97 - Leveraging Technology in Building your Personal Brand with Em Dash Content Studio's Sarah Loughry

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Darryl Lopri, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the owner— that would make you the CEO— M-Studio, which can be found at M-Studio.com. Contentstudio.com.

That's right. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Got it right. Thanks a lot. We were talking before we started recording that you're a content marketer, and I got certified in content marketing, which was really interesting. Tell us a little bit about your backstory. How'd you get started in the business?

Oh boy, uh, are you ready for the most nonlinear story ever? Because that's, that's it right there.

Um, that would be interesting.

Right out of— oh, so many, so many turns. So right out of college, I started working for a radio station. And I was working kind of like in the, in marketing and promotions in a radio station, very ground level position, you know, this, but it was so much fun and definitely like a younger person job for sure, because you're on the go all the time. And ended up while I was doing that, somehow I started appearing on a morning show regularly, and I ended up co-hosting a syndicated radio morning show across 3 states for 5 years.

Wow.

So, yes, yes. And so that was a— one of those, uh, even now I look back and think, how did I end up there? Like, I don't even know how that happened. You know, you're You're on a billboard or on the back of a van and you're introducing a live show and you're just like, I have no— this was not part of my plan at all. But I was still doing marketing and I was still working the promotion side on the back end. I was kind of doing them both at the same time and ended up once that ended the show, because it's like any other show, it's only there for a period of time before you jump the shark or whatever happens and it's over. And so by that point I'd built up such a rapport on the marketing side and built up a lot of promotions and created some really cool things that I got promoted to the VP of Integrated Marketing for the entire radio corporation, which was really exciting and what I thought I wanted at the time. And within probably a year of that position, probably 6 months when I was like, this is not at all what I want to do. I don't like this at all. I, it was, um, I was no longer on the ground floor of things. It was more office politics and it just was not, it didn't fill my cup at all. And I didn't feel like I was providing any value either. I didn't, I didn't really have a lot. I wasn't given a budget. I wasn't given, uh, really the ability, any autonomy at all. To do anything. So essentially you could say I, I hit a glass ceiling and it was so thick I could not break through it. I just, I couldn't. And I am someone who, I think if you're doing something for 40, 60, 80 hours a week, you should love what you do. I wasn't willing to settle for that. So I started looking and ended up working at an e-commerce startup remotely before remotely was cool. You know, now everybody's doing remotely and it's just the normal thing. But at the time it was very new to me. And I was working with organic marketing because it's a startup and startups don't have a lot of money. So I was focusing on trying to drive traffic in the best way possible, which is free. And that led me to the blog. And what happened from there was one of those moments where kind of a light bulb happens where for me I'd wanted to be a writer truly to my core since I was a kid. And you can look through all of these stories that I wrote when I was like 10 years old, 11, 12, these short stories that I always read. I was writing them all the time, and I just had convinced myself that I wasn't a good writer and that I would never be able to make it as a writer. So it just wasn't for me, and I ended up going into marketing. That was my reason.. But when I got back into the organic side and I really had to focus on content a lot more, it forced me into the writing and I loved it. And I started seeing success from it and I thought, wait, I can probably do this maybe. And so I started freelancing on the side and I started, you know, doing all these other like side projects and started seeing success there. And, um, again, in a very nonlinear way, I ended up becoming the editor of a digital marketing agency. And so I started off very low for them, just dealing with a couple of blogs, but then I ended up as their senior editor, taking over every like blog that they had for the, the agency and managing it, helping with SEO. And through that process I learned so much more because it was an environment that fostered like evolvement and learning and, you know, all the things that I needed. They gave me the autonomy to spread my wings and to build out processes. And so I was able to do that for them. And I just got so much more confident and was able to, to write for all different sorts of clients. I mean, I was writing for a— my hardest one was a data analytics pharmaceutical company, which— yes, yes, yes. You can imagine. I still tell them, I tell my team that I still talk to and I'm free, I'm like, I left bits of my soul in those articles to this day, cuz it was just so challenging, but also rewarding. What happened was I, because I'm always wanting to grow and evolve, that's just part of my being. I'm, I'm never really, I'm never complacent. I'm always like ready for the next thing to try. So I started doing some freelancing on the side again while I was doing all of this. And what I discovered was there's a major gap in the market out there, and that was that, and you and I talked about this before, that often SEO and content, you would think that they always go hand in hand and they should go hand in hand, but they don't. They're a lot of times siloed. So you have SEO over here and people are optimizing or telling you what keywords to do or supposedly writing, but the reality is it's not good quality content. So you have the SEO portion that'll show up on Google, but not with any quality to it. And then over here you have really beautiful writing, great, compelling, engaging writing, that's not optimized, so Google's never gonna see it and neither is the audience. So I came up with M-Content Studio as a way to combine the two together so that people can establish themselves as thought leaders in their space, but also appeal to Google. And so people can actually find them. And so that's led me to where I am now.

I hope that's a long way of explaining it, but yeah, that's an, it's an interesting journey. And as you said, nonlinear.

So nonlinear. Yes.

So basically what you, what you do today is your clients will come to you. Mm-hmm. And they will want to post typically in blog format, uh, an online content piece that they need to have beautiful writing and, and, and it's gotta be, it's gotta be search engine optimized.

Yes. Yes. So they'll come most of the time because I say this too with any content marketing because every, there is no, there is no blanket one way to do things. It's in terms of, in terms of content strategy there, it's not like one person, everybody should have, it's when you look up like how many blogs should I be posting? You know, some sites will say 11 to be optimized. You know, some sites will say 4 once a week. Some will say 2 a week. The reality is it depends. It depends on your space. How competitive is your space? I mean, what are you writing about? How, you know, all of those things kind of come into play. And so it just depends on the person. And so one thing that is important though is keeping your site updated with consistent content because it forces Google to come back and keep reindexing. So a lot of people know that they need to have it. They just don't know what that means. So they'll come to us and say, can I have help with— I need things published to my site on a regular basis. I just don't know what to do. And so we form a strategy based on that and then we write for them as if we are them. And then we actually post it to the site and then we'll track it afterward just to see. So we're kind of an all-in-one solution, which is another thing that I saw a gap for because a lot of times, you know, you can find a writer, you can find a strategist, you can find somebody that specializes in SEO, but you can't find all-in-one.

Right.

So we try to be that for people.

What do you think ChatGPT is gonna do in your, in your market?

Take over the world. No, um, I, I do think it's a useful tool. Um, I think it will be something to possibly worry about in 10 to 15 years when it's really smart. Right now it's not enough yet that for what we're doing specifically we have to worry about it, um, because it can't get personal and it can't get the, the branding that you really need it to get as much as you put in like, this is my tone, this is what I want. You know, you could specify all those things, but it's still gonna come from a machine at the end of it.

I, yeah, I did an experiment over the weekend. I, I decided I wanted to write a, I did, I, I wanted to look at, um, how do you have a conversation with your kid about the internet?

Interesting.

And because I've, some people I'm working with, my, my expertise is in, uh, is in emotions and deescalating strong emotions, having difficult conversations.

So teenagers make sense.

Uh, yeah, 8 to 12-year-olds. And how do you—

that makes sense.

How do you introduce your kid to the internet? And so I did all the research and I set up the outline. I put the outline in ChatGPT and said, give me a, give me a 2,000-word article. And it came back and it was okay, not great. But then I found certain segments and I said, give me more on this and I want this to do this. And then it came back with some really amazing stuff. And I was able to put the whole thing together. You know, for me, a 2,000 or 2,500-word content piece typically would take 4 days. I did it in 4 hours. Wow.

That's amazing. I mean, and so in, in that case too, it, it works. Yeah.

Now you have to be careful with ChatGPT because there's garbage in, garbage out. And ChatGPT is only as good as the stuff that's out there right now, cuz it's not generating new stuff. It's just taking what's out there and recombining it.

That's right. And you do have to check for misinformation. So that's another thing too. If you're, if you're talking about pretty generalized things or you just want something to post on your site, so people who aren't as focused necessarily on a regular basis on getting like quality, like really putting their voice out there unique and they just need updates to their site, can it work for them? Absolutely. Now if you're in like the health space, fintech, if you're in for, I probably wouldn't recommend it because you're right, it takes further research and deeper into it. It because then you're gonna be double-checking every stat that it uses and they might not be relevant. So there's that with it, but it can work and it can work because internally we're not ones to, I, I recognize, and actually I worked with, um, with a client in the Scrum space, which is all about dealing, being agile, that the whole point. And so I wrote and, um, I co-wrote and edited a lot of pieces about mistakes companies made, how they could have been better, like Blockbuster, for example, how you don't go out of business and all those things. And, and so I've been determined. I'm like, you know, instead of looking at it like, oh, ChatGPT is not good, let's just move on. Like, we should really find a way to embrace it and use it in our business because it will be, if it's not super relevant right now, even though it is, but if it's not like taking business from us yet, it might in the future. So we should really find a way to work with it and just understand it a little bit better. So we're starting to use it for things like outlining, like just the basics. So to give us an outline so that we can pass that on to our writers and say like, here's an outline so that we're not spending as much time. So little things like that to kind of get us started.

But yeah, I would say the reason that it worked for me in this instance is because I have deep subject matter expertise, right?

So you knew.

Yeah, that makes all the difference in the world.

Yes, it does. You were able to go in and immediately see what fit and what didn't, which a lot of people don't have the expertise to do that.

And if you were to ask me to do a ChatGPT blog on invertebrate paleontology, I'd get lost.

That's right. And you know, you know what though has popped into my mind? I'm like, man, where was this when I had reports to do in the 11th and 12th grade? Because man, I would have just pumped in a couple of things and let it spit everything out at me like a 3-page report and been done with it. I don't know how parents are getting away with not— their kids not doing that right now.

I think the trick, the trick And it's gonna, it's gonna require a complete change in education. Now you're gonna have to teach your kids how to think. The ChatGPT will do the hard work of getting it, getting it out on the paper, but now you've got to learn how to edit and be and critically analyze what you're writing. And in more advanced education, you're going to have to have footnotes or endnotes. You're going to have to have your research stuff. So it, it will save time, but it will also require a much deeper level of thinking.

And see That's a way— that's exactly what you described is a way to embrace it where you're not fighting against it because the change is inevitable. It's going to happen. So why don't we find a way to embrace it and learn from it in a different way?

Exactly. So what is it that gets you excited every morning to get up and get going?

Honestly, I love what I do and I'm so grateful because I really was, even when I was in the thick of doing the morning show and I was in the thick of like all these different things, I was never, um, because I think complacent satisfaction, happiness, they're all different things. And I never felt true happiness in a job. I was always like ready for the next thing. Like, what, what am I gonna do next? What do I want to do? You know, how would I? And so I, once I started this business and really started going for it and ramping up and scaling in a way, I am just so grateful because I really love what I do. And that started with the last position with the last agency. And, and that's because That started, one of the reasons is because I, I just genuinely enjoy editing. I like writing. I like taking a piece and making it pretty, like an ugly piece and then putting it all together so it looks pretty and makes more sense and sending it into the world. I love doing that. But a big part of it was I started in a very heavy corporate environment that was very, um, traditional. And when I say thick glass ceiling, even in that way traditional, I mean, I, it, I just did not have a lot of opportunity. Did not have a voice. And it was like the— I, you know, you get 5 personal days a year and God forbid if you get sick for one more extra day, like that type of thing, you know. And so when I started at this, at the agency, they were completely different than anything I'd experienced. It was built on trust and that was where it started. And so they were just like, you want to create something, create it. You want to learn something, go learn it. Like, and I just was able to grow so much more in that environment. That I got addicted to it. I was like, this is great. I can do things. It gave me the confidence that I needed to be able to go on and create my business. And so now I'm just, to be honest, every day I'm just grateful because this is something that I dreamed about doing. I didn't know in what capacity I would do it, but I'd always wanted to start a business and run a business. I just didn't know what that was. I was kind of waiting for it.. And so I keep looking at it every— it's one of those pinch me things where I'm just like, I'm grateful to be able to run this and have people, you know, I'm on a podcast right now. I'm, I've done multiple articles for, for magazines this year. It's just, it's insane to me that I'm sitting here. And so I'm just, I'm grateful. And I think I use that too in my everyday business. So when I'm talking to my clients and when I'm, I view them as, they're also businesses trying to grow. They're also people trying to grow. So I like connecting with them on a deeper level and helping them and being honest and just giving them the education that they need to be able to do these things by themselves, you know, so they don't necessarily have to need me or somebody else. It's probably a long-winded way of answering, but yeah.

And what is it that's unique about you that you bring to the business that nobody else brings?

I, I wanna say a couple of things. One is, I mean, the, obviously the, the all-in-one type of solution is big because you don't find a lot of that where we'll go from keyword research and helping you formulate, you know, a plan to creating the strategy, to executing the strategy, to posting it. Like we do all of that. We have that capability. And we do it for an affordable price. So one of the big things is that I actually happened into, I would love to say that it's what I targeted from the beginning, but I happened into it, which is I started working a lot with small to mid-size businesses. And those are startups because I realized I joined women's only groups, like founders, people just starting up their business for women, especially because You know, women founders, a lot of them fail, and only 2% of us make it to $1 million a year in revenue. 2%, which is absurd. And so I start looking at those businesses and I'm talking to them and I'm realizing they have no ability to provide, to, to afford something like this. They don't have the funds available to them and they need it desperately. The only people that can afford something like this are bigger businesses. Cause when you're talking about SEO, a lot of times they'll charge you $2,000 a month for any sort of like just any sort of a retainer. It's normally around that. And so I created a whole package that is extremely affordable for those businesses so that they can afford me and I can come in. So I'm right now I'm working with businesses that are like just getting started, just trying to ramp up, and I'm trying to help them, you know, get to that point. And that I will say is probably the most rewarding. That's what I like to do the most because we're just not, and I've, I've had people tell me that we're, we need to raise our prices and we're hurting. We need to, and I've raised them a little bit, but I feel if I can make a margin, I don't need to gouge people. That's not what I'm here for. I really wanna help people. That's, that's my biggest thing. So that's probably the biggest differentiator. The other one is transparency. I'm gonna be honest from the beginning about what we do, why we're doing it. If we have a bad month, what happened? Like, I'll explain where the SEO went. I'll explain if I feel like maybe you need to go a different route. I'm gonna be honest about it cuz that's the other thing. I mean, I think some marketers get a really bad name because others try to sugarcoat things. And when you're dealing with small business, you can't afford that.

Right. Hmm. So This show is called Listening with Leaders. I know the answer to the question.

Yeah.

Uh, but how important is listening in your work?

Vital. Because if you do, especially, oh my gosh, if you, that's where it all begins and ends for us. So on our onboarding call, the whole onboarding call, I think it's an hour long normally, and I talk for 5, 10 minutes of it. Because we have to write for you. I have to have an understanding of you well enough that I can put it on your website and someone will think that you wrote it. And so I have to know everything about you, the way you say it, why you say it the way you do. I mean, listening is so important, and that's just from a work perspective. But take it to the meetings afterward. What if you're trying to convey to me that, um, you can't afford it right now, or, or, uh, you want to take a different approach. Or because a lot of times you get people, especially when you build a relationship, that don't want to tell you in a way, or they don't want to. So you have to listen, really listen to when they're talking so that you can make note of these things and make it easier, make sure the communication stays open. Super important.

One of the, one of the things that I teach is how to listen to emotions rather than to words.

Yes. Yes.

Because that's where so much, that's where the meaning is.

Yes.

People can say stuff, but what they're really meaning is what they're really feeling, their emotional experience.

Yes. And that take, and it's, it's hard what you're saying. I mean, that's hard to do too when you're constantly remote like this in this world, you know, unless you know the tricks. Yes. Well, I need to know more tricks then. I'm always open for evolving.

So quick back there, De-Escalate, how to calm an angry person in 90 seconds or less.

That's amazing. Normally I just retreat into myself.

Oh, well, we'll have a chat about that. We can change that. So where do you see yourself going in the next 10 years?

Honestly, I— two places. One, I want to continue to grow and help people. I want to continue to scale. I've got just such a great team, and all of us on my team, we're a small boutique team, but we're all writers. That's where we started. So I'm teaching them the SEO, the technical side, because anybody can be, you know, anybody can learn that technical stuff. But to be a writer, to be a true writer, that's where the magic is. And so I just want to continue to grow in that team and with what we're doing and help more people. That's the big thing for me. And the other thing is, by that time, I want to own a property in Italy.

You sound like my sister-in-law.

Oh, I, I got addicted to traveling to Europe years ago, and I always come back to Italy. And so I've been— yeah, a dream. If I can do that, if I can do that next 5, 10 years, I'll be living life.

One more question. What's one thing about you? What's one thing about you, Sarah, that we wouldn't know at all? We wouldn't even have a clue about unless you revealed it to us.

Ah.

One thing? Um, okay, well, you know the radio thing, and that's always one that gets people. Okay, uh, how about this? I was a featured story for winning an essay contest on Good Morning America when I was 10 years old.

Good for you!

Nobody knows that. I never reveal it because I'm so endlessly embarrassed by the video of it. Um, but I was 10 years old. I wrote, I wrote an essay on race relations and the importance of it, and I won a local contest, and it made its way to New York, and I got featured.

Wow.

Crazy, crazy.

I know, I know, it's crazy.

Well, this has been a lot of fun, Sarah. Thanks for joining me, really appreciate it.

Thank you, thank you for having me. It's been great.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up, ratings, and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Wanna know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.