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Dr. Donnie Wilson struggled for decades to solve her numerous health issues and heal her body. But with focused determination, she healed herself. And in doing so, she discovered the Dr. Donnie stress recovery Protocol. On this show, you're going to hear from doctors, nutritionists, and Experts along with Dr. Donnie, who will give practical advice and wisdom to help heal your body. This is how humans heal.

Hi and welcome to how humans heal. I'm Dr. Donnie Wilson, and today I'm so excited about this conversation with my friend and colleague, Bonnie London. She is a registered dietitian, also a clinical nutritionist and founder of London Wellness. She has been practicing in nutrition for over 30 years, and she's worked with everything from athletes, elite athletes, to hospice patients, and everything in between. And she specializes in metabol, including that belly fat that we're all trying to get rid of, and different perspectives on it, because I know we're all out there searching, trying to figure out what's going on, how to lose this weight. And so that's why I'm so excited you're here with us today. Bonnie, thank you so much.

Well, thank you so much for having me here today. I am really excited because I think what you do is it's very, very important message.

Oh, my gosh. I love that we have such parallels. And even we both were helping patients in Manhattan and New York for many years. Now you're down in Florida, but would you say you help people from all different locations?

Yes. I still primarily work local here, and I love face to face, but I do have virtual capabilities, so I do work with people. I've worked with people actually all over the world and Israel, Switzerland and everything.

Because people need help with their nutrition everywhere. And as a fellow clinical nutritionist, I love that you and I have this same passion of saying, hey, there's so much that we can do for our health through our food choices. Right. Our food can be our medicine. So tell us more of your perspective on that. Like what makes you so passionate about nutrition?

Yeah, no, absolutely. I would say that your diet and what you put in your body is the number one thing to drive your health. Honestly, though, in our modern world, over the past decades, so many things has changed as far as our exposure to toxins and things like that. So I always say when people come in, listen, this is still the foundation of proper diet, managing stress, sleep, exercise and all. However. So it's going to be the foundation, but it is not enough anymore. 1970, you could have come. You may not have needed to come and see me, but it would have been adequate if you wanted to lose that belly fat or weight, to be like, oh, I'm just going to eat less, exercise more. Back then that recommendation would have been completely fine. But now what I'm going to tell you is it is totally not enough any more, which is how I really have gotten into, over the last years, 15 years now, functional medicine, which really gets to the root cause of what's going on. So I still get many people that come to me specifically for, especially post menopause, what's going on here? The little belly fat situation. But then when they come in, they realize that you don't lose weight to get healthy. You actually must get healthy first in order to lose weight. And this is a big transition for people. So one of the things I do, and this is something I can't do at a distance, but I help people do it anyways, which is very important to me, is that I measure people's body composition. Right. So I always say, I wish we could throw out that scale. Okay. Because it really is not giving you all that information.

Deceiving. Right. We get so focused on the number.

I think, you know, growing up in the 1980s, I feel like it created more dysfunctional relationship with food than any other decade between calorie counting, chronic cardio and that stupid scale.

Yes, I completely agree, Bonnie. I got rid of my scale decades ago. I never go near it.

I never go near it either. I mean, and who cares if your pants fit? Is that all that matters? That's what I think.

The pants are a much better measure. The leans on is a much better measure than what's coming up on the number on the scale. I love that you're pointing this out because I remember when I was getting my nutrition degree, this is back even before I went to nature public medical school. I kept. We were having to crunch the numbers and be like, oh, it's calories in, calories out. Which is what you're saying that it's not so simple as calories in, calories out. And we could see that. I know I could see it back then in the 90s when I was researching this, I'm like, this doesn't work. This does this. Calories in, calories out is not working out to be the answer. It doesn't solve the issue. And yet it took decades. And then we had to go through that whole time period of time avoiding fat and fat free. And so then people were eating More carbs. And that just made it all worse.

Yes. I was a victim like everyone else, and I will share with you in your audience now. I mean, I really did struggle with my weight for a good 15, 20 years. I had PCOS, which I'm sure many people are familiar with, but it has a lot to do with insulin resistance. And guess what the worst diet might be for that. The 1980s. High carb, low fat, and then stressing ourselves out with chronic cardio. And then, and then worse. Is that when you're eating that way? Because this is what happens when people come into me and they get the opposite. Because many people are still following a lot of these recommendations. But when you're not eating fat, which is so important for hormones and protein, you're hungry and you, and you think it's some sort of deficit in your, in, in your willpower, which is, to me, this is, it is. This is why I'm so passionate about this too. Because of course I, you know, what I've gone through and what I see people every day go through. And it is just amazing because as soon as I get people to eat what your body really needs, we do. I do not count calories ever. Never. But when I get them to eat whole foods, the protein, the healthy fats, all, all of just basically going back to basics, they come back and they report the same thing. Not hungry.

Because fat is also satiating when we eat. It sends all the signals that we ate so our body knows we eat. I feel like it's such a key and it's still often missed and people often think, oh, if I'm going to increase fat, then do I have to go all the way to a keto diet? And I think we're going to. You know what, you'll probably agree with me. It doesn't necessarily have to be all the way to a keto diet. We just need to increase the fat enough to give your body the right signals.

I agree, and I don't think I am big into keto and low carb, but I don't think it's for everyone. And you don't. And I don't actually do that with everyone when they come in. So I completely agree. The main thing is for sure is any of the highly processed carbs. But we have been taught people are still so afraid of fat, of course, thinking it's going to make you fat, but also with cardiovascular vascular disease, which really has been, you know, disproved. The, the biggest danger I would, I would mention with fat, because this is research recently that has been confirmed if you are eating saturated fat, it can be dangerous if you combine it with the starchy stuff. So I say the butter is for the vegetables, not for the bread. Oh, that's a good one.

That's a good one. So, yes.

Okay.

So of course it's when you combine it with the carb.

Right. It's the devil is the detail.

Then it's. That's the problem. And it's inflammatory then in that situation and the blood sugar starts going off track. That's what's causing heart disease. Not that fat from the healthy fatty foods.

Exactly. Eating it by itself. I mean, even we know the saturated fat from dairy has actually been shown to have a positive impact on all of the lipids. So I mean, you know, it's much more. More nuanced and comp. And the other big thing I just want to mention about the 1980s was the whole idea of eating six times a day. Because that is also kind of the opposite of what I tell people to do now.

Yeah. Well, and this is the thing is that a lot of times when people are having these kind of snacks all day, they're mostly high carb snacks.

Yes. And you're thinking about food all the time. Like you're thinking constantly about food. Like, how great is it? I eat like on the weekends. I might. I do like a big frittata with everything and I might go five hours, sometimes six, you know, and it's not like I'm thinking I can't eat. I'm not thinking about food because I ate enough that you're not hungry.

But the key there too is I love that because I know for myself it took me a while to get to that place because sometimes people have all kinds of maldigestion. If we're not digesting the food and we have imbalanced bacteria, you're not going to be able to jump right into that. You're going to. Right. You're going to need to first heal your.

Yes. Because I've had people come that were vegan just as an example and very concerned about osteoporosis. And we switched the diet to be more of an omnivorous diet. But they don't have the acid to really digest the meat properly. And this has taken like 9 to 12 months and doing supplements and all kinds of stuff. So you are right. There are just many things, things that are really compromising our digestion. And like, I heard of someone today that they went from vegan to carnivore. And I'M thinking, I don't know, it just seems a little bit extreme.

And this is the thing, I think people don't often realize that as nutritionists we learn about the digestion. We probably learn more about how humans digest food than any other provider. I really think that that's something to know is that when you're talking to a nutritionist, they're probably going to talk about your digest. How well are you digesting your food? Are you absorbing your nutrients? That's just as important as getting the right nutrients, would you say?

I would say it's actually even more important and I'm so glad you brought it up because again, it's not what you're eating, it's what you are actually absorbing. Just because you're getting in, you're eating the vegetables, but maybe they're not cooked properly and they have anti nutrients in it. And so like the protein in beans, for example, a lot of the beans and the lectins, there's things in there that actually prevent you from getting the protein in it. Because another issue I have is we have all the nutrition labeling out there and it really, it doesn't really explain what's in the food, right? So if you see protein, this, I'm always talking about protein. Oh, I'm getting protein from my quinoa. I'm getting protein from this. And I'm not saying there isn't some in there, but what I always carefully explain is that what we really want to know about protein is not on the label. And that is, does it have the amount of amino acids and it is in the right ratio that your body recognizes it? And then, you know, to give an extreme example which everyone understands, like if you look on a package of broccoli, it's going to say 2 grams of protein. I'm just making this up, you know, per serving. But you know that that protein is not the same as like an egg to 2 grams. So it's just, it's just something to keep in mind because it, I think it has gotten actually with all of the labels and advertising and misinformation out there, I think people are really confused about what they should be eating, what's healthy and what's actually like protein.

It's so true. It's such a good point that it's not as it seems like, oh, I can just start adding up the grams of protein wherever it shows up. But you're saying you have to look at what is the source of the protein and not just the protein, but the amino Acids, and that's not on the label. You have to actually look deeper.

Exactly.

Someone who can help you go exactly which amino acids so that you're getting all of all of the essential amino acids for muscle building. Now back to the belly fat, because this is something that I definitely agree and that especially with menopause, perimenopause, post menopause, especially for women, but also for men, that weight around your waist. So based on kind of what we've already been talking about, what's going on there, why is the belly fat happening and how can people start to take steps to reverse it?

Well, first, what is going on here? First of all, I want to differentiate that there are different kinds of belly fat. So if you were pinching, you know, we used to hear like pinch an inch, that that's actually that fat. As far as maybe you don't like the way it looks aesthet, but I'm going to tell you that it is a healthier subcutaneous fat. Now, the dangerous fat, which we've all seen, you know, people walking around with the bellies that it looks like tight as a drum. Now that is a very dangerous fat, belly fat, otherwise known as the visceral fat of where this fat is actually going around the organs. And unfortunately for women, men never got this protection to begin with, which explains why they get much more the bare bellies. But women after menopause, particularly when they no longer have, you know, the protection of estrogen and some other changes that happen, we go away from, from actually increasing that subcutaneous fat on our hips and thighs, which is healthy, to now forming more of that belly fat. And then other factors that play a role in the belly fat, I'm sure you're aware, is stress, cortisol. And actually, as we're older, we have receptors perfectly in our belly for cortisol. Are you kidding? It's like the perfect storm.

So the stress with the stress hormone cortisol is directing any stored weight directly to your belly, basically. Oh, it's like an arrow saying all the extra weed go this way. Right, Go here.

Exactly. In case we needed it. But, but, but we don't need it. Okay, but there, but there is help for the belly fat. Like we, I mean, we can, we can totally reverse the belly fat. Is, is. Is what I am going to say. And so to me, the biggest thing is blood sugar regulation. That would be number one on the HIPAA right there. Because insulin. Well, because of course, insulin is really the gatekeeper of energy storage and it really serves A lot of people know about it relative to diabetes and that it can help keep that glucose stable. But so as insulin is up, you're going to have a difficult time, you know, lose, losing that belly fat.

Yeah. And I love that you were saying that the belly fat, you know, we get so hyper focused on it now it is important to address. So it's a good. But instead of just thinking oh it's all about the belly, we have to realize that the belly, the waist, this weight around your waist is actually the messenger of something else. And that's what you're leaning to now, right? This, it's a, it's some. It's saying hate insulin is an issue. Cortisol is an issue. Tell us, tell us more.

Yes, and actually a couple of things are going on here, very serious that I would look into is, is that many times and this is a silent, silent killer is that fatty liver which has become an epidemic. We have an epidemic of non alcoholic fatty liver disease from a lot of it is from high fructose corn syrup and all the foods but even excess bread and all of that can also trigger this. But, but this doesn't really symptoms on its own and it really can be deadly. So definitely looking at those blood markers for elevated liver enzymes and if you have belly fat, it's something you might want to also discuss with your, your doctor about that. But also we understand now that we used to think that liver, not liver, I mean that fat belly fat is just a nerd. It's just like a little extra baggage along for the ride. But guess what, we know now that it, that it is an endocrine organ. And what that means is that in and of itself it is producing all of these messengers communicating with your whole body, all these inflammatory messengers. So this, this to me, and I know it's aesthetically unpleasing, but I'm going to say it is way beyond aesthetics. And not being able to button your pants like this is to me this is serious. So but if this is what motivates people to come and talk to me, obviously I am more than happy. So the first thing is definitely cleaning up the diet. And then I really do spend quite a bit of time also addressing lifestyle. Sleep as an example. Sleep and stress kind of go hand in hand because they can both trigger again that cortisol stress response. And I really think asleep is really one of the foundations. This is where we're losing fat. This is where we are actually building.

Muscle when we're sleeping.

When you're sleeping I always tell people, and I was saying, I've worked with athletes and I've spoken like the young kids. And I always loved. I tell them, do you know what the number one sports supplement is? Parents love this. You know what it is? Sleep.

Great. And we tend to push ourselves. We tend to think we're doing nothing while we sleep. I know I was one of those people for many years. I was like, I got too much to do. I don't have time to sleep. But actually it's while we're sleeping that our metabolism's working. And yeah, there's studies that show we actually can lose weight while we sleep, but we have to get ourselves in bed and sleep, sleeping.

And it's the quality of sleep. And we realize we have so many distractions. And of course, if you're stressed, it's like, you know, the worst punishment, because that is like the hardest time to sleep, right? I mean, when you're ruminating on something during the day. So I try to help people and giving them some sort of. There's so many free resources. Just using your phone, you can listen to hypnotherapy, binaural beads, something. Don't watch the news.

That would be like that, right?

Yes, don't watch the news. And then, of course, we didn't mention this yet, but this is my thing for sure. Exercise. So there's a lot of talk, and I feel like this is coming out now about cortisol and exercising too much and that how this can really increase cortisol, which is great. Again, another relic from 1980s. Okay, now we're in menopause and we think I need to eat less and I'm gonna, I'm gonna spend hours at the gym to get rid of this. Well, it turns out that chronic cardio that we did in 1985 can really wreak havoc in these later years as we're trying to get rid of the belly fat. And so actually I, I work out way, way less. And this is the science I'm going to tell you, you know, over the last 20 plus years is, I'll give you my couple of rules here. Being a trainer for four and a half years, number one, okay, we're not training for an event, we're training for life. So it needs to be consistent and sustainable. Like, you need to only do something you're gonna be able to stick with for the rest, you know, I think that is a reasonable thing.

There's a lot of people just go, oh, it's January 1st. I'm gonna go work out for.

Exactly.

And then that's the end of it. Right. So we need something like you're saying you need something that becomes part of your routine.

Yes.

So that it. Because it's about consistent exercise.

Not exactly. Like, I'd rather people do 15 minutes a day than 90 minutes on, you know, on Sunday. I never recommend working out more than like 40, 45 minutes. I'm not kidding. I don't. I never work out longer than that.

I agree with you saying this.

Yes. And I used to work out three hours a day. Seriously. And I am leaner now, 30 years later than I was then when I struck.

So I want to point out to everybody, we're saying here is, first of all, we let you off the hook with the scale. You don't have to be weighing yourself on a scale anymore. You're done with that. You don't have to count calories. We're done with counting calories. Cross that off the list. And now we're saying don't over exercise. You just need to exercise just the right amount for your body. If you overdo it, it works against you.

Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. So I think in summary, what I am saying is we want to sleep more, eat more fat and exercise less. And I am telling you this is a formula. Now back to the exercise just for a moment. So I am big into depending. Always listen to your body. But some sort of interval training, high intensity, but alternate workouts. Because this is the deal, we need to consider for just a moment here that it is seconds on the clock. Seconds on the clock. Seriously. That we have enjoyed food security and, and, and that we don't have to be active. Right. I mean, we used to be nomads in the desert, so our bodies are still basically wired. Like we have cavemen in all of our bodies is the way I kind of think about it. Right.

Yeah.

I mean, I think we're built to be like sedentary, looking for the open sea, parking close. I mean, I, I totally guilty do this. And I know it's not just me. I feel like. And we are wired like this. Right. It makes sense. Right. But, but so we need to engage in a little trickery. So the idea is if you do the same workout every day, within a couple of weeks, your body adapts. Right. And we're trying to prevent that adaptation. And so I, So Monday is always the same workout I do, but then Tuesday is different. Wednesday. You get the idea. And this, this is so, so this has been very, very helpful. And so although exercise and so many studies, 800 studies, hasn't really directly linked, interestingly enough, directly with weight loss. And many of these, however, what it does backwards is so critical for where you lose the weight, which comes back to this belly fat then, right?

I've done a lot of detoxes over the years and many of them made me feel a lot worse. Not only that, but I've had a lot of patients come in and tell me how after doing a detox they have a stomachache and headache and they can't sleep and they're feeling anxious and I'm like, I can't just recommend that my patients do a program that's gonna make them feel worse. So I finally decided to design my own own detox program. It's a 14 day detox program that's not like other detox programs out there in several ways. One is that I'm focused on helping you to get the toxins out in a safe and effective way using nutrients, antioxidants and supporting our natural detoxification pathways in the body. Also, I'm helping you to decrease your exposure to toxins by learning the ways that you've been exposed to toxins and how to change your day to day lifestyle to decrease your toxins over time. And I'm helping you to look not just at chemical environmental toxins, but also emotional and energetic toxicity. And yes, it's possible to, to accomplish all of this in 14 days. I have so many patients who have done the 14 day detox and report back to me how much better they feel. And I think it's also because I help you to know what to eat, you are getting adequate food that tastes good, plus protein shakes that I developed that are good for your body, that your body knows how to use these nutrients and take them in and use them to help you safely detoxify without feeling worse. Also I help you to balance your blood sugar levels, get better sleep and introduce things like meditation, biofeedback and other types of stress recovery into your day to day routine. So I just am so excited about it. I want to make sure you know about this 14 day detox. I'm going to put the link, you can find it at drdani.com forward/detox-program but I'll also put the link below so you can find the 14 day detox program at Dr. Donnie.com I look forward to guiding you through this detox so that you can actually feel better on your way to better health.

So, so when you are ever working out without like you need oxygen. It's a little bit hard. Okay. This is a strong signal to your body to build more and stronger mitochondria, which are the powerhouses of the cells where we utilize oxygen, but it's also where we burn fat. So we want. These are your friends. We want more of these. Right.

So give your body some of the signaling to, say, need mitochondria, because then the mitochondria help us.

Exactly. And like, I was mentioning about the fat being an endocrine organ. Well, muscle is also an endocrine organ, and it has these positive messengers called myokines. So when. So I've done a bunch of seminars, and I always put this picture up just to think about, like, the extreme athletes, like in the Olympics, like the. The one who. Who does not the relay, the jumps over. Help me out here.

Yes.

Okay. But you know, the one that does the fast. I mean, they are muscle. Muscle. Okay. And it's not from lifting weights. It is from doing the sprint training. And then I put a picture of. Of the marathoner who looks like, very emaciated. Like, and I. I always say. I mean, I want to look like, you know, be strong and Muscle.

Yeah, the one that. Exactly. You know, that the muscle is giving you positive signals. That's where the mitochondria are, and that's where the positive longevity signals are coming from.

Yes, exactly. So to me, that's. That's one of the big belly fat tricks right there. How about that?

Well, and I think the thing is, is that so specifically for women who are Perry and postmenopausal. So here we have. This is a challenging time, because often women do struggle with getting enough sleep, because now hormones might be disrupting their sleep. They might be struggling with being, you know, getting exercise, and. And maybe they got out of the routine of exercising or trying to rebuild muscles. And sometimes it can be harder for women to. To get that muscle building happening postmenopausally. And so this is also why it's. It's like just acknowledging that and saying, okay, when that's true, it is harder. But it doesn't mean we just give up and throw in the towel. It means we need to help women to be able to sleep better and get the right amount of exercise, but not too much exercise. Right?

Yes. No, exactly. And you know what? I find the biggest thing is with women that I've worked with in their 50s and 60s, it's getting enough protein. And actually, this woman who recently, she had been working with me for three months, she initially just Wanted to lose weight for her grandson's wedding. Is 65. And she complained the first week after she left me, like, this is too much food. We lost. Okay, she didn't need to lose that much weight. Just, just to preface this, okay, she just had the belt. But she lost 13 pounds of fat and gained like 2, 3 pounds of.

Muscle by eating more.

Yes, yes, a hundred percent. But I see this all the time. Like, I can't possibly know this protein. I can't eat the, you know, whatever. I'm like.

And I think. And at first it can be scary. We hear this from your clients too, where people will be like, wait a minute, Dr. Donnie, I'm afraid to eat fat. I'm afraid to eat more protein. I'm afraid because all of that brainwashing from decades ago that we've been talking about, the brainwashing makes us think, oh, if I eat more, I'm going to gain more. But it's actually not that. It's not the way the metabolism works exactly.

It's. It's the opposite. It actually slows down. If you. And protein. Protein is amazing. I always say it's the number one macronutrient that I push. To be honest, it too, because we're so.

We don't think about it when we're hungry. We think of eating something with carbs in it.

Right.

We eat, think of chips or crackers.

It just seems easy. Like, I'm not going to go grab a hard boiled egg or whatever. I mean, I, we, you know, turkey or. Yeah, we just, we're not, we're not trained that way. But, but this is the deal with protein. A couple things here are going on. First of all, do you know we have receptors in our gut that let us know when we have had enough amino acids. Right.

And in fact give them the right signals.

Right. So in fact, I love sharing this because we have learned a tremendous amount about our weight gain of, of looking at actually how we get livestock to gain weight and what they do with cows, when they want cows to gain more weight, they decrease the amount of protein. That's what they do. Because then they gain weight. Yes, because carbs. To get the car, to get the amino acids that their body needs, they will eat more carbohydrates is what it is. They'll keep eating until they get the amino acids. Right. And so what, so what happens with people, with me, when they really, when they're eating the, the amount of protein, which I can discuss a little bit of how much, you know, people can figure out for themselves how much to get in a day. It's like, I'm not, I don't think about food. I'm not hungry anymore. So I would, I would say like there's, there's a range of protein but, but the bottom limit, no matter how tall you are, seems about 100 grams. That every woman should get at least 100 grams. And then. Yeah, and a lot of recommendations now are even, which is, this is very easy to calculate. So I'll say this is you know, like a gram per ideal body weight. So if you, if you are 5 5, it's 5 pounds. So 125 is considered like the ideal weight. So if you're 150, but you're 55, then you want to, you want to think at least 100 grams of protein. And bonus points if you can get to that 125. And not every day needs to be, you know, like picture perfect. But I find that really, that is, that is a game changer right there. And then it becomes a non discussion. The other parts of the meal, it's.

Easy because most times with protein comes some healthy fats too. And, and so I always say to myself, like, and I say to my patients, aim for protein. The other thing is, I say, I've said to myself for many years, I would say if I get that feeling like I'm hungry and maybe I feel like I want something with carbs in it. Even if I'm going to choose something with carbs, like popcorn or chips or crackers, peppers, I'm gonna make sure my rule is there has to be protein with it. Like so this way it's like they're all already like so. And I'm talking about like, I'm gonna have to have some chicken or turkey or a protein shake or something that has, you know, a good 20 grams of protein to go with it. So this way it really, it forces me to either to really rethink it and say, do I really need to eat first of all, right. Like so much of the time is do I really need to eat right now? Or maybe I need some water, maybe I need some hydration. Maybe I need to go to bed. Bed, right. Sometimes we're eating when we really should be going to sleep. And so it's a stopping enough to say what do I really need right now? And if I am going to eat, where's the protein? I love that you're saying the same thing.

That's right. And, and I love that you say it because I Actually ran a mindful eating program. And I always said my quote was if hunger isn't the problem, then food is not the answer.

Sometimes it's so simple as that.

Because the thing is, think it, think about this. We're the only animal on the planet that actually uses food as entertainment. I mean, seriously, think about it. I mean, and, and I like it. But, but, but, you know, but we need to be compassionate to ourselves. And so what I always say, like, like a big issue for many people is like that after dinner time. I mean for people, you know, we've been working hard all day, it's the first time they get to sit down and relax and this is what they do is how they relax in front of the TV and all that. So, so we really need to think about it. And maybe I'm trying to replace it with something else. It's, it can be, it can be challenging. But there's I think, a way to look at this entire thing that we're talking about here is focus on the stuff that you need to get in versus the things we're trying to not have so much of. So if you focus on getting in the protein and yes, I love vegetables, as if you focus on getting in that it's going to be less a discussion of the stuff, not so much. Right.

How does this relate in with the weight loss? The new weight loss medications, the GLP1 agonist, tell us your perspective on that. What do you see is going on here with the GLP1 agonist? And, and, and what is your perspective on how to navigate this whole trend?

Yes, great question. Because I don't think they're going away anytime soon. And I would, in my opinion, I think they can be a fantastic tool. Unfortunately though, I have seen a couple kind of tragic things happen without proper guidance and instruction because one of the biggest ways that they work obviously in helping with weight loss is suppressing the appetite and slowing gastric emptying. So some people who have been struggling with weight for a while, they're so excited that they end up just like not eating. I almost had a call. 911 Someone was in my office. She hadn't eaten, but she was so happy because it had been 10 days I've had people, they just, and, and so all of the reports out there of the major amount of muscle, the Ozempic phase, quote unquote and all of that. Well, the thing is this can absolutely happen with any extreme diet when you're not giving nutrients. But what I can tell you, because again, I measure As I mentioned, and I have a sophisticated device in my office and I measure people's body composition. So when, when even if they don't have a good appetite, I can get people to make sure they're eating the protein, they're doing the exercise, and then guess what? Then the majority of weight that is lost is from fat. It is not from muscle any longer. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't have to be that way. But, but my concern is, is that people can just go on the Internet now and have like a telehealth appointment and be getting prescribed some of these medications. And, and once again, I feel like, okay, they're investing all this money in this medication. I, I think this is an opportunity. It's an opportunity where maybe you weren't able to listen to what I was telling you before, but you can listen to me now. And I, and I appreciate that. But unless you're planning on staying on these medications for, you know, the long term, I think, you know, you really need to get professional guidance so that you can really get those habits in place. And then what the research shows is that first of all, without guidance, it's like 60, 70% of the weight gets gained back. They gain back the weight weight. And with guidance, people can actually go on to continue to lose weight.

Okay, even off the medication. So that's the key is it's not. We don't want to just become reliant on a, on a weight loss medication. What we want to do is use it as an opportunity to implement these strategies and get really good at choosing protein, choosing healthy fats, eating in a way that works for your physiology, sleeping and exercising in a way that works for your body so that when you, you, so that you can come off the GLP1 agonist medication and still, like you're saying, still either maintain or even go to a healthier weight without the medications going forward that would be the optimal.

This is, I mean, this is what everyone wants. I believe this is what people want when they initially. But they're, they're not told the whole story. And there are so many numbers out there about what's actually happening. I'm talking specifically about people who are on it for just a short period of time now. I mean, the people are prescribed it for diabetes and you know, that's different because they're on it for life. Of course, it still would serve them well to get professional guidance. So I did have someone who actually, I'll share the story. She came to see me for quite a while. Before going on the medication and she, she was, she struggled. She was close to £300. Pounds. And but after. So she was like perfect because when she went on the medication, she was able to listen to everything I said. It wasn't just her appetite. She, she started exercising, she started prioritizing sleep. And she lost a hundred pounds. And she lost it all. Like, not all of it, but I would say close to 90% of it was all from fat. I mean, and she was just slow, like totally stoked.

And then she was able to maintain. Because that's the thing, we want to maintain it. You don't want to go through all that effort and right back again.

Exactly. No. And I mean, no. To me, it, it was terrible. I had this woman who came to see me after she had the, she'd been on the medication for a while and then she came to see me because she had stalled. And I measured her on my machine and she was 50% body fat. And so what I was explaining to her was is it wasn't so much like she has so much fat on her body. It was because she had lost so much muscle. It was the percentage. But that was a hard conversation. It was still like a hard like realization of what had happened. But this doesn't have to happen.

Let's prevent that. Let's help you to maintain and even build your muscles.

Yeah, it's definitely, it definitely does not have to happen. And for people who, who need help, who can afford to do it. I am, I am all in. I just, I just feel that I, I feel that there, there is a need there, there's a gap there that needs to be felt.

Absolutely. And there's ways as well that we can stimulate the same GLP1 effects without using a medication. Right. Maybe you can tell us some of what you, you suggest for people when you're like, hey, you can, we can get some of this without taking the medication.

Well, guess what I tell people when they come back after eating all that protein. I'm like, that is nature's GLP for real. That, that to me is, is a big one. And then actually I got introduced to. There's some, there's a, a new sugar alternative out there. Have you heard of Alula?

Yes.

Okay. So, so actually I got introduced to this, this company that actually sells it called Rx Sugar. And the research behind it is very compelling because as opposed to the other non nutritive sweeteners like Stevia Monk fruit, which seem to be like, okay to have, this one actually has an Impact of like a short acting like on those glp, like after, like with every, every meal. You've heard about this and also lowering insulin. So I have everyone use it using Rx sugar at every meal. It tastes sweet. No one wants to hurt me like because when I tell them to. Apple cider vinegar, which is another thing, which is helpful, slows down. They want to kill me, come back. So this is much better.

So you can use the Ilose and it gives you something sweet, but it also helps, helps give the right signals to your insulin and your. Because the GLP1, I mean it. Part of it is that it helps with the fullness signals you're feeling full. But there's so much more to it than that.

Right, Right, Exactly. And I think we're, we're still learning. I mean we're really learning about these medications really being used not for weight loss at all, but for cardiovascular disease, brain health. I think it's very exciting, to be honest. I'm, I'm excited. I'm still learning, learning myself. I mean, primarily right now, of course, because of what I do. I've been working with people who are trying to manage their weight and using that at the same time. So that's been kind of my niche with it.

Awesome. Well, it's so helpful and I'm so glad for people to know about you as a resource. I know that you're. You created a program to help people as well from online, right? Right.

Yes. So I, I have put together. It's an online program for just 12 people, for anyone who is on the, the medications. And I'm calling it the GLP Transformation Road Map.

Awesome.

And so the idea is that we're going to, we're going to weave in all of the foundations that we went over today. Obviously, you know, diet, exercise, size, all of that. But then in addition, just really personalizing it so that you can really take this with you like afterwards. Like, I don't know if you ever use with any of your people, like a constant glucose monitor as an example is one. So. So I think this can be an important tool because it can really educate someone on what foods actually trigger that, that in, you know, that, that insulin response, because it can be random.

It's so true. So many people get. So we people are like, do I really need to do this? And then I'm like, just do it for 14 days. And you're going to be so surprised. And sometimes people are just. And sometimes it's things that you're like, oh, that's Something I only have every couple days. But when you see it on the, on the monitor, the continuous glucose monitor, and it goes, it goes. Jumps up and you're like, oh, that's right when I had a half a cup of rice or that's right when I drink my coffee that has some sweetener in it, you know, you start to realize like, oh my gosh, I had no idea that's what was pushing my blood sugar up.

Right. It can be things that I would have recommended like macadamia nuts that have. That are almost pure fat that some people can have a response to. So I think, I think that that can be really helpful. So I'm really trying to add other things in there to personalize it. And then, then of course, we want to prevent the dreaded. The dreaded plateau or gaining back the weight. So, you know, I have some of the tricks I talked about today, but of course, much more in depth. You know, just absolutely sounds like essential.

I mean, really, this should be. I think anyone who's thinking of using a GLP one agonist absolutely needs to have guidance like what you're offering to get the most out of it, the most benefit and the least risk. Like, with anything. We need guidance to.

We need.

We.

And. And the truth is that in the standard medical system, if you're not working with a functional provider who's giving you guidance, you. They'll give you a prescription, but then you're on your own and you're at. And really, that's not the optimal way to use these medications for health benefits anyway. Right.

Right. And it's an investment. I mean, they're already investing is what I think. It's a decent amount of money. And then just to have like 70% of the weight come back back, I mean, you're gonna feel awful.

Well, might as well invest in it at the. And get the most out of it the first time. So I love that you're doing this and I love that you have also your book coming out. The Healthy Rebels is coming out soon. And you have the Healthy Rebels podcast as well. So anyone who is enjoying learning from Bonnie London, make sure you follow her. I'll put links with the show notes so you can find her and follow her and learn more with with her on the Healthy Rebels. Why do you call it the Healthy Rebels? I love that name, by the way.

Well, because, like, to me, in our modern world now, I feel that to. To really have, have the courage to say, I want this on the side. I'm not going to eat this like, you really were really like, rebelling against all of these recommendations from 1980. 80. And it takes, it takes a little bit of courage. And what I say it's about, it's really, it's about being, doing what is good for you, what you know is good for you in your body. Right.

And it's so important. And I love that because you're putting it back into us to be empowered, like, get the information you need to feed yourself in a way that matches your body. And we have some things that can help guide you. But also, ultimately, it's going to be individualized. Right. It's not a cookie cutter. One size fits all.

It is not. But, but the one thing we didn't mention today, if it's okay, because this really came to my mind as I was writing the book because of course I have to write recipes. Everyone wants to know what to eat. Of course. And then I realized most people are not eating at home anymore like they used to. And, and then I kind of dove into some of the research and it turns out to 55, 60% are people are getting food that is outside the home.

Like they're getting a restaurant or food delivered.

Yes, yes, exactly. And so even as much as I would tell you what healthy oils, what proteins to get and all of that, I mean, it's very, very difficult navigating when you go out to eat. So this has become like a real hotspot for me and I'm really passionate about it. And also, I'm sure you can share with your audience. I have a free guide, it's called the Dining Out Cheek Guide. And I really, you know, put together because we're not going to be perfect. I want people to be social and go out with their friends, of course, but we can make better choices. So I really try to give people a little bit of tools to help navigate because again, to me, this is, this is how we gather as humans. It's usually around food, let's face it, it right? But if we can make it better. And I, I, to, to me, that's it. So that's, that's kind of how this all, all came about.

I love it and it's so, so useful. I know so many times people say to Me, you know, Dr. Donnie, what do you order when you go out to eat? And I love when I get the chance to go out to dinner with you because you and I tend to like to eat the same things. We're like, let's go get some protein. Because we both know like that that's what we're going to need. And it's. And so if anything, listening to this podcast, I definitely encourage you to relook at what you've been eating, even look at what you ate today, look at what you ate yesterday and ask yourself, was there some protein each meal? And if not, get just to start strategizing and brainstorming. How can I bring some more protein in there? Because it's just hearing you say that over and over, Bonnie, like, I really get it. Like, that's a really important place to start. What else might you say from listening today that someone could say, okay, I'm going to, to just start with this to help me to get on this path?

Well, I could say five seconds of, you know, a suggestion just to summarize, if you did one small step, start with breakfast. That seems to be the biggest meal that people don't get enough protein in. So let me just tell you because as you're mentioning this, I'm thinking a lot of people may not know what like 30, 40 grams of protein looks like. And an egg FY only has about 6 grams of protein.

It's not going to get you.

That's going to be, it's going to be a lot of eggs. I'm just, I'm not against eggs. I'm just telling you.

Yes.

So, so breakfast, if we, we. Because imagine for most people we haven't eaten hopefully in like 12 hours, let's just say, you know, so your body actually can be recycling those proteins and it can become catabolic. So that first meal with all the research shows is really the most critical. So, okay, so what does 30 grams of protein look like? Well, if you do a whey protein shake, you're in luck because that is such high quality protein, that 20 to 30 grams. And you're going to hit that mark right there. And if, if you're going to do eggs, what I have people doing is three eggs. And I've actually had them either adding in some extra egg whites or doing it with like meat on the side. Smoked salmon or this is very creative, but it works. I have unflavored whey protein they added into scrambled eggs. And it seems to be another easy way to get that protein. So those are. Oh, and another thing I have a lot of people doing is yogurt. So if they have yogurt, it's only usually about 15 grams of protein. So I'll have them add protein to the yogurt. Now, if anyone in your audience is vegan and they're not going to eat any of the things I just mentioned. What I suggest is you can definitely do a plant based protein. However, my suggestion is this, you can get also purchase amino acids on your own separately. And if you add that because there's some limiting amino acids in there, you are going to make that plant based protein like spot on.

So that, that's such a great idea. It's such a great idea. And a lot of people need to avoid dairy. So what I'm usually doing is because they're definitely. You can get protein shakes that are dairy free but still give you that 20 to 30 grams of hydrolyzed beef. Hydrolyzed beef, that's what I've been having every day is that they call, it's often called a bone broth or hydrolyzed beef shake. And it gives you the protein without being a dairy source. And then I love this, I do this lately. I have like, I'll get a coconut yogurt and then I'll add some of the, the, the bone protein powder to the yogurt, the coconut yogurt. And it's like because you don't have to just have it in the form of a shake. Like you're saying you can add the protein or the amino acids to meal.

And then of course I would just mention, I think breakfast is like a modern day invention. In other words, like anything could be breakfast.

It could be a steak, it could.

Be salmon, you could eat tuna fish for breakfast. I mean it really, like it's really kind of our invention that it's like a different meat meal that you know.

It doesn't have to be the standard American breakfast.

I love that.

And I'm always saying that's people too. Sometimes we have it in our mind that breakfast looks like a pancake or it looks like a bowl of cereal. But it doesn't have to be. No, we can, we need to redefine. What does breakfast look like. I love this. Bonnie, oh my gosh. Thank you again so much for joining us.

Well, thank you. This, this was great.

It's so much fun to talk to you. I look forward to talking to you again soon. And I, I know that everyone, everyone's gonna have gotten so much out of this interview and this conversation. Please. I will definitely put links. So if you have questions for Bonnie, you can reach out to her and absolutely find out about, get her her dining out guide and her and learn more about her GLP1 roadmap. If that's something that you've been needing help with. So and please, if you're new to listening to How Humans Heal, I welcome you to to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. I look forward to seeing you there and hearing your questions and comments. Thanks again Bonnie for joining us today.

Thank you.

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