Decide to Try Everything You Can to Heal with Julie Michelson! | How Humans Heal Podcast

Hi and welcome to how humans heal. I'm Dr. Donni Wilson and I'm so excited to introduce you today to Julie Michelson. She is a functional medicine health coach who specializes in autoimmunity after recovering from rheumatoid arthritis herself. And now she's out helping thousands of people to do the same thing. And so thank you so much for joining me today, Julie. I'm so excited to share this information with everyone listening.

My pleasure to be here.

Well, so tell us a bit more about your journey of, you know, say, how long ago was that that you were diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis?

I was diagnosed almost, wow, 20 years ago.

I was in my early 30s, single mom, three young kiddos, and I got diagnosed much quicker than most. I got, I really did get diagnosed probably within the year of at least having symptoms, of searching for answers. I'm sure I ignored symptoms for a while before that, but. And so, yeah, that was the, the beginning of sadly over a decade of decline.

As so many, unfortunately, people here when they're diagnosed with an autoimmune condition. I was told there was nothing I could do and I wouldn't heal and I, I mean, obviously wouldn't change my path at this point, but I believed them. I really did. I. They said expect decline, and so I did.

Wow. And 10 years. So you were, I'm assuming you were not only having joint pain and you're still trying to take care of your children and you're maybe they're trying you on different medications.

That's an understatement. Yes, I was in that spiral 11 years in. I was on 10 prescriptions.

Wow.

Yeah. And yes, joint pain, fatigue, brain fog. I was, you alluded to with the kiddos. I was at the point I couldn't work any longer. I had quit the master's program I was doing, and I had to rest while my kids were at school so that I could be present with them and for them, afternoon into evening and we would do it all over again the next day.

So what was that moment when you, was it a moment or was it a process where you kind of like realized, wow, there's something else I can do? Or had you been searching for something else?

I hadn't really been searching. I think I was on the periphery. But I really did believe the doctors. But I would read things or hear things and bring it to my doctor and say, well, what about this or what about that? And of course they would poo poo it and tell me to take my meds. And be a good girl. And it was really twofold. I did have the experience. I wasn't even fully aware of what it meant at the time. My older son, a few years prior to my big aha moment, had been diagnosed with celiac. And so to be a good mom, he was just about to turn 13. I went gluten free to support him.

Wow. So he also had an autoimmune condition.

Yeah. And I had not then yet been diagnosed celiac, but that is probably my original autoimmune condition.

Interesting.

Just snuck under the radar. And when I went gluten free to support him, I noticed that. Wow. I could feel an improvement in my joint pain. It wasn't gone by any stretch, but it was noticeable and more noticeable than any medication that they had given me.

Isn't that something? So just by. And sometimes it is like that. Right? We're willing to do something for our child. I know when I went gluten free, it was for my daughter. My daughter was having a lot of digestive issues as a baby, and prior to that, I wouldn't have dreamed of going gluten free. But when it was her that was being affected, I was like, okay, I'm going to go gluten free. And then I was like, wow, this is so much better for me. So I completely understand. Like, you're like, wait a minute, this is a missing piece of my health too.

It was. And that did get me intrigued and curious about, well, what else? And that was where I would. You know, I remember at one point asking the doctor, well, what about nightshades? And what about. About this and what about that? And I did. By the time I knew I needed to search in a different direction, I was already doing paleo. Although I joke I was doing it wrong, but I thought I was doing paleo. And really what happened was my daughter, who's my youngest, came to me one night and literally said, mom, please don't die and leave us. And I was in my 40s. I didn't think I would live to see 50.

Oh, my gosh. That's so scary.

It was very scary. My dad had passed at 54, and he was seemingly healthy, and so here I was.

He has an autoimmune condition.

No, not, Not. Not that we know of. Yeah. And so that was always tucked in the back of my mind. But then to hear that, you know, your children are laying awake at night with the same fears, and so what I promised her in that moment changed my life and hopefully the lives of many people, because What I promised was, I'll try everything. And it was like that was the moment that I realized I had. And I know you hear it all the time because I hear it all the time, too. I've tried everything. And it's like, no, you just think you have. And so that got me stepping out of the box and really searching.

Yeah. It's like, it's one thing to try everything we're aware of, and that the conventional doctor or rheumatologist is telling us that's like a part of the puzzle, you know, a part of the pie chart. You know, if you're looking at pie chart, but then there's this whole other. All the other things that maybe we aren't aware of, never heard of, didn't even think of, and didn't even know was possible. Especially because, you know, we usually are taught like, here's the medical system, here's your insurance. Here's what your insurance is going to cover. You know, and we're kind of in this path to open our mindset to say, wait a minute, maybe there's other approaches that I'm not going to hear of in the conventional doctor's office, and I are not going to be covered by insurance, but it could save my life. In your situation, literally, it was saving your life to say, hey, I'm willing to open up my view here and think about what else is possible and start looking for other, other options. Wow, that's really. That's something. What does your daughter say now?

She says, why do you talk about me on podcasts?

She's like, you're telling that again. But it's so inspiring what she said to you.

It is inspiring. And she's my biggest cheerleader, and she's the one. And she used to say to me when she was younger.

I was that mom when my kids were really young, even in the first several years I was sick, I was PTA president, I was the soccer mom, I was the this, the that. And then life got smaller and smaller and smaller out of necessity. And she used to say, you know, how come you used to do so much more with the boys? And I would say, I'm tired. Or, you know, how come I get away with so much more than my brothers? I'm tired.

Yeah.

And now, you know, she sees. She and I got certified in November to open water, scuba dive together. And so to go from them trying to get me to put a handicap placard on the car, to years later where I'm trying new sports and adventures and Life has gotten bigger and bigger. It's inspiring for her. She knows that we really. We are in charge of our health, and it is up to us to keep searching.

Isn't that something? And what is your. What does your rheumatologist say?

Sadly, my rheumatologist that I had had for years and years passed away from complications of autoimmunity. Wow. So sad. And she was actually a friend, and so that was really sad.

The rheumatology could help her, right?

You're like, yeah, I'm like, you know, all those questions I asked you if you had tried those things. My. My second rheumatologist that I went to when, when the first one started to become ill was cute. He fired me basically. You know, he. He. It said at one point, because, I mean, I was on painkillers. I was on. I mean, you name it, I was on it. And he would say, well, do you need a refill? And I'd say, no. And he'd say, well, nobody takes themselves off of painkillers, you know, But. But there was no, what are you doing? Like, there was a good, you know, good job, but like, no, what are you. And even when he fired me, you know, he said, look, I like seeing you, but you have no symptoms of autoimmunity anymore. Like, there's no reason.

And you're not on any. You were off them all.

Off of all my meds. And for listeners, I didn't take myself off of any medications except for the painkillers because I didn't need them. But it just. As I got better and better, we got to just eliminate the meds with the support and advice of my doctor.

And so he was like.

It took a long time. It's a process, right? That was. It took me a long time to get there. Once I started to improve, though, I mean, it was really. I would say, as far as the meds, I think they all dropped off within about a year for sure, you know, if not quicker.

And it is important. I, I mean, I would. I. I want hear people to hear that too, to know, like, it's. It's not something that happens overnight. It's not a too good to be true, you know, drop everything by tomorrow kind of situation. It's. And we're going to talk more about what. What are the things that you found really helped you. But to just get a sense of, like, you know, once you kind of open up to this possibility, then we. You guide through a, you know, sequence of steps. And it, of course, is Individualized. It depends on the person. Like when I help patients with rheumatoid arthritis and I've, I've helped so many patients who were able to do the same as you reverse the rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune conditions and, and be able to feel good again and not. Is that you don't need the medications anymore because the immune system has reset and the pain went away. So it's kind of like it's not that you're just rebelling and dealing with the pain. It's that literally the autoimmune process has turned off and your joints don't in. Your pain is gone, so you don't need the medications anymore. And it just. Just the fact that it's. To know that it's possible because most, you know, from when I was trained over 22 years ago, even in nature public medical school, we were not trained that autoimmunity can turn off. That has been some information that's come over the time that I've been in practice and been seeing from patients is. It's like, wow, that, that once they. Because it's thought in most conventional medicine and rheumatology that once autoimmunity turns on, most times it stays on. Now they do have a concept of remission where they'll. Where the autoimmunity calms down.

I'm just, you know, in their mind that's fine. You can call it what you want. I'm in remission for the rest of my life.

That's. I'd like to be in remission for the rest of my life.

You can turn off and stay off. And that the immune system isn't just stuck in one position or the other. It has this ability to change. And so. Yeah. Tell us a little more. What do you think were the key aspects? I mean, we mentioned gluten, but talk us through what. What do you see as the main aspects of being able. Because now it's not just your body, but you help other people too. What do you see?

Yeah. And as you mentioned, you have systems and they're individualized. I have systems and they're individualized. At the time, I still hadn't heard of functional medicine, certainly hadn't heard of health coaching. And so I. It was just trial and error. And so it was a slower process.

Because I didn't even know to look to identify the root causes to treat them, which is what you and I go right for. Right. Like we're just going to go right to it. But so Food, definitely for me, gluten was one. It was way more than gluten. I have a lot of other food sensitivities. But what was missing in my diet was just as important. I had grown up and stayed low fat for a really long time. And so I didn't know enough to test my omegas back then, but I'm sure they were terrible.

And so that was a big key for me, food wise. It was again, I think so many of us focus on what do we need to avoid, but it's also like, what do we need to be eating? I was already eating lots of veggies and good things, but I very, very deficient in healthy fats.

It's true. That message of. I mean, I learned that message. I originally trained as a nutritionist in the 90s, and the main message from the, that I was trained in back in the 90s was decrease your fat, be fat free. This whole fat free craze. And as a nutritionist, I kept crunching the numbers and I was like, this doesn't work out. I'm like, if we do this, it's going to cause more issues. So I actually abandoned. I abandoned that whole theory in the 90s because I could see that it wasn't going to work. But it doesn't. But it wasn't abandoned by the Dietetics association or the, you know, American Heart Association. No. They kept going with that for decades. And so I still find there's people who are like, wait a minute, I can eat fat? Yes.

Oh, my gosh. It's a big process. I work with, you know, especially my female clients that are in their 60s. It's such a process. And then they, you know, they think they finally got it and. But then I find I just found out I have a client who has completely turned so many things around and. Amazing. And she. We've worked through the whole fat thing. And then I found out the other day she mentioned something about calorie. I'm like, wait a minute, what are you doing? You know, like these old patterns just come up. They really do.

Yes. Yeah. And luckily, even with, you know, food sensitivities like gluten and dairy, now there's so many more options available. And maybe we touch on that a minute just to. For someone who maybe isn't as aware, like the connection in the research, there's actually research that connects directly gluten with triggering not only inflammation and autoimmunity, but also gluten causes something called leaky gut or intestinal permeability. And the research connects leaky gut with increased risk of autoimmunity of all different types. Now, we've been mostly talking about rheumatoid arthritis because of your. Your case. But all. There's hundreds of different autoimmunity, which just means autoimmunity to me. My interpretation is that it's that the immune system is confused. And instead of. Because normally our immune system should help protect us from viruses and bacteria and stuff that shouldn't be there, but what happens is the immune system starts to try to protect us from ourselves in our own cells. And rheumatoid arthritis is trying to protect us from our joint tissue.

And.

There'S research to show for us as an horrible doctor in functional medicine. We start to say, well, why? What triggers the immune system to begin with to start to think it needs to protect you from your own body? If you think about it, our immune system shouldn't protect from ourselves.

No, it's confused. It's clearly confused. And it's the one thing I always say, you know, I do believe under a certain umbrella of, you know, I think everybody should eat real foods and whole foods, and then diet is individualized. But I believe if you have any diagnosis of autoimmunity or it runs in your family, you know, any concern, or you just don't ever want to get it, avoiding gluten is the number one thing that I could say across the board, like, if you have autoimmunity, you need to stop eating gluten.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you, actually, Julie and I. My family has. I have the genes for autoimmunity. I actually have the genes for rheumatoid arthritis.

I don't.

You don't actually have them. I do. And both my parents have autoimmunity. My grandmother had autoimmunity. So it's. So I. I'm so grateful that way back when I figured out to avoid gluten, because I believe I've been, as you're saying, I've been preventing it. So if you are listening and you know autoimmunity is in your family, and because there is a genetic component, a hereditary piece of autoimmunity that's not always there, like you're saying you didn't even have, and yet your immune system still did it. But it. If you kind of know already, this is kind of a higher risk, you might already be thinking, oh, boy, I better pay attention to gluten and leaky gut. And. Because, absolutely.

Well, we say in functional medicine, genetics may load the gun but environment pulls the trigger, which is the beauty. Right. That's why you know you can prevent. You don't need to switch those genes on.

Exactly.

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It'S and to know that like to just even here we are talking about gut health, right? Our digestion, how well we're digesting our food, how well we're absorbing, is our immune system ending up trying to protect us from our food, which is also a confusion. Right. Our immune system should never have to try to protect us from our food. Our food should get digested and absorbed so we can get the nutrients. If your immune system is trying to protect you from your food, that already tells you there's this issue going on.

Right. But you already have leaky. I mean that's that spiral that we get into. Once we get leaky gut and the food's getting out where it's not supposed to be, we create more and more sensitivities and then that's where some of that confusion may happen. Instead of going after the protein, it's going after tissue. Depending on pick your diagnosis, whether it's thyroid or joint or whatever. And it is. I don't know that one. I don't know how you maybe you could feel better with autoimmunity while still eating gluten, but you're certainly not going to completely heal.

Yeah and it's this concept of they call in the research molecular mimicry where it's. And the same thing with. Yeah like you said with celiac disease, it's that the immune system is trying to protect from gluten and it ends up trying to protect from the tissue in the walls of your intestines or with thyroid, it starts trying to protect you from your own thyroid gland because it looks like gluten. So it's like poor dairy or dairy. So if we just take the gluten out now, usually I recommend doing a food sensitivity test, but it's really important.

Yes. Do I?

You do. Okay. Then you'll probably agree with me. It's important to get a very accurate one that's going to get results that you can follow. So if you've. If you have done one and you're like, but the results were not clear, then that's another good reason to work with. With one of us to help practitioner.

So that you really get the right information. And potentially, like Julie did, just. And like I did, just try avoiding gluten and see if you feel better. Because sometimes the tests don't show it all. You need an elimination diet. That's what that's called. And an elimination diet. Right. Can do the trick too well.

And I always say, no matter what, I believe that's the best way to do it. A for healing. So we know we can really heal the gut. But also, I tease my clients, you know, in 10 years, they don't care if I said, don't eat gluten. Right. But they care that they remember how they feel when they eat gluten once they can get those signals after they do their elimination. And so for listeners out there that are like, I've been eating gluten my whole life and I feel fine, you'd be amazed at what can happen once you do an elimination diet and get your inflammation down and then reintroduce.

Yeah. Because these food sensitivities are delayed response. It's not about the immediate response. We usually think of food reactions as, like, when someone's allergic to peanuts and they need to go to the emergency room right away. But usually.

Or if somebody, you know, something sends you to the bathroom right away, you can connect that dot. But when it takes two, three days for a symptom to pop up, you're not thinking, oh, what did I eat for breakfast three days ago?

Yeah. So it's like you avoiding it for a period of time and start to feel better, then I agree. It's like, then someone's like, oh, my gosh, I got gluten.

They might.

It's a verb in our house, too, right? Yep.

And they might be in pain for a week. And they're like, okay, now I understand.

Yeah. Yeah. You will remember that. I promise.

So there's the diet part and the leaky gut healing. And of course in the gut there's also the gut bacteria. But tell us in terms of your healing process, what else really you think was transformative for you?

Well, this is so right up your alley as you have your book over your shoulder and I have your book right here. I started a really committed, dedicated meditation practice.

I love it.

And I was one of those people that I didn't feel stressed out if you had asked me. So again, we talk about chronic stress and the impact it has on the gut and inflammation.

But I can tell you the key. It was just unbelievable how noticeable.

My sleep was better, my pain was better, my energy was better. I woke up with energy for the first time in probably a decade. Never thought I would wake up with energy again. It was remarkable. So really having a dedicated stress and that was just the beginning of what is now my stress management routine. But daily I did 20 minutes twice a day. And that's not where I start. My clients, we start much smaller than that. But that's where I jumped in and it was truly life changing.

So I'm curious, in your life before rheumatoid arthritis, what did it look like in terms of stress and self care? Was it just there was zero self care or what did that look like? How did that transition look for you from.

I definitely had.

Self care routines. I don't know about routines. I had things that I now incorporate in my self care. I was an avid hiker, but if you look at what was kind of pre symptom, I had moved across the country and gotten divorced and everything seemed great. Even the divorce was a stressor and the move was a choice. It was a happy move. We lived to live in Colorado. It's beautiful here. But stress is stress is stress. Right. And so I managed through all of that fine. After all of that settled down. And.

I would say, if I'm being honest, I am sure I was just like most of the other moms with young kids that I encounter where it was just all about them, right. I'm running around. They were 2, 4 and 6 at the time. So there we go.

You were, you were already six years into have, you know, I mean, I have one daughter and it, it's a lot because you usually you're, you know, between just trying to keep up with their school activities and their laundry and feeding them and you know, it's something we choose of course, a beautiful thing to have kids and be parents. But I definitely think it's not enough information about how do we take care of ourselves while parenting?

That's, that's. And that, that takes work, that takes sometimes support. It takes an awareness of, you know. Yes. It, it actually makes you a better mom to take better care of yourself.

I always say, you know, it makes you a better mother, partner, friend, child, you know, you name it. When you have a good self care routine.

Yeah. And we end up then showing like you did to your daughter and I'm sure your, your other two too, that it's like, hey, this is what it looks like when mom is eating well and feeling better. And so then they're getting a different message for themselves and for when they become parents, if they choose them.

Absolutely, absolutely. And all of mine do have autoimmune issues.

And so they know, they know then sometimes they don't execute that well. They're all in their 20s and. But they know, they know how to uplevel and what they need to be doing to take good care of their bodies. For sure.

Oh my gosh. Amazing. So then in your, tell us more about when you work with, you know, people, how do you work with them? What does that look like?

So I use a lot of testing. As I said, I fumbled my way through and it took years. And we can get results much quicker than that. Although it is a process, I like to look under the rocks. I use complete functional medicine labs, including quality food sensitivity panels. Another piece of my journey that I was really fortunate to heal enough without even knowing at the time I had major toxicity issues. And we see that so often with autoimmunity. So we take a really good history and.

Sometimes there are other rocks to look under like infections or viruses, things like that, but toxins, food, and then again that full panel where we are looking at things like the omegas and deep dive thyroid panels, hormones, all of it, to get a really good picture of ideas of, okay, what are your triggers? I used to say root cause. Nobody has just one. It's always this, yes, combination, combination of things. And the gut is always part of it. Literally always part of it.

We do testing to get information right away up and running. I work with my clients one on one. I have an amazing physician that is included in my programs because I kept like, okay, well now I need to refer because there's this piece or that piece. And so now it's just what gives the best results. And so it's a team approach, but lots of accountability and support. And as you mentioned, I like to say I have a framework. And then within that framework, it's all individualized with my clients.

Yeah, it's true because I, I mean, as I think of different cases, you know, as you mentioned, sometimes there is a toxic exposure. I also see this in like juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, you know, where it's at a young age. And I've, I've seen where, you know, it's been toxin exposure, often mold exposure or other forms of toxins where that was confusing the immune system and triggering. And once we could actually do, as you're mentioning, there's testing for like say mold toxins or environmental toxins or that these are not tests that are going to happen in the, in the rheumatologist's office. They're just not. No, not going to happen.

No, they're not looking, you know, they're treating the symptoms and they're trying to shut off a system that's already running, whereas you and I are looking for, okay, well what caused that? And let's fix that. And then as you mentioned earlier, it will correct. It will shut off, it will normalize.

And then once you, once you learn, like once you get rid of the toxins and you help your body recover and your gut to heal and you know, set up these new lifestyle, like you're saying even meditation or whatever, it doesn't have to be meditation. Right. It can be whatever stress recovery activities that works for that person. But then you're so glad that you feel better. Of course you're going to want to keep going with that.

Yes. Yeah. And then it's you up level. Right. I mean, that's kind of. I always joke when it, when it comes to. And it's interesting. I used to start because it is so. The gut is so key. I used to start, you know, with food right away and then realize that, oh, we really need better stress management in place before we jump into all of that. I joke. I've become a kinder, gentler coach and it works. It works well.

But I joke with my clients because I have some that are counting the days in the elimination phase and there's not a set number. We do at least 30 days and then we take it from there. And nobody believes me when I say I am going to need to encourage you to do re intros because you're going to feel well and you're not going to want to rock the boat. Oh, no way. I'm going to miss sugar too much. And it's invariable. It happens every time. And then it is, it's fun to watch People just continue. Now, it's not about avoiding symptoms, but it's like, oh, but I want to be younger and stronger and more vibrant and, you know, and, and, and, and, and so we optimize sleep and all of the lifestyle areas to do just that.

Amazing, right? And to. It's like, makes you realize that the autoimmunity was really a signal saying, hey, I need some help in here. Yeah, these are. I'm not getting it. The nutrients that. Right. Like, yeah.

Well, when I say if we ignore those signs and symptoms, they. And that's what a symptom is. It's communication. And when we ignore it without fail, it will get louder for sure.

And then the louder becomes inflammation and pain and. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's. If we. I love that if we ignore these signals from our bodies, it's just going to get louder and then, and we, we tend to kind of, I mean, which sometimes we feel like we want to, like, just get into a battle with our own body or reject our own body or. And, and that just gets us to this point of questioning our life and our purpose. Right. Like, what am I doing here? And, and it's not to say that it's a, it's an easy shift. Sometimes it's a hard shift to say, to sort of like, stand back enough and say, hey, what. How can I look at this differently? How can I accept my body? Do you find that that's part of it is helping your patients to accept their own body.

And the stress signal?

Absolutely. I think it's is really common as people get sicker and sicker and decline to think of their body as their enemy, or they identify with the diagnosis or the symptom, and it's this war going on. You can't heal that way. So we have to do the mindset work. I always say it's partnership.

It feels like a struggle. But your body, as you just mentioned, really was just giving you the information that this isn't working.

And, you know, it's so important to heal that partnership in order to heal your physical symptoms.

Yeah, it's so beautiful. And sometimes it does take a moment like you had with your daughter, where we were pushed so much to our limit that we go, okay, I got to consider something else here at this point.

Yeah, absolutely. And which is why I get really excited when somebody comes to me and says, you know, they're testing me for autoimmunity. No, what can I do? Let's. Let's go. And that's rare. Right. You know, it's becoming a little more common as people are learning that there are options, but either way. I have a client who was 72 when I started working with her, and she thought I was insane when I told her, you know, we could find out why she'd had eczema for 70 years. And she played along because she was referred by her physician for some other work. And sure enough, at 72, she found out what her triggers for eczema were, which was super exciting. So it's never too late. It doesn't matter how many diagnoses, how many symptoms, how many meds, how old you are, and it's never too early.

Yeah, no, it's. I'm so glad you're saying that. You can start at any point and say, hey, I want to prevent this or I want to reverse this. It's never too late to just dive in and. And to. And to do this alongside. You know, like, you might also be working with the rheumatologist or the gastroenterologist if you need to do. You know, you might be in the process of diagnosing celiac disease and you need to do imaging and. But at the same time, you can kind of be like, okay, I can get this information and I can start to implement. And sometimes, I know sometimes it feels like you have to be either or. And really, you and I both know, like, it's about how do we. How do we open up and embrace both worlds and. And benefit from all of it.

Absolutely, absolutely. And. And it is. It's not either or. I'm so glad you brought that up. It's not. They work together. And I say that all the time. You know, even if the lifestyle change, the medication work better, that's a win. That's the point. And then usually what ends up happening is then you don't need them anymore down the road. But I always joke I'm not anti medication at all, and if mine were working, I'd still be on them and I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. So I'm grateful for my journey as it's been.

Yeah, yeah, there's definitely. But they. It's also important. You know, some of the medications only work temporarily or they have a lot of side effects, or sometimes they don't work at all. And so then just to know, okay, like, how do we. Yeah, well.

And are they addressing, you know, the why? Right. Why is this happening? And so, you know, things like, even I don't know why it comes up because I don't want people, you know, again, taking themselves off of medications. One of the medications that people tend to really quickly and they need to be monitored, come down off of is blood pressure meds. Right as they're making these fantastic lifestyle choices. They can drive their pressure too low if they're on medication.

I always tease that things like that.

Metabolic issues, stuff like that is, is like a much quicker hit. You know, the autoimmune stuff does tend to take a little longer, but it's, it's layers, it's process.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's helped so much to have some. A guide along that process. And that's why I'm so grateful for everything you've created and that you offer to people. How can they find out more about you and how to connect with you and get that support along this path?

Yeah, the easiest place to find me is JM Coach. And then from there you can visit the website, the podcast social. It'll take you to all the places. But it's Julie Michelson coaching wherever. And I joke, Michelson doesn't have an A. It's spelled wrong.

But that's where you can find me. And again, there's hopefully a link in the show notes. There will be for a gift for listeners for a challenge that they can take themselves through that cover all the things we just talked about from mindset through the different lifestyle changes and really, really reinforces that we can heal.

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for that and definitely I'll share, share with this video and audio that how do people can connect with you? And thank you so much for offering that challenge so they can start to go get a sense of it. Right. Of like what possible here. Where do I go next? That's so beautiful. So, so thank you again so much, Julie. It's, it's. You're such an inspiration. Just your story is an inspiration, let alone being able to, you know, offer people this support so that they don't have to figure it out themselves or do it on their own.

I say, and I know you, you can relate. I, you know, I wish I had a health coach or a doc way back when, a functional doc, a practitioner that had a wider view, as you said. And so you have so many great services for people as well. And this is why we do this. We love it and it's important.

It's so true. Yeah, just like, hey, we have this information and knowledge and wisdom and we want more people to be able to benefit from it. Right? It's like, absolutely such a beautiful intention. And so thank you again so much for that. And just. Yeah, blessings to you and your family. And I can't wait to talk to you again soon.

Yes, I love it. Thank you for having me. And we'll have to come up with an excuse for our next conversation.

Definitely. Thank you, Julie.

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