How Dance Movement Therapy Can Help Treat Chronic Illness and Pain & Recover from Stress and Trauma

Hi and welcome to how humans heal. I'm Dr. Donnie Wilson and today I have with me Chauncey Harrison. She's a licensed creative arts therapist and movement therapist and social worker and helping people to process emotions and stress and trauma. And I'm excited to get to talk with her today. Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so, so excited to speaking. To speak with you today too.

I mean, that's pretty unique. I mean, in terms of the therapy world and all the different possible forms of therapy that are out there, I think what you do is unique. Would you say it is rather unique?

Definitely. I would say there's a lot of misconception around dance movement therapy. At times people think I'm a physical therapist.

And at times I get a lot of questions about my work, especially when I just tell people my title that I'm a dance movement therapist.

But yeah, I use this in a clinical sense as a psychotherapist and I'm really passionate about it. I think it's really important. It seems to be also why I get certain clients that really want to come work with me, for sure.

And do you find that a lot of people have a dance background are more likely to seek out you as a therapist or could be any background.

It's fun. You say that. I do work with a few professional dancers.

I also have found, though typically.

I find a really wide range, whether it's that people have a dance background, whether it's that someone comes to me because they see I'm a dance movement therapist and they don't want to do any movement with me for years, that's also okay.

Forever, because dance movement therapy also, it's part of my lens. So even when we're speaking, it's being brought in and just the noticing and awareness of the body.

The fact is, I think all therapists know that therapy is more than just the mind and speaking.

With the whole person. Yeah.

Wow. I mean, I'm sure that's part of your training as a psychotherapist, but it's a lot of times. And I think what people experience in terms of mental health support out there in general is it ends up being so focused on the mind or the. The sort of like. Right. What we're aware of in our thoughts versus what could be stored in our body. So talk us, talk to us more about that. More about this mind body connection, how you see that and, and how you see it coming up maybe with your clients.

Yeah, absolutely. And I. I should Also really clarify. It's a beautiful practice to dig into thoughts too. And it's so important and it's part of what I do in my work and it' what's so connected in the body as well.

The thing that also seems to be happening a lot is that people struggle with ruminating and these thoughts and we're getting so much information, especially with the changes in technology and we're in such an age of information, we're flooded with so much.

That I also would say inherently when you're returning to the body, it can be a practice of mindfulness in itself, of bringing you back into the present and what's really going on and tuning in because your body really does keep the score it really is holding and aware. It's where we store emotions. And so tuning into that I think can be an incredibly impactful tool for people.

An empowering tool for people to start to understand. And, and really particularly I'm thinking about working with clients who struggle with self doubt and when they have that moment of starting, you know, when they've been working on, when we've been working on this connection to the body and really starting to tune in and listen more, just bringing it. Even the awareness of feeling sensations that come up without needing to explain them or attach any other meanings to them.

It can be really empowering because it can really help bring back more clarity and connection to full integration of self.

I love that. It's just dawned on me when you, as you mentioned mindfulness, like even there the word mind is in the word. But it's like being more aware of your body creates mindfulness of your body. It almost is like. Right, it's like it should be mind body fullness or something I should add to the word. But. Right. Like it's. Yes, I know what you mean. It's like. And this, this what you're mentioning in terms of being aligned as an individual, you know, because I, I see so often that patients are. It's like you're in a battle with yourself. You know, we can, we can kind of like almost be existing separate from our body. You know, like our mind is going. And then we're angry at our body for having, let's say being in pain or having certain symptoms or you know, so it's almost like this internal battle and conflict and, and that to me is that, you know, where we're, we're not aligned with ourselves. We're not, you know, being able to get that self acceptance and I'm being able to really listen to Our body with compassion to be. And then to be able to create healing from that place. Is that what you're referring to? Is that what you find as well?

Absolutely. Well, first of all, I should say I love the new creation of the word. I think we've got to do it. We're moving mindfulness over. We're going to create some new word. And. And also. Yeah, absolutely. You're also making me think because there's so many parts of this. Right. And I'm sure you're seeing that too, in your work. If you're working with a whole human.

Is. Yeah, absolutely. There can be real disconnections in the body. There can also be a real. It can be totally radical for someone to think of just. Even my title. The fact that this type of therapy exists can be radical for people to think like, oh, your body is part of therapy. Oh, we're bringing that into the room. It's also incredibly vulnerable. And I say that as someone who has practiced this, done years of my own dance movement therapy. I'm practicing what I'm preaching. I know what it's like. It is really vulnerable. It is a different type of vulnerability. And I.

I'm saying this very generally. Typically, we've formed more unconscious ways to defend ourselves with our words. We've done that definitely with our bodies too. But it feels more exposing for many people is the experience that I'm told. And also, I mean, I've had that experience when you're including the body, when you're bringing that into the space.

So trust is so important. It's such a huge part of the work that.

I'm doing with clients. Trust first in our relationship so that we really have a therapeutic alliance and so that we can know we're entering this safe place of exploring without judgment.

It's almost like play. In fact, it made me think that, you know, as with my background in dance, so much of the time, we're. We're doing an already determined choreography or step. But I'm assuming with your work, you're more like allowing the movement to come intuitively or from within the person. Not as prescribed type of movement.

Exactly. And so actually, to your point, when you asked earlier if I work with dancers, I would say dancers sometimes have a harder time doing this because they're used to some of the prescribed movement. They're used to a certain. Not that we all don't have certain movement patterns that are really in our repertoire, that maybe we're totally unconscious of, that we go towards part of what we're doing in dance. Movement therapy is 100% play. There's a lot of play and there's a lot of therapy in play. Right. There's a lot of evidence based research on this, but bringing in some play also to expand.

The full range of what's possible. And that's huge for people. So if I'm working with a client that seeing part of their movement repertoire is that they're really quick in their movement, they're quite indirect in their movement.

And they stay in a very small, kind of really small space. The play. For once we've again established that trust the play for us to start to play with what it's like to feel bigger canisphere and expand in the space. The play of what it's like to slow the movement down, be in a more sustained place, what it's like to do direct movement. Because this impacts also a lot of our experience.

As humans and the ways that we relate to one another. If we're always relating in one movement repertoire, well, typically it's helpful to have a full range. We might not even be aware that we're just moving in that one repertoire.

Yeah. So interesting. And I, from. From being a ballroom dancer, what I notice is that one is I have this real recognition and honoring of the movements that someone created at some point in time or a group of people created the, you know, let's say the salsa. Right. Like they figured out that this is a movement that works for the human body and that people respond well to. And I, I see that there's some real truth to that, you know, that it's that there's probably certain patterns that are very healing to our nervous system. And perhaps that's where some of these dances have. Have become. You know, they've lived on for long periods of time because they are so healing to humans. I mean, we, we maybe just touch on how, how he. You know, there's so much research. Right. On how healing it is to our nervous system to move in general.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, absolutely. It's huge. I think many people can relate to the experience of whether it's. And I'll expand this past dance because that word can itself be scary to people.

Yes.

So movement, movement for many people that I work with who come in and say to me that it's one of their number one coping patterns because most humans know the experience of being in a really bad mood and going for a walk and starting to feel better or going to the gym and feeling less angry about that issue or having A little dance party in your room and realizing, oh, it's not that big of a deal, and getting a little more playful with it. And those are just some examples. I mean, most humans have had that experience, know that experience, are aware of just how therapeutic it is. I know people in my life that I. That are not my clients that. But people that I know that say to me, I don't go to therapy. The gym is my therapy.

Yeah, people say that to me all the time too. And it's. I mean, even if we look at it from fascia movement and sort of this quantum biology perspective of allowing the electrons to move and the cells to. Right. And the blood to move, and there's probably so many different levels of that, let alone a release of endorphins and neurotransmitters that comes with it too.

Absolutely. And all that to say as well. I know what it is to work with clients where stillness is really present in the movement, because stillness is movement. And what it's like when it feels really painful to move and to be there and then to maybe explore and just start to expand. It in itself is huge. You know, I mean, a lot in the. The clinical disorders we work with are very physical. Depression is really heavy. We talk to people that experience depression, they feel really heavy.

I mean, getting out of bed in the morning can be hard because for some clients I talk to, it feels like there is a weight on their chest. It's really heavy. So starting to.

Just meeting in that place, even in itself, to begin with and really meet and.

Not be alone in the experience and meet and feel understood.

And then suddenly that really can be a huge breaking point to study to starting to expand and starting to change and starting to, when it feels appropriate, bring in some more of this. This play.

You know, I love how you're really emphasizing that it's about meeting someone where they are, you know, that it's not saying, oh, you have to do this amount of movement or you have this way of movement, but it's more like, let's see where you're starting from. Be this compassionate observer. And. And then. And then just observe how it shifts as you are present and listening. See how things shift and what you're drawn to and go little by little instead of pushing anything. Because I also. I mean, there's research on this too, but I see so often that we. I mean, as humans, we're so willing to push ourselves and do more and. And. And a lot of times that's when. I mean, we can overdo it? Right. There's such a thing as. I mean, even an addiction potentially to. To movement or certain forms of exercise if it's overstimulating cortisol and dopamine levels. Right. It's like, so we can. It's about. It's not saying. It's not so black and white. It's about how do we find that, that middle zone that's just right for you at this moment.

Absolutely. And I really thank you for saying that because. Yeah, the number one thing is meeting someone where they are. I mean, in whether we're talking or moving, because both. That's. That's the most important thing. Right. And when I'm meeting someone where they are, I'm not here to fix someone. I'm not here to tell you that you're going to be pirouetting by the end of this. I would be a dance teacher if I wanted to do that. And that's a really lovely profession, but it's not what I do. It's also following what someone is bringing into the space and really watching and seeing what's appropriate for whoever I'm working with. Because you're absolutely right. There can be such an addiction to movement, too. That can be something that occurs. There can be. You know, especially I live in New York City. We know what it means to overdo it. We know what it means to overstimulate. We're very used to that in New York. I mean, I see it, I feel it myself as I'm walking down the street at times.

Yeah. It's ever present. Right. It's like. And I. And I love that you're like this. I just. Just being this. This observer model. Like, I. I find this too. Like, I. It when I. Especially with dance, when I try to remind myself, and especially if I hit a moment of.

Like, feeling frustrated or feeling anxious or feel like if I have a feeling in a process of dancing or say, feedback I'm getting from a dance teacher, I try to really notice, like, okay, what is it about that situation or that movement or that. That.

That.

What does it remind me of? And I bet that that's part of. Right, like this, these. You can get these.

Insights into a person's patterns simply by looking a little bit more closely to what's going on with their response to the movement, would you say?

Oh, absolutely. When I was working in my second year internship years ago, I was working at Bellevue at the methadone clinic, and I was working. I was a lot of licensed creative arts therapists. I Should say we work with individual clients and couples as well, but we really specialize a lot with groups, so we do a lot of group work as well. So, I mean, now I'm really working more with individuals, but I love running groups. I love working groups. And I was running a group and I was running a group on the chemical dependency outpatient program and I was working with an older man who was Caucasian, he was in his 50s. And.

He.

He started to. We were. We were doing a dance movement therapy group and he started to approach me in a way that was clear. He. He wanted to kind of slow dance. And we started to slow dance together. And as we were exploring and feeling the movement at the end of the group, he shared with me that that was the first time that he had really danced with someone since he'd been sober. And the last time that he danced when he was sober was when he was at his seventh grade dance and we were almost recreating his seventh grade dance, what he knew how to do when he had been sober and what he was repeating. So there's so much restoring movement, whether it's memories. To your point, what you're noticing in a teacher, what it brings up for you.

What you were saying earlier about certain movement patterns that have been more codified, like a salsa that can be really restorative in people's bodies, energizing or relaxing.

Lozan play us so many different roles in our life.

Amazing, isn't it? And it's. Yeah. I love hearing how you use it as a tool. So. So when people like, say someone wants. Is interested in working with you, can they do you remind me, do you do online work as well?

I do and I do dance movement therapy online. I work for a group practice called Refresh Psychotherapy that works in New York. And we work, you know, we work in person. I work in our Brooklyn office in person.

But in addition, I also work a lot with telehealth clients. And the telehealth clients that I work with, you know, sure, there's a little bit of adjustment with the camera angle so that you can really see someone. And also it's part of the creative process and what's coming up here in the collaboration.

But movement therapy is very possible.

Virtually as well. I would say I love doing it in person and I also really enjoy it virtually. But there is something, I think a little special about really being in person and having the energy of someone there with you.

And just because I know the. And maybe this is a good chance to maybe just talk About. And define, like, somatic therapy, you know, or. And. And. Or psychosomatic symptoms, you know, is that. Would you use those words to describe what you're doing?

Yeah, I. I mean, at times, I. I also am very much of a mindset, and this goes along with what we were talking about regarding meeting people where they are. I think certain diagnostic labels can be really helpful, and.

Sometimes not so much. We're just exploring and noticing, not being.

Too attached to the label.

Yeah. I think that when my belief is. And I think it's an important one that I think many psychotherapists fold, is when someone comes to me and tells me about an experience that they're having, be it a physical experience in their body or mental experience, I believe them. I believe them. So even if it is more of a psychosomatic, if they're. They have, let's say.

Gastro issue because of anxiety, which can be really common. Right. Stomach. A lot of emotions in our stomach in general.

It'S still real for the person. Doesn't mean that it's made up by any means, you know, that you're going for sure.

I just look at it as, okay, that's. It's. It's this that just shows us our mind and body are connected. It's like, that just proves it that it's, you know, you can feel your emotions on a physical level.

I love the way you say that. I say the same thing to my clients. I actually think that's an incredible skill and strength that people. And it might not always feel that way because it's causing some discomfort, but it's a reminder, like, oh, you're. You're someone that's very connected. You are connected, and you're feeling this, and it's real. Right. The stomach pain is real. Wherever the origin it comes from, it's real.

Because sometimes people are led to believe, like, oh, something's only in your head, or you're making it up, or it's not real. Right. Like, and people do hear that sometimes from practitioners. So I'm glad you're, you know, putting that straight to say, yeah, like, if you feel it or experience it, it's real. Now we want to. Because there's some part of that is just acknowledgement and validation that's so important part of the healing. Right?

Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm so glad, likewise, that you, too, are taking it. And you know it's real. We know it's real. I know that for me, I. I am very somatically in tune. And so I have Experiences of noticing sensations. And I take it as information that comes up for me.

Even when I'm working with clients. I use it as part of my clinical toolbox, is that I will get information of what's going on for me too in my body. Am I finding that I'm really tense at the end of a session? Well, unless it's something that I'm bringing in from my personal life, typically there's information in that for me.

When I was working more in inpatient psych, I, I would have the experience of having splitting headaches after leaving the room with certain clients. And it was real, it was, it was an experience of certain things that were coming up. And some of it, I mean that's part of my lens too. I use that information of what's coming up for me in a somatic countertransference is how we say it clinically. And it's just information for me of what's being induced and always checking in with. And that's why therapists of course do supervision and we love our supervisors. What's coming up that is my own and what's coming up with this client also, what's the experience that I'm having here with this client? Our bodies can tell us a lot. And even sometimes what I'll find in a session is.

If I say to a client, noticing my shoulders are really tight as we're talking about this, a client might then say, yeah, me too, I'm having that experience. What do you think that's about? Do you notice that something that happens, you know, there's so much more to explore in that in itself.

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And to your point of just the acknowledgement of it, of what is that holding? What are we looking at giving the space to acknowledge and explore that's huge.

It really is. I did a recent episode where I talked about how much I think we, we suppress our emotions. We aren't taught how to have awareness for our, our emotions and our body and, and how to just be present and, and process them or be present with them. And I think that, you know, that's, to me that's an amazing starting place for people is just to be like, hey, what am I feeling? Let me breathe through it and know that I'm going to be okay with that and that I, it's going to give me information going forward. Yeah. What do you find with that? Do you find that that's a, you think that's part of what's going on here is that people are just not as familiar with how do I feel my feelings. What, what does that look like to process emotionally?

Yeah, that's, I think you said it really beautifully. I think that is a huge, I think a huge thing for many people. To your point of. We're not taught, we're not given the space to really focus on our emotions. So, you know, it's really valid and I talk about this a lot with clients because it can be really uncomfortable to not know how you feel. It's really valid. It's really valid to not know how you feel. And so also part of what dance, movement therapy and creative arts offers is a non verbal processing. Okay. We don't have the words right now. What's the sensation? If we could put that into an image, what would it look like? Let's draw it on a piece of paper. Okay. Is there a sound that goes with it? And that can be so, you know, helpful in itself to use some of these nonverbal techniques that can then help us start to get more information about what the words are that go along with this too, what the feeling is.

Wow, that sounds so beautiful. For people to be in your presence to get, to help them, guide them, you know, guide them to understand themselves and guide them to understand these messages from within and, and just such a beautiful presence. So thank you for sharing that with us and, and, and being available to people. I'll definitely be sharing you how to reach out to you and how to contact you. I'm wondering, actually I, I didn't ask you this at the beginning, but.

Just.

Before we wrap up. What led you to choose this as your career? How did you know this was your passion to be helping people in this way?

Well, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure. I'm so passionate about this. I could Very happily. And especially hearing about your background, too, I feel like I could talk to you about this probably for several hours.

But we. I don't know if anyone would want to listen to several hours, but.

But I. I got into this. Oh, my God. My mom says that I was dancing in the womb. So I've always been someone that's loved movement. I've always found it. I always found it therapeutic. And when I was 15 years old, I was a dancer my whole life. And then when I was 15 years old, I stumbled into a yoga studio in New York City. Because I grew up in New York City. In my first class, I kind of laughed at the sounds that were made, the ohms, the postures that I didn't know, that I was just kind of clumsily following along. And then I just went back every day, and it became something that I really loved. So when I graduated college with, I did my undergrad, actually.

Focusing on languages and dance. So expression has always been at the base of my interest.

But I taught yoga for years until I found dance movement therapy. So I worked teaching yoga for five years.

In studios and with private clients. And I was seeing that I was working with clients and a lot of emotion was coming up in their bodies and what they were starting to share with me, particularly my private clients.

And it all really made sense to me. It felt like it was so clear. It was like, right there with their bodies, what they were sharing with me.

So I've always been naturally, very, very curious.

That's something I think my family really instilled in me. And so with that kind of intellectual curiosity, I was like, I know how to respond to this as a human, but I wonder if there's more that I could learn and really bring into this. And I stumbled across the description for dense movement therapy for the master's program at Pratt. And when I read the description, it sounded exactly like me. I've never had that experience. It was so cool.

You're like, this is exactly what I've been doing. I didn't know there was a name for it.

Yeah, I was so excited. Yeah. So that's how I. I fell into dance movement therapy. And it's just, you know, lifelong learner. Part of the reason that continued my evolution with doing social work as well.

Because there's a beautiful marriage in that creative arts therapists and social workers really work beautifully together. And, yeah, I'm really passionate about this. I love it. I'm so grateful it exists and that people seem to be more open and excited about it now too. Even though I say that and I acknowledge it's vulnerable.

Yeah, no, I think that's, I think even, like, you know, anytime we're kind of, I mean, even just asking for help can feel vulnerable, let alone. Yeah. Saying, hey, I wanna, I wanna hear, I wanna hear what my body's been trying to tell me, but I wasn't listening to. You know, we already have to kind of be like, okay, I'm sorry, body, that I wasn't listening. I'm listening now. And.

Right.

And then we have, we don't know what we're gonna find out. So it feels vulnerable in that way too. But I think if, you know, when you go little by little, as you've been describing, then you can pace yourself. It's not like you, you know, come out the first therapy session in shock, you know, and, and lose track of your original existence. You're. It's more like, oh, let me discover information that I can then integrate in it.

Sounds like absolutely. No, it's, it's really, again, it's, it's meeting someone where they are. Your body's gonna tell you, no. No dance movement therapist is telling someone what they should do. Right. That's not what we're here to do. Therapists aren't here to fix and say, this is what you do and now you're fixed and you're done. No, we're here and we're holding space and empowering clients to tune in and listen. And those are the tools they need. Often, you know, the coolest thing is when clients are like, I've had this in me the whole time. They just connect to it and they're like, how neat is that? And it was.

Yeah, it is, it is pretty neat because then you realize the body has so much information for us. We just have to learn how to listen and access it. And I, I, I'm enjoying how you were mentioning how you, you know, some of your original connection to this was through yoga. And what an example of, you know, a form of movement that ancient that's been used for healing not just on a physical level, but a mental, emotional level. All these. Right. I mean, tell us more like, you know, if someone's thinking, you know, should I do yoga? Is yoga a way that I can, you know, start to get this mind body connection going? What do you suggest for people related to yoga?

I would say one of the neatest parts that I've seen in the way that yoga's evolved today. Is that it? I compare it sometimes to walking into an Ice cream shop, you're not going to like every flavor, but you'll find flavors you really love. There's so many different types of yoga too. You know, there's, there's different ways to enter the practice.

Seems like in the west we really are.

Intent and interested in the physical practice and entering through that realm. And for some people, they start by entering through reading the books and.

Doing self study or meditation. But within all of these, again, there's so many different avenues so you can really find the way again that really more speaks to you, resonates with you, meets you where you are. And I think that's very true in yoga. I think it's such a beautiful practice. It's still something I, I teach just to a few private clients that I've kept for years that, you know, it's, it's a really beautiful and to me a really significant practice, which to your point of, it's such an old practice that some of these movements that we're, we're getting into some of the postures that you're moving into.

I think they, they create a space for a lot of healing and a lot of release, in my experience.

Mm. And there's a lot of research on a lot of what we've been talking about today, but including yoga and meditation, it seems like a lot of the sort of the research focus goes there and we learn a lot from that. You know, even recently I saw this study where yoga can decrease inflammation. So it's, it's like not necessarily just what you think. You know, I think a lot of people think of yoga as like flexibility and, and maybe balance and, and, you know, but if we start to realize, wow, it's not just that, it's, it's this gaining awareness for self, it's actually, actually can decrease inflammation. And of course so many mental health issues ends up are related to inflammation in the first place. Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's so much research now backing up just how impactful yoga is for health. I would also say the neat thing that we're seeing too with dance, which I love, because again, I know dance can be a scarier one to bring into this discussion because there can be a lot of associations around dance. But in dance movement therapy, the other portion too that we're seeing in research, now that we've got so many more.

Neurological research.

Experiences happening, we have a lot more proof of the mirror neurons and the impact of that, which is what dance movement therapy uses a lot in this technique called mirroring of, you know, Bringing someone else's movement into your body so that you're sharing the movement together, that's so impactful. So, I mean, yoga, dance, movement therapy, I think there's a lot where they overlap and also beautiful differences in those practices.

There are a lot of dance movement therapists who are yoga teachers, and there are a lot of yoga teachers that seem to have a dance background or a dance movement therapy background too. But I do think, to your point.

Yeah, yoga offers, offers an incredible great deal to people. And I think it can be what you want it to be. You can make it what you're looking for so that it's not like you're saying who's the most flexible or doing the gymnastics, but. Exactly. Unless that's what you want.

Yeah, yeah, there you go. Well, and this is all just reminding me, like, so, like, of, of health issues that someone might be having that might, you know, make them think, oh, should I, should I meet with Chauncey? Like, I could imagine that even say someone who might have a chronic physical condition, let's say Crohn's disease or infertility for that matter. Something where we think of it inherently on a physical. And they might be like, oh, my, I'm. I, I don't have anxiety or depression, but I have this physical issue. I could see where, you know, there may be some stored emotions or past traumas that are, that are, that are haven't been realized and maybe you could help there. But at the same time, I also hear you talking about how you help with, with depression and addiction and, you know, what we think of as more like psycho emotional health issues that could be benefited by movement. Would you. I mean, how is that a good way to describe it or tell me your thoughts on. And you know what, what would you say if someone's like, should I come. Should I schedule to meet with you if I have this health issue?

I think there's a both and that's really present. I, I think absolutely. To your point, like, do I work with more traditional.

Clinical disorders, you know, in the therapeutic realm? Yeah, absolutely. And I think within working, especially using a movement therapy lens, there might be portions present, traumas, things held in the body that maybe someone came in because they said, I think I'm depressed. And then there's a lot more that we're unpacking and we're looking at. I also think, to your point, right, we're talking about the mind body connection. So I don't know how it wouldn't impact someone if they have a chronic Illness, chronic pain, how that. That wouldn't impact someone. So. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really significant thing for someone to come in and process and explore and see if it comes up through movement and through talk, if that's what they're. They're more seeking. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, is that answering your question fully?

Yes. Yeah, it is. It's like. Yeah, just like, if you. If a person feels like maybe this is worth exploring, that thought alone says, might as well just see what comes up. And. And the thing is, like, I. And I really try to point this out in my work. It's. It's. I just think that so often in the mental health field that mostly what people hear is, oh, there's a chemical imbalance and you need this medication. And not to say that medications aren't sometimes appropriate and necessary and helpful, but just how. It's also important to know that the tools that you're offering can really help people whether they're on medications or not, would you say? And. And, you know, just opening up the possibilities for people to heal so they don't feel stuck. Because I think a lot of times, you know, chronic disease and depression is just from feeling like you have no hope and you don't know where else to turn, and you're saying, oh, my gosh, here's all. All these possibilities that likely haven't been explored.

Yes. I mean, I realize this is the hard part of being on a podcast, is I'm nodding my head vigorously as you're speaking. Yes, yes, I really.

I absolutely agree. And I think that, yeah, I think psychotropic medication is. Can be really helpful for those that are interested in using it. And also, there are other avenues. If that's not for you, if that's not what you're interested in using. I do think it's important to remember it's not a primary therapy, it's an adjunct therapy when you're doing something like that. So the importance of still exploring is real. That's huge. That's really the primary therapy, whether it's through movement therapy, talk therapy, a mix of both. But that's really significant and important. There are different offerings here. Absolutely. And there are others in my field, too. I should say, like, I work with art therapists, I work with drama therapists, music therapists. There. There are many creative arts therapists. So.

Wow. Just even knowing that the creative arts therapist field is so broad. Right. Like, you sound healing and. Right. It's like there's really in research behind all of these different techniques. To help us, help us humans. I mean, that's the thing. This, this human existence, you know, we're going to, it's a lot to understand just to, to you know, be human and to see what we see and experience what we experience. How do we, how do we sort of like integrate that and make sense of it and make sense of ourselves and, and in order to, you know, go through each next day and, and so I feel like, you know, it's to me, doing these forms of therapy become essential. You know, it's not like do if you need it or you know, do you need it? It's like, yeah, we all need guidance and support to do emotional processing is my opinion. And, and to explore different forms. Like sometimes I think people feel like, oh, I'm just doing this therapy. But I'm, I'm interested in your opinion on that. You know, just how, you know, people can explore different forms of therapy to find what might help them even in certain situations in their life or if they haven't tried it before.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that knowing your rights, knowing being informed and asking questions, of course is huge if you're interested in seeking help and you're seeking a therapist.

And I think there are so many really beautiful forms of therapy out there. I mean there's a lot that these evidence based practices which are really well researched, like cognitive behavioral therapy, many people are familiar with.

Dialectical behavioral therapy is really beautiful practice also that definitely incorporates more of that mindfulness that we've been speaking about.

More of the traditional therapies of psychoanalytic, psychodynamic. And then yeah, there's within all of these lenses as well, those are incorporated into a lot of these creative arts therapies that I'm talking about today too that I'm bringing in with dance, movement therapy, music therapy, art therapy, drama therapy.

So you can bring it in together. You can use like they were saying, sometimes you're just doing talk therapy and other times you might be using, you know, more of the movement therapy with the talk therapy. So you can, you can, it can be a blend.

Of course. Yeah. I mean I, I would say my, my lens is more of a psychodynamic, relational. I use cbt, I use DBT tools and techniques. I've done trainings in them and I come from a very trauma informed lens. So all of that is incorporated into my dance, movement therapy and what I'm doing. Because the movement therapy, I would say, is the primary lens that I'm bringing into the space. It's going to be there whether we're sitting and we're talking for years together.

Beautiful. That's so amazing. Oh my gosh. Thank you again, Chauncey, for sharing today. And I think this will really help people to understand more about therapy in general and the possibilities of, of how, you know, that there is to healing on that, that mind body connection and not just working on the mind part, but working on the body part and connecting them to really help us to heal and to, I think, to optimize our human experience.

Yeah, I really, I agree and I'm so grateful you're doing this podcast. I thank you so much for inviting me on. I love the, I love the name of the podcast in general too. Yeah, there's so many different ways that we heal Be human.

So true. Right? Oh, thank you. I appreciate your feedback and I look forward to staying in touch with you. And thank you everyone who's been listening in. I'll put Chauncey's contact information so you can reach out to her if you'd like to learn more and connect with her. And also I'd love to hear from you as always on your feedback and reviews and definitely subscribe so you can join me for the next episode of How Humans Heal. I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to How Humans Heal. If you liked this episode, leave a rating and a review. And for more resources, visit drdani.com.