Longevity & Voltage: The Electrical Secret to Health | Ep. 331

It's kind of like if you've been carrying a backpack your whole life, you don't know that the backpack's on your back anymore, right?

Right.

Or even though it's an 80-pound backpack you've been carrying, you just normalized it. Welcome everyone, Dr. Gladden here. I just had a conversation with Kyle Anthony Trautman, and he's a very interesting guy that's using Stephen Kotler's flow states and working through an entire process that he's developed to help people rewrite the script on their trauma. He's using an entire sort of flow state process. And you're going to find this a really fascinating conversation. It starts off a little bit abstract, and I keep narrowing it down to the point where I think you're going to have some real insights about this. It's really turned out to be a wonderful conversation, so I hope you enjoy it.

He went from saving hearts as a cardiologist to rewriting the entire aging playbook. Dr. Jeffrey Gladden believes 100 is the new 30, and he's got the science to back it up. This is the Gladden Longevity Podcast.

Welcome, Kyle, to the, uh, Gladden Longevity Podcast. It's good to be chatting with you.

Yeah, thank you, man. Glad to be here.

Yeah. So we're gonna be talking about a lot of things today, I suppose, but we're gonna be talking about voltage and basically the electrical kind of underpinnings of health, which is really a fascinating topic. We talk a lot about energy and we talk a lot about pharmacology and a lot about biochemistry and a lot about psychosocial things as well as how that impacts the entire system. But it's interesting to look at it through the lens of neural circuitry and voltage and optimizing that. In our world, we use something called whole body phase angle on an in-body to get an idea of charge that a cell is able to hold. And we feel like that's a metric of health. But I think you're doing something different. We also use EEGs, which of course are looking at voltage involved with PEMF, which has to do with putting energy into the cells and the mitochondria. But I'm really curious to get your perspective on all this. But how did you get started with this? Tell us, walk us through how you got, you got in, you electrocuted yourself and like, that's perfect.

No, I was, I was excited because I was like, my, my, my personality with like the geeked out stuff is gonna like clash perfectly well. So I'm excited because there's gonna be a nice splash of humor in here. But I just got started because my whole family was sick. My brother had type 1 diabetes. He had to get a double transplant. Back in 2014. My mom unfortunately is in the hospital currently. She's got 4 different conditions and my dad has some lateral issues stemming from preconditions that he has gone through as well. So for me, it was just the lineage of sickness and really going into the origin stories, like what are the origins, and then obviously health being one of the systems that we teach within High Vibe Polynomics. It was just obvious to really just take care of myself and be my own inner authority, when it came to that.

So were you also, were you part of the, of the sick in the family? I mean, were you also afflicted in some way?

Unfortunately, no, no. I've had, uh, you know, uh, some, some cases where I've had to overcome, like I went through a brain injury, uh, recently within the last 2 years. Uh, I don't classify that as a traditional sickness. That was just really kind of a crazy anomaly that happened, uh, due to, uh, an accident. But other than that, I have not been sick. No.

Okay, so you had brain trauma from an accident. Is that what we're hearing?

Yeah, it was, it was to just kind of COVID an origin story before we even get into the process of how I built the school. I just went to a traditional checkup to get a massage and my masseuse accidentally pinched my subclavian nerve, which rerouted the artery. And then I ended up getting an aneurysm from the medications that I took and then found out I had a brain injury because of that. And then it was a 2-year recovery process from that. Yeah, it was a wild experience. So not your traditional like blunt trauma, it was, uh, just kind of more like blood-infused and kind of more blood-induced.

Yeah. Wow, that's, uh, that's— I mean, I've had deep tissue massage before, but that sounds like, uh, you know, even beyond that, right?

Yeah, it was scary. One of the scariest things I've ever dealt with in my life.

But yeah, well, that's wild. So talk us through a little bit about the school that you've developed and kind of the, the underpinnings of it in terms of the science and how you go about thinking about things.

Yeah, the— well, the beautiful thing about the metrics that you use for finding the charge, we just use the observational metrics. And for me, obviously going through that little health scare with the brain injury, after doing the amount of one-to-ones that I was doing, I didn't know what was going to happen obviously with that condition. So we did all of our best to put it into a systemized platform for people to have more accountability. And And we looked at the American Standard of Training and Development about what it actually means to acquire or achieve said goal. And it just gave us this beautiful accountability structure where we could create essentially like mental dojo, like a gym where people could come in and go through our techniques, learn a couple of concepts as we're constantly educating through neuroscience and their studies coming out all the time. But they have a place to go consistently to go through our FOREVER framework just in case they have a tough time building out their own. Sequence of inner work, which is obviously part of energy literacy as well. But that was the main thing is having a base hub, having a curriculum, and then having touchpoints where people can come in and then just using those metrics of accountability so people could achieve exactly what they set out for.

Okay. So right now, this is all very abstract to me as I'm hearing you speak about it. So I'm sure it's abstract for the people listening as well. So let's try to make this a little bit more concrete. So what, What's the assessment that you're actually using? And then just kind of walk us through, you know, take us through it kind of like we're a new client, if you would.

Sure, absolutely. So our process when people come in working with me one-to-one is just more so energy diagnostic. So we go down an assessment specifically of the 9 circuits where people are at. Our main focus is the core belief assessment.

Can we name the 9 circuits? What are the 9 circuits?

Yeah, absolutely. So the first one is the ATP, right? The biological driver. Like, we obviously have to have that generated or there is just no potential for voltage. We do what we call the forever framework. This is where we deal with the identities, the emotional backgrounds, and then also the, the essential bioenergetic soundtrack of life, what's happening within the emotions. We also have breath going into breathing, the actual process of bringing ATP in through the breath. We have the circadian circuit which breaks down the what you're aligning with, not only just within your sleep cycle, your active recovery, what rest needs to be appropriated to your systems. We also go through mineral gradiancy, which is also the process of what is the electrical potential. We also run through hydration. We go through redox and detox. We go through the fascial tissue as well as the vagus movement. What is that potential and then how you're actually accentuating movement through your life, and then the signaling molecules is where you get the hormones and then also neurotransmitters and other aspects of how the— the cell essentially communicates to itself.

[Speaker:DR_JEFFREY_GLADDEN] Okay.

Yep.

All right. So then walk us through the assessments that you would do for each of those. Yeah.

So we just have a basic diagnostics to see where people are at. And then literally going through, sitting down for the FOREVER framework, we go through a core belief assessment to see what a person is identifying with. And then we go through what I also deem as the trauma assessment just to see what type of possible concussions, what type of high emotional impact experiences has happened in their life, where it's actually stored within different compartments of the brain. And then we just go through the general assessment of what a daily routine is. Like, how is someone aligned obviously with their rest? And then obviously, what are their inputs so we can kinda gauge what they need to put into their systems for ATP to be generated?

Okay. So a lot of this is really kind of optimizing ATP production. Right? You're— I mean, ultimately, you're looking at all the different parameters as I'm hearing about this. Really all the different parameters that go into the biology being able to create energy. And then, is there also sort of a psychology element to this where you're helping people work through traumas and things like that once you get them the substrate, the energetic substrate to work with? And, that's a feedback loop in and of itself. Yeah, yeah. ATP, low ATP facilitates depression. You got to unwind those knots, right?

100%. Yeah.

But ultimately, you're trying to put a person back into equilibrium, let's call it, and even an optimized equilibrium, maybe even better than they ever were before.

Yeah, it's, it's kind of like a 3-phase system. It's like kind of deconstructing the former self, harmonizing, you know, this is obviously the process within the circuitry of redox and detox, like how to eliminate the old self essentially, and then how to add in the new circuitry and expand it as well. And what I really, I really love about what you're saying, it's not even just the generation of ATP, but also the ability to hold it, you know, and that's where that cell membrane potential comes in because, you know, our sodium potassium pump inside the cell, you know, eats up about a third of our energy just by resting. So it's just like being able to generate but also sustain it as well and then also expand it. And this gets into performance and athletics and all the other aspects too.

Right. So do you have physical testing that you're doing? Like, you know, when we do an We get a whole body phase angle when we—

I would love to. I would love to. That's, that's our hopes in the future, obviously with more metrics at the school. We just went through our 6-month testing phase to make sure the actual accountability blocks work. But what we actually are using for the feeling, it's, it is a little bit more subjective because we're teaching the actual flow cycle, the different phases going into the flow cycle. But we definitely want to get to that point where we have a little bit more tools at our disposal to, to measure.

Okay, well, it's still sounding somewhat abstract, right? So, so walk us through like a recent client or something like that where you, you walk through the different things and what the recommendations were so we can get a feel for it.

Absolutely. So there's two kind of offers that we work with. The student startup is coming into the school and kind of breaking down the identity of the Forever Framework, what you actually have to do for inner work. When people work with me one-to-one, it's, it's known as our master's program. These are people a little bit more advanced, specifically specifically in their knowledge. But I break down what are the core factors within the 9 circuits that we work with, and then I teach a technique, a flow sequence. This is where you get into flow for post-traumatic growth, a flow sequence called subconscious dynamics, where we actually pinpoint where the actual memory and certain aspects from that memory, uh, can be pinpointed. And then you can actually give it a prediction error and give it something that it can contradict itself to reassign a new meaning, and then give it integrative active recovery processes to literally start to reformulate the identity, the constructs of the neural network. So, and, and then every, every other aspect within those circuits is just kind of getting an implement. We, we use a, a format called the BioPlan, really just giving them the implementation tools just to find their own flow, obviously within their day-to-day. But when people work with me one-to-one, we go through a flow sequence and it's just teaching each technique through each of the, the phases of flow, cuz there's 4 phases. And we just give them an opportunity to use just their own consciousness, a universal flow, a universal consciousness cycle to, to alleviate pain, any type of fatigue or anything that's actually holding them back within their neural networks.

It's fascinating what you're talking about and still fairly abstract, right? So you're defining terms like Forever Network or framework and 9 circuits, which we kind of ran through, but it's still hard to kind of get our arms around. I'm putting myself in the place of the listener here. As to exactly what you're doing. So let's say somebody comes in with a trauma. Let's say they come in with child abuse. Let's say they were a child and they were abused, right? And then let's say on top of that, they had a concussion. And, you know, I don't know, maybe they were in some sort of an accident. And they come to you because they're wrestling with anxiety, they're wrestling with some cognitive impairment, lack of energy, they feel brain fog. And yet they also have difficulty trusting other people and relating to other people because of the childhood abuse. And things seem kind of broken down. So they kind of fluctuate between some anxiety, some depression, and they feel stressed a lot about things they can't control. So then if somebody comes in like that, just kind of walk us through how you would, how you would break that down.

Yeah. So the energy diagnostics just gives them a framework, a bio plan of like what next steps. But when they work with me one-to-one, I literally pinpoint, does does that trauma or does that experience promote a belief of some sort, right? Like I am insecure. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. And then we pinpoint that and then I take them through subconscious dynamics and we teach.

Okay, so let's just break this down. So somebody comes in and out of that they've created an identity. They've identified or really identified with a set of core beliefs. I'm this, I'm not that. I'm capable of this, I'm not capable of that. The world is this, the world is not that. People are this, they're not that. Right. And then, you know, many times what I find is that people end up living in reaction to the traumas they experienced. And then in addition to that, because of that, they end up with a framework, a limiting framework from inside that they work from. Right. So their traumas have led them to create a limited framework of what's possible, let's say. And so part of liberating an individual from that cage is to go in and actually heal the underlying trauma. You're doing that with some subconscious reprogramming, it sounds like, to be able to give them a different subconscious experience, which then enables them to actually create a different identity, which creates a different you know, being able to break down that cage to liberate themselves. That's kind of what I'm hearing. Is that—

yeah, so yeah, uh, in, in slight terms, it's not like hypnosis or anything. We're teaching them the flow phases to get to a memory that's associated as an earliest imprint to that identity, and then the window of reconsolidation, this piece in neuroscience that allows a memory's charge to be liable and then also malleable to be able to be reintegrated into new networks. So we're finding that original, original imprint. Yep.

Okay. So super abstract still. So I want you to get concrete. What do you actually do? You're talking flow and all of this, but what— talk, talk to me. Make me the patient. Make me the— what do you— what you— if you tell me to just go into a flow state and I don't understand what that is. Yeah.

I'm guiding the person. So, so essentially, like, like I said, because I'll backtrack because this is now starting to just get a little repetitive here. So if people come in, we do the energy diagnostics. We do a core belief assessment, and then there is a plan built. When they come see me, I take them through the flow sequence to find the pinpointed identity, reconsolidate the memory associated to the memory, right? And then we literally do conscious integrative work to allow that to fold into a new identity. And then we add in all the other circuits to reaffirm the charge for that person.

Okay, I'm, I'm actually following you. I'm just not sure how many people listening are following you. Sure.

Not a problem.

And I think what you're doing is really brilliant, quite honestly. I think it's really, really cool. I mean, because really, I think one of the biggest— well, really, I think all of life comes down to one thing, and I've said this before, which is really optimizing the nervous system, right? Because then it's how you think, what you feel, what you think is possible, you know, how you're connected, all of that, right? So, and I find that one of the things to get past people's limiting beliefs and their, their, uh, what they're living in reaction to is to be able to go in and actually reprogram the nervous system, right? So the holy grail of any optimization change platform is to be able to reprogram the nervous system. And it sounds like you're able to do that. That's what I'm hearing. You have a strategy where you're able to go in and identify what the core belief is, what the underlying trauma was, and then actually either overwrite that or substitute in something for that. But you're not using hypnosis, and hypnosis has been done to do this.

Yes. Right.

Where it goes in, creates a framework and allows people to experience it in a different way and, and kind of reset the system. So you're not using hypnosis. You're using conversation. Is that what's happening?

Yeah. So it's a flow sequence. So when, when, as—

Abstract term, flow sequence. Nobody knows what it means. So what is a flow sequence?

Got it. So here, this is, this will be concrete in the neuroscience. So the flow cycle has 4 phases. It has a struggle phase, has a, or a release phase. It also has a flow phase, the actual flow itself, and then active recovery. So I'm guiding them. Yes, they are. They have their eyes closed, but I'm guiding them through a sequence of techniques to find that imprinted memory. So I'm literally analytically breaking down, giving assigned meaning to where they are within each phase, each step that they're dropping in as they get into flow. And as they get into flow, which we're finding from the research, not only a paper that was published in 2022 called the first few seconds of flow, that a sequence drawn out for that extended amount of time allows just the body to sequester and release the charge specifically from the memory. And that, that, yeah, that, that is specifically dedicated. That paper, that white paper that was done by Stephen Kotler and some other neuroscientists, kind of broke down that treatment for, for post-traumatic stress disorder.

Okay, so I was just about to bring up Stephen Kotler because I read The Rise of Superman, and, you know, back when it was first published and all that, was really fascinated by flow. So just so the audience understands, hands, when he's using this word flow, he's using it in a very specific sense. It actually goes back to, I think it was a Czechoslovakian psychologist, if I'm not mistaken, whose name is about 30 letters long that I can't pronounce. And that gentleman was the first person to define flow, Dr. Whomever It Was in Czechoslovakia. And what he discovered was that when people go into a flow state, it's actually a state of of presence in many respects. We're removed from all the distractions. So you can actually go into a flow state in a conversation. You can do it. He was using Stephen Kotler's in his book, The Rise of Superman, was then taking that idea of flow and putting it into why extreme sport athletes have progressed at a much faster rate than other athletes have in terms of, you know, what they're able to do, whether it's a first backflip on a motorcycle. Now they're doing 3 backflips, right? It's like, how do you make that How did you get that much progress in this short of a period of time? Yeah, he was talking about flow states, right? And so what I've experienced is that when I go into a meditative state, it's actually a flow state of one sort. When I'm on a mountain bike and I'm on the woods, you know, going into a flow state, it's like meditation in motion. But in both cases, it's a state of very, very high presence. You're not really committed to a particular outcome and you're free of all the distractions that come in. You're not thinking about something else. You're not worried about something else. You're simply in the moment. All of time shrinks into one moment, which is quite honestly all there ever is, is one moment. We get distracted by the idea of what's in the past and what's in the future and all of this. But really, if you come into this place, of flow, which is really almost like meditation for me, it opens up an entire new world of possibilities. And it sounds like you're bringing people into that space, almost meditative/flow space, to enable them to remove the distractions and the preconceived beliefs to actually be able to go in and now walk through a series of things to reprogram the nervous system. Is that—

Precisely. Yeah. And what I love about what you're saying, because this is a perfect example, kind of like us, we're in— we were in that struggle phase trying to find a drop-in, which is the first step into the second phase, which is that release. And then you can kind of have a little bit more common ground. But I love what you're saying because not only just with Stephen Kotler's work, but William James back in 1901, one of the first documentary aspects of, you know, neurophysiology and documentation. He was just talking about the greatest education is to be an ally with your nervous system. And after developing this sequence, I just found that people didn't have to fight themselves anymore. And then you can reassign the associated meaning to the emotional charge of that imprint that gave them the identity. And then it's just really about conscious integration.

That's abstract. And that I'm not following exactly. So give me a concrete example. So somebody has an identity of their You know, give me something. They're what? They're, they're, they're anxious. I don't know.

Yeah, sure. Say, say they're, I, I am unworthy, right? So we would take them through. Yeah, we would take them through a sequence, right? The subconscious dynamics. There is about 8, right?

That's what you're doing. But what are they doing on the inside? They come in and they say, I'm not worthy. And then the next thing they go into is you put them in kind of a meditative flow state. Is that right? Yep.

So they got 4 guidelines through this process. They just follow instructions. They gotta be coachable through this process. They have to learn to let go and we teach that obviously through the techniques. And then on top of it, you just have to have attentive focus because obviously flow takes prolonged concentration. And when we get to a portion that is the earliest imprint memory, that's when we do the decoding specifically of what the nervous system has been saying, which is essentially a lie based off that identity. That's right.

So get to that point in the nervous system and they have a preconception that they're unworthy and they have an identity of that. I'm trying to feel into this. So you go back to that. Let's say you have an identity of feeling unworthy. Then all of a sudden you're looking at that kind of wondering where did that come from? And now you're helping them to get to the dad or mom or brother or sister or teacher, you know, whoever was kind of a power figure in their world, you know, the judgment of that individual in a particular situation where they were vulnerable, you know, kind of imprinted that, right? And if you get them back to the point where they re-experience what it was to be 6 years old or 8 years old or 4 years old or whenever, when that first got put in and then it was probably reinforced, you know, throughout time. Yeah. Right. So that's how it really gets kind of hardwired. So now they've gotten in touch with that. So now they can see for the first time, maybe clearly, and you get them to distill it down to maybe even what was the first initial thing. And then maybe getting them to ask the question, what would I have been like if I, what was I like before I heard that? Right. Or something like that. Who was I in my native state before that piece got dropped in? Right. Maybe you're getting them in touch with that.

That's a beautiful way of saying it.

Yeah. Right. And then, so then now you're getting them to flip the script and identify what was imprinted as being, I don't know, extraneous, erroneous, somebody else's problem, not their problem, you know, however you define that. And then it's allowing that unencumbered self, the original self, to actually say, no, you're actually in charge. You, this is, this is who you really are. Now, how do you get people to actually flip that though? Is that, I mean, because you can cognitively flip that and I can feel it. I can feel it flip for myself. But how do you, is there a special technique where you get people to flip that?

Yeah, the beautiful thing about what you're, just to give context, in trauma training, like in trauma-informed training, that process of contradiction is called prediction error. Being able to flip the script essentially to give them a new assigned meaning. And we have a process called quantum forgiveness where we're actually using the totality of visualization. To release the said charge going through the second phase. So it's very detailed. It is kind of complex, but once you kind of get into the flow of it, it just kind of oozes off you. And then that window of reconsolidation gives them the opportunity to reassign the meaning to their preference. So that has— so obviously, as you know, the memory is not erased, but the meaning is flipped on its polarity for its charge.

Yeah. So it's flipped in the sense that it went from being something that defines who you are as to being kind of a— I won't say it's irrelevant, but it's something that is kind of bouncing off, you know, like you have Teflon on or something like that. That's a great way to put it. Yeah. Like, yeah, it happened, but I'm not going to allow it to define me. Right. And now I understand it was actually their problem in their world and their situation, whatever else. Really, quite honestly, I feel bad for them, or I hope they feel better, but yeah, it's my burden to carry anymore. Right. And so So you, you basically reassign that and then you go back to reassigning them or allowing them to actually claim who they always were.

Absolutely.

Right. Absolutely. Right. And so that's kind of how that's working.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, absolutely. It's a beautiful way to say. Yeah.

Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, I'm just trying to, you're so caught up in your lingo that because you, you've worked in the space that it takes somebody to kind of deconstruct the lingo. For the audience here to be able to also get a feel for it. So that's kind of what we're doing together there. Yeah. Cool. Okay. So who's kind of your ideal client for this? Who do you like to work with?

I mean, literally my favorite people are the people that are just go-getters. You know, I really fancy the, the Kobe Bryans, the Michael Jordans of the world, you know, just the people that are willing to have no excuses. That is. But obviously I'm open You know, to how people want to go about this because the techniques, and I love what you said about the notion of the lingo, is the techniques are very simple in their structure of how to be followed because the rules are so simple, but it can be a lot to follow through if you are super, super distracted. So people just obviously are focused and willing to become somebody new.

Yeah, that's right. And I think if you're listening to this and you've struggled with making changes in your own life. I think, you know, we're big fans of meditation. We're big fans of using BrainTap to put yourself into a theta state or an alpha state or, you know, a gamma state or flow state for that matter. I'm just wondering, you know, what you said is very cool because you're going into this flow state. So do you have a sense that you're putting them into a particular brainwave state like gamma, you know, which is flow, which is the highest frequency? We're in beta right now, you know, conversing. And then alpha would be a traditional meditative state, which is slower and more relaxed. And then delta is, you know, the hypnagogic state just above sleep, which is a very deep and profound meditation where people have very profound sort of spiritual experiences. And then delta, of course, is sleep itself. So the point is, I wonder if you have greater success when you're able to have people step into one of these states, whether it be delta or alpha or gamma or that kind of thing. I know you're not doing EEGs, but it's just a question I'm raising. But you probably have some people that are better at dropping in than other people that are dropping into a waveform, right? So you might consider using BrainTap to actually prime them to drop into gamma or wherever you think the therapeutic window is going to be. I know in some of Carl Jung's shadow work, work, which is also very interesting about bringing out parts of yourself that you're ashamed of or that you deny, which are also kind of like the 4-year-olds in the background that are making their presence known, but they're not really given a voice at the same time. And so being able to bring them out into the open and acknowledge, hey, okay, there you are. You do want to hit Sally or whatever. Or whatever that thing is. It's like, I'm glad you're here, right? And welcoming them in, which then gives you control over the behavior as opposed to feeling this urge to hit somebody and not knowing why, right? It's like, oh, there you are. Okay. Yeah. Your thoughts are welcome too, right? And it's kind of, right. But in order to consolidate some of the shadow work, it's been recommended that alpha is one of the best waveforms to be able to do that. Delta's a little too deep, gamma's maybe a little too high speed. So I'm just curious, and maybe you don't know the answer to this, but it would be curious to, uh, to investigate that a little bit as to what, what waveform works the best to help people drop in.

We have, we have had two, uh, individuals actually use like a UV ring, uh, and they've gotten, they've gotten into Delta, you know, when they've gotten deep into the flow. Um, but, but I also utilize open focus components to some of our techniques as transition techniques because there's an intense amount of energy that has to into flow, it's very neurotransmitter taxing. It's very intensive. Um, so yeah, we haven't gotten into a lot of those measurements, but we do have a couple of people that have gotten into Delta and that's pretty awesome.

Yeah. So anyway, that's, yeah, that's something you could do easily with BrainTap. Yeah. And you can actually, you can also, they have a neurocheck that you clip up to people's wrists. It's like a 5-minute measurement with a readout on a laptop that tells you sympathetic, parasympathetic, breaks it down. Neurohormonal stress, et cetera. So, you can get a real feel of where somebody's starting, right?

Yeah.

What we found is that people are not very reliable at actually knowing where they are.

True.

What I mean by that is that people will come in and they're very calm and they appear, "My life is great," right? And yet, when you talk to them and when you do this test, you see that things are not really that, right? They're like, they're really, really heavily stressed. Their parasympathetic is really depressed. Sympathetic nervous system is, you know, pegging the meter, so to speak. And yet they say, I don't feel stressed. And yet we know that they are. And so it's a little bit like an analogy that I use for people is that it's kind of like if you've been carrying a backpack your whole life, you don't know that the backpack's on your back anymore. More, right? Right.

That's a great point.

Or even though it's an 80-pound backpack you've been carrying, you just normalized it because that's what humans do. We normalize. Right? We even normalize trauma. We say, well—

Absolutely. Yeah.

So this is part of your thing of breaking down this normalization pattern. But people come in and some people come in and they're carrying a 10-pound backpack and they're great. Or some people are not with any backpack at all. We can measure it. It's like, oh my gosh, this But for a lot of folks, they're carrying a backpack they know they don't have. So I'm, I'm just thinking about your work. Some of this, some of these diagnostics and, you know, ways to drop in might be, might be really interesting.

Yeah. And I appreciate that because that reminds me of one of the key concepts of training. Obviously, when I got into flow, not only just as a practitioner, was to not trust the personality, trust the biology, because the personality doesn't scale, the biology does. So that was, that was a key indicator. And that kind of reminded me as you said that, because you're totally right. Like, what is really surface is not usually the truth.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. And God bless everybody. They're doing the best. Totally. Yeah. This is not any indictment, but we do tend to kind of put our best face forward. We have, you know, this persona, right? We have a personality, we have an identity, and we have a persona, right? And so it's being able to kind of peel back the curtains, right, to see what's really going on. And that's where you're able to do your best work. We're able to do our best work as well. So yeah, that's really fascinating. Okay. So you're using flow, you're using Kotler, and you've developed a whole system around that or adopted a whole system and probably refined it to help people really heal trauma. And it sounds like you're working on both physical as well as mental trauma. Is that correct?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. The best part about our process is making sure that we have the polarity of the inputs. So like you said earlier about the psychology component, the psychoneuroimmunology, it's really just making sure that you're also consuming things properly, not just from the psyche standpoint. So if we didn't take that into account, we would be we're really going against our own moral stand ground because holonomics just means the whole in, in science and neurologically from just a Greek standpoint. So yeah, we're doing, doing both sides of the field.

Yeah. So when you say that, you're talking about when you're bringing things in, you're talking about their nutrition, their sunlight, their, right, yes, environment, etc. Okay. Toxic relationships, all the other stuff that's important to that. Yeah. Well, cool. Yeah, that's very interesting. So we're, we're you like to see people in person? Where are you guys located?

Uh, we do about 99% of our stuff virtually. Uh, they— these, these processes going through subconscious dynamics are obviously more tangible, they're more powerful in person. Uh, but yeah, everything that we do pretty much is online, but we're located just right outside of Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Okay, got it. Cool. And how do people get a hold of you?

Yeah, best way to get a hold of me is just through, uh, Facebook at Kyle Anthony Troutman. We do have kind of more of a fun, like, pictorial aspect at @highvipolynomix on Instagram, but I'm more active in the DMs. I'm kind of one of those people that is just like, hey, reach out, get more information from the horse's mouth. You can go to our website at www.highvipolynomix.com. It's more so of a student hub where they can actually access a lot of their course material. Yeah, easiest way to get through me is the, uh, direct messaging.

Okay, direct messaging through Facebook. What other, what other things did you want introduce us to?

Oh man, I mean, outside of Flow for Post-Traumatic Growth and just the concept of energy literacy, I just firmly believe that any type of crisis that we're about to hit on the forefront, I believe it's all energy related. And we're not talking about any political aspect or any type of like that crisis. It's just pure exhaustion. I just think seeing things on a fatigue level is just where my preventive notion on building out what is energy literacy, how to understand it from its full concept, and then also how to have a practicality behind it. It's really powerful and how simple you can change if you're given the proper metrics and then you have the accountability container to just keep you in that pocket. So yeah, it's just a fun— it's a fun time to be able to not only just teach what we teach, but also see people almost observably change them with a guarantee based off of them understanding the metrics. And that's just where we really love the observable science and then just also giving people the proper care that they need as they go through something challenging. Yeah.

Yeah, that's great. That's great. You know, one of the things that we end up talking with people about, and this is kind of a new analogy for us. I find that people relate well to analogies, quite honestly.

Absolutely. That's how we teach.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we've never really been taught what does good neurological function look like? What does it feel like? Right? And so the analogy that I've started using is that of a skier. I'm a snowboarder myself, but I use the analogy of a skier. And if you see— and everybody's watched people ski, right? And so if you see somebody that's really good, a really good skier, and you see them going down like a mogully thing, or they're going through the trees or whatever, one thing you notice about them is that their upper body never, never moves, right? Their shoulders are pointed down the fall line, their faces heading down the fall line, and their lower body is doing this, right? It's going back and forth and moving back and forth. you know, hitting this mogul and jumping to that and popping here. But the upper body is completely still. Yeah. That is what, for me, that is what good neurological function looks like, where you're actually able to navigate the vicissitudes of life, right? All the, all the changes of life, if you will. And you're able to navigate that, but you're, but you're calm and relaxed. You're in that, you're in that state of flow. And it's, it's almost meditation in motion, meditation in action now. And you're allowing what needs to happen to happen to deal with it. Right. I need to go here. I need to go there. I need to do that. I need to answer this, whatever it is. So the lower body is doing the work, but the nervous system is really calm and relaxed and in that flow state. And that's in contradistinction to, I think, the way many people identify themselves as being fully engaged when they're getting bopped around. Like somebody that's not a good skier just goes through a mogul field, right? Let's say. And they're, you know, every mogul they hit, they're being bounced and they're, you know, recovering and they're catching it and they're on one ski and they're getting back and they're, you know, so, right? So it's kind of like that. And people, I don't know that everyone understands that really the goal is to be a great skier, right? And to have that stillness within your nervous system and your ability to deal with things from a place of calm and perspective and confidence and everything else that goes with that, right? So then the lower body can do what it needs to. And you can— doesn't mean that you disengage with life. You actually engage with it from a different perspective.

Totally.

Right. And it's very, very cool that way. Right. So you get this.

Yeah, absolutely. And this just reverts back, you know, on that loop. I kind of call it the electrical Jacob's ladder. It's like that goes back to the cell membrane potential, how well it can hold allows you to be fluid. right? Because of the polarization specifically of the cell isn't bouncing around all the time. It's not erratic. So I love that analogy too because that just allows that you have buoyancy within yourself.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

I love it.

Yeah, that's good. You know, one of the things that we do to really boost NAD, which is a nice way to boost ATP, is to use red light with methylene blue.

Nice.

Chromacy oxidation as well as the rest of the electron transport chain. And then immediately after that, jump into an ozone sauna. With several NAD supplements, NAD precursor supplements that when you get out of the ozone sauna, the ozone sauna, we're in it for about 17 to 20 minutes now. Number 1, you get the effect of a sauna. Number 2, so you're detoxing. Number 2, the ozone, which is an oxidative stress, is actually oxidizing the NADH. NAD basically in the body is in 2 forms, NAD, NAD+ and NADH with a hydrogen added. So, when you oxidize it, you take the hydrogen off and move it back to NAD+. NAD+. Well, it's the NAD+ that actually does the work. So it's what's activating, you know, part of the electron transport chain. It's activating sirtuins. It's doing all these other good things. And I will tell you that when we do that in sequence, you come out of there, you know, I was born in 1954, right? I've got a birthday coming up at the end of the month.

All right.

People can do the math, right? Yeah. Because I wake up 27 every day. So that's cool. And let's go. So when I come out of that sequence, however, I mean, I feel like I'm 16 again for like the next 3 or 4 days. So I do it about twice a week. It's a phenomenal way to boost ATP, which then gives you the substrate to do all the other stuff. So we do this in conjunction with some brain retraining and programming that we do also, right? With some transcranial magnetic stimulation things that we do, because we find that all that's super important. And when your brain is really smoking like that, Drinking hydrogen water with, with that's infused with this H2, it's imprinted information from the quantum field. It's imprinted into the H2. It's very, very cool too. So anyway, a lot of it's, it's to do the work that, that, that you're doing, that we're doing a little different ways, but same work in a sense. It takes a lot of energy and really want to be able to, right? It does. It's exhausting, right? Like, so pretty cool.

I love it, man. I mean, I would love that protocol. Like that's the whole process of just energy literacy in this notion is like how much can you really know about what it is that it takes, essentially, for whatever it takes?

Yeah, that's right. Well, that's kind of our approach, is whatever it takes, right? So for us, 100 is the new 30. That's literally—

have that on my, my thing. Whatever it takes. That's it. That's the attitude. I love it, man. I love it.

Well, Kyle, it's been a real pleasure chatting with you.

So likewise.

Good stuff.

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