90 - Revolutionizing Out-of-School Time Programs with AI with BellXcel's Lauren Sanchez Gilbert

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes.

So let's get started. Lauren Sanchez Gilbert, welcome to Listen with Leaders. You are the CEO of BellXcel, found at bellxcel.org. Thanks for being here, and let's start off with a quick question. Give us your backstory. I, to me, it's fascinating. New Mexico to Massachusetts, there's got to be a story there.

Well, first, Doug, I've been looking forward to this conversation after researching some of your work, so, uh, I'm also honored to be on your program. Uh, it was an interesting journey and an exciting one. You know, the, the usual what lands you in another state is often school, and so that's what it, what it was in, in my case as well. Came out here and started— I was teaching in New Mexico, came out here and started in Worcester Public Schools in special education and realized that, you know, transitioning from there to another district as an administrator and really realizing that I wasn't sure I wanted to do that for the rest of my life, although it's super rewarding. It's really challenging, as you know, to be in a school system. And so I was looking for ways that I could have you know, affect change outside of the school system but still stay within schools. And that's how I found Bell at the time. It's called Bell, not Bell Excel. I started off as a vice president there, and then, you know, 6 years later became the CEO.

So tell us about Bell Excel.

We are a platform that is an end-to-end solution for the out-of-school time space. So when I got to Bell Excel, you know, we were trying to do this replication model through direct service, going from site to site and location location and trying to grow that way. And I thought, we have a really awesome solution. But the way we're trying to scale is not effective. It is too costly, too expensive, and too slow. Can we build a platform that can take all this evidence base and take all of the great learnings we had over, you know, 30 years and scale without the brick-and-mortar approach? And so when I became the CEO, you know, I put forward that thought and that plan to the board, and we made a huge pivot because, you know, we didn't need to be scaling our evidence ourselves. We could scale it through others.

And is Bill Excel a nonprofit?

We are a nonprofit.

And how— where's your funding come from?

Uh, it's through revenue and through philanthropy. So it's a shared revenue model that's been highly effective for us. You know, our goal has been all these years to increase the revenue side. And the other, you know, positive side note to moving towards software and really almost functioning like a for-profit has been that we have finally been able to achieve more revenue through, through sales than we have through philanthropy. And that creates a longer sustainable process and vision for us.

Who are the end users?

The end users, it's really a business-to-business model. So the end users are YMCAs, Boys and Girls Clubs, school districts, churches, anyone who is doing or providing services to children outside the school day is our end user. They then use some of the, you know, online enrollment forms or the curriculum to instruct children, but they're the final step. But our end partner is actually the business that's implementing the program.

So you're providing with the management systems and curriculum and development, kind of one-stop shop.

Exactly. Also, in our experience, I was just talking to a colleague about this. You know, we'd only had Arleigh when we did direct service, and it's called Arleigh. Our software line is called Arleigh because we saw you're pulling— when you were doing direct service, we would have some software solutions, some spreadsheets that we would use for attendance. We would then use another type of system to try to communicate with the families, and we go over here for, you know, another enrollment piece. And it was overwhelming and highly ineffective. And so when we were thinking through this platform, it really was important for us, especially given the time constraints in the sector, to have an end-to-end solution and really mean it, which means professional development and curriculum and measurement, not just the traditional management features.

So how, how far and wide are you spread out?

So we are now in 36 states. I could be wrong because it changes regularly. We've had a when we pivoted to the software as a solution, the SaaS model, we had a 350% growth rate to give you an idea of how much it changed us. So I used to know every, every partner everywhere. And I tell people, I feel like we've arrived because I don't anymore. I know quite a few, but not all. But the spread has just been incredible. And as I told you earlier, I'm from rural, you know, New Mexico. And so for me, it's been important to provide a solution that you can break those barriers of not having access because of geographical location, being too small, or not having enough critical mass for people like us who have an evidence base to come into. And so it's just been overwhelming to watch this, you know, what was a dream at one time become a reality.

And so you have, you have institutions and schools and organizations all over the United States subscribing to the system so that they can be more efficient in delivering educational services to children.

Right, and it's all evidence-based. You know, we've long in our 30-plus years history been dedicated to make sure that what we're putting out into the universe is based on actual facts, that's based on evidence that shows that it's effective for children. So everything in our platform is very intentional, down to things like that you wouldn't think about. You know, like we're about to launch a payment system. The reason that matters so much is that a highly organized, uh, funding system is essential for children's outcomes because if the adults that are servicing are, you know, lacking funding or they're overspending or they're unsure, you know, how to actually spend their, their dollars or their resources, it creates an ineffective operational experience for the children. And so each piece is very intentional and very purposeful.

So what is it that gets you excited in the morning? To get up and get going?

You know, these days it's figuring out how to incorporate, you know, uh, all of the new artificial intelligence into our software. Uh, yeah, I'm a technology geek, fully admit to be one, but it's so exciting. There's a bit of fear out there about all of what AI can do, but it should be, you know, that, that positive fear that should push us to think differently because it can, you know, it can be such a catalyst for change as telling our team, imagine if in our system, if, you know, the artificial intelligence could help build the program without the people having to go in and do it themselves by just answering some, you know, quick key, key questions. They could start, the system could start building the program for the user. That to me would be pretty, pretty dreamy.

So, so you're thinking about a system where, uh, let's say a YMCA has a vision for a program they want to offer their kids, and they come in and they're prompt— they're given prompts to answer, and the AI takes all the material you've got plus all the material it can pull in from everywhere else and delivers their program for them.

Exactly, exactly. You know, and, and you, you only know what you know, but if it— if they give you prompts and starts, uh, you know, from there, you know, keeps asking you additional prompts based on how you answered, it could pull in information that you wouldn't even dream to go access because you didn't know.

Wow.

So there could be some real power. You know, we're some years off, but we've got to start somewhere, which is starting with the vision and dream of it.

Well, and so you have people in the organization thinking about this right now?

We do. Yeah, we've been— we've been doing some, you know, leadership conversations of what this could look like, and we've been having conversations with our entire employee base and just had one with our engineers who are, you know, the best thinkers around this, of what are even some baby steps that we could do to start bringing this in. So even that kind of concept in, you know, like the chatbot type piece being one of the first steps.

Yeah, I have— I've had some mixed results with ChatGPT. In some ways I really like it, in other ways I'm scared of it because it's so wrong. You know, so yeah, you got— I think like anything else, it's a tool that's got to be used, but you have to know how to use the tool.

Absolutely.

You know, it's a good result.

Yeah, exactly. You know, there is always— it's in its infancy, and it's crazy to think of how powerful it is even though it's in its infancy as a collective, ChatGPT, um, of what, what it will be. But, you know, I always— we're always thinking, how do we stay ahead of it? You know, because we know it's coming. So to try to deny that that's going to be a part of our future is only going to hinder us later, you know. So if we start thinking of ways that we can be, you know, ahead of the game, it will serve us in the long run.

I have an off-the-wall question for you.

Do you know—

have you ever met JD, uh, JD LaRock?

No.

Have you ever heard of Nifty, the network for teaching entrepreneurship?

I have not, but I'm going to now.

Yeah, I, I, I just had him on as a guest as a podcast this morning. He's in Boston, you're in Boston, you guys need to meet. So I will set that, I will set that up.

Um, down now.

Yeah, the, his, his website, the website of his and his, his organization been in business for 30, 40 years like yours. Uh, nfte.com.

I not know him.

Okay, there is a synergy there. They work His organization works with middle schoolers and high schoolers, teaching them all the skills they need. And they work in low-income, low socioeconomic demographics, teaching kids how to become entrepreneurs, full soup to nuts on how to do it. And it's embedded within the school system. So the regular— it's embedded in schools, so it's regular classes. And their organization teaches teachers how to teach this stuff, and they actually have entrepreneurial classes. And they really get some phenomenal results. So there's a— you guys should, you guys should at least know each other.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I love— we love creating partnerships like that too, because sometimes some things that are used during school hours are also a great place to also put them is in the out-of-school time setting. Yeah, and sometimes you can go even further with it. You don't have some of the same constraints that you may have during the school day, so that's That would be a great connection.

That's why I love doing this work. So tell me, what is it, what is it that's unique about you that you bring to the table?

You know, I don't know if there's always anything super unique about, about myself. I think some of it is, you know, really understanding, you know, who I am as a leader and what my strengths and weaknesses are. And then my greatest superpower is surrounding myself by highly talented people who know a lot more than I do. So that I can be properly informed and really delegate out to the experts who know what they're doing, no matter what that is in our business. So it could be on the engineering or product side, but it also means HR. It also means finance. It's really bringing together people in a team around a common cause and vision and create passion for the work and also good life balance in the process.

There you go. And what do you see your role— you're a CEO. What do you see your role in, in Bell Xcel? What's your role as CEO?

You know, one of my main roles is really around being that main visionary person, yeah, of really thinking through what are— what is our overarching strategy? Where do we want to be in a year, in 2 years, and then keeping an eye on the, on the 5 years? And then how do we articulate that to others so they understand our collective here and now, but also our broader vision, especially when you're bringing in investors or funders into the mix, is one of the main roles. And then, you know, creating a culture and environment that supports that. It always starts from the top. And we even feel that when we work with schools and organizations, the places that have the greatest experience are the ones whose leaders are standouts, you know. And so I feel like that is also part of my role, is making sure that I'm leading from within myself and then within the organization to make sure we have an external huge presence.

This podcast is called Listening for Leaders with a reason, and that's because as a lawyer turned peacemaker, I think listening is the foundational skill of life, and it's not taught, and it's a skill that everybody should master, but most don't. How important is listening in your work?

It's crucial. You know, you can't function without that. At the end of the day, you may not be having the best ideas. In fact, sometimes as a visionary, you get too visionary. And I have absolutely done that. You need to have people there and hear them when they say that, you know, maybe, but not right now, or maybe that's too much of a stretch, or, you know, that is also something that we can do, and here's all the ways that we can do it. But if you're not truly Hearing, you know, it's not just listening. You got to hear and swallow and process and be okay with sometimes feedback you don't want, you may not want to hear. It's absolutely essential, you know, and not always great at it. Sometimes you're not always the, you know, have the time you need to slow down sometimes. So that to me is something I always try to remind myself of. Maybe I'm not listening as well because I need to slow down. A little bit.

Yeah, I find that I have a term that I— a phrase that I use when I'm teaching called listening others into existence.

Oh, I like that.

And what I have found in all the different levels that I taught, whether it's in maximum security prisons or in the Congressional Budget Office where I've trained senior analysts how to de-escalate members of Congress, is that when you listen to another person and validate them at a very deep level, so they really feel heard and seen, they will follow you anywhere. And they can disagree with your decisions, but they're okay disagreeing with your decisions because they'll still support you. And I think that's really a critical— that's a critical piece that people miss about listening, I think, is that we all have a deep need to be heard, and nobody— and we never feel like anybody listens to us. In a deep way.

150% agree. You know, I was just recently talking to my daughter about this very topic of, you know, active listening because she's a teenager.

And you look, you know, you look too young to have a teenager. Thank you.

But she is, you know, there is that piece of, you know, even if you don't agree, you can validate the other person's point of view. And I remember this in my early years when I taught of And I taught in a special needs program for children with social and emotional disabilities. And it was so important then, just intuitively knew that I needed to be a good listener to those young people. I knew I needed to validate how they were feeling in order to then effectively move forward. And so it stuck with me throughout life, even interacting with my child or at work or whatever the scenario, you have to validate the other person. Their point of view. You don't have to agree, but it matters, and, and that can allow you to then, you know, move forward and grow from there.

There's some, there's some really interesting brain science, uh, neuroscanning studies that came out in 2007 out of Matthew Lieberman's lab at UCLA that shows that when you listen to people's emotions— it's called affect labeling— when you listen to their emotions, you actually inhibit the emotional centers of the brain and reactivate the right ventrolateral prefrontal cortex, you literally calm the brain down in 90 seconds or less. Wow, really powerful stuff. And that, that was— that skill, and of course many others, are the foundation of our Prisoner Peace curriculum that we use when we're going into prisons and training incarcerated people how to be peacemakers. Um, it's just a skill. It's, it's, it's— a lot of people talk about it, but very few people really know how to practice it. And that's why I want to talk about it, the importance of it in everyday life. So what conversation did you have with your daughter around listening?

Well, her sometimes lack of, but—

She's a teenager, come on.

Exactly.

Are we setting our expectations too high?

It was like the conversation, she just started her first job. And so it was a, you know, conversation, she was nervous of, She hasn't had to interact with the manager before and in that setting. And what if I have a customer doing retail that, that's going to be upset, you know? And so we were going through, if you often listen and validate and make sure they are feeling heard, it can de-escalate a situation quickly. And, and also with your manager, same thing, you know, make sure you're actively listening and, you know, repeat back what they're saying if you're learning something new to really demonstrate that that you are in fact in the conversation. And then finally, put the phone away.

That's pretty solid advice. So where do you see BEL Excel going in the next 10 years?

Yeah, I would love to see us continue to make a bigger impact in the youth sector, continuing to serve children in out-of-school time. We are in 36 states. We had a huge growth spurt, but we're still only impacting, I think, less than 2%. Of who we could potentially reach. So I would love to see us continue to grow and flourish and be brought into anyone who is serving children in an out-of-school time venue, whether again, your camp, parks and rec, schools, churches, no matter how small or how big, there is a place for evidence-based program in any of those settings.

How do people find out about the program?

We are doing a huge campaign right now to get the word out about Arli, you know, and doing webinars, We're doing things like this, you know, really trying to put out the word that there is a solution that is end-to-end that can help elevate your program without them having to search all over the place and pulling in separate answers everywhere. We, we can help them move forward.

And I presume that it's an affordable platform, especially for smaller organizations.

That was absolutely essential for me is, you know, how do we create this to be the most affordable you know, platform that there is out there that has all of the diverse features that you need to run a program. So it can vary on, on size, but it's really affordable and below most of the comparable type of programs, which by the way, there isn't a comparable. Um, and I don't even say that just in jest. Most management systems are just that. They're just management where we have all the family communication and the curriculum, you know, the ways to measure and the price point is below that of a management system.

Yeah, because I looked at, as I looked at Arleigh, it looked to me like you have the backend administrative stuff, but you also have the frontend delivery of educational material.

Exactly. And what the evidence shows is that when you pair the management system with those learning systems, that is what actually equates to the great outcomes for kids. You can't ignore either one. And a lot of times what happens in programs is they're really good at the learning side and the delivery side, and they're struggle on the management side, and because of that, it actually decreases results for kids because they don't have, you know, the energy to be thinking about the management side. So this just pairs the two nicely and allows them to then ignore all those pieces that you don't want to think about when you're doing program and just concentrate on the kids.

The other thing I saw that piqued my curiosity was that you've designed the platform so that it's accessible regardless of technology.

Yes, so there is.

How does that work?

Well, you do have to have, you know, if you're going to do the enrollment forms or all those pieces, you do need to have, you know, a device of some sort. It can be done through a mobile device, you know, an iPad or a computer. Ideally, when you're doing the heavier stuff, you're going to want to use a computer, but as far as the curriculum goes, that piece where you're doing the implementation with the children themselves, that is actually paper-based. We went through and thought about, do we actually make that, you know, only online? And there is an online piece too, but in the out-of-school time space, and especially those that are serving low-income children, they too end up being lower resourced. And so they didn't— they don't have technology. And so this push of making everything digital is actually leaving people behind. So that the— for us, the happy medium is an opportunity to have both. So that if they have, you know, limited devices, they can still do the pieces, but also then still have those paper-based materials to deliver to the children.

So, so an organization will put in, like, put in an order for a module or a—

They don't even have to put in the order. Once you have a subscription, you have that access. The only thing, only time that it is different than that is if they're, um, and then they print it. So they print it out themselves, the enrichment curriculum, or they can use it digitally online. The only time that it becomes a separate kind of order is when they're ordering the academic curriculum, because that is a much bigger lift and has a lot of authentic text with it and workbooks. That is the only time that it's different.

I mean, it really is truly a soup to nuts platform, isn't it? I mean, it covers just about everything.

You can do that academic curriculum all the way to payments, and if you're a camp that's doing archery, you know, there's a solution for that too.

And what's the age range that you— for the children that would be supported by this?

It's pre-K all the way up to high school for the enrollment and those pieces, but for the curriculum, if they're doing curriculum, that ends around 8th grade.

8th grade?

Yeah.

Okay, preschool through 8th grade, right?

Right. We, you know, haven't ventured to below preschool, and high school tends to be more very content-driven and course-driven. So our management system can support that in summer PD, but the curriculum then at that point is left to the educators.

So if people want to— if people are watching this podcast and want to learn more about how to— about BEL Excel and Arleigh and the platform, they go to the website? Is that the easiest way to They can.

And for, for the website, it would be— I mean, for the software, it'd be arlie.com. But if you want to know about our other entities, which is Sperling Center for Research and Innovation, and that's consulting and evaluation work, that's— you can go to the Bell Xcel site. And then we have a new initiative called RISE, which is— I fully so excited about— is actually where we are offering grants and, and an institute experience for those that are serving low-income children where they can receive funding from us and they get, you know, they can apply and receive free products and services and quite a bit of coaching. And so that we just launched and focused on rural and those serving Indigenous youth.

Wow.

Yeah, so very exciting.

That's a full plate.

It, it is, and that's why you need a, you know, a phenomenal team so that you can do all of those things.

How many, how many children do you think you serve?

You know, um, we're overarching, we've served, you know, well over half a million, and annually at least 100,000 plus.

Wow, that's amazing.

And growing.

And growing.

Well, good for you. Thank you.

It's exciting.

One more question before I let you go. Um, What's one thing about you that we wouldn't know about unless you revealed it to us?

Hmm, let's see. Uh, I am an absolute research geek.

Really?

I like to research the research, not always necessarily the, um, the topic, but I love learning about the methodologies and, and ways that people are approaching research. You know, my favorite book is Damn Lies and Statistics. And I genuinely highly recommend it. It's not as boring as it sounds, but numbers can tell a lot of different stories. They're not as solid as people think, depending on what infrastructure you put around it. So I'm always fascinated on the research that people are using to get to their outcomes.

Wow. Interesting. Well, thank you so much for your time today. It's been really an amazing conversation, Lauren. And I really appreciate the chance to meet you and talk with you. And I know my listeners did too.

And I truly appreciate it already learning that I can connect with somebody in Boston and, uh, get to learn more about the de-escalation.

I will make sure that you and JD hook up and we'll set a time to meet.

Awesome.

Well, thank you, Doug, so much. I appreciate it.

You're welcome, Lauren.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Wanna know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.