96 - Establishing Unique Engagements Through Experiential Marketing with Hunters Point's Kelly Markus

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Kelly Marcus, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the owner, founder, and chief visionary officer of Hunter's Point. And the website for your incredible business is hunterspoint.co. Welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you, Doug. Thank you so much. It's so great to make some time and happy to talk to you. And I know that you've been doing a lot too, so it's like, thanks for making the time to get together.

I just really was impressed by our interview in Authority Magazine and So I thought you'd be perfect for the show. So I'm glad you're here. So let's start up. First of all, you are in a very unusual space. You do massive events and you— that's pretty much been your whole career.

And little ones too. And little ones.

I know, but it's the big ones that are impressive, right?

A little bit.

Yeah.

So tell us, tell us a little bit about your backstory.

Oh, so I— well, first off, if you actually looked in my journals when I was in college, I was actually saying things like, not like, I want to be an Oscar-winning actress. That would be lovely, by the way. But it was things like, I want to be an artistic director for a regional theater. I always— I didn't know enough at that time, but really I was already speaking myself. And when I graduated from NYU, one of the first things I did and I am not from money, but I told my, my mother that I was like, I have this idea and I want to start my own film and theater production company. And part of it was I had seen one, business owners had a lot more control, and two, it was a way for me to start flexing in things that I was really passionate about, like live performance and film. And some of the things that me and I got a bunch of other NYU grads and we would collaborate on a variety of different projects. So a lot of off-off-Broadway shows. But one of the biggest things that we produced from that was something called the Fat Shorts Film Festival. At the time in the '90s, short films were definitely being made by plenty of filmmakers and also student filmmakers. And they were kind of calling cards, but no, the general public wouldn't see them. So we got a theater and we would make it so that people could pay a $5 fee and see this amazing curated night of, of short films. And I adored the fact that with short films, it's in some ways just again, like another great performance or theatrical piece where you go on a ride. You know, you could be watching something that's a horror film to like a documentary to an animation. And I loved the audience reaction. So we produced that for 6 years and I was doing things like getting sponsorships from HBO and Kodak and Remy Martin and so many more before I ever really knew like everything about sponsors. But that was Those are some of the early dabbling before I even really knew that you could make a career doing this. So I did then stumble into the film business because I thought that I— well, I definitely needed to be making more money than the scrappy way I was living. And I was working in independent film and I was working on the film and it was an amazing independent film featuring Christopher Walken and Cyndi Lauper, and called The Opportunist by an amazing, wonderful producer who was a great mentor, Tim Perel. And but when I would go on set and I would witness these amazing performances, you know, it's like, cut, quiet, moving on. And I'm like, no, you can't. You're not doing that. I knew after a while, and I definitely was getting Tim and others were like, you've got to check out Kelly. They were opening doors and opportunities, and there was a very big producer who had a huge movie series with a big star, and they were looking for an associate producer. And, um, I turned it all down, and I just— I actually turned down like making it in the like there were a couple big opportunities. I'm not going to say who these people were, but lovely, some lovely people. But, um, and I went to a headhunter and I was like, you know, I just, I just know that I don't want to keep being in the film industry. And she was like, your resume is crazy. She's like, it's kind of all over the place. And she's like, and you do have this production experience. She's like, I have this company, it's kind of a weird company. It's not like a lot of things that we see. And, um, that was when she introduced me to— and I did the interview, and that was for my first, uh, corporate communications and experiential production company. And they were doing large-scale events for companies like IBM, uh, a ton of pharma, and American Express and General Electric. Wow. And, um, I started out as a coordinator. I was asked, do you want to go into production? And I was like, nope, because I kind of felt like I already knew it. So I went into creative. I, I chose specifically to go, all right, let me explore sales and let me explore creative under this agency. And I really feel like there were a lot of things there that, um, gave me that Swiss Army knife to help me see how these pieces go together. Um, but it was also the first time I started to see there was this whole world that you could synergize videos that could move people, but then there's the live audience and bringing in, um, live performers in a variety of ways. And then even how you how are you showing hospitality to those guests? How are they dining? How are, how are the, you know, let's not just make this a coffee break. How are you, how are you really making that innovative? Um, so that was how I stumbled into this, to this world and this, this business.

And you started Hunter's Point a year before COVID Oh yeah, but yes, and clearly I did not have a magic ball.

And if, if you said to, like, I I think this is a really good point that you're making me think. If I knew then what I knew now, like if we said you can do this, but you're gonna have this thing and, and something that also doesn't tell you how, how it's all gonna turn out. It just says there's gonna be a global pandemic. And you think you should take a job.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, venues shut down everywhere, but, but you were able to succeed because a lot of your stuff was outside.

Yeah.

So we're able to get people protected and keep, keep separation.

And yeah, I mean, that— and that's, I think, such a great point. If I had taken a job and there were a— I— and when I left Refinery29, I had so many people calling me about opportunities, and I'm very flattered, but I also knew— I was like, if I don't do this, I'm gonna kick myself. And I really was on the fence. And then it was almost like just do it, you know. And it was just do it. So I started, and, um, and I did actually have a project, um, but, um, and it was a plum one. Major, major music talent, can't tell you who she is, and an immersive experience along with an, a, a very humanitarian award ceremony. And we were working on it for about 2 months, and then they were like, oh, the budget's cut. Now, this is early in 2019, so it was like they paid all of our fees, but they're like, the whole thing is probably all of our budget for this. And this was a million-plus dollar project. So I thought I was going to be set. I thought this is a great way to start off and probably a great thing that happened because it was like, don't take anything for granted. I was hustling. So I already was hustling in 2019 to replace that work. By the end of 2019, we have multiple projects going on. I was hiring employees, and we had— and I think I can now say this, and this is, this is public enough— is we had been asked to be on a competitive bid for a project for MasterCard, and it was for a gorgeous, um, like Times Square and really gorgeously designed, thoughtful, uh, something around International Women's Day. And I felt so honored to even, you know, be invited to bid on it. And then with the teammates that we had, we won the bid. And, you know, there was like, okay, some refinement of what's going to happen. And this is going on through the holiday of 2020 into, uh, the beginning of 2020. And I'm thinking, oh, Yeah, we're gonna kill it this year, and I'm gonna have some press releases, and this is, this is gonna be spectacular. And I was also, I was traveling. We had a trade show event for LV, um, out at the Consumer Electronics Show. So I was at CES in January 2020 when everything broke. Yeah. And now, mind you, I have this weird little blip on my career where I had an opportunity years ago, many years ago, to work at the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative. So an international NGO dedicated to an affordable, effective vaccine. And I got to be just an assistant to the general counsel and the COO. But it was a great opportunity for me to work on a cause. But let's just say, how did I ever know that working at a global NGO on infectious diseases would come in so handy? Fast forward to this part. So when I heard things like they've shut down the city of Wuhan, I was like, that is That is not cool. That is like, that's like big red flag, you know? But I was like, okay, well, we'll see, you know, like we'll see the pandemic response. Like I knew the playbook that was supposed to happen. And, you know, so CES was great. There were other things. I was also in LA that January working on another conference. And, um, yeah, and then we had just won, uh, something for a launch for a champagne event. And then it was like, by that time you're in like February, March, and it was just like—

I know I was— I teach— I teach graduate school at Pepperdine, the school of law, and that I teach typically a winter intensive over the New Year's week, and I had 3 Saudi students from the Los Angeles Saudi consulate, sick as dogs. Turns out they had COVID. I'd never been so sick before in my life. And my wife, it was that first, first week of January. It was crazy.

I'm glad you're okay.

Oh yeah, I'm big and tough. So, so this is really cool. So what is it today? Now you're— you, you push through the pandemic. You're growing and growing and growing. What is it that gets you really excited?

Um, wow. Well, I mean, let's say this. I'm really excited about how things are right now because the whole thing where they talked about pent-up demand, it's there. It's 100%.

Wow.

Um, I, in fact, I have a, uh, another, uh, colleague, um, who they approached us about helping them out a little bit with their event and curating some artists inside a gallery event recently in New York. And it was around the AWS Summit. So, you know, help them out a little bit, happy to do that. And, you know, one of the big things that I've been, and oh, I should say, so I show up, you know, I see Rich Tu is the artist there, but talking with different people and the exec VP is talking to me and he's like, thanks again for meeting Rich. And he's like, you know, we haven't seen turnout like this historically and getting people to come to our events. And I was like, this is how it's done now. Like, you know that whole thing about people going to the office and people don't want to be in the office all the time and they want to have that balance. Well, this is the thing. It doesn't matter. It seems like what— well, it probably does matter what it is, but so many things I'm going to events are now where other parts of the business are getting done. People don't want to go to do a capabilities presentation in there. It's more like, actually come to this gallery and see how we've manifested it, um, or how are we talking about things but around this. So That, and that's just a little taste of it. So then when you think of, um, what's happening in terms of what is coming back, culinary, music, um, it's so— and then, yeah, and then technology engagement, it's huge.

This is so amazing because, uh, my— we live— my wife and I have 10 acres in the Central Sierra Nevada. In Central California, just south of Yosemite National Park.

Oh, beautiful.

And we got an invitation from the Central Sierra Historical Society to— they're calling it the Black Kettle Cookoff or something. And this is going to be up at Shaver Lake, which is up around 6,000 feet. And it's an event. And for whatever reason, we just decided, let's give some money to the historical society and go do this event. It's a charitable event. But I would—

you would just—

it struck me that you're right.

People are not going back to the office, but they still want to socialize.

They still want to get together. And if they can find events that resonate with them, they're going to meet other people that are like them. And it gives people like you in roses, right?

Humans are social creatures and we want to be together. I swear, even sometimes the like most hermit-y person I know— and I know some hermit-y people— They really, you can see just engaging with people and it's lovely. And then when you add in all these other, like, I'm an experiential, like even during the pandemic.

Why don't you explain that a little bit?

Yeah, I was just about to say experiential. And that's hilarious too because like you could say years ago to some people experiential and they're like experimental theater, what? You know, they like, I'm like, no, I'm not rolling around on the ground, you know, pretending to like be a mime. Nope. Experiential is working with the senses. And so it's an experience. Experiential marketing has been that part where, as opposed to out-of-home marketing, digital marketing, print ads, this is the actual physicality of showing up And experiential marketing is marketing that, bringing it to life through the activities, through designs, and through the senses. At Hunter's Point— and this is probably— this is because of my theater training— I really double down on the senses. It's about touch and taste and smell and the feel of things and During COVID I remember, because we did not— I, I mean, there was a shutdown. We always had a work from home policy because we're on the road anyway producing events. Um, but you know, we were all on Zooms and so much more. And I remember thinking at one point, this is silly. I can't be talking about experiential marketing and live events when I'm flat-screened on a, on a, on this. And I was just like, you know what I did was my mother is really into floral, um, to like, her thing is doing floral arrangements. I took all these leftover silk flowers and I built my own 3D flower wall. So I was like, screw filters, like, that's what I'm doing. And people just even when I would show up for a meeting, suddenly it was like they would see that and it'd light up. And then we would start doing things where if it was like, okay, let's, let's do a coffee date, we might create a little package that we would ship to people. And then it was like, wait to open until we're for our coffee date. And then you would open it up, and then it was like how you could have your drink and something that you're touching, you're smelling it, you're tasting it, That's experiential.

Wow.

Okay, so what is it— you've got so much energy— so what is it that's really unique? What is it that's unique about you that you bring to the business?

Well, hmm, I mean, for me, I think this, this part, like my love of theater and taking this. And so I had a lot of training in Stanislavski Method. Now take everything that you know about method acting. I'm not Daniel Day-Lewis, I'm not, uh, you know, trying to act out of form. But what I found when I found the synergy between live events, experiential marketing, and this training is that the sense memory techniques that Stanislavski was always working with is he was rooting into the truth. He was saying that when you're touching something, there's nothing, you know, if I touch this, I'm— there's, there's no denying this, right? And you smell something, it's rooted in truth, it's real, and yet it's channeling something through you. So it was really important for me and my team to say, how are we rooting this and using these techniques into the work that we're doing and saying Now we're not just gonna make something beautiful and it looks good and it feels good and it smells good. It's how are we now thinking about that from a journey from an attendee and then using that to channel what's going on to get the positive response? Because I might say to you fried chicken and you have like, maybe you're like, I hate fried chicken, it's greasy. It's, you know, like, I just— chicken's boring. I think of fried chicken and I think of my grandmother and I think of— it starts like, I think of Sundays and how she would host people like family over. And I'm thinking nostalgia and it starts going through that. We take those pieces and then what we do is we design it in such a way that whatever your unique experience is, my unique experiences, we're trying to channel that. But what is personal for you, and it may be a little bit— it's going to be different than what it is for me. So we're trying to get into those details because I think there's still a lot of stuff out there and it looks really, really good. But I don't want our things to just look really good. I want at the end for people to go, Guess what? We just signed in 5 new accounts. We just made 120 business connections of exactly the right kind of executive that we were targeting. I want the results to look just as good as how everything came to life. That, I think, because a lot of people and a lot of agencies, I think they're great at making things look good. I just don't know if they're doubling down on the results. And the goals like we are.

So it's interesting that you would use the word journey. So in all of the events, your thinking is, I want to take the participant on a journey from the time they arrive until the time they leave, and they're going to be a changed person in this next 2 or 3 hours. Am I getting that right?

That's a bit of it, right? And it might be like, how are we getting them to just subscribe to something? How are they, you know, going to go and they're going to get in their car and they're going to drive to that place and they're going to make a purchase? Or how are they going to go home and become an advocate for something and start to socialize this with their family and friends? There's a lot of different ways that things can manifest in terms of what the results are. But yes, every single engagement is an opportunity to, to really interact with people. And I, I think that that's what I think is unique about live events, that you, you just can't, you just can't beat real life. I mean, URL is great, but IRL, man, feel pretty, pretty good down here.

Um, so I know the answer to the question, but I'm going to ask it anyways because I want to kind of elaborate on it. What's— how important is listening in your business?

Oh, it's, it's essential. So you think back to, um, I talked about my training, right? So, and I went to conservatory at Tisch School of the Arts. And, um, yeah, drama, drama, theater, theater. And, um, one of the Meisner techniques— so there were a variety of different techniques but in Meisner Technique, a huge part of it is listening. So if you've ever seen some actors practicing and they're going, okay, my line is, you know, okay, and they're just trying to like memorize, right? And then you can almost even see— and this is, I would say, for maybe some, some rookies Um, but in techniques like Meisner, it's almost like letting go, and instead you're not focusing on your lines at all. You're listening to the other person. So one of the things I found was that when I let go of trying to remember my lines and just tried to be so manifested in that character or what we were, what we were doing. What am I here to give, get, or do? And focusing and listening to the person I'm opposite, I found that the answers came naturally. The lines came naturally. And it's a similar thing, I think, in life. If we're— we have to hear what it is. If somebody's coming in and saying like, all right, our job, what we're coming in to do is we're doing a launch event. Our number one thing is to drive PR, and we're also looking for a way to cater to some of our major investors, maybe some of our executives, other partner organizations that we're working with. And I am coming in and I'm like, oh, you're doing a launch event? Well, let me show you actually how big. We've done some things where it's got like this really big screen, and here's how this— here's how this one— I'm talking all about me. And I'm talking all about like, like launch events when really to me it's an opportunity to be like, okay, let's talk about the media. Okay, are you— let's dive into that. So I'm taking everything that they're saying and I'm starting to go, let's, let's unpack it. But I'm leading and going off of them. We actually just submitted, um, something, to a potential new client and where it, you know, we weren't just saying, hey, thanks for an opportunity for us to show, you know, showcase our work. It was like, we want to make sure that, you know, we plucked out some things because what we heard from you was, you know, the PR is this and you want this and you're looking for this, to really cite that out and also say if there's anything you feel like you're missing, It's almost coming back and saying, hey, Doug, I want to make sure what I heard you ask is to make sure that I'm not assuming, because we're, we're always having to do— even you and I right now, we're having to do that balance between listening and preparation as well, right? It's one of the other reasons why it's one of the things that we often do here, and I learned it from you know, some amazing people on podcasts where they would say one of the best things you can do is get 2 people in the room from your team. Don't go in alone and don't let one person feel like they're the only one at the mic because other people can— well, I might be thinking of what I have to present, other people might be picking up on, look at that body language. Listening is not just even with the ears, it's The whole body.

That's right. That's right. I'm curious, um, in your business, there's probably some pretty high-pressure moments and long hours. How do you deal with the chaos when people get emotional, they get upset, they get angry, they get frustrated? But you've got to be seeing a lot of that.

Yeah, well, first off, I have to—

your clients are the ones that are going to be going the most batshit crazy, probably.

You know, it really varies. Okay. And you know what? I don't blame anyone for where they're at.

No.

Especially sometimes when you have a big event, a lot of money, a lot of goals at stake. When we work with a lot of corporate and consumer brands, they might be putting a lot, a big budget away. So the pressure is on to deliver. And so I respect that. I think I will also just say, for me, it's had to come over time. When I look back sometimes at how maybe I, when I was in my 20s and maybe as a coordinator, and I could kind of look back at myself right now and be like, oh my gosh, Kelly, you were such a princess. Really would have annoyed the crap out of me. And thank goodness I had such wonderful mentors and other people. So again, mentorship I think is huge. But first, and this is where I also believe there really is a beauty in being where you're at, do not ignore the building block years of your career. I genuinely think I'm better at my job now because I learned from my mistakes, but I also learned by having some other great people who were like, but you gotta do it this way. You know, you learn sometimes by observing, but you also learn by having people that you trust and that you respect and they respect you show you the way. So, you know, there's the, um, there's kind of like the emergency, you know, 911 operators. Good producers, good event people on site need to have that calm in the storm and level-headed. I think one of the best ways to deal with that is preparing. I am not, and no one on our team is, one of those— and there's a lot of them out there— Bless you for this, but anybody who's in events and are like, events are so dramatic, well, you know, that last minute, and like, it's like, it's cool, but it's like, oh my gosh, and the craziness of it. I'm like, that's not us. No, that is not us at all. That's called bad preparation. Yeah, I would rather work a 22-hour day in order to be prepared.

That's right, right. It's so refreshing to hear that. I'll just tell you a quick story. I was a trial lawyer for 22 years, civil trial lawyer, and I prepared for every hour of trial. It was 8 hours of preparation. That's, that's how I basically figured it out. But I had partners who procrastinated in all their preparation because they needed the adrenaline rush to overcome the tedium of preparing for trial. I, I couldn't do that. I was so prepared that I had notes on. What do I do if something happens that takes me totally by surprise? What am I going to do if something comes up that I don't even know what to do about it? How am I going to respond to that?

Well, let me ask you, because again, there sound like parallels there.

Absolutely.

When you were going into trial, did you ever feel like this is like I'm about to run a marathon, but it's mental? It's, you know, and I've got to be nimble on my feet because there are things that could happen here in real time. I mean, I have met— I now mentally prepare.

Oh, yeah.

In addition to— and I even get ready. And you should know this, but I am not a morning person. In fact, we have a huge thing. And I know that, like, there's all these things of, like, people who are really successful and the morning people and they want their morning to themselves. You know what it is? I'm a night person and I feel like I can get more done. And I oftentimes feel like I'm more creative at night.

And that's right, because many of your events are at night. So that's right.

There's our weekends. And exactly. So for me, part of that is I've now learned the skill where there's this thing that I just start doing to mentally, emotionally prepare, physically prepare. That when it's like, all right, you've got load in, it starts at 11:00 PM, you're not going to be out of there until 11:00 AM tomorrow, and then you're going to get a 4-hour break to snooze, and then you're going to come back on site, and then you're doing this, this, this, this. Like, I've done things where I know what's going on for me for 62 hours straight. And, and that's what's— and I can do it. But part of it too is I'm going, by Wednesday this will all be over.

It's been really great. One more question for you. What's the one thing about you, Kelly, that we wouldn't know about unless you revealed it to us?

What's the one thing? Um, What's the one thing? Okay. I am a risk taker. I am a big risk taker.

Say more about that.

I would say so. I, and I've learned, I've learned a lot from it. I did. One of the things I did was I created something called the Crown Point Festival. And I, I definitely— it like, it was incredible. It was 22. It was like 222 or 225 artists, some international, most in New York City, but some from around the country. 22 nights of straight programming, sponsors like Anheuser-Busch, Whole Foods. Nokia. And, um, but I, I used a lot of my own personal money to also— because I believe so much in that. And I lost some of my money, um, and, uh, and I— there were times I was not eating, um, uh, I actually had been a pescatarian, and I went to, like, I wasn't eating. And so I was like, you know what? I need to eat something. What would I be excited to eat about? Bacon. I'll eat bacon. And that's how I became a carnivore again. But that I've come to learn, and I don't often talk to people about the risks I take, is that that learning experience, it's good to know that I'm a risk taker. Right? Like, you've got— in order to do some bold things, you're gonna have to take some risks. And I think this is one of the reasons why I can be a business owner. And I know that even during a pandemic, like, I've, I've learned so much about myself, and I decided, nope, you're not— you're gonna keep trying, you're gonna give it your all. Um, but I've now, over the years, I've also come to learn about how to be educated on those risks. So I'm not falling into something where I'm going to, like, lose my house, you know, or, or, or be in that kind of risk. So it's good to still take risks. And I don't think I've talked enough about like the risks that I have taken, but that literally they have— I mean, Crown Point Festival changed my life because that it was after that I started becoming a senior and executive producer in this world.

Well, there you go. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Kelly. It's been an absolute marvel talking to you. You are an amazing woman.

Oh, thank you, Doug. Thank you for your time and, uh, for your service that you do by putting out this podcast. It's information for all of us. I love it.

Absolutely.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the socials. Social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up, ratings, and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.