What Conventional Medicine Wouldn't Tell Us About Healing Cancer

Hi, and welcome to How Humans Heal. I'm Dr. Doni Wilson, and today I'm really excited to introduce all of you to Ryan Starnagel. He is the co-founder of the Starn Method with his wife, Teddy, and they started on the path of helping others to prevent and reverse cancer because they went through their son being diagnosed with neuroblastoma. Cancer when he was just 1 year old. And so that just opened up this whole world of what else can you do to help your son who's diagnosed with cancer? And now Ryan and Teddy have continued helping others who, whether childhood or other cancers, and a community, a healing community for those who are in the process of preventing or addressing cancer. And so it's really an honor to have you here, Ryan, to just hear your perspective going through this yourself and your perspective of helping so many others who are on the cancer healing journey. So thank you so much for joining us today.

Thanks for having me on, Doni. Yeah, it's been a wild ride, but it appears to be going in a pretty neat direction. So yeah, it's It's pretty cool getting to, getting to be on the other side of it and now getting to help other people get on the other side of it. And yeah. Yeah.

It's amazing. 'Cause that was over 10 years ago that Ryder was diagnosed, right?

Yeah. It's almost 12 years ago now. He'll be, he'll be 13 in May and he was diagnosed 11 days before his first birthday. I can't, it's kind of crazy. Some, sometimes it feels like lifetimes ago and sometimes it feels like just yesterday, you know, it's kind of, Kind of crazy, but—

and it just became like— and you, you and Teddy, just tell us a little bit about that. Like, you just dove in headfirst in the deep end of like, what else can we do to help our son? Which is understandable, of course. How shocking to get that diagnosis.

Yeah, it was— it— I guess it was kind of an extra gut punch to— because we were already kind of going down the getting healthy road, you know, whatever, whatever that means. We were trying different diets and eating, eating mostly organic and getting rid of chemicals in the house and EMF and all the, you know, not clearly, not nearly as much as we do now, 12 years, 12 plus years later, almost 12 years later. But I mean, compared to 90, 8% of the population. We were, we were already doing pretty good, right? Even, even before Ryder was conceived. So yeah, it was, it was a bit of a, a what the heck type thing. But, and, but you know, that being said, since we were already going down all these roads and just had gotten into watching health documentaries and, and that, and alternative cancer documentaries were included that in that. And so we'd already had a pretty good idea of, at least where to start looking, right? Mm-hmm.

And how— what was his— Ryder's treatment like? How long did that last? And when did you— was there a point where you really felt like, okay, this is behind us?

Yeah, that was a whole big thing. Yeah. So when we initially got the diagnosis, we said, thanks for the diagnosis. We're going to go get a second opinion. And they didn't like that very much. And but then we were actually back in the hospital a couple of days later because we did get a port placed or a Hickman line actually, and got the biopsy. And it turned out that that as a result of that Hickman line, he went septic with, with staph. He had a bloodstream staph infection. So at that point we were in the hospital and it's like, all right, well, we'll do, we'll do a round of chemotherapy because he did. I mean, the tumor was they always make it sound like it's an emergency and you're gonna die tomorrow if you don't, if you don't start the chemo, right? But, uh, in this case, I mean, we, we do, we, we realized we did need to do, to do something sooner than later because it was inside of his spine. Like, you couldn't even see the spine on, on the MRI. So, and, you know, any cancer clinic we were calling or anything like that was now out the window because we were inpatient on IV antibiotics and all that stuff. So we did around a chemo and then and then got back to, okay, where do we go from here? And at that point, Child Protective Services showed up and said, we heard you weren't complying with the hospital, but it sounds like you are now. So as long as you keep complying, we won't take your kid from you, was the long and short of that conversation. And yeah, so that—

That was stressful.

That was fun. Yeah, it's, you know, our son had just been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and then we're sitting in a CPS agent's office answering questions about, Were you sexually abused as a child? And how do you discipline your 1-year-old? And all sorts of fun questions like that.

The reality hits fast. And the reality of, like, hey, here's the conventional approach. And it's like, as a parent, if you're not going to follow that, then there's questions going to be coming at you.

Hot and heavy. Yeah. And so then it was, okay, well, what are we looking for? How many rounds of chemo are you guys trying to do? What's kind of the end, end goal, end point? And they said it's going to be 4 rounds. And, uh, I said, well, what are you looking for in those 4 rounds? And they gave us some parameters. And we said, well, what if you can get there in 2 rounds? Or what if we can get there in 2 rounds? And they said, that's, that's impossible, that won't happen. But if it humors you, then sure, we'll do the scans after 2 rounds and see where you're at. And we ended up blowing those parameters out of the water.

Amazing.

Probably because we were just kind of hit the ground running, right? In terms of just opposite of paralysis by analysis, right?

Well, this is the thing is a lot of times when people get a cancer diagnosis, they do go into paralysis, right? Yeah. It's like the nervous system hits this overwhelm and you feel like you can't take in any more information. And yet that's right when you kind of need to be able to make a lot of changes quickly.

Yeah. And I mean, I totally get it, but that just— that was not us. I, I had our credit cards, all of our credit cards memorized. We opened many more credit cards than the one we just had. That was kind of a fun little game of how many credit cards can we open before they catch on and we can't open any more credit cards anymore. And I had all of them memorized and overnight shipping and just in any supplement that I thought could help, we were getting it. Any device that sounded like it could help and we could afford it, we were getting it. We were working with, you know, one of the best naturopathic oncologists in the country slash world who by the grace of God was right near the hospital, his practice. And thankfully we stumbled into him just looking for IV vitamin C and yeah, all these things, right? So we, we just, We're hitting the IVs, the juicing, the— we got a feeding tube. That was like another argument with the hospital because we wanted to feed. We're like, well, how are we going to get all these supplements and juice and so on and so forth into him? And then we realized that, you know, that they give these kids feeding tubes. And we said, all right, can we get the feeding tube? And they said, well, that's, that's only for the sick kids. And we said, well, we don't want our kid to get sick.

We're gonna try to prevent that.

Yeah, that was like a half-day argument with just, well, that's not how we do it. But anyway, we won that argument. We had Yeah, juicer in the hospital and just the, the whole thing, right? And, um, so anyway, yeah, I mean, we— the, this— after we got— after we, after we got those scans, it's, no, we never said that, it's going to be— you got to do the 4 rounds. And, uh, and then we got— we're coming up on round number 4, and they said, you know, we said, well, we're coming up on number 4, it's— we're done after this, right? And said, no, who, who said anything about 4 rounds?

Oh, they keep changing the story on you.

Yeah, yeah, it's 8 and we got to start talking about radiation. And it's like, well, you just said he's doing better than you said was possible and now you're doubling the treatment on us. Yeah. And so, and yeah, on the way home from that appointment, my wife just looked at me in the car, Teddy, and said, should we just move to Utah? And I said, yes. And that was the end of that conversation. And we were gone. Under 2 weeks later and got here to Utah, where we, we still live here in Park City. We love it. Um, couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

And, um, because what, what is it that in Utah you have more decisions?

It was— yeah, I mean, nowhere is perfect, right? There is, in terms of medical freedom and parental rights when it comes to cases like this and so on and so forth. And there's, there's stories like our story, that there's stories like that here too. But it was just kind of a it was a hunch. It was a logical, somewhat of a logic educated guess, I guess you could say. You know, it was like, where in the country is both natural health friendly and personal liberty oriented? Like we came from the Seattle area that's very high on the natural health friendly spectrum, very low on the personal liberty government stays outta your business type spectrum. And then there's other places in the south, right? Big on personal liberty, but yet they don't license naturopaths and stuff like that, right? So it's, Utah was like, "Oh, they got both of those things going on, so let's give it a shot." When we got there, it turned out when in talking to the new team that the standard of care for Ryder's diagnosis was always 8 rounds. That was in his chart from day 1. They were just telling us whatever we needed to hear to get us to the next round sort of thing. At that point, we were halfway through the standard of care and probable radiation because when it's non-resectable, like it was in his inside of and growing out of spine, then a lot of times they do radiation there. So yeah, we were kind of at a minimum halfway through the standard of care, probably even less. But the new team was actually cool with backing off at that point, I think based on how Ryder was doing. And that honestly actually kind of freaked us out when we had fought so hard to for that, right? Right. And then we, we have a guy saying, well, I would like you to do more. If it were me, I'd, you know, if it were my kid, I'd, I'd do, I'd do the 8 rounds, but you're the parents. And so, yeah, I mean, that, that did kind of throw us for a loop.

Responsibility to make those decisions. Every decision along the way becomes a big decision.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you know, we decided we'll back off. And it's— that's the other thing is you know, even the way he put it was, okay, if you do this, then we'll just, we'll, we'll get scans every, every few months. And, uh, you know, if things are looking like they are going the, the wrong way again, then we can turn on a dime and start. And so it doesn't have to be, and that's what, you know, we try to tell people today, it's making any kind of decision like this is it doesn't have to be an all or nothing, it's going to be this way or, or the highway type decision. It's Just see how it goes for a little while and constantly be evaluating and reevaluating and readjusting and fine-tuning. And yeah, it's, if you, if you think you're going to get just, it's not going to be one thing that, that solves the, that solves the, that solves the problem.

That's such an important point. It really is to say like, just in the moment, make the decision and then a month later or 4 months later, it could be a completely different set of variables and a completely different outcome. So I think that's a really important point for people to hear who, when you're, when you, any cancer diagnosis, right? We're referring to Ryder's case, but like, I know I see this in many with, when I work with patients with different types of cancer, it's a similar thing. You have to kind of see where are we starting from? What's the information we have at this moment in time? And let's decide based on that information, even if it might change in a month, we can make a different decision.

Yep. Yep. So yeah, that, that actually turned out to be the last conventional medicine he ever, ever had. The tumors kept on, you know, we, we tripled down on everything we were doing on the integrative, natural, whatever you wanna call it side. And I, yeah, I mean, started, you know, did, did, kept doing the let's just do everything thing and working and, and working with really good doctors at the same time, right? And we, we'd do whatever the doctors told us and 50 other things. That was just kind of the, that was just kind of the MO. Work, you know, working with energy healers and just what, whatever it, whatever it was that we, we thought could potentially help, we were doing it. We, we ended up I guess being justifiably paranoid about environmental concerns, right? Your kid gets born with cancer, you start thinking something might be in the water. So we ended up buying a, buying a piece of land in the middle of the woods and building a house from the ground up with non-toxic materials. And so we could kind of create this ultimate healing environment. And, and then we started adding a bunch of animals and chickens and ducks and horses and donkeys and cats and dogs. And so now we got the little homestead-ish type thing going and got the greenhouse and turned out pretty cool. Yeah.

That's amazing. Yeah, because it, so it really became like, hey, if, and I think that's such an important thing. Hey, if this is, like you said, if he's, if cancer's showing up for him at that age, then yeah, we have to look at the environment that he, is in, and any decision you make would be potentially beneficial to your whole family, right? Because you're all in the same environment. So it's like, you're like, hey, let's change this environment completely so that we can make it most likely that the body can have a different outcome.

Yeah, yeah, and that's funny. Sometimes I'll even hear practitioners talk about, well, I'll, I'll clean up the, I'll get the, my patient to clean up their body or I'll help my patient clean up their body. And then once that's all fixed, then I'll start talking to them about their environment and stuff like that. And it's like, if you've got this constant flow of stuff, you know, be it, be it heavy metals or chemicals or yeah, PFS. Yeah. PFAs, all, all the things, right? If, if those are all coming in, just, And, and they are if you're not actually doing something about it, right? Then how, how are you ever supposed to clean up the body? Yeah.

Is it because you're constantly getting re-exposed? So it's just a, a vicious cycle.

Yeah. I heard like a, a, an analogy once that I liked. It's, it's kinda like, you know, if, if you compare healing to climbing a mountain and climbing a mountain's already hard enough, but then you're gonna strap a 100-pound backpack to your back and try to climb the mountain and the, you know, the backpack's all the toxicity, uh, then, you know, you— that's— you should probably drop the, drop the backpack if at all possible.

And but it comes back to some of this sort of like when you get the diagnosis, and, and a lot of times I see this, like, not only do we feel frozen in terms of decision-making, but sometimes we feel frozen in terms of feeling like we can't move or change. And the thought of like saying, hey, I, I need to consider— you know, you guys chose to move states and let alone build a new home. You know, it's like, so it's like you, you guys had to really be willing to let go of what was and say, hey, we want— our priority is so much that we want to help our son that we're gonna let go of anything we may have been attached to and, and completely create something new. Do you think there was something that helped you to be in that state of willingness to let go and create something new?

I don't really know what that might— as far as, you know, upbringing or anything, I, I don't really know what, what made us different than a lot of other people I hear about who get either a diagnosis for themselves or a diagnosis for their kid and every, everything we just talked about. I'm, I'm not really sure what, what makes Teddy and I different in that regard aside from, um, well, I get, I guess neither of us were, were angels growing up in terms of following rules and that sort of thing.

So, uh, outside the box.

Yeah, I mean, bucking the system type stuff, that, that came naturally. But as, as in terms of, you know, what, what made us so willing to just pack up and leave our family and friends and just do whatever we needed to do. It was, you know, I guess it was— I'm not saying other people don't love their kids, but that's just, that's, that's all it was, is just what, what, what is the best possible thing for, for this scenario right now? And it was pretty obvious, and so we did it, right? Um, and there's also, you know, I guess we also did just kind of embrace that Even if I, if we couldn't quantify or, you know, elucidate it like I'm about to back then, but it was just, you know, that there's, there's seasons for things. There's, there's seasons in life, right? And the more you can just embrace that this is a different season for you and really own that, right? I mean, we'd even talk about that with, um, like fundraising. right? And just, just asking for help and accepting that you are in a position of needing help, right? It's, that's, that's really hard for people. And it's, I, I'd always prided myself on not needing anybody's help and getting by on my own and pulling myself, but up by the two bootstraps or whatever the, whatever the saying is. And we, we flipped that on its head 100% and we had the, the online fundraiser. And, you know, I, I took 20 minutes out of every day just to send messages to everybody in my Facebook list or my phone or email contacts or whatever it was and just ask them to share the fundraiser. And, uh, you know, just whatever it was, because it— I guess again, it's like this— the, the, the more, the faster and the better you can embrace that you're in this season in life and whatever that is, whether it's a season of needing, a season of needing help, a season of needing to heal, the season of needing to, yeah, just let go of what you thought was important before. Probably the faster you'll be out of that season, right? Because you just, you really just lean into it. That's, you're probably gonna give yourself the best chances of moving on before the devil even knows your name, whatever that country song, however that those lyrics go.

Yeah, well, it's that it reminds me of this, you know, like what we a lot of times we refer to in— I wouldn't say naturopathic medicine, but I'm sure it's in other realms too— of just like whatever environment created the cancer, right? Whatever environment you were in, whatever. And what I mean by environment, it may be the house, maybe the state, might be the country, but it also is the, the, the status inside the body, right? So whatever status and of the situation in that person's body that allowed the cancer to happen, you want to be able to go, hey, how do I shift this? Because if we stay in the same state, then the cancer is more likely to continue because that's the state that it originated in. Yeah.

Yeah. And even just aside from wanting to have more decision-making capability over what treatments he did or didn't get and all that stuff. Uh, just that, that whole thing was also just creating a, an extremely stressful and toxic environment outside of, you know, the cancer diagnosis is stressful enough, right? But, and then you add Had all that on and just one tense situation with doctors or hospital staff or CPS workers, agents, whatever you call 'em, after the next. And then, you know, we got to thinking, it's like, what, what, what was the cause, right? We'll, we'll never know for sure. And of course the world's a very toxic place, much more toxic than it ever was. So, and did they, that, that study or experiment or whatever it was when they ran the umbilical cords of all those kids and finding all these toxicants and dozens or over 100 of 'em were known carcinogens. But it, so that's the toxicity of course is a factor. But there was also, my wife did have an extremely stressful work situation going on while she was pregnant. And it was one of those, the, the, the only thing we can figure is the boss was trying to make her life so miserable that she would quit. So, they wouldn't have to pay maternity leave sort of thing happening. And I mean, it worked on the making her life miserable. I saw it on her face every day, right? And talk about one regret in life is not pulling her out of that job sooner. All right. And then what do you know? Our son is born with a cancer of the nervous system. Wow.

Isn't that sad? And it just shows you how emotional stress can show up in this way. Because I think a lot of times we, we're not realizing that the emotional stress we might be in with a job, for example, or some other kind of relationship that's involving, you know, that degree of pressure, uh, it can show up in our health. It doesn't mean that it's always going to be cancer, but that's— it could be, you know, it can be related. Emotional stress can translate into risk of cancer. We know that from research too.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's whatever, if you wanna take the adverse childhood experiences study, that whole thing, or just the, even the more the esoteric, not even esoteric, but the, you know, Bruce, Bruce Lipton, Biology of Belief stuff, the Joe Dispenza stuff. It's, you know, the, they're all proven it in different ways, right? That Yeah. What, what, what you think and what happens to you and how you interpret whatever has happened to you. And it all, it all makes a very big physical difference one way or the other. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And, and it's, you know, it's like, it kind of sucks to hear that on the one hand, cuz we've, we've all been through stuff, right? And it's, yeah, that, That's really unfortunate that just what we've been through can cause a physical disease. But it's also, you know, you flip that on its head, it's also empowering to know that there, there are, you know, it's like when, when I asked the, when I asked the hospital what, what they think caused the cancer, uh, I got a, a shrug and bad luck, you know what I mean? And that, that was really Yeah, yeah, those were the exact two words was bad luck, was that was the cause.

That's just a dead end right there.

Yeah. So it's like, well, what are you supposed to do with that? You know what I mean? But when you actually like, oh no, okay, there are real things that caused it. And if they're, you know, that there are these real things that caused it, then you can find the reversal to those things, right?

So absolutely, that's such an important way to— as a naturopathic doctor, as you know, that's a key. It's like we always want to understand what's underlying, what's asking that question, why. And even if we don't know the exact answer, like you said, we can at least consider all the possibilities and address them to decrease the likelihood. And so I wanted to just ask you, you know, more specifically related to clean home and nontoxic home type, what did you learn along the way? Like, what is it like? Because you've You've researched everything and seems like tried most everything. If, if, you know, if you had to say like, what are your some of your top things that you're like, if someone asked you, what would you definitely do in your home that you feel like made the biggest difference? If you could tell it all.

Yeah. I mean, it's— well, one, it's, it's, it's easier to— although the world keeps getting more toxic, there are more and more non-toxic living options available by the year, whether you're talking about just, you know, non-toxic skincare products or stuff like that on up to non-toxic building materials and, and things of this nature. So yeah, there, there's more options now than there ever was. Even I just remember like the, you know, the, what, what's that? The Environmental Working Group. List of all their A-rated products. It was whether you're talking about skincare or cleaning or whatever it is. And it's like, that was a very small list 12 years ago or 15 years ago. And now it's, you know, now, now it's overwhelming. Like, which, which of these, you know, top-rated non-toxic products do I choose? So that's cool. So it's, I mean, it's as far as like consumable, you know, cleaning, skincare stuff you have around the house, I mean, it's just, that's really easy. Just don't buy anything with a word that you can't pronounce in the ingredients. And, and you can, you can geek out deeper than that, but I mean, it's, it's, it's getting, getting easier and easier. But as far as like more of the, the home, home stuff goes, I mean, and you know, if, if you're trying to build your own house, then work with a building biologist would be my top, or, or even do a remodel or something like that, right? 'Cause it, it can get overwhelming researching all the different, options and schools.