What is Shamanism and How it Heals with Don Gino

Hi and welcome. I am so excited to introduce you to Don Gino today. He is a shaman from Peru who is joining me to talk about what is shamanism, what is ayahuasca, and the ceremony around ayahuasca, and how can that be healing for people? So thank you so much for joining me today, Donjino. Oh, my gosh, I feel so much gratitude to be able to have this conversation with you.

Hello, Donnie. Thank you for your invitation. I give a salutation to all your viewers also, because this kind of podcast and channels are very needed in these troubled times to just to give a little guidance or a little light, you know. So, yeah, I'm here. Whatever you want to ask me, I'm open to answer.

Oh, thank you so much.

Maybe start just like. I mean, I know that you really were introduced to being a shaman from a very young age from your grandfather who was a healer and shaman from Peru. I mean, how amazing to. It's hard for me to even imagine that kind of introduction to your life. I mean, but tell us a little bit more about, you know, just what led you to do what you do.

So, yeah.

It all started when I was young, for sure, when I was 15.

I'm heading 65 now, so that's like, what, 40 years ago. So we're in 20, 21, probably 1980s.

Kind of. Yeah, long time ago.

So.

Things have changed a lot. A lot of water under the bridge and keep changing. And in Peru, you know, much earlier than that. But Also in those decades, 60s, 70s, 80s.

There was a lot of shamanism going on.

Never under the radar, because it's absolutely open and legal and part of our.

Cultural inheritance. So we're talking here 1970, 1970s, at that time, more or less.

And, yeah, Peru is a very old culture, you know, from the Incas and Amazonians. Both Indians are very, very old, very antique.

My grandfather was from the Incas, so in the Andes, I come from the Inca lineage, and in the Amazon from the Anesthesio lineage, which is mixing of bloods Andean and criollo and so on. And then my path started because I was always a seeker.

It's really something. I mean, especially if, you know, people who are, you know, trying to understand what's going on with their health or maybe, you know, I think a lot of times people who might start to be interested in investigating shamanism might have found that they have either stresses or past traumas or health issues that they are struggling with and maybe feeling like they're not getting answers. And so we Start to look for other healing modalities and other ways of looking at healing. And that's how I kind of think of like, hey, here's shamanism, which is this ancient healing approach from Peru that, as you're saying, has existed over time and has carried through. And amazingly, you've been one of these healers who kind of carried this healing modality into. Into the present. So again, that's why I feel so grateful. And I know that there's a lot more, it seems like more shamanism coming, more awareness for it now, but some people don't have as much experience as you. And so I, again, I feel so. That feels so amazing to be able to have your background and your. And that, you know, even from your grandfather, you know, that experience of shamanism. And what would you say? I mean, when people come to you for help or to receive from you, in terms of shamanism, what are some of the common reasons that they share? What are some of the reasons why they might be seeking out a shamanistic journey?

As you said, a lot of people are in really pain in their lives, either physically or emotionally or troubled in the mind not finding clarity in their lives lost.

Just.

Floating in the sea like a jellyfish with no north.

And yeah, this like their last resource, especially in physical diseases and emotional diseases, is like their last resource. Okay, nothing has healed me, nothing has helped me. I'm gonna try shamanism. There is a reason for that, because shamanism has always been there since the beginning of time, since the humanity started in a little tribal societies. It was always.

Because humans. Humans always have little diseases. Probably less in the tribal mode, but still. So there was a need of some knowledge of healing. But the big difference is that they involve the healing as the human being as a unit. Not only the body or the symptom, but the whole being as a unit where something is broken. You know, we have four clear.

Parts in our existence. Our body, which is our vessel, is how we express in this realm, how we learn.

And then our emotional life that expresses through the experiences that come through the body. And then our mind also involves in guiding your life, sometimes blind or awakened, and then your spiritual life, which is what connects it to the source.

And this in the modern society gets to be broken.

Hardly tribal mode, because, you know, they have a simple life.

Will hardly find stress or depression in a tribal mode, in a community, or issues like abuse, sexual, physical, emotional.

Because they just one with nature, one with the. With the group, the tribal group. They have one common north. They take care of each Other. So they mainly will use these plants as healers in the physical body, emotional, also social disruption. In the tribal mode. This will gather and drink these plants to overcome any.

Discussions or bumps that would affect the normal evolution of the society.

And then it has been evolved or transformed or changed by the hand of human in the different.

Way nowadays. It's not like in the old days, you know, with a lot of respect.

Humbleness, reverence for these plants that can take us to other dimensions, because they are just doors to walk in other.

Dimensions, in other realms. And now.

It is more addressed to do ceremony only, you know, sometimes with an approach of bringing a beautiful moment during four hours, five hours, or the whole night, with a lot of beautiful music, or sometimes gatherings.

You know, And. But there is a little bit of a misuse there of the word shaman. You know, in the old times, the shaman was in the tribe, was one shaman who you will go in the community, who is the shaman? Go to the little house in the corner. And then the old man, that is the shaman you go now in the community and you ask, who is the shaman? In 20 hands raised, a lot of Jews, youngsters wanted to jump in. Not only there, but also in Western world, in Europe or America, everybody wants to jump in.

And everything that has eating now.

Shamanic dancing, shamanic bread, shamanic clothes, shamanic food, shamanic drumming, everything that has the word shaman is like a commercial label that will make it go.

In a bigger market, let's say, which is okay, whatever, it's just a word, a brand maybe. But the reality behind the shamanism is much bigger, much broader. It has a much bigger connection with other realms where there are many, many truths.

To be brought in this reality, in that, this way, the shaman goes there in the tribal mode. The shaman is not going to heal the community or heal himself forever. Maybe it's a one year, two years process for himself. And then why would he go there if there's no more healing? He will just go there to gather this powerful information.

In the other side and bring it back to share with the community. So it has always been needed to the question why they come. They come to see, to try the shamanism or plants or whatever, because there are many, many ways. There are plants, shamans that work only with powerful drummin singing or whistling, or just by blowing the mapacho, the tobacco or.

Some. Others work with their hands.

Just by being present or with their words. Talking also is a very powerful healing tool. And others work with prayers or with opening other gates with substances, mainly psychedelic and there are many at this moment. Ayahuasca is just one more of those, which for me is the queen of the plants. But that is just my approach. Then you have iboga from Africa and mushrooms in Mexico, in Norway, north with the samis, powerful shamans. And they were with amanita, muscaria and drumming. And you got the cactus in Mexico, peori. And in Peru, San Pedro or Huachuma.

Trumpet, flower, toy, Peru tobacco. Ayahuasca. Many, many more that are not named, that have this, the key of taking you in other realms through.

Chemicals.

Silosy vine in the mushrooms, dimethyltryptamina and ayahuasca, mescaline and the cactus.

Which are just doors. I mean, of course, if you take it as.

Recreational, you're not gonna get the best from it.

Yeah. And I think that's a lot of people. It's. I mean, I definitely am hearing more of, you know, people looking into trying different substances and sometimes more from a synthetic perspective or even from like you're mentioning, really you refer to it as a plant medicine because these are from plants. And really from my background, even as a naturopathic doctor and an herbalist, we always look at anything that comes from the plant as having more of the whole substance. It has all of the different ingredients in the plant and it's coming from the whole plant, which can be very different than taking a single substance that's been extracted or a synthetic version of a substance. I think too, what you're saying is there's these different plant medicines that help in the healing process to help us kind of. I mean, and also from my experience working with you, it takes. You have to. Sometimes we have to find a way to kind of get a different perspective on our lives and what's going on. Because we get so right. We're so stuck in our current pattern and program and routine and our certain way of looking at things that we can't solve. Whatever's going on from that same perspective, we need to be able to get an outside perspective on our lives and the different things that have happened to us. And I think that that's part of what these plant medicines do is give us access to a different perspective. That's not just because some people wonder, is it just in the moment of taking the plant medicine? But what I've experienced is that it's long lasting. Right. Once you have the experience and you see things, a different perspective that stays with you beyond the ceremony.

In your case, that you sat with me, you came to Peru, you did A dieta. And you're a doctor, how was your experience coming from the scientific world? Just believing when you can touch or when you can proof, can you tell us how was it?

And yeah, as you're saying, I, you know, I, I think for some people that may seem like a big, you know, to decide to take a flight to, to Peru. I came to Cusco in the Sacred Valley and I spent. I was in what is called a dieta, which is a 10 day retreat where we do make diet changes and we participate in many different ceremonies, including with ayahuasca. And I feel like it was a lot of it was being able to come away from my usual schedule and life and routine and come into this really healing retreat. But I also feel like a lot of it was being able to allow the plant medicine to do its work, especially with my background in researching stress and helping people to recover from stress. I feel like ayahuasca in particular was such an amazing plant in terms of being able to reset the stress response. To me, I feel like it really helped to shift what we think of as like the autonomic nervous system, you know, our fight and flight versus our rest and digest, you know, like our stress response system that's always trying to help us out on the day to day. With ayahuasca, it just really resets that stress response in such a profound and yet gentle way that it's, you know, I came out of that experience feeling like, wow, this is such, such an effective way to shift my experience with stress and also to get a new perspective on things that maybe happened way back in my life that I wasn't aware of. I wasn't thinking of these things for myself. But ayahuasca helped my mind to resolve things that my mind was still working on that I didn't even know my mind was working on, if that makes sense. My mind was able to resolve those.

Things and in the second layer.

Yeah. And it stays with me. So now, you know, weeks later, it's not like I go back to where I was before. It feels like, wow, this is something that creates a shift that's a lasting shift, but it's not. Sometimes I think people get afraid of using different plant medicines or trying something new. But I would really want to encourage people to know that it's a very effective and yet gentle medicine, especially in the hands of a shaman like you. I mean, I think that, you know, it's important to work with a shaman who has the experience and.

Who has safety as a priority.

Yeah, that's true. Thank you for sharing your experience. It was wonderful to have you there. You really dive in, surrendering to the medicine. I didn't feel any fear in you, which is normal because we was a little bit in fear of the unknown. And I'm going to take this plan. What is it going to happen? I'm going to die? Am I going to become crazy? Not coming back anymore to this reality? All this is there because people listen to stories. Nobody can tell you really how the experience is. They can tell you kind of what they went through. But everybody has a different experience. And that depends on what you bring in the space, what you're holding on to, what you need to sort out from the past. Where are you standing at the moment in your life, all these influences on your process. Of course there are ways and ways. I am an elder, you know, and I don't come to play games or to show off or to.

I don't know, give a music concert or taking you through the roller coaster to have a nice academic experience. Many ways. And those are not my ways. I have an approach of opening the door for you to do your inner work with my help reaching you to the medicine. That is all I do. I'm just a breach. I take you there in a gentle way with my singing, with my cut offs. I guide you in that realm. I know what you're going to face. I give you tips, this, that breathe. And then I bring you back safely. And I have seen many, I don't know, facilitators or shamans. There are so many categories now it's unbelievable. You have sitters. What that means, I don't know. Guides, facilitator.

Providers.

Music, musician, shaman and so on. But the thing is that.

I find that maybe when there is.

Not enough knowledge of how to handle the plants and have to brought you to your own healing, then you give and serve more medicine because the medicine will take you to the universe. And.

Really amazing. And roller coaster firecrackers. But sometimes can also be very, very harsh, very hard. And then why there's no need. I mean, this is work. Sometimes I ask.

Participants from other circles and how was your process? Wow, it was amazing. Big doses? Yeah, big doses. And how was it? Incredible. I mean, unbelievable. But how was it? I don't remember anymore.

So where is the work?

No, I really feel like there's.

There's definitely, you know, I know so many different possibilities, but I feel like working with you, I really got to understand the, you know, the. And. And not only understand, but really see the value in honoring the. The ritual, on the ceremony and. And being able to trust. You know, I think that's a big piece of it, is to trust the person who's. Who's guiding you through. Because then you. And I felt complete trust with you the whole time. And I think that definitely makes a difference and be able to know that, you know, what happens, you're going to be there. And it's. You know, I think it. Like you were saying, there's the part about what we process from our past that we maybe didn't even realize was there to be looked at. But also, as you mentioned, being able to have this access to, as you say, another realm, this spirituality that I really see now after going through the process. But I didn't before. I was aware of it, but I didn't know what it looked like. And so it really opens up this whole new understanding of a bigger understanding of the world we live in and who we are as beings in these human bodies and in this. On earth and in this world we live in. And to be able to see that there's these other aspects of us that we. We kind of forget about or lose track of or didn't even know about.

Yeah, it's true. I mean, as I said, these plants are doors to bring you where you need to go. Not take me here, take me there. No, you just let the control out and then allow the medicine to take you where you need to go. And it just came in this moment, this.

Understanding, which I like. It's like here we live. Most of us, unless you learn to live from the heart, most of us live from. The mind is needed in this 3D reality with the senses. What we smell, what we can see, what we can touch, what we can hear, what we can taste.

But these plants take you in a realm where the mind is not needed. We go in the world, spiritual world, but in the world.

Of consciousness, where you will feel your consciousness. And why is this? Because the mind blocks many things from the past that have been painful, but they are still inside, holding you back. You know what? Look. There is the forbidden box, the dark box. And you put it in the closet or in the basement or under the carpet or whatever. And when you go there, since the mind is not there anymore, but this is your consciousness. Your consciousness embraces all your life since you came here.

And then you are allowed to see all what you have gone through until this moment of your life, crystal clear. Not your mind. You will see also from. With different eyes, with a Conscious eyes, you will feel emotions from your heart.

But there is no walls that doesn't allow you to see where you need to look anymore. It's a broader realm. You're in the consciousness. It's one consciousness. And there your consciousness can scan. You scan yourself with the help of the plant, of the mother. And then, wow, this was really. This was. No, not really. Then you look again. Yeah, I remember a little bit of this. No, it didn't happen. And then you look again because the mother is very hush. Look. She says look. And then you. Wow. Yes, I remember it happened. Oh my God. It was so bad, so nasty. And sometimes it is so nasty that there is no other option but perishing it out. That is why this plant is cold. In the Amazon. We don't say let's go take ayahuasca, but let's go have the purge. And we. Yeah.

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Mm.

And it's and that is sometimes people hear about ayahuasca and they hear about the purging and that kind of of makes them hesitant. Believe me, I was one of those people for a while too. But what I found is, well, one thing is that purging can look different for different people. It could be crying, it could be shaking, it could be sweating, it could be, you know, can look different ways. It's not always just vomiting. And even then with my experience of it, I realized that even if it is vomiting, vomiting is something that our human bodies can do and know how to do. In fact, I almost wonder, as a naturopathic doctor and someone who studies the body, it made me realize that I think actually vomiting is something that our bodies are meant to do probably more often, and we end up trying to avoid it or prevent it. And there's something healing about the process. It's part of the vagal nerve response and the autonomic response that it could actually be very healing.

But this is a defensive tool from the body. In a different layer, your body reacts when you drink too much alcohol, putting it. Your body wants to put it out because it's poison. When you eat rotten food.

Yeah.

Immediately intoxicated, your body wants to pull it out. All this is regarding the physical.

Maybe emotionally, when these things is really struggling, you. You purge, you cry. But energetically, we don't have that tool.

How do we purge what we are storing energetically? And this is a tool to bring that perish. Because the vomit in life, because you got drunk or you got poisoned or you got intoxicated, it's there. It will come immediately. But to get this.

Release involved of everything that you have stored energetically and in your mind and even in your emotions and even also in your body, this is a biggest tool because it brings a different purge. Absolutely. Not food, even if.

It'S stored deeply in your body, but energetically in your guts and in your. Each single cell. The medicine goes in each single cell in days, what needs to be taken goes in your guts, which is very old and rooted like a no tree. All these stories and emotions and traumas and phobias and abuse. And then it brings it out bit by bit. Absolutely. Different texture, color, weight. It's like you carry a bucket of perching in ayahuasca, and it is like leading heavy, and it's just.

Like that. So, yeah, you're right. I mean, we are not designed to purge that.

Load energetically. Dark load that we accumulate. And that is why we have the plants.

Yeah. And I think it's. So when I was in Peru, to be able to experience and feel like, wow, this is such a. This is something that the Incas, or even before the Incas discovered this, likely this was something that humans figured out long back in history. I don't know, but they figured out this is something that was assisting and I think necessary for us. You know, like, we need some plants to help us process. And ayahuasca is an example of one of these plants that can really help us process stress that in a way that is hard to match. You know, I think. And I've studied a lot of different ways to help us process stress, but it's. And for people who may want to understand ayahuasca itself a little bit more. I mean, some, of course, as you mentioned, I think there's the aspect, that's the dmt, which comes actually from not the actual vine of ayahuasca, but from the leaves that are added to the mix. And dmt, as you've taught me, is kind of opening your mind to allow the ayahuasca vine to really do its work.

Yeah, I mean, it's. Nobody knows for real how it all started, but this like 2,000 years ago. And it's interesting why the plan came at that time to the surface. Maybe they were going through dark times too, even in the tribal mode or colonization or. I don't know. I think now we need it 100 times more badly in this time. And that is probably why they came back again very, very strongly, like since the 60s and now in the 19th and 20s, much more. And I hope it really sprouts everywhere.

And there is a spirit in this clan that allows you to see inside and to see what you're carrying and gives you clarity. This plant is really powerful. Really. We in shamanism, everything we believe has an anima, a soul and spirit. The river, the sun, the moon, mother earth, plants, animals, the rocks, name it, which you can see in different state of consciousness. You can see the rock with an entity inside. You can see a tree, and you can see the face of that entity in the tree or the mountain. And this is not hallucinated. They are there, but you cannot see with these eyes. Then you understand that everything is one energy, one life, one. One spirit expressing in different ways through a tree, through a fish, through a plant. So the thing is that we don't see this. And when we take the medicine, we can see the spirit of the plant. And then I say, if a plant, a vine has a spirit so powerful, can you imagine the spirit that a human being that's.

That's beautiful.

Absolutely immense. But we have it undeveloped, underdeveloped, not even developed, because sometimes we don't even believe in it. How can you develop something you don't believe? Because you cannot feel it, you cannot touch it, because this one takes over. But when you are in. In the medicine, you can feel a consciousness, your spirit beyond the mind, and then there is something bigger than the mind. Who is saying my body, my mind. Who is saying my mind? Something bigger than the mind.

Such a. Such a good point. And I love how you're talking about the spirit of Ayahuasca. That's why it's referred to often as Mother Ayahuasca. Or, you know, because people perceive the spirit as mother.

Like, yeah, Yesterday we were having a little chat with a friend and he asked me, some people ask, I don't know where, to a scientist or to a lecturer, what is the mother? What is the spirit of the mother?

And he said that for him it was like Gaia, which is Mother Earth.

I have met many spirits of many plants. I believe that the spirit of Mother Ayahuasca is the queen. And I believe.

It was the way of Mother Earth to express herself on whatever she's carrying. What is she carrying? She's carrying all the times since time. And that is why she shows many times the start of the universe. Mother Earth was just taking shape. A ball of fire, but already alive. She was looking how the stars were shaping, how Earth started, how life started. Here, she shows you this. How can the plan show you this? It's not the plan itself. It's the spirit inhabiting in this planet that is connected to. Through the roots, to Mother Earth. And I believe that Mother Earth expresses all her knowledge and all her time and all what she saw through these plants. And of course, there is a little bit of the plant itself, because the plant is. Now we know that the plant can see, the plants can hear, the plants can feel, communicate underground with this mushroom web.

So why would a plant show you the Amazon, or the panther, or the jaguar, or the. Or the anaconda or the river if they have not seen it? How can a plant describe something that she has not seen?

And I totally believe that if Ayahuasca, for example, would grow or we would be native from the North Pole, you will be seeing instead of the Amazon, polar bears and snow peaks, glacials.

That makes sense. Yeah. She's showing you her environment and what.

That is why also the plan.

Is empowered by the carrots. Because they came here, what did they hear, especially in these languages? Because some people, some facilitators say, no, I can sing in English, or if I have a French group, I sing in.

French, but maybe it will work a little bit. But as the plants can see and shows you the Amazon, they can hear. Why have they been hearing all their lives when they are coiling in the. In the Amazon, the natives. What is the language of the natives? Shipibu and Quechua. That is why when you see an Icaro in this language, the plant vibrates in a different way because they can hear. And it takes you back to their environment.

The Icarus that you're mentioning are the medicine songs. And oh, my gosh, to Me, they were so, so powerful and so beautiful. Like the. On the. The ability, your ability in particular to be able to. To sing these ikatos and also using flute and rattles and, you know, whistling and all the different.

Music that really. Yes, assists in the process. It's. It's. I love to hear how it's, you know, to understand it and so much speaking to the plant.

Because the plants understand sounds and tones and singing. They even teach you to sing how to sing, which tones and the words to communicate with them, to ask them to heal the body, the soul. Even the Shipibos have this in the Shipibo language so old. And they already knew at that time.

Like they will sing.

Me jura me your.

Body. Soy, soy. Heal, come heal my body. They were singing this in that 2000 kanogano mi kaya. So I me my or yours Kaya soul.

Heal, heal my soul Me shinai so come heal my mind. Clear my mind me 20 so I went the heart. Come heal my heart. So this is what you sing to them. With love, with caring, like caressing, calling the spirits of the plants, and with conviction. Because if you go there and sing just to sing, nothing happens or very little happens. There is no respect, there is no belief, there is no conviction. It's just a charade, it's just a theater.

This is to believe in a very humble way. And then they will connect with you, guide you, and come and act through you through the singing. And then you also give silence to allow the plants, once you call them, they get inside. There's no need to sing. It's a little bit silence to allow them to work. And then again. So it's a process to understand everything that happens in a ceremony. It's like so many energies there. And that is why it's sad and a little weary in how people can just jump in. They come to Peru, they do a dieta five ceremonies. And then the super inflation of the ego sometimes comes very often lately. And hey, I'm the shaman, I am chosen and so on.

I think that very hard is if you want to become a shaman, you will become one. It's more like the plant chooses you. Mother Earth. There's something there old.

And many. Very often these people, including me, reject this being selected. No, no, no. There are other people. No.

I'm not saying it cannot be learned. Of course it's teachable, but teachable. The information, the knowledge, the tools, you can trespass it, but not the power. The power is either there or not.

It will grow in time. At the beginning, there's no power and there's no rock. Maybe a little stone. But if you do the right work, then they will guide you. You learn. Many things are not taught by the maestros or shamas. You just show the path and how to connect. And the other realm is all the teachers out there, all maestros, mother ayahuasca, the plants. And then you become more and more humble, more simple. The more simple, the better, the more powerful, you know, no pretensions, just come, do the work. In the old times, really, a good old shaman would bet they were very poor, you know. And then people will gather in his little room, four or five.

There were not a lot of. In the mestizo way. And then he would grab a little piece of paper, sit on top of that. And his mesa, or altar was a little piece of newspaper, also with mapacho medicine. I was already there. That's it.

Very simple.

This is what I do. Sometimes I don't have a cloth and I just use a little piece of. Now you look at the mesas and the altars, 2 meters by 2 meters, with everything there, stones and crucified and whatever. It's okay. I mean, it's good to have all this there. But the more simple the better.

Wow. And I mean, I want to share if people want to learn more about your work and how to be in touch with you. I. I know your website is called Chakaruna, which is also your name that was given to you by your grandfather, which means Chakaruna is what means the bridge or bridge. Bridge to the medicine.

The bridge. Chaka means bridge. Runa is man human or being. So because I bridge you to the other realm so safely, I have gone back and forth so many times that I know the road. I know what you will encounter. I give you tips. If you go there, do this, you go there. I try to guide you with the cuddles. And then I bridge you, which is the most.

Difficult and long path, the one that connects your heart and your mind.

I bridge you to learn how to connect with Mother Earth, with your loved ones, and bridge you from death to life.

There is a lot of bridges that are needed.

Oh my God. And so, yes, I love it. It's so beautiful. And I feel so grateful to you for guiding me and for. For this conversation and for just, you know, just for your wisdom. It's so. It's Chakarunas. C H A K A R U.

N a with a-in between-in between middle.

Dutch.com chaka-runa.com and you have as we spoke about the retreats in Peru, also one in the Amazon, which I hope to do as well. And also you travel around the world being able to offer retreats.

Yeah, I do. I did many years, but I think I'm just gonna do in Peru. Maybe this is my last year. I don't know yet. I keep saying that's all.

That's a lot for you. I know the travel is a lot.

I'd rather stay there in Peru. And it's a deeper work which goes from January to February.

I have been doing workshops or retreats, three day retreats in many places. But.

That is a good start for sure. It's a good opening of going in other rails learning because this is a work you need to. It's learnable. I mean the beginning is a little unknown, then maybe a little hard and then you just flow through it and then you just go there and look, perish a little bit maybe, or not come back. It's something you need to learn how to surrender and allow just to be there and witness everything that's happening around you. And in the Amazon we do 10 days isolation. Really Isolation, just dieta means we diet a special food with no salt, no sugar that enhances your senses, detox your body to take you deeper with the medicine. We do cleansing bath with Amazonian plants and purification and protection bath for your dieta at the beginning. Then we do process of purging your toxicins with the kabo and sananga second day and then you're ready to go. And then we do five ceremonies every other day where we go a little deeper each day. No rush this work. You don't run, you crawl, you walk. And then maybe you run and you fall down and you crawl again. So it will go slowly, but it's very, very deep because you are isolated. You are taken out from your comfort zone.

You let go of your house, friends, family, loved ones, cell phone, Internet, your car, your finance, your work. Nothing, absolutely nothing. It's just you in a little tumble, a little cavana, three by four, no walls, mosquito net, a roof, a hammock, a bed and a table in the chair.

And then it's only, not even a mirror to look at yourself. It's only you with you. Who are you?

I can't wait. I really, you know, look forward to it and I, for me, maybe because of some of my prior work, you know, my first chance getting to know ayahuasca, I just immediately felt like this is such a necessary medicine for people Especially when I think of all the patients I work with and how much they struggle with their health. I just felt like this is such a healing medicine that I want people to be able to know about. And so I'm so glad to get to share that here in this interview with you. Thank you. And I'm hoping that anyone who's listening and has that sense that maybe you'd be interested or you'd like to explore, explore this further. Definitely reach out to don gino through chakaruna.com and I'll put the link down below the video as well. Or reach out to me and I can help get you in contact with him because it really has such a healing potential that I've experienced myself. And again, thank you so much, Donjino, for sharing your perspective and your wisdom with us today.

Very little, just a little old man with some drops of wisdom took me, maybe I'm a little crazy. Took me a whole life to become one, it takes practice. I'm very thankful for opening this door and to express little ideas and knowledge of my ethnia from Peru. You're all welcome to come there to do your work. As I was explaining, January, February, we do three dietas, 10 days and then we stop two or three days and then again dieta. So some people go back to back like two dietas, sometimes three, depends on what you're carrying. And then in March and April we do in the Andes so you can get to go to see the sacred sites. Machu Picchu, do a little bit of San Pedro. Also at the beginning, same program as in the Amazon. We also do in both dietas I open the doors for facilitators that work with me. Music, charango, classes with my little brother Ali. And we do missionary painting workshop with Jorge where you can get to paint the visions that you get through Yudieta. So it's a wonderful process. In the Andes we go visit the keros in the highlands, the old shamans and we do a little three days sacred site tours.

Yeah. And also.

Of course from everything that comes in financially, we give back to the native communities percentage.

These medicines are very needed and I believe every human being should do at least once before leaving your body. Thank you so much.

Thank you, donjino. I really appreciate it.

Okay, until next time. Ciao.

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