#61 Healing as a Spiritual Journey with Dr. Serena Goldstein

The information provided in this podcast is educational and not intended to diagnose or treat medical conditions. Dr. Donnie Wilson struggled for decades to solve her numerous health issues and heal her body. But with focused determination, she healed herself. And in doing so, she discovered the Dr. Donnie stress recovery Protocol. On this show, you're going to hear from doctors, nutritionists, and Experts along with Dr. Donnie, who will give practical advice and wisdom to help heal your body. This is how humans heal.

Welcome. I get to introduce you to Dr. Serena Goldstein today. She is a colleague of mine, a naturopathic doctor, and we've known each other, I think, even since she was a student in naturopathic medical school. And I was practicing because she's from New York and I live in New York. And so we've known each other for quite a few years. And now she's a practicing naturopathic doctor, actually in California. And I'm just really excited to share her wisdom with you because she has a lot of not only experience as a naturopathic doctor, but also as from her own personal health experience, listening to her body, listening to the messages that she's received about navigating her life and her health. And so thank you so much for joining me today, Serena, I'm so glad to have this conversation with you.

Same here. Thank you so much for having me. And so I realized, I think it was from 2010.

Oh, is that one of us?

Yeah, it was with one of our other colleagues and. Or I don't remember. It was like one of you was running late and then told me to just, oh, pop into the other one's room. They won't mind.

Preceptor. You were preceptor. Yeah, yeah.

Back in days when I was preceptoring you guys. And this is. Yeah, you had the practice in Long Island. I remember coming out to Connecticut with you to one of the days and then also in New York City. So in that blip of when you talked about listening to your body, the other piece, that also, it helped me realize it's also listening to that life path. Like, what are the patterns? And the funny thing is, because I am someone where I always admired, where you had the writing, the speaking, the supplements, like, you're always doing a lot of different things. You were the types of doctors I always gravitated to. Of course, it makes sense that I'm also like, I have a whole press page on my website, but without really realizing it at the time. Yes, there's. We'll talk listening to the body, but there's also listening to the universe. Like, who do you gravitate to?

And just notice. Yeah, tell us. Tell us a little more about what brought you to become an naturopathic doctor and to, you know, to do what you're doing at this point.

Yeah, yeah. So I would say the journey started, I could say, way back when, to those early days of 3, 4 years old, staring at the sky, wondering about the meaning of life. Like, oh, there's more out there, but, you know, whatever. Like, fast forward grade school. I was a competitive gymnast. Played the trombone. You know, all those accomplishments. And then sophomore year of high school, I entered my elbow in gymnastics, and that meant no gymnastics, no trombone. And I sank into this depression. But that wasn't me at the core.

I was like, wait, I. I don't.

Want to feel like this. So I go to the library and I start reading young Erickson and Freud to figure out what was going on.

Look at you. Wow. You're just like, let me figure this out.

Exactly. And it's that same M.O. that I realized, wait, I've always had. Because from there, it was when I got bogged down with information that I was like, oh, I think I need help. There were a few more injuries and other things that year, but when I came into my junior year, I wound up finding a therapist who I loved, and she was a PhD in psychology. So I was like, oh, I want to give back the same healing that she gave to me. And that started my journey as a healer.

There aren't really any medical people in my family, so it was just that place of. Well, I don't know. I thought I'd Being an entrepreneur because my dad was. And he was really happy. So, okay, this seems legit. Like, why not? And so I go to college, and I started as a psychology major and then a Japanese minor because I finished with three honors when I was in Japanese. And you can hear my cat giving a testimony.

Oh, that's the cat making the same.

Oh, yes. Oh, he's very.

This is so interesting because I think that a lot of people don't realize that naturopathic medicine involves a lot of psychology. And, like, I think where you're going with your story is you started from a psychology interest and major, and you ended up going into naturopathic medicine and now really integrating psychology into your practice, which is. I like to really point that out because a lot of times as naturopathic doctors, we end up focusing on the diet and the nutrients and the herbs and all the amazing things we can do. But we also have additional training in psychology and counseling people about not only their health, but their health issues. And I think that's a really important aspect that sometimes even, you know, even with me practicing for over 21 years, sometimes my patients aren't aware that I have that.

In my skills, in my toolbox, so to speak.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so you just brought up such an interesting point because that was exactly what drew me to naturopathic medicine. Because when Japanese didn't work out, a friend said, well, why don't you go pre med? You could do more for people. So that's why I referenced that little girl that was like, oh, there's more in the world, more out there and conventional school seem too rigid. And then a month later, the teacher in the learning community took us to the naturopathic school. And you're right, it was like, wait, I learned conventional natural medicine and I get to use all my psychology to the point that what you were saying too was a lot of my journey was with weight and hormones and the roller coaster of weight loss and weight gain and the last few pounds, and then feeling like I have to be perfect if I'm going to preach. Because I just had to, because you're the doctor, you're supposed to fix yourself and know everything and look a certain way when really life is just about the journey and it's our big self expression. So when I too had the patience with the, well, why can't we lose the last few pounds? Why can't, like, why are we doing cleanses and still nothing is sticking? I had to go back with myself and say, wait a second, this is not just the course or two of psychology, because we did, you know, a little bit of course in medical school. But the truth is, this wasn't even in my degree, a lot of it. This was going deeper because we're also asking people to break habits. So where do habits come from? Okay, from growing up. Who did we grow up around? Society? Our parents? Okay, let's talk these words called generational trauma and karma. What about who we were in our past lives? Like there's all this that's also locked in this intuition.

All this stuff that we've been told that it was like, it's now this psychology. Then of course, you could add in boundaries and speaking up for yourself and all of that that's now going beyond. You know, I feel so much of what I was even taught in my degree. But you're getting to that deep soul wisdom and the intuition.

Yeah. And it's and what you're saying is that it's like we might be searching for answers on a physical level, whether it's safe from. Even from a physical injury. And you think, oh, it's just because of the injury that I have this pain. But when you really look into it, there's much more meaning underneath that we often might miss or dismiss just because we think, oh, that just happened as an accident. Or. But why were you. You know, then you start to ask, well, why were you in the. Doing the gymnastics to begin with and pushing yourself hard and leading yourself to be susceptible to the injury? Right. Or other health issues? Like you mentioned weight gain. And a lot of people do struggle with body image and the way their body looks to them. And it's often. It's not just about restricting your diet and exercising. Right. It's about, hey, let me really understand what my body is trying to say to me and what my past stress exposure and life experience has. Why has it led to this point of my body showing up in this way? And it takes courage, I think, to be willing to look at these things. Right.

Oh, my God. You know, it's. And it's so funny you say that too, because it's like the breakdowns are just as important as the breakthroughs, but it's also surrendering that there's no final point. Because it's funny. Like, I have, you know, I've had people say to me too, well, I don't want to get too thin or. But maybe if I could just look like this, or, like, there's all these. There's still, like, there's still that bit of control. And ironically, the universe doesn't understand that.

It doesn't even exist there.

Yeah, it doesn't understand negative. So actually, you're probably stopping yourself at this point. But, okay, we'll do a little work around that. You know, bring a lot into awareness, create the safe space and so forth. So, yeah, it doesn't understand negatives and the change from within, like that alignment, then it means whatever decision you make comes out of alignment. It's less cerebral. It's as, oh, my God, that was it, too. How many food plans would I give patients? And no one would do their homework. So then I'm like, wait, I'm going to lose my whole practice if I start belittling people. That's not really who I am.

I know it's not going to work. Yes, no. But that does happen sometimes for people in the medical community. They get judged or they judge themselves for not following A certain diet or caloric restrictions and then it just perpetuates the negative self talk. Right. And the negative just perpetuates the health issues. And we can see that because we see the patterns with working with so many patients. We go, oh, I see that same pattern again where it's just a certain. If there's conditionality even in the treatment plan, it's going to work against the person. We have to find a way to be this unconditional support and show them how to be unconditional support for themselves. And that's where some, that's where they can find some of this. I love how you're, you're pointing at what I think of as quantum physics too. I think. And it's, I'm excited because this is not something I get to talk about very often. And if anyone listening hasn't read or gone into learning about quantum physics before, I definitely encourage you to, to learn more about it and understanding what we know beyond kind of like standard physics and standard understanding of ourselves in our universe and to be able to realize that a lot of things we as humans have kind of create as constructs, even just the construct of time. Right. Like what time is it? How long does this take? What time is something supposed to happen? How long is it supposed to take? These are all things that we, they're basically like illusions that we create to try to understand our world and the world around us. But really in, in a quantum physics level which is very energetic and expansive, there is no, there's no time. And so you can find yourself the more and more you can become aware of it, then you can find yourself looking thing, looking at things differently because you realize, oh, there's certain things that we just created as almost an illusion to try to make ourselves feel better. But it actually doesn't help us feel better because it takes us further from the truth of energetic or energetic beings in an energetic universe interacting with each other and understanding ourselves and each other better.

Yeah, yeah. To all of that.

And also too. And yet it's funny because you also made me flashback to when I was taking physics as, you know, like a pre med prerequisite. And I was like, yeah, there was no talk of any of this like in that physics class. But yet a lot of what I share too is before things materialized into the physical form, we have our mental body, you know, like there's, you know, different or fields because we really are energy in this 3D form which is very dense. But we have, yeah, this mental emotional field is Etheric. So like even more energy kind of coming around us and then the Orac and the astral. So it's like this is where certain dream states, you know, take place. Or even dreams could be clues to like, wait, what do we need to do next? What really, what is the next issue to take care of? So yeah, there's all these different energy states that. So we can change some of them on the day to day, you know, which is our mental, emotional. Even if we have to sit with our stuff too for a bit. Because I think that's important to give people permission.

Once we realize how often we essentially distract ourselves, right. We're distracted with having to work and having to say, be a parent or even take care of our animals and take care of task lists and emails and voicemails and. Right. These are just distracting us from really being able to just be in the moment, be with ourselves. And that's sometimes why we miss that information. In some ways I think we want to distract ourselves from the information. You know, sometimes we think we don't want to know and so we stay busy in order to avoid that. I mean, I know that happened to me also. I mean, I have. I also, by the way, was a gymnast for a lot of my childhood and through to college and then I was in dancing, competitive dance. And so you and I have that in common. That, you know, in some ways I'm so appreciative because I really learned from all of that, that how important physical activity is for us as humans with our human nervous system, we need some physical activity. But we also, if we do too much, then that can become a stress. So it's a matter of how do we find that amount that's helpful and stress reducing and not overdoing it at the same time realizing that over time in history, humans have really benefited from exposure to, let's say, whether it's gymnastics or dance or music or movement of some form, there's the patterns that our bodies really benefit from being exposed to. But again, it's about how to find the right amount and the right setting for you.

Then I went on to start having migraines. As I think about it, actually, the migraines pretty much started when I stopped some of the dance and gymnastics. Then I started getting the migraines. And these migraines were.

I think now when I look back at it, and I realized this to some degree when I was in the midst of the migraines, I realized that the migraines was what caused me to stop. You Know when I would get a migraine and I was in so much pain and I would even be vomiting, I couldn't do anything else. So I had to set aside my to do list and just be until the migraine ended. In some ways, I finally realized that was my body telling me it needed a break. It needed me to do nothing but sit in bed for however many hours until it could calm down and recover from everything I was asking it to do on a usual day. The migraines were really a message of, hey, Donna, you need to be human and take a break for a minute. Once I really started to recognize that message and give myself those breaks before the migraine happened, then there was no longer need for the migraine. And so to realize that sometimes our bodies give us physical symptoms as a message of, hey, I'm overwhelmed in here. The hormones, the neurotransmitters, the vagal nerve, the adrenal system is just hitting overwhelm. Because we so often expect ourselves to be basically superheroes. You know, we're supposed to be able to do everything all the time and not need a break and. Right. And eventually our bodies tell us one way or another that that's not the case. We. We do need to give a break and have a chance to connect with ourselves.

Yeah. And that's exactly where. I can't remember if I mentioned it here, right as we were chatting right before, was that, yeah, when our body or the universe, however you want, literally, no, you need to step back. And it's funny because I also liken that to weight gain, because weight is also a metaphor for protection, for shielding, for any sort of insulation. And, you know, it's funny, I didn't always like the word weight. I didn't really want to talk about it because then there's a whole body positivity movement that, oh, we should always love ourselves, but then there's a place of weight. What if we do want to lose weight? But that's also the metaphor of, like, what are we willing to let go of? So we further fill that up in coming back home to ourselves, like, because I realized there have been times that, yeah, my weights fluctuated a little bit. But the difference now is my reaction. If I notice I'm up a few pounds, it's like, all right, let me stop and think. Okay, sure, I can go through diet, lifestyle and all that, but on the deeper level, what were the behaviors behind it? What thoughts were coming up that maybe were triggering some of those cravings or, you know, whether or mindless Eating whatever it is. Yeah, same like I had an underlying eating disorder for probably about 15 years. And so all these different pieces of the balance really comes from within. Yes, we could take all the supplements, we could do all the meditations, but it's like there's a moment where that flip kind of switches where we just get it and then it becomes practicing and staying true to that aha. Moment of like oh wait a second, I don't want to feel like this anymore. Yes, my weight may go up and down. And please, if you're female, as I joke like with the especially like premenopausal women, like we have four hormones and flux at any given time.

Okay. Trust me. But that's also then the dedication to yourself, both in loving yourself at every step of the way and to your point too of just when these things do come up in psychology we have at least seven different defense mechanisms which at the end of the day our body just wants to keep us safe. So if we start to kick that sand of like wait, where did this thought come from? Wait, why is this happening? Our body, our nervous system, our third eye. Yeah, I got intuition. It's not having it, it's.

So yeah, we get those defense mechanisms. This is where we could blame others or like, or blame something else or a situation or deflect it just like no, I'm just put it on you instead or just, or just stuff it really far down. And so we have all these ways of trying to protect us. And I think that's important to note too is that one of the hardest things is to really sit with. Yeah, we may not always know what event is going to happen or predict it. And sometimes we do. So called have to learn by trial and error.

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Absolutely. And it's like just being patient with yourself through that, you know, like, because we sometimes think, oh, healing is right, it's supposed to be just all forward, all positive overnight or something. But really, no, it's not. It's, it's a, it's a process where you're, you're having to learn your body and what it needs. And that may be a process of. Let me try this. Okay, try that out. Well, some of it maybe was helpful, some of it wasn't. Let me try another thing. And it's this, right? It's this moving forward and back a little bit, forward and back a little bit on it. And just knowing that that's the normal and okay process, that's actually a good thing to experience that, you know. I love how you're saying that, the trial and error because I think it allows us the acceptance of ourselves and it allows us to have patience with ourselves. Because if we're, if there's that message inside you that's saying, oh, I must have done something wrong or I'm not doing it right or this always, this doesn't work for me or these kind of messages, it just is going to set you back. And so learning to notice those messages and shift it and say, actually I'm in the learning process and here's the things that I have learned and that are going well and I can keep my body's. The thing I love is when patients start to realize that their body is giving them messages. And like you point out, it's not just their body, it's a. Sometimes it's on an energetic level or maybe coming from a spiritual guide or from some other energetic guide, but it's giving you information to help you move forward. Because your healer, your naturopathic doctor, your practitioner may not have that information. Hopefully your practitioner is helping you get in touch with your own inner guides in the process. Because then really to me, the optimal for the people I work with and the patients I have is I would love for them to learn their bodies more, learn what does their body need at this moment and what have they learned through this process that they can keep coming back to those tools in the future as things come up, they become more able to understand themselves and be able to self regulate and not be dependent on a practitioner or someone else. I mean, sometimes we, it's, I think you said earlier, you know, being able to ask for Help and have a guide and have someone help you, but you want to have that guide without becoming dependent on them. You want to write, you want to learn your own way of helping yourself, but also having another person to help you when you need it.

Yeah, yeah, there's that difference of, like, having that conversation versus a tell me what to do. I mean, I can get it, you know, like a little bit in the beginning, but then it's also like, well, let me just make sure you understand, you know, and all of that. What I do see, too, is, you know, like, the different sides of the body. Like, if there's something on the left side, it's usually a divine feminine or like some kind of female, I think just female.

In your family or friends or partners or anything along those lines. The right side is divine masculine. So this is where, like, if someone has any pains or cramps or, you know, whatever it is on either side of their body. My next question is, oh, so what's, you know, how are you with your parents, your partner, any friend, any issue going on or issue coming up? You know, say, we've worked a bit on the mental emotion. Oh, yeah, you know, I just got in a fight. It's like, okay, you need to go and talk that out.

So that's like kind of one of those little clues of, yeah, really looking at the spiritual side of things. Because maybe what's happening physically isn't so much a risk factor from the physical side, as I joke. Like, well, it's beyond the Merck manual, that big, thick blue book with all these physical risk factors. And here's your ICD10 code, and here's the test that we're going to do. And then here's your drug. We are so much more than a physical body. And yeah, when our symptoms talk to us on that mental emotional sphere, that's one side. The other piece I like to look at, too, are chakras. Those are some of the deeper meanings of like, okay, where along the body are we looking at now? It's a digestion, metaphorical. Okay, what are you not digesting in life? And then where is it appearing in your life? Is there an issue at work? We can go through all these topics that really there is such a beautiful alignment to just how our health is interacting with the universe.

Well, and to realize that a lot of these systems of medicine you're talking about, even say the chakra system or energetic healing, is dated back, way back before Western conventional medicine in pharmaceuticals and our standard medical approach, which, of course, we need and sometimes need to access surgical care or pharmaceuticals. So we're not saying those. You don't ever need those. But we're saying, hey, sometimes it's worth looking at what else could be going on here besides just what's immediately obvious to us on a. Kind of. On a. What we can see or what we can understand on a 3D level. What can we. We want to look at it on this. These other levels that really came back in history, like the. The chakra system that you're referring to. Let's tell people a little bit more about that. It's a. And I'm really curious about too, about it because it's looking at these energetic places in the body. But what we also, if we think about it, they also coincide with our autonomic nervous system and the interconnectedness of the different systems in our body, which, when you're going to different specialists in the medical field, it can seem like our body's supposed to be a bunch of different parts. Right. There's a digestion and then there's the nervous system, and then there's the hormones, and then there's the skin and then there's the ovaries and uterus. You know, it's like all separateness. But actually, really our bodies are not separate at all. It's all interconnected, all these different. All the nervous system is communicating with the immune system and the. And the hormones and, you know, in the. So it's like we just really need to understand there's all this interconnectedness. And that's one thing about, say, the chakras and understanding the autonomic nervous system is to really realize that it's. That it's an interconnected system and it's not. It's complex and yet not overwhelmingly complex. Sometimes when we understand the complexity, it actually becomes more simple in some way. Right.

Like, oh, it's so funny as you say this because. Yes, as much as I, oh, my God, I feed off of just studying all the ancient medicine. I mean, even Hippocrates, new astrology and astronomy and philosophy. Like doctors thousands of years ago were freaking brilliant. The math to the philosophy. And then I'm thinking, wait, we, you know, we just go to medical school and learn science. I mean, I know that's a very reductionistic. But it just maybe had.

They had some more knowledge. They had.

And the way they synthesize it to understand the body or actually what was. Yes. Back in college when I did a summer in Ecuador and I was going around with the shaman and it's like even there, where yes. You know, they take ayahuasca to, you know, be a healing modality and just see, okay, what's really going on with the person. But it's saying, oh, you're have, you have vivid dreams, you're hearing voices. All right, great, let's explore more of that. You know, even to the place of like when we were talking a bit with the emotions, if we're having those huge emotional breakdowns, chances are there was either a generational issue that you're breaking or something around your past lives where like when it's that pronounced. So it's another way of saying, hey, it's not just you. Especially in this society where you know, like put your emotions to the side or like don't really bother people with it. So I guess circling back and yeah, into the chakra system. So yeah, we have the seven energetic centers. We have, we also have from the base of our spine to the top of our head, then one right above our head and one right below that base. Then we also have energy centers throughout our body. So there's the main seven, then there's least 113 ancient India. You know, it's kind of coming from there, these ancient systems. But what's correlating. And they have found science where there's actually literal energy type centers where if they're off, they can manifest in physical dis ease. They are correlated with mental, emotional and then of course spiritual reasons as well. But the funny thing is it's not just one shock or being out of balance like what you were saying or not just one organ. You're looking at, you're looking at the whole system, you know, how things are lining up, how things are working together. So it's real, it's, it's like a confirmation I find in many ways. Yeah, usually people are asking that why? Like I was always after that why too. So yeah, here's just another like no, we need to focus on this too.

Yeah, it's almost like a relief to have sometimes to realize, yeah, our bodies are interconnected and these systems of medicine from other parts of the world and other parts of history can really teach us aspects, you know, like being able to integrate that in and to recognize it on One of my favorites of the chakras to talk about is the heart chakra because it's so, you know, it's so interesting to think about that. We know the vagal nerve, right. The vagal nerve is the longest nerve and it, and it actually connects. It's one. It's what communicates this parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system. So whether we're in that fight, flight and survival mode, or we're in this, like, rest and digest and heal and recover mode. And the vagal nerve communicates with the digestion, so we hear about it a lot with the digestion, but it also communicates with the heart. And what we call the heart also makes a hormone called oxytocin, which is the hormone of love and bonding. Isn't that so amazing? To realize that here we use even the symbol, the emoji of a heart.

Is communicating love, like the hormone oxytocin. But it also comes from our heart, which is our heartbeat, and our heart at our heart chakra. When we have sometimes on an energetic or spiritual, emotional level, struggles with love and connection, it can be stemming from that chakra needing attention, needing more coherence. What we call coherence. Coherence is. Think of it like a nice balanced signal. You know, something like if you hear a sound that's very nice and balanced, or you see a wave that's nice and coherent, that's what our bodies and our nervous systems respond best to. When something's incoherent, it's. It would be kind of jagged, and it makes really jagged shapes and jagged experiences, and that. That would be incoherent. And so a lot of times what we're doing, when we recognize or we realize that there's issues on any of these chakra systems, for example, it's about how do we create more coherence, how do we help that energy center function in a more balanced way? And it actually creates more coherent energy signals. And we can actually measure it, for example, with like, heart rate variability.

Right. Or the heart math.

Yeah. We can actually see these patterns of coherence. Or sometimes I love this, that I've seen sometimes with meditation, where you can actually see more visual coherence. And they can definitely measure coherence in the heart rate. And it's just amazing. We start to go, oh, my gosh, these things are not by accident. And it really can start to teach us that we're just human. First of all, we're humans living on Earth, and we have this nervous system and amazing bodies. And our bodies are responsive to our environment, but also our bodies need us to provide them the opportunity to rebalance and be coherent in all these different areas. Otherwise, that's when different health issues develop. So it's like just realizing what does our body need in order to help maintain that balance and health.

Yes. And as you say that, what came up was it's that shift, as, you know, as that competitive athlete or just the competition in general, what it takes to even shift from comparing yourself to others, comparing yourself to how you were just everything on that side. Say, wait a second, what if that's not meant for my body? And it's not good or bad, it's just not. And realizing that you are in this physical vessel. Okay, so then what do I need to nourish it? Not compared to someone else. Not compared to the stuff I grew up with. Knock.

But in the present and having that view of health, it's just so different than, you know, what we were taught conditions, you know, even more than the quick fix, which I remember the moment I found out about naturopathic medicine when I was 19. The first words out of my mouth were, I got to tell everyone there's no magic pill.

I just knew, like, it was just more because there's so much. And. And isn't that fun, too, to know that there's so much that we can nourish ourselves with instead of just, okay, this one thing and, you know, attention diverts somewhere else? So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it's. It's. It's like we. Then we're so detached from our body and our experience. Right. Like so often to kind of live in your. As you were kind of saying earlier, live in our mind or live in our. Live in this abstract world where we do a lot of stuff, but really we're not in connection with, you know, kind of my head is connected to my body, and my body is giving signals to my back and forth to my. My head or my nervous system and to just then go, oh, my gosh, wow. I'm an interconnected being in this interconnected space with other humans and other living things. And it's a whole different awareness for ourselves in our lives. And I think in some ways it can also help us to be more accepting of life and death. Right. Because otherwise we're constantly in this fear state of fear of death or fear of what happens after death. And when we can be more present in our lives and with ourselves, then that means we're going to be more present with whatever experience happens next. Whether that's Right. Whether that's death and whatever happens after that.

Yeah. And that's exactly why my logo now is the Phoenix Rising.

Oh, awesome.

Yeah. So what was happening was when I was practicing in New York City for.

About six, six and a half years, I. Yes. I was Branded as weight and hormones. It's how I branded myself. It's how everyone knew me. But I also knew that we were always more than our diagnosis. And as we talk a lot about emotions, I began realizing, of course, first with myself and then, you know, as people would share with patients, whomever was that. We all get these aha moments, but it's how we respond sometimes we push them to the side if we may not be ready to deal with them or just we don't even see it. And that's okay. That could be someone's life path. But then there's others who may look at a moment. And that was. It was a few years ago when I started having a number of these, like, wait a second, why is this happening? Why. Why do I feel like I need to be serving more and on a deeper level, because I also couldn't have had all these conversations that we're having. You don't say, back when I was preceptor in you, or even not too long ago, so to speak. But it was realizing that we have ego deaths. And with that, that's also. Yes, then coming into the physical death. But at the same time, when we're at that place, no one's really griping about their health. Everyone just wants to know that they made someone happy in the world and they did some good. And isn't what we really what we want for ourselves? So these are like these ego deaths, letting us know that we're safe. And then step by step, it's like, oh, then when you're coming into the physical, this is where we read so much, I believe, about people saying, I'm ready to go.

They're just comfortable with it. It's okay.

They found peace with the. With their process and with their. With basically like, here's what's in this present moment. I'm not, you know, it's so much a time. We're either, you know, living in the sort of the future, anxiety about the future, or living in the past and, you know, depression or negativity about the past. But how do we get into that present moment and go, whatever it is, it's okay. And. And I can. I can get through it, and I can. Yeah, I'm. I'm loved and protected just because I am.

And even that statement, in and of itself, and then that too, it kind of transcends what it means to, you know, even the meaning of, like, health and disease, rather than where I've seen where you could take disease and hyphenate, it like, no, actually like ease. But it's just like dis, you know, you're just like off to the side, you know, cutting to get you back on track, so to speak. Yeah. So it really, I think this redefining especially what health, wellness, life purpose is, that too innately lowers the stress response.

Mm. Really, it really does. I. I don't know if you know this, but I just recently spent. Went to Peru and I spent a couple weeks in Peru and Yeah. Working with a shaman similar to what you described. Oh, great.

Yeah.

And it really, what I really was so impressed by too was to learn a lot about Incan culture and the Incans, not only did they also study astrology, but they really were focused on understanding self and purpose and connection in the universe. And that to me was really powerful to understand that that's what they were thinking about and striving for the Incans and you know, that's. It can be a real lesson to us now is like how can we come back to that self awareness and feeling that we understand ourselves and our purpose and our connection with others and in the universe. Pretty powerful.

Oh, definitely. And it's funny. Yes. When I was in Ecuador as well, I remember like going to their pharmacy and it was all natural medicine. Pretty much had to pull so called teeth from a baby to like even.

Find an over the counter and herbs and teas and. Right. As medicine. Yes. Yeah.

Imagine having bugs at their farmer's market.

Not just because they were there. Bubblegus. You could actually use them as food. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Great protein. We had some indigenous meals there, but no, but it's true. It's like that's sad. And that's where I was like, oh my God. To be able to explore and to realize like, yeah, we were put on this earth. Earth gives us what we need. And it's like as we connect to ourselves, then as others help reflect. Okay. Like where are we in the world? But then on the larger scale there's nature and the universe and yeah. How important that is. I said at the end of the day we all just want to know that we made some sort of difference in the world.

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much, Serena. This has really been joy to talk with you. How can people going to put in the notes but if you don't mind just sharing. How can people find you and get in touch with you if they'd like to just find out more and perhaps work with you to help on some of these levels?

Of course, say the easiest way to reach me is my website. So that's DrSerinaGoldstein.com I do offer complimentary 20 minute phone calls. You have my social media there, so that's a really easy way. Just kind of your one stop shop.

Oh, very good, very good. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh.

I miss getting to connect with you. So we should stay in touch more.

Yes, definitely. I know I say I've loved seeing you on social media as well. I know we both do a lot there and it was like mine. So this was just an easy.

Oh good. I'm so glad. I'm glad and thank you for sharing. I think this is. This really will be helpful for people who are especially who may be feeling like they're struggling on their path to wellness and maybe just opening up some other little possibilities or thoughts or potential areas to explore that maybe you hadn't explored before. And to feel, to know that it's not strange. This is something that many, many people also have over not only now but back in time have explored these different ways of understanding ourselves and looking at things because there's a good reason. It can really bring a lot of insight and shifts on. Sometimes it's a level that you don't. People. Other people don't even. Can't even see. It's this internal shift within you just based on understanding yourself and your. And your purpose in life better. All of a sudden little shifts start happening and it's so exciting, right? It's. So to be able to help people do that is. I know it's rewarding for me and I'm. And I'm sure it's rewarding for you.

Too to be able. Yeah, that was a great summary. And that's where I was thinking too of like you can always question.

You know, if something doesn't feel right. It's not. You just find the right person or ask your. Or go within. Ask yourself.

There you go, right? There you go. Go within and go to your. Yeah, whatever. Because I think sometimes people don't. Don't really realize they can have a. Maybe even a spiritual guide. Maybe it's someone who you. Who's been important to you in your life, who maybe even has passed on, isn't here anymore or.

However your religion might be could help you to connect on that level of just understanding or like you and I think you and I have in common that we like to travel and connect with other people around the world because sometimes that helps us to just ignite that inner wisdom. But you can do it from home too, right? You can do it from listening to music or just even being quiet. Being in silence is sometimes the best way to listen within. Yeah.

Yeah. From the silence to the music. Or sometimes I'll share, like, go to your hobbies. Sometimes. That's pretty telling. It's really like whenever you can get lost in the moment, that's. That's going to be pretty telling. It's like, okay, go find your zone. And then if there was no judgment, what comes up? Which is another big, like, how can we say whatever we need to ourselves without censoring it?

Oh, I love that. What a great message for ending with is just, yeah, just set aside the judgment, have that unconditional acceptance and then see what comes to you.

Love it.

Yes. All right.

Well, thank you again and we'll talk more soon.

Yes, that would be great.

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