#261 Food as Medicine: A Guide to Healing Through Nutrition with Chef James Barry

The information provided in this podcast is educational and not intended to diagnose or treat medical conditions.

Dr. Donnie Wilson struggled for decades to solve her numerous health issues and heal her body. But with focused determination, she healed herself and in doing so, she discovered the Dr. Donnie stress recovery Protocol. On this show, you're going to hear from doctors, nutritionists and Experts along with Dr. Donnie who will give practical advice and wisdom to help heal your body. This is how humans heal.

Hi and welcome. Welcome to how humans heal. I'm Dr. Donnie Wilson and I'm really looking forward to introducing you today to James Berry. James is a CEO and founder of an organ based superfood seasoning called Pluck. So we're going to be talking about that today and how exciting that is as well as James is a private chef. He's been a chef for over 20 years and has cooked for celebrities like Tom Cruise and George Clooney and Barbra Streisand. And we want to hear what that's like to be a private chef and why someone might choose that and why in the Importance of Cooking at Home. James is also the co author of several cookbooks, helping authors to create their recipes. So I just think that's so awesome. Thank you so much for being here today, James.

Thank you for having me, Dr. Donnie.

I know it's something as a clinical nutritionist and naturopathic doctor, I'm always talking to people about their diet and their food choices and they're always asking Me, you know, Dr. Donnie, what do you eat? What should I eat? What should I not eat? You know, so it's this constant ongoing conversation about food which is so important because literally our food can be our medicine or our food can be work against us in our health if we're not paying attention. Right? So that's why it's so. I so much love what you do as a really, I would think of it like a, you're like a holistic chef. You know, how do you eat in a healthy way? How do you cook and eat in a healthy way?

Well, I'm very much like the how guy, so. So clients would meet with people like yourself, whether it's doctors, nutritious dietitians, really anyone in the health field that's dispensing that kind of information. And inevitably that person would say, okay, this is why you're going through what's going, what's happening. This is what you have to stop eating. And then it's usually the entire list of what people are eating. And then they go, well, how Do I do that? And then the doctors go, well, let's call Chef James because he'll tell you how. Because I understand swaps and I know how to make the food.

I know how to make those swaps so that they are delicious and so that the person doesn't feel like they're being deprived. Which is, you know, really key whenever you're dispensing any information around food is you got to remember people are human and, and there's a lot of emotions tied to food. So we have to make it. We can't just say, don't eat this and eat that. We have to really consider what's the emotional state and how do we support and meet the person where they are and then swap the foods in that are going to be most conducive towards their desired outcome.

Absolutely. I completely agree with you. When I, Whenever I talk with patients about, let's say, reducing inflammation in their diet or avoiding foods, that might be a food sensitivity, you know, it's about how do we. How do we frame this? In a way, we want to make these decisions to benefit your health. And at the same time, it shouldn't have to mean that you now have a completely restrictive, boring, bland diet. It can be. There's so many other foods to choose from. How can we do this in a way where you actually fall in love with your new way of eating that's actually supporting your health?

Yeah. And. Well, and sometimes eating the same food is boring for people, if that's the case. And so sometimes when someone is. Is kind of faced with having to eat the same small variety of food, so it feels like they're eating the same food every day, it's really a shift of mindset that I think has to happen. And, and when I'm always trying to, I kind of treat myself like a guinea pig. You know, I've. Over the 20 years I've been a chef, I'm always trying different diets because I need to understand them not just on that diet level, but how to make the food on that diet really delicious. Right. Particularly when I used to cook for clients. And so whenever I would do like, let's say the carnivore diet, for example, I actually found that to be a really liberating diet because you are eating the same foods every day. And a lot of people spend an enormous amount of time on trying to figure out what to eat. And a lot of times that decision fatigue sets in when they are supposed to be making that decision of what to eat. And then they make poor decisions. So I find actually just switching that mindset, being like, well, actually just eating the same food over and over is actually a blessing because you already, you know exactly what you need to do. It's not complicated. You can find a system to it and then it's just about get your needs met and move on. And let's not make so much of. About, you know, let's not make our whole life about food.

Isn't that something hearing that from the. From the chef. Right. Like how to. How to make food sort of like enjoyable and simple so it doesn't have to be. Yes. Such a. Such an overwhelming thing where that you write like, so that it doesn't have to be all about the food because you already just made decisions that you. And you're enjoying and things that work.

Exactly. I think it's, you know, I think we tend to put certain energies towards food and misdirect them. Like, I think it. I think being a foodie, being someone who loves to cook is great, but putting expectations on yourself as though you are supposed to love cooking is an issue. And a lot of people are putting those pressure, those kind of pressures on themselves and it ruins the eating process for them. It ruins food. It either creates addictions or, you know, addictions in that they're overeating or it creates an addiction. And when they're undereating, you know, I mean, so it can go either way. And I think, you know, when we say stuff like I love French fries, like, and I. We put that emphasis of love towards food, it's extremely misdirected because that's what we should be putting towards people.

That's the energy, like you want to be directing towards the people in your life. I love my daughter, I love my wife, you know, things like that. I like food. It's a totally different energy when we equate the same energy that we would put towards our marriage towards food, that co. Like that cohabitates or that kind of co. Creates food issues, you know, food addictions.

Yeah, it's such a good point. It's. And a lot of times we do need to do a lot of healing of our relationship. Relationship with food, you know, like. And so I love that you're bringing that up. That's how I refer to it is our relationship with food. You know, how do we. How can we feel confident and clear? Obviously, as humans, we need to feed ourselves. That's sort of a. It's like a. We need to sleep, we need to eat. And if we fight against it to the degree that we fight against that, then it becomes a stress in itself, like you're saying, or an addiction or an overwhelm. But if we can just go, okay, as humans, we need to sleep, we need to eat, we need to do some movement and we kind of accept that and we go, okay, so how can I make that doable for myself and, and good for my health at the same time? And that's where I'm curious about so many things I want to ask you. But one is, you know, even just the concept of a private chef, because I know a lot of people might be like, hey, you know, like I feel overwhelmed with cooking. I don't have time to go shopping. I don't know, I can't think of any more recipes. Is that when someone usually say, hey, maybe I should consider having a private chef or, or you know, when would people, when would that be? Sometimes something for people to consider.

Well, I think first and foremost it, it starts with affordability. You know, it's, it's definitely not cheap to have a private chef. But if, but you'd be surprised. I mean people assume it's going to be an incredible amount of money and that they can't afford it. But offsetting, like if, if cooking food is not your forte and you are constantly busy with your work, that is your forte, then it is worth no different than having someone else clean your house. It's worth your time to have someone else prepare it. Because the issue that really, we all have to really accept is that when you are eating out or when you are outsourcing your health to restaurants and grocery stores for pre made food, you're pretty much guaranteed you will not be healthy. It's, it's almost a 100 guarantee. Because you have to remember those institutions, whether it's a grocery store or restaurant, those are businesses, they have bottom lines. They have to make sure they make a profit. So they are cutting corners. They are going to be cutting quarters with specific ingredients. Sometimes they bought by pre made stuff. And when you don't have control over your ingredients, you're basically saying, well, whatever that person believes is healthy is what I will accept. But I'll tell you right now that the grocery stores don't think about health. The restaurant's not thinking about health, they're thinking about profit. You know, maybe they have a mission. If they do, great. But I guarantee it's not specific to your health. And so we really have to think about what is that definition of health and most likely yours. Is going to be unique to what your body needs. And so you have to be in control of your ingredients. And if you don't have time to do that, then yes, absolutely, outsource it to a private chef or, or even there's sometimes chefs who, I don't know what you would call them, but they're like kind of meal services where they.

They will have a chef come to your house and cook like a week's worth of food. So it's kind of like batch cooking for your entire week. So it's a little different than having someone come in every day like I, I used to do for, for those celebrity clients. But it's not a bad deal. You know what I mean? If you're someone who just needs that food and needs and needs to make sure you're meeting a certain.

Diet criteria or, or protocol really key to just get it done. Like don't, don't overthink it and just make sure it gets done and gets done within your control.

I love that you're putting that out, that it's, where are you sourcing your ingredients? And you have to kind of step back and think, hey, if I'm ordering from like you said, a restaurant or a store or somewhere where it's already pre made, we don't, you don't know what oil they might be using. Did they add sugar? What kind of seasoning are they putting?

Assume that they did. I mean, you know the rotisserie chickens that everyone goes and buys at pretty much every grocery store out there, Those are not healthy. Just not. It's a guarantee. Even whole foods, when you go to their pre made, you know, food area, that is not healthy. People think it is because they associate whole foods with being healthy. But if you read the ingredients and you really need to read the labels, you will see they're using canola oils, they're using ingredients that you would not use at home. They're, they're using, A lot of times they're using this, the, the products that would be going bad. So they have to use it up. And that's how they're, they're making, you know, using their produce or their, that's how they're using their meats. They, they're just making, they're making it so that they can make a profit off of it. And the sauces have preservatives in it. They, there's dextrose, there's all these different things, carriers, you name it, it's in there. It's usually also high in salt. So you just have to be, you just have to like relook at what it is you're, where you're choosing to off source your health. And remember point, you can get control. You get, it's just, it's so easy to get control back. And where it starts is you got to home cook. You just got to bring it home. Whether it's you cooking or someone else, but you control the ingredients. And one of the key things I look for when I am in control of my ingredients is I look for food that is an ingredient versus food that has an ingredient.

I love that. Tell me more about that.

Well, I, it's, it's really kind of playing off of what I said is you don't like, I, I call it don't fall asleep at the cart. So when you're grocery shopping, make sure you read those labels because people assume, I can't even tell you. Like, I was just reading some posts the other day and someone was highlighting my product pluck and saying, oh, I put pluck in there. But then in the photo they were also adding kinder seasoning, kinder steak seasoning. So they're adding multiple seasonings and I was like, hey, I love this shout out. But just be careful of kinder because if you read those ingredients, they're using sunflower seed oil, they're using sugar, there's dextrose in it. There's. People are assuming like, oh well, it's a seasoning. What's the bad, what's. What could be bad about it. But I guarantee you, if you don't read that, that, that label, you are probably getting stuff. And it's a, and it's a, and it's something that's a processed food, you know, or like a packaged food. I guarantee there's going to be stuff in there that you don't, you don't realize are exposed.

Even if you buy it at Whole Foods, right? This is the thing. I end up going to the store and I'm going to health food stores or Whole Foods and I'm picking up every label like you say, I'm picking it up. I got my glasses on in the store, I'm reading it and I'm like, if there are certain things and I'm like, if it's in there, I'm going to put it right back on the shelf like you said, if it's, if it's a type of what's yours, what's.

Your ingredients that you, if it's in there, you, you put it back. What Are your, what's your.

I'm looking for like the, the sweeteners first of all. Like if there's, I don't even like if it's, especially if it's a sauce or a seasoning, I'm like, that's not where I want to spend my sugar points or however you want to refer to that. You know, if I'm going to have sugar, I want it as something that's a sweet thing, you know, not in my sauce or seasoning. So I'm looking for anything that says sugar but also some of these that are sugars that aren't. Doesn't say sugar on the label.

Like dextrose is a sugar. Yep. And it's usually a corn based sugar. So if you're sensitive to corn, you know you're going to have issues.

And even any of those like sorbitol, erythritol, there's all these sugar alcohols. Because then what I find is in patients are saying, why am I bloated? Why am I constipated? Why do I have loose stool? What. And it's like, wait a minute there. You might be having a sea. Some, some packaged product that has these, these sugars in there or even like you said, some of the kind of like thickeners like carrageenan or sometimes the yeast. Like sometimes you're buying like even chips. It looks like you're. I'm like, I get so annoyed. I'm buying corn chips and then I look at the ingredients and they've got some sort of yeast extracts. Which is kind of a catch all phrase, right?

Absolutely. Yeah. You, you really like. So on my short list is, is artificial flavors and even natural flavors. I, if I see any flavor additive, I question it. Now sometimes I accept it. Like I, if I know that the company is fairly clean, you know, but usually those are not even the companies you can find in the grocery stores. They're not, they're not in retail. But, but, but yeah, most of the time if I see artificial ingredients or natural flavors, because here's the thing a lot of people aren't thinking about because the other excuse I hear the most is, oh, well, I'm, it's just, I'm only getting a little bit. It's like no, it's in everything. And you might be getting in your, your sauce, you know, in your dressing, but then you're also getting it in your, your bar, your protein bar. You're also getting in your, your protein shake. You're also getting it in your, your electrolyte powders, you.

Pre made kind of boxed food. So you're getting it from so many multiple sources and it's adding up. And an example is like even something like an electrolyte powder that comes in a stick, the amount of flavoring that is in there can actually have a high amount of dextrose because these flavorings have carriers and a lot of times people don't think about it. But the flavor that the carrier can be maltodextrin for example, which is a corn based product. It can be something else that you're not thinking about. So I really like, if, if I read that label and it's got something that I don't understand, can't, you know, my brain doesn't recognize as a natural food, then I stay away from it because there's probably ingredients that are in it that are not listed on that label.

Yep, yep, I'm with you. I'm completely agree with you. And the oils too, you mentioned, you know, you have to be mindful, like sometimes it seems like it's going to be a healthy product, but then if it's, if it's a canola oil or a type of oil that you're like, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't normally cook with that oil, so why would I want it in my food product?

Oh, and you know, they're tricky too because they'll say like this has, it has. And then they'll put, and, or they'll say like sunflower, sunflower oil, canola oil or sore or soy oil. Oh, I guarantee it's probably more soy than it is the others because soy is the, the one that's subsidized the most, you know, so, so you just, they, they kind of like they'll mix up sugars to your point as well. So they'll, they'll act like this thing has three to four different types of sugars. Might have rice, rice syrup, you know, in it. It might, might also have maple syrup, might have honey, but it also might have corn syrup. They'll mix up, you know, sugars or types of sugars because if they actually just put in one, then it would be the highest ingredient. So by mixing it up, they can then spread it out and doesn't look like it'. So there's all these tricks, all these tricks. And one of the biggest ones is, and this is what's so key is why you have to turn the package around. Read the back of the package. Not the front, the front of the package is not regulated. It is no different than a billboard. So that's. I was going to say I brought up RX bars a second ago and just to finish that thought. So RX bars on the front say, you know, only natural ingredients. They'll list, like, egg whites this, dates this, that. And I think it's like four ingredients. Well, then you turn it over and it's like, oh, no, wait, what's this? Natural flavors. And they have other ones on the back because those are regulated and they have to actually include everything that's in there.

So you got to look at the back. Even if it's the fine print, it's so worth it. And, and I love this point that it's like, it's really in this constant context of paying attention to what we're putting into our bodies, because that's where health and wellness comes from. We, what we put in our, what we swallow, what we digest, what we absorb is going to determine the health of our body, of our cells, of our immune system, of so much more. So it's so worth it to pay attention to all of this for, especially if you're wanting to reduce inflammation, reverse autoimmunity, prevent infections, improve your longevity. You know, all of the things we're trying to prevent can happen by paying attention to these details. And you're right, it's like, it adds up. We think it's only just this one thing, but then it's over our whole lifetime. So it does make a difference. And, and when you're referring to, like, cooking at home, because let's, let's transition to that a little bit of like, because I know some people may feel afraid of that or overwhelmed by that or kind of like, how am I going to do that with the rest of my busy life? So maybe you have a little bit of like, if someone's like, okay, I understand, it's going to be better if I just make it myself. So how am I going to do that? How am I going to be able to, you know, get started with cooking at home?

Absolutely, yes. Because we can't just say, this is good for you and then not give you, you know, value on how to do it, how to, how to achieve it. And so I'm glad you asked. So here's a couple of things. Is, is, as I mentioned already, do not assume you have to love to cook. Just because we eat does not mean you have to love to cook. It is not for everyone. And guess what? That's okay. So first of all, give yourself the permission to not love it. And then let's now focus instead on loving cooking, and let's now create a loving environment. Because if the environment is one that you enjoy, there has elements to it that excite you, then maybe you will actually enjoy the act of cooking versus feeling like you have to be an amazing chef. So how I might do that is I might put on my favorite podcast while I'm cooking. I might make sure that it's a nice sunny room or that there's, you know, good lighting in the room so it doesn't feel dark, maybe have bright colors. I would also think about. If you don't like making recipes, don't think of it as a recipe. Just think of it as a formula. And what's the formula? Well, I need some protein. Whatever, you know, protein of your choice. I need some fat. Fat. And depending on your diet, you need some vegetables and maybe some resistant starch. And then you. You start to think, okay, if I'm having chicken, for example, and let's just say the fat is coconut oil, then that feels already like, oh, that's kind of Asiany. Maybe I want some bok choy as the vegetable with some carrots opposed to broccoli or something, or peppers. You know, I mean, like, you just start to build what is the genre of the meal that I'm eating and what. What foods fit in that genre? And, and then you just basically just keep it very simple. You know, a simple saute, you know, or. Or even if you do a slow cooker, an air fryer, just keep it really simple, but build it off of those principles with that protein, that fat, and then some veg that fit. Fit the. The other two. And then I would say the most underrated health tool that will. Will change everyone's life if they do it that most people are not doing is meal planning. Meal planning is a game changer. First of all, it will right away lower your food bill because you won't be making impulsive purchases. You'll be. You'll be actually buying the things you use, and you'll most likely limit the junk food, because once again, that's not in your meal plan. That's something you're making, you know, because, oh, well, this is on sale or because you're hangry when you're shopping, right? So you. You're building it off of the meals you. You, you know, dictate. These are the ones that are gonna. I'm gonna eat during the week. But here's something else that you. You might do when you're meal planning is, look at your schedule. So let's just say if you have a day where you're in meetings all day and there's gonna be no time to really stop to cook, then that would be a day where I would schedule it as a slow cooker day where I would throw everything in a pot, I would set the slow cooker for a timer, and boom, just hit start at the beginning of my day, and then at the end of my day, it's already cooked. So you can actually change what foods am I making that day, but also how am I making it based on the schedule, you know, your, your work schedule. And I think by just incorporating all of those things, people will immediately find, oh, cooking's not as hard as I thought because I'm actually putting some pre thought into it. I'm being mindful about the ingredients I'm bringing into my kitchen and I'm making, I'm making sure that my environment is filled with things I love.

Since I don't love cooking, I love all these ideas. Thank you so much, James. And I use that terminology too, of building a meal, right? Because it's, it is, it's like a, when you think about it, like, how do I build a meal built like with protein, fat and then. Yeah, like a vegetable. I like how you described it. Or, or a fruit or, you know, like, that's. Those, that's what food's made from anyway, right? Those are, that is food. You know, our calories come from protein, fat and carbs. So it's like, okay, let. If you. And you don't have to be like, I love that you're not saying, you know, you don't have to count percentages or calories or like, I agree with that. Like, it's not about counting because I think sometimes people feel afraid, am I going to have to count? I mean, the only thing maybe I would. The only number I might look at is how many grams of protein. Because you can kind of get a quick be that you can get a quick sense of, hey, if I have three to four ounces of whether it's chicken, turkey, fish, right, you're pretty much know you're gonna get a good number of grams of protein. So you can kind of go, okay, this much, right? Like, would you say it's like, if you go, okay, this much is going to be, you know, a good starting place to get enough grams of protein? Or how do you describe that? How do you, like, someone says, how do I know I'm getting enough protein in Each meal. What's the quick, quickest way to figure that out?

Well, yeah, there's a lot of figures out there, right, that, that are very popular right now. I, I still stand behind that. You know, everyone's body is different. And, you know, you know, you and I, for example, are completely different sizes, so our needs are going to be different. So you should probably base it off of your weight, you know, and then you would factor in, you know, the, the grams or the ounces of meat you're eating based off of that. But more importantly, if you're some, like, here's the thing that, you know, I, I have learned to accept and I used to fight this, but if you're someone, for example, looking to lose weight, well, first of all, I would focus on three main things. One thing I would look for is make sure you get enough sleep. Because when we don't get enough sleep, we make poor food decisions. It affects every decision we make in the rest of the day. So right away, focus on just getting good sleep and creating an environment to produce good sleep. Like dark, you know, make sure your room is dark, not too hot. Things like that. Don't look extreme at screens right before going to bed. Those things that alone will start to move your health needle. Then make sure you're regular. Make sure you are not only waking up and going to bed at the same time, because that's going to also support good sleep, but also that you're then eating at the same times every day. It will. That. That discipline in time will actually start to regulate your body. But I would then say there's another trick which is, you know, there's a reason why a lot of times when you go to restaurants, you get the salad first, right? Or the soup first is because that's where a lot of the vegetables are, and they're fibrous. So if you want to, you know, make sure you're not overeating on the, you know, the other carbs, you know, the starches and stuff, then eat your vegetables first because that will prevent you from overeating. Even the protein and all the other stuff. Because you can overeat with protein. I mean, that, that is the reality. I think most people do undereat protein, but I, I for one, have been historically very carnivorous. And if I eat too much protein, it just converts to fat. So it's like it, it doesn't work for me. So. So you want to find that balance. And, and then I would offer too, that if there's foods that are going to Throw off your desired outcome. Like for me it would be like ice cream or chips, salsa, those kind of things. Do not bring them in your house. Yeah, if they're in the kitchen, you will find, I will find an excuse to eat them. And I'm sure you're no different than me. It's like we will make up an excuse, oh, I had a hard day, or oh, it's my birthday, I deserve this, or, or whatever it is, you know what I mean? We will make an excuse. So just don't bring it into your house because if you make it something that you have to go outside, that you have to work for, I guarantee you will do it less.

I've done a lot of detoxes over the years and many of them made me feel a lot worse. Not only that, but I've had a lot of patients come in and tell me how after doing a detox they have a stomachache and headache and they can't, they can't sleep and they're feeling anxious and I'm like, I can't just recommend that my patients do a program that's going to make them feel worse. So I finally decided to design my own detox program. It's a 14 day detox program that's not like other detox programs out there in several ways. One is that I'm focused on helping you to get the toxins out in a safe and effective way using nutrients, antioxidants and supporting our natural detoxification pathways in the body. Also, I'm helping you to decrease your exposure to toxins by learning the ways that you've been exposed to toxins and how to change your day to day lifestyle to decrease your toxins over time.

Time.

And I'm helping you to look not just at chemical, environmental, toxins, but also emotional and energetic toxicity. And yes, it's possible to accomplish all of this in 14 days. I have so many patients who have done the 14 day detox and report back to me how much better they feel. And I think it's also because I help you to know what to eat. You are getting adequate food that tastes good, plus protein shakes that I developed that are good for your body, that your body knows how to use these.

Nutrients and take them in and use.

Them to help you safely detoxify without feeling worse. Also I help you to balance your blood sugar levels, get better sleep and introduce things like meditation, biofeedback and other types of stress recovery into your day to day routine. So I just am so excited about it. I want to make sure you know about this 14 day detox, I'm going to put the link, you can find it at Dr. Donnie.com forward/detox-program but I'll.

Also put the link below so you.

Can find the 14 day detox program@doctrordani.com I look forward to guiding you through this detox so that you can actually feel better on your way to better health.

Yeah, so true. You know, you're reminding me one thing that I've been doing lately that I think has been very helpful if this might help one of the listeners too, some of the listeners is my daughter who's college age. She has, she drives by the local health food store between college and in my house. So I give her a grocery list. And the thing that I found was really helpful was actually making what is it would be on my grocery list. So I encourage you, if you don't already do that, like think to yourself what would, what goes on your shopping list for your, you know, like if you had a, a weekly grocery list and like you're saying, James, don't, don't put stuff on the shopping list that you don't want to be available for yourself in the kitchen. So I don't put ice cream on the shopping list. You know, I, I put, what's on my shopping list very consistently is arugula. I always love to have arugula in my fridge because that means that I can quickly make like you're saying I can quickly make a salad and get my greens in with arugula. And arugula stays fresh in the fridge for at least a week usually. So I'm like, okay. So my daughter knows, she's like, she's going to go to the store, she's going to make sure I get arugula. I'd like to have an avocado if I can have, there's a good like. So she might buy one or two avocados. So I just have them ready to cut. You know, maybe I'm cutting up a quarter of an avocado to put with the arugula or to put with something else. And then I'm, I'm always like for protein I'll say like it and this way I know like you're saying, I know I can say it's going to be free range chicken or it's going to be hormone free free range turkey or it's going to be wild salmon. And I'll give her, I say, I'll say to her, get me two, two or Three proteins. And so she just knows she's going to pick two or three proteins for me to choose from over the week. So they're just in my fridge ready to cook. And so this way, once I cook them, I can have them over a couple days and I might, I might put then that protein with the arugula so I can quickly make a salad. I can have like arugula with avocado and a protein. And then I usually make my own dressing. I don't know. I'd love to hear your. What you do as dressing, James. Whoops. There's my.

Yeah, you were asking me if I.

For salad dressing, what I do is I get a mustard that doesn't have sugar. Like we were saying, it has to be just the simplest ingredients of mustard, like an organic mustard with no sugar. And then I get olive oil. So I put the olive oil with the mustard. And then I get a balsamic vinegar that also. You have to wash for the ingredients in the balsamic vinegar, too. Just a very simple balsamic vinegar ingredients. And I just mix together the mustard, olive oil, and the balsamic vinegar that becomes my dressing. And so this way I can quickly make a salad with protein. And, and, and I can, I can always just say to my daughter when she' going by the store, oh, I need more olive oil or I need more avocados or, you know, so she knows what to get. So I always have what I need in the fridge. But how. What do you. What do you think? How do what. Is there anything I should say about that?

I think that's great that, that just to say, like you would be creating that, that grocery list if you were meal planning, too. So it's the same. It's this very similar concept. You're controlling what comes in your kitchen, and it's a set list. So you're not. Not adding things that you don't need or that are superfluous. I. For making your own dressing. Here is a very simple formula for everyone. Is you just follow a ratio. It's three to one. That's what I would recommend doing. And three to one is just. You just choose what is the delivery system over that ratio. So let's just say it's a tablespoon. So that would be 3 tablespoons of oil to 1 tablespoon of acid, which could be the balsamic vinegar, could, could be lemon juice, could be a different type of vinegar, or brown rice or apple cider, whatever you choose. But if you just follow that three to One and throw it in a mason jar, seal it, shake it. You just have, you know, you just created a 30 second salad dressing. And that will work for almost any, any of those things. Fat acid. And then of course you could flavor it up. You can add your mustard, you could add seasonings. You know, there's, there's lots of ways to just add different flavors so you can keep it interesting. But that ratio should serve most people very easily because that's the key is most people are getting these really poor ingredients in their dressings and salad dressings. So making your own, if there's one thing you do, it's like I mentioned, the sleep would be probably at the top of my list. But this, the next thing would be is just make your own dressings right away that you'll see some huge health benefits, probably loss of inflammation right away.

I love that. And it's, it's I, it's I, it's so quick for me. Like it's, it's, it's amazingly simple to make your own dressing. And then you just, like you're saying then you just know what the ingredients are, you know what the fats are. And now you're like say if you're using olive oil, which is what I recommend, then you're gonna, now you're getting these healthy oils. Not just are you avoiding bad oils, but you're actually giving healthy oils. Now this brings us to talk about Pluck P L U C K which is your product. And I am excited about this because this is something that you recently gave me a sample to try and I, so now it's become part of my, my cooking routine because so here when my, say my daughter brings me some protein, you know, if it's chicken or whatever kind of protein I'm going to be making, then what would happen is I go to the, my skillet, this cast iron skillet and I'm putting, and I'm then when I'm cooking with heat, by the way, I usually have been using avocado oil. I don't know if you have a favorite there, James, for when you're cooking with heat.

Yeah, I, I, I usually do, I use a lot of animal fats. So I'll use ghee for example, which is clarified butter. But it all depends on the genre of the food, you know.

Oh, you said sometimes coconut oil. I feared some.

Yeah. So coconut oil, probably the three ones I use the most would be coconut oil, lard and which is pork fat. And then, and then I use ghee. Those are the three I use the most and why I like those is because, you know, animal fat is, stays solid at room temperature 2 degree. I mean if it's really hot it turns liquid. But it, but point being is it doesn't go bad. It just, it's just, it's just, you don't have to keep it in your refrigerator. It's fine actually, you know, just to share with everyone. You want to taste the best roasted potatoes in your entire life. Yeah, I love roasted like you like roasted potatoes. Okay, so here's the tip. Cook them in duck fat.

Ah, ducks. Where do you buy that? Because I haven't seen that at the store.

Oh yeah, they got it, they got it, they got it. There's lots of companies now that sell it. So duck fat, you can go to the, just go to the aisle. It's not going to be in the be, it's not going to be in the cold storage because you don't need to have fat kept in cold. It'll probably be on the shelves, you know, and where I think Epic Provision sells duck fat. And if you can't find it there, it might be in the freezer for what, some inane reason. Why? Just because they don't have the shelf space or something like that. You just never know what a grocery store is going to do. But I, but it's not something that will be in the cold like the, with all the other dressings it's going to be on the shelf where you find the fats, the other fats, you know, coconut oils and whatnot. But duck fat and roasted potatoes is truly game changing. Butter is also nice, but you just gotta do it at low, very low temperatures. And then you know, keep in mind, even though I know most of us don't cook with olive oil, we're told not to but you know, and it's Italy, they do, they, they do, they do everything in oil. So the key is just do low temperature. You know, when you're cooking it, if you are cooking it, just do very low temperature. But you're gonna, anytime you cook anything, you are gonna denature it. You're gonna lower the nutrients. That's why even with pluck. So for those that might be curious. So pluck is a way to get organ meats into your diet easily and deliciously because it's really for people that don't like the taste of organs but realize that they need the nutrients. They, so they want the benefits, but they don't like the taste. So it is freeze dried, powdered Organs. It's liver, heart, kidney, spleen, and pancreas. It's combined with organic spices and herbs to make it taste good. And then it's as easy as salt in your food. And I usually recommend people put it on after they cook, because then you're going to maximize the flavor and the nutrition. So I use it as a finishing salt, personally. That's how I use it the most. But if I'm making, let's say, ground meat, then I will mix it in and cook it with it. But that's because the meat's protecting it. That's one thing just to share. You know, when we cook with seasonings and you're. Let's say you're grilling that. Let's say it's a steak, and you cover that steak with seasonings, and then you grill it, what color does that steak get?

Brown or dark brown.

A lot of times it gets black, right? You get those grill marks and it gets black. Well, that's. That's burning. That's. That's basically the seasonings burn, burning. Like, for example, paprika burns extremely easy. So if there's paprika in the season, it's going to turn black, I guarantee it. And what happens when seasonings turn black is they get bitter. Anything turns black, it gets bitter. So a lot of times you'll see sugar in seasonings, and the sugar is helping to offset the bitterness from, you know, from the rub or whatever it is. So that's why, you know, usually when people are cooking meats and they're grilling them or they're cooking them over high heat, I always recommend just simply do salt. Just sprinkle some salt on there, maybe a little pepper. But for the most part, use the seasonings after or as a finisher. So, like, maybe melt some butter with the seasoning and then just pour that right over whatever you're eating, whether it's chicken or fish or. Or beef, and you'll see it's just. It will pop. The flavors will pop. The nutrition will be even more prevalent. It's just. It's so much better for you.

Well, this is what I. From my perspective with pluck. Like, I mean, the thing I found is that, say I make chicken and I put the pluck on there. It just has this amazing flavor. Like, it's, It's. It's like.

It'S hard to describe until you taste it, except to say that it's delicious to have when you put the pluck seasoning on your food. And it's. And it's not, there's no, there's no sugar in there. No, it's not as sweet thing. It's a, it's that umami taste. Is that like, you know, hey, this has a savory taste and it, and the thing that, to me that was one of the easiest things is because it's, it is so easy. You just putting on one, you know, one seasoning, sprinkle, sprinkle and it's like, oh my gosh, this tastes so good. And it doesn't have anything in there that I don't want. It doesn't have any sugar, any preservatives, any of those things we just mentioned. It's not in there. It only has that. So then the bonus is that it's from organ meats. And when you have organ meats in there, you're adding so much more nutrition. I love on your website and maybe you can share with us like when you go through and you, you think about how many nutrients are in organ meats from iron and B vitamins and minerals. So even just from this sprinkle of seasoning, you're getting so much more nutrition, even protein in there.

Yeah, definitely though for pluck you're doing it more for the micronutrients. But one of the most powerful aspects of organ meats is their incredible bioavailability. Which means basically the nutrients they contain are in forms that our bodies can easily absorb and utilize. So for example you mentioned liver. It's loaded with highly bioavailable iron which specifically is heme iron that's easier for our body to absorb than the non heme iron. It's, you know, that's usually found in sadly in plant based, you know, products sources but it's crucial for energy production, immune function and overall vitality. But beyond the iron, you have things, you know, in organ meats like liver, heart and kidney, they're rich in fat soluble vitamins A, D, E and K as well as B vitamins like B12 and folate. Notice that most of these are in prenatals by the way. Yeah, so we, we really, we, we like to say that organ meats are mother nature's multivitamin. It's, it's everything you need to create life and it serves every biological part of your human body. And these are, these are key like, like cellular repair, reducing inflammation, supporting detoxification pathways.

You know. And then of course there's the synergistic things like, which I love because a lot of times you know when you're taking like B vitamins, it will say or, or you won't even really know what the vitamins you're taking are. But you'll be told like, oh, you need to eat these with food. Well that's because they're usually fat soluble vitamins or sometimes you're given an iron supplement but you're told, well you have to take this with something else. And that's because the, you know, when you, when you make a synthetic vitamin or you're making in a laboratory, you're making these vitamins, they're not necessarily synergistic nutrients, meaning that they're not usually combined with the thing that is going to help them be the most absorbable. So like vitamin A, which is retinol or at least the retinol you get from animal food products which supports like immune function, skin health and vision. But it works synergistically with vitamin D, right, to help regulate gene expression. Well, both of those are in organ meats. So that's why we say it's mother Nature's multivitamin, because it's not laboratory made, but it is, it has everything you need to get all of the things you need for your body.

It's so brilliant, James, it's really so brilliant because this, I have never seen a product like that where the, and and sometimes people, you know, like I think, think now in society we tend to be less likely to choose organ meats because you know, like we don't even really know how, how to get them. It might not even be at the store, let alone if you get it, how to cook with it. And then we're not used to the taste but the like this gives us an opportunity. But we know as a nutritionist and naturopathic doctor, yes, we're, we're always hearing about how organs like liver have so much nutrition in them. So I love that you're, you figured out a way to make it easy to get organ meats without having to go shop for them or cook for them. They're just, it's freeze dried in this powder that you can put on your food.

It is what we call micro dosing frequently because we always season our food. So as long as you keep using it, you will get the benefits over time. And how I like to, to describe it is imagine your body is a sponge and the faucet that the sponge is under is everything you're eating or life. Right. So if we drip that faucet, then every drop of water gets absorbed by that sponge. But if we open that faucet up too. Too hard, too fast. Then what happens is the water just spills into the sink. Right. It saturates the. The. The sponge, but then it can't hold it. It just relinquishes it into the sink. And that's what's happening on a D. Most of us. And that's why we say when we take, you know, pills and vitamins and whatnot, that we say, oh, you have expensive pee, because most of us just pee it right out, and our body has struggles to absorb it all. And so I am a big fan of eating your nutrients as much as you can and choosing the foods that are the most nutritious. And organ meats are, hands down, the most nutritious food on the planet. Pluck is a way to get them into your diet as easy as just salting your food. That's really. That's really what I was trying to say.

We also have the Redmond sea salt in there.

We have Redmond's in there as well. Yeah. And. And as you mentioned, everything in the season is real food. It's. There's nothing that's synthetic. There's no preservatives. You know, one thing I like to point out to people is what's the first thing whenever you buy a seasoning blend. Blend anywhere. What's the first ingredient of that seasoning blend? Salt. Right.

Yeah. Salt. Yeah.

It's always salt, probably then sugar. Yeah. And so. And usually sugar's in there, but it's usually always salt, and it's because salt is cheap. So really what you're buying when you buy a seasoning blend is you're buying salt that has some seasonings. Pluck. The first ingredient is onion. The second ingredient is organs. Third ingredient, depending on the blend, is garlic. Fourth ingredient, salt. So salts are salts down the road for us. Like, salt for us is not the first ingredient, because we want you to get the organ meat nutrition, and we're just offsetting it with the onion and all the other stuff. But what I tell people is pluck is a seasoning that has some salt. So it's a totally. That's why when you use it, it's so flavorful, because you're not just getting hit with salt salt. And most people can identify with this. Like, for example, when you eat chips, well, you taste the first four chips, but then after that, all you taste is. There's no more taste. It's just salty. Your taste buds are blown out, and now you're just chasing the texture, which is the crunch. But with Pluck. You really do just get flavor. You get an enormous amount of flavor. You get the nutrition. And what's so cool is it shows up in kids in a fantastic way. I mean, it shows up in adults this way, too. But kids are more kind of attuned to it, which is that they actually start to, a, get more adventurous, and B, you see how fervorous they are towards it. Like, they get. I've. I've been told by clients or customers I should say that their kids start crying when they run out of pluck. And I'm. And I'm like, well, that. That's interesting. That, yes, it tastes good. But I think they're crying because their bodies need it and they want it. This is their body saying, don't, like, give me more of this. Don't take it away from me. And I think that our bodies need this more than we even acknowledge. And our kids are proof of that.

And it's like, here we are talking about buying whole foods to cook at home. And this is a way to, like, add more food on top of your food.

More nutrition.

Yeah, more nutrition on top of your food, and then make it flavorful so that you also are enjoying it. And it's. And making it easy to cook at home. Because sometimes that's the hardest part. People are like, how do I get some flavor out of my food that I'm cooking at home? And I think that's a big fear. People feel like they're gonna be eating flavorless food. But pluck is a real solution in that case, because it gives flavor too.

Oh, you wanna hear something funny, Donnie? So one of the. One of the feedback we get a lot is from families that, you know, we all have those rotation meals, you know, like, oh, every other week we make the same meal for. Oh, we know exactly how. How much of it everyone's going to eat. Well, the feedback we get is. All I did differently was I used pluck that. That night for the food. And that night my family asked for seconds, and they all complimented me on the food. And the mothers, you know, texted me. Usually it's mothers. And they were like, that never happens. And I was like, yeah, well, that's what. So the umami in the organ meat, it brightens the flavors in the food. So it's. It's. Yes, pluck is good, but it's the umami. It's the umami that is. It's a unique flavor. It's. It's. It's the fifth unique flavor. So with the ones we grew up in school are salty, sweet, bitter, sour. Umami's the fifth, and it brightens the food. So to your point, if you want to get compliments on your food and you want people to believe that you are a better chef than maybe you are, just use plus Pluck.

I love that. I love that. Oh, my gosh. It's. It's. It's so. And. And I'll definitely put a link where any listeners would like to learn more about pluck or order pluck. You can order it right from the link I'll have down below because. And there's different. You have different versions. There's the original one, which is what I've been using, but there's also some different versions that I am excited to try.

Yeah, the. The Zesty garlic is really cool because it's. It's aip. So anyone out there that can't do aut auto, that's autoimmune protocol. So anyone that can't do nightshades or seeds, there are none in Zesty Garlic. And so it's. It's a really nice flavor and probably our second favorite. So the originals are bestseller. And I would say Zesty Garlic is the next. And then we have one called Spicy Mild. We might be changing the name to More Southwest, but really, it's just. It's got a really nice, almost barbecuey, kind of lightly spicy taste to it, but it's also a favorite once people try it.

It.

And then the fourth one is unique in that it's just the organ meats. So there's people out there that get tested, or maybe they're working with someone like yourself, and they're told, hey, you're. You're anemic. Like, you. You really need some to get organ meats in. In your diet. And they're like, yeah, but I don't want to eat them. I don't know how to source them. Well, great. Just. You can use pure. One teaspoon of pure is equal to two ounces of organs. So you use that. You use one teaspoon a day of pure, and then you go get tested again, and I guarantee you, you will probably not be anemic anymore. Like, you just need. It's extremely efficient organ meats. So you'll see it's very quick and how. And how your body will respond. You'll probably notice that you have higher energy right away. Like. Like, it's one of those things if you are severely depleted. Like, you have to be careful, because if you eat it, let's Say too late in the day, you might get a surge of energy. It's that powerful. It's, it's when we take, take a hundred percent organ meat and we freeze dry it it, we're left with about 21. So you lose nearly 80% in water weight. It's extremely concentrated. So that's why I'm always telling people like don't be, don't be deceived. Like even pluck the seasoning. So I've been talking about pure this in this later moment. But like even the seasoning, even though it's not 100 organ meat product, it's still very potent and it's such a common deficiency.

I so often find people who are low in iron, low in vitamin B12, B vitamins and, and, and, and sometimes it's really hard to, especially with iron. I mean sometimes it's hard to find a iron supplement. Even the iron bisglycinate which most people do okay with but sometimes they don't do so well with iron bisgycinate. And it's hard, can be a struggle to get enough iron. So I love this as another option for hey, here's a way to get iron. It's not swallowing another pill or you know, trying to chase down more iron from other sources in your diet. Just get, get this product and what's.

Cool about the pure one is that it can go, it's very neutral. Like people assume it's going to be really strong tasting. It's actually not. I, I finessed it so that it's very neutral tasting and it's actually just got a slight meaty aftertaste. But you can add it to a smoothie. For example, you, I, I know people that put it in their coffees or their hot chocolates, whatever they're eating, you know, drinking in the morning lattes or whatever you know, it's like and you don't taste it. As long as you keep the ratio down, you won't taste it. If I was putting it in a small beverage, I would say you know, half a teaspoon. If I was putting it in a smoothie, I would do a teaspoon and then you're done for the day. But I promise you it, it's very effective. Like organ meats. As I mentioned earlier, the most nutritious, nutrient dense food on the planet. So you do not want to underestimate them. You, you don't need as much as you think a day and anyone that like one thing that a lot of people don't connect but for Example people, you hear a lot about the racing heart, you know, or the, you know, afib, those kind of things, sometimes those are actually vitamin deficiencies. But people, the doctors don't know to look for that so they just immediately go towards, you know, pharmaceutical solutions. But I would, you know, I would highly recommend people work with someone like yourself who's actually looking at what, testing and like looking at what is your nutrient balance going, what's going on with your nutrients.

Because blood pressure, people assume blood pressure is about salt, but sometimes it's that we need, need sea salt instead of regular kosher salt. Like with the sea salt then you're getting all the minerals and sometimes that actually lowers your blood pressure from having it. So it's so true. And, and I was going to say that I, I completely could see that. You know, you add some like, say something like pluck to your, your meals in your diet and likely you're gonna decrease your sugar cravings because absolutely happens is when we have more nutrients and nutrition, we're, we're craving sugar less because the sugar craving was actually your body trying to get more nutrients. You know, so sometimes I retrain myself if I'm craving sugar, I think I probably actually need protein and nutrition versus just something sweet. And once you realize that and you start choosing right, choosing protein, choosing these nutrients, choosing the organ meats, all of a sudden then you're like, like I completely forgot about the sugar. I didn't even, I don't even care about that anymore.

Absolutely. It's amazing. We don't realize how many of these nagging health issues that we have on a daily basis could be solved by just eating differently and focusing on nutrient dense foods.

Hands down. But I will also say this is, I am not in the business of making people's lives harder. I believe that we already are living in a very stressed out state. I believe modern society is completely overwhelming. And I think that one of the things we, we can start to pull back from is, is like, and at least this is my hope is that if you're using something like pluck, where it's a real food and you're getting nutrient dense, you know, nutrition from that, then my hope is that it's, it's because we're, you're seasoning your food, there's no new habit. So we're not adding a health modality that you have to stress out about. And like make sure you extend your day to get in that, that you know, hour long walk or you're, or you're, that Shake or whatever that thing that you think is gross or whatever it is, it's like. No, no, I'm just saying when you go to eat, you already salt your food. Just add this to it too, and you're done. So there's just, there's something to that. When something is easy, it's delicious. It relieves that kind of conscious stress around. Am I doing it right? What do I have to do? I don't feel good. You know, it's just. And you put it on autopilot.

It.

It's just like, nope, just. Just season your food and then just reap the reward. That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for person. I just, I'm looking for real nutrient dense and easy.

And of course, we're getting the private chef chef in our own kitchen. You know, this is one way to get the private chef in your kitchen is, is get the chef James into your kitchen through pluck. I love it.

That is true. I don't, I don't usually talk about like that, but you're right. It's like how these flavors are absolutely. I, I designed them myself. This is not like some outsourced.

Formula or recipe. I designed them myself and I use it. I, my family uses pluck every day for the last. Since I created it four years ago.

Amazing. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for coming to share all of this with us today. James is. I'm. I know this is to going to be such a resource for everyone and all of this that we talked about from, from how to shop for, you know, products at the store and look at ingredients and what not to get, as well as how to think about cooking at home and choosing healthier ingredients and then how to add nutrient dense seasoning like flock to your food. So you're. You're getting all of the good stuff into your body so your body can. Can function at its best and do its best healing work. So anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up?

Well, just please find us at our site, eatpluck.com you'll be able to use Doc Donnie's link and, and I would just say you could find us on socials at Eat Pluck and I'm at Chef Jamesbury. And please, you know, when you give it a try, let us know how you like it. Reach out. We are a small company who, who love feedback and, and it won't get lost. Like we really do care. We're on that mission to help people eat whole animal and get nutritious real food into their diets as easy and deliciously as possible. So if that is something you need, please reach out and let us know how we can help you.

Oh thank you Chef James. I love that I'm gonna call you Chef James now. I love that. Thanks again so much for joining us. Thanks everyone for listening in and let us know your feedback here as well. We love to hear from you. And if you haven't already subscribed to How Humans Heal, I welcome you to subscribe and join us for the next episode. Thanks again everyone. I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to How Humans Heal. If you liked this episode, leave a rating and a review. And for more resources, visit drdani.com.