Closing the Information Gap in Women’s Healthcare

Hi and welcome to How Humans Heal. I'm Dr. Doni Wilson, and in today's episode, I have with me Shivon Sarna. She is a bestselling author of Healing SIBO. She's also a TV host and a summit producer, including the Women's Health Rescue Summit. And so I am so excited to have her here with us today to talk about the importance of women's health and all of the speakers who are going to be at her summit to help bring more awareness to what's possible in women's health. Thank you so much for being here today, Siobhan.

Thank you, Dr. Wilson. Listen, your work with HPV has inspired so many women to take control of their health, so obviously I had to have you in the summit because there's just like— this is part of the reason why I do it— secret information that's not mainstream, but they can totally change the trajectory of a woman's health. I really love having conversations with people that aren't taking place in the typical doctor's appointment, and people aren't talking about HPV the way they should be. Sorry, but it's true. So thank you very much for all your work, and this summit is very near and dear to my heart. So last year I did the Women's Summit on Menopause, the New Science and Wisdom of Menopause, and it was a huge hit, and I loved doing it. It really was inspired by my mother and how she didn't have that information. And then I started talking to so many women who were like, my daughter needs information. What about this? Perimenopause. Um, I'm very into biological dentistry, organic ways to support your vision, your eyes, hair growth, you know, the usual. But again, who's talking about that in your typical doctor's appointment or only very small niches? And so I decided to do the Women's Health Rescue Summit as sort of the pendulum, like, coming back from the Menopause Summit. I wanted to sweep up a variety of other topics to help with the underserved population of women needing health support. The research has been total crap. That's not true. It's getting so much better, but it hasn't been on par with the finances and the studies for the rest of the planet. So I just wanted to get that information out. And every single presentation, Doni, as you know, is supported by at least 3 studies and, and clinical pearls. Because just because there is not a clinical study for something doesn't mean that it doesn't work. So I wanted all the speakers to bring the best of both.

I mean, it makes sense to me that if you're a woman, then you're definitely going to want to listen to this. Even for me, looking at all of the speakers included, And I can say that because I know most all of the speakers in the Women's Rescue Summit, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I talked to each one of them individually. I'm friends with many of them, and I know how much they help people and how much they have to share. So it's so beautiful for people to be able to just come and learn from all of these experts in one place. And not only that, but like you're saying, we need this for women's health. I mean, the thing is, is that like you're saying, that In, in the standard medical approach, women often don't get enough information, whether it's related to fertility, whether it's related to infections or abnormal Pap smears, whether it's related to perimenopause, whether it's related to fertility.

You know, it's like all of these things, disease, on and on, on and on.

And then you just— we're just like— and I think more and more women are waking up to the fact that we're like, wait a minute, that's not okay with me anymore. It's not okay with me for the doctor to just say, oh, it's your your blood work's all normal, or you're just getting older. This is what the women hear all the time.

You know, the whole wait and see approach too. When I think about you and HPV and gynecological visits, and there's like, do you want a Pap smear? Like, now the new standard is that you don't have to have one every year. I'm like, I'm getting one every year. Okay. Like, I don't want to have to be surprised in 2 years and then look back and go, 'You know, I really wish I had done that.' Like, what? What? Oh, well then, we're not done. Don't get me started. Um, the thing is, is that I am actually pro-practitioner. I am so pro-practitioner. I'm not like, 'Oh, all doctors are bad.' That's not me. I'm like, 'Yes, there are people that know, and I want to connect you with that person.' When I had SIBO, I went to starting at 5 years old, and then in 2015 when I finally had a name for it after asking, you know, so many practitioners and spending tens of thousands of dollars trying to figure out what it was, I never thought, no one knows about this. I thought, I know someone knows about this and I'm gonna go find them. And then that's exactly what I did. Now, that's what I've done now, 12 summits later. Biological dentistry, liver, gallbladder, fascia, lymph, um, SIBO, IBS, microbiome. These are some of the hot topics. And when I can connect those experts with people who are suffering every single day and getting dissatisfied with the results that they're getting and beating their heads up against the wall, that's like really turns me on. That's really part of my big mission.

You just love helping people. I know. I'm— and I've enjoyed getting to know you myself, you know, just like, of course, like when you— it feels good to be able to like share information so people can actually make decisions based on having real information. And then, you know, it's rewarding that you get to, get to share that information for people and inspire people. Is that why you do this? Is that what you like about what you do?

I do like that very, very much. I was a yoga teacher for 10 years. I was a host on Home Shopping Network for 20. The, the, you know, when I went into the interview for Home Shopping Network, I left the interview and thought I had blown it and that I wasn't going to get the job because I said in the interview, they're like, well, why do you want to get this job? And like, part of me was like, because I need money. I need a job. I was traveling at the time, speaking for a company called SkillPath Seminars, and I was traveling 2 weeks out of every month. And of those 2 weeks, I was in a different hotel and an airplane every single night. And so When my friend said to me, you know, it came to me in meditation, you should be a host on Home Shopping Network. I thought that was the stupidest idea I'd ever heard. Through a series of events, I ended up meeting a woman who worked there. She wanted to network with me about becoming a speaker. And I ended up on campus dropping off my resume. I could have done that myself, but it was like a catalyst where God was like, hello. So when I went for the 6th interview, they asked me why I wanted the job. Now, part of it, of course, was I wanted to stay at home, and part of it was also I had been a customer, and I really did feel that it helped people. And I said that in the interview. And when I left, I thought, oh my gosh, I blew it. I sounded like I was on a beauty pageant. I was saying world peace. I mean, but after a year, I finally had this casual conversation with my boss, and he said, oh yeah, by the way, 'You know, that one answer you gave like really helped us make the decision to go with you.' Well, I was like, gosh darn it, that is such a big lesson to just be yourself. Like, you know, be yourself. And, and at some point, I mean, sometimes you have to be bigger than yourself, sometimes you have to like maneuver things, but, and still of course always being your authentic true self with integrity. But in that moment, and I think it was very much on purpose at that moment, stuck in my mind that it was proof concept that for the highest good and in the end, that kind of truth will, will work in your favor. So anyway, that's a long story. But that is why I think it is my nature. I think it is part of my karmic path. And I also think, you know, like, I don't want to waste what I went through. I'm not like toxic positivity, like, well, it's the greatest thing that ever happened to me, me being ill and working in a mold-infested building for 20 years. Like this No, that is not where I'm coming from. I'm coming from, okay, this happened. I'm not going to waste it. I want to help other people to make sure that they don't go through what I went through.

Ladies, high-risk HPV virus doesn't have to control your life. I'm Dr. Doni, and I've been at the forefront of women's health for over 20 years. I've helped thousands of women to clear HPV naturally with my proven protocol. And this isn't about just managing the virus. It's about eliminating it for good. Join my workshop and take control of your health and your body with an expert guide by your side. Click the button below. Well, I think that people pick up on that right away. I know I do. I'm sure that the reason you worked with Home Shopping Network for so long is because people relate to you as an authentic person, and that was automatic for you, and it still is. And that's why, you know, helping to create now these summits related to people's health is also helping so many people because they— not only are you good at talking on camera, but you're really good at connecting with people in a real way. And I don't know if I'm—

I—

we didn't talk about this before, but I, I wonder if you don't mind me asking about— because you're saying about your personal story, right, and how your personal story is so much of this. You had mentioned when we were doing another presentation about the history with narcissistic abuse, and this is something which which is, is, uh, so like, it's so important to me because it's been part of my healing story and my audience knows that. And also it's a huge part of a lot of women's healing story. You know, that so much of women healing is healing on an emotional level. And, and when you've been through narcissistic abuse and recovered from it, that, that means you've been through emotional recovery and trauma, facing trauma. And I think that's huge. And Yeah, I don't know if you feel comfortable speaking to that a little bit.

Well, I wasn't expecting you to ask me that, but I'm very glad to speak to it. So for 38 years, I experienced a narcissist loving me in a very complicated way, and it is not my spouse. It was actually a spiritual teacher, and she came into my life in a very vulnerable time. My mother was ill, my father had died when I was 13, And she brought a lot of gifts with her. She absolutely helped me, and I'd never want to take what was to her credit away from her. And as time went on, and as I became more enmeshed with her and more dependent on her and more feeding her, and, um, it just became like too much, and there was an overpowering that happened. And for 38 years, I never said no to her. And she did bring wisdom, and she brought me a lot of spiritual insight, and da da da da. And so as time went on and she deteriorated mentally, and her fear grew, and her bitterness grew, and her entitlement grew, and her lack of taking responsibility for anything in her life expanded, which, by the way, I was totally feeding into. I was the chosen one. I mean, I just let it all hang out. Like, I loved being the chosen one. Who doesn't love that? I mean, that's what they're just feeding that, like, whoa, I'm special. I really— it was classic. And then through a fast forward, I literally moved her out of state to another location because for 33 of the year, she complained about where she lived and how miserable she was. And I thought, well, I'll make her happy. I will move her. And we finally moved and she was still miserable. And it was fascinating for me to go, oh, I can't make anyone else happy. This is a bottomless pit. Oh, why is she being so horrible to my husband? Oh, why is she so negative? Why is she so angry? Why is she so bitter? Why is she so ugly in her personality? And It was heartbreaking to me, and I was in such deep denial. A variety of things divinely orchestrated, and thank goodness happened, and I finally had to separate myself from her. I still am connected to her in certain ways, and it is at a distance, and it is very manageable. but it is on my terms now instead of in this really toxic relationship. It gave me tremendous insight into how this could happen in a marriage. It gave me insight into how this could happen in families, uh, and certainly in the corporate world. I dealt with a fair share of frickin' nightmares and some great people too. But I remember not knowing what a narcissist was. And I read a book. Now, I love Dr. Ramani. She's on YouTube. She's got a great book. It's Read One Page. You know, read one page and your whole life could literally change with the lights that go on and the gaslighting that gets eliminated from your brain. So please find Dr. Ramani. She's a beautiful Indian woman with long dark hair, and, um, she's truly legitimately a world-renowned expert on this. And we need to make her more world-renowned so more people can find out about this. But I didn't know what a narcissist was. And by the way, the studies are coming out too that show that if you're in a narcissistically abusive relationship, it limits your health, your physical.

Absolutely.

I know you know. Um, so I finally realized what a narcissist was, and I started looking around. I was like, oh my gosh, oh, that was one. Oh, that was one. Oh my gosh, all these people I loved not all these, but key people that I really loved. And I couldn't understand, like, when I was in the relationship, why I felt the way I did. Like, I was getting gaslit. I was, I was being told I was too sensitive. I was getting devalued left and right, but then still getting sort of like vampired my energy, feeding their egos. And then as soon as they are done with you, watch them drop you like a hot potato. When your head is spinning going, what did I do wrong? You did nothing wrong, by the way. So anyway, I could go on and on. If you are, you know what, it's not even if you suspect you're in a narcissistic relationship, just to be a human on the planet, to be educated about the weather or how to eat right, you should find out about what is a narcissistic relationship. And recently I saw Dr. Ramani interviewed And I think it was Lisa Baloue's podcast, and she started talking about couples therapy, and she said, I'm a therapist. I think it was that podcast. I'm a therapist, so I shouldn't really say this, but that there are so many therapists that traumatize couples— the narcissist, but the one who's getting abused— by saying you really need to take responsibility. You know, what can you do differently? They've already given their kidney, their liver, and their first, last, you know, pension payment, and they're then getting told that they have to take a certain amount of responsibility. This is more gaslighting. So absolutely find out about narcissism in general. Watch some of her videos, grab her book. So if it's not you that's going through it, which I pray to God no one is, you can help a friend who is, because I'm sure we have friends who are. Okay, thanks Doni for letting me do that public service announcement.

Absolutely, because it's, it's I feel so strongly. I mean, I experienced it myself most of my life, and I, and I, so I see the connections. And now I, as a naturopathic doctor, I identify it more and more in my patients and am finding myself helping to guide women through identifying it and navigating. Once you realize that you're in a relationship that is abusive, on how to then recover from it and how to protect your health even while you're in it. And so this is true for women who have abnormal Pap smears. The research shows that women who've experienced narcissistic abuse at any age, whether that was from childhood into adulthood, have increased risk of cervical cancer. And it doesn't stop there. Like you said, it— there's all different health issues associated. As you know, I research and write about stress and trauma, and I see in the research how much trauma in general impacts our health. And yet I especially want to put the spotlight on narcissistic abuse. And, and, and sometimes we get hesitant to use the term abuse, you know, because like, like you're saying, sometimes we're like, hey, what part did I play in this? And I do, you know, that's an important part of it because it's a part of our healing as we go Hey, I was choosing into this, you know, we're, we're 100% into it, right?

100%.

And yet right now the terminology is narcissistic abuse. And sometimes it's actually very helpful to acknowledge that that was part, you know, I, you know, it's, it's important and validating to say, hey, I experienced this and now I see how I was choosing into it. And that's part of the healing process. And I think This is such a valuable thing for women because it— while yes, men can also experience narcissistic abuse, it's way more common for women to experience it. And as you said, it's not just from romantic relationships, and it's— but it's an important part of this, like, hey, once you start to kind of realize, hey, this is all interconnected to my health, and, and part of healing from that is that women start to choose how to take care of themselves better. And that's where something like The work that you do and the— in the Women's Health Rescue, for example, it's really saying to women, hey, you can put your health back into your own hands instead of being dependent on someone else to decide about your health, whether that was a healthcare provider who was an authority who was deciding about your health or, or a family member who had the authority to decide about your health. But we're saying, hey, you get to put your health in your own hands and come listen to experts, and then you get to decide what you wanna do for your health instead of have, you know what I mean? Instead of this old paradigm where we're dependent on someone else for our health choices.

This is such a good point. Thank you for bringing it up. So my platform is SIBO SOS, Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth SOS, and my summits and the company is Chronic Condition Rescue. So like SOS and Rescue, I thought it was cute, you know, 10 years ago. And the SOS came to mean save ourselves, like organically that came out of my mouth like 4 years in. And the rescue is about us rescuing ourselves. This is not about big mama or daddy in the sky coming down and sweeping in and rescuing us. What I found was when I was actively in this mess was that I didn't have the energy to take better care of myself. We don't make the decisions. To— and they say this about decorating your house too— that people who have experienced this kind of, uh, like traumatic abuse of someone overtaking you, um, they have a hard time individuating, and therefore they have a hard time making decisions about home decor. I thought that was fascinating. But also about your personal health. When was the last time you went to the dentist? When was the last time you had an annual exam? When was the last time you had a Pap? They say, you know, like, oh, do you want to add HPV to it? Uh, yes, I do want to add an HPV test to it because I went to the University of Florida in the '80s Thank you very much. So, you know, whatever it is, you know, mammogram or whatever your breast imaging is, qt imaging. Dr. Jen Simmons, she's going to be—

she's going to be at the summit.

I saw that. Dr. Yvonne Kearney also. These very specialized machines to measure your situation with your breasts. But like, have you not had a eval in a year, 2, 3? Taking care of everybody else so much that you've lost yourself. My mom, I think, had an aspect of that and also was a different time. She was married to a man who was 30 years older, wonderful father that I had. But I did see her give up on some of the things that I wish she had done differently. And we can say that about ourselves too, right?

Yes.

But this summit was really inspired by her, as was the menopause summit, because if she had had this kind of empowering information, I think she would have grabbed it and run with it. So I love getting— I want to call it secret information. I don't want to keep it a secret, but extracting stool testing information, how to get a urinary tract infection under control. Interstitial cystitis, you don't have to live with that forever, by the way. And it's not always E. coli, and it isn't because you didn't get a clean catch. And then like this implication that you don't know how to have basic hygiene. Uh, there's so many pieces of information— how to talk to your daughter about her period, perimenopause, you're not going crazy. The amount of women that lose a tooth in menopause What? This, this is what I want everyone to know about so that they can be empowered and get that information. Breast implant illness. Dr. Robert Whitfield is on there. Of course I needed him too. There were a couple people that were on the new Science and Wisdom of Menopause Summit that I pulled forward into this summit because— and I could have done it with half of them, honestly. There were 70 speakers in that summit. They're about 35, 40 in this one, uh, because I wanted to really get some essential information out there. Dr. Bryce Applebaum on how you can naturally support your vision. So just this foregone conclusion that, well, as you get older, your prescriptions are going to get stronger and stronger. You know, even if that's like going to be true for you, there's still things you can do to make sure that your, your eyesight is as good as it can be. So this is like really exciting to me to get this out. We are launching it right now. In the future, if someone's watching this after this time period where you're releasing it, I am working on getting the summits evergreened. So it's not just they happen to catch me when we're doing a launch, uh, because I have this vault of information with hundreds of classes. And by the way, in the beginning when I was doing my summits, it was interviews. But as I sort of got into the like 8th one, I asked people to do master classes. Which is basically like a medical conference for laypeople and lots of practitioners, and then supported by these studies. So you will be watching some interviews, but primarily masterclasses. And if people decide to purchase it, they can get the slides. And then here's where AI comes in really handy. You can search the content, go, hey, what did that one person say about biological hormones? What was it that Dr. Wilson was talking about with HPV? And it will take you right to the transcript. Of what was said about that particular topic. So I'm really excited about that new development.

Amazing. It really is amazing. And thank you for reviewing that because it is— it's like for women to know, like, hey, here's all the— this information about things you may have been wondering about, from eyesight to— I'm covering vaginal health to bladder health too, because I know you also have Kim Bopney on there talking about pelvic floor health. And, and so we can like cover these topics that women need to know No matter your age, by the way, like from, you know, this is information that I think women should have from, you know, even from being a teenager through the rest of your life, right?

Absolutely. Have you ever been in— I hope this doesn't happen to you, Doni— but have you ever been in a doctor's office and you've said, you know, I was wondering about this? Okay, well, go pee in the cup. We'll see. We'll do a little dipstick and see if anything is going on. There. And then they're like, oh, we don't see anything. It's fine. And you're like, in your head, you're like, something's up. Something's up. I know something's up. We don't really feel that we could pursue this. I mean, we're the gynecologist's office. So I mean, if you want to go to a urologist, that's fine. And that like this, and then you feel very frustrated and like you hit a wall. That is not acceptable to me. That's not It is not.

Me neither. Me neither.

I know. And none of these speakers think it's okay either. Okay, so you— but you need to know what is the right question to ask? What is the right test to take? And today, with so many wonderful labs opening up their doors to having people be able to order directly, you could walk into a practitioner appointment with a lab and save yourself some time, energy, and money and start and hit the ground running with the lab results in hand. I'm not saying all practitioners are gonna be able to interpret that lab or anything like that, but there— if you see that, like, let's say there's a bacterial overgrowth, you're like, I knew it, I'm not crazy. Okay, let's go find someone to help me. So this is what I'm very excited about, as you can tell.

It's like put it again, it's putting your health into your own hands. And so then you can also have enough information to be able to make decisions and to know that certain tests are available. It's It's true. Like, I think a lot of times when people first reach out to me, they may not even realize that some of these labs exist that can give you the information you need because it may not be in the standard doctor's office where they're doing just basic blood work. But there are labs that can do to get the testing to give you the information so that you can move forward. And I think that that's huge. And the thing is, is that the more we have this information at our fingertips— now, the thing is that people can also, you know, people are going to be searching on Google or catching things. True, and AI and all that. But here you have a situation where instead of just trusting the internet or AI, you've got experts in a summit where you can, you know, they have way more clinical experience and research behind them.

Well, I call it, and I'm not the only one to call 'em this, but HI, right? So human intelligence. So you combine all of that together and then you can make a connection with the speaker as well. And you know, feel like, oh yeah, I could talk to her, you know, or him. This is, this is really, really important information. We've got heart health, we have number one cause of women's death is heart disease. My father had multiple heart attacks. There are pictures of me in his bed at the hospital, and I'm in diapers as a baby. So East Indian, half, half Irish, you know, The East Indian, our metabolism is, metabolic health is not great. We have other gifts. But whether you're of that descent or not, you need to know about the tests and the information about your heart health. The other, I think last year, it was last year, I thought I was having a heart attack, Doni, and it was actually food poisoning. And I walked into the emergency room. God bless my husband. I was like, just pull over. Just find me a gas, a fire station, a fire. I was like, they could put me in an ambulance there. Legitimately scared for my life. I was so scared. And I, I have ever since then thought about my heart health differently. And it was food poisoning. It wasn't a heart attack, thank God. But I thought, oh, right, yeah, this could happen. This, like, the denial is over for me. Just to have had that fear— and I'm not coming from like all being fear-mongering. That's not what I'm coming from. I'm coming from I was a very healthy human being for a very long time, and I took that health for granted. And I think most of us do and enjoy it, right? But preserve it. Get your steps in, do your weightlifting, get your proper, you know, you know, you got to get the proper protein. You're sick of cottage cheese. I get it. I get it all. We have some really innovative talks talking about things that I'm I'm sure it'll be very motivational for people, very inspirational, and certainly transformational. So that was the goal.

Oh my gosh, thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming today, and thank you for creating the Women's Health Rescue Summit. I'll definitely have a link in the, in the podcast notes so people can go check it out and join and listen in. And even after the fact, as Siobhan says, you're going to be able to get information. So, um, so Thank you again so much for joining me today, Siobhan. It's so good to talk with you and to thank you for sharing your story about why you do what you do. And, and I really see how you're, you're helping so many people with their health. So thank you for that.

Thank you, Dr. Wilson. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you there.

Take care. And thanks, everyone, for joining. If you're new here, then I welcome you to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode of How Humans Heal. I'll see you soon. Thanks for listening to How Humans Heal. If you liked this episode, leave a rating and a review. And for more resources, visit drdoni.com.