that my therapist knows all about. But I developed a vocal cord problem at some point in my life, and many doctors could not figure out what the issue was. And someone said, I think that you've developed this reaction to tense up your throat. In a way that makes you lose your voice. And it's all linked. And ever since I heard that, I've been much more attuned to my own feelings and wants and that of other people's. And I do think that truly enables me to do my job. I'm a matchmaker in my business. I matchmake clients with art. And it's not just a materialistic— it's not actually at all a materialistic match. It's connecting clients with a, a part of them that may be difficult to access, with an artist's very intimate expression of something that they're feeling. And having these two people who will never otherwise meet, probably, connect over this inner feeling is what makes an artwork feel interesting and timeless and worth whatever price it is.

That's Exactly correct. Art is all about emotion.

Yes.

It evokes emotion. People would not be interested in art unless it evoked an emotional response. Most people don't have a high degree of emotional competency, but they do experience, uh, they do experience something. And what you're doing is providing a permanent emotional experience. There's an emotional experience of going through the process of acquiring a piece of art, and that's very emotional. But now they have the artwork in their home, and every time they look at it, they have an emotional experience.

Yes.

So it's very profound.

It is. One of the best sources of business for us is designers, interior designers. They refer business to us and they want to source art. They try to, and they come to me and say, I've shown this client 50 different things and they don't like any of it. Maybe you can help. And immediately I'm able to show them 2 pieces of art that they wanna buy. And it's because designers are not focused on that story behind the artwork that relates to the emotional experience. They're very tuned into their world of functional and beautiful design, but it's a different way of selling. It's a different mindset.

Right.

And they can talk about how beautiful the art looks in the space. But people don't buy art because it just looks pretty. They buy art because they feel connected to the story. So I could show— I guarantee we've never done this A/B test, but I guarantee you if I showed a client the same artworks that the designer had shown that were rejected, I'd be able to sell them.

Of course, because you're able to show the story.

Sure.

And evoke the emotional experience.

Exactly.

This is a skill. I hope you're teaching this skill to your daughters.

I'll try to. I'm also— I am trying to write a book, and it's about this kind of the skill or building the muscle to sell within the world of luxury aesthetics, as I'm calling it, or high-end fashion, jewelry design.

Think about it. You've got ultra-wealthy people. They're the ones who are in this world, they've got every— they've got every material thing they can possibly have.

What is—

what's the one thing they don't have that they— that's infinite, that they could want more of? One, emotional experience. Two, feeling heard and validated. And three, experiencing something that gives them hopefully joy and pleasure that does not consume them like an addiction.

And that's what I think that the best art collections are a little bit autobiographical and a little bit aspirational. And I mean that they're showcasing different parts of who you are and they're showing different parts of who you want to be. A lot of people are buying art by more diverse artists these days and diverse in every sense, emerging to established artists of all, um, colors or cultural backgrounds, artists producing different types of art with mixed media and new ways of using materials. And I attribute that to people building or getting in touch with the different parts of themselves that really touches. It's boring to have pretty art on every wall. It's much more interesting to have art that showcases this kind of person that you wanna be and person that you, or interest that you wanna learn more about, or aspirational concept that does represent where you want to go as a person. It's almost— it's a different version of don't dress for the job you have, dress for the job you want.

Exactly. Sometimes I ask my guests, what is it that gets you up in the morning, makes you go to work? I don't need to ask you that question. You are so full of passion for what you do. It blows out of you, the energy you have. And I'm thrilled that you have, you've recognized and obviously implemented some very powerful listening skills. It's very rare, extremely rare to find people like yourself who have understood the power of listening and is really what defines your success. I can just hear the conversation when you first meet a new client and whether you're meeting in person or virtually, you're sitting there and starting, you just asking a couple open-ended questions to get a feeling of where are these people at, where are they in their lives, what's important to them, what are their goals, what do they say their goals are, but what are their real goals, right?

Yes.

And then listening to what is the— what's the emotional experience they're having now, is— and where are they on their journey in art. Is this their first piece? They have a lot of art, they have very little art, and what What emotional experience are they looking for in all of this? And I think you have— you, you probably don't— aren't— you may be just as analytical as I am, but if you're not, you're intuiting this and getting these, getting the answers to these questions in one way or another that allows you to guide them to places where they're going to get the experience they're looking for.

Yes, thank you, that means a lot. I appreciate it.

Yeah, really cool. So where do you go from here?

When you mentioned what gets you up in the morning, and then you knew that I do have this energy, what came to mind for me is also just the diversity in, in potential of where I can go with what I've built. That really excites me. I was actually explaining this to my daughter the other day when we were talking about different career paths, and I said, pick a path where you have opportunities to change and pivot and do something new to keep it interesting, right? You don't have to, but it's nice to have that optionality. And so as an art advisor, I was really happy selling art to my clients, and that felt satisfying. But being able to build the business and see if it could work in one city and then two and three cities has been tremendously satisfying. As I mentioned, I'm experimenting with the concept of Art Advisory School, and I mentor other art advisors, and I really do believe it's going to be a growing field because galleries are shutting down and the gallery model is dated and real estate is so expensive and there's no school for this. And I'm not intending on launching a brick-and-mortar school, but To have some sort of training ground for people who are interested in learning more about this field and mentoring others feels not only satisfying and educational to me, because you learn by teaching, but also seems to have the potential to change the direction of our field that has the illusion of being snooty and exclusive. I really believe in collaboration, transparency, and approachability. And if I can teach anyone else entering this field what I know, I'm hopeful that they'll help lift someone else up. I happen to work in a business with all women. I'm not opposed to ever hiring a man. It just happens to be that way. But it really is a common kind of growing interest for women to lift women. And I just hope that in the art world, people can lift people in a way that hasn't really existed in the past. So I'm hopeful that kind of changed attitude of the market can fuel me and fuel other ideas between myself and my colleagues and other people in the industry that just helps it grow in innovative ways that supports artists, that supports this understanding of ourselves and culture and grows a field that I think really does help foster creativity and understanding amongst people.

People. Amazing. One more question, I'll let you go.

Anything.

Yes, Katherine, tell us one thing about yourself that we would never know about unless you revealed it to us.

Wow, that's a good question. I think the most relevant thing that no one knows about me who's listening to this podcast, is that 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I was a completely different person. I feel when I'm speaking on this podcast that my ideas are so clear and my passion is really easily conveyed, and I have this inherent energy, and I do feel that way. But years ago I didn't at all, and it's taken a lot of work to do that. As I said, I, I literally had a chronic vocal cord issue because I felt like I had no voice. I didn't know what I wanted. I was doing what other people expected of me, and that's caused a lot of regret in my life, which I've transformed into learnings. And so I think that's important to note, that if you're not at the place now where you want to be in your career, You can change.

That's right. I'm the plaintiff's exhibit number one.

Yeah, you can change and just take the lessons from whatever experience you're having and channel that into something that's more fulfilling for you.

I'll tell you that you have a clarity, an energy, a clear energy. There's a clarity that comes across with you, like a very clear, pure energy that is actually astonishing and very rare.

Thank you.

Whatever you've done for yourself. I know that in our interview you talked about your background a little bit, and like many of us, it was not easy. Sure, mine wasn't either. And but you have obviously taken that and used it to transform yourself into a very powerful being. So thanks for being on the show. It's been a real honor.

It's an honor for me. I truly appreciate it. I'm a big fan, and thank you so much for your time.

You're welcome. Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you Please share this episode on social media. Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.