Finding Your Way Through Stress With Jiu Jitsu with Steven Kasten | How Humans Heal Podcast

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Hi and welcome. I'm excited to introduce you to Steve Kastin today. He is the owner and head instructor at 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu on Long island. And I just am so excited to have him share today about what he does and just his inspiration and passion for not only Jiu jitsu, but also just mindfulness in general. So thank you so much for joining me, Steve. I'm glad you're here with me, of course.

Thanks so much for having me. Looking forward to the conversation for sure.

What led you down this path in your life?

Kind of a long story, but I'll try and, like, keep it brief. My parents put me in martial arts at a pretty young age. I started around four or five years old.

I guess they just saw in my attitude that I wasn't really a people person, and team sports just kind of seemed to be something that they didn't think I was ready for. So a family member of mine was. Was training at the time. So I got thrown into, you know, a local karate school. And, I mean, I wound up doing that for maybe like, 10, 15 years before I started teaching. And, you know, slowly but surely, I kind of came to this decision that there was no other alternative route for me. Oddly, at a young age, I just knew that this is what I was going to do with my life and that, you know, when it came to college conversation or it was like, nope, nope, there's no other option. This is it. This is going to be my path. And then I got into my first school at 19 years old. So it's been 10 years since then, and we have definitely gone through quite a transformation as far as, you know, as far as different partners or the branding of the school and really just trying to come into my own, which I think was probably a majority of my struggle, is coming in at such a young age and not quite knowing who I am and how I want to express myself in the world and through martial arts and the kind of clients that I want to have. So I'd say the last 10 years was. Was definitely that journey. And, you know, now bringing Tenth Planet to. And Tenth Planet is a.

Global franchise, so we are. I would. If you talk to the Jiu Jitsu community, you could definitely get the vibe that we're the black sheep of the Jiu Jitsu community, which is great for me because I've been the black sheep my entire life, so I'm used to it. Yeah.

But essentially what makes us different than other Jiu Jitsu schools is that a traditional form of Jiu jitsu wears a uniform that kind of looks a little bit like a bathrobe. You wear your belt, and it follows a lot more traditions that have been built over the years versus 10th planet is kind of like this. This new school version of it, where there are no uniforms. You can come to class in, like shorts and a T shirt.

Typically wear something like a rash guard, which is like a, like an under armour shirt, you know, tight fitting. But.

It'S interesting because we're kind of at the forefront of the evolution of the art itself. And.

For me, it allowed a lot more expression to who I am rather than be stuck in these rigid lines of the traditional aspect of the art. So it definitely, for me, as an owner and a martial artist in general, gave me a lot more freedom to express. For sure.

Well, I could see that a lot of people may be looking for that, and I could see how that would be kind of at the forefront, you know, more if someone was looking into training in martial arts that might be appealing to them. Like, it feels like, oh, I could see myself coming into that and, and practicing that. I mean, for those who may not be as aware of Jiu jitsu, how does it fit in the realm of other types of martial arts? You mentioned karate is where you started.

Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, jiu jitsu's definitely gotten more popular with the rise of mixed martial arts like MMA on television, because it's just.

You know, as far as the effectiveness goes, you know, when martial arts was really brought into the country, maybe what, early 80s, and when all these kung fu flicks started coming out. And at that time, you know, everyone wanted to be a kung fu person or a kung fu practitioner. And then slowly over, over the years, like, we started to see through, you know, promoting these new martial arts and trying to figure out which one was the most effective, you know, it was a very slow process of elimination. And I think the hype and the culture of, of what was brought in, whether through movies or whatever it may be.

Kind of like distorted what really worked and what didn't work. And now with the rise of organizations like UFC and bringing a more realistic aspect into what martial arts is about, it really narrowed. It narrowed down because there's hundreds of styles of martial arts and their origins just they date back for so long and like, for example, like something like Shaolin Kung fu, you know, was originally meant for like, entertainment purposes, you know, for like a, like a king or, you know, a crowd of like royal family. And slowly, like, it evolves into a very watered down version of what it used to be. Right? So UC martial arts schools are a dime a dozen. They're on every street corner, which, granted, however anybody chooses to make their money, I don't care what style of martial arts it is. Martial arts is great for people in general. So whether it works or it doesn't work, it's better than nothing, right? So just getting your body moving and having some sort of routine is great for people. So. But I think jiu jitsu really integrates into the other martial arts because not only does it work, but it works because of the process that you have to go through in order to become effective at the techniques. And believe it or not, someone could go from white to black belt and never be hands on with another body. And that's quite scary because if you were to ever come into a real life stressful situation where you're forced to handle yourself, a lot of people wouldn't be able to do it. But jiu jitsu just, it doesn't open up the doors in that way. And you have to participate and you have to put in the effort and the discipline and, you know, everything else that comes along with it. And just the.

Just how the art is performed and the ideas that it's built upon doesn't leave any room for.

For it to become like a kung fu that becomes extremely watered down. You can kind of identify people who are not proper practitioners right away, as opposed to maybe, you know, someone throws some kicks and punches in the air and you're like, oh, wow, you know, that person might know what they're doing. You know, it doesn't quite work that way for jiu jitsu, the person has to participate in order to really portray their skills in a sense. So, yeah, it's definitely taken forefront not only for sport reasons, but just because of its effectiveness, for sure.

Well, and that's the thing is that I think a lot of times people think of martial arts as for self defense, and certainly it could function that way. But from what I've learned, especially about jiu jitsu, is it seems that it's so much more than just self defense. It's like you mentioned, it becomes part of exercise and a daily routine or weekly routine that becomes part of a person's lifestyle. And maybe I especially like the idea of how it could be a practice of mindfulness, which I think people do find with other forms of exercise, too. There are studies on how exercise in general reduces stress and helps with our mood and so on. But tell us more about how jiu jitsu serves that sort of role beyond self defense.

Right. Well, I think one of the first things for me, my clients tend to be between the ages of 20 to.

50, is really, like, the most popular, and 99% of them are male. So one of the biggest things that I see is.

People are a little intimidated to try and start this, like, this journey of moving their body again and trying to better themselves alone in the gym is a little difficult, and they want to learn something and feel like there's some sort of guidance. And it's weird because.

You'D assume when you watch, like, people fight men in particular, that there is.

This primal, like, macho ness that kind of comes out. We fluff our feathers a lot. And when you see.

A person that knows in themselves that it's time to make a change in their life, but they feel vulnerable, and then they walk into a martial arts school where they're under the assumption that people are gonna judge them or they're not gonna be able to hang with the class, or they're gonna disrupt the class in some way, when really the atmosphere is the exact opposite. And how all the people in the school, they know what it's like to start this fresh, and everyone's always willing to lend a hand. So the intimidation factor tends to go away quite quickly. But.

What I see is that my role for a lot of these people that haven't moved their body in maybe 10, 15, 20 years is to reintroduce what it feels like to be in your body and do things differently than you have, and how to handle the fatigue and the mental stress of someone maybe being on top of you and trying to. Whereas essentially playing a game of pretend killing where we're trying to break each other's bones and choke each other, but after someone performs a move, there's a little tap to say, okay, we give up. And both people are smiling and laughing and saying, good job and having a good time. So again, when you describe the activity, you're like, oh, that might be a little too intense for me. But then you step into the room, and you realize that the vibe is nowhere near as you would expect it to match the actual activity itself. So what I think, going back to your question, is reintroducing people into the awareness of their body and how it feels at that time. And, and a lot of it, to be honest, is. Is guiding people through that, that sympathetic response of that flight. Like, we are fighting, right? So there's no. Yeah, there's no flighting allowed. Like, we're not running anywhere. So for a lot of people, that's like, that's, it's, it's. It's so out of the ordinary for them that you immediately see shoulders height, tight breathing through the chest, you know, crunching of the face and like, unable to relax their limbs, even as if with like, our class structure tends to be a good warmup. And then we go into technique. And then after the technique, we try and apply the technique at a realistic pace, right? And I'll find as I walk around the classroom and we're just doing technique, no one's trying to hurt anybody. We're just trying to learn some moves here. And I'll grab someone's hand and try and move it to another person's body part, but their hand is clenched and they won't let me move their arm and they're holding their breath. And I have to remind people, like, it's okay. Like, we're not, we're not hurting each other. We're not trying to like, just take a deep breath and relax and let's go through this process together. You know, me, you, and your training partner. So I think, like a lot of people, they haven't put themselves in that kind of position, which is, I get, is uncomfortable. But this beginning process of coming into that fight or flight response, that may have been.

Honestly, most people, whether it was them sitting in traffic on the way over, or.

Their heightened conversation with their significant other or whatever it may be, they might be in this fight or flight response for their entire day. And then they, then they come to jiu jitsu and they're like, okay, I'm at my peak stress level. Let me try and get choked by somebody, right? So for me to see somebody that's already.

At their limit and then have to walk them back down so that they can handle the process of.

Having an attacking opponent on them. So in a sense, I almost try and bring people down a notch so they're ready to receive what it is that they are signing up for, in a sense, sense. So that beginning process is really, it's gentle and there I feel like I have to go about it in a very methodical way, which is great because I don't know if you're familiar, but Jiu Jitsu means the gentle art. And you know, a common theme in every class is how can we take the path of least resistance? Right? So when I go and grab that person's arm and I try and move it and they won't even let their arm move, to me, that's a sign that there is a heightened emotional response and a certain sort of stress level that we have to manage and we have to learn how to control and work through. And that's a very normal conversation for us to have in our fundamental classes because these are all beginners. And the sooner we can relax ourselves and be able to absorb information, the better we can apply the techniques that it is we're trying to teach. So for me, it's not about putting on some heavy metal music and amping everybody up. It's more about coming into how I'm feeling at this moment, relax, put myself in a state of, of learning and not a fight or flight response.

So I think to your point on mindfulness in the beginning, that is definitely a big focus that we do in our classes.

Well, and it's, I mean, this is so interesting to me because of my background researching stress and helping patients with stress in their day to day life. And it definitely sounds like, you know, a big piece of this is your, there's this, there is this psychology, but even beyond psychology is this mind body, like helping people to really master stress and master how they're like, first of all, they have to have a clear intention. My intention is to learn Jiu Jitsu techniques. My intention is not to be trying to harm this other person necessarily. I'm trying to learn the techniques in case I needed them in the future. But you have to have that clear intention. And it's also such a microcosm of how to master stress. I mean, if you can master stress in that situation, it seems to me it would help us master stress in other situations in our life. Because so often we can feel that fight or flight. We can feel the heart racing and mind racing. And like you said, it could just be that we're in traffic and we feel that activation happen. But if a person could then say, oh, what do I do in Jiu jitsu? What did Steve tell me? Okay, he says, you know, take a breath recenter and like come at this from a perspective with a perspective of intention, clear intention and not, you know, coming from this, you know, stressed mode. And it's. It's so interesting. What I also hear is how much more effective we can be when we've mastered our stress response like that. You know, we can be so much. We can be.

In touch with our own bodies and minds, you know, what's going on in ourselves and in connection with another person so much more successfully when we've mastered that initial stress response.

For sure, for sure. And I think to relate to that, seeing people that are new and partnering with somebody else that may be more advanced, there's. There's a clear distinction just through how.

The communication goes between the two people or the body language of the two people. Some people, they come in and they're not stressed at all, and they ask a lot of questions, and they are immediately in this growth mindset. But then I tend to find further down the road that they already have a lot of healthy habits outside of the classroom that are set in place. So they almost have a foundation to allow them to handle this sort of activity that may be high stress. Right.

Or I see people over the years that through, as you were mentioning, through the practice of martial arts, be able to apply this sort of stress management skill built through this practice, and apply it, whether it be driving, you know, me gripping this wheel this much tighter may not effectively help me turn the car, right? So it's just a physical response to an emotional battle that might be going on inwardly, right? So.

Being that jiu jitsu has to be done from the most technical standpoint, but we stand in the way of a wall, of an emotional response, it blocks our ability to perform the moves effectively. And just because you move faster and you're stronger and it's more intense and you make the match more physical, doesn't necessarily mean that your jiu jitsu is going to be better, right? So back to our idea of taking this path of least resistance through chaos, right? Which is the nature of.

It's the yin and the Yang, right? So we're in this constant fluctuation and balance of these two energies. And I think jiu jitsu is just an amazing representation of that. Because if you're too Yang and don't find this inward stillness and practice, you know, whether it be martial arts or whatever it may be in this more yin fashion, I tend to see a lot of burnout, especially because men are just. They think more is better. They think if, you know, I train longer hours, it'll benefit me more if I try harder, it'll Benefit me more. You know, there's this great saying that gets run around in jiu jitsu, like.

Something about sleeping in because your opponent is training while you're sleeping. And in fact I love sleep. So for me, I try not to push that kind of mentality on my students because.

This is a practice of longevity for me and a practice of bringing balance not only in my training, but in my daily life as well. So.

Yeah, I just feel there's a, is a weird paradox because the nature of the activity is quite intense. Right. So it does take a decent amount of time and training and attention inwardly to not let that external environment play too much of a role on your inward environment. And I think just that practice in itself of putting yourself in a stressful situation, learning how to absorb the stress and internalize it and then react in a more maybe more graceful way.

Doing that in the classroom over and over and over again. And then all of a sudden you find yourselves in situations outside of the classroom and you very easily can now practice what you've done in the classroom, in your relationships, at your job, you know, with your external duties and all sorts of things.

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Yeah, that's so that that in that way it almost is like a meditation. So often I'm looking for, you know, ways that we almost enter a meditative state even when we're in an activity or movement. You know, meditation doesn't, A lot of times people think it's when you're only when you're sitting still. But it can be when you're in a movement and it sounds like you know when you're in basically when you're focused in a zone, and, you know, you're practicing this, you know, paying attention to what's coming up in your mind and your emotions and then figuring out how to respond to that and work with that, that's, you know, that I think would be essentially like a meditation. And I know in addition to being a black belt in jiu jitsu, you also practice yoga and mindfulness. Tell us a little bit more how this spills over into the rest of your life.

Okay. Well, it's weird because at a very young age, I would say maybe 10, 11, as I mentioned, I was training a much more traditional style of martial arts. And.

With the tradition has come many good things, like an inward practice. And I was introduced to tai chi and qigong at a very, very young age. So it fascinated me that there was something internal that I couldn't see, but intuitively I knew was there and could feel but would never be able to express because it wasn't within the dimensions of this 3D reality that we're living in. Right. So to kind of feel that and go through that process, since I'm a child and, you know, I've had experiences. I was just talking to my wife last night because I'm trying to come back into. And I'm going to run full circle here, but I'm trying to come back into some lucid dreaming, that abilities that I was able to do as a kid and kind of experience this.

Relationship between my thoughts and the internal reality that I would be able to create in my dreams. And then seeing and hearing from adults about this. This inward qi or this prana that resides in all of us. And 10 years later, I find myself, you know, trying to become certified in Florida for yoga practices. And really that was when I was around 19. And that's when my. I think a real meditation practice had started, because I never quite understood.

What it exactly was, as you mentioned, I thought it would be this. That I had to be still, right. And that I was supposed to effort. Use effort to wipe my mind of. Of thoughts, right? Which we know, with more effort, just kind of.

It just makes things more difficult, right? So.

That heightened state of awareness that martial arts, or maybe just a very, like a flow state in any sort of sport or movement.

Kind of puts you in this tunnel vision of exactly what's in front of you. Because if you turn and look, you know, at somebody next to you, or you think, what's for dinner tonight? Or, oh, I forgot to take out the trash, very often you're gonna Find yourself in a choke awfully quick, right? So as we get better and better at Jiu jitsu, we were able to narrow our focus on what's happening at that exact moment. And whether it be that moment be your breath or that moment be fighting off someone's hands, or that moment be using a broom to wipe the mats at the end of class, whatever that moment may be, when we can kind of take that conscious awareness and put it into whatever activity that we're trying to do, I think just brings more. More value to your life in general and depending on the circumstances, I think make that. That heightened awareness more or less difficult. So being that in jiu jitsu, the circumstances are so dire and there is a big risk for you to take your attention off, it forces people into that present moment. Now, unfortunately, there's an emotional response that comes with what they're doing as well, which makes it very hard, right? So it isn't until 2, 3, 4, 5 years, sometimes 10 years that a person may take to really be able to kind of conquer that. I hate to use the word conquer, because that implies effort, but understand the. The.

How they need to think and move and react to put themselves into that flow state in martial arts, right? Maybe something like yoga or something like an asana practice or taking a walk in like a national forest or something. Those are not stressful situations, right? So it kind of allows us to dip our toes into a more relaxed state than, say, fighting somebody would. But once you get over that initial hurdle that martial arts has to offer, it's almost like.

It'S a rough start, but once you see it, it's something you can't unsee, right? And it's what people really. And as if you look that people that have studied martial arts for a lifetime, they all come to the same conclusion, or most, or I wouldn't say all, but a lot of people come to that same conclusion that martial arts, for them has never been about beating an opponent, right? But navigating ourselves through situations in the most graceful way possible. And when we're able to do that, victory tends to be the outcome. And if it's not and you do lose, you lose with.

The mindset of, what can I pull from this experience to make me the best martial artist that I can be? Right? Not an ego response of excuses, and, well, he's stronger or X, Y and Z. That may make it harder for us to face the reality of that particular match, right? And I think just that in itself is the peak of what martial arts is really about. And it's hard to find that these days because we've gone into a spectator sport when it comes to martial arts and for entertainment purposes. And we see some of the most highly technical, skilled martial artists, you know, misrepresenting the art and not coming from a place of respect and sincerity and a place of conscious awareness, but a place of, look at me, you know, let's see how many views or how many. How much money I can make from this promotion or, you know, what kind of sponsors are gonna, you know, think I'm someone that, you know, they want on their side or, you know, there's a lot of these external motivations, and I think just. Just like anything else, you know, we all. We are all faced with this. This illusion that we have to kind of wrap our. Our head around and try and navigate through. But.

I think the. The one that martial arts brings to the table is it could. Could have extremely valuable insight if the environment and the stepping stones of that person's training are really set.

In the correct way.

Because a lot of these environments can feed the ego, especially with.

The belt ranking system of martial arts. Right. We kind of like, instill these titles upon us, you know, and this could be whether, you know, whether it's your job or your education or whatever it may be, right. And then all of a sudden, we start to identify with this imaginary.

Yes, yes. And it. And we're just, you know, trying to figure out who we are. Right. And maybe build on.

Maybe we can go into a long conversation about conditioning and all that sort of thing. But the belt systems can really.

Skew somebody's perception on how they should be acting or their mindset on their practice and actually make life a lot more difficult than it has to be. I actually gave my. My students the option to not get promoted.

Because I teach them about this and how I don't want them to identify with their rank or, you know, judge themselves because they've lost against a lower rank or, you know, think they're better than someone else because they have a higher rank, you know, so all these sorts of things could definitely get in the way. So I kind of lay it all out on the table and let people make their decisions on their own.

Yeah. And I mean, it's just, again, it amazes me of how much what you're describing, I think, can relate to, you know, people throughout their lives, you know, and we so easily can get distracted by these external labels or even a diagnosis or a title and. And feel like that's our identity. When really it's about learning ourselves from within and getting that, you know, really I want to say establishing and strengthening that connection from within ourselves and knowing ourselves. And that Jiu Jitsu gives that opportunity, you know, to then really it's a, it's a practice of getting to know yourself better and understanding what's happening within your own mind and body and actually learning to not have those external messages distract you. And you know, like, that's amazing. I mean, I think it would be something that would benefit everyone and there's not that many, you know, like you said, yes, we can go for a walk outside and we know that that's going to reduce our stress levels. But to really engage a human, because the thing we know about humans is we have a built in stress response. We have our sympathetic nervous system, we have our HPA axis triggering cortisol. I mean, that's gonna be happening for us because we're human. So how do you really get to know yourself under stress in a safe environment with people who are doing the same thing.

You know that it seems like Jiu Jitsu really offers that as a way to do it. And.

Tell us more like, where are you located? If someone's interested, how do they find out more and consider whether this is a path they'd like to consider.

We're on Long island in Hapag, right off the expressway, so we're pretty easily accessible. I believe it's exit 50.

But yeah, we cater to all ages, starting at 4 all the way up. And for me, the culture is really what's most important and the morale within the school and making sure, as I said, like we could almost.

You know, pull ourselves in a.

Into a toxic environment when.

We may go into the school where an instructor maybe projects their values that aren't in line with yours, or.

It may even be an unsafe environment. For the reasons that there's not a lot of emphasis in safety around the training class and the routine or simply the guidance and how to do moves.

It's quite a big responsibility to take your training partner's health and put it in your hands. Because doing these moves improperly can injure someone for life. So as I was mentioning before, to kind of lay a foundation and a culture that leaves no room for the ego to kind of flourish and come in contact with who you are as an individual and then use Jiu Jitsu to express that whenever it is you do find that out. If you find that out, and to have people like me and my staff, we're all on the same page. And we're all doing this inner work and we're all looking to help people along that kind of journey. So there's definitely a certain sort of.

You know, vibe that people want to be in tune with if they choose. And my school may not be the one. Right. And I let people know this off rip, like, have you seen other schools? If the answer is no, I always recommend that they go check out other schools. Because what may not be what I have to offer and my school has to offer may not be in resonance with where they're at at that particular moment. And sometimes.

You know, it's, it could make the student's life a little bit more difficult if they're not on that same wavelength.

So yeah, I feel like as long as when people come in, they're having fun and they're comfortable and we're trying to mitigate that stress response, then that's a great platform for us to start on top of. Because that kind of, it sets the tone for the training session and the long journey ahead and all the obstacles that people are going to come into. And knowing that they have a supportive environment, they have people that are well educated and looking out for their well being, that's like a, that's like a nice pillow to lay your head on, knowing you might have some nightmares along the way. Right. So.

That'S a lot for you too. I'm seeing like you've really not only mastered Jiu Jitsu, but you've mastered how to help other people master Jiu Jitsu. And that's a whole nother art.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And being that it's, it's so difficult and we're all so.

Different individually. The approach, you know, I try and keep a well grounded approach for what I know works for me. And being grounded and being in tune with your body and you know, your, how you feel and your emotions and things like that is not the manliest thing in the world. Right. So there's a big, there's a really weird stigma that I'm almost trying to break within the industry that we have to as men be and act a certain way that society labels that we have to act. Right. And being that Jiu Jitsu tends to be, or people would label one of the more macho, macho activities that a man can do, it's a weird flip for people to come into my school because they realize it's not, they don't have to uphold that.

Image that they thought they needed to uphold coming in. Right. And the people that want to maintain that image and can't handle the fact that they have to now break their walls down so they can learn, they simply don't. They don't stay students. Right. Because they're just. They're not ready for that sort of thing yet, you know, so well.

And I think that's, I mean, from, I mean, women too, but especially since we're. Since the majority of your students are men, I'm thinking that so often when men come work with me as a patient and they talk about that stress that they experience, you know, the responsibility, this sort of almost like internalized expectation that they're going to be the hero or the, you know, be able to handle anything. And it's, you know, to be able to come to grips with the fact that men are human, too, and they're, you know, at some point the body and the stress response is going to, you know, lead to various health issues or other issues if we don't also take care of ourselves. I mean, every athlete, really, the professional athletes always build in what I call stress recovery. Right. So, you know, a marathon runner is going to be taking, you know, break rest days or making sure they have water and food throughout the run, or, you know, football players, same thing. You know, they're going to be doing their recovery throughout the time of the training and in between. And. And so I think to help, you know, men and women realize that, you know, life is, you know, our daily life is the same, we need to bring in this ability to accept ourselves as we are and as we are as humans, and to accept that we need assistance and guidance and stress recovery along the way. Right?

Yeah, for sure. And I see, you know, being that we're coming from this culture of the 9 to 5 and, and quick, convenient foods that lead to inflammatory responses and more stress levels, whether it be from EMFs or.

Mental emotional stress, spiritual stress, all these different types of stresses that we're on a daily basis trying to manage. And then going into an activity like jiu jitsu may certainly set someone over their limit. Right. So there's this. And I, and I try and, like, talk to my students and have them reflect on their day and see where they're at with their sleep patterns, with how they're providing themselves, you know, nutritious food that will carry their energy levels through their activities or, you know, all the, all those sorts of things that. It's weird because you speak about them.

You can speak about them, and people will be under this impression that you're a Health freak. Meanwhile, people have just been so detached from their natural state of being that anybody that preaches, you know, organic food and eight hours of sleep, you know, I get scoffed at and laughed at when I say you should get eight hours of sleep, you know, and.

It'S become abnormal to supply our body with the care that it needs because we're in this grind culture and, you know, trying to. We're all trying to make a living, and we're coming from this place of a fear response, and we're not coming from this place of abundance. So that's a lot to manage when someone is maybe within the depths of all of that and then signs up for something like Jiu Jitsu. So for me, I'm almost trying to introduce this holistic standpoint that will make somebody Jiu Jitsu practice not only sustainable, but enjoyable for their body rather than break down their body. So introducing things that are supposed to be natural to us, like getting proper sleep and healthy organic food from good soil, and.

All the things that are supposed to be just regular parts of our lives that are no longer parts, and just kind of introducing that into the training room. So.

Now that people get excited about wanting to learn Jiu Jitsu, it's almost their segue into, you know what, like, I was really sore last time. Maybe I will get eight hours of sleep so I can perform well at class tomorrow. You know, it's not for them, it's for their Jiu Jitsu, right?

It's a motivation, though.

It's a motivation. And that's all that matters is it starts. It's that first segue into a healthier lifestyle, right? So for me, I feel more blessed that I'm able to do that kind of work then make someone a world champion fighter, right? Because that world champion fighter can still have so much inward work to do, have adrenal fatigue and lower back pain and all this other stuff that goes along with an inflammatory lifestyle or a stressful lifestyle. For me, I don't care about that person's gold medal because they're going to go home and put their head on the pillow at night and still be dissatisfied, right? So for, for me, that, that inward practice and that segue to a healthier lifestyle through Jiu Jitsu is where I'm finding, like, my, my true purpose is, is lying. And this is a relatively new, maybe within the last two years, revelation of mine. So from this point going forward, and this is something a lot of schools don't do, you know, we. A lot of schools are under the mindset of like no water breaks, you know, kind of thing. And just one example of the mindset, right. But to introduce this, this idea of balance and bring people back into themselves so that Jiu Jitsu can be a way of life, right. They can take.

The approach of least resistance. So rather than what they thought that fast, easy, fast food meal was the path of least resistance, that then led them to the doctor's office just to realize that wasn't the path of least.

Resistance, it was fast food, but it wasn't an efficient way of eating.

Yeah, right. It wasn't a balanced way of doing things. So just to bring. And for me, I come from, you know, I come from that culture where my training room was very intense as a kid. And honestly, emotionally I probably wasn't ready to handle it, but it led me into.

A lot of stressful situations and two herniated discs in my lumbar spine.

Which brought me to an all time low where I could barely walk. And that means I can't train, I can't teach, I can't manage my business and.

Function as a human.

Painful. That's so painful.

Yeah, for sure. So that was kind of like a real low point for me to where I started to think about my future and what it really meant to have a successful martial arts career. Right. And that's me training till I'm in the grave. So for me, it's, it's a journey of sustainability and, and nourishment to my outside life.

Oh my gosh. I love it, Steve. I think that people are going to be really mind blown to hear, you know, you are and you have such a, because this has been such a, a life journey for you. And as you say, it's like you didn't, you didn't just give up on Jiu Jitsu when you got injured. You're like, no, I just need to figure out how to do Jiu Jitsu differently so that I can maintain and maintain myself in the process. And here you then discovered all this new newness about Jiu Jitsu that maybe you hadn't even realized before that, you know, it's almost like the, the injury kind of opened up this whole new way of looking at him.

Yeah, absolutely. I think some of our most painful moments are the best teachers. So.

Being that, you know, we have to be in a proper place to receive the message when we do come across, and sometimes people need the message 4, 5, 6 times over before we're ready to make that move. But everyone is within their own time. So. But for me, it was.

It was now or never. You know, I had to try and get better and move forward. So I think going back to using Jiu jitsu as that analogy for what my teacher, Paul Chek, would call the pain teacher, right? And that's just all these painful experiences, whether it be physically or emotionally or, you know, financially, whatever they may be, all provide us an opportunity for growth, right? So every time you lose in a Jiu Jitsu match, like, we have a tradition of slapping hands and bumping fists, and that each time you get submitted or you lose a match, that's something you do with your partner. And for me, that is like me waking up first thing in the morning, I get a reset, right? I get to start my day brand new and determine where and who I want to be. Right? So when I lose at a jujitsu match and I slap and I bump, that's like me opening my eyes to a whole new experience that I can then reflect on what just happened to me, Right? I made a mistake and I lost. Right. And that's okay because I'm going to take an extremely valuable lesson. So when the match starts again, I'm going to implement that lesson right away. And I think that's something that is another skill in itself, and that's integrating all of these. These hard. These hard lessons through all of our paths into that next morning when you wake up, Right. And not harping on, I could have done things differently. You know, I wish I had said self talk.

And then.

Yes.

And then that just feeds into the whole rest of the day versus, hey, learning opportunity. Now let me see what I can do differently that, you know that. And it then becomes an inspiration and motivation.

Right?

Love that. I love that example of, again, how you can take Jiu jitsu and put it into your regular life to really help us be in the moment, in each moment, Right?

Absolutely. And I know we have a lot of it's a snow day today, which actually worked out great because I was just able to lay low in the house and be ready for our call. But that whole idea of.

Starting fresh each morning or that slap and that bump with each match and having this new mindset with each reset kind of reminds me of, like, if you were to build a snowman of your thoughts, right? And we start with this initial thought, and we're gonna roll it, and we're gonna collect other snow or other thoughts or create other thoughts, and at the end of all those thoughts, we have manifested a snow, but a big Snowball, right? And we're all trying to form a snowball without the actual understanding that the thoughts and the snow that we're collecting is what forms that end Snowman, right? And we all have this opportunity to determine what we want our snowman to look like, right? So if each time I lost a jujitsu, my ego spoke and I made those excuses and. And it will, and it doesn't ever really go away, but bringing ourselves into that attention, right? If I do make an excuse, rather than let that excuse cause a snowball effect of other excuses and so on and so forth, I have the opportunity to become conscious in that moment of that thought and understand that that isn't me speaking. That's my. That's my ego speaking, right? And make the differentiation of where I can stop myself from growing or build this snowman that is just terrific, right? Or to be in a pattern that will build a beautiful snowman, right? So for me, it's like even, you know, after 25 years of being on the mat, that's still a daily practice, and I think that's a daily practice that.

Everyone can have. Even if you're not doing jiu jitsu, right? But being that.

Your skill and how your matches go are much more short term, like it's laid right out in front of you, you know, so if you're gonna fix your mistakes, you're gonna see it right away, right? Versus maybe in like, everyday life. We don't realize until 10, 15 years down the road that we weren't conscious of these things that we should have been, or the communication between, you know, you and your spouse wasn't there, or, you know, you never went for that dream job that, you know, you should have went for or whatever it may be, right? But yeah, each. Each what we call a role or a match, right? Is a new opportunity for us to reset or every we wake up in the morning, is it time to reset and kind of decide that Snowman.

I love it. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for joining me, Steve. This was brilliant and I think a lot of insights here for everyone. So thank you again. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, awesome. Thanks so much for having me. It was great to see you.

Good to see you too.

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