#136 Acupuncture and Fertility with Michelle Oravitz

The information provided in this podcast is educational and not intended to diagnose or treat medical conditions. Dr. Donnie Wilson struggled for decades to solve her numerous health issues and heal her body. But with focused determination, she healed herself. And in doing so, she discovered the Dr. Donnie stress recovery Protocol. On this show, you're going to hear from doctors, nutritionists and Experts along with Dr. Donnie, who will give practical advice and wisdom to help heal your body. This is how humans heal.

Hi, I'm Dr. Donnie, and welcome to How Humans Heal. Today we're going to be talking with Michelle Oravitz. She is an acupuncturist and she also specializes in ayurvedic medicine, hypnotherapy, and more, including many approaches to healing and supporting fertility. Thank you so much for joining me today, Michelle.

Thank you so much, Dr. Joni, for having me.

Of course. Oh my gosh. You know, I love talking about fertility and wellness and I'm so glad to have gotten to know you and to be on your podcast. And I wanted to share with the How Humans Heal audience about your background. So tell us, like, how did you even like, because I know you have such an amazing story. It's not like you came out of childhood and knew you wanted to be an acupuncturist. Tell us, how did you, how did this become your passion?

So I started out, like many people in healing, I started out as a patient. My background before doing what I do now was working in architecture. So I was an architect, went to school for that. And interesting because even when I was at school, I was back and forth on my, on my major. I loved the creative aspect of it, but I always wanted to do something helped helping people. So I thought about psychology. So it was something that kind of came up for me many times. And I'd even have dreams about it and then just keep going. And I was confused. But when you're younger, in your 20s, sometimes you get confused. Even though you know something, you might not like, really act on it or have the confidence to, and, or the courage. So back, way back when, even before I learned architecture and practiced it, I had irregular periods. So I remember having like really just three month cycles and really bad cramps. And definitely looking back, things were not balanced for me at all. And, and I remember also having a lot of emotional, like I'd get really bad PMS and get really emotional and cry a lot and have different times where I felt a little depressed. Looking back, I'm thinking, oh my God, I probably really was so out of Balance. But at the time, I had no idea. I was a teenager. And so I always had irregular periods. I always had times where I wouldn't have my periods for like, two or three months at a time. And finally, I was 17 years old. I got my period at 13. 17. My mom took me to an OB or gynecologist. I don't even remember, but. And I remember thinking, okay, cool, like, this is going to give me some kind of cure or result. I didn't know anything about how things worked at the time in medicine, but.

I think that's how a lot of people, when you go to the gynecologist, it's like, okay, they're going to help me solve this, you know?

Exactly. Totally. And so it was a real shock to me when I got the birth control pill, because I was never on the birth control pill. I wasn't even sexually active. And I'm like, oh, like, really? Like, what? Why? Why are you giving me the birth control pill? Like, I've never heard about that for the period. So he said, oh, just take this and you'll get a monthly bleed. And I was like, okay, well, what happens if I get off this? And he said, well, you're going to go back to what you are now. I'm like, okay, well, how's that going to help? It made no sense to me.

Then you're like, I'm trying to solve this, not just do a temporarily distraction, a detour. I'm going to actually solve the path I'm on.

Yeah, exactly. And then you. And then, of course, you take it, because that's what you're given. You're like, okay, well, let me try this. And he's like, oh, it's going to also help your skin clear up and yada, yada. And like, your period's not going to be as crampy. And so I was like, okay, well, let me try this out. And intuitively, I knew that I shouldn't do this too long. I was watching my body, and I noticed that I'd retain a little more water. And I wasn't 100, feeling like it was good for me. And I also remember when I was growing up, when I was younger, my grandmother always talked to me about natural medicine. And she never studied it, but she always was big on eating healthy, like eating garlic. And she would tell me the benefits of it. She just knew all these things. And I was amazed. And I was like, where do you know this? You know? But she just, like, knew all these things, and she would tell Me about honey, how important it is. And she hated taking pills, she hated going to the doctor. Like she did not like it. She said, if you eat right, you don't have to do that. So I think somewhere she planted some seeds in my head that when I was taking the birth control pill, I was like, you know, I shouldn't do this for too long at a time. So unless I really need it, like every so often, I'll do it. And then every time I came off again, it would be like three month cycles, two month cycles again, the same thing. So this is going on years. So from like really the age of 13 to the age of 25. Then I changed. I left San Francisco. I was living in San Francisco after working as an architect, came back to New York, decided to do a couple of month vacation backpacking in Europe. I sold my car. I was like, okay, this is a good time to do it between jobs. Because I felt like once I worked, it was like I couldn't, I had no breaks because you only get two weeks out of the year, which is crazy. I think it's just crazy. That's not healthy for anybody. So then I was like, okay, well, let me take take advantage of this time. I traveled, it was a great experience. But I didn't get my period the whole time I was away. And it was like three months. So I came back home and I was like, okay, moved back to New York. I'm like, fresh, new start, mom, what do I do? Like I gotta do something. And so she's like, oh, well, interesting. I heard about this acupuncturist and I only had one experience doing acupuncture in San Francisco. And I was like, okay, let me try this out. So, so I went to him. He was Dr. Lee, an older Chinese man. Amazing. He just had like almost like a Buddha nature about him. Always smiling and laughing and so sweet. And same day he sat me down and said, for women, the period is really, really important because the period is a reflection of their health. And he said, he gave me a bag of herbs, did the acupuncture. I loved it. I just immediately was like, this is so cool. And I felt my body. And I was like, this is really cool. I felt my body regulate. Like it was just something that I was so open to energetically and then finally gave me herbs to cook at home. And I got my period the same day I went to him, came home, got my period.

Isn't that amazing?

It was insane. I was, I was like, you're like.

You'Re this is speaking to your body in a different way.

Yep. And then ever since then, and I started going to him, eventually I think I didn't go to him for a couple of weeks after or a month after, and I got my period again and I was like, okay, I gotta go back to this guy. And I started going every week and, like, really being consistent with it, I started feeling better emotionally. I noticed my skin clearing up. I noticed that things that used to bother me in my corporate job because I started working in New York City, did not bother me. I wasn't as sensitive. I was like, okay, this is interesting. This is really interesting. And that really opened me up. And then eventually I realized my job wasn't aligned for me. It's interesting how when you start to become more balanced in your body, you start to get more clarity in your mind, and you start to see what's good for you and what's not so good for you. And you automatically, it's like your body aligns itself to heal, but your mind also aligns itself to heal with what's best for it. That's really interesting. Yeah.

You start seeing everything differently and you get these insights of like, oh, my. The way that I've been living my life in, the way my job was in, my daily routine was ending up continually disrupting everything. And then you have to continually go get acupuncture. Right. And you're like, at a certain point, it's like, oh, my gosh, what if I just shift my job and then my body can stay in balance. Right. Like, you start to realize, like, which side of this do I need to change?

Yeah. And it's like that with relationships. It's like that with so many different things in your life. And so eventually I stayed because I was afraid to. You know, it takes a lot of courage to decide you're going to go back to school or change your school.

Especially because you had this whole career as an architect. I mean, like, it's basically because we're also taught, you know, when we invest in something, time and money and energy, and we associate our. Like, we, you know, we start to think of ourselves as our career. Like, how to have an identity.

It's your identity. And then I remember also, like, telling my mom that that thought came in my. And this is like less than a year.

After she paid my loans. So she's like, you invite. You did so much, and why don't you give us a chance? So there was a lot of that, like, okay, having to let it go.

How to let it go. Right, exactly.

And then I eventually met my. I mean, I met my husband actually pretty shortly after I started acupuncture. And so eventually we got married. And then he was the one that said to me, you know what? You're not happy doing architecture? He's like, think about going back to school. Like, it's fine. And so we moved to Florida and I enrolled in ayurvedic medicine. And it was a two year degree. It wasn't. There's not. I don't know if it is now, but it wasn't licensed at the time, so it wasn't as regulated as I would have wanted it to be. And I used a lot of the information there, but I said, I just really want to go eventually back to school and study acupuncture. That was just like my, my real heart's goal, you know? And eventually when my kids were old enough, I went back to school and studied acupuncture. And then the hypnotherapy came in because as I was studying, as I was practicing, after I was done, I noticed a lot of belief systems in my patients. So, like, physically they would do better and then they'd always go to patterns. And I was like, okay, well, the mind is so important. It's such an important aspect of our health. So that was where I incorporated hypnotherapy.

Yeah, it's amazing because it is. It's like sometimes being. We were so used to the way things are, it's hard to shift. And you, in your life, you seem like you had this openness to change and you allowed your, you kind of followed the path of your, your life or your intuition or your gut, you know, like different people will say, you know, you're like, hey, this acupuncture helped me. I'm going to lean into this and follow that and spend more time doing that. And I think, I mean, that's what I did when I was figuring out what do I want to do. You know, I can resonate with what you're saying because I remember feeling like, oh, I resonate much more with food as medicine and prevention of health issues and what can I do to help people optimize their health. And I just leaned into that and found my way to naturopathic medicine and what I've been doing for all these years. And I think that if anyone listening, maybe that could be helpful for you too. If you're feeling like, like maybe whatever your. Even if it's a career that you identified with and you Think how could I possibly let this go? But if you recognize that there's something about that. That job or that career or that routine that's actually harming your health. Right. At a certain point, we have to realize, like, almost prioritize are what's important. Right. And when we prioritize, we go, wait a minute, if I'm not. If I'm not healthy and feeling good, I can't do anything. Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

Right. Like, is that. What do you think? That was part of it, too, where you were like. Like, sounds like your husband helped you say, hey, you're not happy or healthy doing this. We need to reprioritize and find a way for you to do something that you feel happy and healthy doing.

Yeah. And it was interesting because one thing I was really aligned with was my marriage. I picked a really amazing guy because he was very supportive. He's a doctor, too. He's a Western medicine doctor and was very supportive that I study what I was interested in. And he just saw that, recognized that in me and reflected it to me and just said, hey, this is the truth. That's one thing that he's always given me, is the truth. And I was like, yeah, you're right. Like, this is the truth. And I'm pushing it off and pushing it off and pushing it off. But it's like something that really, that I need to address.

And that's a beautiful thing because I can hear that you also bring that for your patients. Like, I mean, because now would you say in your practice now that you. Do you specialize in women's health and fertility? Tell us more. Like, how do you, you know, who are the patients who really, you know, should be thinking of calling you or that you really are passionate about helping?

Yeah. So it is women's health and fertility. I mean, that's like, really. And I do have people outside of fertility and women's health, but most, the majority of my patients and my clients, because I do online coaching as well, is fertility. I love it. It's so. It's just so interesting to me. I've consistently been really delving into it for years, and I keep learning new things, and there's just so much to learn because there's so many new supplements and, like, science that's coming out, like, research. It's just really interesting. It's an amazing, amazing field to be in.

And of course, talking about alignment, I mean, there's. It's like that sometimes I think, like, the ovaries are so aware of our Environment and our alignment and sometimes when, because I, you know, I work so much with, with helping patients to get pregnant and prevent miscarriages too. And it's. So I'm excited to talk to you about, you know, what we see in common. I mean, I definitely see that like if, if the person's in a stressful environment, like especially if their day to day is very stressful, or if they are even maybe not aligned with the work they're doing, or not aligned, feeling aligned in their relationship, then sometimes that's part of why the pregnancy is not happening. And as they, yes, we want to balance hormones and we want to balance, you know, of course, like microbiome and neurotransmitters. I go down the line and getting everything balanced. But there's also an aspect that's, that's about balancing, you know, like your life. And the thing. Tell us more like I'm very curious about like your, your take on Chinese medicine. Maybe if there's listeners who aren't as familiar with acupuncture and Chinese medicine. I mean, I think a lot of it is about balance, like how that it's like how do we create balance in the body using herbs and acupuncture needles. But tell us more like how would you explain why would someone who hasn't tried acupuncture before, what would help them to understand a reason to try it?

Well, one thing that I actually wanted to talk about, that you just talked about is how your life reflects. Everything's reflected, right? Your body's reflected. That's one actually really amazing part of Chinese medicine that they talk about and they see that even in the body that your hand can reflect the whole body, your ear can reflect the whole body. And it's almost like this hologram. And that hologram extends out to all of nature, all of life, everything. So like the universe, the sun, the stars, the moon, everything that happens in the rhythms of life reflects in the body. So we're like walking living ecosystems. Some of us have too much damp, you know, that's the imbalance that we're talking about. Some of us have, have too much fire. So like.

Just like what you do, we don't treat the symptom. We look at a person that for example has a headache, right? They could have a headache because they have too much liver. Qi stagnation, we call it like liver issues or stagnation which is caused from stress like you talk about. And then also it could be from having too much heat in the body or it could have be from too much cold, too much damp, or too little blood. You know, there's so many different things that can cause the same symptom. So we look at the pattern, we look at the underlying root cause, and then we also look at the. One of the best ways or symbols that we look at is the yin and the yang. So. So that it's this beautiful symbol. It looks very spiritual and Zen, but it's just. It's basically what Western medicine calls homeostasis. And as we know, we need homeostasis in order to live. And our body automatically looks to stabilize that homeostasis to create that homeostasis. If we have too many hormones in the body, then the body will shut down or the brain will shut down. It's not. It's giving out or making those hormones or putting it into the blood. So it's like a thermostat that we have. It gets to a certain point and then it stops, and then the point lowers, and then it starts again, and it just basically wants to maintain that balance. What happens is we live in normal life, and this normal life isn't so normal. We're like, you know, we do a lot more. We stay up late. We get bonuses for staying up late and ignoring our body's cues. Sometimes people get so into work, they hold their. Their pee and their poo and, you know, they're. They're just like, zoning in. They barely realize how much tension they're holding in their shoulders. They're, like, tensing up as they're in front of the computer. They don't drink, they don't eat because they're totally ignoring their. What their bodies are telling them. And this is just like on and on and on chronically. So, yeah, the body's incredibly intelligent, but it is a body. It's a body of a human, and it's not a robot. So if you're not going to give it what it needs, it's going to eventually give you some signs and signals and really disharmonious feelings so that it can get your attention and symptoms to let you know something's not right. And that's typically where we come in, you and I. And then that's usually when people will come and approach us. If a lot of times, if they don't get the medicine that they want, just like I didn't with the ob, you know, getting the birth control pill, and eventually, okay, something's got to give. Let's figure this out. So I treat with Chinese medicine. You treat with acupuncture, you Treat with herbs. You do moxa cupping. There's many different things like tools, but the two main legs are really acupuncture and herbs. And so the herbs are more like the chemical that you think about the chemistry in the body. And like, it gets. It's actually really great for changing the elements. We talk about the elements in the body. It's really great for doing that because there are some heating herbs, cooling herbs, you know, herbs that bring more blood flow or move the blood or tonify the blood or help the qi, you know. So it kind of gets into the chemistry. It gets into like the intricacies. Now the acupuncture is almost like the circuit. So it's like the electrician, if you want to look at it like that, that fixes and rewires, or makes sure not rewires, but opens up the wires that are already there so that they're able to free flow. And it also helps that energy as it's flowing to feed all the different systems and get into different organs. And so we're basically. The acupuncture points are where those little circuits come up. I say they come up to breathe or say hi in the surface of the skin. And that's where we're able to access it by manipulation of needles. People call them acupuncture points. But you can also do acupressure. That's basically the same point. But you're just putting pressure versus needles. Sometimes I'll have people do that. If I work with people online. I'll teach them the pressure points and then they can use essential oils. So there's different ways to definitely access them. And so you're getting them at a point where you're really able to access them and manipulate the energy in. Around the skin and then that, because it. It really leads into deeper places, it actually goes deeper into the body in certain ones. And every one of them, every organ has a meridian, and then there's organs that connect. So it's very intricate. I mean, I can get into crazy detail, but I don't want to, like, lose people here. But it is really intricate and it's a really beautiful thing. And so once you get that moving and once you give the body what it needs and you also add nutrition, then the body's like, okay, I'm satisfied. I have the energy that I need. I remove the blockages that I need in order to move that energy that I needed and got. And so it does its thing. It creates that homeostasis and then it.

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So amazing and I think like, I mean Chinese medicine has existed for, I don't know, thousands of years. I don't even know if we know how long.

3,000 that we know of. But you know, there was book burning so they think that it's way longer and they just lost a lot of information. And actually some people say that we only use like a small percentage of what it really is. There's so much more that's been lost, which is so sad.

But we think about like they were really understanding the interconnections within our bodies. I mean now in modern day medicine we get this idea that our bodies are not interconnected because we have to go to different specialists for different parts of the body.

Oh yeah.

But actually our bodies are so interconnected. And I love how Chinese medicine and other systems of medicine, like Ayurvedic medicine also really honors that interconnectivity in our body that you could press on your hand and that that could influence, you know, organs in other areas of your body and that those organs are also interconnected and communicating with each other. And that we're really aiming not for because I think so much of the times as humans we, we want to go for black or white. Like, but really what Chinese medicine teaches us is that we're going for balance and like you said, homeostasis or flow, we're not going for black or white, on or off. We're going for how can things come in balance with each other. And it's, it's a beautiful thing. It's sometimes hard to understand and even speak about in words.

Yeah. Because it's so intricate. Yeah.

And. And yet like to know that they figured out that if we, you know, press on acupuncture, acupressure, or use acupuncture in certain points, that we can actually have this huge influence. Maybe also speak to, if you don't mind, because I also talk about this in the Master, your stress book. I talk about the elements because I wanted to bring in this level of also other types of medicine and so many traditional medicines from around the world, not just Chinese medicine, but so many of them acknowledge the elements. And to me, it's also a way of acknowledging our existence in nature. Right. And this balance that we're talking about. But do you mind just explaining the elements in terms of Chinese medicine and how. How that's used?

Yes. So they look at the liver, which is wind, the heart, which is fire, the spleen, which is earth. There all the different elements have. All the different organs have a different element. And I'm trying to think, what else do I have? So we have liver. The lung is metal. I said liver is wood, actually. Sorry. Wind is. It's wood. Liver's wood. And then. But it could have liver, wind. So it is something that comes off of liver. So liver is wood, heart is fire.

A spleen is earth. Which is interesting because if you look at earth, it has all these element elements within it and like minerals that are really good for the body's energy. And. And actually, when babies put earth in their mouth, it's actually really good for their microbiome. I don't know if you've heard about that.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, that's the thing, right, Is like, we realize, like that instead of being afraid of germs, it's about how do we be acknowledging of, you know, our exposure to the ecosystems around us. Right.

But yes, and when I'm saying spleen, it's not Western medicine. Spleen. So spleen in Chinese medicine is more about digestion. So then what other. What other organs do we have? So we have lung is.

The elements are the. So there's fire, metal, earth, wind. Let me see. Fire, earth, metal, wind. Which one are we missing?

Wood. Wood.

Oh, but is it wind?

Yeah, but there's.

So earth, metal, fire. I haven't done this in school for a while. Metal, fire. I don't know. Let me see. I don't know that wind is, per se, like the five elements. Hold on, let me.

Sometimes it's. Sometimes I think metal overlaps with it.

But it's, you know, this concept again of balance. Right. We Want to have a balance of these different elements. We don't want to have. So that's what you're talking. Like you don't want to have too much fire or too much wind or too much of anything. You want to find what's the. Just the right amount of these elements in any. Any organ or any functioning system.

Right. So there is no wind in the five elements.

Okay.

Just to mention it's wood, fire, earth, metal, and water.

Water. That's what we were missing, is water. Yeah.

Water is the kidneys. Yeah. So we do talk about the wind. And actually through liver, you can get wind if there's too much stagnation. And in Ayurveda, it's a little different. They do have ether, kind of like ether wind, because there's the three body types. And so there's ether wind, and then there's kapha, which is more earthy, and minerals, and then pitta, which is fire. So they took. It's interesting how in ancient cultures, they. A lot of times they really put interest in the elements and how they're relating to the body. And then they also have elements in food. So if you have, like, too much fire, you might want something that's more ether or more cooling.

So you would do the opposite because I. Yeah. So this is in the. In the Master stress book. Anyone who's listening, who's reading the book, open to the Clean eating chapter. And you'll see there's a whole section where I list, here's the foods that are fire, here's the foods that are, you know, so that you could. If you. If you're trying to create balance, like you're saying, Michelle, you would. If you're like, hey, I want to, you know, balance the fire with something cooling. So you would balance warming and cooling, Right?

Exactly. And so if somebody has, like, what we call a Yang deficiency. So yang is kind of like the element of heat. It's sort of like the heat aspect of nature. And if somebody has, like a Yang deficiency, which is. It's important to definitely bring it up, they would have things like cinnamon. And this is also Chinese medicine. Some of the herbs are that similar, right? Heating. Yeah.

So basically, if you think of it as being. If you're Yang deficient, you're cold, because Yang is fire. So if you're deficient in fire, that means you're cold, so you want to warm yourself back up. And we know that cinnamon. When you think of cinnamon and taste cinnamon, even in our culture, we use cinnamon in the winter to warm Us up.

Yep, exactly. And so that's another thing actually that you brought up that's interesting because especially in Ayurveda. In Ayurveda, when I studied that, we learned a little bit more about nutrition than we did in, in my school for Chinese medicine. We did brush upon it. But like in Ayurveda, it's really a significant amount of what we learn. And they talk about eating with the seasons and also eating with what is growing in your specific location.

Cool.

Yeah. And because it grows there for a reason. And so like if you look at like winter as it starts to get colder, and then you have in the fall pumpkins and all these orange foods. You know, it even has the color that's a little bit more warming and it actually has a warming effect. And there's a reason why it grows during that time in your location in your specific climate because it supports the body during that time as well.

When you're. When it's colder. Yeah, it's those like eat these warm. Eat sweet potatoes and pumpkin and yes these more in cinnamon and in more warming foods to balance. Because you know, it's not just balancing temperature either. It's actually balancing so much more in our bodies that we didn't even realize energetically.

Yes. It's amazing. It's. It's so simple. But I mean we have like now, you know, modern day, which isn't a terrible thing, but like we basically getting, we're in a cold climate, but we're like getting something shipped from a really warm climate. So it's like. Or that grows in a different type time of year. And so we don't normally think to do that because we don't have these like local farms as readily available. I mean we, there are, but not everybody. Like we have everything basically at the grocery store.

Yeah. So we don't realize what. We don't, we don't realize what would be eating seasonally. We have to kind of like go back to and go away. Like it's almost like that's where sometimes just going camping is nice because you're just like, we just get over kind of off the grid, so to speak, you know, and kind of like really connect back with what would living be like if we didn't have some of these advances. Even though sometimes they're, they're nice. But it's like, okay, what would this. How. What is our body really going to respond to Exactly.

It's like a disconnect.

And also the artificial light, you know, things like that definitely disrupt hormones Right.

Our bodies are so much paying attention to light and darkness and temperature and, you know, the seasons. And it's. Our bodies pick up on all these signals that if we're also. If we're in an office with no windows all day, staring at our computer, our bodies are not going to get these signals at all.

Oh, totally. And actually they've even done studies for kids at school and their grades were much higher when they had natural light versus artificial light.

And yeah. If they get to get outside during the day or get to. Yeah. Be interacting with nature. Yeah. I'm so glad we got to touch on this and including about Ayurvedic medicine. I always love when I. When I travel, I always love to go to practitioner, you know, traditional practitioners where. Where I am. Like when I go to, you know, when I went to India, you know, went to practitioner, went to ayurvedic practitioners there and in Sri Lanka, and I actually, I went to Hong Kong and I. I did see practitioner there. I mean, I'm sure you've probably done some of that same. But it's so it really helps me to understand too, like, really, the traditional medicine and how they're still used. You know, like, sometimes when we're just in the United States, we think this is the only system of medicine, you know, medicine. It's really not. There's so many other systems of medicine that have so many healing capabilities. I'm so glad you're bringing that to your clients to say, hey, we can use these systems of medicine and we. It's not either. Or you can add it to.

Oh, totally. Totally. I worked a lot of times with people that are doing ivf. And actually, just to mention what you just said, it was really interesting because I did go to India to my zor. And it was a place that did. It was an ayurvedic center and we did panchakarma, my husband and I. My husband was really such a trooper because it was not his idea. It was my idea, but he did. He's like, I'll try it, you know, and because, you know, there were enemas involved.

Yes. Not everybody's comfortable. It's so. It is. But it's like experience it.

Yeah. What was so cool about the place is we were staying there. It was gorgeous. Just a beautiful place. You're not only you're getting massages, but they grew their own foods right on site. Everything. And I believe even some herbs. So, like, everything was grown right where you were. It was really amazing.

Yeah. And they have Some, I mean, the Ayurvedic herbs too. So there's, there's Chinese herbs, by the way, when I was part of my training in naturopathic medicine is we have to do a certain amount of training in Chinese medicine. And I also took additional courses in Chinese herbs. And so there's basically, I think of it as like the herbs that likely these are herbs that grow in China, but also the herbs that we, they use in Chinese medicine. And there's some overlap between the herbs that are used in Chinese medicine and herbs we use in Western medicine. What's called Western medicine medicine. Also some of those same herbs might be used in Ayurvedic or Indian medicine. Like say, for example, ashwagandha. Right. So ashwagandha is, I would classically consider it an Ayurvedic herb, but it's used in different systems of medicine also. And all the research shows how much it helps with stress reduction. I mean, it's been traditionally used forever also thousands of years as a tonic in helping humans recover from stress. And now the more research we do, we see, oh, it's actually helping to decrease cortisol that's too high. So now we can actually see how it's helping people with stress. But it's, it's amazing, isn't it? Amazing, isn't it?

When they actually prove it and you're like, ah, this has been used. They knew what they're talking about forever.

Yeah, yeah. And it's, and to, I mean, just touching back on Ayurvedic medicine, it's also about creating balance. You mentioned the, you know, pitta, kapha, vada. It's all about those three kind of like tendencies I guess I would call them, and how to create balance between them and any, any individual. Right. If a person's leaning more toward kapha or more towards pitta, how are we going to change their diet? Or use different herbs.

Right.

Or different therapies, massage therapy, including, to help bring it back into a balance. So it's like no matter, you know, different systems of medicine. A lot of times the message is just using different herbs and different techniques to bring balance.

It's so simple. It really is simple. And what's beautiful about Ayurveda is that it really is something that you could take home with you that people could learn about and really apply just in their life, just by their food choices.

Yeah. So amazing. So it's. So I'm, yeah, I could see like if, you know, when you work with your clients, you, maybe you, you see what resonates with them. And then you. You choose from all these different tools to see what's going to help them.

Totally. Because, like, because some people don't resonate. Some people have a hard time with diet changes. So. And then some people are more receptive to, like, this, the de. Stress, you know, the mind. And I think that there's so many roads that lead to healing, and it doesn't have to be one specific way if you can master the mind. I really do think that if you can master the mind, just the mind. And I. I don't want to say, like, you're going to eat McDonald's and right at the same, but if you could just master the mind itself, you could heal so much. But that's. It's just a very hard thing to master. And that's why not everybody's able to get there. But just by the mind itself, they've seen that visualization really makes a difference on your physiology, that people's bodies respond to their thoughts. I mean, it's incredible.

I mean, in Ayurvedic or in India, of course, that's where they use a lot of meditation, which is so much influence on the mind. In Chinese medicine, I'm trying to think, is there also something.

Oh, qigong.

Qigong. And then there's. Yes. Which is. Qigong is so cool in Tai Chi, where it's also sort of a movement activity.

And I write about moving meditation. Yeah. To get the energy flow, you're actually affecting the meridians as you're moving. So you're getting a physical movement through it. You're getting a physical, like the chi movement through the movements that you're doing. And then also you're very intense. So you're mastering your mind as you're moving very intently. Mm.

Yeah. So cool. I've. I've really been. I'm always impressed with. Well, I've done a lot of meditation and some Tai Chi, but I really like it. And qigong. But it's. It is. It's so amazing to see. And of course, in. In India, there's yoga with meditation. Right. So it's. It's using movement and exercise with mindfulness, also part of these, in these systems of healing. Right. So we can learn from these systems of healing and be like, how do we implement that for each of us in our individual way to get the. The most benefit from that. Right. Like diet, movement and, you know, like, mindset work, helping to. Helping us understand our minds. I mean, I definitely think that, like, when, you know, I agree with you. Like, with the mind, it's. Sometimes what happens, I think, is that we, of course, when we're more overwhelmed and more stressed and our neurotransmitters get imbalanced, our hormones are out of balance, we're. Our mind is getting so many signals at once that we get into this place of overwhelm. And then we also have a lot of messages that are teaching us to be critical of ourselves. And so to some degree, in order to really master our minds, I think we have to first learn to sort out what are we. But what are the messages that are just sort of a learned critical thought and what are messages that are really our intuition? You know, this brings me back to even the beginning of you figuring out that you wanted to do this as your life path you had to sort through. What are these critical thoughts that are saying, you can not be an architect. You went to school, you paid for it, you know, you had to be able to say, okay, yeah, I can let that go and not. And not feel like that I'm stuck with that and allow my passion to guide me. And so you're a real model of how to, you know, master all of that. Right. How do we master the critical thoughts versus our true authentic.

Thoughts in our mind?

Yeah, and it's actually very similar to how the body heals itself because we. We just. Just awareness, just sitting in meditation. Because if we try to figure it out from the intricacies of all the different things that are. That are really by nature confusing. Yeah, they're confusing. They're going to confuse you. If you get into that thought and try to work it out, you'll never do that because it's too confusing. It's too much going on. And just by observation alone, just by getting into this awareness, then you're tapping into the same intelligence that creates homeostasis in your body. That same intelligence will also create alignment within your mind. And then naturally you will be drawn to whatever it is that you need, and things will start to unveil. I feel like that's where I get the most downloads intuitively, is when I allow. It's just that simple awareness. And it's interesting because, like, sometimes your thoughts, they'll try to lure you in, and then you're like, oh, and you get sucked into whatever that mental movie is or that feeling or that frustration or that victim thought, you know, because we've all had that. We've all been there. And then you just. When you just stop and watch and realize and not even fight it. Not even say, I can't do feel that way. Just watch it. Then you kind of drift into this, this observer, which is really who we truly are.

I love that. Oh, my gosh, Michelle, what a great conversation. It's a. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and your expertise. I mean, I really think this is. I'm hoping that listeners really have a new awareness for, you know, looking at health and life in general. Right. How do we choose? What are we going to choose in this life to focus on and prioritize and. And that it's possible that healing is possible in these ways.

Yeah, absolutely. Without a doubt. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Of course, of course. And I. I know you have your website under your name, right? Michelleorovitz.com and I'll put it in the show notes, too. Yes.

And then if anybody is going through fertility challenges, I host the Wholesome Fertility podcast. Lots of great experts like Dr. Donnie on there sharing amazing insights. So if you guys want to check it out, you can check it out there.

I love it. I love it. Thank you so much. And yeah, thanks again. I look forward to staying in touch.

Yeah, it was great talking to you, as always.

Thanks for listening to how humans heal.

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