Osteoporosis: The Natural Approach to Good Bone Health

Hi and welcome to how humans heal. I'm Dr. Donny and today I'm really excited to introduce you to my friend and colleague, Dr. John Neustadt. Jon is also a naturopathic doctor and graduate of Bastyr University, just like me. And he is an expert in bone health and prevention of osteoporosis. In fact, he is a researcher, speaker, and author of the book fracture proof your bones a comprehensive guide to osteoporosis. And John, I'm so glad you're here with us today because I've heard you speak and I know your supplement line and your products have so much research and detail behind them and that you offer your strong bones guarantee for your supplements to help. Well, really for women, but I'm thinking this is for men as well. But I mostly think of women because I'm thinking that women from perimenopause and post menopause and throughout their life, that's when women are needing to prevent osteopenia, osteoporosis. But ultimately men also need to be protecting their bones. Right? This is not just for women.

About 80% of osteoporosis is in women and 20% of men. But it's a condition, once you get to that point where you're diagnosed with osteoporosis, like all chronic diseases, at least that I know the situation has been progressing for many years before that. In fact, if you look at the research, about 70% of all women 50 years and older have some bone loss. And I think that's probably an underestimate because what's not recognized commonly are the many drugs that we now know that are commonly prescribed, like the antidepressants, the acid blocking medications the doctors don't realize are damaging bone, are actually creating bone loss even earlier in life. So it's something that I'm. I'm passionate about, about raising awareness of and helping people to understand what they can do to maintain their bone health and improve their bone health. Because this is something that through holistic and integrative approaches, you can strengthen your bones.

It's so important. I'm so glad you're saying that. And I've been working with patients as well for over 25 years. And I see that like, I see that my patients actually have an improvement in. Not only are we preventing bone loss, but we're improving their bone density and they're staying off of the medications. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that, because the thing is that oftentimes people will go in for their DEXA scan And they identify that they have some bone loss, whether osteopenia or more extensive to the point of osteoporosis. Then the conventional approaches to prescribe these medications, and they tell us more about that, like what is the, what is the risk and downside of these medications versus taking a more holistic, naturopathic approach to your bone health.

When somebody gets a diagnosis of osteopenia or osteoporosis, it's scary. And typically when I see them the first time they've got the test results and they've been told oftentimes very forcefully by their physician, that they have to take this medication, they have to start it right now, or they're going to break a bone or even worse, they could die. Because unfortunately, if you have osteoporosis and fracture a hip, there's up to a 65% chance that you're going to be dead within a year. And in fact, globally, osteoporosis is second only to cardiovascular disease as a health risk. And every 30 seconds, somebody with osteoporosis is breaking a bone. So it's a serious condition. Absolutely. But what I like to do is just have people take a breath. Let's understand that this is very serious, but it's not an emergency. There is time to educate yourself and put together a holistic bone health plan that makes sense for you. I like to educate people about the strengths and the weaknesses, the benefits and the risks of the medication so they can make the best decision for themselves. But where I start the conversation is educating them about that bone density test, because it's a goes into a little bit of my story and my history of how I even got involved in this. This was when I was a baby doc, you know, early, about 2006. I'm seeing my patients, they're coming in, a few coming in with osteoporosis. My mother in law has osteoporosis and I'm working with them. My mother in law had her conventional MD who had her on Fosamax. I'm giving her some recommendations for diet and some dietary supplements, and I'm working with my own patients. And their bone density is going up, my mother in law's bone density is going up. So everybody's happy. Her physician was happy, she was happy, and I was happy. But then she tripped on a rug in her house and broke her hip. And I thought to myself, what? Something's wrong with this picture? Because by that objective measure, that test result, that even still today is what's almost exclusively treated and monitored is, are we moving? Are we improving that bone density test? By that measure, she should have been protected, and she wasn't. I started looking at the research and digging in to really try and understand what's going on. And what I discovered was shocking. That is known since the 1990s in the research that a bone density test predicts less than half of people with osteoporosis who will break a bone. And then in 2008, a study came out that quantified that even further and concluded that a bone density test only predicts 44% of women with osteoporosis who will fracture and only 21% of men. And in fact, every medical organization and association that's looked at the data has correctly concluded that fracture risk depends on factors largely other than bone density. But despite that, conventionally, it's that bone density test that is almost exclusively, you know, and myopically discussed and treated and tracked. And so I want to just kind of expand the conversation with patients and say, okay, take a deep breath. The bone density test is important, but it's just one small piece of a larger puzzle. And let's focus on what is most important. And that is, what does the research show can, yes, improve your bone density? That is one piece of the puzzle, as I mentioned, but most importantly shows reduces fractures in studies in clinical trials or in epidemiological research. What does the research show? And so that's where this holistic approach and the more expansive, nuanced conversation comes in, which unfortunately, conventionally trained doctors just aren't equipped to have, both with respect to their training. And this is not just my. My opinion. There have been studies that have looked at this and said, why is this condition that is so deadly and so prevalent, not just under treated, but mistreated? And the reason is, is because doctors don't understand, first of all, how to interpret necessarily the bone density test properly. And even when they do have a diagnosis of osteoporosis, they're not sure which medication to use, how to have the more nuanced and important conversations about diet and exercise and supplementation. And so that's where my book came in. And really, the passion for writing my book came in to help people understand what questions to ask their doctor. And it goes through chapter by chapter what to what to look for and what to be concerned about and how to create your own bone health program. So with respect to that bone density test and the medications, there's really only one fundamental question when it comes to osteoporosis when somebody is recommending something to, to you and that is has it been shown to reduce fractures, it really is not more complicated than that. So in the, in the, in the medications chapter in my book, the questions that I instruct people to ask of their doctors are has this medication been shown in my condition, my diagnosis and in somebody with my medical history to reduce my fractures? And I'll give you some examples. In postmenopausal osteoporosis and as a woman goes through menopause and for the 10 years after with that drop in estrogen is the fastest rate of bone loss. In postmenopausal osteoporosis, typically the first medication, the first line therapy are the oral bisphosphorates like Fosamax. I'm sure everybody's heard of it, but the research is clear that it for primary fracture prevention. That is, if you have not had an osteoporosis fracture before and you're looking to prevent your first one, it only prevents vertebral fractures. It doesn't prevent the most dangerous fracture, which are hip fractures. So why a doctor would want to prescribe something and recommend something that doesn't prevent even the most dangerous types of fractures or only prevents it one area but not the other? It's a mystery to me, but I don't think doctors really understand.

The actions and the, the benefits or the risks profiles fully of the medications that they are recommending and prescribing. Typically they're just going off of what they've been told in terms of the protocols or the recommendations from medical associations or what insurance companies are telling them to prescribe. So that's with the oral bisphosphonates, the one medication for the primary prevention of fractures. Again, if you haven't had one before with osteoporosis, you're trying to prevent it from happening. The first time that has been shown to prevent both vertebral and hip fractures is intravenous Zometa. And so if you're going to go with a medication, that's going to be the best one to do. One of the challenges with the medications is the side effects. So with the oral bisphosphonates, for example, about 80% of people discontinue them within two years because of those, those side effects. And it's just really important to get a clear picture of the benefits and risks than typically what doctors either understand or are able to describe or Discuss within a 10 to 15 minute consultation or, or doctor's appointment in a conventional setting.

So the fact is that these medications. And even then, even if a person doesn't stop because of the side effects, there's only so long that you can take the medications and then you end up, you know, so it's not like something you would take for the rest of your life or even would want to take for the rest of your life. And then when you stop, then you can have a reversal of the, of the gain. Is that right?

Correct? That. Yes, that. That is correct. And typically the recommendations now are once you stop a bisphosphate, then they put. You want to put you on a different drug. But it's unclear whether there's additional benefits necessarily from, from that. If you've already had a fracture with osteoporosis and you're trying to prevent another fracture from occurring, more of the medications are helpful. You actually do get significant fracture reduction in the spine and the hip with, with many of the medications. And if somebody's taking the medication or I'm recommending one, I typically like what are called the anabolic. So more like the Prolia or for Teo than the bisphosphonates.

Okay. And the thing is, is that a lot of times there's such a reliance on the medication and not paying attention to diet or nutrients that have also so much research behind them to protect our bones. So this is where I also know as in your expertise and what you write about in your book. I would love if you can share a little bit more just so people can get a sense of like, you know, like, okay, no matter what you decide with medications and where you are with your fracture risk, what should people be thinking about in terms of diet?

Yeah, and that's where the really understanding the research is important. And it's clear diet has a profound impact on bone health and bone strength. And a lot of people want to focus on what are my calcium foods I need to eat. But the reality is it's about a diet, overall dietary pattern. And the most consistent benefits for it with a diet have been shown with the Mediterranean dietary pattern. It's a plant forward diet. It's been studied for, you know, decades, 70, 80 years. I've never seen one negative study on it. And it's clear that the, the higher, the better the adherence, the more somebody follows that way of eating, the greater the benefits. And with respect to bone health and osteoporosis, what it shows is specifically for the, the most dangerous type of fracture, hip fractures. The Mediterranean diet is associated with a 21% reduction in hip fracture Risk. And frankly, that's better than those medications I just mentioned. And you've got to eat anyway, right? People have to eat. So you might as well be, you know, eating to promote your health and then feeding your disease. And there's ways that people can transition into eating that way. But one of the things that I notice over and over when I'm working with patients, even if they say I'm eating a great diet and they're eating lots of plants, we know that plants are healthy and they overall have a great dietary pattern. I often find that they're not getting enough protein. Even if they tell me they are. I like to quantify it because the research is quite clear now that consuming adequate amounts of protein, even just within the. The recommended daily amount, can account for 2 to 4% of bone density. A bone density test only measures the mineral component of bone, the calcium and other minerals. But min. But bone is a tissue. It's a complex tissue. It's. It's made up of other things. The other major component of bone are the proteins. The major protein, structural protein in bone is collagen. And in fact, supplementing with collagen has been shown to improve and promote bone, healthy bone density. The. But in terms of the proteins in bone, in addition to collagen, there are 180 to 200 additional proteins in bone. So you need a lot of protein to feed that tissue. And in fact, it's the minerals bind to, to the proteins, bind to the collagen like, like lights on a Christmas tree. And that's what allows the, the minerals to stay in place. It's the connective tissue, that collagen and bone, that gives bone its ultimate strength. So if you were to take a chicken bone and demineralize it, soak it in vinegar for, you know, a few days, change the vinegar, keep changing the vinegar out, it'll strip that bone of all the minerals. You can do this with a chicken bone, and it's incredibly flexible. What's left is the collagen, the protein. And you can bend it, you can, you can hit it against a wall. It will not break. It's like a rubber chicken bone. But the opposite is not true. Meaning if you were to take that collagen and remove all that collagen from the bone and have the minerals remain, it would be brittle, like a column.

Of chalk fall apart.

That's right. And so making sure you're getting the raw materials and to make enough healthy collagen and enough proteins in bone is crucial for bone health. So I like to tell people they should be consuming about 0.6 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day to get adequate protein. The US RDA for protein, as we age, that is, the amount that the government recommends is not sufficient. It's insufficient to maintain healthy bone and healthy muscle mass. And we know that strong muscle and adequate amount of muscle is crucial. 95% of fractures occur because somebody falls. You also want to have enough protein for muscles. And when you exercise to do some resistance exercise to build strong muscles and balance.

That's the other key thing that we can do on a regular basis is exercise to protect our bones, right?

That's correct. And what's interesting is you don't have to pump iron in a gym. I mean, if people love doing that, it's great. That can be intimidating for a lot of people. I don't enjoy going to a gym anymore at my age. But even things like walking. The research now is clear that it's not even 10,000 steps a day, which is circuit. Everybody's heard of that. That was created by a Japanese watch company, by the way, out of a whole cloth. They were trying to sell more watches, no data supporting them, but all you have to do is walk 7,000 to 7,500 steps a day. And that's associated with a 50 to 70% reduction in all cause mortality. And that includes dying from osteoporosis. So park a few rows further away from the door of the store, walk, go for a walk with a friend. You know, there's lots of things you can do. Gardening can be, can be great. There are just ways to work, exercise in your daily life or take classes or go to the gym.

Makes a big difference. And so, and, and as you can see from a, from a naturopathic perspective, we tend to look at things from, you know, diet and exercise and you know, even things like sleep can improve the bones, right?

Yes. So sleep not getting enough sleep is associated with poor bone density, faster bone loss, and osteopenia and osteoporosis. So that is, you know, people have insomnia. Absolutely. And in fact, interestingly, melatonin, which, you know, is involved in sleep, there's a clinical trial showing that people who take melatonin one to three milligrams per day, their bone density improves their melatonin receptors on the bone. In fact, most melatonin isn't even in the brain. It's produced by cells in the intestines. And it definitely affects bone health.

And let alone, you'd mentioned the intestines I'm thinking of the research related to the microbiome and the bones.

Yeah, there's. There's strong research now linking. Linking that. It's still a little unclear what the best. If you're going to supplement with a. A probiotic formulation that has healthy gut bacteria and try and replace it, what is best? There's. There's one. All the clinical trials so far are in animals, no human studies, and there's one with just a single strain of a probiotic, one with multiple strains. They both showed benefit. So it's still unclear. The best way, if you've got gut dysbiosis, is to work with a naturopathic doctor, work with somebody who can walk you through, you know, identifying what the problem is, getting rid of the bad bacteria, healing the gut and, and repopulating it with healthy gut bacteria and getting enough sleep, reducing stress, eating a healthy plant for diet, all help move, as you know, that microbiome back into that healthy direction. We know that when there is a problem in the gut, if there's chronic inflammation or hyperpermeable gut, that that directly damages bone and increases bone breakdown and bone loss and increases the risk for fractures. There's. There's a direct connection between the gut and, and the bone that is well documented.

Now, isn't that interesting? And even if we just think about it in terms of our ability to absorb our nutrients, because I want to now come focus in on the nutrients that we can use to support our bones. But certainly if our gut health is not. Well, we're not. It doesn't even matter what we're getting in our diet or swallowing a supplement if we can't even really get those nutrients into our bodies from our gut. Right, right.

Yeah. Making sure you absorb the nutrients is really crucial. And that's also a great segue into discussing dietary supplement formulations because unfortunately, a lot of manufacturers out there will use and put raw materials into their products that are poorly absorbed. And frankly, when it just comes to bone health, have never been shown to maintain strong bones as indicated by fewer.

Fractures, specifically the calcium. Right. Because a lot of people ask me this, John. They're always like, you know, how about this product? How about this product? And they. And there's so many different. I mean, the calcium is the same word, but it's the word that comes after the calcium that makes a difference. Right. Teach us about that so that people really understand what, what does the research say when it comes to the different kinds of calcium? And how does a person know which.

Calcium to take all calcium has to be connected to something that carries it into the body. It's not just in the, the element by itself. So there are different forms of calcium on the, on the market. Probably the most common ones are calcium carbonate and calcium citrate. The calcium carbonate requires stomach acid to break that calcium, to remove the calcium from, from the carbonate molecule. So your body can actually absorb the calcium and get it into the, into your body. Technically, you know, your intestines, it's a hollow tube that goes through your body and a nutrient isn't in your body until it's absorbed through the lining of the intestines into your bloodstream. In order for that to happen with the minerals, the minerals have to be broken away from that carrier molecule. So when somebody has a healthy stomach and they're, they're producing acid, it lowers the ph and it allows the calcium to be removed from the carbonate and be absorbed. The challenge with that occurs when somebody's stomach acid is, is low. They're not producing enough stomach acid and that makes the ph higher, it's less acidic. And that calcium then doesn't break apart and you can't absorb it. And that happens more frequently as people get older. As people get older, they're more likely to produce less stomach acid for various reasons, just the aging process alone, but also because if they have an autoimmune disease or if they're taking a medication like an acid blocking medication, if they have atrophic gastritis, there's a long list of conditions that reduce stomach acid and they're not going to efficiently absorb that calcium carbonate or that calcium from the calcium carbonate. Calcium citrate, in contrast, is absorbed, is broken apart in a more basic environment. Or said another way, when you don't have enough stomach acid, it still will break apart that calcium citrate. You don't need the stomach acid. It'll, it'll remove the calcium from the citrate and you can absorb the calcium plus the citrate is, is vitamin C. And so you're getting a little bit of vitamin C with that too. And, and when you have low stomach acid, the calcium citrate is even better absorbed than the calcium carbonate. And so that's why I like, I prefer the calcium citrate for my, my patients. And that's why I use calcium to citrate in my formulas.

I've done a lot of detoxes over the years and many of them made me feel a lot worse. Not only that, but I've had a lot of Patients come in and tell me how after doing a detox they have a stomachache and headache and they can't sleep and they're feeling anxious. And I'm like, I can't just recommend that my patients do a program that's gonna make them feel worse. So I finally decided to do design my own detox program. It's a 14 day detox program that's not like other detox programs out there in several ways. One is that I'm focused on helping you to get the toxins out in a safe and effective way using nutrients, antioxidants and supporting our natural detoxification pattern pathways in the body. Also I'm helping you to decrease your exposure to toxins by learning the ways that you've been exposed to toxins and how to change your day to day lifestyle to decrease your toxins over time. And I'm helping you to look not just at chemical environmental toxins but also emotional and energetic toxicity. And yes, it's possible to accomplish all of this in 14 days. I have so many patients who have done the 14 day detox and report back to me how much better they feel. And I think it's also because I help you to know what to eat. You are getting adequate food that tastes good plus protein shakes that I developed that are good for your body, that your body knows how to, how to use these nutrients and take them in and use them to help you safely detoxify without feeling worse. Also I help you to balance your blood sugar levels, get better sleep and introduce things like meditation, biofeedback and other types of stress recovery into your day to day routine. So I just am so excited about it. I want to make, make sure you know about this 14 day detox. I'm going to put the link, you can find it at drdani.com forward/detox-program but I'll also put the link below so you can find the 14 day detox program at Dr. Donnie.com I look forward to guiding you through this detox so that you can actually feel better on your way to better health. What are, what is the difference like say with a lot of people have asking me lately about the, you know, maybe like seaweed formulas or what do you, what are your thoughts on that?

So if you look at so a lot of the, the formulations of the different calcium and in my opinion and looking at the research you boil down to one question. Has the calcium been shown to improve bone density? So first of all and if so great. But more importantly has it been shown to reduce fractures? I don't get the sense of looking at the research that there's necessarily one better form of calcium over another when it comes to the ability of the calcium to work to maintain strong bones to reduce fractures. But you need to absorb it. When you look at different forms, like coral calcium, for example, that's mostly calcium carbonate with some trace minerals in it.

So it's the same carbonate thing.

Again, it's the same thing. And if a product of a company out there says, well, we have data showing that our calcium improves bone density, the next question that I would ask is, do you have a study showing that it reduces fractures? And if they can't tell me that, well, it's not the best on the market. Right.

Because the citrate does have that. So that's what like you're saying that. And I want to share about your product line. So anyone who's interested in the, in the podcast notes down below, there's going to be links so you can find John's products where he's referring to what he's researched. And here's the thing is, a lot of times the focus is on the calcium. But what I also find is so important to educate patients is that it's not just about the calcium. Right. That's not the only mineral in our bones. And that's not the. We need the calcium to get to the bones. So teach us about that in terms of like vitamin D and K and, and the other nutrients that are important to go with the calcium. When you look, maybe not even with the calcium, just separate from calcium.

Right. For me, calcium is a minor component in an, in a bone health product. When I look at the research and in the formulations when I, when I was working with my patients, you know, in, again back in 2006 and I discovered the published clinical trials on a specific form of vitamin K2 called MK4. It's been approved since 1995 in Japan for bone health in the dose of 45 milligrams per day and has been shown not only to improve bone density and stop the decrease in bone density, but also improve it, but more importantly to maintain strong bones as indicated by over 70% fewer fractures in clinical trial volunteers.

Now we're talking about preventing fractures. That's like really protecting.

Yeah. So the, the ability to, for, for the, to maintain and promote, you know, strong bones is, is the ability then to take that nutrient, the calcium, and put it into the bone. And that's important. That improves the bone density. But Also to help promote healthy collagen production. And MK4 also stimulates collagen production in the bone. In those clinical trials that showed that it maintained strong bones, they didn't use anything else but the MK4, the vitamin D and calcium. And in some clinical trials, not Even the calcium, MK4 and vitamin D3 alone has been shown to promote healthy bone density. So that's why in my products I'm very focused on what is it that has been shown specifically to help the bones stay strong. And it's those three nutrients and other nutrients that are often are commonly in bone health products like magnesium or boron. None of those have been shown to reduce fractures. And please don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of magnesium. Most people don't get enough in their diet. But when I'm talking specifically about a very targeted approach to bone, it simply hasn't been shown to work. And when it comes to a multivitamin, which a lot of people should be taking anyway, it's going to be in a good quality, high quality multivitamin, you're going to have a healthy dose of magnesium in an absorbable form of the nutrient. And also if they're working with you or any other holistic document and they're working to improve their diet, they're going to be hopefully getting more magnesium through their diet by eating more plants and more vegetables. Anyway, gotcha.

I want us to come back to the MK4 because I think sometimes, I mean, even for practitioners it can be confusing because we're talking about vitamin K and when vitamin K, there's K1 and K2 and we're for the bones, we're thinking about vitamin K2. But then with vitamin K2 there's the different kinds of vitamin K2 and that's where you get to the MK4. Right? I mean, please, please say it in your way so that people really understand. We're, we're getting to a very specific type of vitamin K. I love that.

You brought this up because there's a lot of confusion, not just among clinicians and among the general public, but, but in the research as well. The vitamin K2 is a category that include subtypes of vitamin K2. They're designated by numbers, MK4, MK7. There are others as well. But commercially it's the MK4 and MK7 products that you'll find in dietary supplements. Now I've heard, and it's often people come to me and they say, well, MK7 is better because it has a longer half life meaning. You only have to take it once a day instead of with the MK4, you have to take it multiple times a day based on the research to get the benefits. But that's not similar to a bone density test. Just because something lasts longer doesn't mean it actually has the benefits that we want. And so when we look at the clinical trials on MK7 and MK4 asking the question, have these nutrients been shown to stop bone loss or improve bone loss, bone health by improving bone density, which have have both of those nutrients been shown to do that? And more importantly, have both nutrients been shown to maintain strong bones as indicated by fewer fractures in clinical trials based on that criteria? Only MK4 fits both of those criteria. They're different molecules. Yes, they're both forms of vitamin K2. But we know in biochemistry that if you change just one carbon atom, they're not the same molecule. You can get overlapping benefits, but you also get different actions as well. And what we see with MK7 in the clinical trials, at every dose tested, it's been tested at different doses. MK7 has never been shown in published clinical trials to improve bone density or stop the loss of bone density, stop the decrease in bone density. It's only been shown to slow down how fast somebody loses bone. And in fact, in one study, the women taking the MK7, they had a faster rate of bone loss in the hip. But more importantly than all of that, there are no clinical trials with MK7 showing that it maintains strong bones as indicated by fewer fractures. None, zero studies. MK4, in contrast, there are more than 25 clinical trials and that is repeatedly shown in the dose of 45 milligrams per day, that it stops the decrease in bone density and improves bone density, both in women with osteoporosis, postmenopausal osteoporosis, but also it's been shown to stop the decrease in bone density in people taking medications like prednisone, which strip bones of its minerals and damage collagen and, and increased fracture risk. And androgen deprivation therapy and medication called leuprolide fits into that category. Also studied in that. Also studied in people on dialysis with chronic kidney disease, and shown to be effective and safe in that respect. But more importantly than all of that was when we're talking about bone density, is that there are clinical trials, multiple clinical trials out there showing that it made MK4 45 milligrams per day, maintain strong bones, as indicated by more than 70% fewer fractures in those studies. And there have been multiple meta analyses of data Meta analysis for your listeners, if they don't know what that means, is a systematic review of the research where data is pulled from the different clinical trials to either validate that the research actually is showing what's accurate or to disprove it. And every clinical, every meta analysis that's been done has concluded that MK4 improves bone density and reduces fractures.

It's really something. It makes me think that this should really be something that everyone has on their supplement list. Especially what age would you say, at what age should people start taking MK4?

Well, it's not toxic, it is safe. It's been tested in children. There are even clinical trials in and in children. Pediatric dosing of the MK4 shown to be quite safe. So I would say anybody who is on a medication that we know damages bone, that it's important to consider taking one of my products, the Osteo K, Osteo k Minis or Osteomk4 to help promote healthy, you know, bone health and strong bones. But then anybody woman who's worried about her bone health and bone strength and is concerned is thinking about taking a calcium supplement. You know, as I mentioned, calcium is not so great when it comes to promoting bone health and maintaining strong bones. What we know is the calcium and vitamin D alone only reduces fractures by about 16%, 18%. But we add that MK4 on there, that is in my products, it jumps up to, as I mentioned, over 70%. So those are all the people who should, should be, you should consider of doing this. And look, I didn't get into this because I ever thought I would own a dietary supplement company. I did this because my patients needed it. I created these products and created my company because I had a problem I was trying to solve with them. And nothing existed on the market that had the clinical dose of the nutrients. It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine. You still see it today in the, in a lot of companies, they will cite research and then they will use a dose of the nutrient that's lower that was than what was used in the clinical trials and never showed to work. And that's why, because I only use the clinical trial doses of nutrients in my products. Why I can, I've been able to create such, you know, unmatched, amazing guarantees for my formulas because I know they work. But it's not just my opinion. The research, the third party research shows these nutrients work.

And this is your strong bone guarantee that you're referring to, Correct?

Correct.

Tell us more about it.

So we guarantee my Company guarantees that within six months of starting any of the Osteo K products, any in that bone support product line, the Osteo K, Osteo k minis or osteomk 4, a person's bone density will stabilize or improve, but more importantly, it will maintain strong bones. Meaning if somebody breaks a bone, we'll refund their money for all per, for all qualifying purchases between their bone density tests.

That's amazing. I mean, because, I mean I don't think anyone, I've never seen anyone else offering anything like that. And that just shows, shows us your confidence in this going to be able to help people. You know, you can't. They can't even get that kind of guarantee from the medications.

Well, and I want to be clear, this is not a medication, it's a dietary supplement. It's not approved. None of these are approved by the FDA to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any disease. But they're powerfully promoting bone health. And if I could just say one more word about calcium. Most people, I think are supplementing with too high a dose of calcium. So a lot of doctors are still recommending a thousand, you know, 1200 milligrams, 1500 milligrams of calcium per day, which to me is a met, is a is, is not indicated. It's too high. So the US RDA for women, the recommended amount for women is 1200 milligrams of calcium. The average American woman gets 800 milligrams of calcium in her diet. So taking a dietary supplement like Osteocay minis that has 400 milligrams per day of calcium is sufficient for most people. If they're getting less calcium, they can't consume it in their diet. Diet should always be first. Then the Osteo K that has a thousand milligrams per day is good. But if they get enough calcium from their diet, then the osteomk4 or if they have to avoid calcium for some reason as a supplement, the OsteoMK4 with no calcium or calcium free formula still has the MK4, 45 milligrams per day in 2000ius of vitamin D3 a day. That would be the most appropriate selection.

I'm so glad you're emphasizing this, John, because it's true. Again, most people, when they think of their bones, they think of calcium. And a lot of times, yeah, they're thinking, oh my gosh, how am I going to get this thousand milligrams and calcium when you put in a supplement is really big that's why calcium supplements are such big pills. But here you're saying, like, we're aiming for the wrong thing. We're aiming to take these big pills, aiming for a thousand or more milligrams.

That's not even necessary. And it's not even what the research is showing is going to help us protect ourselves from fractures.

Correct. And in fact, you can get too much calcium, and so getting more than, you know, 2,000 to 2,500 milligrams per day from all sources actually can be dangerous. And so you want to make sure you're getting enough based on the US rda. And what is a safe total amount? And I think that's another thing that a lot of people and even a lot of doctors conventionally don't quite get. The US RDA is the amount of nutrients somebody should get from all sources, diet and dietary supplements. It's not just mega dosing them with calcium because we got to get 1200 milligrams or 1500 milligrams as a supplement. That's, that's not appropriate.

And I'm wondering, this is the way I think about it. And I'm wondering if this is how you think about it too. I think about it as the calcium comes to our digestion because we were talking back to, you know, how important our digestion is for absorbing our nutrients. So we swallow this calcium, whether it's from our food or our supplements. The vitamin D helps us absorb the calcium into our body, into our bloodstream, and then the vitamin K helps deliver it to our bones.

Specifically the mk4. The mk4, because the mk7 again has not been shown to improve bone density. The MK4, yes, it helps direct the calcium to the bones. Now how does it do that? So all nutrients have multiple mechanisms of action in the body. I mentioned a couple of them already with the MK4. So one of the ways that it does is it promotes and it activates genes that produce collagen. And so it provides that, that substance, that important frame framework for the calcium to bind to. So it's giving the calcium something that it can, that it can hold onto. And so it doesn't just continue to float around in, in the bloodstream.

It makes me think, because collagen, of course, is so important not just to our bones, but to our other aspects of our joints, our tendons and so on our skin, our hair, our nails. So everything is, got some collagen in it. And so probably the MK4 is helping in many different ways in our body.

So I Can't, I can't cite any clinical trials showing that, but I can just tell you, like, products have been on the market. Osteo K was first.

Released in 2007, Osteo K Minis a couple of years after that. Osteo MK4 is our newest one. But people have reported that their nails are stronger repeatedly, that their joints feel better, that if they've had some discomfort in their, in their shoulders, for example, that it helps with that. And so, and even in Japan, where I said it's approved, it's also approved for bone pain. Now, I can't make that claim and I don't want to mislead anybody because in the US it's not approved for pain, it's not a medication. But what that is indicating to me is that the research is strong, that it's helping the body to function better, where if there is, there's something going on physiologically that's creating that, that pain in the joints, that's creating the pain in the bones, that the MK4 is helping to promote healthy bone and joint function so that people just feel better.

It's really awesome. Oh my gosh. And I'm so glad you're bringing all of this research and information to us and, and then you created the products because they didn't exist. You're like, okay, if this is what the research says, we need to be able to have this product available in a high quality form. And so I'm just so grateful for all of your, your work and for bringing that to us to help protect us, protect our bones, protect us from fractures. As you said, it is a major cause of death and as we age and it's something that we tend to do, take for granted our bones. So thank you again. And I want to make sure everybody knows I'm going to be having, I'm definitely down below a link to Dr. John Neustadt's book and his supplements, which you can also order through my website. Because I really have known John. I've, I've used his products with patients and I've seen them working myself. So that's why I wanted to make sure and have John come and disclose, describe all of this, all of this to us here today. Is there anything else, John, that you'd like to share with this audience before we wrap up?

I just want to reiterate a little bit of what I said earlier and that, you know, when somebody has a concern about their bone health, if they have a low DEXA scan, a low T score, that it is a serious condition. But to take a deep breath, there's lots of things that you can do. Who there. There's holistically with diet, lifestyle supplements, things you can do to promote your bone health, to maintain strong bones, and to restore your bone health. So understand that this is all research supported. It's in my book. The studies are in there. You can create a bone health program that makes sense for yourself working with your doctor, or find somebody to work with. If your doctor is not open to this, who can help guide you on this path, like. Like Dr. Donnie there, who. I know you're amazing at this and working with patients and helping them in a holistic fashion. And people should definitely reach out to you and work directly with you, because I know you're an expert in helping people with this as well.

No, thank you. Thank you, John. I love to help people with this because you can feel so empowered and confident. We want you to be able to feel excited, to do things you love as you age. Right? Being able to travel, being able to do different activities that. And if you're worried about your bones, it can really make you feel like, I'm afraid to do anything. And so to be able to create that freedom by saying, hey, here's things you can do. And actually by doing things in your life, you're actually helping your bones. Right? So we can shift that perspective. I like how you're saying, like, instead of being in fear of what could happen to your bones, being able to feel confident and then go be able to live your life with passion and purpose without having to be in fear of a fracture.

And one of the beautiful things about this approach, too, when you're looking at the diet, the lifestyle, all the things that we talked about in terms of those aspects of bone health, when you're doing it right, it also, the research is clear that those same strategies reduce your risk for cancer, heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's disease, and so on. And I'm talking about the diet, the sleep, the exercise. So when you're doing that, what helps your bones is also going to be helping the rest of your body and your life as well.

So it's like, think about your bones, and by doing that, you're going to be helping the whole rest of your health. And I love. I love that. I love wrapping up with that to just be like, wow, this is a, you know, this is worth paying attention to. And I think people are gonna look back, you know, 20 years from now and be like, I'm so glad I listened to this lecture. And I'm so glad I've been taking my MK4 and I'm so glad that I've been taking care of my bones because it's made a big difference. And so. Oh my gosh. Again, thank you so much for joining us today, John. I really appreciate it and thank you all for listening in. Please do subscribe and make sure sure you don't miss the next episode of How Humans Heal and look forward to connecting with you all again soon.

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