70 - Navigating Startup Challenges: Scaling: Hiring and CEO Success with LG NOVA's Curtis Sasaki

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional, and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Curtis Isaki, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are a senior advisor to LG Nova as well as multiple other startups., and the easiest way for people to find you is to search for you on LinkedIn. Welcome.

Hey, thanks for having me.

You have a, a, over a 30-year career in technology startups, and I'd like to start a little bit with a backstory about yourself and then what got you into where you are today.

Sure. Um, actually, I was born in Hawaii and, uh, You know, Hawaii's not exactly known for being a technology hub, but, you know, growing up I always had the inkling to take things apart and build things. So I would build like tube amplifiers for audio equipment. I'd build speakers. I love like using Erector Sets to put things together. So that was sort of my entrée into the world of tech. It was pretty low-tech, but it sort of provided me with the being inquisitive about discovering things.

So how did that, how did that morph into you moving into technology? I mean, did you follow educational path that took you that way?

Yeah, so, um, I was interested in like mechanical engineering because, you know, again, putting things together, taking things apart. So, um, in college I studied mechanical engineering but also business., which was really fascinating because, you know, one of the subjects that got me really interested was advertising. So mechanical engineering and advertising, two very divergent areas, but both were super, um, interesting for me to learn.

And how did— and then how did your career progress from there?

Yeah, so, um, after graduation I, um, took a job at, uh, probably one of the early computer stores in— based in Seattle, and they were the first stores in Washington to actually carry the Apple II. As soon as I got my hands on that, it's like, whoa, this is like something I can really get into. So I taught myself programming, um, while working at the store. Um, I became the actual manager of both the computer store and an audio store, which was sort of in my wheelhouse. And I actually taught programming. So what was different is, you know, we not only sold Apple IIs, but we— I had to learn how to fix them. I had to learn, um, actually how to teach people how to use it. So yeah, it gave me an interesting, um, perspective about, you know, products, right? It's like, it's not just how it looks, but And actually people use it.

Interesting.

Um, I learned beginner's all-purpose symbolic instruction code, basic programming, in 1969 at Dartmouth College on a mainframe timeshare computer, and we were all allocated 2K, and, and all the input— the input device was either Hollerith cards or punch tape.

Yep.

And, and, and though, if you remember, in those days, that's where the term bug came from. Yeah, it'd be a bug on a card that would plug a hole or do something, and you'd drive yourself crazy trying to figure out where did I make that mistake.

Yeah, that's what I use, an IBM punch cards in college and programming Fortran.

Oh, Fortran, right. So, well, we date ourselves, don't we?

Oh yeah, unfortunately.

What are you doing today? You're a senior advisor to these startups. Tell us a little bit about your work today.

Yeah, so, um, you know, after spending a lot of years in, as you know, product marketing, product management, managing engineering teams, um, finding and creating some new businesses, I wanted to sort of take a step back and, um, kind of figure out, okay, I don't want to work so hard anymore in terms of working for big companies, but how to keep my, my network going, how to you know, help other startup companies to hopefully not make the same mistakes that I had made in my past. So that's what, um, you know, was my going in, in terms of retirement, if you call it that. And I got a call from LG saying, hey, we're starting up this, uh, new innovation center in Santa Clara. A very, very small team. Um, would you like to come, you know, be an advisor? Because I told him I didn't want to work full-time. I actually wanted to support other companies, which I was already helping to get going. One of the other companies, for example, is based in Seattle, and they're called Pure Watercraft. They're actually electrifying boating, both in the powertrain as well as in battery packs and They've now actually made a whole pontoon boat that's all electric. I mean, totally different space when you— if you think about it, you know, LG being more known for consumer electronics, um, this other company doing boating. But when you think about, there's a lot of overlap. If you think about building an electrified boat engine, what do you do with cables? What do you do with the mobile application, right? There's, there's a lot of product thinking that needs to happen. In LG's case, it wasn't so much about helping, like, build a better TV. It was really about helping the company think sort of outside the box and look at other business opportunities that hopefully, by working with startup companies, they can actually, you know, utilize LG strengths and create new businesses both for the startups as well as for the company.

So you're, are you currently advising, is it called Boaty, the company up in Seattle?

They're called Pure Watercraft.

Pure Watercraft. You'll be interested knowing that I'm one of the partners in a startup in Marina Del Rey, California. And we have developed a radical new form of electric motor and generator where we are at 98.6% efficiency as either a motor or a generator. It's a third the size of a conventional motor or generator. And we use 60% less copper. Wow. And it's catastrophic— if it's catastrophic failure-proof, because we don't use windings, we have a completely different technology. And it's a 3— it's a radial axial radial topology. So we actually have 3 magnetic fields instead of the usual 2. That's how we develop the efficiencies. And we're in negotiations in the EV market right now to license the technology. So it's interesting. Yeah. Um, so as I understand LG Nova, it's basically, is it, would we consider it an incubator?

In a way it is. You know, a lot of corporates who start incubators basically come up with ideas and then they hire engineering teams and try to internally build out some of these concepts. What Nova's doing is a little bit different. It's more what they call inside out. So rather than, you know, building large engineering teams to work on different projects, um, we actually work very closely with startup companies. So when I first, um, started advising the company, the notion was let's create these, these competitions and have startups apply. And to, I think, a lot of our surprise, you know, we had, um, several thousand startup companies globally apply.

Wow.

Competition. And, uh, I actually, I actually, I was like, I think one of two people who actually looked at every single application, video and demo. It, it took, you know, weeks to actually do that. But it was important because, you know, we wanted to make sure that the feedback we gave the startups and the ones that we actually selected were really the cream of the crop, you know. So it's— it takes time to actually parse it through it and actually learn quite a bit about what's happening in the overall industry. Because, you know, when you see so many companies, you know, maybe doing the similar things, okay, is there a trend there? Um, and you see some companies doing things that were done maybe 3 to 5 years ago, you know, like, okay, they're probably gonna, you know, not do so well. So, um, it was a lot of work, but again, it gave me an interesting perspective of sort of what was happening globally in the startup community.

And what kind of advisory services do you provide these companies?

Um, so right now it can be everything from, you know, getting exposure, more exposure. It's also getting them an opportunity to work with LG. So for example, in the healthcare area, a company says, I have this technology but I can't scale, or I can't do a pilot to the, to the level I want to. So LG will actually help the company do that.

Well, what's in it for LG?

Well, like I said, um, the— this is— this inside-out theory is about, okay, let's help the startups. If we see it actually growing, we actually may, you know, invest money. We may actually over time do an M&A. Okay, or we can put, you know, maybe two startups together with LG and create a much bigger opportunity.

So what is it that gets you excited in the morning? You've been around for a long time.

What gets you up and say, "Whoa, I get to work today." Well, I think right now for me, hearing sort of the challenges, the problems that, you know, a lot of these CEOs have is interesting, right? Because I said, hmm, I've actually experienced that years ago. And, you know, if I actually provide advice and it actually helps them, you know, work through these things, it's pretty satisfying, right, to see I actually made a difference. And what do you—

what is it you think that's unique about you that you bring to the table?

Well, I think for me, um, I'm a pretty humble person. Um, I've been lucky, I think, throughout my career of experiencing, uh, lots of different environments, cultures, working for some amazing, you know, people, including Steve Jobs for 7 years. And, um, so I think the perspective I bring is, you know, one of experience of actually working on some really challenging projects. I actually worked on Java in the early days and brought it to consumer devices. And in a lot of these things, you know, people didn't really have the same belief that it was going to be successful. And, you know, through will and hard work, you know, some of these actually came to fruition and became pretty successful. So, but I've also worked for some startup companies that actually didn't do so well, right? I worked for General Magic, which, great idea before its time, uh, company crashed and burned. But the, the people who work there, you know, they're part of my network, you know, Tony Fadell who did Nest, Andy Rubin who did Android.

Wow.

Kevin Lynch, who is in charge of Apple Watch, you know. So These are all people I work very closely with and, you know, have a relationship with. So yes, the company failed, but, you know, sort of life goes on and you have these lifelong relationships you can count on.

Interesting. So you're well connected in the technology sector.

Yeah, I mean, I— some, some of it wasn't planned, but it turned out that way. Wow, fortunately.

That is exciting. So when you're looking at these CEOs and these startups, what is it— what's the— what are the common problems that these that these companies and CEOs are facing?

I think some of it's common, some of it's not common. A lot of, you know, some of these companies, one of the companies, for example, is headquartered in Japan. Yeah, and they're very successful in Japan. They actually IPO'd, but, you know, how do they scale outside of Japan, right? That's their, the biggest challenge.

That would be a major cultural problem, I think.

Yeah, and You know, some of the other CEOs I talked to, for example, you know, hiring is a problem, right? Like, how do you find the best people, especially— well, maybe, uh, now it's a little bit easier with all of the technology challenges and layoffs we've been seeing. But, you know, I, I always tell CEOs that your, your top and first 5 hires are probably your most important. And how do you make sure that they're the right people, right? Culturally, emotionally, um, that you can actually trust and communicate effectively with? It's not easy.

No, it's difficult. And a lot of these CEOs don't have those skills to begin with, so they have to, they have to cultivate these skills, or, or not. If they don't cultivate them, then, you know, they face even more problems.

I also think, you know, telling a CEO that over the course of maybe the company lasts 5 to 10 years, their job is going to change and their skill set's going to have to change. And sometimes they don't like hearing that, right? Like, right, I'm the perfect CEO.

Well, maybe you're the perfect CEO for a 10-person startup, but are you the perfect CEO for a 500-person firm that's now capitalized at $30 million and about ready to go past— go IPO or MA or whatever? I mean, You know, companies go through growth stages, and not every CEO who's a founder is well suited for the next level.

Yep, that's right. But you know, sometimes it's hard for them to swallow that news, right?

Well, you get wedded to your story and it gets hard to let go of. Now, this podcast is called Listing with Leaders because as a lawyer turned peacemaker, I find listing to be the foundational skill of life. How important have you found listening to be in your career?

Oh, I think I'm more of a listener than a talker. And I think part of it comes back to, you know, sort of growing up in Hawaii to Asian parents who kind of drill that into your head that, you know, you have to be humble, you have to listen carefully. And but also, I think, you know, working with such brilliant people over time, it's like, yeah, you want to actually hear as much from them as possible and learn from that.

In terms of the CEOs that you work with, how, how would you rank their, their listening skills?

I think, um, it varies quite a bit. Um, you know, some CEOs listen for a little bit, but still they have their own opinion, right? Even though They may not actually have heard you even though you said things that are important. Others, you know, I would say much harder to deal with because they really don't. They might pretend to listen, but they don't hear what you actually are saying.

That's right.

Do you—

have you seen a correlation between a CEO's ability to listen and the ultimate success of the company?

Oh yeah, unfortunately, yes.

Tell me about that.

Um, I, I think, um, I don't want to name names, but you know, one of the CEOs, um, all of us were saying like, product's too expensive, late to market, um, probably isn't going to do as well as you might think, right? And, and maybe we should pivot. And by the time You know, product shipped. Guess what happened? It didn't sell. And the company lasted for 2 more years, tried to pivot, but it was too late to pivot.

And that's because the CEO wasn't listening to the advice.

Um, yeah, I mean, some, like you said, you know, some CEOs who are also founders are so wedded to their idea that even with all of the data that you see in front of you and Hearing it from customers not opening their wallet to your product, right?

So it's not, it's not only a fun— as, as I understand listening to you, it's not only a function of not being able to listen, it's not being able to make good decisions. They have really flawed decision-making processes where they're letting a bunch of cognitive biases get in the way of making sound decisions.

Yeah, I mean, um, You know, I feel for founder— founding CEOs, right? Because they have a tough job, and letting go is also not easy.

No, and it's high risk. You know, we know that 9 out of 10 startups fail, right? So it's high risk, and— but it's exciting, and there's always a chance of grabbing that brass ring and making a bunch of money, right? So there's a lot of motivation, but people get really— their egos get in the way.

I mean, the thing I also learned is when you think about global companies, they're very, very different. Um, you know, Asian companies, for example, very hierarchical, right, in terms of communications and decision-making, right? Versus a Silicon Valley company, which is typically you know, much more, a little bit more consensus building and more risk-taking, right?

And that strikes me then that the CEO, the founder CEO of those people, really has to know how to manage people, manage group decision making, and really have good emotional intelligence.

That's right. If they're going to succeed.

And those that don't fail, and those that do have better odds of, of getting forward because it's all about the people. Yes.

You know, I think some of the Asian companies, though, are doing a better job of actually sending out executives to actually live globally first before getting promoted.

That's interesting. So, so you could take a, say, a South Korean company, and they'll send their executives to Canada or the United States or Europe to work overseas to get a culturally diverse experience, cultural education.

I think, describe it. So I think that's making a big difference, whereas maybe 5 years ago you didn't see too much of that.

I hadn't really thought about that, but it makes perfect sense. Yeah. Especially if we, you know, I mean, globalization, who knows what globalization is today, right? But the idea, but we still do, I mean, the trading between Asia and Europe and you know, North America and even South America is still going on. And so, and all thousands and thousands of different cultures, it's not— there's nothing homogeneous here. And so understanding what culture is and what the differences are, I think, would be very important in that kind of work.

Yeah, I mean, I, I learned, um, interesting lessons, right, when I first joined Samsung as a senior vice president of innovation lab. That was the first time I actually worked for an Asian company, you know, where I had a Korean boss in Korea, right? Prior to that, you know, all of my— the CEOs that I had worked for were all based in Silicon Valley.

Wow, so that was a bit of a culture shock for you.

Yeah, and you know, for I think us in Silicon Valley, it's like you say what's on your mind, You tell it like it is. You don't sugarcoat stuff, right?

That is not the Asian way.

Yeah. And you also go through hierarchy of communications, right? Well, the CEOs of several of the different divisions came over and wanted an update. And I gave them an update, right? And said it like it was. And it's not like they didn't like it. They actually appreciated it. And later on, what was interesting was some of the VPs in Korea would communicate to me and says, next time you're in Korea and you have a meeting with the CEO, could you ask these kinds of questions or make these comments? Like, you know, I was kind of taken aback, like, why don't you do it, right? But I didn't understand the sort of the cultural difference.

Yeah, deference to authority. Difference to hierarchy. Yes, community comes first, organization comes first, individualism second, right?

Just a—

it's, it's a different way of thinking about who we are as human beings. Yeah, very interesting.

Yeah, I wouldn't say it was wrong, but no, no, no, it's just different.

So let me ask you one more question and I'll let you go. Um, what is the one thing about you, Curtis, that we wouldn't know Unless you revealed it to us.

Oh boy. Um, I, I actually love sports, and I actually played USTA tennis. Um, and it was interesting because on my team there were, you know, most of us at the time anyway, I was like in my 50s but a lot of my teammates were in their 60s or 70s. And it was interesting because it actually— I never thought it was going to help me build a network, but I met like a former war correspondent from CNN who had retired and was telling me all these amazing, interesting stories. And, you know, I met former VPs of tech companies. So It was kind of a surprise, a pleasant surprise, that even by playing competitive tennis, I got to actually meet, you know, really amazing people.

That is a great story. Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Really interesting conversation.

Thank you so much.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screen screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up, ratings, and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a means a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.