02: Embracing Your Child’s Zone of Genius with Dr. Elisa Song

So your child with adhd, they may not thrive in math club, but they may excel maybe in robotics if they have the hyper focus or they may in color guard where they're moving their bodies. Right. So always trying to give your child opportunities to succeed.

Welcome to the Soaring Child Podcast where parents of children with ADHD learn tips and tricks to help their child soar at home, at school and in life. We feature interviews with experts, medical professionals and parents just like you who are learning how to reduce ADHD symptoms using food and other natural strategies. Because children with ADHD deserves to soar just like every other child. I'm your host, Dana Kaye, Foreign.

This is Dana K. And welcome to the second episode of the Soaring Child Podcast. And we are going to start at the very beginning. Honestly, I was a little starstruck when I first met my guest today. She was so extremely inspirational to me in my business and in the way that I show up for my community. And so I was very honored when she said yes to filming this episode. She is the perfect person to help you guys, the listeners, really understand and weed through the mountains of information out there about ADHD. This week we are exploring does my child have ADHD? And where to start. Dr. Elisa Song, M.D. is an integrative pediatrician, pediatric functional medicine expert and a mama in her integrative pediatric practice, Whole Family Wellness. She's helped thousands of kids get to the root causes of the their health concerns and help their parents understand how to help their children thrive, body, mind and spirit by integrating conventional pediatrics with functional medicine, homeopathy, acupuncture, herbal medicine and essential oils. Dr. Song has taught around the world on integrative pediatric topics for leading educational organizations including the Institute of Functional Medicine, A4M Functional Medicine Australia and so many more. Dr. Song created healthy Kids, Happy Kids as an online holistic pediatric resource to help practitioners and parents bridge the gap between conventional and integrative pediatrics with an evidence based pediatrician backed approach. Now it's time to welcome Dr. Elisa Song, MD to the Soaring Child. Hi Elisa. Thank you so much for joining us.

I am honored to be here talking about this really important topic for so, so many parents out there.

Oh look, honestly, when you agreed to join me on the podcast, I was overwhelmed because I think I've told you this before. You and your business. You inspired me. You inspired me to show up for my audience and so this is such an honor for me.

So thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, well, I'm so glad to share your amazing work with My audience, it's so, so important.

Oh, great. So let's launch in. Look, I want to start right at the beginning. When I, my son was diagnosed, I just didn't know where to turn. And, you know, the first thing people turn to is their pediatrician. So let's start right there. You know, from a pediatrician's point of view, when a family comes to you, you know, and they're asking, what is adhd? How does it present? What am I looking for? You know, what do you say to them?

Yeah, so, you know, ADHD can present in different ways, as, you know. And so that's something really important for parents to understand. There's very often a familial component. So even if parents weren't necessarily diagnosed themselves with adhd, they may recognize, oh, this is what I went through, and my life was really hard as a kid and as a student. So how can I help support my children, you know, whether or not they're thinking of a diagnosis? So when we think about adhd, it is something that is present from a very young age. So it must be present before 12 years of age. I mean, even before. You'll talk to parents who. I mean, I have parents coming in who have toddlers, and, like, do you think that they might have adhd? Or, you know, do you think they might? Right? So because you have some of these warning signs. What's normal toddler behavior and what's not, right? So that is something that we. We have to tease apart, and it must be present in multiple settings, right? It can't be just that they're acting out in school, but when they're, you know, activity or at home, there's none of these symptoms present, because then I want to think, well, what's going on situationally in that environment? So it has to be present in two or more settings, you know, at home, at school or preschool, with their friends, at church. I mean, different. Different settings. And here's the thing. Many of us, especially entrepreneurs, right, like. Like you and business owners, we might look at this list of ADD symptoms and ADHD symptoms and think, oh, my gosh, that's me, right? Because there's such a magical quality. There are so many amazing, amazing positives about having these superpowers, as I call them, superpowers, this way that our brain works, okay? But when you have a diagnosis of adhd, it really needs to interfere with or reduce the quality of your social and school functioning. And so when we think about ADD or adhd, there are also, as we know as kids get older into their teen years and adult years. There are many, what are called comorbid mental health conditions. And sometimes ADHD can be. Sometimes other conditions can kind of masquerade as adhd. So we want to make sure that we're not just throwing a diagnosis at our kids and really taking a look at the whole picture, getting a really full comprehensive look at what is going on. Because there are other conditions like anxiety and depression in younger kids, sensory processing disorders, learning differences, oppositional defiant disorder. I mean, different things that can present, like add and also different things that can present with adhd. Yes, Right. And so we can't just say, oh, we're going to manage the adhd if we're not managing their comorbid anxiety. We're not going to help your child as much. Right. So as a pediatrician, hopefully you'll be able to really, for me, with my patients, I try to assess all of that and then figure out, who do I need to send this child to. Now, there's a few different ways ADHD can present, and these are not solid boxes. Right. I mean, our kids don't just fit into one little checkbox. We have to make sure that we understand our unique child. But there's a predominantly inattentive type, a predominantly hyperactive type, and then you can have a combined type. So when I think about the inattentive type, these are the kids that actually often might get missed until they're older, until there are more demands in school, more requirements for sustained attention and focus and executive functioning skills. But this might be the child that you call like the absent professor. Right. They're just kind of daydreaming, dreaming all the time, right at the window, you know, easily distracted. Right. You ask them to go up and get their shoe, you know, get their backpack for school, and they come back with a toy and a pencil and, you know, all these other things. But. But not their backpack. Right. Because they get distracted.

Totally. Do you find that more girls tend to be that inattentive type or is it a true.

It actually, it is true, yes. That more girls tend to be the inattentive type and often tend to be diagnosed a little bit later. Right. But you want to be on the lookout because. And these are. These are kids, they just lose everything. Right. They're like in La La Land and, oh, I put my pencil. Let's have one place for your pencils. And then they're all over the place and they can't find them. And then you have the predominantly hyperactive or impulsive type and These are kids who maybe more of a tendency towards a male predominance. These are kids who usually don't get missed because they're the ones unfortunately, who might be called out by the teacher a lot, right? The kind of troublemakers or the kids who are always in other kids spaces. And so, you know, and they're the ones who we really want to nurture because early on they may really start losing their self confidence in their ability to interact with their peers and with their parents and with their teachers and with their siblings. And so these are kids who are, what, what are, quote, kind of driven by a motor, right? They're go, go, go. Always kind of fidgeting in their seats, touching things, touching other people, blurting out because there's so much in their, in their heads going on. They might have trouble, you know, feeling, following, not following orders, but kind of interrupting. They can't wait. Right, so they do stick out more, right?

Yes. My son definitely was one of those. He used to bounce off the walls like a bouncy ball. Couldn't sit in his seat for breakfast or dinner. Up and down and up and down and up and down. So definitely know that one. Well, yeah.

And these are kids, you know, when they present to my office, even at a young age, you know, at 3, 4, 5, they're climbing onto my desk, I have a couch in my office, and they're climbing along the back of the couch and jumping off and jumping back on and you get kind of exhausted just watching.

So there's that type, then there's a combined type because you can have elements of both. And we also want to know that when we talk about not being able to focus, these are kids who can't necessarily focus on one particular activity, like a school classwork for a sustained amount of time, yet they can be hyper focused, right? Because I'll have parents who say, well, they can't have ADHD because they can sit on their Legos for like two hours, you know, or, you know, they can sit and draw their painting for, you know, all afternoon. But that's a hyper focus too, right? That's also because then those are the kids who, when they're doing that activity, they can't be pulled out, right? So we want to make sure that we understand all of these, but in all of this we want to make sure that we recognize, as you said, those superpowers, right? Those zones of genius, those amazing traits that if we can identify and not just scold or say, oh, it's because you're not Trying hard enough, we can really bring out those skills and help them find success. From a social standpoint, from an academic standpoint, and also from a personal growth standpoint.

Definitely. Look, I know that kids with adhd, a lot of them get, I think there's a statistic that says that they get 20,000 more negative messages said to them through one whole year against their peers. And, you know, to be constantly having that negative thing said to you, I can't even imagine what that would do to their self esteem. Yeah.

And, you know, just like with your son, when this is presenting in toddler years, which of course it will. Right. I mean, you will have.

It was. Yes.

But then we also don't want kids to start self identifying and labeling themselves as the troublemaker or the kid who nobody wants to have a play date with. Right. We really want to make sure that we are aware. And I know some parents are listening, oh, my gosh, that was my kid. Or that is my kid right now. And there's so much that we can do, which is why I'm so grateful that you have this podcast now for parents to really learn more broadly about the different aspects of adhd.

Yeah, definitely. And look, for me with my son, I knew from like the age, age of two, I always knew that there was something, something there. But I want to ask you, typically when a family comes to you wondering if their child does have adhd, just say they're three years old. Would you say, okay, well, let's explore that. Or what if they're four? You know, I, I speak to a lot of families and a lot of their pediatricians say, oh, well, we can't even die, we can't even diagnose until they're seven. Just, you know, we'll have to wait. What's your approach there? Or what is the. What's done in the industry?

Yeah. So it is true that at that young an age, they're not going to get a diagnosis, which, for better or for worse, I think that's okay. Right. That's okay to get that diagnosis at that young an age. But we also want to recognize if their symptoms or their clinical manifestations seem to be consistent with ADHD and they're not able to function optimally in school or with their friends or at home. There are so many things we can do. Not necessarily from a conventional pediatric standpoint, unfortunately, but from a more integrative, holistic, functional medicine standpoint. So when I have a child present like this, I don't just say, well, let's just Wait and see some things. I mean, there are some toddler behaviors that you do. You wait a little bit, right? You say, okay, let's just see, you know, how they're doing in school, the first few weeks of school, first couple months. It can be a difficult transition in preschool. So why don't we just wait and just see how things settle down. But if it's been six months or the second year of school and things are really still not going well, then I want to assess a couple of different things, actually, many, many different things. But the first thing I really look at is maybe this child is having some sensory issues that need to be managed, right? Because don't feel kind of solid and healthy and calm in their own bodies. They're not going to be able to sit still and have successful peer relationships. So I try to tease out what's going on and then really look through, do we want to do a functional medicine workup? Do we want to maybe try some different supplements? And we're going to go through, like, food is medicine one of the things we can do to optimize how your child's brain is functioning so that they can be, you know, as healthy and happy as they can be?

Definitely. Tell me about, you know, when you said maybe they're having some sensory challenges, you know, what does that look like? Tell me a bit more about that.

So, so many kids nowadays have sensory concerns, sensory processing issues. And what's really interesting is when I did my, you know, medical school and pediatric residency training, and, you know, I GUESS it's about 20, 25 years ago, there was no such diagnosis as sensory processing disorder. We didn't really even talk about sensory issues except when it came to things that were maybe more severe, like oral aversions and feeding problems in kids. So now what's really fascinating might be a term, but also a little bit makes me pause and think what's happening for our kids right now. I remember when my daughter was in kindergarten, I walked into her classroom and there was hardly a child that could sit still in their bodies for any amount of time. You know, there were kids rolling on the ground and, you know, making noises and fidgeting. And you might think, well, yeah, but they're five or six, right? But it was beyond, you know, what I would consider to be typical for a five year old. And it was in a way, very sad for me to see just because I knew those kids are not feeling good in their bodies, right? And so sensory issues can, can take different forms. Many kids have auditory, sensory Issues, Right. Loud sounds are covering their ears. You can't go into a public toilet because it's too loud to flush. Or parents need to be outside. They need to have the kids outside the home when you're running a blender or vacuuming. Right. So there's that. Then many kids might have tactile sensitivities like the tags on the shirt. I mean, these are parents who they know. Okay. Tagless shirts, seamless socks, only the softest of pants. Right.

Never anything turn that shirt inside out.

That's right. So. Right. And you do get to know your child. And of course. And you can make life comfortable for them by doing those things. Turning the shirt inside out. I remember I knew that I had to crank the shoelaces super tight for my son, otherwise it would just be a disaster, you know, leaving the door when he was younger. But we don't want to, you know, we want to make sure that we're not ignoring that. Okay. If we didn't provide this scaffolding and support, our kids could fall apart. Right. And so. And then there's the oral, the feeding sense, sensitivities. Right. The chewing and the textures. And certain kids need crunchy or certain kids only will have do soft. And when I think about that from a functional medicine standpoint, that is very often a sign of a zinc insufficiency or deficiency, which we know that there are certain nutritional deficiencies that are much more common in kids with adhd. So I really try to assess that. Whether it's through dietary intake. Oh, yeah, they're really not getting enough, you know, zinc sources like animal proteins and beans and, you know, pumpkin seeds, things like that in their diet or ideally through blood testing.

Okay. And I'm definitely going to dive deeper into that in a second. I want to just take a step back. If ADHD or sensory processing disorder or anxiety is suspected, how do families get a diagnosis? And from your point of view. I know what I think. But from your point of view, how important is it to have a diagnosis?

So really, really great question. There are a variety of parents, teacher scales, questionnaires that are really easy for parents to download just to get an idea. Are we really thinking this could be adhd? They all have their pros and cons, right? I mean, there's not a perfect questionnaire out there, but some parents might have heard of the Connor Scale or the Vanderbilt assessment. So those are easy for parents to kind of check off and teachers to check off just to see, are we seeing the same thing Our parents teacher Are we noticing similar things depending on how old your child is? If they're in school, you can request the school to do an evaluation. And this is where, you know, parents, all parents need to do is in writing with their signature to say, I'm requesting an evaluation for my child to determine whether they qualify for any services. Right. You know, the catchphrase that I'll use is an evaluation for a potential individualized education plan to optimize their success at school. Right. Because that is. That is the plan. Right. Because we, the schools, unfortunately not necessarily all focused on social success, but they are focused on academic success, their optimal potential. So those are keywords that you can use. And then you can do a broader neuropsychological evaluation, which I do think can be very, very worthwhile. The pros of getting a complete neuropsychological evaluation are that you really get a thorough assessment of not just the ADHD symptoms, but also other anxieties. Are there other comorbid conditions that we need to be thinking about? There are also educational assessments that will happen, and these are also developmentally appropriate. So ones for younger kids, one for older kids. And a neuropsychologist can really assess the different areas of strengths and different areas of concerns for your child. That can really help guide how the school and teachers can optimize the way they're teaching your child. Right. Because everyone learns differently now. The cons are that they're really time consuming.

I remember back for my son, I think we were. We had to go four different appointments with him for that assessment. Yes.

Yeah. And then I. And really, probably the biggest con is that it's expensive.

And insurance doesn't always cover it. So that, that is a challenge. But, you know, the question of how important is a diagnosis. I remember when, you know, when I was starting out in residency and pediatrics, nobody wanted a diagnosis. I mean, not that you want your kids to just be labeled, but there was a sense, are you going to necessarily label them? We just don't want that on the record at all. There's been a shift in mindset now for the most part, where it's not. You know, there's so many children and adults now being recognized with ADHD that wasn't discovered until later. So I do feel that there's less of a, quote, stigma involved, you know, and I see that even in my kids friends who say, oh, yeah, you know, so and so is add and so and so is taking medicines and so and so has anxiety and they're taking, doing X, Y and Z. So thankfully, there is much less of a stigma in these, quote, mental health conditions.

Yes. So important in today's society.

So important. And I will say, you know, when you have a diagnosis and you can understand what additional services your child could really benefit from in school, that actually makes it so much easier as they get older to have that paper trail or have that documentation so that they can get those same accommodations in high school without question for their SATs or ACTs or exams or whatever it is, and college too, if we're really thinking ahead. So it's so much easier for me when I'm writing out a form for a child to who's going off to college, saying these are the accommodations that they had written into their school plan and this is what they do best with. And so please, please continue. These accommodations in college, so easy. If they haven't had that paper trail, it's a lot harder. It's a lot harder because some parents, you know, they'll pull their kids out of public school and go to private schools that are really nurturing, provide all the services, the support that your child needs so you don't have to have a paper trail. I still, though, will often recommend, you know what, maybe just get an evaluation through the public school district just so at least you have that in paper and it can follow your child. If they need supports in high school and college, they, by that point they may have figured out their own way of supporting themselves, that they're like, I don't need that. Those accommodations, that's fine, but I'd rather that they have those to say I don't need those, than to really need them and have to fight for them.

You know, when my son was diagnosed, you know, this was before we started the natural journey of, of reducing ADHD symptoms naturally. But he got a 504 plan and he doesn't need the 504 plan anymore. But we've still got that in the paper trail and. But he doesn't need it anymore. And so, but that, yeah, I totally agree with you and I wasn't actually aware that you can get those accommodations in college. So that's really, really good to know. So now, you know, they've got the diagnosis, they've got accommodations at school. From your point of view as an integrative and functional mental medicine practitioner or, you know, pediatrician, what is your approach to adhd?

My approach is really to take a more personalized, more individualized approach. If you. Now, for parents who may be a little bit further on into their ADHD journey with their child. And you've either your child is on medications, which we'll talk about that. There's a time and a place for everything, right? I'm not about zero medications. I'm about individualized plans for kids. But if you've started medications and they didn't work, or you're on them and they're helping but you're wondering, is there more or if they're having side effects, either your pediatrician or your psychiatrist prescribes the medications. There's not to disparage prescribers because I prescribe ADHD medicines as well. But there's not much science to what you choose, right? It's almost like kind of throwing a dart. And are we going to start with Concerta? Are we going to start with Strattera? Are we going to start with, with Vyvanse? You start with what you start, you see if it works. If it doesn't work, you try something else. Now with genomic testing, I do use that to guide, but that could be a whole other conversation. But that can help guide the medication choice a bit more. But unfortunately, conventional pediatrics still tends to be a one size fits all approach.

And with functional medicine, with integrative medicine, it's really about unfolding your childhood child's unique story. What's going on there? I can see that there are certain areas that are more common to be imbalanced in kids with adhd. And then we assess, is that what's going on with your kid or what.

Are some of those areas?

So I always look at gut health, right? With the gut brain connection so important, many parents are surprised to know that, you know, up to 90% of all of our neurotransmitters are made by our gut bacteria, our gut microbiome. So when we think of add, we're often thinking of dopamine, you know, the neurotransmitter that helps us pay attention and focus, keeps us motivated, helps us stay on task. But also, you know, many kids with ADHD will have imbalances in their serotonin as well, you know, which helps reduce anxiety, helps us keep calm, helps us with sleep. Well, if your gut isn't healthy, you're not going to have enough neurotransmitters to keep your brain healthy. So that's one thing, right? We look at the gut. The next thing is always first prioritizing food and lifestyle as medicine because, you know, I can throw all the supplements or the medications I want at your child, but you, you can't out supplement an unhealthy diet and lifestyle.

Yeah, 100 agree. I say that quite often and I host a free Facebook group, the ADHD Parent Nutrition Support Group and there's about 18, 000 members in there and we have so many people just saying, oh, what supplement can I do to help focus? What supplement can I do to reduce, reduce anxiety? There is not one supplement that is going to help with focus. Diet, from my point of view, is the foundation of everything 100%.

Now here's the thing. Oh, because then the targeted nutritional supplements and other natural therapies like homeopathy or essential oils, those are a part of the picture. But you need that foundation, right? If you don't have a solid foundation, if your house is built on sand, what's going to happen? Eventually it's going to start shifting and start cracking. But you want your house built on a solid foundation and then you build up. But sometimes changing diet and changing lifestyle is the most challenging thing to do. So I get that. You know, it can be easier to have your child take a capsule and so that might be a start. What I tell parents is start with the lowest hanging fruit first. Start with a place where you as a parent are going to feel like you have a success there so you can keep going and stay motivated for the long haul. This is a journey, right? It's not a sprint, it's. It's a marathon. Right? And then also, you know, I can, I can help guy parents and when we look at, you know, your kid's story to see, I think if you made this tweak, that might make a big impact. So maybe your child notices and then your child is motivated to keep going.

Yeah, no, that's a, that's a really, really good point to bring up. I always tell families that Rome wasn't built in a day and you don't need to make all the changes on day one either. And you know, I think that that's, for me, what was missing when I was going through it was just that support system of making all of those little changes. And now that's what I do. Why I do what I do is because I want to give families that holding hand and making those, especially those dietary changes, because it can be hard. So what do parents, you know, need to know about that? That food is medicine for ADHD in particular. What are some of those steps, tips that you like to give?

The first thing I have parents think about is what is going to nourish your child's brain. What are the things that your brain really needs for optimal health, optimal functioning. And the first thing is fats, right? Healthy fats. 60% of our brain is made of fats. And I think about 60% of our body's total cholesterol is. Is stored in our brain. And so we want to make sure that we're getting all this healthy fats, not trans fats, not a ton of saturated fats, we're getting in those really healthy fats. Cholesterol is not a bad word when it comes to kids, but especially kids with add, Right, Especially kids with add. So your cholesterol sources, I mean, egg yolks, you want to have shellfish, if your kids eat shellfish. And then we think about the Omega 3 is such a fatty acids, which are a very common deficiency in kids and adults in general, but absolutely in kids with adhd. And here's the thing, you might think, well, we're having 1, 2 servings of fatty fish a week. So why does one child have ADHD and one child not? Because they're eating the same things. Well, we all are biochemically unique. And your child who has an ADHD brain might need a lot more of those omega 3s than your child who doesn't. Right. And so we always want to think, you know, what does this child in front of me need? And so omega 3 essential fatty acids, in particular DHA, docohexaenoic acid, DHA, found in fish oils, is really important for supporting healthy brain connections and supporting new brain growth. Right. Making all those good new connections in our channel child's brain. And 90% of the fatty acids in our child's brain is DHA. Right. So it's really important making sure that you're getting in, you know, fatty fish, being mindful of, you know, wild, sustainably caught fish, you know, low mercury fish. Right. But at many kids, I would say virtually all kids with ADHD will benefit from an Omega 3 supplement because this is something where their brain is just like, I need more, I need more. Right. So that's.

There are so many scientific studies actually supporting that for ADHD as well.

Yes. A lot of people don't recognize the gut brain connection. And parents say, yeah, they don't have tummy aches. No. Their poops are fine, no constipation. I'm like, you know what? We still need to support their gut still. Right. Because of that gut brain connection. So there are a variety of different probiotics that have been studied to improve adhd, anxiety, sleep symptoms. Some people coin them psychobiotics.

Right.

Just because they're supporting this neuropsychiatric connection and getting fermented foods. Fermented foods have been found to reduce anxiety. Right. So try out different things like sauerkraut, kimchi, miso, tempeh, kombucha. I mean, there's a variety. And we just keep trying.

Yes. And you might be thinking out there, listeners, that, oh, my gosh, how am I going to get my child to eat a sauerkraut? But it is just about keep trying, because it can take 15 to 20 times for a kid to accept a new flavor and new texture. And so don't just if they go, yuck, I don't like it. Keep trying.

Yes. And then, you know, we spoke about some of the nutritional deficiencies that are really common. So making sure you optimize those. I do really like to, when possible, get a blood draw. There's a numbing cream with lidocaine. I definitely recommend using a numbing cream on the elbow creases before, just so you do not want that first blood draw to be traumatic, because then that might be your only chance for a while. But with the numbing cream, it can go so smoothly.

And is that a prescription numbing cream or do you just get that?

Yes and no. You know, it's a prescription cream, but you can actually on Amazon, there's, you know, it seems like they're geared towards or marketed towards women who wax. Right. To reduce.

Okay. Yep.

But there's a cream that I've. I've ordered online. 1. Because even with prescription, sometimes it can be exorbitantly expensive to get this ridiculous little tube of numbing cream, but sometimes it's just cheaper to get it on Amazon online. So there's a cream called Numb Master. Numb Master. Right.

Thank you for that tip.

It does what it says, right? It does what it says. But, you know, the three nutrients that I look at really closely are zinc, like we just mentioned magnesium, because it's so important for calming the brain, and iron. Kids with ADHD have been found to have lower levels of iron. So optimizing those are really important. And you can get it from foods, too. There are lots of amazing food sources, but like we were discussing before, some kids just need a little more than they can get from food alone.

Wonderful tips. Thank you, Elisa. So I know you mentioned earlier, there's the diet, then there's also the lifestyle side of things. So can we sort of dive a little bit deep into those lifestyle factors? What are they and what do you think you know, is important for kids to specifically with adhd.

Yes. I just want to just quickly touch on two food things I think are hitters for the parents with adhd. Because if you could do one thing that I think could make a huge impact for your kid is to get out the artificial dyes, flavors and preservatives. Right. If you just did that one step, I've had parents come back and say, that's all we did. We didn't change your diet. We accept to get rid of the artificial. You know, we looked at the package, get rid of the artificial red dye number 40, the flavors and preservatives, and they come back and say, oh my gosh, so much more calm. Oh my gosh. They'll actually sit and snuggle. They'll let me kiss them. Right. So that difference, because we know that for kids with ADHD, like 1 in 3 kids could benefit from just eliminating artificial food dyes.

I think everyone could.

Well, 100% for sure. Yeah.

No, sorry, I jumped over that one. Oh my gosh. Like, I'm a. That is what I preach and teach every single day of the year. So how could I miss that? But that and, and also reducing the amount of sugar and, you know, not focusing like taking away from the artificial sugar and more focusing on those natural sugars. But totally agree with you that that is like the number one tip for sure.

For sure. And then the lifestyle, because for some of our kids. Well, I'm not going to say some. All of us, lifestyle is also medicine, but especially for brains that are not as healthy and happy as they could be. So sleep, it's kind of almost cliche to say get enough sleep, but the vast majority of kids and adults are sleep deprived. I mean, that's just. Our lives are just not conducive to getting high quality restorative sleep. And being sleep deprived decreases our neurotransmitter levels, including dopamine. Right. So that's really important parents to remember, especially as kids with adhd, oftentimes as they get older, get on those screens can be. So that dopamine, that need for that dopamine rush, will make them more susceptible to screen addiction and, you know, video game addiction and sugar addiction. So we want to.

You have a little bit. You need some more, you need some more. And that's where. And I hear a lot of families that their kids are addicted to screens or their kids are addicted to sugar. But I just want to go on to one point in sleep and dopamine. I know when I don't get Enough sleep. All I want to do is eat something sweet or something carby. That's because I need that dopamine.

That's right. It's so true. So I mean, if really, if you could bottle up the health benefits of sleep and regular exercise, I mean, you and I probably wouldn't be on this podcast. I would be like, oh, we don't need to talk about.

So an exercise really is therapeutic for many kids with adhd. And parents will tell you that, oh my gosh, if they didn't get out for a run or on the trampoline, they are a mess at night. Parents will often just even subconsciously know, I need to go to the park two, three times with my kid. We need to do something active. They need to be in multiple physical activities. But exercise actually enhances how dopamine, dopamine acts on our brain cells. So we know kids with ADHD tend to have less dopamine around, but exercise will improve that response. So we really want to make exercise a regular part of our kids day. And, you know, better yet, just make it a family affair. Right. Because when we're, especially if we have more than one child at home, we never want one child to be felt like they're being singled out because of something that's going on with them. And, you know, it might be adhd, it might be anxiety, it might be, you know, being overweight. I mean, whatever it is, we just don't ever want that one child to feel like I'm the one that's, you know, bringing everyone down in the house. Right. I'm the one that's making everyone exercise every day. Right. So we make it a family affair. Right. Okay, it's exercise time. We're going to go on our family hike, you know, and just really, you know, make it, make it beneficial for the whole family.

Yeah. Because also that builds that family unit, that family happiness, because it is this whole approach with adhd. It's not just nutrition, it's not just supplements, it's not just exercise, it's not just sleep, but also it's parenting. And it is that family unity and building that family love, because that's a big part of it as well.

It is 100% right. That is so important because, you know, as we said, this is a journey, Right. Your child's adhd, they have ADHD and pregnancy. School or elementary, it's not suddenly going to magically go away. Middle school or high school or in college.

Yeah, definitely. Now, you touched on screens. Do you have anything else to Add to that.

Well, so the screen themselves, I mean, there's several things with. That's probably a whole episode and I am not going to say zero screens because that's not life right now, that's not reality. And the fact is many of our kids are doing their homework on screens and they're doing their research on screens, so we can't say no. And the other thing too is there are some benefits to some screens. I mean, look at the pandemic. For a lot of boys, the way they stayed in touch with their friends was through their online video games. And for girls, it was mostly social media. So when it's just interactive, there are some things that are protective. With screens and social media and video games for kids, it's when they're doing it together, right? That community is so important. So they found that the increase in anxiety and I mean, even, you know, suicidal thinking that can occur with social media is mitigated by face to face interactions. And you know, being on a team sport, we're actually doing the most, most protective things. And with video games too, you know, if you can, if you can be with your child or if they're with their friends. Right. I never want someone, you know, child gaming on their own or just scrolling through social media on their own if we can help it. Now, video games in particular, because that's for a lot of ADHD kids, that's the area of concern is the video games. The rewiring that occurs and the change in dopamine levels that occur with video games does make your brain want it more and more and more, which is that dopamine rush that we were talking about. So your kids are more likely to get addicted, but then it becomes a vicious cycle. And so if you're seeing those, I would say the ideal time to talk about video games and phones and social media is before they're old enough to have them. I mean, my kids, right, because think about it, at what age do your kids are asking you, can I have a phone, mommy? I mean, that's like sometimes preschool, when can I have a phone?

Right.

Can I have a phone just like you? Right. So that we start talking. Okay. Appropriate cell phone use, appropriate social media use. But when you are able to play beating games, we're gonna have some limits where we're gonna make sure our brain doesn't get stuck on these. Right. And some kids really do need more support with their video game addictions. Right. I mean, that's just.

Yeah, definitely. Because especially kids with adhd, I know through the pandemic. There were a lot of families out there, but that's what we. Everyone needed to do, you know, just to get through the day sometimes. But sometimes even just having a video game holiday is good because it doesn't sort of helps the body raise detox.

Right. Which is really, really hard. Right. I know, but for the whole family, you know, we used to go on this camping trip pre pandemic, where there really. There's no reception, like, nothing. It's like a forced digital detox and you're out and, you know, up in your Mendocino, beautiful, you know, outdoor hiking, you know, rafting. The first two days, they're tough. They're tough for adults and for kids. I'm not going to lie. Like, you know, in your idle time, you're like, oh, let me look at myself, you know, I mean, no, you can't see that.

Right.

So you kind of look at each other like, what do we do?

We have to actually talk right now.

But by the third day, it is. I mean, it's magical. And we also know, you know, there's the blue light from the screens. Right. I mean, we're talking about how restorative sleep is. But that light, if you're going to use. If some kids need to be on their computers at night doing homework, make sure that you've turned that night light setting on so it dims to that yellow. And ideally, no screens for at least an hour before bedtime.

Totally agree with that one, for sure. Now, I know we've only got a limited amount of time. I just want to quickly touch on, you know, the role of medication in treating adhd.

Yeah. So with integrative pediatrics, we acknowledge there is a time and a place for everything. And sometimes medications really do make a big difference for some kids. What I suggest, my ideal situation when I'm working with families is to get all of our ducks in a row. So we're optimizing as much as we can. And then if medications are needed, which sometimes in high school, things are getting really intense and kids are like, maybe I might want to try. I always like to try medications when kids can tell us how their brain is feeling and what the difference is, positives and negatives. And when we have our foundation set, oftentimes we find that we can use much lower doses of medicines and also reduce many of the side effects that come along with higher dosages. So that would be the idea. Now, sometimes I have parents who come in and their kids are already on ADHD medicines, which is that's okay. That's fine. But obviously they're coming to me because it's not quite doing the trick. Right. And so that's where, again, getting all of your ducks in a row, optimizing the foundation, parents might find, oh, we don't actually need this medicine right now. Or they might find, maybe we can try going on a different dose. Or the medication works even better. What's fascinating with zinc is that there was one study that found that zinc actually can improve the effect of stimulant medications for kids with adhd. That's where, again, even if your child is on medications right now and you're thinking, is it even worth looking into all of this? 100%, yes. Because either it will make your child's medication work better, or it might reduce the need for your child's medication.

And that's exactly what happened with us, Elisa. My son was on three meds, and his doctor wanted to give a fourth medicine to treat the symptoms of the other medications. And not until we optimized his body, reduced inflammation in his gut, in his brain, fixed his diet. He's now in middle school. He hasn't been on medicine for years is. And he's thriving. So, yeah, even if you're on meds, this approach is beneficial for anyone.

Absolutely. And I do want to just, you know, tell. Tell the mom is listening. That being on a medication is not a failure.

No, not at all.

I have some moms who, you know, when we're finally at the point where we're thinking, oh, maybe we want to try medications, they'll. I mean, they're heartbroken, like. But this is what I was trying to avoid. And so, you know what. What we are going with, what your child's brain is telling us he or she needs. Right. And if medications are needed at some point, that's okay. But like I said, like, you've found, right. Oftentimes we get our ducks in a row and we find that need slips away.

Yeah, definitely. And that is a good point. You know, there's no. There's no two sides to this. You've got to do what's best for your family in that moment. And it's not. It's definitely not a failure. Now, Elisa, I have absolutely so enjoyed this conversation with you. Before we finish up, I just want to see if you've got any wonderful words of wisdom as a pediatrician and as a mum for families embarking on this journey.

You know, I would say that the most important thing for you and your child to sit down and periodically take an inventory of all of your child's strengths. Right. All of these things that maybe right now when they're young don't seem like strengths but help your child to see how that this one area, the fact that they can't slow their brain down, you know what that's going to make them so creative. That's the most successful entrepreneur or the most successful X, Y and Z. Right. So always really trying to focus on their strengths and finding ways and, you know, activities when they're young that they can really capitalize on those strengths. Right. So your child with adhd, they may not thrive in, you know, math club, but they may excel, you know, maybe in robotics if they have the hyper focus or they may in color guard where they're moving their bodies. Right. So always trying to give your child opportunities to succeed.

Oh, I love that, that so much. Thank you so much. Elisa, Lisa, this has been just wonderful having you here and I definitely would love to have you back talking about another topic. I could go on and on and on and we've gone over time today, but thank you so much. I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation.

Thank you, Dana. This is, I'd be honored to come back anytime and thank, thank you all for listening and really being on this journey, you know, for your child.

Fantastic. Now everyone, thanks for tuning in to thank you this week's episode of the Soaring Child. I'm your ADHD health practitioner. Keep on thriving.

Thank you for listening to the Soaring Child podcast today. To learn more about how to help your child with ADHD soar using natural strategies, visit our website at adhd thriveinstitute.com and follow us on social media at ADHD Thrive Institute.