#259 Your Mouth, Your Health: How Biological Dentistry Can Help You Heal with Dr. Toni Engram

The information provided in this podcast is educational and not intended to diagnose or treat medical conditions.

Dr. Donnie Wilson struggled for decades to solve her numerous health issues and heal her body. But with focused determination, she healed herself, and in doing so, she discovered the Dr. Donnie stress recovery Protocol. On this show, you're going to hear from doctors, nutritionists, and Experts along with Dr. Donnie, who will give practical advice and wisdom to help heal your body. This is how humans heal.

Hi, and welcome to how humans heal. I'm Dr. Donnie Wilson, and today I'm really looking forward to introducing you to Dr. Toni Ingram. She is what's referred to as a biological dentist. She's also an integrative health coach, and she's owner of Flourish Dental Boutique in Richardson, Texas. Thanks so much for joining us today, Toni.

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Oh, my gosh. What an amazing.

Group of things that you offer and you do for your patients and for people who even attend your online classes. I can't wait to share all about that today because I think that, you know, for a lot of people, even just starting with, what does that mean to be a biological dentist? Because, like, a lot of times we just think a dentist is a dentist, but that's not really the case anymore. So maybe just give us a little insight into that now, to start with, of, like, what does that mean to be a biological dentist? And why might someone be looking for that type of dentist?

Yeah, like, what the heck is that? Right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So an easy way to understand it is we are like the functional medicine, naturopathic version of dentists. So a lot of what we do is still the same. I still do fillings, I still do crowns, I still do the things. But how we do it is very intentional. So biological medicine and the principles around that really sought to have an appreciation for the biological terrain. You know, it's not just one germ causes one illness. It's what does our toxic bucket look like? Have we filled it too much and is it overflowing? Are we supporting that? And so in biological dentistry, we're looking really carefully at what materials are we using? Is that helping or hurting? Are there infections in a patient's mouth that are hiding, that maybe aren't obvious, but they could be impacting a patient's overall health?

And then when there are toxins that are involved or infections that are involved, then we can use some really fun techniques that are.

Hopefully, we aim to be a little.

Bit safer, a little more natural whenever possible. So we don't Use fluoride. I don't have fluoride anywhere in the office. When we're taking out those old silver fillings that are half mercury. We have some really specific protocols to make sure that patients and my staff are protected during that. And the, even just the filling material that we use it, that we use, we're very careful to source that as responsibly as possible.

Amazing. Really amazing. And it's, it's something that people can search for online. Right. If you're like, hey, is there a biological dentist in my area? Then that could be something to consider. Because even if you've been working with the same dentist for many years, would you say, is that something that people do as they start to go, oh, maybe I'm going to switch to a biological dentist?

A lot of people do. I have a lot of new patients whose dentists have just retired. And so the, the dentist that retired, they had kind of an understanding. And that dentist didn't push fluoride on them, but the dentist thought they were kind of crazy. So now that the dentist retired, they're over to the biological side of dentistry. So we have a lot of patients like that. And then the major is just traditional dentistry doesn't necessarily align with their values. And so you search for a practitioner that aligns with your values. And so it's not just about not having fluoride. It's that I actually see the risk in fluoride. I'm, I'm the same kind of mom that my patients are. You know, I don't want a bunch of junk in my kid's mouth. I want to make sure that when they are having dental work, that, that dent dental work is done safely and we're not taking unnecessary X rays. So really a lot of it is just being values aligned. And so we have a lot of patients that will seek us out for those reasons, just similar values.

And it is interesting to me that you decided to get a health coach certification because that's not something, you know, not all even biological dentists have done that. And it gives you that, like what you're saying, that broader perspective on health. You're not just looking at the patient's mouth, you're looking at, oh, how can their diet make a difference? How can their whole health be related to what's going on in their mouth?

Absolutely. And I, you know, the skills are something, those soft skills are something that's really important when I'm having one on one patient conversations, but even conversations with the public, you know, I'm on Instagram or YouTube. And I'm talking to the camera just like I'm talking to a patient in my office sitting knee to knee. So it was, for one, it was a lot of fun to do the certification program and it did give me some of those, those more fine tuned skills around. How do you actually get patients to do the things that support them in getting healthier overall? And I was learning a ton about nutrition during that time period and I felt like I just really needed some street cred to talk about nutrition.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm sure it helps you get that, you know, feeling like, okay, yeah, like I, I, I, you wanted that more information. And I think it tell. If you don't mind telling us a little more about your personal health journey, because that's the thing, right? As practitioners, especially as like practitioners who are walking the talk. Like you're saying, like you're walking to talk. You're saying, hey, I want to, I'm, I want this for my family and therefore I want to provide it for my patients too. But that also was part of your health journey that led you to this, right?

Absolutely. My own personal illness is what changed my career. And so in that respect, I'm just so deeply grateful for, for the illness.

And it was, I'm happy to share, I share it online. And so there, there is no TMI with me, but I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease after having just awful gut issues for a long time, probably about a year. This was very early in my career. I had a toddler at home. I was working too hard, not taking enough time for myself. I was opening a practice from scratch, plus working full time as a dentist in another office. And man, I just got so super sick. And when I was finally diagnosed, the doctor came in because I had to basically had to convince him that something was wrong. I was like, you know, I'm actually losing weight and I'm not trying to lose weight. And oh, by the way, I have bloody stools and I don't think that's normal. So that's when they finally said, okay, let's do a colonoscopy and look like. And he acted like he was just humoring me by doing the colonoscopy.

Well, the doctor was surprised to find Crohn's. Wow.

He was surprised to find it. So he woke me up after the, or when I, when I woke up after the colonoscopy, he's like, you know, you actually have something going on.

Right?

Oh my gosh.

So I, I Wasn't crazy, right.

To advocate for yourself, seriously.

But what happened next was really the tipping point. And again, I'm just so, so grateful that I'm stubborn. And that's how my mom raised me, is the doctor looked me in the eye and said, okay, here your list of medications. You're going to be on these forever or until they stop working. Then we'll put you on stronger medications. And, oh, by the way, there's about a 40% chance you'll need surgery at some point to remove all or part of colon. Your diet has nothing to do with this. That's what they told me.

Yeah. And I knew. I just knew there was nothing holistic in my lifestyle before that point.

But I knew that that was not right. I just knew that that was not right. And so it took me a while, and I did get on the medications because I was scared not to. I was scared not to follow his advice. So I started on the medications, got it, went into remission really quickly, thankfully, but then went on this journey to figure out how to actually fix this, which I know is what you're doing all the time. So a similar path to, I'm sure, what your patients are going through and your clients are going through. And so I. I did get better. I learned what worked for me, you know, by trial and error. And it took a little while. It finally took a second pregnancy for me to say, okay, enough with the medication, and to get my doctor, a different doctor, to listen to me and help me come up with a plan to get off the medications. And so I got off the medications during that pregnancy, and that Sweet girl is 12 years old, and I have not looked back.

Awesome.

Well, I. I would say the doctors would say I'm in remission. I would say I no longer have Crohn's disease.

Yeah, I. I would say that, too. You know, when you. Because it is. But you. They make it seem as if it's impossible. Right. And so much of that, too, can be the mindset. If we believe it's impossible and we just follow that path, then that's going to be the case. That's going to be the reality. But when you're like, you are not willing to accept that. You're like, I'm not willing to accept this as my reality. I'm gonna figure out another way. And then you did figure out another way. And in the process, now you've transformed your dental practice to be more aligned with, like you were saying, aligned with. How do I help people who are also trying to stay away from toxins and eat clean and take care of their body. Yes. And.

Well, and there's. There's similar conditions. So Crohn's disease was an inflammatory condition that was, you know, contributed to by a dysbiosis, by this imbalanced microbiome? Well, tooth decay and gum disease are the same thing. It's all about inflammation and an imbalance in the bacteria in your mouth. So I just felt like, okay, I'm clearly gonna figure this out for my patients, or I'm a hypocrite if I don't. So just, like, I can get. Well, my patients can get too. And so that's. Yeah, that's.

What happened. Yes. Yes.

Amazing. Oh, congratulations. That's such a powerful story. And I love to like where you're making this connection, because the research is really showing us this now that the microbiome in the mouth is related to the microbiome in the gut. These are. These are not separate. They're very much connected, and they're going to influence our immune system. Do you find that you're talking more about that with your patients, all about microbiome and microbiome health and how microbiome in the mouth is impacting their overall health?

Absolutely, absolutely. And we do saliva testing where we're looking at their oral microbiome, their salivary microbiome, and we're using that to help guide their treatment as well. Wow.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's so cool. And that's so. I think, to me, that's so cutting edge. That's really what it should be. Right. That's where. That's the direction that. Because we're. Otherwise, we're. We're sitting there dealing with decay in the teeth. You know, okay, we're gonna, you know, fill it, we're gonna remove it, we're gonna replace it, all of that. But it's not really solving anything in terms of the. What's really going on under the surface that led to the tooth.

Exactly, exactly. It's just. It's tooth carpentry. And, you know, tooth carpentry has gotten really good over the years, just like surgery. In the medical side, we've got amazing advances in restorative dentistry, but if you're not getting to those root causes, what are we really doing?

And you mentioned fluoride, because the thinking was, oh, let's just give everybody a bunch of fluoride to prevent tooth decay. But then we figured out that there's issues with that. Maybe tell us a little more. If someone isn't as familiar with the issues with fluoride and you know, where to, like where they could be looking for it or, you know, avoiding it.

Yeah, well, if you're, if you're keeping up with political news and that's a double edged sword. I mean, I hope you are, but I hope you're not. But if you're, if you're keeping up with, with some of that, and that's one of the areas that RFK Jr has his eye on, on water fluoridation. And the reason that is one of the first things is because there is actually a lawsuit very recently that was won against the EPA against our own government. And the lawsuit, in the lawsuit, the judgment was that, you know, according to our own government scientific research, we don't know what a safe level of fluoride is yet. And all this time we've been adding it to water since World War II era in the 50s.

And so we've been adding it to water for decades and decades. And based on the research, we don't actually know what's safe and what's not safe. So there are quite a few issues with fluoride. One of the ones, the ones that were, that were most studied recently were our IQ levels in our kids. And this used to be something, when I was in dental school, the, it was only like the tinfoil hat people who said that fluoride was used to dumb down the population. It was all about population control. Well, holy smokes. Now there's actually peer reviewed evidence that says no, this actually does impact IQ and it impacts it significantly based on the levels of fluoride that kiddos are.

Getting.

Which is insane as any mom. If that doesn't make you just absolutely furious, I don't know what does. Because if you have potentially a 10 point IQ drop, if you've got a kid that's on the edge of needing help with life skills or needing help academically, those 10 points, that's a big difference. That could mean the difference between completely functioning and, and needing a lot of extra help.

So that's one of the worries. There are other worries too, like thyroid issues, pineal gland calcification. There are many different risks with the use of fluoride.

That I think we're just on the cusp of. And what's interesting too is that as we're really starting to dig into the numbers, you know, they were, they've always touted fluoride as just this huge advancement in public health because of how much the rate of tooth decay decreased after it was introduced. But if you really start looking and you look at other countries and other areas that did not choose to fluoridate their water, you'll see the same decrease in tooth decay. So it. It maybe didn't have as much to do with the fluoride as we thought it did. So there are a lot of risks with fluoride that I think we have underestimated over the years. There are benefits, there are oral health benefits of fluoride, but it's looking like those have been kind of overestimated over the years. So if that's the case, it doesn't. It doesn't fit with my values to use in practice. And I try to avoid it in my home where I can, you know, if it's. If it's in the water supply, it's everywhere. And that's part of why RFK Jr. It's on his radar, is you really cannot control the dose when it's in the water. In toothpaste, obviously, that's easier to control, but it's everywhere. You know, if it's in the water, then it's in that anasota. It's in any boxed or packaged food that was manufactured in any way with water from a municipal water source. It's in your homegrown vegetables in your backyard, if you're using your water hose to water those vegetables.

So again, you just can't get away from it. And that's the problem, is that we're not able to control the dose when it's in the water. So I'm really hopeful that within the next few years. I don't know if that's going to happen or not, but I would sure love for it to at least be out of the water supply. And then you get to decide, do you want to use fluoride toothpaste or do you not? I personally think it's unnecessary to use.

It's.

It's not a nutrient. It is not necessary for healthy teeth in any way. And we have other tools that we can use, other ingredients that we can use to help your teeth. So I'm. I'm excited that we don't have to use fluoride.

Well, and I think you're making a really important point for people to. To be able to think this through and see and to say, hey, why would we use something that has potential harm when we can choose something that doesn't have potential harm? Right. Like, even if we're comparing two things that have potential benefit, the one that has harm should be deprioritized. And the one that doesn't shouldn't be emphasized. And the more we, as we were talking about, the more we research even that microbiome and we realize, hey, this is something that if we optimize the microbiome in the mouth and we help people to make diet changes, those are two things that don't have harm and only help their overall health. Right. It's even more beneficial. So it's like it so much outweighs it. Right. It's not like we're. Because sometimes people might be afraid, are we taking away something that's, that's helping? But no, we're, we're just choosing other things that are more helpful with less risk. And it makes me think, like, and I know you have, and I'm excited to share with everyone that you have this online course where people can learn all the things you recommend for helping to prevent cavities and decay. Right. Like maybe tell us a little bit more about that. Like where, you know, because here we're.

Touching on it a little bit.

But I'm sure in that course you go into way more detail what can people. Because this, the thing with dental work is. Yes. If they need to have, let's say, filling or root canal, okay. Let's choose a dentist that's going to do it in the least invasive way possible. But what if we can actually prevent some of this decay? Right.

Exactly. Exactly. And that was really why I created the online course, because I, I know not everybody can get to me and even just with the patients in my own practice. Yeah, I, I schedule a long time with people, more than the average dentist, for sure. But even scheduling long visits, I still don't have time to go through all of the nutrition information that you need to know and all of the oral hygiene information that you need to know. There's just not enough time to be able to cover all of that. So I created an online course called the Cavity Cure. And we do, we go through really in, in chunks. We go through how to cure and prevent tooth decay from the outside in. So all the, you know, how to choose a toothbrush, what to actually look for in floss and toothpaste and all the things. And more importantly, how to heal your cavities from the inside out. You know, how to eat, how to support your gut health so that those teeth are just intrinsically strong and more resistant to decay. And then we talk about how to find a dentist, you know, different types of, of dental procedures and materials and things like that to look for. So it was it was a labor of love for sure. And something that I still go in and, and update as we get more information. So I'm happy to offer it to my patients and to the public also.

Oh, that's awesome. Oh my gosh. It just feels like it should be like what we all go through, like in school, you know, because it's not what we learn in school. Right? We just learn maybe wash your teeth and hopefully floss. But there's. The rest of this is not being taught.

And then, and then if all you're taught is brush better, floss more.

Then when, if you still get cavities and you're brushing better and flossing more, if you're doing everything they told you to do, and then you, all you do is just assume that you just have bad teeth. Well, I can tell you there is like 0.1% of the population that actually has a genetic condition that causes them to have quote, unquote, bad teeth. Otherwise, for most people, it's, it's just not a thing. Like, yes, you may have a genetic tendency towards certain things, but we can, we can turn those genes right off if we're giving you the right tools and the know how to, to handle those things on your own.

I love that. Thank you, Tony. Just to be like, yeah, you don't have to just believe that you have, you have bad teeth. It's like, okay, even if someone's been having difficulty with their teeth, have you seen some things be able to turn around? Like, sometimes people might feel like, oh, it might know, I'm too, I'm too far down the path. But do you see that even if someone's already been struggling with their, their teeth, that they can turn it around or. Absolutely, Absolutely.

And so, so what we do with our patients that come into the office is we'll take them through a 90 day accelerator program. Because I wanted to take the material that was in the online course and I wanted to make it really hands on and really more of like this functional medicine model where we coach and we test and we tweak and we test again. And so we do that in the office. And.

Since we started this program probably about a year, year and a half ago, we have a 100% success rate, like, which surprises even me, because sometimes it's a challenge to get people to be completely compliant.

But it shows you, even if you're not perfect, even if you make some consistent changes, it makes a difference.

Yes, it really does make a difference. So, yeah, we take people who. Now that's not to say that they don't necessarily have to get some dental work done. Sometimes they do, that is the case. But even then you're, we're combining the dental work with this really strategic focused care to change the ph of their saliva, change their oral microbiome so that when we test again at the end of the program, we're seeing those objective improvements and we're, we're able to see on paper in black and white that yeah, they've improved significantly. It's not just how their teeth look, it's not just how they look on the X ray, even though that's fantastic when we can do that too. But beyond the, the dental work, being able to see that their mouths are actually healthy again is, is incredible for patients to be able to see and experience.

Oh my gosh, so exciting because I know that for some people they feel really embarrassed about their mouth or they're right about if their, their smile or their breath. And so this can really impact people on a day to day basis and how they're interacting in their, in their life.

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean you can, I think all of us can think of those people in our lives who you can tell they hold back because they don't want to show their teeth. And so anytime we can give somebody their smile back or give them back the, that feeling of freedom, like they can speak and smile with confidence, then that's huge.

I've done a lot of detoxes over the years and many of them made me feel a lot worse. Not only that, but I've had a lot of patients, patients come in and tell me how after doing a detox they have a stomachache and headache and they can't sleep and they're feeling anxious and I'm like, I can't just recommend that my patients do a program that's gonna make them feel worse. So I finally decided to design my own detox program. It's a 14 day detox program that's not like other detox programs out there in several ways. One is that I'm focused on helping you to get the toxins out in a safe and effective way using nutrients, antioxidants and supporting our natural detoxification pathways in the body. Also, I'm helping you to decrease your exposure to toxins by learning the ways that you've been exposed to the toxins and how to change your day to day lifestyle to decrease your toxins over time. And I'm helping you to look not just at chemical environmental toxins, but also emotional and energetic toxicity. And yes, it's possible to accomplish all of this in 14 days. I have so many patients who have done the 14 day detox and report back to me how much better they feel. And I think it's also because I help you to know what to eat. You are getting adequate food that tastes good plus protein shakes that I developed that are good for your body, that your body knows how to use these.

Nutrients and take them in and use.

Them to help you safely detoxify without feeling worse. Also I help you to balance your blood sugar levels, get better sleep and introduce things like meditation, biofeedback and other types of stress recovery into your day to day routine. So I just am so excited about it. I want to make sure you know about this 14 day detox. I'm going to put the link, you can find it at drdani.com forward/detox-program but I'll also put the link below so you can find the 14 day detox program@drdani.com I look forward to guiding you through this detox so that you can actually feel better on your way to better health.

So big and I wanted to touch base a little bit too about the amalgam fillings because you mentioned that at the beginning and I this is something that I'm ask, always asking patients is do you have amalgam fillings? You know, if you look in your mouth you see anything silver because those fillings can as you mentioned contain mercury and that mercury can get into the body and cause other health issues. Maybe I'd love to hear from your perspective because to me, especially if someone's having certain health issues, autoimmunity for example, or sometimes it may be other health issues like neurological or memory changes or. Right. There's certain health issues that you might be thinking about, even fatigue and, and headaches that we might be like wait a minute, we should see if there's a. If the metal as well as other toxin exposures. But metal could be playing a role. Tell me more. Like when people, you know, what do you see with that? Like in the patients who come in to have amalgam fillings replaced, what kind of symptoms are they dealing with and improvements do they see and why it is so important to come to someone like you who really is careful with replacing those fillings?

Yeah, that part is, is most important. So the symptoms that you might have from having those amalgam fillings, that's going to be really vague and it's going to be hard to pinpoint so just like any chronic illness, it's really hard to just say, okay, this was the one thing that caused it. It's usually not just one thing, it's usually a whole lot of things. And then what we're trying to help our naturopathic friends and what we're trying to help our functional medicine friends do is just peel back layers of the onion for their patients so that they have the ability to heal better, more efficiently, more effectively. And so if a patient is, if they have those silver fillings, yeah, they are 50% mercury. And what I was told in dental school is that that mercury was chemically bound and it could not escape once it was mixed and in the tooth. But what we actually have found out is that any time you apply heat or friction to those fillings. So think chewing, brushing your teeth, drinking hot coffee, you actually do all the time, the things we do all the time, grind your teeth at night while you're sleeping. Then you actually will off gas some mercury in little tiny bits anytime there's heat or friction.

So over time, obviously that can be significant. Now maybe for some people they're, they've got a bigger toxic bucket and for some people it doesn't bother them a bit. But for other people, maybe it's too much and maybe that is an area where if we peel back that layer, then they can get to the next level of healing. And so when we take those out, we want to make sure because again, heat and friction releases mercury vapor. What do you think happens if Joe blow dentist off the street takes a high speed dental drill to that sucker? You're going to have a ton of mercury exposure. A ton. And that's why dentists in the old days, especially when they were placing those amalgam fillings, had incredibly high mercury levels and high level high rates of neurological diseases. They had more of an exposure from just dealing with those, carving them, drilling them out all day, every day. And so what we want to make sure that we do is use something called the SMART protocol. And SMART just stands for safe mercury amalgam removal technique. And it is layers of protection where we isolate the tooth. We protect you, the patient with many different layers. Like we literally cover you head to toe as much as possible so that all that's exposed is just that tooth. With the filling that we're going to be working on, we have special air filters that we use. We give you binders ahead of time to make sure that we're collecting anything that, that we might slip through our, our equipment. So just lots and lots of layers of protection. And then we'll always have our patients who we have a nurse that comes in. And so we'll do some good IV vitamins afterwards to help just help the body clear that stuff afterwards so that your liver and your kidneys and all the things can do the things it's supposed to do.

Amazing.

And you're.

And sometimes people will even travel to you for that. Right. Because it may be hard to find someone in your local area.

We do. We have a lot of patients that travel. I mean, we're in Texas and I'm in the Dallas area, which is huge. But. But we definitely have patients who. Because there are so many rural areas around Dallas that will drive in four or five hours. And then we've got plenty that fly from out of state that come in and will spend, spend a few days with us just to make sure that they can get the dental work done and have some time to rest and recoup afterwards.

It's so important and it's so worth it because sometimes we think, oh, I'm just going to go to something, someone local. But then, like you're saying, then you might end up making things worse by being exposed or not having all that support through the process. And then you get to the other side and you're like, darn, I wish I would have made the effort to go to a biological dentist who's following this smart protocol to make sure that if you're going to get the metal out, let's do it in a safe way. We don't want to expose you or your team to the metal in the process. And I see it make a huge difference. I've, over the years, seen what a difference it can make for patients when we can, like you say, peel back the layers of the onion. We're not going to just remove the amalgam fillings. We're going to. And I always say to patients, please don't just jump straight to that. Let me help you prepare for that. Right. Like, let's start in with some diet changes and gut healing and, and helping to restore healthy stress hormone levels and nutrient levels so your body's ready to heal, your body's. Right. Even if we're. We're. You need to do, do a root canal or any kind of dental work. I'm like, let me get your immune system set, your microbiome set, and then go do this. Right. It's going to have way better outcomes and less risk.

Absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I love collaborating with other providers. Because that just makes my job easier, honestly. You know, you get the patient ready ahead of time, their body is prepared, they handle things better. And then there's just that added trust layer that, hey, this. This practitioner recommended this practitioner. And so I know that I'm in good hands because this person has taken care of me so well so far.

Yeah, yeah, it's so. It's so important. And thank you so much for sharing all about that because it really helps, I think, when, when people, I mean, what would you say if someone's thinking about a dentist in general or a biological dentist? Are there, let's say, questions they should ask or things they should be looking for when they're considering a dental office that you're like, maybe this is what you would be looking for. How do you. Because sometimes people are like, how do I know I'm gonna landing in a good office that I like? You said trust is so important when you're working on your mouth, right. You're like, oh, my gosh, people already can have fear going to the dentist. So you want to feel like, okay, I want to feel like I can go in and trust this person with my mouth.

It's essential because I'm literally all up in your grill. I am in your face.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I would say probably the. The most reliable is start with a search. And the biggest organization is the iomt. It's a really long acronym. They didn't ask me, but. But that's the. The biggest organization of biological dentists. And so you can find probably the most robust directory there. And when you look on their directory, it'll show if the dentist is smart, certified, if they're accredited, it'll show how many of the meetings they've been to. So you kind of get a feel for, is this person just a member just to.

You know, have it on their marketing, on their website, or are they actually participating and active in the continuing education? So that would be one thing. And then obviously, if you're already working with a naturopathic provider of any kind, seeing who they recommend, because there's a good chance they'll already have a relationship with somebody in the area, most likely.

And then I always say, you just gotta go with your gut. Who. Who do you trust? And for some people, I'm not dogmatic about it. My values are my values, and so that's who I would want to go to. But if you have known your dentist for 20 years and they use fluoride, but they don't push it on you, and you Feel good about it, and you trust that person, and that's who you should be with. That's who you have trusted with your care so far. That's probably going to be your, your best fit. And that's okay. That's okay as long as they know your values and they're not pushing things that you're uncomfortable with. But yeah, absolutely, you, you've got to go with your gut, see who you feel best about. And then you can always ask questions on the phone. You know, how often do they do X rays? Do they use any fluoride, things like that to get a feel?

Yeah, that's a great, those are great points. Thank you so much. And I'm curious just as we're wrapping up with this, like, I be, I'd be like, okay, Tony, what do you do for your teeth? Like, if, you know, I know I'm going to have the link to your, your cavity cure course and all of your contact information so people can also reach out to you if, if they, you know, are interested in continuing. But I'm curious, like, like, is there like a miss, like, okay, so is there any tips you might give about tooth care that you're like, this is what I do, you know, every day or every week that you just wish everybody knew.

Absolutely.

I, I 100% believe that you get what you pay for in a toothbrush.

So a manual toothbrush, like, if you can find natural fibers and it's sustainable, that's all amazing. But really and truly, an electric toothbrush does work better. And a spin brush, that $7 is going to work better than a manual, but $100 electric toothbrush is going to work better than that $7 spin brush. So you get what you pay for. Yeah, it's worth the investment. For toothbrushes, floss really is an amazing tool, but again, I'm very pragmatic. So if you're older and have arthritis in your hands, or if you're a dude and you got some big fat fingers, then get a water pick. A water pick.

It's.

No, it's. Don't, don't tell my hygienist this, but it technically does not do quite as good of a job as flossing perfectly, but you may not be able to floss perfectly. So if that's the case, a water pick is fantastic.

It's better not flossing at all.

It's definitely better than not flossing at all.

And really, for toothpaste, you can keep it really, really simple. So if you don't if you're not prone to cavities, then just pick something in the health food store or do a powder or goodness. You could just use water on a really good toothbrush and that is fine. If you are cavity prone, then the best ingredients are going to have xylitol, xylitol with an X, it's a plant based sweetener. And calcium hydroxyapatite or ha is how a lot of people will abbreviate it. So those two active ingredients really can make your toothpaste more effective than a fluoride toothpaste. So don't feel like you have to do a Crest or Colgate or big brand toothpaste. You really don't have to. And then mouth wash you really, I want people to stay away from these really harsh alcohol based mouthwashes. If it stings, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's working well, I used to think that.

But again, you want to support your microbiome. You don't want to necessarily take a blowtorch to it and so, so ease off on the mouthwash unless you're working closely with your dentist. And really that's it. Like keep it simple. It's more about diet than it is anything else. So good healthy fats, make sure you've got optimal vitamin D levels and that's really what's going to make those teeth intrinsically strong and more resistant to decay.

Oh my gosh, thank you. That is so helpful. And it's like, like you start to go, okay, these are some things we can start to look at and even replace if we haven't already. And then if you, you know, as you start to. Because I'm always thinking of getting, I get my teeth cleaned at least every six months. Is that what you usually recommend is like, like get in and get a teeth cleaning but go to a dentist. That's going to be more of this biological experience, if possible.

Yes, for sure, for sure. And for most people, six months is great. For some patients, it benefits them to come in more often. And some patients, you know, rarely, not always, but some patients once a year is just fine. So it really depends on the health of the mouth. But yeah, I think coming in and if you can find a biological dentist to go to, I think think that's amazing.

Amazing too. All right, thank you. And I, I don't, I hadn't asked you this before but you know, I work so much with HPV and I'm usually working with high risk HPV that women are diagnosed with with a Pap Smear. But I'm also aware that high risk HPV is associated with 70% of, of head and neck or oral cancer. So I'm wondering if that's right. Something, I mean, that's something also that the dentist should be helping, I mean, identify when a tumor. That's another good reason to go in and say, hey, is there something happening in my mouth that I wasn't aware of? But are, are you noticing an increasing trend of identifying HPV related issues in the mouth or are you seeing that that might be something that could be being tested more often at the dentist's office?

I think that's one of the areas where I think even mainstream we're recognizing that it's definitely a problem. And any good dentist is going to be doing an oral cancer screening at every checkup. So we're looking, we're looking for anything that looks just not quite right, anything that looks off. And so if we're seeing anything that looks suspicious to us, then yes, your dentist is absolutely the best person to be able to pick up on when things aren't quite right. Well, we're the best person next to you. You're always, you know, your mouth the best. But we're, we're absolutely checking for these things at every visit and you know, doing the appropriate biopsy if and when we see something.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's, it's such an important remember because oftentimes we're just thinking of our teeth, but it's like, no, we're, you're looking at everything. And with your exam, it's like, this is a chance to be like, okay, is there anything that you needs attention? And it's, and I just like to mention it because it is such a way more common than we realize.

So absolutely.

Oh my goodness. Well, thanks again so much, Tony. It's so fun to talk to you. I love to get to talk about this and, and to help remind everybody, hey, you're taking care of your oral. Health is so important and not just for, yes, it helps with your interaction in the world and, you know, your smile, but it also is helping with your whole health. And I love that that's the perspective that you take in your work.

Oh, thank you, Donnie. And I love getting to talk to you as well.

Yay.

Thank you.

Thanks for being here on how humans heal. Thanks for everyone for joining us. And if you haven't already, I welcome you to subscribe so you don't miss the episode next episode. Thanks again, Dr. Tony, for being here with us today and thanks everyone for joining in. I'll see you soon.

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