77 - Scaling Strategies for Home Service Businesses with CEO Warrior's Mike Disney

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Mike Disney, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the CEO of CEO Warrior. Which can be found at CEOwarrior.com. Welcome to the show.

Well, thank you so much, Doug. I appreciate being here with you today.

So let's, first of all, very briefly, what does CEO Warrior do?

So CEO Warrior is a training and an implementation organization that is specialized or hyper-focused in the home service business. So what do we do? We come from where CEO Warrior was built, was inside of a home service company here in central New Jersey where I'm located, and we were one of the largest home service companies in the country at the time we started to build and develop CEO Warrior. And CEO Warrior really is, if you wanted to simplify it, call it a best practice group for everybody who owns a home service company. We help them with pricing and marketing and acquiring talent and hiring and strategies behind all that, and really kind of everything that a business owner needs to, to know to improve and scale their business.

So when you talk about home services, what kind of services are we talking about?

Yeah, so we, we've touched over our— we've been, we've a little over 8 years, we're almost 9 years in business. We've touched over 42 different industries. So mostly, and where we come from, our two founders along with myself, I'm an auto mechanic by trade, so I'm not really home service, but I migrated to the home service industry and sold HVAC. So plumbing, heating, cooling, and electric companies primarily is what our majority of clients are, but there's pest control and roofing and siding and landscapers and construction and all of the, all of the nuances. If you go to a home and sell something to a client, we could support you in that journey.

Got it. And what's your backstory? How do you end up in this business?

Well, it's a pretty interesting story, I would imagine, for most people. So I am— I'm an auto mechanic by trade. I owned 3 automotive centers in central New Jersey. They were all under one roof. I did auto electric, I did general repair, and I had a transmission facility. Across the street from me was this guy who did auto glass. And we became really good friends because we're in the same business. He refers to me, I refer to him, and his brother, Rob Zadati, who is one of my mentors, dearest friends, and one of our founders here at CEO Warrior. He owned a company called Gold Medal Service here in central New Jersey, and I got the chance to manage his fleet before I ever got to work for him. And so my business worked on their fleet. So we managed their trucks, kept them up and running, kept them with the ability to serve their clients at a high level. Life kind of throws you some curveballs, you could imagine, along the way. And I went through a— I won't say tumultuous divorce, but whenever you— I have, I have 4 children plus an adopted, so I have 5 children altogether. And so it can be tumultuous when you go through that. And for me, my, my ex-wife was my partner in business and my father-in-law was my landlord. And so I was gifted an opportunity to go over to Gold Medal Service and help them with some retail challenges that they were having. And, um, you know, knowing culture, knowing the guys that were bringing me the trucks, I really wanted to know a lot about their journey and what that was like. And then when I got the opportunity to work with those guys, I just fell in love. I fell in love with serving clients in their house. I fell in love with the products and the offerings that we offered. And quite frankly, I just fell in love with the industry. I fell in love with the people and how they do all those things. And so I went over to Gold Medal Service to help them with the Costco relationship that they have. Most people will know Costco on the exit rows. We used to sell HVAC out of the exit rows. And, uh, shortly after that, I became the salesperson selling HVAC in the home, became the sales manager, and all this in a 2-year span. I was a director of sales by then. And so, um, my, my last year at Gold Medal Service, I was managing about $21 million in revenue and about 105 employees. And so, um, we were a pretty sizable company, and that was my responsibility to that company. And, um, it just catapulted us into helping people with what we did great on a daily basis and helping people ease the pains of being an entrepreneur and a business owner like most of your clients know what that means.

Yeah, so you went from being an auto tech guy to being running the business, a big business.

Yeah, well, I mean, like, as you guys know, when you're an entrepreneur, I don't think you could ever be caged right into a box or put into a position. And so for me, you know, when I was a little kid, I was— I always, I laugh, I get people to laugh about this, but I really believe it. I was the best paperboy that ever lived in the state of Maryland, right? And so I would walk by houses and really be kind of, it would be really compromising to me that I would walk by and not deliver you a newspaper. And so I was always in the selling end of it. I was always in the growing of the business. Um, when I got my sister's paper out, because it was gifted to me, um, I took it from 80 newspapers to 190. And so, um, and that was my first venture into entrepreneurship. And then I just fell in love with it. And then when I got my own business, I did work for Herman Sporting Goods. I might be dating myself that a little bit, but I worked for Herman Sporting Goods, which in the Northeast was a pretty profound sporting goods store, and I did some retail work there. I was every— I was a tennis stringer all the way up to the store manager. And so I think I really cut my teeth learning a lot about business there. Um, went up into New Jersey and I bought a couple businesses from some family members, and I fell in love with being an entrepreneur and managing people and helping people support their dreams. And when I got over to, to Gold Medal Service, while I wasn't the owner, I treated every day like being the owner and understanding the profound responsibility there. And then coming over here to see Warrior actually having some, um, being, being a participant in the ownership group as well as being the chief operating officer. It's just been an amazing journey to support people in theirs.

So, so, um, the, the— what was it, Golden Service? Was that the name of the company?

Gold Medal Service.

Gold Medal Service.

That—

they were— it was purchased by private equity.

Yeah. So that was, uh, that was my first dance with private equity as I got sold like— I got sold like cattle, um, as, as you do as you're a critical manager. And so being the director of sales Suns Capital, if you guys know private equity, Suns Capital came in. They were, they were in a big, they were in an abundance of acquiring companies. They had acquired Horizon Services, which was a large competitor of ours in the Delaware area. Then they purchased Gold Medal and then Castile all in the same real pretty close proximity. And, you know, that journey taught me a lot about what it's like to, you know, grow and scale a business to the next level. Not, don't necessarily know that I was really ready for that, right? For that journey. Um, and then I was able to come over here and maintain my training and coaching that I was doing for all of my existing clients. And, um, and then, and then lo and behold, in 2020, we got sold here at CEO Warrior to private equity. So my founders have gone through two, um, sales of private equity, and now I'm, I'm kind of, uh, the operator that's kind of making everything happen on a day-to-day basis. And I couldn't be more pleased with, um, not only our investing team at Corridor Capital, but ultimately, you know, the people that work here and the fine work that we're doing. And just the incredibly rewarding work that we're doing to help people get out of their own way and get over their challenges.

So what's— what's it— give me a typical client profile for CEO Warrior.

Yeah, pretty. I mean, I'll just give you the average. Our average client, I guess, I guess we have clients that are in the hundreds of thousands or six figures in business and up to $100 million. We've had all of that in between. I think the majority of our clients hover in that $3 to $7 million range, and they're looking for, you know, what is the next identity for them? How do they transition? Most of them are out of that tactical position. Most of them are not in a truck anymore, but we teach that, right? That's a discipline to teach how to get out of the truck, how to recognize you're a business owner, how to really recognize that you're not a plumber. If you own a plumbing company, you are entrepreneur and a businessman, and you need to recognize that first, because if you don't, you'll just become the bottleneck in the churn. So if I gave you like the average of our clients is in that 3 to 7 range, could be any size there. There's a whole lot of different complexities around the sizing of that.

And so you're taking all these people who have maybe started off as solopreneurs, as plumbers or electricians or HVAC people, they built a business, now they've got employees and maybe they have education, maybe they don't. And you're teaching them how to scale their business.

Yeah. The majority of our clients, um, are all like, they could have been a plumber that worked for a plumber and said, I'm gonna do this myself. If he can do it, I can do it. And so they go out, they get themselves a business, they start getting some clients based on word of mouth. Now they have to learn how to market. Now they have to learn how build systems and processes. Now they have to know, am I charging the right amount of money? How do I answer the phones the right way? How do I sell the right way? How do I, you know, handle client escalations? And so we teach them all of that. And quite frankly, the most difficult part is getting them out of the truck and then having them have a deeper understanding that they're more beneficial as the business owner. And then once they get really moving and grooving, um, and cooking with gas, it's pretty easy to grow and scale if they follow the process that's laid out for So what is it that gets you really excited in the morning getting out of bed? Yeah, I still— I live in a world where I have incredibly dedicated employees to our clients' journey, and we look, we talk about that on a pretty regular basis. I mean, I think there's a lot of things that made me excited. You know, we have a— my CEO asked me every day and he says to me, he goes, how you doing today? And I always say, I'm amazing, right? Because I really love the journey that I'm on. I think what we do is exceptional work. I think what gets me out of bed and gets me excited for the day is to recognize that some of my clients are going to avoid the pitfalls that I've already experienced because they're going to have interaction with me today. And so I always say I've hit every rung in the ladder on the way down and I climbed it all back up. And so, and so if I could, if I could impart some wisdom based on my journey and the challenges that I've had in my business, um, experiences, I can help you get to the next level a little bit seamlessly and, and without any, uh, massive challenges, if you will. I think that's really what does it for me. And understanding that the client journey, it never ends. It just gets more rewarding. It never gets easier. It just gets more rewarding. And getting people to recognize that those small rewards are what we look for every day and helping them find it, that's everything for me.

It sounds to me like once clients come to you, they probably stay with you for quite a while.

Yeah, we've had some people that we call from the backyard where people have been in our world since we've been in business for 9 years. I mean, I do believe there is a method and I think it's really important to say it. A lot of the students feel like they do become the teachers at times. And then they, you know, and there is a, there is a cost factor to participating in our world. So some of them get relief from moving on from that. But, um, one thing that we're exceptionally proud, or two things we're exceptionally proud of, is that in our 9-year tenure, we recognize that we played a part in $1 billion in revenue growth for our clients, which for us is exceptional. We're super proud of that. Um, probably the singular thing that I'm more most proud of, even over and above that kind of amazing stat, is that allowed 36 of our clients to exit, and we've helped them in that journey. And so over the last 2.5 years, 36 of our clients have exited to generational wealth through either private equity acquisition or handoff and all that. And so we've been incredibly, incredibly proud of those, those moments that we've had with our clients.

And you're able to help those people do that. You got, you got the in-house expertise to help them navigate all that.

Yeah, we've, uh, our advisors have incredible experience. And, um, me, I've been through 2 private equity journeys which have been pretty amazing just to be part of and participate in, and so some of my other advisors. And so we really have a good playbook down for that, and we've been through the pitfalls of diligence and the pain of diligence and what that means and acquiring the right company and the expectations that come along with all that.

What do you think it is that's unique about you that you bring to this business?

I think, well, that's interesting. I think I bring this humble energy and this just just transparent, authentic person. Um, I think, uh, I have— I'm 53 years old, right? So when I say this to younger people, they may not get it. I have wisdom way past my years. And what do I mean by that? Um, I think when you look at life things and things that happen, I've hit, uh, every hurdle along the way, I feel like. And I just had— I've been able to kind of learn each and every time and temperament through that. Um, I, I could go through some of the things. I lost both parents within a 2-month and that's a really heavy thing. My mom was my best friend. My father was just incredibly dedicated to our family and just a— he was a very brilliant man and a hardworking guy. Got work ethic from him. My mom died of dementia, so I know that journey and that battle. I had a best friend commit suicide. I have an oldest daughter who has multi-handicaps. And so, I could go down the list of all the challenges that I have had and felt and delivered to myself. But ultimately, I've grown and scaled from all that. And I kind of understand it. You know, I'm an Irish Catholic guy, so I'm incredibly emotional, if you will, right? And so I wear a lot of emotion. And I loved some of your stuff where that talked about the 98% emotional—

98% emotional, man. You're just a normal human being.

You are not— I might be 99%.

Okay, I'll give you that, right?

And so give me a little— give me a little bit more. Just give me a little bit. And so for me, I love the fact that I get to I get to bring some of that to my coaching and my connections with my clients. But I also recognize that if I, if I'm not authentic with them and I'm not transparent about my problems, then am I really educating them to the things that they need to hear and know? And that's really what I think the most impactful thing as a leader. And I think where it progresses me in the position I'm at as the operations manager and being the chief operating officer here is that I have the ability to kind of see things before they may happen because of some of the challenges. And then when I talk to my employees and position them for the things that may come because I've experienced it, you know, sometimes they think I got a crystal ball, sometimes they think I'm crazy. So either way, I know that through those conversations, it allows me to be, you know, somebody who they can really kind of look at to and say, wow, he just gets it, knows where we're going. And I'm humbled by the experience and the opportunities that present that to me.

Well, you You strike me, I mean, you said a couple of words that really strike me. One, you strike me as being a pretty humble guy, even though you've had some terrific successes that come as a result of many failures, of course. Of course. And also you do come across as very authentic and very real. And I would imagine that both clients and employees and other people, stakeholders in CEO Warrior, probably look at you as a real anchor for the organization. That would be my sense.

Yeah, you know, I, I have this, uh, badge on my chest, right? It's our company logo and all that. And, and, um, I'm pretty sure I'm, uh, I'm born and raised in Baltimore, so this is gold and black. Um, don't tell any Pittsburgh Steelers fan that if I cut my arm open, I would bleed, uh, gold and black, but it may very well be that if that happens. So, um, I just think that this is the, the vision of the business and what was presented to me 9 years ago about where we were going. Um, and we talk about it as a painted vision here. It was just a brilliant picture for me. And it's created this opportunity for me to recognize that every single day is an incredible gift, not only of who I get to talk to, but, you know, the performance that I can allow them to have in their own business and how I can help them kind of create that for their next generation or for the people that work for them. Man, it's an incredible responsibility, and I absolutely love it. And our vision here at CEO Warrior leads to their success. And so, I sure hope my people in my organization feel that way. And. And I try to, I try to really kind of emulate that every single day.

So what's the next play for you? You're 53 years old, you got a number of working years ahead of you. What do you see down the road for yourself?

Um, I think, I think where we're at right now here at CEO Warrior, and I think for myself, um, you know, obviously personally, uh, selfishly, I just want to see my kids grow and scale to the perfect lives that they want. I want them to be incredibly happy. Um, I want my daughters to go to— my daughter, one daughter's in college here at Ramapo here in New Jersey. I to experience everything she wants to experience out of life. My son is working for Caterpillar. I have a multi-handicapped daughter who just loves life. And if we wouldn't get a word in edgewise, Doug, if she was here today. And then my youngest daughter Ashley is going to be finishing up high school. I want them to have everything possible. My adopted son Troy is doing just really special work in the indigenous people world. And he's, he's part, you know, and that's— he's doing incredible stuff and he's a PhD now. So super proud of them. And I always want to just support them on their journey. And then when I think about CEO where you're— where we're going, I think there's a demand to grow and scale so I can deliver more to our clients. I think what happens is the more people that I can provide in, in like a networking facility, put these around really special people and grow and scale the business, I think I put my clients in a position to learn and grow and scale faster and more and more easier, if that's a word and term. Just get them in a position to really kind of understand if I can put really great people around them, they'll be able to do what they want to do quicker. Quicker, faster. And it's all about the freedom they want in their life, right? What does it look like? Does— do they want to coach their kids in football and baseball? Do they want to create an ability to not have to make all these ultimate sacrifices that I did? I mean, I was making a lot of money as a Comfort Advisor in the house selling air conditioning equipment, but I wanted to coach my kids' football team. So I had to— I had to move away from that responsibility to go inside to be a sales manager because I wanted the afternoons to coach my kids' football team. And so I want I want my clients to understand the sacrifices that may be necessary and how do they avoid them by doing really great work up front now before they have to get to the point where I had to feel some pain, right? Because, you know, as you go through a divorce, and I don't have to tell anybody that's watching this that's been through it, it's expensive, it's challenging, and it's not a great place to be. And, um, and so, and, and like, look, I mean, I talk about it all the time because while I am a divorced dad of 5, um, it doesn't define who I am. And in all reality, I I'm— there's, you know, how many people are— it's over 50% now end up in divorce. And so I recognize that's a big problem in business today. A lot of, a lot of C-level guys, they spend a lot of time ingrained in their business and the focus of their journey of their career and what that looks like. And, you know, for me, if I can help people just understand how do you kind of avoid some of that and recognize that sacrifices will have to happen one way or the other and you get to choose which ones they are.

Yeah, it's interesting you should mention that. I do work with a lot of C-level people who put all their energy and effort into their business and neglect their family. And so they lose their family relationships, and now all of a sudden they're making all this money, but they're not happy.

Yeah.

And they come to me and I teach them how to reconnect with their families.

I, I love that. I mean, for me, I think, um, you know, I always said I'd be a great court advocate because, um, I'm— I don't, I don't think divorce— like, look, I don't think divorce is an option, but I do believe some people need to absolutely go through it because it's necessary. Some people just aren't meant to be. But I think it's a natural default today, right? I think people just do it because it's easy to do today, and I think that's challenging. I think people need to recognize commitment is one of the biggest things that we teach here at CEO Warrior. And from, from a divorced guy, it's tough to hear that from me, right? Commitment is such a powerful thing. And then, and then I have to— and I'm humbled by having to speak about it, right? Because I didn't honor some commitments, right? And I went through some challenges. And, and you said it right there, presence is everything. And so there was moments I was going through those challenging times where I wasn't present for my children. And that's why it's such an important thing for me in the future to be incredibly present and always be there for them when they need me for whatever that might be in the future.

And the cool thing is you, you can learn how to be present. It doesn't, you don't have to go meditate on a mountain. You don't have to do any self-help crap. There are actual skills that you can learn and master in literally 6 weeks, 8 weeks that, that completely change and transform your life.

Yeah, I mean, for me it was just, you know, and I'm sure I haven't really done the, the, the— for written out the formula of what that looks like for me, but, but in all reality, I have really made it a point, you know, when I'm with my son, when I'm with my daughter, to, to really stay present in the moment and not miss the opportunities of conversation, um, and, and let them kind of take the conversation where it needs to go for them, because it's not about Well, that gets me to—

that gets me to one of the— one of the most interesting questions that I always ask people like you. How important is listening in your business?

Oh, listening is probably the singular hardest thing I had to learn and the most impactful thing that I could actually deal with. And, and, and some of— and Caroline's one of the employees that's been here forever, and Julie's been with me for a bunch of times, and, um, they recognize that I may not have been the greatest listener at times, and, um, that's created some of my greatest failures. Not listening to people and understanding. I mean, look, as a coach in the business world today, I have to be unbelievable in my listening skills because that brings out the skill set that I have to coach and train people to the next level. So if you— and, and like, look, I love some of the things that I read and went through some of your things and went into the listening stuff that you have there. It's really profound when you can develop the, the listening habits. And look, I'm an in-house sales guy and I could talk anybody out of a sale if I just don't shut my mouth. But in reality, like, my easiest sales came from just listening. They give me all the things I need to know and all the things they want. I just have to learn how to listen. And, um, you know, my father always told me that I'd be a good litigator. I know you're, you're a practicing lawyer. My father, my father was a lawyer and a judge, and so he told me I'd be, I'd be a good litigator. The reality is, is that I probably wouldn't have been because I didn't listen as much as I should have as a younger man. And I believe it kind of slowed my progression down, being a pro, not thinking about listening. I always thought about talking because I can shoot the crap with anybody, right? And so I think that is, that is really, if I look back on some of my greatest failures, it's because I wasn't really listening the way I should have been.

Well, Mike, don't feel bad because what I've learned over the years is that listening is a skill that has to be taught. It's not something that we, we just intuitively pick up. Up. It's a specific set of skills there. You can learn them quickly, but if you don't learn them, if you don't have a master teaching you how to, then you'll never really achieve great listening. And I learned this. I had the same problem that you're talking about as a trial lawyer. I was arrogant, full of myself, and good. I was really good as a trial lawyer, but I didn't connect with people very well because I didn't know how to listen. And I finally Finally, I left the trial practice because it was no longer my calling. And I went back to school and got my master's degree in peacemaking and conflict studies mid-career. And that's what changed my life.

And yeah, that's exciting stuff.

You know, I'll just tell you how powerful it is. The skills that I teach, we use in our Prison to Peace project where we, in Prison to Peace, we go into maximum security prisons and train people serving life sentences how to be powerful peacemakers, mediators to stop prison violence. 6 months. And the first skill that we teach them is how to listen. And we're all over the world now in terms of the project has expanded everywhere. But, um, here in California, we've had something like 6,000 of our students released on parole. Not one of them has reoffended.

That, that's awesome.

And that's because they've learned these skills and they've learned the importance of listening.

Boy, if we could teach the rest of the world to listen, what would, what would, uh, what would evening news be like? It'd be boring. Yeah, for sure. I will tell you, I will tell you, my father was somebody. My father was a politician, and my father was a lawyer. My father was a very, very intelligent man, and, um, he liked to talk, and boy, he could hold a conversation. And my mother was a very quiet, stoic woman. I'm one of 7 kids, and so you could imagine she had a lot of people talking to her, right? Her skill set of listening, as I look back on life and I think about, like, like, where was the profound moments in my life? My mother just being that guiding light for me. And most of the time she didn't say a word. She just let me present all my crap. And then she would just give me these, we'll call them mic drop moments of brilliance that were maybe 5 to 10 words long. But yet I just spewed out a dissertation on how horrible my life is. And she would give me 10 words of brilliance and all she did most of the time was listening. And when I look back in life, I look at how profound that is for me today, and then, and it puts me in a position to want to be more like that. Times it's tough, right? Because you don't have— I don't have the, the discipline all the time to always listen to everything because I want to move fast and go fast, and not everybody's at my speed, so I don't mirror everybody so well. Um, but man, I tell you what, my greatest successes and some of my biggest challenges have come from not being a listener or of being a great listener.

Yeah, I call it listening other people into existence.

I love that.

When you can listen to another person into existence, you're giving them a precious gift. And the beauty of it, it costs you nothing to give it.

Yeah, I love it. I always used to, I always used to tell a lot of employees, when you would give them, when you would ask them questions, sometimes they're answering it before you ever finish. And it's like, do me a favor, I'm going to ask you a bunch of different things and I don't want you to respond.

At all.

I just want you to take it in. It's a tough thing to learn that, right? Because we're so in, we're so quick to like respond, like even on Facebook, just give an answer real quick, like it, do this, do that. It's that instant gratification thing, I think. But learning how to be a great listener is really profound.

Yeah. One more question for you.

Yeah.

What's one thing about Mike Disney that we would never know, unless he revealed it to us.

Wow. One thing about Mike Disney that you would never know unless I revealed it to you. Hmm. Sheesh. So I am— wow, I'm a pretty open book, which is tough. So I don't necessarily know that there's a whole lot that I haven't told people about myself, or at least been incredibly transparent about with people. I will tell you that some of the biggest challenges with me come from, as, and I'll kind of take my career as the example, right? So being in, being a COO, a lot of people will say, oh, you're incredibly pro, you're, you've done great things, you've progressed, you've escalated, you've been given all these great titles and all this stuff. I still think I think that if, like, I still get controlled by my emotions a lot. I think for me and myself, while I might not voice some of the things that are in my head, I'm still that guy. And, you know, I try, I do a lot of things to kind of understand my emotions better and try to influence other people's emotions. I think my EQ, if that is a term, I think I'm pretty sound there. But there's moments in times where emotion just really makes me see red and I have to really disconnect from everything for a while, to really kind of formulate a better opinion. And I'm really working on that. Even, even at my level, that happens all the time because, like, look, there's people in our world and, and that want to be part of our world that just bring things to you that are so elementary, it drives you nuts. And so sometimes for me, it's hard to get there, right? You kind of have to do that. So I think, and I don't think that that's a mystery But I, I don't know everybody knows how volatile it can be for us, for, for myself, that I hear some things and I literally have to walk around the parking lot, take some breaths in, and then come back in and have a conversation around it. So whatever the discipline you have to kind of avoid the immediate impact from your emotions, that's the thing that I've done. I've learned to escape and come back.

Very good. Well, Mike, I really enjoyed this conversation. So much for taking time out of your busy day to be with me.

Yeah, I appreciate being here. This is a really great talk.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team.

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