98 - Nurturing Tomorrow by Empowering Kids for Health and Wellness with Gryt's Caroline Kusnetz

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Caroline Kusnetz, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the co-founder of GRIT, which can be found at gotgrit.com. And GRIT is spelled G-R-Y-T, not G-R-I-T. And I know there's a story behind that. Welcome to the show. I'm looking forward to it.

Yes, Doug, thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

So GRIT, for those of you who are listening, is a website that is devoted to young people who are going through puberty. And all I can say is, and I know Caroline's heard this many, many times, I wish there was something like this 60-plus years ago for me, because it is a wonderful, wonderful project. Tell us a little bit about it and your backstory.

Sure. Um, again, thank you for having me. Grit is a teen and tween empowerment brand. It's focused on helping, helping kids who are in the puberty adolescent phase of life develop foundational health and wellness and important foundational skills so they can become resilient and fulfilled adults. My father always talked about the magic of compound interest as it pertained to investing in money, and we believe the same thing for learning these important habits early, that if they do learn them early, that it really has a significant impact on kids' lives today. Their lives as adults and really on a future generation. And that is our mission, to give kids a sense of agency and control over their own futures.

How do you even come up with the idea?

You know, it started with, you know, I'm a mother of two kids, a daughter and a son, and when my daughter was entering puberty, it was, you know, I just learned around the basic hygiene skills that you're not born knowing certain things. And I should have already known that because she was about 11 at the time. And I went to the store to find, you know, healthy products for her to wash her face. So it started with a very basic, you know, let me teach her hygiene because hygiene is front and center during puberty, the smelling and the hair, the hairiness in odd places. As well as, um, you know, learning how to take care of yourself, things that, that really parents were doing for them before that period of time. And it expanded to this broader range of skills through my work as a functional medicine health coach and, and working with a lot of adults, seeing that I spent so much of my time helping adults undo all the bad habits and then lay down new habits. That what happens if we avoided the whole bad habit period and we just started teaching our kids about the good habits that they could take control over and have, again, agency over their own bodies and overall wellness, both physical and mental.

How's the project coming along?

How's the what?

How's the project coming along?

Oh, it's amazing. We launched officially on Mother's Day 2023, but it was a long road to get there. Started the business right as, as COVID was beginning. Um, the amazing, uh, luck that we had. But it gave us— it afforded us time to really get the overall business model down, do a lot of market research with both parents and kids to, to identify what the needs were, and then work with a contract manufacturer in California to develop products that were really very specific and focused on kids at this age. We have a board of advisors of pediatrician, dermatologist, and other experts who also weighed in on the education component of what we're offering kids at this age.

And, and since— let's see, so it's been 4 or 5 months since you launched. How's— how are the numbers doing? How are they trending?

So we are Currently selling mostly direct-to-consumer. We have one physical location in New York City in Pop-Up Grocer, but we are in active negotiation with two other retailers that we hope will come to fruition shortly. We've gotten some amazing press, and that was really, you know, the first part of launching a business like this is awareness and getting your name out there. And you know, having people really recognize the brand and connect with the mission. And then, you know, from there, we've had some great traction, and I'm super excited about Q4, what we're going to be announcing.

What kind of reaction are you getting from the kids?

So we have been very deliberate in how we view our audience. And the voice that we want to use with them. And, and in order to achieve what we wanted to achieve, we say that GRIT is a company for kids by kids. So we've established what we're calling our T-suite, so a play off of a C-suite in, in a regular corporation, where we have kids ranging from 13 to 16 who are truly executives in our company, and they are driving content strategy, retail strategy, engagement strategy, as well as developing content so that we ensure that we are really reaching the audience, that we're speaking to them in a way that they're gonna be receptive. Because one of the things that happens during the period of adolescence is kids start to turn off listening to their parents. And so we knew that they didn't want more parent, We wanted the voice of the brand to be that of an older brother, an older sister, a mentor, someone who recently went through this period. It's a shared human experience. So we want to destigmatize anything that comes along with when we think about puberty. But we didn't want it to be, you have to do this, you must do this. That kind of sounds like a parent. So kids are really receptive because it's really their voice. And a lot of, a lot of what we're creating are their ideas. And we're always— in addition to the T-suite, we also have a very extensive youth advisory board who we are constantly interacting with and actually the T-suite manages. So there's not only helping them with entrepreneurial and business skills, but also just mentorship, because that's really important to us. It's not just about selling products, it's about supporting the next generation and helping them fulfill whatever dreams are important to them.

So as you think about it, what is it that gets you really excited in the morning to get you up and going?

Ah, the, just the mission that we have, which I think is so powerful and has been resonating with both kids and parents because I think during COVID more than ever, uh, kids felt out of control. Kids felt like they didn't have any, um, sense of controlling what was happening in their environment, what was happening in schools, what was happening with friends. And we want kids to know that they're the author of their own lives and there are so much that they can control, you know, now and looking into the future. You know, you can't read, you know, a magazine or go online and not see the statistics around the challenges of being a kid these days. You know, whether it's the obesity epidemic or the degree of anxiety that is just, you know, so prevalent. I see it with my own kids, their friends, and, you know, again, we're talking to a lot of kids every day, um, as well as just loneliness. So we want to be part of that solution, and to me, that's a super exciting mission and something that's really meaningful, again, beyond selling products, right?

What is driving all of this? I mean, the teenage years are anxiety-producing enough, if there ever is such a normal time. But what's causing the amplification, do you think, of anxiety and isolation and loneliness?

You know, I hate to say it, but I think social media and technology is absolutely driving a lot of those, you know, negative trends that we're seeing. And as part of being part of the solution is we're teaming up with Common Sense Media, who's really a leader in the space of, you know, not saying technology doesn't have a role because we all know technology is not going away, but having a tech-positive relationship and again, learning those skills at a young age and being aware of what technology is doing, both positive and negative, you know. So when you're scrolling a feed, and your mood changes, having the awareness that, you know, there was something that you saw that, you know, registered in your brain. And, you know, most of the time it's not positive, whether it's causing an additional sense of inadequacy during an already difficult time, or, you know, exposing you to something that, you know, triggers an unsettling feeling. Social media, you know, definitely contributes in a negative way. And I think there's so much research now, even by the social media companies, that validates that negativity. But so Common Sense Media is doing a lot of education. And again, we're partnering. I'm on the advisory board in New York, and it's an important relationship for us in terms of our education and how we support kids.

You know, I had never realized the scope of the problem. This weekend I wrote a 2000-word blog on how to parent kids in the digital age and basically how to have a conversation with your children about the internet. And I had never really thought about it before, and I was really surprised that there are things that parents can do. They can have really frank talks with their kids about and use the internet as a teaching tool and as a development of critical thinking if they're willing to spend the time to do it.

Which is—

So what, what else did you learn? I'm curious.

I learned— I, well, I learned that, you know, depending upon the age of the child, I mean, you— I learned that you really want to start talking to your kids about the internet usage around, around 8 years old, uh, 8 or 9, because at some point in that age they're going to start wanting a phone and, and you don't want them to have access without obviously controls, but also understanding that the internet is a digital community that has its safe places and its dangerous places. In the old days, we would go out and play, and our older brothers and sisters, to your point a little while ago, would tell us, "Don't go over there. There's an old drunk who could really mess you up. It's perfectly safe to play football over here." And you kind of get the lay of the land around where you lived because your older siblings and friends would kind of clue you in. And you learned what was safe and what was not safe, and then you learned from experience. You don't have that experience on the internet. And so now parents have to use that analogy and explain to kids, there are places that are safe, there are places that are dangerous.

How do you know?

What, what do we mean by dangerous? And, you know, would you give somebody the key to your house? No. Then you don't give out passwords to anybody. Would you talk to strangers who you don't know? No. Then you don't do that on the internet. Do Do you, you know, you go to places that are not age appropriate for you, they're dangerous. Just like you don't go into the bad parts of town or go down that dark alley, you don't do that on the internet either. And you're just constantly teaching and reinforcing. And then the other thing I learned was, you know, or which is really my expertise is how do you take a difficult conversation and make it transformative? What do you do with a child who ends up, in a, in an inappropriate place on the internet, and how do you handle that? What's— and so I wrote about here are the steps that you should take in terms of having that conversation. I, I also thought about, you know, get— you engage the child. So what will be age-appropriate for a 4-year-old? What will be age-appropriate for a 6-year-old? For an 8-year-old? For you, you're 8 years old, what's age-appropriate for you? What would be age-appropriate for a 12-year-old or a 13-year-old or somebody who's in high school? And get the child to start seeing that there's different types of different places on the internet that are age-appropriate and get them to think and then to be critical thinkers.

Do you—

don't— do you believe everything you're told? Do you believe everything you read when you're on the internet? Do you believe— are you going to believe everything you see and read and hear? Use judgment. If it, if it sounds screwy, it probably is. Use your brain. And so I wrote the whole blog that kind of lays out all these different things, topics that parents can talk to their kids about.

No, I love that. I'm gonna read it after the call.

I'll send it to you.

I, I mean, the, the one challenge is, is that there's a lot of things that are not in their control. And, you know, I say to my daughter, you know, there are billions of dollars spent on how to keep you connected to this phone for as long as possible.

Right.

So even if you are a person with the most amazing sense of discipline, It's still really hard and they're stacking the cards against you because they are, you know, lever— leveraging brain chemistry to keep you addicted. And it is 1000% an addiction.

That's right.

And it's not just—

these social media companies have floors of psychologists.

Oh, floors.

Do nothing but figure out how to make this more addictive. They don't call it that, of course, but that's exactly what they're doing.

You know, and even, you know, there are statistics on pornography and how much pornography a child is exposed to before the age of 10 on the internet. And it's not that, you know, my kids wouldn't know where to go for pornography or be looking for it, but it's a couple clicks and you are at some place you shouldn't be. And it's not— it's unfortunately, it's not that hard. It's not that hard to find it, find things that— find things that are not appropriate for you know, even me.

My theory is that there are a lot of parents that don't have the intelligence, education, or discipline to educate their children properly about internet use.

You're right.

And that's going to be a real problem.

And the other side of that coin are parents who are addicted and— Yeah, so they're modeling.

They're modeling.

I mean, let's talk about empathetic listening. You know, they're not even present to have a conversation because they're like this. You know, I am not throwing stones at anyone because I see how it happens and I am, I can be guilty of it myself. I wish that wasn't the case, but yeah, we have a box, we lock up our phones.

Yeah, I leave my phone in my office. My phone is work. It's not play.

But you're asking, I mean, I think we're not going to find, we're not going to see the impact of all of this. For years and years, for years and years. And unfortunately, I don't think it's gonna be positive, at least in the short term. I think there's probably gonna be, we're, we're gonna have to hit some extreme even more so than it is today. And we'll do a course correct.

But there'll be a lot of pain and suffering in between.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we haven't even talked about the whole AI discussion, which, you know, I was in a, a Common Sense Media meeting yesterday And, you know, they're trying to get on the forefront of it, but it's like flying a plane while you're building it. I mean, the data, we don't even know what it's going to turn into. And then you're trying to protect your kids from this, this force that you, you don't really know what it is yet.

Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna, and I, I think people are gonna have to get educated about, like, when I look at ChatGPT, for example, it's a very powerful tool when used appropriately. But if it's not used appropriately, it gives you a lot of bad information. And I think Chappie Cheek, for example, can be a force for good if, if you are a parent who has the wherewithal to teach your kids critical thinking skills.

Right? I agree.

But if you don't, it's gonna be a mess. So, so let's get back to grit.

What is it?

What do you— what is it that you think is unique about yourself that you bring to the table that makes the project successful? What's so special? I know you got co-founders, so I don't want to exclude them either.

Well, I, you know, I have one co-founder. Um, my background was, was mostly in, uh, I was managing a large organization at Dell and at IBM. So I was— I've been in the technology space for, for many, many years. And when I was on maternity leave with my daughter, I was in a, you know, near-death car accident, um, that required, you know, many surgeries, learning to walk again, several years of therapies. And I had to kind of reinvent myself because I couldn't go back to doing what I was doing. I was traveling every week and now I had a newborn baby that needed my attention and, and I had a lot of physical repair to do. So I ended up becoming a functional medicine health coach and that was following my passion that I've always had since I was probably in high school of health and wellness. And, um, you know, also brain health because I had a traumatic brain injury and was healing myself from that. Um, so I come to Grit, you know, not just being a parent who loves their kids and wants the best for them, but also with a real passion and experience working with adults and seeing the profound impact on very simple things, you know, on movement, on mindfulness, on how you eat, And a lot of chronic disease processes start when you're 13, 14, 15, 16, like in your teenage years. They can see heart disease. They can see, you know, if you have high blood pressure, even you have a dysregulated sugar metabolism. It starts really young. And I think we can make a significant impact. So I think my passion, my experience, you know, help differentiate what I bring to GRID.

So how important is listening in your work? As a coach, it's obvious, but—

You know, listening is paramount to any relationship, and certainly a small startup that, you know, we're moving in many different directions and we're a very tight, well-integrated team. Of all, as I mentioned, of all ages. So, you know, we go from 13 to, you know, my age, which is, you know, I'm in my 50s. So it's communicating and listening to each other. You know, there's some mentorship to our younger team members to teach them some of these skills, but we're moving so fast that if we're not listening to each other, we're going to end up going in divergent directions and not be successful. And also we want it to be a place that people want to work, that people feel heard and validated, and that their opinions and thoughts matter. And again, with the, with the younger folks that we work with, we're building this company for them, with them, and we want to make sure we're modeling those important skills because that's part of what we're teaching as part of the business.

Yeah, you mentioned empathy before. Tell me, tell me how empathy plays in your work.

Well, I was, as I mentioned, I was a health coach for many years, and that's kind of foundational as a health coach, certainly as a mother, and certainly as a wife. But really, not just listening to what people are saying, but listening to how they feel and reflecting back where, where they're coming from to make sure that there is understanding when you're listening to someone. But it all starts like empathetic listening starts with being present. And I think that is often what's missing because we're so distracted back to our discussion about social media and our attention spans. We're so distracted that starting with presence. You can only have empathy from a place of presence.

I teach, I teach that kind of listening. I teach people how to listen to emotions. And one of the challenges that people have is because they're not emotionally self-aware for the most part, learning how to read somebody else's emotions and reflect them is very difficult. So what I've learned how to do is have structure, put emotion, treat emotions like data And then structure that data in a way that people can access it. And then once people access it, they're able to quite easily stay present and focused. It's easy for your mind to drift when you don't know what to focus on.

Yes.

But once you know what to focus on, then it becomes a lot easier. Um, but yeah, I think that— I think it's really important too. It's a critical skill. It's a critical leadership skill that doesn't— it gets talked about a lot, but not many people take the time to develop it.

Right. That's the thing. People talk about it, but don't actually practice it.

That's true with so many important things in life, right?

And I think foundational to that is also just a sense of curiosity about other people. I think people would rather hear themselves talk and give advice or share their own feeling or opinion and aren't curious enough about the other person's perspective and where they're coming from.

Interesting. I've got one more question for you. Okay.

What's one thing—

you've already revealed a couple of things that are a little unusual that I didn't know about, but what's one thing about yourself that we wouldn't know about unless you actually revealed it to us?

Um, that I completed an Ironman.

Well, you completed it.

13 hours, 52 minutes, 46 seconds.

Of pain?

You know, I felt amazing. I felt amazing.

Good for you. Congratulations. Was that after your accident?

That was not that far before it. And honestly, because I was in such great shape, I think, you know, I actually survived the accident because it was really a near-death experience. But being in good shape, prioritizing Physical health has always been important.

So, I mean, I'm 73 years old and I'm in the peak of health.

Amazing.

Yeah, I know.

I don't look it and I don't act it. In fact, I go to Pilates training in an hour.

I know. I love that. I love your, you know, your vibe and your passion for the work that you do. I, you know, that's very inspirational to me because I want to be working, you know, doing something I love. I don't even view it as work until you know, I, I'm no longer here.

You can't do it anymore. I know. That's a great way to look at full pour delight. Well, thank you, Caroline. It's been a great talk.

Doug, thank you so much. Enjoy your Pilates.

I will.

Thank you.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive a leadership leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up, ratings, and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.