Facing Infertility with Jenica Parcell | How Humans Heal Podcast

Hi, I'm Dr. Donnie. Welcome to How Humans Heal. Today, I'm excited to introduce you to Jenica, who is a certified life coach specializing in fertility and especially helping women to be fearless, even if they're going through and facing infertility. Thank you so much for joining me today, Jenica.

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Oh, my gosh, this is such an important topic. And Meena, I also have been helping women with fertility for over 22 years, and it can be very stressful process, no matter where you are. I think in the process, even from the moment you start realizing, oh, maybe I want to have a baby, and then starting to figure out, am I ovulating, am I pregnant, is there going to be a miscarriage, is the baby okay? And then we start worrying about labor and the whole process. In fact, this was in my research as a midwife. I studied fear in labor and fear in pregnancy. And so fear.

Interesting.

Such a common. Right? It's such a common experience for women. And so I'm so glad that you're bringing attention to this and sharing your story. So tell us a little bit more. Like, I know that you've been so vulnerable to talk about your, what it was like for you to go through the fertility process. And so tell us more about that. What inspired you to want to help women with this?

Well, it's so interesting that you bring up fear because it's funny, looking back on my experience where I got married very young, I was 21 years old. And after I got married, I was like, I am still a child myself. I am not going to be ready anytime soon to have a baby. And so that wasn't even on my radar for several years. And for me, honestly, I thought the big obstacle would be getting that motherly instinct. So when I did, I think I was around 26, 27, and I thought, oh, my gosh, okay, here we are. I got through it. I want to be a mom now. This is great news. And it's just going to happen. And I think that so many people experiencing infertility, I think probably one of the hardest things about it is just that it's so unexpected. So you plan so much of your life and you expect so much of your life, and, and you assume that when you want to start a family, then it will happen for you, typically, unless there's something indicating otherwise in your health when you're growing up. And so my husband and I started trying, and a year passed by and nothing happened. And I wasn't too worried about it, honestly, at the time, because I was so naive thinking that, well, there's infertility treatments, and when you do infertility treatments, they just work. And lo and behold, they did not work. So we did three IUIs, which is artificial insemination, and then we did an egg retrieval and transferred one embryo during a round of ivf, which did not work. And then a second time we transferred the remaining two embryos, which resulted in a miscarriage, and we didn't have any embryos left. And at that point I started getting concerned because I thought, okay, well, we're doing everything that we want or that we have been told that we should be doing. And according to what we've been told, it should have worked by now. And so that was the point where I started to get a little bit nervous that it wasn't going to happen for us in the way that we thought that it would. And meanwhile, I had started a blog called a slice of style.com where I was sharing good deals on purchases and recipes. And I wasn't sharing about my infertility experience at all because I just honestly thought I'd share it when it was over because I just thought it'd be over a lot quicker than it was. And after experiencing infertility for a year, I just really felt compelled to share our story. But at the time, this was back in 2015, I didn't know a ton of people going through it and I didn't feel super comfortable talking about it. And we had gotten back from a trip to China, actually, and I was up with jet lag one day, or I guess one night, I shall say, and it was like three, two in the morning and I wrote out our whole story. And I've always loved to write, and it just felt really therapeutic. And then I felt drawn to share it and I was hesitant about that because it was something that was so close to my heart and I didn't want to say the wrong thing or be criticized or feel. I don't know, it was just such an uncomfortable thing that I hadn't planned to share. But I ended up hitting published a few weeks later and I was blown away at how common it was and how many women said, me too. Thanks for sharing. It's so nice to know I'm not alone. And unbeknownst to me, it helped me to not feel alone as well. Because going through this by myself and really not telling a whole lot of people, the weight was feeling very heavy on my shoulders and I didn't realize because it felt like it piled up slowly over the months. But as soon as I shared, I kind of felt like the weight was shared across so many people and people were praying for us and. And it was like this really hard thing that I had been not really intentionally trying to carry on my own, but carrying on my own.

I mean, I think a lot of women do.

Yeah, absolutely. And I just think it's because partially out of fear, like you had mentioned, and then I think partially out of the unknown and just not expecting to deal with this and not really knowing how to process it. And so fast forward that summer. I was traveling in Canada, and long story short, was walking down a little boutique lane, essentially one night after dinner. And I saw this book called 100 Gathered Thoughts for My Beautiful Child. And it was this author's book to her children with like a cute little note at the bottom expressing what she would want them to know. And I thought, what a beautiful way to document. So come that fall, I started writing letters on my blog to our beautiful child. And we had switched over to a different doctor and started the whole IVF process again. And that's how we documented it. And people were really invested because so many people could relate to it. And I think it was refreshing because not a whole lot of people were really talking about it at the time as well. And we ended up getting pregnant with twins that time. We did a few different things during our IVF cycle that enabled us to have healthier embryos. And we have a boy girl, twins now. And. And then I just felt really helped, like, really drawn to help women with infertility. And it's cool to look back on it because it was just baby steps, you know, I think I had started my blog and God wanted me to help women with infertility, but I. I didn't know I was even going to experience infertility at the time that I started my blog.

I just felt like it's kind of unfolding in front of you in the moment.

Yes, exactly. And so I was able to join a nonprofit. We raised a lot of money for women with infertility. And then I started listening to podcasts because I broke my toe and the only thing I could do was bike. That was the only thing that didn't hurt my toe. And I thought initially that podcasts were for boring people, and little did I know, they are not for boring people. They're so interesting to listen to. I love them. But I got sick of listening to music on my bike ride. So I started Listening to podcasts. And then I started listening to this podcast called Better Than Happy by Jody Moore. Literally two weeks before, I randomly ran into her on a street corner. She's not even. She doesn't even live in Utah. But we were. We were at an event, attending the same event, and we just ran into each other, and I said, oh, my goodness. Started listening to your podcast. She's a life coach for People for Women in the LDS Church, and. But I loved her podcast. It helped me so much. Being a life coach wasn't even on my radar at the time. You know, I was starting a product business that helped women with infertility. And anyway, it's just cool to look back and see. So, long story short, I ended up feeling just really compelled to help women with the mental aspect of infertility, helping them with their relationships with themselves and with other people so that their infertility doesn't get in the way of happiness. And even though it's a really hard thing, I think you can also learn so much from it, and you can also live a really joyful life even while experiencing it as well. So I am now, I now have a podcast called Fearless Infertility, and I.

Do one on one coaching for women with infertility. And it's just a really big part of my life is helping other women through that experience.

It's so beautiful. It is such a beautiful gift. And to, you know, to find. Wow. It was really a calling for you. You realize in the process, wow. I can help others by sharing my story and by helping them navigate their. Their journey. And I definitely think, as you're mentioning, so many women, I mean, many cultures in the world where we're kind of taught to not talk about pregnancy until we're kind of through the first trimester, which means that a lot of women are alone with it. They are often not even telling their family members or their friends or, you know, maybe only their practitioner, but the practitioner only has so much time to really be present with them. And so I think a lot of women are navigating this journey and all of the ins and outs and the fears and the unknowns on their own. And I would, I, I'm so glad you're starting to change that. And I agree. I would love to. That's why I'm glad to do this episode here with you and say, hey, if you're out there struggling with fertility and you're feeling alone, please know that Jenica and I are here for you. That, you know, that you don't it doesn't. We don't want you to have to feel alone. It. It's not essential for you to feel alone. In fact, I might argue that it might be us to be feeling so alone. It's interesting to me that it's when you shared your story that your IVF ended up being successful, because it's like, I know what I found with my migraines is I struggled with migraines for a couple decades and I didn't tell anyone I was having migraines. And it was when I started talking about the fact that I was having migraines because I was so ashamed. Right. That happens with pregnancy, too. We feel ashamed about not being able to get pregnant or losing a pregnancy. And so if we can let go of that shame and just be accepting that we're human and we're going to have these experiences as humans and we might as well be there for each other through those experiences that I actually, that's when the migraines went away, is when I started talking about them. So it's, you know, just to know that there's something about the letting go. And I actually, and I'm interested in your, in your take on this. You know, again, I mentioned my research of fear and stress in pregnancy taught me so much that it's when we are, if we have too high of cortisol and adrenaline, then labor doesn't progress well. And also if we have too little cortisol and adrenaline, labor doesn't progress well. So the message is that we need, as humans, we need an optimal amount of cortisol and adrenaline for things to go smoothly. And what I ended up finding is the same is true with fertility. If we have too high cortisol and adrenaline or too low cortisol and adrenaline because of our stress exposure, then our ovaries aren't getting the right signals and ovulation is not going to be as successful. And even with ivf, it's not going to be as successful because our system is in a stress response. And the challenge is when you're going through fertility treatments, it's stressful, right? Because you've got all these appointments and all these treatments and the timing, and it's just like it's probably one of the most stressful things I see my patients go through is fertility treatments. And so you're going through this stressful experience trying to not feel stressed because the stress ends up inhibiting your fertility. Right. So it's really a catch 22. How do you help your clients navigate that? You Know what I mean? That catch 22 of stress with fertility.

For me, I've learned so much. I think this is the best question because I think with resistance comes. You can't process it. And so I think for me, the number one thing that I would recommend both to myself, because I've experienced it myself and benefited so much from it and from anybody else that is experiencing something that is not ideal or that they wouldn't wish upon themselves is to accept it. And it's a really hard thing to do because when something is not going the way that we planned it, it's very easy to say that this should not be happening. And I wish I wasn't in this position and something's gone terribly wrong. And in doing that, we're resisting reality. And in resisting reality, you can't process it because you're not accepting what is. And so I think that it's interesting because in telling yourself that I shouldn't feel stressed all the time and I shouldn't, I shouldn't be here, it just makes you, it just amplifies it because instead of going through it, you're trying to shove it in a closet and pretend that it's not there. And so for me, just really accepting that this is my reality and although I wouldn't have chosen it, regardless, it is what it is. And I can then determine how I want to handle it by accepting it. And that can look like many different things. That one, I think that just processing through those negative emotions and realizing that all human beings experience it. I believe that we experience at least half negative emotions and half positive emotions throughout the course of our lives. And I think that as human beings were designed that way and we're supposed to feel that way. And I think that there's a lot of beauty in it as well, because you think about those times like this. This comes up for me a lot because I live in Utah and it's very cold half the year. And for me I just appreciate the summer so much because of the winter. And I compare that a lot with my emotions as well. I'm like, I, I. My life would be essentially boring. It would be very like linear flat if I didn't experience the hard times, because then I wouldn't even know what the good times or the happy times were. And so I just accepting that nothing's gone wrong and that you're a normal human being when you are experiencing sadness or pain or heartache or whatever uncomfortable emotion you technically wish you didn't have to feel, just realizing that Nothing's gone wrong. And to feel that. And I do think that's so funny that I actually didn't even think about that before. That the IVF cycle that worked was the one after we had shared. I never thought about that before until you said it. And it's so interesting too, because I feel like during the first year of experiencing those infertility treatments and them not working, I was. I didn't know the model that I coach on now. I hadn't been through life coach certification, and I genuinely thought that feeling negative emotions was bad and that I should feel happy all of the time. And when I wasn't feeling happy, that something had gone wrong and that I needed to fix it. And I would also not allow myself to process through when I was feeling sad because it's so funny looking back on it now, because it's not logical. But, like, for example, I had a really great husband. I still have him, and I had a great job. So I wasn't quote, unquote, allowed to feel these negative emotions because I had so many good things going for me. And so I think by accepting the reality of, wow, I thought this would work. I thought we'd be pregnant by now, but we aren't. This is what it is. What can I do? What can I control? And. And allowing myself to just literally be a human being, a normal human being, I think is the answer. Because I think that sometimes we have ideas in our head on what we should be like. And, and it's like no humans are supposed to feel the range of emotions. And just accepting that, I think really allows you to process through and then move through so that you're experiencing those normal emotions versus bottling up the stress and having it explode because it's not going to go anywhere unless you go through it.

I think that's such a good point. That's why we say what we resist persists. Right? If we resist it, then it's sticky. So if you feel yourself in that resistance, it's like, okay, how do I just soften around this? And. And I love how you're talking about, like, how we sometimes resist the reality we. We get. I. Sometimes that still happens to me, like, even over minor things. I'm like, I really wanted my flight to leave at 2pm and now it's delayed.

Yeah, totally.

And we're like, I knew we can get ourselves really worked up with that until we just kind of like soften around it and go, okay, I'm gonna have to accept that this is what's really happening. What can I. And then like you said, we can start to be proactive. We can start to be, go into problem solving.

And move past it. But if we, but it is, sometimes we can get ourselves caught in that, in that resistance to what the reality is really showing us. And I love how you're talking about just be human, let yourself be human. Like I think so much of the time our cultures and societies teach us to almost be superhuman. Like we're supposed to, we're supposed to be perfect. We're supposed to do it right. Every whatever right is. We're supposed to get it the first time, we're supposed to be able to get pregnant the first time. We're supposed to, you know, like, like all these supposed to's and woulda's woulda coulda showed us. And we're just holding ourselves to such a high standard, that's impossible. We're not superhuman. We're human. And as humans, as you say, we're gonna have different emotions, we're gonna have different experiences and two, and also just to be able to have some downtime and some self reflection time is not lazy, it's not a failure. Did you talk about that too with your clients? Is like how to just allow ourselves to be. Be in. In do nothing.

Yeah, I would say that honestly up until a year or two ago, I really had this perfectionist mindset where I, I knew like I grew up religious. I knew that a heavenly father or God or whatever your divine being that you believe in, I knew that I was created by him and I had some self confidence in that. But at the same time I could not wrap my mind around the fact that I, I genuinely thought that my self worth still came from achievement. And it's so interesting too as I can, as I kind of like unpack that and kind of figure out why. I think a lot of it had to do with just. I'm just kind of an anxious person, I have anxiety. And so like understanding how that affects me. I would think I was driven a lot by that. But I think that when I was listening to someone the other day talk, I went to this little women's retreat and they said you can never get enough of what you don't need. So you can be constantly seeking and seeking and seeking and trying and it will never feel like enough because you don't need it. And I think that that for me is accomplishment and tasks. And so I think that. I love what you said about kind of slowing down and giving yourself space to rest because when you do, I think you can really align with what you're supposed to be doing, doing.

And it I guess dissipates the need to achieve everything. And I think that when you're experiencing something like infertility, it can be challenging because it's something that you can't control and a lot of the things in your life you can control. And so I think that that's probably why I've really started to.

Get very serious about, well, does my achievement actually determine my self worth or doesn't it? Because I try my hardest and I still couldn't get pregnant and, and I don't believe that that's true. Right. I was like that doesn't feel true in my soul. What I've really come to believe and so questioning that and just realizing that I think that there are so many things we can't see from our human perspective and there are so many experiences that I think maybe we'll understand one day. For example, even looking back, like I mentioned at the beginning of this interview that looking back, it's very obvious that I started my blog and this platform to help women with infertility before I even experienced infertility. I had no idea, you know. And so I think for me keeping that in mind is so important and staying present is so important for me because ideally it seems like a really good idea to be able to control everything, but in reality you're just going to drive yourself crazy because you can't pop possibly control something that you don't understand fully with your limited perspective in the current moment.

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Just think that fertility really is one thing that can really make that clear to us. I love you talk about this. Because there are so many things we can control. We control when we eat, when we don't eat, when we sleep, when we don't sleep, when we work on a project or when we don't work on a project or what relationship we're in. I mean, there's so many things where we can be like, have feeling that sense of control, but when it comes to ovulation and pregnancy, it can really feel like, oh, my gosh. And that alone can trigger our anxieties and fears. Is just being like, what am I supposed to do? And we start to sometimes, I think, almost get into a battle with our own body. We kind of feel like, here I am in my head wanting to get pregnant and my body's not following my lead. And how do I reconcile that? And so, you know, I can imagine it as. And I see this with my patients as, how do we bring ourselves into alignment with our body? How do we go through this acceptance that you're talking about? Like, how do we accept ourselves as human, accept our human experience and come into more alignment to deciding, well, what can I do to help my body.

Follow my lead toward getting pregnant? What can I do to reconnect the mind and body and have them working together?

Yeah, I love that. It's so. It's interesting that you bring that up too, because I feel like for the longest time I wasn't. I was in opposition to my body. And if you think about it, it's. I mean, you're. It's really one in the same. And so of course, when you're feeling, like, mentally, okay, my body's not functioning, you're going to feel that heightened level of stress because you're fighting against you. You know, it's like, it's a. It's just an extension of you. And I just think that staying present really helps with that for me. And even with pregnancy. Right. So I'm. I'm due. I'm actually gonna have a baby next week. I'm gonna be induced on the 19th, so maybe by the time this airs. Yeah. Yeah. And so thank you. And you know, with you, with you mentioning fear around labor and pregnancy, and of course it applies to infertility and any challenging experience, I think that the answer, at least for me, is to stay in the present moment. Because right now I'm. Okay, I'm sitting in my office and I have everything under control, and I can get really wrapped up in fear because I. Because of the unknown Right. And we don't have a crystal ball and we can't see what's going to happen for sure. But staying right here right now, I think is the answer a big part of reducing stress and in realizing that you do have more control than what you think. Because right here, right now, I can control how I feel and I'm okay right now. And also looking back in the past, I can see evidence where, well, I've always been okay in the past too. Yeah, I've gone through some hard things, but I'm still here and I've survived them and I felt really hard emotions and I've survived those too. And so I can look back at it as, as evidence of my strength and say, okay, well, okay, I think I'm doing okay. I think we're all doing. I think we're all doing okay.

You know, I love what you said earlier too. It reminds me where, you know, sometimes we, we compare to someone else that we're observing and we're like, well, I should feel okay because I, because of my marriage or because of my financial status or because of what my job or you know, when we start to think, well, I shouldn't have, I shouldn't feel this way. But again, just allowing ourselves to be like, yeah, no matter what, as humans, no matter where you live or no matter your circumstance, you get to experience these human emotions and experiences and to have support through them. Tell us more, Jenica. Like when you work with your clients one on one, how does, in case someone listening is like, how does that look? What does that look like to have your support?

So some support throughout infertility or me specifically?

Yeah, for like if you're supporting a client through their infertility process.

So what I'll do and what I think a coach will do is hold space for their experience. And so someone will, for example, like on a, on a given call, say I'm doing like a one on one coaching call. Someone will tell me something that they're currently experience experiencing and we'll get very specific about that circumstance. And the crazy thing about coaching is it's basically like having a third party, non objective person see what is what you're actually creating for yourself. And so like we'll wake up in the morning for example, and I think most of us will have good intentions, right? We don't think we're self sabotaging ourselves. We have these thoughts that we think are creating the, the result that we want and yet we're, we're not getting what we want. And it's confusing to us. And so for me, what I'll do is I'll take, I'll take a look at what's happening and it always comes down to your thoughts. So you have a circumstance and the circumstance is always neutral until you have a thought about it. Because you know, we think about say for example, in the next state over there's a hurricane. Until I know that it's even a thing in a reality, I, it's neutral for me because I don't even know it exists. So that's how we know that that statement is true. And so then when I find out about it, I can think thoughts like, oh, that's horrible or that's scary or whatever it is that will allow me to feel a certain. And so a client will tell me about a certain circumstance they're experiencing. Say for example, they have a conversation with their in laws about their infertility and they feel uncomfortable about it for whatever reason. And we'll, we'll dissect why based on their thoughts. And the thoughts will always allow them to feel a certain way and then they'll act a certain way based on how they're feeling. And those will be the results that they are creating for themselves. And it's so fascinating too for me because when, for example, we'll go back to this should thought, right? I should be feeling happy. Well, when you think I should be feeling happy, it's like a judgmental thought about yourself. It seems so innocent, right? It seems like, well, yeah, I should be happy, so that'll create happiness for me. But you break it down and you say, well, how do I feel when I think that? When I think that thought feels very critical and judgmental. So I feel maybe shame or I feel guilty and, and from that feeling, I'm creating things that have nothing to do with actually feeling a different way or a better way. And so basically what I'll do is help them see what they're actually creating for themselves. Which is super eye opening because again, like I said, we're, we don't wake up and think I'm going to self sabotage myself and I'm going to, you know, try to think this thought. That's not going to get me where I want to go. Most of us think we're doing the best. Well, we are doing the best we can. But most of us think that what we're doing is creating results and we're confused as to why they're not creating. So I help them see what they're actually creating. And then we can change that based on that new perspective if they want.

Yeah, so I hear you connecting what our. What our thoughts are, how those thoughts can lead to feelings, and those feelings can manifest in our reality. Right. So if we. If we bring more awareness to that, we can start to catch ourselves.

Right.

Because so much of the time we. We do this day in and day out quickly, we were not aware or conscious of. And we're just looking at our reality going, this is not what I wanted. This is not how I want to feel. Right. And we might even be finding ourselves feeling more, you know, say, depression or anxiety because it's. But we're, like, confused about why that is. And it sounds like what you really guide people to do is. Is just sort of slow down enough and pay attention to say, oh, what. What was the thing that triggered that thought to begin with, that set it into that domino effect that led to the outcome that you're experiencing, Right?

Yeah, exactly.

It's so.

It's just like eye opening. And I love listening to other people be coached, too. I'm actually a part of a coaching program where I'm a member, and it's just like. It's so fascinating. And I feel like it's one of those things where it's like brushing your teeth. You don't brush your teeth once and you're done. You need to continue to practice and see what you're creating for yourself. And I continue to feel more empowered as I continue to do that. And it's just a really cool thing to be. To realize how much power we actually have over creating whatever we want in our lives.

It's really. It really is. And then what happens is sometimes once we realize that, we're like. We realize how much power we have, and it's almost scary. We're like, oh, my gosh, if I have this much ability to create my. What's going on in my life, what do I want? Right. We have to kind of sit with, what do I really want in my life?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's good, like you said earlier, just take that time for reflection and rest and to realize that for me, comparison is not helpful and to really look internally for what we want in our lives versus externally, because there's a lot of really amazing things to choose from. And I think that. That honestly, as women, this is kind of like on a little tangent, but I think as women, that's what our challenges these days, at least here in America, for most of us, is that the opportunities are so Endless. That it is hard to narrow down what we want to create because we could do anything.

Yeah, it is. And then we. We have to really know for ourselves, because otherwise sometimes we find ourselves in our lives at some point going, oh, my gosh, why did I choose this? Or, this isn't really what I wanted. And then we. We need. We then need to kind of have that courage to shift it and choose differently. Right. So wherever you are right now, whatever you. Wherever you are in your life, you might be. Like, when you have a moment of reflection, you'd be like, oh, my gosh, this is. This isn't exactly what I really wanted to create. Now, what do I. How do I want to do this differently? To then shift it and to know that that's possible, that it's. It's never stuck the way it is.

Yeah. I love that. And I also think that that in doing that, it's very courageous and very brave because oftentimes the place that we're in is a good place. It's not like we're like in this bad, terrible nightmare we've created for ourselves. It's like, this isn't too bad, you know, And I'm pretty comfortable here. And I. So I think that being brave in choosing maybe a more uncomfortable path that is going to get us where we feel really aligned is. Is the next step.

And I'm just realizing how much this is reflected in the concept of fertility and pregnancy. Because, of course, with fertility and pregnancy, it's all about creating a new life, a real new life. Sometimes it's as we're creating the possibility for a new life as a baby, we're also creating a new life for ourselves.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's so interesting, too. It's. It's. I think it's being very aware that when you feel uncomfortable, it's not necessarily that something's gone wrong. And I feel like, honestly, at this stage in my life, I feel like most of the time it typically means that I'm on the right path when I'm feeling uncomfortable because it's something that is expanding me and growing me.

Yeah. It's like we're. Well, we get so familiar with. With the current state of things. You know, it feels so familiar that when we do something outside of that box, right. It feels. It's like, oh, wait a minute. This feels a little uncomfortable, a little challenging, a little unfamiliar, even sometimes little changes we make. Right. Even a dietary change or, oh, I'm gonna go to bed earlier, or I'm gonna, you know, Change my job or my hours or. Right. Like these even small tweaks can feel very unfamiliar and uncomfortable at first. But then we, if we know, oh, this is going to get me to where I want to go, we can get through those changes and then realize, oh, wow, it's. It was uncomfortable because I. It was actually. Yeah, like the expansion and the shift that I needed to get myself where I want to go.

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly with that. I think that something that helps me in being brave enough to want to continue to grow is realizing that either way it's uncomfortable. So staying on, staying stagnant, staying here, that's not very fulfilling and comfortable. So I could choose this discomfort or I can choose the discomfort of growing. And like you said, getting to where you want to go through that discomfort versus staying stuck and realizing that even though it feels comfortable here, it's, it's like, well, it's also uncomfortable to stay stuck and stay like the same. And so I think that's what helps me to decide because otherwise we're like, why? What's the point? You know? But I think we realize it's not a hundred percent happy and comfortable even here. Then we can take that next step because we know we'll get some benefit for our future self.

Yeah. One of the first sentences in, in the, in my master stress book is if you're feeling uncomfortable and in pain emotionally or physically in your life, right? Like, if you're starting to just be like, this is not comfortable anymore or it's actually this uncomfortable or even painful, then it's like, okay, then that sometimes is the push we need to create change. And, and that's the thing with like, what you went through with, I mean, with the ivf, you actually experienced a pregnancy loss. And sometimes it is when we experience loss that we, we get that uncomfortable that we're like, I need to do something different here.

Yeah, exactly.

Do you find that for other women that it's. Because, I mean, with fertility, sometimes there is loss that happens and that can be really tough.

Yeah, absolutely. But I think that just remembering that concept that either way it's uncomfortable if you didn't try, you would always wonder, well, what would have happened had I tried? And so that's also really painful as well. And so just like you had mentioned, choosing the pain that will allow you to grow versus the pain that keeps you stuck. And either way it's uncomfortable. It's just part of being a human being. I truly believe it's 50, 50 in any experience, you're going to have half of it be hard and uncomfortable and half of it be joyful. And so I think that when you realize that it's not like you're leaving behind this perfectly comfortable life, you are still feeling 50, 50, even now. And so with that concept, it allows me to say, well, might as well move forward, because it's going to be 50, 50 either way.

You know, I love it. I love it. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for joining me, Jenica. This is so great to be able to have this conversation. I think for anyone, and especially women who are somewhere in the fertility or infertility process and navigating that, you know, difficult path and knowing that it really. What I'm getting from you and from this conversation is that even those difficult paths of fertility issues can give us such an opportunity for transformation for ourselves and our lives. And that's a beautiful thing that you're helping people to realize that.

Thank you. Well, I appreciate all the work that you're doing as well. I just feel like it's. It's very valuable to communicate with people that they're doing just fine and that. That I think that we're all doing a lot better than we think. And we're is. And I think when we don't think that, it's because we're resisting the reality of what it is just to be a human being. So thank you so much for all your work and for having me on the podcast today.

You're welcome. How can. How should people be in touch with you? And. And also now I'm excited to see this new baby that's coming soon.

Yeah.

So they can reach me on Instagram. So I post a lot on there. It's my first and last name, Jennica Parcel, which is spelled J, E, N, I, C, A P, A, R, C E, L, L. And then Fearless Infertility is my podcast on all podcast platforms.

And also your website, Right. If you're listening to fertility.com.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I guess so. I mean, I have a few websites I would say go to Jenica Parcell's Instagram and everything is linked there. But a sliceofstyle.com is my original blog that I still post on, and a lot of my original infertility content's on there. So if you wanted to read those letters to our future child or the IVF cycle that was successful, all those are still up and available.

Wow. What an inspiration. Thanks again and thanks for being so brave to share your story and to follow this path of helping to shift the way that women are supported through fertility. So thank you again for that.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I was happy to be here. I appreciate you having me on.

You're welcome. And good luck with the new baby.

Thank you. I'm excited.

All right, take care.

Okay. All right, bye.

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