#22 Imagine Support for Healing – Inspiration from Thyroid30

The information provided in this podcast is educational and not intended to diagnose or treat medical conditions.

Dr. Donnie Wilson struggled for decades to solve her numerous health issues and heal her body. But with focused determination, she healed herself. And in doing so, she discovered the Dr. Donnie stress recovery Protocol. On this show, you're going to hear from doctors, nutritionists, and Experts along with Dr. Donnie, who will give practical advice and wisdom to help heal your body. This is how humans heal.

Hi and welcome. I'm excited to introduce Ginny and Dana, who are here with me today from Thyroid Refresh tv. And they are just amazing. Two women who have went through their own struggles with their health, especially related to the thyroid, and then decided to join together to create a support platform for other people who are struggling and dealing with thyroid issues in particular, to motivate them and inform them and encourage them that it's possible to feel better. So thank you so much, Dan and Ginny, for being here with me today. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having us.

Oh, it's so great. And I was thinking that we wanted to share today about some of the struggles you hear people having. Like, what are their main obstacles to healing? What are you hearing from the people on your support platform and what are you finding really helps them get through those challenges and to, you know, sort of get past the bumps in the road and on with their healing process. I also want to hear about this game you've developed to help people to. With their healing process. So, but first, tell me a little more, each of you. What. What got you here? What. What is. What about? Your health story really motivated you to want to share with others and help others.

I'll start. I'm Ginny. Thank you so much for having us here. We're excited to be here and we always love Talking to you, Dr. Donny. So we're excited about your. Your. Well, I guess it's not so new anymore, but your newish podcast. So.

I was diagnosed in 2011, shortly after the birth of my son, with hypothyroidism and.

Just had the standard treatment of levothyroxine, synthetic thyroid hormone, and that was pretty much it. Only my TSH was tested. I didn't know any better, and I didn't feel well. I was tired all day, every day. I was dealing with weight issues in spite of being, you know, in spite of exercising and eating less and all of those things my doctor was telling me to do that weren't working. I was sick all the time. I would get, you know, a Virus like a cold, and wouldn't really be well for months because that cold would turn into, you know, tonsillitis and an ear infection. And, you know, it just went on.

And on after the next.

Yeah. And that was four years, the first four years of my son's life. So I was, you know, new mom.

And.

It was really challenging. And I finally hit rock bottom, which isn't the worst thing that can happen, because that's where we get motivated to make change happen. And I just started doing my own research. I just knew this isn't right. I would continually tell my doctor, I just don't feel like myself. This isn't normal for me. I used to be someone who never got sick. I used to be someone with a lot of passion and fire and energy. And I feel like my light is going out. And is she just. Oh, you're just getting older? You know, I was in my late 30s. It's just the aging process. You just have to get used to it. You know, things like that. Well, I finally.

Decided to do my own research. First thing I learned was I needed a complete thyroid panel. I learned I had Hashimoto's, which, you know, is obviously autoimmune hypothyroidism. That just opened up a whole realm of information to me about things I could do, things I could eat differently, lifestyle factors. And I also found a new doctor. I started working with a naturopath, and she helped me figure out what test to do. She spent, like, an hour and a half with me. I'll never forget that first appointment. I felt so heard finally and not dismissed. And she said, this isn't normal. It's not okay. And it's not normal for you to be sick and tired all the time. Let's get to the bottom of this. I will. Your health, Detective. And we did a bunch of testing. We found suspect number one, which for me happened to be gut dysbiosis. And when we started treating that, there were other things we found. Food sensitivities, some micronutrient deficiencies, etc. But when we started treating that gut dysbiosis, it was literally about 48 hours before it was like somebody flicked that light switch back on inside me.

Wow.

I've been pretty good ever since. I'm not saying. Do I have 100% perfect health? No, I don't. I don't know if anyone does, but I feel like myself again. It was like, boom. Oh, my gosh. I had completely forgotten that it was even possible to feel like myself again. And that was a very life changing experience for me that motivated me to, you know, my career had already changed. I was a cooking instructor and my background is in food. I couldn't eat the same way. I was having to figure out new recipes. I had always had, like a recipe blog. And so I ended up deciding to start a recipe blog called Hypothyroid Chef. And that's how Dana found me. And the rest is kind of history. But I started that just to sort of connect with others, share what I was learning, share the rest. It was like, well, I'm gonna be cooking and eating differently. Why don't I share the recipes I'm coming up with with other people who are hypothyroid? And, you know, it just sort of blossomed from there. And now obviously we have Thyroid Refresh. Our. We call it a lifestyle support platform for thyroid patients. And Dana and I are. We are thyroid patients. So we say it's created by thyroid patients for thyroid patients. Because we've both been through this and we were really inspired to create a place where people like us could connect and also where it didn't have to take them four years to feel better. They could get the answers they need and the resources they need faster and pointed in the right direction of, oh, this is the expert. Oh, I heard, you know, I heard Dr. Donnie on this podcast, this Thyroid Refresh podcast, and I have to, I have to check out her blog, you know, connecting even many experts under one roof so that people could get connected with the answers and the resources that they need needed to thrive and to get their lives back.

Oh, so. And, and a lot of people even struggle for more than four years. You know, because you're, like you said a lot of times in, in the conventional medical world, you don't. They're not necessarily, you know, part of their thing is not to really educate or share with you. They're going to just give a diagnosis and give a prescription. But there's so much more to it with the thyroid. And it's so. And it can be so unique and different for each person. But like you're saying you really had this knowing that you could feel better and knowing that, that there had to be something you can do. I mean, maybe it was also your background in food that helped, you know, like, what we feed ourselves makes a difference to our health. And, you know, it sounds like that was quite a transition for you to transition from the food you were choosing and how that was. What was that experience for you? You know, as a chef, I Always.

Ate what I consider really healthy. I mean, looking back, I was eating, you know, whole grains, you know, lots of organic produce. Organics have been really a commitment of mine since I was, you know, since my 20s.

I've always really loved problem solving when it comes to food. So like in culinary school, you know, the mystery basket challenge, here's four things and you have to make something out of them. So I think I just inherently was drawn to that challenge of. Okay. I had learned at that point, just through my own trial and error, my brain fog. And I had debilitating brain fog where I felt like I couldn't drive a car. Sometimes my brain fog really lifted when I tried eliminating grains for a month.

Wow.

You know, just those you make your human guinea pig experiences. Yeah. So I sort of started to figure out, what are the things that don't work for me?

What are the.

What are the kind of common core recommendations for thyroid patients? You know, obviously, Gluten is number one. Soy, dairy, sugar, alcohol, etc. How can I make recipes that are not dreary?

Because I love food and I love to eat. My husband and I love to cook. I come from a family of great cooks who love food. It wasn't okay with me to just have drab meals that were, you know, dietary compliant. There was a little bit more to it. So I embrace that challenge. It still excites me. It's definitely, I think, a passion I have and something I love sharing with people. I like to help people by sharing those solutions.

Well and just I like the word refresh in your. In your guys name, thyroid refresh. Because it sound. That sounds like refreshing for people to know they can eat healthy and still have it taste good and that, you know, how wonderful for you to just be inspired by your own process and then share that with others. I think that's so beautiful. Dana, share a little bit about. I know you and I have known each other for a while with some of your prior work, but share with us a little bit more about what inspired you and how in connecting with Jenny.

Yeah. Okay.

Well, my story isn't unlike Jenny's or unlike so many other patients out there, but at the same time, it's completely different. You know, I was diagnosed in 2012 while living in Costa Rica, and so it was different. You know, I remember going to the doctor when I was younger and you go to the doctor and the doctor says you have a sinus infection and you go home with these medicines and then it's. So that's what I was Used to. And I wasn't until later that I realized that it was such a blessing that I got correctly diagnosed while living in a second third world country. But I did. So I had really strange symptoms. You know, I had like this really low grade fever, which was, you know, like 99.9, 100, just this very. I was feeling flush, I was really tired, like I had just had a baby, which I hadn't. And so I had some really strange. I'd always had like thin fingernails and thin hair. And I've always had a lot of the symptoms, but never really enough to associate it with anything. And so once I finally did get diagnosed, I went to the doctor, we got properly diagnosed. I got a full thyroid panel, or close to it. Here I was in Costa Rica, it was pretty close to a full thyroid panel. She said, you have, you know, thyroid disease. And so that was pretty remarkable. And then she sent me to a specialist who was from Costa Rica, but it also trained at Columbia. So, you know, he came, he took me into the office, we did an in office.

Ultrasound. Is that what it's called? Yes, in office ultrasound. And said, you know, you have Hashimoto's. That was fabulous to know and to get that. Here I am finding out way later that was fabulous to have that in office opportunity. And I got diagnosed with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. He basically said, you have low thyroid and you have hypothyroidism and here's your medicine, here's your, you know, T4. He didn't say that. He said, here's your, you know, off brand of it from living in Costa Rica and you'll go home and take your medicine. So I did. And I was thinking it was going to be like another appointment like I had always had. You go to the doctor, they gave you the pill and you feel better. And I didn't, I got worse. I started teaching more, I was a Zumba instructor, started teaching more, thinking that diet, exercise, that plenty of exercise, extra exercise wasn't going to hurt me. I was really tired. It wasn't until about a year later where I decided, you know what, this is not working. Clearly, this is not working. I am getting worse. And so I started finally asking questions. So I moved away from that paradigm of going to the doctor, get the pill. I learned, okay, wait a minute, I'm going to have to be a self advocate for myself. I started learning that and then I also kind of felt as if I was alone living in Costa Rica with this disease that no One really understood. So I started an online site, and then I started this podcast where I started connecting with amazing doctors like you. And I started asking the questions. I started learning all the different things, all the different testing that I could get. And so I started wanting those things and wasn't able to do that living outside of the United States. Once I did move back in 2016, I did get lots of the testing. I did find a doctor. I'm still, of course, on my journey, but I should feel lucky, and I do feel lucky that I was properly diagnosed. The problem was that he didn't tell me it was autoimmune. He did tell me, but he didn't emphasize it. And there wasn't a lot on the Internet, which is why I started my first website. And I didn't realize how much I could take the disease and my symptoms into my own hands. It wasn't until later, after, like I said, I had come back to the States and met doctors like you. And so I started finally doing the things that I knew I could do on my own. Unlike Jenny, I don't really like to cook. So she is a fabulous cook. I've been to her house. She's cooked several things for me. She's an amazing cook and chef, and I don't really like to. So that aspect of it was different for me. I didn't really like to. Like, someone was saying the other day that. That they know someone who eats the same food every day because it's. And I was thinking, you know, even though I really like food, I could eat the same thing more often than probably Jenny, because I don't like to cook as much. And one thing I did.

You're more of a master of exercise.

I am, I am. But I did find that the food and eliminating all that stuff. I did find that gluten wasn't necessarily something that resonated with me, although I knew that gluten was bad and all that. It wasn't until I took grains out of my diet that I started seeing, like. Like Jenny mentioned as well, the brain fog lift and that kind of thing. You know, I did some other things, like self care. That was never a word that, you know. Of course, now everybody's heard it a lot. But a couple years ago, that word wasn't, you know, so well known. So I started doing those kinds of things and spending time not being the victim. And once I kind of did that and started giving myself time and wanting it to be fun, Jenny and I got connected and we started to make Our platform, fun and light hearted. And once I started feeling the aspects of that, the after effects of that, that I started doing my own healing. And I took myself out of that mindset of you always have to talk about thyroid and it's negative. And once we kind of bridged that and moved into the happier parts, you know, the silver lining parts, I started seeing a big shift and my numbers started changing. My thyroid numbers started coming down. I started doing meditation, easy, easy exercise, walking and slow, just five minutes yoga, ten minutes yoga, those kinds of things. And that's when I really noticed the shift for me was really just kind of like taking a step back, looking at it a little bit differently and making it work for me.

And I think what I really hear is that part where there's an acceptance that you went through, like kind of accepting that this is my body, this is the situation going on in my body, the autoimmunity, the low thyroid, recognizing that that was related to how you were feeling and then realizing, hey, it doesn't help for me to just be bummed out about this. What's going to help is for me to be proactive and solve it and figure out what, what can I do with this situation to make the best of it and make the best of my health. And I can see completely now why you two have created this support platform because of course, you both are just such so, you know, warm and supportive overall. I'm sure, you know, everyone, you know feels that way. Where would people go to find your platform and access it and participate?

Thyroidrefresh.com is our, is our online lifestyle support platform. We like to say it's the O magazine for online support and it does, it's very beautiful. But the game that we were you were referring to earlier is a little bit different. I'll let Jenny tell you a little bit more about that since I've been talking this this whole time. But we actually do four seasons. We have games and so we do, we do a new game, you know, every season. So we, we have one coming up. We're in the summer of 2020 right now, so we have one coming up. And that's another thing that really helped me once we started kind of getting into this process and changing the conversation to happier ones. That's naturally me. I was a cheerleader. I wanted to be happy, I wanted to support. And once we started changing that, it really kind of lifted my spirits. I didn't know I was in that mindset of victim and much until we started kind of playing our games and using our, using our platform, you know, we created what we kind of needed and wish we would have had. And so once we started doing that, I started feeling, you know, positive. And so, yeah, so it's a lot of fun. And I'll let Jenny tell you about thyroid 30.

Yeah. So this was really the lightning bolt idea that sparked Dana and I's partnership. And I think we make such a great team because we're so alike in some really fundamental ways, like our philosophy and our attitude. Like, we both love to dance and we love to have fun and we like to laugh. And we're also total opposites in some way. Like she was saying she hates to cook. And I'm, you know, I'm more like the nerd, you know, and she's more like the social butterfly. You know, we really balance each other out, but we also have this appreciation that this is a part of our life. You know, maybe we'll get really lucky and we'll be able to go into remission, you know, but who knows? For so many thyroid patients, this is a lifelong diagnosis. It's. What do they call it? Like a lifestyle disease, right? So why not make it fun and create a place where we call our community thyroid thrivers? No. People are attracted to us who are ready to embrace what we call thyroid healthy living. So we came up with this idea that what if we could create this gamified 30 day challenge, essentially we actually call it a wellness adventure. We didn't want to call it a challenge because thyroid patients, they have enough challenges. We need to have fun reaching our goals. We need community support. So with thyroid 30 once per season or four times a year, as Dana said, for 30 days, players join a team. And every day they score themselves on what we call the eight daily rituals of thyroid healthy living. So we call them the eight R's for short. They're all R words. So like remember, did you remember to take your medication and supplements today? If so, you get a point refuel. That's everything you put in your mouth, everything you eat and drink. Reactivate. Did you get at least 10 minutes of physical activity appropriate for you? Of course. But did you get at least 10 minutes of physical activity today? Repair is. Did you do one small thing today to support your gut health? That could be something like reading one of our articles on gut health from an expert. Or it could be.

Taking a probiotic or what, you know, whatever it is.

Four is rejuvenate. That is, did you spend at least 10 minutes today on self care or Stress reduction.

I'm sorry, did I say that was four? That was five. Six is reduce. Did you take one small action to reduce your exposure to toxins? Like, did you drink filtered water today, for example? So it sounds. The eight daily rituals might sound overwhelming, but a lot of these are really easy to get and can be like two birds, one stone kind of thing.

Seven is relish. So that's where every day you connect with your team, you check in each day you score yourself, which builds a lot of awareness. And we have like a social platform where teammates connect with their team. And so you get a point for, say, posting a status update or commenting on someone else's status, you know, and it could be anything. Like, I have a question about, you know.

Whatever. Yeah, I mean, people asking questions, people sharing recipes, people sharing resources. They like, oh, I found a really great clean sunblock. I wanted to share, you know, things like that. So the team aspect and the community aspect of the game is really special and life changing and has been one of the most delightfully surprising things to us about just the power of that community support, especially a positive, healing community.

And then finally, the last R is recharge. So each player sets their own sleep goal. So mine's usually about seven and a half hours. If I get that seven and a half hours, I get my recharge point. So it's customizable. We don't prescribe. You have to do it this way and take these supplements and eat these foods because as you know, we're all bio individual. We all have unique needs, sensitivities, and the healing journey is really what it is. It's a commitment to lifelong health. And it's about adopting that mindset of I'm worth the this and I embrace myself. I love myself enough to give myself what I need to thrive and to make this a priority in this really positive community atmosphere where I actually have support. That's something so many of us can just completely lack. And we hear this from a lot of players. They start out really shy and they're like, I don't want to. I don't want to check in every day and talk about my personal illness on here. And by the end they're like, I am so glad I found this community. I've learned so much from these other players and it's just been super fun. So, yeah, Thyroid 30 is kind of our baby and why we created Thyroid Refresh in the first place.

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Oh my gosh. I love that. And I think that, you know, it really makes a difference. Like you're saying, to have to do things as a group, you know, in a live group and to be and to make it fun. Like so sometimes it can seem like making these little changes first of all can seem like, is it really going to make a difference? You're not like it's making sure I get clean water or making sure I get 10 minutes of exercise. Is it really going to make that much difference? But when you do it like this, you can get your mind out of it a little bit and just try it. Just go, okay, let me just try these little things that take me a few minutes each day and then over 30 days be able to look back and see, did it make a difference for you? What kind of difference? What are some of the things that your players notice after 30 days?

What do you.

Sleep.

Sleep. It's so fundamental. And they realize because you can see your score history. So you can see I didn't make my point. I didn't make my point here and here. So you can kind of see the patterns. So that really helps. And they notice and start paying attention to those things that you kind of, you know, take for granted. Sleep is so huge. It's foundational. So that's one of the things we hear about. Oh right. Self care.

Self care is a big one. People say, oh, I, you know, we had a player last season. I remember she started out like, I got everything done but self care, you know, it was like this to do, you know, by the end of the season she was like, I love the rejuvenation. Getting my rejuvenation point every day like this Is something I look forward to. I really enjoy making that time to go lay in the hammock or take a bath or meditate, read my book, do something actively that fills my bucket. You know, we have so much output these days that.

And people can use that. People can use it as their excuse. Cause, you know, women, it takes, you know, it's hard sometime to forgive yourself and to allow yourself to do those things. So when they're playing, they go, oh, well, I've got to go lay on the hammock for 10 minutes so I can get my point. Right, right.

I love it. No, it's so true. Because it's some. It is. You know, we, you know, like our generation, we especially, I mean, it was considered selfish or self indulgent to take time to go sit on the hammock. Especially if you've got work to do or you're a. Or you're, you know, you've got things, you know, you got laundry to do and you're gonna go sit on the hammock, you know, but when you, you know, it's so important, you know, in terms of, you know, just that stress recovery time. And I love that when you can, when you have a way to communicate with yourself and with others to say, okay, I'm going to do this because I need the point for my team and my point for the day, then you can kind of get out of your own way, get it done.

I really wanted to point out to you. Absolutely. I really wanted to point out to you too, Dr. Joni, that this is a tool not just for patients, but for practitioners. Because.

What it does is it's like we're doing the daily hand holding that doctors can't do. Like, you can tell your patients what they need to do to feel better. You do the testing, you're like, you know, you know, here's your food sensitivity stuff, and I see this, and you might want to incorporate this supplement, make these changes, and then they have to go home and do it. And that can be a lonely process. You know, for Dana and I, it was because we didn't have thyroid 30 when we started. But this is a tool that practitioners can use to help their patients implement their recommendations. So it's like you can tell them what to do. And we help answer the question of how to actually do that and how to live the lifestyle and not just live it and, you know, stay committed, but to enjoy it, to embrace it.

You know, I've seen some doctors and coaches and therapists and whatever where they have you know, they have a little packet, and they say, you know, you know, because I can't spend time with you, here's some recipes. And what. Okay, but that's a handful of things, right? You can give your patients, you know, a handful of recipes and be like, here, or here's a blog, or here's. I can try this, whatever. But then it's every single day. So on our site, we have all of those resources so that you can kind of feel confident and, you know, just confident in sending your patients there. Because it's for thyroid patients.

I love that. And for people to be able to go and just use those resources and. And then join you on that journey. Right. I'm curious. I mean, we've covered a lot of what would be potential obstacles for people. But what would you say, you know, what are the things that you find are the main roadblocks for people making these changes?

Well, I know one of the big ones is that. Well, there's several. Right. Where do you start testing, you know, getting a full thyroid panel. Also, I know there's a lot of people who feel overwhelmed.

Yeah.

And that's a huge roadblock, and that's one of the main things. When Jenny and I first started out, we were like, we want to make this simple. We want to make the website have lots of white space so that their brains, the patients, when they come to the website, they aren't bombarded with lots of information. You know, to start with, we really wanted to simplify it so that they didn't feel overwhelmed, so that they didn't feel like, oh, my goodness, I'm not going to be able to do that. So for me, you know, overwhelm, I think, is definitely a really big one. What would you say, Jenny?

Yeah, I think that's a really. A big one. You know, we hear from so many people who say, I just don't even know where to begin. It's too much, and I'm busy, and I've got, you know, so many kids at home, and I work, and I just can't. So, yeah, just trying to reduce the overwhelm. I think one of the.

Personal roadblocks, I think, is like, the first sort of foundational step is the mindset.

And that can take a lot of different shapes. Like Dana was saying, you know, she sort of got stuck for a while in, like, a victim, like, victim mindset of I'm stuck here, this happened to me.

I.

There's nothing I can do about it. You know.

Shifting out of that is. Is really Powerful. And I think the first step in doing that is wanting it. You know, the first step in obtaining something is wanting it. You know, that was rock bottom for me. I am so over this. I can't live like this anymore. Something has to change. I want to feel better. And then I think, you know, after you decide I want to feel better, I'm ready to learn to be curious, you know, to embrace this and to do my best is you have to believe in your own self worth and, you know, like what Brene Brown calls worthiness. You know, I think that's another big roadblock for people, maybe especially women.

Feeling like everyone else's needs are more important than my own. This is selfish for me. You know, I know as a chef, someone who loves food, shared that love with my husband. It took me a while. I mean, I. I didn't just find out, oh, I should probably give up gluten and dairy and then do it the next day. It took me a couple months. There was a whole grieving process. I had to, like, say goodbye to, you know, all my favorite stuff. And now I've just.

You had to eat all the gluten in the house up, right? Well, out of the house.

Right?

Yeah.

But, you know, but also I ran into that, like, people are going to be inconvenienced. People will be disappointed because when they come here, they expect me to make something that's traditionally delicious.

Yeah.

Yeah. Sugars, a baked good, you know, homemade.

Really almost shift your identity or your definition of yourself.

Yes, it was like an identity shift. And.

You know, I just had to. Had to say, you know what? My health is worth a little bit of inconvenience or disappointment. And I have to trust that my friends and family members are going to love me just as much.

And I want to mention Jenny really quick, when you were talking about the mindset shift, it reminded me that it's kind of twofold. Okay. Because you say you have to really want it. Right. But the thing is, you go to. You went to the doctor. I went to the doctor. Okay. We wanted it. I wanted to feel better. I went to the doctor. I got my answer. They said I had Hashimoto's, I got my pill, I went home, wanted it. Right. It wasn't that I didn't. But then the realization that you have to take your health into your own hands and that it's kind of going to be a huge shift and maybe some work and it's not going to be easy. That's a whole other level of wanting you have to really get to that point where you really want it that bad that, you know, you have to do several things.

And like Jenny saying, you have to be willing to realize that other people in your life might have a response to that. They might feel disappointed or. And it's that codependency, right? I mean, you real. I think you guys are speaking to that where we. We tend to be kind of codependent on what other people's responses are, and we almost make ourselves less important. A way to avoid disappointing people. But to the extent that we do that, we're not really helping our own health very much. And so when you hit that point where you realize it and you then you can. It's from that awareness, I think you're really both saying that you had a wanting but also an awareness that made you realize at a certain point from then going forward, you had a choice. You were like, either going to choose to eat the same old way because I am afraid of what other people will think if I make a change, or I am going to eat in a new way because I am worth it and I want my health to change, even if that means other people are going to ask me questions or not want to come over. I am going to make those change for myself or even if it is.

Going to be hard work.

Yes, 1,000%, Dr. Donnie. I mean, and I think another way of saying what you said is I'm either gonna keep eating these foods that are actually making me really sick and making it really hard to even feel like a functional human being because I'm afraid of disappointing someone, or I'm just gonna, you know, get over it and say, okay, this is it. We're doing this. I'm going gluten free, dairy free, whatever it is, you know, And I think.

Maybe this is sort of shifting gears a little bit, but sort of, you know, flowing in the same direction. I think part of that is shifting from this attitude of aggression towards ourselves that's really culturally ingrained. You know, we live in these extreme times. It's like you can't just go for a walk. You got to do super mega boot camp. And, you know, everything's just like. So, you know, it's like you can't just take one supplement. You've got to take 15 of these, you know, pills, whatever, whatever it is, this aggression towards ourselves, shifting that to an attitude of compassion towards ourselves. And when you start to build that awareness of, like, grains for, you know, Dan and I had that same experience, you start to look at those things differently. This isn't serving me anymore. And I don't want to hurt myself, because when I do that, I actually can't show up for the people I love and care about, like my son, my husband, even my dog, my friends and family. I can't be. And including myself, I can't achieve my dreams if I'm going to keep doing these things that are hurting myself. So I want to shift that from, you know, into what the Buddhists call loving kindness, this unshakable sense of I'm worthy of taking good care of myself, the same way I take care of others. I deserve that, too.

Beautiful. Oh, my gosh. Those are really beautiful words. And I. And I think you're right. Like, I. A lot of times I think about how we think we're supposed to be a superhuman, you know, or a superhero, you know, and withstand all struggles, and we put a lot of expectation on ourselves to be something other than human. And even, like, you're mentioning, like, take it to the extremes of diet change or extremes of fasting or extremes of exercise. And I think with thyroid is a perfect example of a health issue that's not going to do well with extremes. You know, it's on. It's in the extremes that the thyroid actually does worse. So it's kind of like a lesson in finding balance for yourself. And I love how you really explained that. It's very unique. You know, you can't just say, here's exactly the diet or exactly the exercise for everybody with thyroid. No, it's got to be where. How do we guide you to be compassionate with yourself in order to discover what's the right diet and exercise for you? So I really.

And that can go. And beyond. It goes beyond diet and exercise, too. I think one thing a lot of thyroid patients can relate to is a difficulty with speaking their truth, with speaking up for themselves. And that's that same thing. I'm gonna. I'm gonna not say when somebody made me uncomfortable or I'm not okay with something. I'm. You know what? That really was not okay with me. To be able to say that is, like, so freeing.

Yeah.

And I think that's another cultural thing that we just sort of bear. You know, we don't want to have confrontation. We don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. And, like, setting those healthy boundaries, you know, it goes right along with the nutrition, and I can imagine the other aspects of the lifestyle.

I can imagine being somewhere and ordering something and a friend going, oh, that's right. She has to have, you know, gluten free or whatever they. And before I would have been like, well, you know. And then once you finally own it, you're like, yep, that's me. I'm the one. I need gluten free. I need grain free. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm okay. I'm happy to be me. You know, it's the shift in your brain where you're just like, nope, I'm going to own this.

Yeah. And it's. At first it feels. I know sometimes when people first shift into seeing, speaking. And I love, by the way, this comment, Jenny, because of course, this is the throat chakra, which has to do with expressing yourself. And so it's so. It's so interesting, right, that the energy of our neck is right where the thyroid is. And so as we learn to express ourselves, we're actually helping our thyroid. In fact, some of that. Right. Some of the exercises for thyroid even include singing, you know, and kind of getting that energetic circulation going through the neck area. But I think that's such an amazing point about how at first, when you start to kind of express yourself that way, whether it's a boundary or a desire, a need, at first it feels weird, you know, and at first you're like, I don't know. And it's like a big deal. But then once you start to do it, it becomes easier. And you do, you can feel that sense of freedom. It's not like you are having to state those things all the time necessarily, but. But then you just know for yourself that you're able to if you need to. And that alone is. Is just builds your level of freedom in yourself and in your mind.

Well, and aren't we all there right now as a planet just with learning how to speak our truths, how to say these things aren't okay. And I really want to challenge myself to be able to say those things out loud in a way that isn't going to just result in an argument. It's not about, you know, just always duking it out or being like, just learning that art of being able to speak your truth in a way that works and can be heard and so that you feel heard, they feel heard. Everybody's needs are, you know, valued.

I love it. I love it. Wow. Well, it's. This is just so fun to get to talk with you. And I just love what you created for people. I'm definitely going to be suggesting it for patients and anyone else who's really. Because even someone who I would think Even what you guys have developed would help someone who doesn't have thyroid issues.

Absolutely.

Right. Because it comes back to some of those same lifestyle, dietary things. Sleep. Sleep is, you know, one of my favorite things to talk about. And the tricky thing with that is, I mean, there's those of us, and I include myself because I'm often one of these people who skimps on sleep because I've got so many other things to do and I don't. I don't want the day to be over yet. And so I end up with a few hours of sleep because I just stayed up too late. And then there's other people who just there because of their hormone imbalances and stress exposure, their body just not even if they want to fall asleep, they can't fall asleep. And so how important it is to help people, people to solve either way for themselves so that they can get that essential sleep. I think you were saying, Jenny, that you were saying like when you get sleep, how much of a difference it makes?

Oh, it's so foundational. And you know, we emphasize to people it's not even so much about getting a perfect score every day and doing all of the eight daily rituals every day. At the outset, everyone goes through this setup process, but because our needs and where we're at on our healing journey is always, it's, it's all. It's a dynamic journey. Right. So it's. Yes, thank you. It's always evolving. So when you start, you pick an area to focus on. So that on those days that are really crazy, you know. Oh, well, my main focus this time though, I really wanted to commit to the recharge ritual, to getting my sleep every night. And it's really surprising to people how taking that simple approach, even just picking one thing, if you want to do all eight every day, you know, I mean, and you do need to score yourself and all, you know, but if you really want to just focus on one ritual that can be so incredibly powerful and life changing as far as reducing symptoms and you know, I mean, hair loss diminishing and of obviously fatigue going away and weight issues because of, you know, people not prioritizing sleep and yeah, that's a, that one's a big eye opener for people. But I think even just focusing on any one of those rituals can be.

We can't underestimate the power of the simple approach and of baby steps just taken consistently over time. And you know, give yourself a year to. And look at the before and after. You won't believe it. If you just can, you know, make that commitment to continue making small obtainable steps towards your healing goals.

Yeah.

I have one patient who, and she is a Hashimoto's patient. She, when I said that to her first at the beginning of her healing process, she was like, she said, I think I'm gonna need fetus steps. And I thought that was so sweet.

Right. And that's okay.

Yeah.

Micro steps, like as small as you need them to be because, you know, these little teeny things you can implement in an incremental way and learn through the process makes a big change in the long run. And I think when we do make these small steps like that, there's. It happens differently than if you try to just make a big, big change. Because when you try to make, I find a fast and big change, it's not as lasting. You know, you tend to be able to only do it for a certain amount of time and then you just fall off the wagon, so to speak. When we can make these small incremental changes that it, that it actually becomes part of your, your, your routine and your world and your reality in a different way so that it can actually become lasting change.

One simple example would be. I remember when I first started kind of embracing lifestyle as a supportive tool for me and my symptoms, that I wanted to drink filtered water and I wanted to drink water with lemon every morning. And I have been doing that since 2014.

Wow. But it, every day, it just started with one little. Yeah. Just one goal. Yeah.

You know, we lived in another country and we ordered a Berkey and I drank my filtered water and I always had a lemon Limon, even though it was different looking. And somehow I always had them every day. I always had them around. I was always, when I'm at the store, oh, need to pick some up. But when it first started, you know, it wasn't like that. Now I don't even think about. Neither does my family. Everybody knows that is what I drink every morning.

Well, those little baby steps, when you take them, they can become your new normal so that it doesn't feel like this drastic, extreme change. Yeah. We really encourage people to take those baby steps because we have a psychologist on our advisory team and she says when you go too huge, that's why these 30 day challenges can fail some people when they go too huge. They focus too much on the perfect score, on completely overhauling every single aspect of their life.

You can overwhelm your nervous system and you basically go into fight or flight response.

Well, because of stress and that's, you know, it's the thing that leads to the thyroid issues to begin with are the various stresses. But if we, we can stress ourselves out with the changes we're making. So I think, yeah, it's trying to find that middle ground where we can make these changes in a non stressful way.

Finding that balance. But more, more harmony. What works for you? Yeah, yeah.

Is there anything else you'd like to share before we, before we end?

I just was thinking about support, you know, as talking about the biggest roadblocks to healing. And I think that's something I see so many people in the thyroid community, so many thyroid patients don't realize that you don't have to go it alone. And it's, it's really better and more fun if you don't. So much more fun. I get it. I'm a lone wolf. I, you know, I'm like an extroverted introvert. I love my alone time. I never really realized, even starting, you know, as we were starting to create Thyroid 30, how much I was going to really benefit from and enjoy the community support aspect. And I think the thing it's really shown me is that it's really incredible what we're capable of as individuals when we have the support we need.

Yeah, yeah, that's. It's such a good point. And sometimes it's almost hard to choose that because you're like, because you're thinking, oh, I could just do this myself and is this group going to have expectations of me and, you know, this kind of ways of talking ourselves out of it. But, but yeah, there is something about being, especially right now when so much of us, so many of us are in our own homes alone or, you know, not interacting in our environments as in communities, as much as maybe we would have been in the past. Like, this is such a chance to connect online, right? This is all. Is it all online and by video and social media?

Yes.

So you can join from anywhere and be present with other humans in the same process?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, we've got a Swedish team that plays that. We've got players from all over the world. It's been amazing to get to know so many other people and just fun to always come away at the end of the season feeling like I'm not alone. There's this whole amazing army of thyroid warriors out there who are on this path alongside me, even if they're not physically beside me, you know, which is kind of a good thing these days. I mean, when we're having to social Distance. You know, it's nice that this is something you can continue to do to support your health, to connect with other humans, you know, without putting yourself at risk or whatever.

And especially if, you know, maybe the other people in your home environment may not completely be understanding or on the same page, but you go into a group like this with other people who are wanting to make mindset shifts or make dietary changes or focus on improving their health like that, you know, it's sometimes hard to find that group of people on your own, but if you guys have created that, so all people have to do is join in and show up, and they. They've got a whole group of people with the same, you know, working on the same goals. So that's. I think that's remarkable and really special. So thank you again for creating this and for. And for sharing your stories and your passions, and I really see that that's, you know, been rewarding for both of you.

Well, we really hope that, you know, our partnership and what we've created together can help other people. We love to help other people. We both love to cheerlead and support other people. And, you know, our community and our players and even the people we haven't met yet out there who are, like, so down and out and they've forgotten, like, we forgot that it was even possible to feel like themselves again. Like, maybe somebody out there will. Will hear this and come our way and realize, I'm not in this alone and I can feel better and I can get empowered. There are things I can do, and I can do it in a way that isn't gonna just make my life drudgery, you know, it's not gonna be right. Like the dreary meals and the boot camp camp and the just constant, like, discipline and all the people get stuck on those things they can't have. Right? You know what I mean? We really focus on. Look at all that. We. I mean, just our stories. We marvel at this with one another all the time. Look at how much this diagnosis has taught us, made us grow, made us evolve as human beings.

Wow. That's beautiful. Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you so much for sharing and for being here with me today, and I look forward to talking to you both very soon.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for having us. It's been a pleasure.

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