277 - The Impact of Certification on Diverse Businesses with Certify My Company's Heather Cox

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started. Eva Cox, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the co-founder and president of a company called Certify My Company, which can be found at certifymycompany.com, and you are located in the very cool city Henderson, Nevada, right outside of Las Vegas. Welcome to the show.

Thank you. I first thought you meant cool like it's a hip and cool place, which it is. It's just not temperature cool.

Yeah, exactly. It's only 110 degrees there.

Only 110, right?

Hey, it's cool.

Cool.

I'll tell you what, let's start with a little bit of your backstory. You went to school. Now I know you went to the University of Austin and studied Spanish, but it looks like before that you went to school overseas somewhere.

I did. So after high school, my parents were like, you know what? You're not ready for college. We're going to send you to Europe for a year. So now as a parent myself, I'm like, what were my parents thinking to send an 18-year-old who's not ready for college overseas by themselves, right?

As it turns out, my wife's niece is doing exactly that this year. She's going to be studying in Paris for a year before she comes back and starts college.

So I actually didn't get into any of the colleges I wanted to get into after high school. That was also kind of part of it. Let's figure out if I really want to do what I was thinking I wanted to do. And then once I went overseas, I like caught the traveling bug, right? And I really learned Spanish really well. And so when I reapplied for college, my, my then goal was to be, was to do international hospitality. And so I want, so I want to collect languages. And so I started out with Spanish. I grew up in Southern California and I had taken Spanish in high school. And so we're off to Sevilla, which is in southern Spain. I went to a private language school and immersed myself, learned all the bad words and all the good words and everything in between that you have to learn when you're living over there and came home very fluent and went to University of Texas at Austin and kept saying that I went to learn French in France. So not too different than your knees, right? And then, then 9/11 happened. So that international hospitality goal had to go to the wayside for a little bit because I was actually going to Switzerland to go to hospitality school. And they closed the school for that year because of the 9/11 crisis. Yeah. And so I was like, now what?

Now what? So what happens?

So then I ended up going back to California where I grew up, and I was living with my grandmother because my grandfather had passed away. So it was kind of a win for both of us. And I got into California. It's the San Fernando Valley where my mom grew up, but I grew up in Redlands, which is a little town on the base of the mountains. Like it's on the way to all the cool places in Southern California. I know where Redlands, right?

Yeah, I know where Redlands— I grew up down there.

Oh, you did? Yeah. No one knows that.

So I'm like, I went through. Now I got a couple of buddies in Redlands. I live just south of Yosemite National Park.

That's Redding.

But I grew up in San Marino.

So, well, so that's Redding. I'm in Redlands, which is Southern California.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Down in San Bernardino County.

Yes. Yes.

Okay.

Perfect. Yeah. I was in San Bernardino Valley and I was doing sales recruiting and then this one led to this. I ended up overseas myself. Like trying to find myself, which I did a little, but I also found a husband. So then we came back and we were both growing up in Southern California. We ended up back in the Northeast and were there for a little while. And that's how Where Certified, my company, was born. Because when I was pregnant with baby number 1, I was like, what am I going to do as a working mom? I knew I had to work. I just didn't know what it was going to look like exactly. And so I just was asking other working women, other working moms, what it looked like to be a working mom, whether it be full-time, part-time. They were an entrepreneur, if they're an executive. And I loved the entrepreneurs. I just thought they were like the most amazing people. There was just something about them. And it was not nothing I ever thought of I would do myself. But through my conversations, a couple of them would say, oh, my client wants me to get this certification and I just can't get it done. And I'm like, okay, hold on. You're in a business. You can't do an application. Whether the business is $100,000 or $10 million or $100 million, What do you mean you can't do an application? So I went home and I was like looking online what it was about. And my husband's an attorney, so I said to him, hey, what's a certificate of incorporation? He said, in some states. I'm like, oh, okay. So it's not the same in every state. So if you're a busy entrepreneur and you're trying to find your certificate of incorporation, but your state doesn't have one, now you're frustrated and you're like, oh, forget it, I'll deal with it later. And 6 weeks, 6 months, 6 years later, you're not certified. And so I was like, oh, I'll do it for you. No idea what I was doing, but 14 years later, here we are.

So you're helping people get certified so that they can be more attractive to companies that are looking for diverse vendor sources.

Correct. Yes. Yes and no. So we help them, we help entrepreneurs, we support them through the certification process because it is very detail-oriented. It's daunting, it's complicated. And, but yes, because there are the Fortune 1000 and government entities as well. Have identified that a diverse supply chain makes them more money, which is really what it comes down to. So they want to find it, but I can tell you I'm anything I want to tell you. I could tell you I'm a Hispanic-owned business or Asian-owned business without the certification. The certification proves you are who you say you are.

So who does the certification?

There are a plethora of organizations out there. We work with all of them, whether it be state, local government, private sector. It just really depends on what your business does, who you sell to. The first thing we always do is we talk to them about what their goals are with the certification, who they sell to, what their business is, so we can help consult with them on the best certification for them. And I do that for everyone regardless if they hire us or not, because I just think it's such an important thing to know so they don't go after something that's going to be— they're going to be like, oh, I got nothing out of it. That wasn't the right one for your business. That's why you got nothing out of it.

You— how long you been doing this?

14 years. What is—

that's a long time.

What is that?

What is it that gets you up in the morning and keeps you excited about doing this work? Obviously, you have a lot of enthusiasm for it.

I love when the entrepreneurs come back to us so excited about what they were not excited about, they're now excited. And one of my favorite stories is a woman named Jackie, and she had a textile tech company. And when COVID hit, she lost almost everything because these big department stores weren't buying these companies' clothes and these textiles she was making. So she started doing PPE like many companies did, and she got a contract with a large Fortune 100 company. And they said to her, oh, you're a woman-owned, we'd like you to get certified. And she was like, no one cares about that. And they're like, we do. And we care about it so much, we're going to introduce you to our resource. So we want her to help you get certified. So she did. We got her WBENC certified, which is the Women's Business Enterprise National Council. It's the gold standard of private sector certifications. And we also got her the WOSB, which is the federal government's certification. So fast forward the 90 days till she gets her certification. Right before she gets her WOSB, she happened to be— had just gotten married. So she's watching the— what's it called— War Dogs with her new husband. I don't know if you ever saw it, but it's basically about these young guys who sell arms to the government. Okay, it's based on a true story, actually, so it's a fascinating film. So she's, uh, I'm gonna take my WOSB and sell arms to the government. And her husband, as husbands do, right, that's so silly. So then she goes to work, tells her COO, and he's actually maybe not arms, but I'm sure they buy uniforms, clothing, textiles, something. So they go online, $5 million contract with the Marines for practice uniforms. Wow. Now she's, I'm with a martinis on you every time. But also she's so excited now about it that she's telling everybody she meets about these certifications that she was like poo-pooing right and left before. So that— I just get so excited when they get excited and I see them scale and grow and do things they never thought they would do because they got an introduction they didn't think they could get, or they have a mentor now they didn't think they could have.

Wow. So is it just you, or— I know you got a partner in—

in—

well, you have a whole team now that does this?

Yes. Yeah, we have a whole team. I was the bottleneck for too long, so we start as entrepreneurs are, right? So we— so now we have a whole team. My role really is now like sales, going to conferences, presenting at events to explain the value of diversity certification and supplier diversity and just really, you know, running strategy and kind of get to oversee. And I'm not, my arms aren't rolled up to the sleeves quite anymore, which is nice. My team is also like, I can help, I can help. Like, no, you stay in your lane.

We got that. Isn't that always the challenge when you grow a business that, that you can't, it's hard to let go.

Yes.

And since it's your baby, you tend to want to manage everything and control everything and you can't, not if you wanna scale.

No, you can't. You have to— and I say outsource. I'm always like outsource because you can't do everything yourself. Right. And people like, we're building a new website this year and everyone's like, you could just do it yourself. I guess I could, but A, it would look like I did it myself and B, it's gonna probably cost me 3 times what I'm paying someone else by the time I use all the hours it would take me to do it.

Right, right. Exactly. So you had all this success over 14 years. What do you think it's What do you think's unique about you that you bring to the table?

Personally, what I bring to the table?

Yeah. What, what is that makes this work?

So I think first of all, I actually genuinely really enjoy meeting people. I, I definitely like to hear people's stories and know about them and, and learn from everybody. I am a true believer that there's not one person that you can't learn something from. So I like to find out like what they did, what they learned. So I'm always asking people. Tons and tons of questions. So I think that combined with just my natural energy for what I do and excitement for what I do, people will often say to me, you made me love, like especially supplier diversity managers for Fortune 100 companies, Fortune 1000, like you make me like my job again. Sometimes it's frustrating, right? It can be a lonely job and they get beat down a lot, especially right now. But they're like, oh my gosh, you re-energize me and my passion for what I do. It reminds me of why we do what we do. Because I can just see the— I like seeing other people's success and I'm like the ultimate hype girl. I think that's probably what it comes down to is I like hyping other companies up as much as I can. And this is one way I can do it. Wow.

And that gets you— that's your ability to take a, even a small company or a medium-sized company, get them certified and then promote the heck out of them.

Yeah. Love it. I love it. If I can introduce somebody to something and I'm like, oh wait, you guys have to meet each other. Oh my gosh, you two should partner on this project. There's this thing coming down the line. And then they meet and they're like, they get so excited and I get excited. Like, it's just a ball of excitement. Oh, it's like snowballs.

You have no energy. I can tell. You, you could not have been as successful as you are working with as many different diverse people as you work with and also working with large companies that are looking for diverse vendor sources without developing some listening skills. Tell me how you learned how to listen.

That was actually very difficult because I am someone who thinks very fast. I'm constantly thinking like 2 steps ahead, right? So for me to have to stop and wait for somebody to finish what they're saying took a lot of work to do it, to keep my mouth shut just a little bit longer. And so I think that's really— and so sometimes you'll see, I'll wait and wait, people like start rambling because they're waiting for someone to jump in because they're so used to people jumping into their conversations. And so really what it is, I'm very conscious to wait. I still mess up. Let's not pretend that we're perfect at this, but wait for them to finish their thoughts because then I can actually address the entire thought. Whereas before, when you jump into the middle of it, you're not addressing the entire concept, the entire thought, and you may have missed something. And I'm better at it in business than in my personal life, that is for sure. I was just at the gym this morning. My friends, let me finish what I'm trying to tell you. But with business and hearing people out, I would like them to finish their entire thought before I jump in. And that was not a skill that was innate to me. I had to work on it.

Did you find that when people were talking that you knew what they were going to say before they said it and you just wanted to jump in and complete their thoughts for them?

Or I thought I knew what they were going to say. I just assumed, right? Like, I assume this is where they're going to go. And I'm like, that was a left turn I wasn't expecting in the conversation. But I wouldn't have known that if I didn't stop and keep my mouth shut just a little bit longer. To let them finish what they're saying.

How did you learn how to manage your anxiety?

I don't know if it's anxiety or just excitement. Maybe they go hand in hand, I guess. Right.

I'll take excitement.

Yeah.

How did you learn how to manage your excitement and your energy? You just wanted to get in there and help. Yeah.

You'll— if you're ever— if you ever see me on a panel, because I do the same thing on a panel, I always want to jump in, but I have to not because I'm not the only person speaking. If I'm on a panel, if you ever sit at the table, my toes are tapping, they're wiggling, my fingers are like— I'm manifesting— like, the energy is going to other extremities other than my mouth right now. Or I'm like, you'll see, I'm like doing this. I get a little excited. Like, people who know me well, they're like, oh, you were chomping at the bit to answer that question, weren't you? But it's really just reminding myself that I'm going to get my turn, but I can't answer them completely if I don't know what they're asking me or what they're saying or what the whole thought is.

Yeah. I remember when I was a trial lawyer that I had that problem.

Yes.

I would cut off the other lawyer in court.

That is kind of what lawyers do, though, right? That's kind of part of the—

But as a peacemaker, which I do now, 90% of my work is listening and making people feel heard and validated.

That is very important, especially when we're talking about the disability space, right? Because people often say, oh, I don't have a disability. And then I'll go into my whole speech about what a disability really is as far as certification is concerned. And then you see them think, then you can see them have that validation moment. And then oftentimes they'll share with me whatever their diagnosis is, which they may have not been comfortable sharing with just anybody. But now that I've given them a platform, a safe platform to share this experience, they do often feel validated.

And when they feel validated, they're grateful to you, aren't they? Yes.

Yes.

Because you have listened to them into existence, maybe for the first time.

Yeah, no, I remember actually with my oldest, she's on the spectrum, and it took me years of fighting for her to get some— somebody to pay attention to me, that there was something going on with this kid because she was very smart, but there was just something off. And the doctors were like, no, you're just a bad parent. No, this is just this. Nothing. Oh, all the things they told me. And then there was this one psych— this one psychologist who specialized in girls, and she said, Mom, you're right. And I just wanted to cry because it's the first time someone actually validated that I knew there was something going on, but no one would listen to me.

You're crazy, doesn't it?

Crazy.

You think about that one psychologist who said, "Mom, you're right," and you felt deeply validated. How did that make you feel?

I just felt— it's like, it's like a, a million-pound weight had been relieved off my shoulders because I was now able to get the help she needed. And it started us on this whole path to where she's now an amazing functioning— she's still a teenager, so she still got a teenage stuff. But sometimes I'm like, is that teenage or is that ASD? Because if I can therapy that out of her, that'd be great. And they're like, no, that's just the teenager. But it's just really, it really was like a million-pound weight lifted off my shoulders, thinking, okay, I can take a deep breath now, and now go to the next step. Yeah, I'll help figuring out the solution.

And, and now just imagine how your clients must feel when you're able to do that for them. Yeah, because you validate who they are and whatever challenge they face, you validate it and say, hey, we can help you.

Yeah. And sometimes it happens after they're certified because we also want them to know how to use their certification. It's not like a magic wand. I often give the analogy of people join the gym on January 1st and then March 31st they quit because they got nothing out of it. And I'm like, did you go to the gym or did you just sign up for the gym? Because those are two different things. Right. And so when they're telling me I will often say, ugh, I totally know how frustrating that is. I'll also say there's some tips and tricks that get you to the next stage of that. So that part's also challenging is the listening, knowing that they're not 100% correct in what they're saying. Right. But you still have to listen to them or they're not gonna listen to you.

So once somebody does get certified, then how do you help them use that to develop more leads, get more business, make more money?

So the certification is really an access. People will often give the analogy of a license to hunt, right? So you can now go out there and you can make introductions you may have not had before. It's the— one of the hardest parts as a business owner or as a salesperson is getting your foot in the door to have a conversation, right? And sometimes you're like, if you give me 5 minutes, you will love me. I just need you to give me those 5 minutes and they won't even give you the 5 minutes. So the Supplier Diversity Door is an access point. And so you have somebody who's your advocate inside, their whole job is to find qualified, capable, certified diverse suppliers to introduce to their team. Is it a magic wand? No. Once you're in the door, you have to sell like any other sale. Perform, be competitively priced and do well what you say you do. But you got in the door now, right? And so that's half the battle. Sometimes it's just getting in the door. So we teach them like the conferences to go to and how to leverage their local affiliates and local councils and if they want to take advantage of the mentorship opportunities or the executive MBA opportunities, these are all things that make you better business leaders and a better entrepreneur. And then you're a better supplier.

It sounds like it's really just networking.

It's a lot of networking, but also, for example, like Toyota is a great example. They have a mentorship program where they match you up with executives from within Toyota. Okay. So I was fortunate enough to be partnered with the CIO of Toyota North America. Now, for someone like me who sells to the Fortune 1000 companies, that was an unbelievable opportunity to get a C-suite perspective. And I remember saying, Holly, I don't understand. Like, I'll tell the companies what I do, the supplier diversity people, and they're like, you're amazing. We're not going to buy from you, but you're fantastic. And then so I'm like, what am I missing? What am I not saying that they need to hear? There's a gap between what I think they need to hear and what— and so she worked with me on my messaging. I paid nothing because I'm a certified diversifier and she wants to see us achieve and scale and grow and be successful. And so she brought— she helped me craft a video that I now send out as part of our, like our sales emails, if you will, that are talking directly to the Fortune 1000 companies because they need to hear a different message than the entrepreneurs do or the government agencies do. But I wouldn't have known that without her perspective. She's in the C-suite of a Fortune 50 company.

So what is the message that they need to hear that, that you wouldn't think to give them?

It was everything from just the way I presented it. The information was relatively the same. Sometimes it's just the words you use, right? Because words matter. And so sometimes it was the words I used, also talking about what's important to them. And I didn't always know, right? A lot of times people just think it's about the amount of money you spend with diverse suppliers. That is great. And, you know, just this week I'm going to a conference called the Billion Dollar Roundtable. It's— there's 39 companies that spend $1 billion every year with certified diverse suppliers. That's an amazing accolade. But if your whole supply chain is $1 billion, you're not spending $1 billion with diverse businesses, right? So it's about understanding what their goals are. Now, some of them, it's because they have clients. That they said it's important to them. Some of them, they really want to— they need to report to a state organization or whatever, right? Some of them, it's because they said, we know our shareholders have tasked us because they know they're going to bring home more money in their pocket to spend 22%, and we're at 10 right now. How can we do this better? So whatever their goals are, and it was about also talking about the metrics that they need to report, however it's reportable. And so it was just the very basic kind of minor tweaks But again, it was the way it was presented. That audience needed to hear it, and I just didn't know it beforehand.

And how'd that work out for you?

It was great. Our corporate trajectory changed. We like so many more corporate clients. And then this last year I had another mentorship program, and this time it was with TD Bank, which is— they're out of Canada, which was great because we went international the last couple of years. And so just having her perspective as well, because things are called different— there's different verbiage in different countries. And so just having her— and then she even helped me tighten up and clean up that same video. Just a little bit more, and then I'll send it out to some of my resources and my colleagues that I trust that I know will tell me if they like something or don't like something. I don't want yes men. I never want yes men in my life because it'll make you better. And I'd send it out and they're like, oh yeah, I like how you put that from the beginning now. Cause I started out with a thank you in the first video and she said, end it with a thank you. And just like little things like that. Again, her perspective as a corporate.

Wow. Cool. So where do you see yourself going with this whole project you've been doing for 14 years?

So now we're chugging along doing all the same services, but we're also adding now some services. So for example, some of the organizations that certify, some recognize their strengths and some don't, but they'll outsource the reviewing process. And so we're trying to get into doing more of that now as well, reviewing the applications from that come through to make sure they meet all the eligibility requirements of that organization. We're also working with some, getting into some federal work, which we never did before. So we're trying to work on some federal trainings and just some different opportunities that are out there. Sometimes in the federal space, it's really cuz people like will read the RFP and they're like, oh, I can't do it. So people don't apply. And so it's really interesting. And I've started following some of these gurus and, and befriended some of them and done some partnership programs with them so that we can share our expertise, which is a win for everybody as well. Wow.

So there's still more to grow.

Still more to do. And just only 1% of diverse suppliers in the US are certified. 1%.

So it's a big market opportunity.

There is a lot of opportunity. And for example, one of the things I, I'm constantly explaining to people is that even as a small business, as a medium business, as a large business, you also should be growing the pie. We can't just expect everybody else to do the work. Right. So we track our diverse spend. What we are, the website person I mentioned, they're a minority and disability certified business. So we also have to. So the more people that make this a conscious decision in their supply chain, the more opportunity. Because some people before were like, there's not enough opportunity. There's so much opportunity out there. You just have to know how to use it, how to partner with people, and then you yourself should create opportunities as well, because not all businesses are ready to do business with the Fortune 100, right? Maybe they just start with another small business, another medium-sized business. You be that business. Right. Wow.

That's pretty cool. You're obviously very excited about it.

I get very excited about it. We'll be out sometimes and I'll be like, oh, you see that vodka right there? That's a woman-owned business. My husband's like, nobody cares but you. I'm like, no, they're gonna care before I leave this bar.

Wow. Is, is your financial model like a fee-based business? People pay you a fee, but depending on the services they want, of course, will vary the fee and that sort of thing.

Yeah, so it's, we have a flat rate fee for the entrepreneurs because you never know till you're eyeball deep in the process if it's where, you know, what it is. So it's a flat rate fee because I hate being nickel and dimed as a business owner. I'm like, just tell me what it costs. For the corporations, it's usually an ongoing, they're year-long programs. And so they're like a retainer service for them. And then we have some consulting options, which are just hourly as well for the entrepreneurs. And some of our classes, some of our courses, you just buy our online purchases as well. But yeah, so it is all fee-based. We are not a nonprofit. We are definitely a for-profit.

I hope so. How do people find you?

So they go to certifymycompany.com and watch, look now, and then go ahead and look again in 3 months and you'll see a big difference, hopefully.

Oh, that's life-changing.

Yeah, I know. And it's like such a fun process, isn't it?

So I'm, I gotta go through it too and I'm dragging my feet. Yeah.

It's 'cause it's like knowing that you're gonna be in pain for a few months, but you're like, I know I gotta do it, but I don't really wanna do it.

I know, I know.

And so, yes, our company.com, we're on all the social medias at Certify My Co. We post a lot of information about conferences, just about the SLOPODiversity industry as a whole. So it's both entertaining and educational.

One more question. I'll let, let you go, Heather. What is one thing about yourself that we would never know about unless you revealed it to us?

I'm an open book, but I'm gonna say the thing that most people wouldn't know unless they really read my bio, and I'm always shocked then they don't bring it up if they read the bio, is that I used to perform in a circus for— from when I was 6 to when I was 18, I actually performed in a circus. It's based in Redlands, California. It's called the Great All-American Youth Circus. I did everything from tightrope to unicycle to juggling, hand balancing.

I think I saw that you were a juggler.

I was a juggler. Yeah, every once in a while I could still pick it up and juggle and still juggle the tightrope. I haven't been able to practice. Been trying to find one. There's actually a circus school here in Las Vegas. And so they don't always have a tightrope up, so I'm always like calling, "Is it up? Is it up? Is it up?" to try to go play with them. But that's something that you wouldn't necessarily know unless you read it. Probably that.

How much fun is that? What a great conversation, Heather. Thank you so much for your time today.

Thank you.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be great guests, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up, ratings, and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or if follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.