#188 How Psilocybin Microdosing can Reset our Nervous System with Aya Allison

The information provided in this podcast is educational and not intended to diagnose or treat medical conditions.

Dr. Donnie Wilson struggled for decades to solve her numerous health issues and heal her body. But with focused determination, she healed herself, and in doing so, she discovered the Dr. Donnie stress recovery Protocol. On this show, you're going to hear from doctors, nutritionists and Experts along with Dr. Donnie, who will give practical advice and wisdom to help heal your body. This is how humans heal.

Hi and welcome to how humans heal. I'm Dr. Donnie Wilson, and in today's episode, we're going to be talking about psilocybin microdosing with a coach and educator, Aya Allison, who specializes in microdosing of psilocybin and how to help people understand it and what is up and coming in this area. So thank you so much for joining me today, Aya.

Oh, I am so, so excited to dig into this conversation. You know, being a mindset coach and a microdosing educ, my role is to help people get the best information possible so that they're not out there just randomly researching and getting random information. Because, you know, the goal here is for people to be very well informed, feel very safe and empowered when they're thinking about this type of journey or protocol.

And that's the thing, is a lot more people are hearing about microdosing, thinking about microdosing. Tell us more what you're seeing in that trend.

It's been pretty fascinating. You know, personally, on, on a personal level, I got involved in the underground in the plant medicine space in 2012. You know, having been being in LA, I had clients start coming to me as a coach saying, what do you know about mushrooms? Psilocybin microdosing. You know, around 2014, 15, you know, they were starting to be a trend, and then it just went up and to the right. I mean, everyone, like people all the time, people say, who's the demographic? It's anyone who's curious about another way to look at how to, you know, navigate mental health. Because people are really, really waking up and realizing that there are very powerful natural ways to get more regulation to all of these central nervous system issues that conveniently get 40 different labels and then there's 40 different pharmaceuticals that you could take.

Oh, my gosh, it's such a good point. I'm so glad you're bringing that up about just the mental health crisis and how many people are experiencing anxiety, depression, let alone other types of mental illness.

Tell us.

I mean, I know you have some experience in that area too. Is that what led you to learn more about microdosing?

So for myself personally, you know, I. Ayahuasca really helped me. Suicide and depression runs in my family. Part of my family actually is Cherokee. And so there's a history of, like, suicide and mental illness in my family. I personally was dealing with suicidal ideation. I absolutely did not want to go the pharmaceutical route. And ayahuasca, of course, as it does, came to me. And I spent about a year thinking about if it was something that, you know, I wanted to get involved with. And it had a significant benefit for me. You know, I say there was before ayahuasca and after. And with that, I'm a researcher, you know, so I wanted to know. I was like, what just happened? You know, because I'm very, very, very interested in the science and, you know, all the, you know, the neurobiology and all the things. And so as I got down into it, and I was like, oh, okay, right. It helped my gut. So start making. Having a better conversation with my brain, right? Because, you know this, right. Of course there's this fungal overload. The fungus is distorting the conversation. And ayahuasca is a powerful antifungal. So it set me on the path of like, well, what else is out there? You know, that's super helpful, and how do we do it in a way that's practical, that we can integrate into our daily lives? Because not everyone has the luxury of taking time off to go do these big journeys. And so as I began doing the research and I realized how beneficial microdosing can be, you know, I looked at it on the psilocybin level, and then I had clients coming to me asking questions. So that's, you know, it just kind of went from there.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for sharing that. And just for anyone who's new to this whole type of conversation of what we're really referring to are plant medicines. I mean, you could even say herbs, but they're from plants that have psychedelic properties. And it's in those psychedelic properties that we see a lot of healing. What I is also mentioning is microdosing. So a lot of times, traditionally, these substances are used in what might be called macrodosing. And you'll explain more about that. And that's where you get more of the psychedelic experience. In a microdose, there's not the psychedelic experience, but there's still a lot of neurological healing that happens. Tell us more about that.

So what's really. And thank you for setting that up. So, well, because there's a lot of sort of, you know, convoluted information out there. It's like, oh, if I don't see colors, nothing happened. Right? But the truth is, you take your fish oil supplement and what's happening, you know, do you take your fish oil supplement, you have a profound experience that's like changing your life. No, but you do have something that happens over time. You know, when we take supplements, when we do these things, there are shifts that are happening within the body quietly. And I encourage people to think about microdosing as the same thing. So it's sub perceptive, right? You have a sub perceptive experience. Now, this doesn't mean nothing is happening. What it means is that in your subconscious, in the neurons, right in, you know, the nervous system, the re regulation is happening slowly. So I tell people, think of it like going to the gym, you know, the first day you go to the gym, okay? It's not like, ooh, I look great. It takes time, right? And with mushrooms, psilocybin, it's a slow uptake process, so the change is gradual. And what's really beautiful about a microdosing protocol is our ego or our, you know, default mode network or our ingrained patterns. It happens so kind of subtly. It doesn't resist the way we could when we're having a deeper journey where sometimes people are like, oh, I don't want to see that. With microdosing, it can be so subtle that other people around you notice your patterns are shifting and it's like, oh, oh, that's right. That doesn't bother me anymore or I do feel better or whatever it may be. So in some ways, because it is sub perceptive, the ego or our natural tendencies, you know, kind of, it's almost like they kind of, it kind of moves around it and it's able to create those shifts without as much resistance.

It's, it's really so amazing how these plant substances can be so healing to the human nervous system, body in so many different ways. I was going to just also clarify that. Psilocybin, which is P S. Let's see if I can spell it right. P S, I, L, O, C, Y, B, I, N. Right. Psilocybin is a substance that's in certain mushrooms. Sometimes people call it like a magic mushroom. And these mushroom. And there's different mushrooms that contain psilocybin and we can extract the psilocybin. So when, let's talk about what that, what a macro dose versus a microdose in terms of Quantity, macro dose might be over a thousand.

Milligrams or over one gram or. Tell us, tell me more how we determine macro versus micro doses.

These are all excellent questions, you know, and also parameters. And what's really fascinating is people have a pretty huge debate on what a microdose is, but it's pretty clear what a macro dose is. So with the microdose, it's very clear. When you're having visuals and you're having a whole experience, for a lot of people, they would say that's around three grams, right? Three plus three grams. Yeah. So three grams is a standard three grams. You know, three to five grams. You're, you know, you're in the standard microdose, macrodose territory. What's really fascinating is what, what I have found, because people share their experiences with me all the time in, in my work, is there's this strange spot in dosing where it's one gram. Is this strange in between, where it's almost like when you're not quite awake or asleep, where you're not quite. You're feeling something, but you're not in a psychedelic experience. So the fascinating thing about dosage is it does very, very different things at different dosages. So when we go into micro, you know, we'd say 5, 0, 50 milligrams would be a microdose. But there are people who can feel it. There's never colors. There's not an experience. But there are very sensitive people who can feel it, which is why we talk about the energetics of psilocybin, because it works in a very energetic level. And people may think, oh, that's because of somebody's body weight or tolerance, whatever, et cetera, et cetera. It's really fascinating how that can work. And, you know, that's sort of like TBD on why. And this is why it's helpful to collect people's stories and find out more about their personal experiences.

Well, to that end, I would love to just give people more of a sense of what are the various kinds of health issues or changes they might experience. Because we mentioned about mental health, you know, say, anxiety, depression, shifts in the nervous system. But what are other health issues that you find people are considering this type of approach to help them with.

But it's what's really fascinating about this. And you find out later it's like, oh, I see why Psilocybin is Schedule 1, because it would put pharmaceutical companies out of business. You know, one of the, like, a huge benefit of microdosing is and and, and again, when. When people sort of go into these, into these protocols, they're not necessarily expecting these outcomes. It's great for smoking cessation, for people who want to stop drinking, for people who have sugar addictions, for people who have circadian rhythm issues, for people who have focus issues. I can't tell you how many people have gotten off of Adderall by microdosing. You may know, you may not know there was an Adderall shortage recently. And I had stories of people microdosing, and they never went back to Adderall or Vyvanse or whatever, you know, amazing. So, but it also, you know, it's. It's creating more conversation within the brain, to different parts of the brain that you might not always have access to. And it's toning down some of the noise that's going on in the brain. So it can allow for these amazing flow states, right? And it can allow for this crisp focus. And again, people hear mushrooms and they're like, who's going to be focusing? But that's why the dosage is so important to understand. You know, it's like, you're not probably going to drown in the bathtub, but you clean the ocean, right? But it's still a body of water, you know. So I just remind people, like we're talking about such a small amount, and it does something very, very, very different in the brain.

It's. It really is so amazing and interesting to be able to go into it and, and see what's possible. But I know a lot of people are still feeling hesitant or afraid about, you know, this concept. How do you help talk people through that if they're feeling hesitant about what, what they might experience or what, what might happen if they try microdosing?

Well, you know, as an educator, my goal is to, of course, first and foremost, give information. I tell people I am not an advocate because it's up to you to make your decision. Right. You know, we think about all these labels that get put on everyone so that they feel pressured to take a certain drug, take a certain pharmaceutical. It's like, oh, well, I need this. I'm not going to tell anyone. They need, you know, to microdose. What I will give them, first of all, is, is all the information that I can that is, it's accurate. It's, you know, it's up to date. It's relevant to what they have going on. Because one of the things that I ask people when they're looking for information, I'm like, what are you what problem are you looking to solve? Right. And what other health issues have you had? You know, and what are you taking now? You know, try to get a, like a very clear picture so that first and foremost, somebody feels support reported and in unlike, you know, sorry to say, you know, some doctors or psychiatrists that are just like, here you go, here's your meds, you know, and I'm not saying there's an evaluation, but, you know, when I'm educating, I want to help understand, you know, what's going on. The other thing is, is that, you know, to be honest, there is a long history, a long ancestral history of, you know, native peoples everywhere using nature as their medicine cabinet. So this is also something, I mean, you know, it's, it's again, part of my lineage is Cherokee and it's like we're steeped in natural wisdom. So that's one of the things I remind people. As we become so disconnected from the natural world, we start to fear and dismiss what we don't understand. And so I try to help people get to the root of where some of this can come from so that they start to, you know, ask some questions and get into that critical thinking and move out of a fear state into more of an executive brain function state so that when we're sharing information, it's already, you know, they're already in an executive function state versus like, I already, I don't know, I'm, I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm uncertain. So preparing an audience is very helpful when they're receiving information, just for starters.

Thank you for, for saying that. And, and also, let's get into the legalities, the current legalities related to psilocybin in the United States. It's different in every country in the world, right? I mean, so we, so some listeners may be in various places. You're going to want to look into the status of psilocybin in your location at this moment in time because it's changing rapidly, right?

Changing rapidly. Yeah. And, and what's really fascinating is like the research that's going on where as a place, for example, there's places in like Arizona just voted last year to invest, you know, millions of dollars into research. But it's not legal. You know, it's not legal there. Texas with like Dell Medical center, they got like a $30 million research grant to research the benefits specifically of psilocybin, you know, on ptsd, long haul Covid symptoms, which, you know, all of these things. But DC, DC decriminalized I think, in 2021. And just to be clear, decriminalization means law officials make prosecution the lowest priority. So basically, if you were caught with, let's say, actual physical mushrooms, they most likely would dismiss it because local ordinance state that there's not enough funding to the courts to prosecute. So decriminalization doesn't mean it's legal, but it also means it's a strange gray space to navigate. But it basically means as long as you aren't eating mushrooms out in public and going wild, no one cares if you have mushrooms. Right? And so decriminalization has happened in Oakland, Ann Arbor, like I said, D.C. it's. It's happened in 17 cities across the U.S. but then you have states like Oregon that has legalized and is going with like a medical model of treatment. You have a state like Colorado that is decriminalized, and it is the process of, in like implementing like a legalization medical model. So every state is different. But the one thing that I personally know from knowing so many attorneys in the space, this is a low, low, low priority. You are more likely to be in trouble for a significant amount of cannabis or cannabis in a state where it's not recreationally legal state like Texas, then mushrooms, because there is this interesting stigma on something like cannabis. So mushrooms are in a strange gray state, you know, sort of, of, of legalization, not legal, but it's not a high priority. So when people are feeling anxious, it's just something important for them to know, like there are no mushroom sniffing dogs at the airport.

And especially when it comes to microdosing, it's even less on the radar.

Even less on the radar. And because you can get it in various forms, gummies, chocolates, you know, again, your cannabis product probably has a smell. Psilocybin does not, especially not in product form.

So what I'm, you know, I'm here more and more people who, when I ask about it or mention it, they're more likely to kind of say, oh, yes, I'm familiar with that, or yes, I've tried that. And so I know that a lot of people are finding ways to, to access it. And which is why I'm so glad to be having this conversation with you. Because I feel like if this is something people are interested in and already finding ways to use it and yet maybe don't have enough information or education about it, then I'm like, hey, let's make sure there is information. And also so that people can really see that this is. There's so much healing potential with this substance. So let's just say, just for anyone who may be not aware, why is it that it's not legal? Why is it that it's considered Schedule 1?

This is an excellent question and we could talk for the rest of the podcast about this, but specifically in the 70s, right, when there were lots of Vietnam War protests and there were, you know, you know, groups like the Black Panthers and there were these liberation movements when they were meeting, protesting, etc, what the feds found that they were carrying were things like cannabis and mushrooms. Okay? Now we know that these are things that open up your mind and, and they cause neuroplasticity and people think differently. So, and this is all from like LBJ's, you know, third in command, who was, it was, he was tasked with shutting the these groups down. And so the way to put them into prison was to create those, like Schedule 1, put those specific substances as Schedule 1. So it was LSD, it was cannabis. Because cannabis is Schedule 1, Schedule 1. Okay, up there with heroin, right? Cannabis, heroin, LST, psilocybin, Schedule 1, so that they could put them away. Right? And that's specifically, he did an interview and that's specifically why, right? So these are substances that help people think for themselves and they start to take action against things like war or, you know, things that are happening to people, you know, you know, it caused civil unrest, right? But this is what happens when you have a society that thinks for themselves. So now fast forward to a time where people don't trust pharmaceutical companies. There's been tons of lawsuits. There are all of these things. People aren't getting better. They're just customers for life. They're like, I don't think this is helping. They're looking for other solutions. So I mean, we, I, I talk about it all the time with like colleagues and clients. It's like, you know, if these things were legal, pharmaceutical companies would be out of business. So at the end of the day, follow the money. Follow the money. If you want answers, follow the money. You know, because this isn't about you becoming healthy. This is about you being a customer. When it comes to a lot of the western medical, you know, models that are in place. And you know that as well as I do. So I just tell people, do your own research and think about that and think about like, you know, the natural world, like nature isn't trying to make money from you, it's just offering you again, all of these herbs that you been told are scary and bad and drugs.

Interesting type of branding that's going on there. People are really starting to wake up.

HPV positive. I invite you to attend my free online workshop called Five Days to Heal hpv. Sign up today and access a proven protocol that has helped thousands of women around the world. I will teach you how to understand your Pap results and what's making you susceptible to this virus so that you can take precise action. Let's work together to help get HPV to negative heal abnormal cells and also to keep it negative and become resilient. I'll see you there. Well, and this is the thing. I'm so glad you mentioned this because, I mean, the difference is that heroin is a greatly addictive substance, whereas psilocybin is not an addictive substance. So tell us like more so people really understand, like, because if we've been brainwashed to think this is equal to a, you know, a very risky drug, but actually now we're learning. No, it's a way different thing. It just got thrown into the same category.

It's super important for people to understand, first of all, mushrooms, they are anti addictive, right? We talked about it. It helps people who are smokers stop smoking. It helps people who want to stop drinking stop drinking. It helps people with sugar cravings because it's re patterning your brain to go from that more amygdala, you know, the limbic, the monkey mind into executive functions which are like, huh, I don't want that, right? As opposed to like you just snap into craving or, you know, that automated, you know, pattern, you know, it's like, okay, you just need to start asking yourself some questions. Just like, wait a minute, how are mushrooms and cannabis with heroin? Right? That in itself is like big question marks. But again, the other thing about mushrooms is you can build a tolerance to them at higher dosages very quickly because they basically stack in your system. So you basically cannot get addicted to mushrooms because the, the amount of mushrooms you would have to take, let's say for people who are like, oh, you know, I take a microdose every day. Well, very quickly that is not going to work because it stacks in your system. So anyone who's doing protocols, you always want to have a day in between or you want to have time off. And that again, that's another indicator. Unable to get addicted because it's not something that you can actually take every day because the efficacy of it will drop quickly over time.

Well, I want to go two different directions based on this. One is to say that the healing that people experience, even with the use of microdosing is lasting healing. So a person doesn't need to be taking these substances forever. They might take it for a period of time, experience healing, and then may not need that substance for a while. So it's not, it's not like you're reliant on it forever. And then I want to go into the protocols that do exist and that you've just mentioned. But maybe if you touch on this piece of, like, this is actually creating lasting, positive change.

Absolutely. So it's, it's sort of that thing of like, you learn how to speak a language and you may not speak it all the time, but the information is still there. You may learn a skill and you may not use it all the time, but it's still there.

Well, you know how to ride a bicycle.

So you do know how to ride a bicycle. You could get right back on. Totally great example. So with this, it's the same. You already have that new base layer. And what's different, you've created this new foundation from where you are now thinking. But what's really great about it is that you're going to start making decisions based on where you are at the end of a protocol. So you're building on it, right? So you're in that. It's like you think about, you have a house and then you build, you know, you, you add to the house. Well, you've stopped the addition, but you still have the room there. So that is kind of like when you've done a protocol. It's like, oh, you have this completely new perspective, right? So you're working from that new perspective and that new way of thinking, and you can stop. The only reason that people might start again is because it's like, oh, now I have this other perspective I'd like to shift. But the beauty of it is, again, the natural world goes through cycles. It is not. You take this thing forever. That is, hey, that is just a. It's a consumeristic model that is, is, is made to make money. And there's nothing wrong with making money. But when we're talking about healing, healing is a cycle, right? It's a process. So you should have a beginning and an end in, in, in many ways, right? Not like, oh, you need to take this thing all the time. It's like, the body is so wise. All we're doing is supporting the natural wisdom of the body.

I love it. And then tell us about what protocols you're seeing out there and what are you seeing that's working best for People.

So one of the, there's different protocols that exist. You know, people may have heard of Paul Stamets. He has something called the Stamets. You know, he likes to add things in to psilocybin. So his is not pure, a pure psilocybin protocol. He talks about using psilocybin with niacin and lion's mane. There's also Dr. James Fadman has a protocol where it's like a couple of days on, days off. You know, the other protocol is a protocol that's a, it's a 12 week protocol. It's an every other day protocol, taking 50 milligrams every other day. And the thought process behind that is psilocybin basically has a 24 hour, you know, sort of like life within the body. It's going to be there, so it's still active, you know, for that time period. So you want to just go ahead and give yourself some time in between so that you aren't kind of building a tolerance too quickly. And also it's like, don't take more than you need. Like less is more. Right? Your body doesn't need more. You don't need to feel something working for it to be working. So that's one of those things where. And then at the end of like a 12 week period, give yourself time to notice what you're experiencing. But when you do any protocol, it's helpful to work with a coach, work with someone who can hold you accountable and help you integrate the changes that are happening. At the very least, journal. But when I have clients who have decided to do a microdosing protocol and they are checking in once a week, maybe for 30 minutes or, you know, every other week for, you know, 30 minutes, an hour, what they see in terms of the change within their mindset, it's radical, it is epic. And again, you can totally DIY it and do your own protocols, but it's super helpful to consult with someone so that you have a really good idea of what you're getting into and you have like really great support when you, if you decide to make that decision.

Yeah, I'm so glad you're mentioning that because I think that that also can really help people who might be starting off with, let's say, anxiety. And so they might already be feeling, you know, anxious, but yet they know they want to try something different that has the potential to create healing without another addiction and maybe help them actually eliminate other addictions. And so they. But to have someone to just sort of be there alongside you along the way can make a big difference, even if. Because I've also observed with, with patients who shared with me when they've done a protocol and how they, they might have insights into themselves or their lives that they didn't have before or some. Maybe sometimes they just have a memory come up that they hadn't thought of for a long time. And it helps to be able to talk it through with someone who also understands the experience well and who, who understands it.

And, you know, for example, I've had work with thousands of clients, right? And sometimes you start to see patterns. So it's helpful to know you are not the only one experiencing this. Other people have experienced something similar, but at the same time, look, everyone's story is unique, but we all have patterns that we can experience. And sometimes if you're feeling something, it's helpful to know, like, this has happened and it might be for this long of a time or, you know, here's something to consider. Here's something that's worked for someone else again, it's just being able to be of some kind of support so that you don't feel alone when making changes. You know, no one wants to eat, but especially if, you know, maybe your, your partner isn't making the changes and you are, you know, you, you want to feel supported in a process when you feel really called to something and it feels really aligned, you know, but it's again, making changes, you know, can just, again, that can create ripples all in your life. So to have someone supporting you through the process, hearing you, holding space for you, helping you, you know, maybe see something differently, maybe understand what you're seeing. And it's so supportive. It's very helpful. And this is, it's, it's literally an investment in your future.

It's, it's so amazing. And to, to have that support along the way definitely makes sense that it would make a huge difference. In fact, I'm, I'm seeing so many now programs for practitioners to learn about the use of psychedelic substances, especially psilocybin and microdosing, and including in the realm of psychology, mental health practitioners in the US and around the world. I know there's more and more practitioners getting this training to support people through these processes. And I'm so glad that you also have that background and that offer that coaching service. So tell me more about what you're seeing in terms of educating more practitioners.

So this is the goal, right? So I am launching a company called Heroic Wellness. And the whole point, basically, this is a social Wellness networking app for people who have we. We call it entheogenic, right? Psychedelic is more of a federal term to make it sound really scary, who have an entheogenic lifestyle. So you have users who can come onto the platform who can communicate with one another, especially parents who microdose who want to think about this for their kids, right, because they don't want them, you know, going through into the medical system at a, you know, their kids at a really young age. They want to be able to do things more naturally. Veterans, people who are in, you know, I know a ton of ex Mormons whose psychedelics have changed things for them. So having a social platform for people to come together, right, but also practitioners then to also come onto the platform.

And we get to know you.

Like imagine instead of, you know, us scrolling on a screen and it's like, I don't know, do they fit into my vbo? Hopefully this person. But what if you become more human? What if we are able to learn about you and your value system and we know you won't gaslight us if we mention that, you know, entheogens are part of our lifestyle. You know, I've had so many people come to me and say, oh, my therapist kicked me out of their office because I mentioned I'm microdosing, you know, and, and I, you know, I communicate with a lot of people who are in, you know, outside of metropolitan areas and they're like, yeah, if my doctor found out that I'm a parent and I'm microdosing, I could be in trouble with them. So what if we have a platform where users can find practitioners that will fully support you and everyone feels safe. Because when we come together and we educate and we are aligned with our values and what we truly, how we truly want to believe our live our lives, I believe that if you are well, then you are free. And that's everyone's birthright, is to be able to make natural choices that are aligned for you.

I love that you're educating about this word and theogen also, what would you say is a definition of entheogen or how can people get used to that terminology?

I know it's a mouthful, so sometimes I go back and forth to psychedelics. I don't want people to be confused. But in the agent is basically it's the, it's. It's a substance that opens up sort of like the, in the knowledge within, right? It, it awakens the knowledge. It's like lighting the pilot light to your, you know, like, to your authentic Self. And this is why it's so dangerous, right, for, you know, the sleeping society to wake up, right? Because then it's like, you're not easy to control when you think for yourself. And so entheogen is really, it's, it's. It's lighting the fire within. It's that light of knowledge. It's being able to see. And when you can come into a community where others welcome you and support you and understand you, that is huge. And to be able to educate, you know, whether you're in functional medicine or you're a therapist, to educate you so that you know what you can legally say, so that you feel like I can educate in this way and not lose my license. That's what heroic wellness looks to offer. Because we want you to feel safe to be able to educate. You know, last thing I'll say is I had a conversation at Mindshare with a functional medicine doctor. She practiced in Alaska, and she's like, every third client wants to know about microdosing. She's like, I literally don't know what to say so that I won't lose my license. I do this for someone like this person, right? I do this for everyone who wants to feel absolutely empowered sharing the truth. And we are allowed to know. And this knowledge has been hidden, it's been stigmatized, and it's been kept from us. And to me, that's absolutely criminal to do that to nature.

And I think what I see is that so much of the especially mental illness that humans experience, as well as I would say probably I could connect the dots back to pretty much any house issue that humans experience relates back to disconnection from ourself, right? Because there's so many stresses we experience in our daily lives. But then stress of being disconnected from oneself is probably one of the greatest stresses we experience. And, and we, we be. We are trained to disconnect from ourselves from a young age. And so to have something that helps us reconnect. You know, who am I as a person? What are my values? How can I take better care of myself, right? Because we've been taught we're supposed to be taking care of everybody else, and we're supposed to do what everyone else thinks we're supposed to do. So to start to, as you use that word, awaken or become aware or start to connect with our inner selves and our inner desires and needs and to prioritize ourselves, this is this, right? This power of alignment with authentic self. And some people do experience that through various forms of Therapy, meditation, yoga, other forms of healing out there that do help people get more in touch with themselves and, and their own healing capacity. But the way I see what you're describing in entheogens or psilocybin microdosing in particular, is that it helps people on that path. It helps support people on this journey back to themselves.

And that's so eloquently put and thank you. Because it's a bridge. It's not permanent, it's a bridge. Bridge, right. And that's what I love, I think about the mycelium, the way it grows. It's a connector. And it is there to connect you to you. What do we do? We look to the external you. As a doctor, you're the expert, you are the healer. The healer is within. Right. But it's you as the expert. People look outwards so as you empower your clients to learn how to listen, to learn how to be intuitive, to light that fire of the internal healing and knowing that just exists within, that we've been so disconnected from. And like you said, program from birth, to look externally, to not trust that inner wisdom. This psilocybin is a connector and it allows you to connect to that truth. And it's a knowing. It's not, oh, I don't know, I have to figure it out. It's a knowing. And so many people don't even understand what that is. So I so appreciate you being in such a powerful role of helping people learn how to reflect and to listen and to tap into that inner knowing and to be a guide, you know, and to also be doing your own work. So that's huge as well.

Thank you. Yes, I mean, I, I maybe some listeners know and I have previous episodes about my own experience with psychedelic substances or entheogens particularly. I have quite a lot of experience with ayahuasca, which is another plant based substance that is not legal in the US at this moment in time. But I travel to other countries such as Peru where it is legal and accessible and has made huge difference in my life. You also shared at the beginning how ayahuasca made a huge difference for you. And it's in the same way of connecting with self and letting go of, of past traumas and experiences that just block us from being ourselves. If we can let go of what is not us and we can become more ourselves and it becomes more clear what our path is moving forward. And of course, once we see our purpose and our passion and our path, we no longer would be experiencing depression that comes from not being on that path.

Well, healthy people aren't profitable people. So you just think about that and you can understand why medical models are set up the way that they do and how, you know, again, you and I have had the ability, you know, to do this elsewhere. You know, the beauty of something like microdosing is it's just like a supplement, right? It isn't disrupting your day. It's supportive, it's very under the radar. It's not showing up on drug testing, you know, all of these things. So I really appreciate something like psilocybin because it technically it does grow kind of underground. And it's underground in a way that can be very supportive and let's just say under the radar. And so it's something, you know, again, I think it's why it's coming up as such a huge curiosity for so many people because they're like, I heard about this thing that I can do where it's not psychedelic and maybe it's just a protocol that I can integrate. And I find it really fascinating where it's like you can go and do these macro journeys, but you can also, you know, there's the ability to do a microdosing protocol and it's, you know, sort of fits easily into your everyday life.

Yeah. And I've, in my, when I've traveled to experience psilocybin macro dosing, it also has had profound benefits to my nervous system. I always figure if I'm going to research something as a stress expert, expert and guide, I'm going to try it on myself first before I start to feel comfortable talking about it with other people. And so I'm so glad to have this opportunity to talk about. One more question, if you don't mind, is because you're mentioning how people can inter, you know, think about integrating this. They don't have to travel, they don't have to take a break from their whole life. They could be doing this in their daily routine and they can be benefiting from it in right away. Even at tiny doses, they don't have to go to these big journey doses. What I think a common question might be is how does it even fit in with other things they might already be taking? Like if someone's taking supplements or maybe they're on a medication for a certain health issue. How does microdosing fit in with taking other substances?

Thank you so much for bringing this up because this is, of course a big question because it is at micro amounts and it uptakes slowly. What has been found is that it is not a, it is not disruptive to most of what anyone is taking. Contraindicated would be something like if people have epilepsy, seizures, anything like that in their, in their health history, definitely contraindicated. But most other either conditions or you know, supplements, SSRIs, the pharmaceuticals, whatever it is, because it is at such a low, low dose, it does not disrupt and it harmonizes interestingly. And I've had people share stories of actually getting off of different types of SSRIs through the use of microdosing so they're not experiencing brain shocks or horrific drop offs, you know, in anxiety, depression or whatnot. So interestingly, psilocybin at lotosis can play very nicely and harmonize with other things you may already be taking.

I'm so glad what a wealth of knowledge you are on this topic. And I want to make sure everyone knows how to contact you if they have more questions. So I'll be sure to share your information in the notes for for this episode. And so anyone listening can can drop down and, and reach out to you and Heroic Wellness for more information so they can really feel like they understand all there is to know about this before making a choice and, and just to know that it is an option. Because sometimes I know people feel like they're hopeless and they feel like they've tried everything, but if you haven't tried this, this may be something on your list of things to consider.

I so appreciate you off opening up the space so that people can get this education because at the end of the day it is a matter of the knowledge getting out there knowledge and the destigmatization of nature. And so you know, really at the end of the day that's all we're doing is just sharing, you know, well researched, well vetted information so that others can just have the opportunity to consider it for themselves.

I love it. Thank you again so much for joining.

Me today and I look forward to.

Staying in touch with you.

I look forward to it as well.

Thanks for listening to how humans Heal. If you liked this episode, leave a rating and a review and for more resources visit drdani.com.