271 - Discovering Self-Awareness: The Key to Intentional Leadership and Personal Growth with The Real Estate Investment Network's Patrick Francey

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started. Patrick, Francie, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the CEO of a company called REIN Canada, which can be found at rein— R-E-I-N— canada.com. You also own a number of businesses and you have a podcast called The Millionaires. Help me with that.

The Everyday Millionaire.

There you go. TheEverydayMillionaire.ca. Well, welcome to the show. Let's start off. Just give us a little bit about your backstory.

A little bit about me. I, you know, I'm at the point in the life I've been in business for 40+ years. One of my original businesses just celebrated its 40th birthday a couple of months ago. It's located in a different province here in Canada, in Alberta, specifically in Edmonton. And that was one of my first, I say, real forays into entrepreneurship. But certainly that's my background in terms of that. So I'm a business owner. I bought the company, the Real Estate Investment Network, REIN Canada, which is a national organization that teaches entrepreneurs and people how to treat their real estate investing like a business, but to actually grow a real estate portfolio, invest in real estate. We don't sell real estate, by the way. We are an education-based business in terms of how to invest in real estate the right way, different strategies, different practices based on the economic fundamentals that drive real estate. So in other words, where's real estate going? Not so much where it's been. And if you can't invest in your own backyard, then go where your money works best for you. So in other words, adage of, I want to make my money work harder for me than I work for my money. And in the world of real estate, it may not always be in your backyard where people are comfortable. So that's the Cole's Notes of it. I live just outside of Vancouver, Canada. And born and raised in Alberta, in Edmonton. And we live on 5 beautiful acres in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia with some cows, a couple horses, 2 big Bernese Mountain Dogs. I'm a grandfather, father, husband, 30-plus years.

Good for you. I live on 10 acres just south of Yosemite National Park. We just got a new dog. So we inherited, we were, we were, I wouldn't say inherited. We were, we took a really tired Border Collie who was a cow dog from our cattle rancher friends that they, she needed a new home. So we adopted her 2 Sundays ago.

Beautiful. Smart dogs. Smart dogs. They're working dogs. Yep.

I got 2 of 'em now. I got a 3-year-old and a 9-year-old.

Yeah.

And 2 cats.

Fantastic. Love it.

So you've been at this for a long time. You're still working. You sound like you're probably about my age in your 70s. I'm 73. What is it that gets you energized and gets you up in the morning? To go to work?

Over the years, I think what has evolved for me and where I've come to in my own life is understanding, number one, what are my core values? Number two, what is my purpose? And certainly I've come to that conclusion, which is making a difference in other people's lives, being a contribution, supporting others in their success. And that includes, by the way, not just my existing team within my businesses, but even within the Real Estate Investment Network. We've been literally had a couple hundred thousand people come through our programs. As much as it's a kind of a group coaching program. I've done lots of one-on-one, one-on-many. I love speaking from stage and supporting others. So for me, what gets me fired up is where am I being a contribution? Where can I make a difference in other people's lives? My fundamental tagline for me is being your greatest self and living your best life by design, because I think it has to all be intentional. To be our best selves, we have to be reflective. We have to do it intentionally. And so that's really what lights me up and gets me out of bed every morning and that it gets me excited. That's really it.

Good for you. I think we, we share similar values in that regard. I, my, I'm a lawyer turned peacemaker and I was a trial lawyer for 22 years before I went back to school, got my master's degree in peacemaking and conflict studies, left the practice of law to become an arbitrator and mediator. And I still do those things, but today I teach people how to listen each other into existence.

Hmm. And it's nice.

Same idea that it's service to others.

Isn't the phrase though that we— are you referred to as a recovering lawyer still, or sometimes?

But most of the time I'm not a recovering lawyer. I'm a member, active member of the California State Bar. I teach graduate school at the Caruso School of Law at Pepperdine University. I just don't practice law other than a few friends that I help out every now and then. But my business is in serving others by teaching them how to stop fights and arguments forever in their life.

Beautiful. Love that.

Just like you. That's what gets me going in the morning thinking about who do I get to help today?

Cool.

So how did you evolve into this space? Because I know it took me, it's taken me, it took me 50 years before I was ready to start evolving. What about you?

Yeah, I think that what starts our journey of self-discovery of unpacking who we really are and being true to ourselves, often it's driven by some confusion, maybe a dramatic moment in life, questioning our joy, our happiness, our fulfillment. And I think I started on that journey at about 35 years old. And that was really driven by my wife, Stephanie, who is a world-class Olympic and mental performance coach. We call them a— we call her— she's a coach. She's really— but she looks at the mental performance. She's not a psychologist or a psychiatrist. It was really or work with a number of athletes, because that's part of my background as well, is working with athletes. And so we started to see that back then is we were having success, but there was still that lack of real happiness or joy or the feeling of what am I accomplishing? And we get to that. Perhaps I got to that question of why am I really here? And that took me on the journey of self-discovery and then realizing that I wanted to be really good in business. I wanted to be a great leader. And I, in spite of what some people believe, I think leadership for me has been a study. So in other words, I don't have not really, I've come to the conclusion that there is no real natural leaders. I think there are some individuals who are wired to be great leaders for different reasons. I discovered for me that I wanted to be a great leader, but I needed to study the game of leadership and not just outside of myself, but really who am I? How do I define myself as a leader? So that took me on that journey of self-discovery. And over the years I've learned hacks and I've learned different ways to show up and really defining who I want to be, how I want to be. And aside from the operational side of business and the execution of getting things done, who am I in the capacity of doing that? Who am I with my teams? Part of that and how I measure it is I look at some of my team. I've been, like I say, I've got a couple businesses that the Real Estate Investment Network is 30+ years old. One of my other businesses, 40+ years old. Stephanie and I have been coaching for 25+ plus years and part of our team. I've got members of my team that have been with me 30 years and 33 years and 22 years. And so to me, it's a statement of working conditions. Have I created the right environment? Have I created the right culture? Am I doing that to support not just the success of the business, but the success of the team within the business? And I'd gotten pretty good at that, but that was through my own evolution of my self.

So when you talk about evolution of yourself, let's unpack that a little more. What exactly are we talking about?

I think there was a place in my life, Doug, where in reality I was really truly brought up in the wrong side of the tracks. Now, that's not to say that I had a shitty life. I didn't. I actually had loving parents and they did the best they could. And I certainly didn't suffer from any real trauma, like abusive parents or anything like that. It's just that it was 4 kids. In a very lower income couple of parents. Both my parents worked. We were raised in a 1,000 square foot house with one bathroom with 6 people. And it was pretty, I guess it was a good life, but it certainly wasn't extravagant. And so for me, it was a little bit of rough, a little bit of survival. I was the guy that if you cut me off in traffic, it was okay. Pull over, let's fight. It was like, it was a really interesting when I reflect on it. And fortunately, I came across some people who said, what's up with that? Where is that anger? Why are you so rough around the edges? And when Stephanie, my wife, met me and she was so eloquent and so refined and she used to refer to me as her favorite Neanderthal. And so when we were early on in our relationship, when we talk about it years later is what did she ever saw, see in me and really she she always just saw my potential. And that's when we came across, or when I came across the quote that a diamond is just a chunk of coal put under a great deal of pressure. And she did that. She put me under a great deal of pressure. And I started on my journey going, holy cow, this isn't who I am. This is who I'm choosing to be. And there was a defining moment, Doug, and I know this is a bit of a long story, but the defining moment for me was when I was doing something, saying something. Stephanie would look at me and she'd go, why do you respond that way? Why are you so curt and abrupt? What is going on with you? And I go, I don't know what you're talking about. It's just the way I am. And she had said that to me a number of times and my response was always the same. It's just the way I am. And she looked at me one day and she goes, that's a choice, right? And it was if she hit me in the middle of the head with a hammer. It was like, what? Oh, I never thought of that. It never occurred to me that I could choose to be different. And when I share that part of the story is I have to laugh at myself, but that's just also, I guess, why she referred to me as her favorite Neanderthal. So there was that evolution, that pivotal moment, that fork in the road where I realized that I could actually choose who I wanted to be, who and how I showed up, the journey that I would take and how I would take on that journey. So today we hear all or see all those memes that it's not the goal, it's who you have to become to achieve the goal. And it's about the journey and all of those things. That was all really new to me back in those days at that time in my life. And so it took me a long time to figure that out and really start to say, if I want to achieve this, who does that person sound like? Who do they look like? How do they show up? How are they interacting with others?? And so when I started asking myself those questions, then it really became clear to me that I had to start making different choices. Yeah.

I think what you're saying, there's a deep wisdom in what you're saying about we choose to be who we are. I'm the co-founder of a project called the Prison of Peace Project. And we started, my colleague Laurel Kaufer and I started this project teaching 15 women who are serving life sentences in the largest, most violent women's prison in the world. How to become peacemakers to stop prison violence. That is exactly the question we pose to them. You choose to be who you are. Now you're identifying as peacemakers, not violent offenders. What does that mean to you? And what skills are you willing to learn to change, to grow in order to stop prison violence?

Yeah.

And today we're in 15 California prisons, 14 prisons in Greece, 3 prisons in Italy, and we're being all the Connecticut prison system.

Rolling out. That's impressive. I love that. Yeah. And it really is in the world of when you get into that space of supporting and helping others, it really is that kind of closed mindset that because we're not there, it's sometimes hard to relate to, but you start to see it. And often the question then becomes, it's just the way I am. And the follow-up question to that has to be, how's that working for you?

Exactly.

Are you excited about your life? Are you lit up? Or why are you getting out of bed in the morning? And how much of your life do you hate? And, and we did a lot, I did a lot of work with a guy by the name of Dr. John Demartini many years ago. And he was really one of those coaches that I had that was also part of my own journey of study. And he used to say, and I don't know that it's his quote, but it's where I heard it, which was, the quality of your life is a reflection of the quality of the questions you ask yourself. And it took me a long time to even figure out what that meant. And over time, I've started to really consider when I'm up against something or when I'm trying to figure something else out, I'm looking at it and saying, okay, what question do I need to be asking? And I investigate that more often now than I ever have in the past. And that usually leads me to what I need to know to make a decision or the path that I want to take.

So if you were to talk to a younger leader today, say somebody's up and coming and they're in their 40s and they're moving into a more executive role in their career, and you were to talk them into developing their own self-awareness and through self-development, what would you tell them?

I think the first thing that I would suggest and look at is you just made— they're moving, transitioning, for example, into a role, an executive role of some sort. So the question that I would start to have them consider is how do they see themselves in that role? How are they showing up? Who are they trying to or wanting to influence? What is the difference that they're trying to make within that organization? And start to work backwards from that. There's a, an interesting part of understanding that there's that quote that I shared earlier, which is, it's not the goal, it's who you have to become to achieve the goal. I'm not a big goal setter personally. I look at it and I say, what is the vision I have for myself? So with this particular individual that you're referring to, I would have them consider what is the vision you have for yourself in not just the doingness of that role, but the beingness of the person in that role. And then start to put those changes in today. I'll give you an example. For me is that one of the things that I've learned, it's a bit of a hack, is that when I have something, a vision for myself. So I'm looking, I'm actually only 66 years old, but I look at myself and I say, how do I want to show up at 70 years old? Who am I at 70? And so one of my hacks is I look at some individuals that I admire. Now, I don't have to know them. I don't need— they don't even have to be alive. What I have to look at and say, what is it about that individual that I see? And what are the qualities that I see that I admire? And the qualities that I can then list and say, okay, here's all the qualities, here's the characteristic, here's the way I see that person. And it's just my story. I don't know that person. Necessarily. And I admired those qualities. And I look at that list and I go, okay, this is how I start to evolve and to change. So when I look at myself at 66 years old and I look into who I want to be at 70, somebody I admire, the qualities of that person is RFK Jr. And I look at him at almost 70 years old and I go, he's a cool cat. He's physically in shape, which me, I'm very physical. It's part of who I am. I train and. I do all the things to stay healthy. I try and be well-spoken. I try and be a leader and a very mindful leader. And he's that individual. So now when I'm going through my process of really evolving and reflecting on how I'm showing up, I'm asking myself, or maybe when I feel some resistance where I don't want to go to the gym or I don't want to eat, I'm going, okay, what would RFK Jr. do? He'd show up, right? And so that's part of my own hack. It's just a mental hack that I use. But ultimately, so back to your individual that's going on to be an executive, I'd go, who do you admire that has a similar or greater role? And what are the qualities that they have that you want to embrace? And these are changes that you want to make today, not when you get there.

Yeah, that's really good. So as you reflect on all of this, Patrick, What is it that's unique about you that you bring to the table that has given you the success you've had in your life?

That's, oh gosh, that's a big question, but I think it's a tough question. But when I look at some of the things and some of the skills or the competencies or whatever we might want to call it, some realizations. Number one, I'm pretty self-aware. At least I like to believe I am. I'm always open to hearing and seeing my blind spots and discovering them. I'm always looking for them, but ultimately I think for me is that the realization is that I don't need to be the CEO. As a matter of fact, I sometimes look at it and I go, I'm not a great CEO. What I am is a great person supporting a CEO. So, my role as CEOs, I'm CEO of 3 different businesses, but I'm also supporting other businesses. So, in other words, my role, I like to play a second in command. I love somebody who says, okay, there's the mountain we're going to climb. I'm going to lead the way up the mountain. I like to often be the guy that's behind them, kind of hand on their back or their butt, pushing them up that mountain and making sure that they're not falling backwards and not entering into territory that they can't go alone. So I like to play that supportive role a lot. I know that about myself. So I think that's one of those qualities and those skill sets that I have is I don't need to be the front-facing. I'm on stage often with many, and I don't need to I don't need to be the lead on that stage. If I'm having, if I'm sharing in that, I'm very happy to pass the baton to somebody else. So there's those parts of it. I can take fairly complicated issues and break them down into bite-sized parts to lead the team in that regard. And I'm also very good at creating culture and environment that drives success because it's something that I've developed as a skill because I had a high interest in it. And so with my own teams in 3 different businesses that I currently own, that's a big part of what I do is really create culture and environment.

I suspect that you are a good listener. Tell me about how you learned how to listen.

Oh, I think that came through a time of study and I read a lot. And so I listened to, and of course the old phrase of Stephen Covey, seek first to understand and then to be understood. And I think I learned to listen the hard way, which is that I made assumptions too early and realized that if I would've listened, I would've heard more. Secondly, in the context of what I do on the podcast, what I've come to realize is that I'm very good at listening and then being able to connect dots. So part of it is just training. I think really understanding that there's a part of us when we go through, and I'll speak for men, but I think probably it's with women as well. You're in that group of people and everybody's sharing stories and somebody says, oh, we were just in Hawaii. And before they're even finished the story, somebody else is already formulating the story about when they were in Hawaii. And then somebody else is, oh yeah, this is what we did when we were in Hawaii. And what I've learned over the years for my own is to listen, is let somebody tell their story. And I could have been to Hawaii 7 times and I may not even make a comment. It's understanding that somebody is sharing that story and within that, stay present to the story and let it go. I don't need to one-up. I don't need to share that, oh, I did the same thing. There's no part of that. And I think that just comes from awareness and honoring the people that you're speaking with.

Yeah, I agree. We see so many people in so many conversations say, me too. And they're really not listening. They are, they think that they're relating by sharing their story, which is similar to the speaker's story, but really all they're doing is talking about themselves. And that's interesting because one of the things that I teach people to do is how to not do that, how to listen the speaker into existence. Instance, if somebody's talking about Hawaii, I'll say, you can ask questions like, for example, tell me what beaches you went to and were you able to get into the water? And what was it like for you to walk on the beach at sunset in Hawaii and watch the sunset below the ocean?

Mm-hmm.

And how did that make you curious? How did that make you feel?

Yeah. Be curious. Yeah.

And, and then when they start talking about their feelings, then you reflect, oh, so it was really precious and tranquil and beautiful and peaceful and almost spiritual moment for you. Yeah, that's when people start feeling like they've been heard. And that really is— that's the foundational skill of life, I think, is making people feel like they've really been heard and understood from their frame of reference.

I'll share a quick story in that regard with you that was also a big lesson for me. This was a few years ago now, I think 6 or 7 years ago now, but I was invited to be a keynote at one of the Google executive retreats, and there was 45 of the top Google executives that were locked down for 3 days, I think they were. And they invited me to come do a keynote and break bread with them and have dinner. So I went, sure, that's cool. I'd never done that kind of a gig before. So I walked in the door. So the first kind of realization I had was I think the oldest Google executive, and this was like, kind of their main, I don't know if it was C-suite quite, but it was like, it was their, some of their main guys in Canada and the US, by the way. And the oldest one I think was probably 32. It was like, okay, I'm really the OG on this. And anyways, I did my keynote and it was really well received. And we talked about culture and we talked about all those things, but I then sat down and they were tables of 8 and So I was at a table with young, this young group of, this group of executives having a conversation. And I intentionally was being curious to them. But you know what my observation with that whole dinner, Doug, is that regardless of how curious I was, every single one of them was able to spin it around and make it about me. And it was very interesting that, wow. They were— I was like, wow, I could not like— and we had a great conversation, by the way, and I was able to pull some stuff out of them, not the least of which was so interesting me was their interview process and the fact that they went through 5 and sometimes 7 interviews to get the role that they got, even as a promotion within Google. I don't know if that's all changed or not, but that was very much at that time. So I was able to have conversation with them, but inevitably they brought it back around and it was about me. And that happened.. And it was, I don't think they were doing the same thing. I was very conscious of it. I was being very intentional about it that I didn't want to be the center of attention. I wanted to learn. And it was just very interesting. So I'm, I, I don't know if that's part of their training or it's just part of their hiring process that they end up with those kind of curious executives. But it was very interesting.

It's so interesting because it's so unusual to run into people and to run into a group of 40 or 45 people all who all have that ability is it's like unheard of.

It was, this was, this is my table. I don't know if it was all 45. It was just my table for dinner. So there was 7 others, but besides yourself.

I would suspect that they probably all share that skill at that level. And the reason I think it's so interesting is because I don't know what your experience is, but my experience is either in social functions or doing keynotes or speaking and meeting people. I'm all about listening to other people and validating them, and I rarely have anybody ask about me. It's extremely rare when that happens, and I'm amused by it, and I'm perfectly happy with it.

Yeah.

But, but I'm always paying attention to how close people are listening and focusing and being present in the moment with where they're at and with where I'm at. Mm-hmm. And your story is really quite remarkable because It's so unusual, at least in my experience.

I would agree with that. That's— but again, as I share that story with you, it's because it stood out.

That's right.

I was really impressed, number one, with just how smart these young people were, like off the charts smart, right? And just how interesting they were and how interested they were. So it was a very memorable experience.

Google has been extremely successful, and I think part of the reason is that the— they've done an extremely good job in hiring well-rounded top people to run the various aspects of their business. And I think that's a key function of leadership, is to be able to listen to your teams and really pay attention to who they are, really validate the teams, and not just listen to gain information for your own agenda.. And I think that's the difference between a really, a good leader and a great leader. It's so interesting, Covey's book that you mentioned earlier, I think it's chapter 7, 26 pages devoted to listening. Not once in that chapter did he tell you how to listen. It was all, it was all about the what and the why, but not about the how.

Yes.

And what I've learned over the years is the how is more important than anything else. And there are skills, listening skills that you can learn. That can dramatically improve the way that you relate to other people. But they're counterintuitive and counter-normative. They, they go fly in the face of everything we think we know about listening, but they're extraordinarily effective. Pretty interesting. So where do you see your, where do you see yourself? You're 66 now, a little bit younger than I am. Where do, and we, you're always thinking forward. Where do you see yourself at my age at 73, say 7 years from now?

I think that I don't see much difference in terms of what I'm doing. It might look a little bit different in terms of how I deliver on what I'm doing. But again, as long as I'm making a difference and being a contribution, that's what gets me out of bed, like I say, and what I love to do. And driving income along the way. And that's all part of just a business. That's part of making a business work. The vision I have, we're living right now. We're living the vision for our life. I was once given this definition of success. I don't often ask my guests on my podcast, what's their definition of success? And just because people have different versions of it, and then what is success? Is it how much money you've got in your bank account? What exactly is it? But one guest, for some reason, it was a really interesting conversation, and I asked him the question. I said, so how is it that you define success? And he goes, I define success this way. Am I living into the vision I have for my life? Am I living that vision? And if I'm living the vision, then I'm successful, whatever that vision is. And I went, that's a cool definition.

Right.

And I adopted it. And so for me, when Stephanie and I are having conversations, when we're looking at what we're doing and how we're doing it, we ask ourselves, are we living into our vision? Is the vision still a good one? Does it apply? Have we gone past it? What is it? Where are we on the the scale or the scope of the vision that we're living. And we're checking in fairly often and we start to realize that we live a great life. And I had 3 sisters. I have 3 sisters, 2 of them passed away. And so from cancer. And so for me, health is a big deal and I pay attention to that. That wasn't what drove it. I've always been that way, but it really is always a wake-up call is first and foremost, I want to be healthy. Secondly, I want to make sure that I'm active in my life because it's very cathartic. And as living on 10 acres or 5 acres, if you've got an acreage or you've got a hobby farm, you're busy, you got stuff to do and there's a lot of physicalness to it. And as much as I occasionally hire people to do certain things, there's a part of it, the physicalness that is very cathartic for me. So when I look into the vision, health is at the top of my list. Financially, we're fine. We're doing what we need to do and that's great. And then I'm not wired to travel these days because I'm just tired of it. I'm tired of airplanes. I'm tired of the lack of service and the delayed flights and the inexperienced people and the overcrowded planes. Like that all sounds like a complaint and it is. I haven't created the wealth that I need to have my own private plane. And perhaps that was an oversight on my part. But ultimately, having said that, my wife is Stephanie. She travels a lot and occasionally I get to be her Sherpa. Carry your bags, and I'm happy to do that. And so for us, it really is a, a great life. I don't know that I have big visions for more. I'm a grandfather now, so hanging out with my grandkids would be a part of my next layer of vision, but that's about it.

Cool. One more question, Patrick, and I'll let you go. What's one thing about yourself that we would never know about unless you revealed it to us?

Oh gosh. There's, I'll tell you, the business that I own in Alberta in Canada is 40 years old and it is a specialty sports shop that caters to skaters, ice skaters, hockey and figure skating. I'm 6'1", 195 pounds and quite fit. When people see me and they ask, what is that business? And I tell them, they look at me physically and they go, oh, Patrick probably was a great hockey player. And they ask me that question, where did you play hockey? And duh. And what people don't know is that I've built that business over 40 years. It is a specialty shop, retail shop that deals with not just minor recreational players, but it also deals with professional hockey players, Olympic and world-class figure skaters. And we do all of that. It's a very specialty shop. I've never played hockey and I barely know how to skate.

There you go.

My wife is amazing at it, but I, on the other hand, am not. She worked for a couple of NHL teams as their skating coach many years ago. Wow. And that's how actually we met. Within the industry. So people would not have figured that out.

That's a great, that's a great story. You wouldn't know unless I told you, but I'm a jazz violinist.

Ah, there you go. So jazz violinist, no less.

Yeah, exactly. Patrick, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a really great conversation.

Appreciate being on the show, and, uh, thanks for the conversation. It's been great, Doug.

Absolutely. Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.