#166 Myofascial Release Therapy: Bringing Your Body Back to Alignment with Marisa Chadbourne

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Dr. Donnie Wilson struggled for decades to solve her numerous health issues and heal her body. But with focused determination, she healed herself. And in doing so, she discovered the Dr. Donnie stress recovery protocol. On this show, you're going to hear from doctors, nutritionists, and Experts along with Dr. Donnie, who will give practical advice and wisdom to help heal your body. This is how humans heal.

Hi, and welcome to How Humans Heal. I'm excited to introduce you today to Marissa Chadbourn. She is a myofascial release therapist, and actually she's been my myofascial release therapist for many years. Thank you so much for joining us today, Marissa.

Thank you so much for having me, Donnie.

Definitely. I can't even tell people enough how much the work you've done to help me has helped me. And so I just want others to know about it because my fascia release is not something I think people are. Are as familiar with. And so we. We just want to break it down today, right? Like, what is it? Why do we need it? What kind of situations does it help with? And. And then where we can go from there, including. I want to. I'm hoping to touch a little bit on how it can even help with trauma and recovering from trauma. So. So anyone who's listening, those are the types of things we're going to be talking about. But first, Marissa, just tell us a little bit, like, how did you even get inspired to. To be offering this service to people?

Well, it helped me on my own healing path. I was a massage therapist for a few years, and I attended the seminar, and I was really amazed by the body's ability to heal itself. So I sought out a therapist. I had some shoulder injuries, an old injury that showed up years later, and it was stopping me from being able to work. So I went for a series of sessions with her, and that's what really inspired me to delve deeper into the work and continue to take the classes that it completely healed the injury that I had going on.

Wow. So you're like, okay, this is beyond massage. I mean, that's a lot of times how I quickly describe it to people is. I'll say this is like, beyond massage therapy, because I think people are familiar with massage therapy in general. Maybe you can give us a sense of, like, what is myofascial release and how is it different than massage?

Yes, absolutely. So myo means muscle and fascia is connective tissue, and myofascial release is A connective tissue therapy designed to bring the body back into its natural alignment by releasing fascial restrictions. And in turn this increases our range of motion and it also takes pressure off of pain sensitive structures within the body. So all different types of injuries. Even I work with people who have autoimmune disorders, neurological dysfunction. There's many, many layers to what type of people and conditions that can help too.

And so compared to massage, I mean, because massage is also working in the, in the muscles and to some degree the fascia. But just so people understand what's different.

About it is that it ultimately we are focusing on the fascia where massage is touching on it. But our main focus is to release fascia restrictions to bring the body back into normal alignment. So we do this by using gentle sustained pressure of five minutes or more to make a very specific change within the connective tissue. So massage has more of a technique of using more soft tissue mobilization massage techniques. So I would say the biggest difference is not only the techniques but also the intent. We're looking to bring the body back into its normal alignment so we can open up the whole entire fascial system. So I'll use this analogy often is when someone comes in and they say that they have neck pain, but I'm looking at their pelvis and how, what type of pelvic balance that they have. So why are you doing that? When I have neck pain and I use the analogy often of someone who had a straight jacket on, if we have multiple fascial restrictions, it feels that kind of uncomfortability of being restricted and also having different qualities of pain. So if we're going to open up the straight jacket, we're not just going to open up one band, we're going to open up the entire jacket. So we're really focusing on making a change with the entire fascial system instead of just focusing on one part of the body.

What I was going to say is that it really points out that this fascia system is a system. It's like. And I think this is not something we're used to, to thinking about or talking about. I mean the fascia is, is around the muscles, outside of the muscles, kind of holding the muscles in place. I mean, tell us more. Like when you say connective tissue and fascia and this fascial system, how can people get a sense of that? Because it's, you know, again, it's not something you can really see and even a lot of anatomy textbooks don't even represent it very well.

Yes, it's fascinating to like the newer research that we have the last 10 years, when we started studying human living fascia rather than cadavers, we saw that it operated completely different. And one of those ways that we saw was that the fascial system is omnipresent throughout the human body as one continuous web like structure connecting all parts and systems together. So it's the only system in the body that actually comes in contact with every other system right down to the cellular level.

It is not something. It literally is holding us together.

Yes, it is. Actually. It has three major components. Elastin fibers, which give our bodily movement, it's elasticity and stretch. Collagen fibers that give our physical structural support. And another component that's called ground substance, which is this gel like substance. That job is to metabolize our soft tissues. And it also plays a large role in intercellular communication. So this matrix of collagen, elastin and ground substance is actually what gives us the tension needed for biotensegrity. This is what holds our bodies upright and gives us the ability to be upright in gravity and to be able to move through life physically. Without the fascial system, the muscles and bones would just be like a blob on the floor. So biotensegrity is a major part of its function and how we move and operate.

Amazing. And yet at the same time, it can kind of get into little knots, Right? Like little restrictions, you call them.

Yes. When we say there is a fascial restriction, what we're mainly saying is that ground substance, part of the fascial system, starts to become solidified. And when that happens, the elastin fibers, collagen muscle fibers, they get stuck in the solidification and then they're unable to slide across each other to do their job correctly. So this will in turn stiffen movement and put pressure on pain sensitive structures. And then the four things that cause this solidification for the fascial restriction is surgery. Repetitive movement, inflammatory responses, and also trauma, whether it be physical or emotional trauma.

Whoa. So even emotional trauma can cause this ground substance to kind of. I almost think of it like it's almost getting like cement or something. And then nothing. Nothing. Then house. And if things can't move correctly, then of course we're going to feel stiff and we're going to feel sore and we're going to. And we're more likely to injure ourselves, I would think.

Yes, absolutely. And it can happen. It's just in response to our thoughts, our environment, or again, anything that that's Happening to us in an emotional way just because of the mind, body connection. You know, the mind and the fascia are very closely, have a close relationship and how they respond to each other.

It's amazing, right? Like, I think that probably listeners will probably go, oh, I've always wondered if, you know, if my, say, psychological or emotional stress is affecting me on a, on a physical level. Do you find out that people like, might be experiencing pain, even what might be called fibromyalgia or, or arthritis, but then it turns out that it was related to their emotional stress and trauma exposure?

Absolutely. And I find that that's really what we're looking at in myofascial release is what was the cause for your restriction. And so we allow for there to be many different types of healing, structural healing, somatic healing. Some people do have an emotional release and some people do not. It really depends on the type of healing that they're looking for. But it completely impacts the body, I think, much farther than people are aware of.

Yeah, I bet you've seen so many different scenarios working with patients for so many years with this approach.

Yes. And what's fascinating too is when someone does have emotional release, they don't have to have a cognitive story behind it. In fact, it's more powerful if we just allow the emotion to become up, to be felt and to be let go. It doesn't have to have a story attached to it in order for it to, I guess you could say, transform or move. Whenever we do open up a fascial restriction, it's like opening up the dam of energy flow, opening up the dam for more of this intercell communication to operate smoothly. So when we say emotion, a lot of times we're referencing it as like energy in motion. And when a moment of trauma happens in our lives, that energy, that energy, emotion can actually get stuck in that solidification. So as we are working and making that ground substance, that gel like substance back to its normal gel like state, that energy is released sometimes from that mo, that moment of trauma. And that's what people are, are feeling in that, that those times.

And really even just to point out that it's possible to release, you know, this myofascial. So if someone knows they've had trauma, whether physical trauma or an injury or a surgery or, you know, or emotional trauma, and, and they're feeling it and they start to realize, oh my gosh, I may have some myofascial restrictions, they can be released, it can be healed is what you're saying.

Yes, absolutely. And the somatic work does take a little bit more part for the client to be able to let go. Somatic healing. I really just want to say that it's our ability to listen to our body and what our body needs to heal. And we. That happens when we leave our thinking space and then we start to enter our feeling space. So when we can let go in that way and allow intuitive movement to take over the process.

And it's hard to follow that intuitive movement for some of us, Some of us are really busy in our brains, and it can take a lot of work to get into that feeling space. But when we follow our instincts and allow our body to lead us, that's when most likely those somatic emotional responses will happen. And I'd just like to note that animals do this very naturally. They, you know, they have an instinctual brain, and humans are capable of it too. But our rational brain will get in the way. And we'll say that's weird. And we'll stop ourselves from, from doing it, even in those moments of trauma. So when we can really let go of the. The judgment of that might be weird from our rational brain and really step into our instinctual side, that's when those, those emotions are most likely to come up. So there is some work on the client's part as well. When we're just focusing on structural, that is, you know, we're, we're. We're both always working together in relationship with one another. But I would say the emotional really is more on the client being able to let go and let those feelings come up. We're just offering a safe space for them to be felt.

I'm glad you're clarifying that. And it's. And just so people have a sense of it. Usually myofascial therapy is you're on a massage table, you know, like you would be with massage, but you have your clothes on. Is that, that's common, right? You have your clothes on and then you're doing the treatment, you know, different than massage, where you might have removed some of your clothes.

Yes. And that's for two reasons. One, so we could see how the body's responding the entire treatment. And also, if that intuitive movement starts to happen, you don't feel restricted in your movement. You're not going to stop yourself from moving a certain way because you don't want to be exposed, or you want the blanket to come off. But it's for both of those reasons.

And if someone's thinking of finding someone close to them who offers this. What should they be looking for? How do you identify a practitioner with the. Because I know it took you a lot of training to. To be offering this service. So how does someone find that and. And be able to find someone they can trust?

Well, there's a wonderful directory called MFR Therapists as a directory of other practitioners who have my specific training. So myofascial release, I just would like to say, too, is also an umbrella term. I have specifically studied the John F. Barnes type of myofascial release where we take into account structural, subtle energy and that somatic healing part as well.

I got you. So other, other training programs might not be taking that into account.

Yes, a lot of them will just focus on. On structure. But there are, there are other types of therapies too, that will integrate structural, you know, with subtle energy techniques. But I just found that this style of myofascial release went really, really deep into the study of how this happens, how to facilitate it and really how to support your client and being comfortable in letting go in that way.

Tell me.

I would say that there's. There's all different names for it too. So someone might have. Where they're working with the fascial system, but it is only structural. And it does have a different name, but it's still considered a type of myofascial body work. Again, because it's. We're working with the muscle and the connective tissue.

I was going to say, because you previously also were trained in craniosacral therapy, and I know sometimes you still integrate that in.

Yes, absolutely. And those two schools of thought. Go, go. Just. I would say they're almost sister therapies because again, we're talking about supporting someone going through some type of emotional release if that's meant to be in that session. But also the view of the practitioner, where. Where's the practitioner in that moment where we really are trained to stay present and heart centered so that we can create that supportive energy for them in the room. And I would say that that is the biggest, biggest similarities between those two therapies. They do have different intentions, but they go well together.

Yeah.

Yeah, I could see that. And I can see, you know, based on, you know, just I observe, you know, as you're doing your work on me, and I also observe how, for me, and in a myofascial release session, I, I really feel myself go into like a meditative state.

Is that common? Is that, you know, is that what people experience is just kind of like a deep relaxation?

Yes, absolutely. I think that it does stimulate the parasympathetic nerve, parasympathetic system and in turn the vagus nerve. So we do do go into that deep relaxation state and I think that's when we have that opportunity to be able to let go a little bit deeper because we're not in this place of thought.

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But I'd also like to bring up too is sometimes I'll get phone calls of someone saying I have trauma stuck in my body. I would like to come with you to get it out. And I always let them know we always go in with a structural intention and if it happens naturally we know how to facilitate it. But we don't go in with the intention of okay, we're going to go get this, this out of you today. It's just more of like this is an environment that if it again it happens naturally, we know how to support and facilitate.

Yes, it was like let's open up the space. And if the body in the, and the person and the energy feels ready and is in that place and you're, you're like okay, here we're giving this space an opportunity for it to happen. But if we go in with too much expectation and you know some, I think a lot of times we, we try to like force things and then that can almost just like work against us, right?

Yes, absolutely. Because there's some people who, they don't, they, they need rest, their body knows what it needs to heal itself. So when you come and you're coming into that meditative state, your body knows I need rest today where someone else's body knows I might need to move something that is stuck in my tissue, you know, and that's what we're leaving it up to is the person's Innate ability to heal themselves. So we also don't come in with any judgment of what that looks like. That's what that is for that person.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Really beautiful. To be able to hold that space and, and to give that opportunity for healing. And it's also, would you say, I mean, I know for myself now I have, I was in a mention, I have Ehlers Danlos syndrome, so I have hypermobility and I have collagen gene variations. And so for my body I think I'm probably more prone to these fascial restrictions. And so I've found that this therapy has been really helpful for when I do get in pain and helping to release it, but also for maintenance and preventing pain. So how do people know, like how you know how much are people coming in when they're in a pain state versus maintenance?

Yeah, that's a great question. And I do like to leave it up to the client as well. I find that body, having body awareness is such an important part of our healing process of having like empowerment of how we can support ourselves out of treatment. So I really encourage people after their first session and to continue to tune into their body to see how their body felt over the next few days, over the next few weeks. And if they would like to come in sooner than later, then they could make another appointment. But I think that that way of looking at it kind of again encourages them to look within what is my body telling me rather than what my practitioner says. So once people find that rhythm of what they need for maintenance, you know, they can make that decision on their own and they've made it from an innate place instead of being told. I always tell everybody though, if you want to make a lot of change quickly, closer to be together in the beginning is can be very important. We call them like a myofascial intensive series where you come in three to five times over a one to two week span and we get a lot of change made over that time and then it's more likely for that, that change to also stay with the person. We also teach people how to do self myofascial release at home. So that opening that we made, again, continue to make that opening on your own, continue to feel into your body and then you can feel where you're restricted. So it's really, I want to say it's such a. What I love about this work is the relationship of both the client and the practitioner doing work together and then teaching them how to do it on their own.

Yeah, you learn so much about your own body and the process and what it needs and when it's trying to so much, we, we aren't listening to the signals our body's giving us. But through this, you really start to learn, oh, that's what my body was trying to tell me with that pain or that that's those other symptoms that were coming up. Right. It could cause, could cause headache, it could cause vision changes. It could cause, you know, might not just be pain in your body. It might. And it might even, I don't know, I'm imagining people might even find, oh, I'm not sleeping well, or I'm feeling anxious. And it turns out that it was related to. Or fatigued and it turns out that they were having restrictions that were just causing them to feel tired.

Yes, absolutely. There's so many different symptoms that people come in with. It's not just pain, it's all of the above that you listed. And I really find a lot of people who, again, who have autoimmune disorder, neurological dysfunction, that they really benefit from the work as well. It almost helps with a lot of the symptoms that go along with, you know, I know it's a vast amount of symptoms, but we work with anything because we really look at that symptom is just what is it telling you? What is this the signal coming in? And that's really, I think the most important part of the facilitation is getting. Having the client get in touch with what is that signal telling you? You know, it's not on a conscious level. It is on a subconscious level. What it, what is it here for? What is it here to teach you? So this is, there is this other again part that isn't just purely structural. We're looking at the body as a whole mind, body and energy and how they are always working together.

Amazing. Really beautiful. I mean, it's, again, it's made, it's made such a difference for me and, and my body and, you know, being able to really see the difference. When, when I'm, you know, when we're, when I'm doing regular treatments with you, then it's like, okay, I know that I'm going to have, you know, I just. Everything's going to feel better and much less likelihood to get into, into, you know, symptomology. I was, as you were saying that I was thinking also inflammation. You mentioned inflammation as a trigger for this, for these restrictions and, and you know, say with autoimmunity and, and other health issues. That's often the case is this high level of inflammation. So I could see where it would help to combine like say a person's making diet changes that might be dropping inflammation, balancing blood sugar, maybe balancing cortisol levels. So their, their inflammation is coming down, their body's resetting and recovering and then this in addition could work together, would you say?

Oh, yes, absolutely. In fact, that's what I'll recommend to most people who are coming in. And we know it's the inflammatory response that's causing the fascial restriction is what does your diet look like? Are you adding more inflammation in? And there's very basic knowledge that I have and if someone needs to go to the next level, then I'll refer them out to someone who's a functional nutritionist or a naturopathic doctor like yourself to help them with that.

Yeah, yeah. Because then it's like you get the, the benefit of both working synergistically to like also to be able to have better maintenance. Right. So it's like if inflammation is coming down and the body's healing, then there's less likelihood of repeated issues coming up. It, it moves into maintenance much faster, I'm sure.

Yes. Because we don't want to just keep continuing releasing the same fascia restriction. So if we know what's causing it, that there's this structural issue causing it a repetitive movement, the inflammatory response. What we're going to do is find out how can you change that movement? How can you change that inflammatory response? We don't want to just have you keep coming in so we can keep releasing it. Releasing it, releasing it. So again, as someone who it's from repetitive movement, like take someone like myself who uses their body for a living, I have to change my ergonomics in order for those restrictions not to come back. Or perhaps somebody has a compensatory pattern from some type of physical movement they've been doing their whole life. I recommend that they also go have physical therapy along with myofascial release. We're just. If we can continue to release the fascia restrictions, but if you're not strengthening in the way that's going to stop them from continuing to restrict. We're not really going to end the cycle. So it's. I, I feel like a lot of my sessions are coupled with who can we refer you out to along with doing this type of work, along with doing the self myofascial release on yourself at home, like let's stop the cycle and get well. And then other people who do have conditions that are going to continue throughout their life, they will come in for a maintenance program. But someone who's had, let's say, a motor vehicle accident, you're not going to recreate that motor vehicle accident. Hopefully not. So if we're going to release the restrictions from that motor vehicle accident, those aren't going to be coming back. But a lot of the times those types of accidents also do create emotional trauma. So it's the physical trauma from the motor vehicle accident and that moment of impact where you had emotional trauma as well. Like they're kind of binded together in the tissue.

Yeah. And as humans, I mean, that's the thing where we are going to be exposed to some forms of. Of these things that cause myofascial restriction. You know, it's like, it's. I don't think, like, probably anyone's not like, immune to it. Right. It's. It's so common, these, you know, some sort of injury or, or inflammation or trauma. And so I really think it's important for everybody to be aware that this is something they can pay attention to. And then what I find is when you do a treatment on me, then if, say, if there's like, vertebrae that are not aligned, all of a sudden they shift on their own. I stand up and next thing I know is like, oh, my. Now my spine is realigned because it's like it was only being held in a wrong place because of the restrictions. Right. And then it just shifts back into a healthy position.

Yep, absolutely. And that's why it does work well, coupled with other therapies, too. I'm a big fan of chiropractic, and I feel like it's really wonderful to have a myofascial session to get that alignment, but then to have it reinforced, you know, if you like that type of therapy. I just feel like it goes well with many different types of therapies because the fascia interacts and has relationships with all the systems of our body. So whether we're working with a muscle injury, we're working with something that might be more osteopathic, I feel that the fascial system being open and flowing correctly is only going to support. Support the healing of whatever other next practitioner you're going to see or if this is what's happening for you. So since there's been the diagnosis myofascial pain dysfunction, mainstream medicine is now looking at the fascial system more than ever.

So official ICT 10 code or something. Wow.

It is. Yes. And it makes me think too, a lot of people who have Been given the fibro fibromyalgia diagnosis today. They may be given the myofascial pain dysfunction diagnosis. You know, because the symptoms are very similar. The diffused achy pain.

Yeah, I. I'm sure. Okay, wonderful. So I know Your website is touchofhealth ny, so new york.com and I'll put a link below so people can learn more about your work and. And certainly if you're local to Long island, you can. Long Island, New York. You can even come into. You have your. Your new office coming up soon here. So that's exciting. And. And then is, you know, is it okay if you. I know you also. Time. Sometimes do offer group classes and things online too. So I just want people to know that there's more they can learn from you.

Yes. Thank you. Yeah. The new space that we're moving to in Sable this July will have room for a small classroom. So I've been predominantly doing all the self myofascial release classes online, but now we'll have. We'll be able to do them in person.

Wonderful. Oh, wow. Well, thank you so much for. For everything you do and, you know, for your just, you know, really passion for this and passion for helping people and for coming to share all of that with us today.

Oh, well, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me too. I really appreciate the opportunity to share with everybody.

Is there anything else you wanted to share that we didn't get to touch on?

No, that's. That's about it. There's. There's a multitude of layers. I could probably talk about Fasha for days, so.

I love it. I love it.

This is great because, like, I think even just for people to know that it's a thing, I mean, even to just be familiar with how to spell it and how to say it and. And that it exists throughout our bodies and in that, I think we should be as familiar with it as we are with muscles and bones and nerves. Right.

And I do feel it's going in that direction. We have the fascial research Congress in Europe. And every year, more scientists, more doctors joining, there's more research happening. And I do believe our traditional books will be changed to get more in depth with the fascial system as time goes on.

Oh, wonderful. That's amazing. Oh, cool. So thank you again so much, Marissa, and I'll talk to you soon.

Okay, thanks. Bye.

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