175: Healthy Kids, Happy Kids. With Dr. Elisa Song

You're listening to the Art of Parenting Podcast. I'm your host, Jeanne Marie Pinal. Welcome and thank you for joining me. I created this podcast along with everything I do@yourparentingmentor.com to support and inspire you to be the best parent you can be. I know for a fact and from experience that parenting was never meant to be done alone. From conception to preschool. My mission is to give you the tools, strategies and knowledge to embrace and elevate your parenting experience. I'm dedicated to supporting, inspiring, and guiding you to nurture your child's immense potential with as much joy and ease as humanly possible. Make sure to take time to check out all of the resources I have gathered for you in the show notes as well as on my website, YourParentingMentor.com and be sure to get on my email list so you do not miss a single episode and other products and events I curate specifically for you. And please do not hesitate to reach out if you have any questions, concerns, or feedback. A warm welcome to you and thanks for tuning in.

Hello and welcome back to the Art of Parenting Podcast. I'm your host, Jeanne Marie Panel, and Today I have Dr. Elisa Song and Dr. Song. I am just so thrilled to have you on the show. I have been following you for years. You are just my, like, health guru for children. So I'm just so happy and congratulation on your latest book, Healthy Kids, Happy Kids. And I'm excited to get into this conversation. So thank you for making the time to be here with us today.

Oh, thank you for having me. I mean, such an honor for me and just especially reaching parents who are so interested in parenting and education and getting their kids started off on the best footing. There's so much more that we can do that I think a lot of parents and even pediatricians are not aware of. So I'm just so excited to get this word out.

Definitely. So, as I always like to get started, I love for my guests to define what the art of parenting means to them.

So I am a mom of two kids now, 14 and 12 and a half, and they have taught me a ton. And I think the really and truly the art of parenting for me is really being able to go inward and listen to my inner voice and trust even when I'm getting conflicting advice and even conflicting ideas from my own self. It's just trusting innately that the decisions I'm making are the best for my child and our family. And when I don't listen to that inner voice, I always end up regretting some part of the decision I made. So it is about going inward and reflecting because there's so much noise out there and, and you know, so much of, oh, you should do this or you shouldn't do that. And yes, we want to listen to that, but then we want to make it our own.

Right. And it's fascinating because what you say, I mean, I agree a hundred percent, but it's not always that easy to quiet all the chatter and to, you know, like you say, go inward like it's a real practice. So thank you for sharing that. And before we get started, I would love if you could just introduce yourself and a little bit of your background and how you came to do the work that you're doing today.

Yeah. So I am an integrative pediatrician and I practice pediatric functional medicine. I actually incorporate conventional pediatrics with nutrition, diet and lifestyle, herbal medicine, homeopathy, essential oils, acupressure, working really with families and children's preferences and desires. And so I began my practice in 2004, so 20 years ago as an integrated pediatrician. And there weren't a lot of us out there at that time. There's still not enough of us, but it's growing. And I came to this work really straight out of residency with that desire to take the best of what we know of conventional medicine. We know that, for instance, things like antibiotics can be life saving. And yet now we are recognizing more and more that there are many unintended, sometimes lifelong consequences of conventional interventions if we are not aware. And so my goal as a pediatrician and as a mom is just to really help parents and kids understand what it means to thrive in this day and age, you know, what it means to truly be well and to look forward to a future of health, which seems increasingly difficult, but it is possible if we know the research, but also know the steps to. To move forward in that way.

Right. Thank you for that. Because it's true that I think we've gone so far in kind of, you know, I don't want to say traditional medicine because it's not traditional medicine that the modern medicine. Right. It's what we've come to think is like the conventional. I think we're discovering that it's not all just great and that we need to balance things out and that when we take an antibiotic, what do we take to counteract what it's doing to our bodies and so forth. So I know you talk a lot about that. One thing that I would really like us to kind of Maybe delve a little deeper is you talk a lot about the microbiome. So first of all, I would love for you to maybe just clearly explain what that is to maybe a listener who doesn't know this term. And then how do we make sure that our children's microbiome stays healthy, thrives, so that we can have long lasting health?

Yes, for sure. Because many people have probably heard the term microbiome. It's, I think it's hard to not, you know, scan your news and not hear something or read something about the microbiome. And certainly the vast majority of people at this point have heard of probiotics and, you know, have an idea that gut health is important. You know, what I love about the integrative work that I now have the honor to really practice is that we're looking at your whole child. And, you know, conventional medicine has really kind of broken apart your child into different systems. There's the brain and there's their hormones and there's their GI tract and there's their skin. But we're not putting all the pieces together in that whole child approach, which is in parenting, you're not just trying to look at your child's brain one day and then say, oh, now I'm going to look at your stomach and look. I mean, we are parenting the whole child. And so when we think about this and how it relates to medicine, when we understand what the microbiome is and how that connects everything in your child's body, brain, immune system, it creates a more cohesive picture of how we're trying to help our kids thrive. So the microbiome is different than the microbiota. So this is just a little technical definition, but microbiota are the actual microorganisms. They are the trillions of tiny microscopic bacteria and yeast and even viruses that reside inside our gut. And I mean, they probably outnumber us maybe by 10 to 1 in terms of cell number. Now they live in our gut in an ecosystem. They have a community around themselves. And so that is our microbiome. Our microbiome is this ecosystem of all of the organisms that live in their gut, all of the genes that they bring with them, and also the foundations that they bring with them. So if we think about it as, you know, let kids know, I mean, kids nowadays in school, they learn about our world's ecosystem and how important it is to take care of our world. Because we are quickly coming to a place where our world is no longer going to sustain us. If we don't learn how to take care of our world. Now a very similar ecosystem lives inside our gut, and that's our gut microbiome. And this ecosystem is there. We evolved with them, and their sole job is really to keep us healthy and happy and to inform our immune system and our brain how to be healthy and happy. And so, just like we take care of our external world's ecosystem, we need to take care of our microbiome's ecosystem so that they can do their job. And in our modern world, there's so many factors that are disrupting our children's and even our own adult gut microbiomes that we are, again, getting to a point where if we don't wake up and take care of our gut microbiome, they're no longer going to be able to sustain health for us. And that is what happens for, you know, a lot of kids with chronic health concerns. And as we get older, so many of us are facing autoimmunity or chronic digestive issues or, you know, on the other end of life, we have our sandwich generation of parents with young children to care for and aging parents. Our aging parents are not aging well for the most part. And so if we understand that, setting that foundation of taking care of our microbiome, our internal ecosystem with ripple effects on our immune system and our brain, we have a positive, hopeful, and more clear path forward.

Okay, and what have you seen to be the decline of this good, healthy microbiome? Because you've stated several times that it's kind of not as healthy as we would like it to be. So first of all, like, why are we going in that direction when we should be going, you know, in a more positive direction? And then secondly is, what can we be doing, maybe on a daily basis for ourselves, but mostly for our children, to make sure that we do develop this healthy gut health, as you call it. From, from what I understand, that's what microbiome is really.

That's right.

Gut health. Okay.

That's right. Yeah. So when we think about, you know, so I'm going to just share a couple of studies that show the importance of a healthy gut microbiome. And sometimes we can only know this when the gut microbiome has been disrupted. And I always, at this point, I just want to make sure that parents who are listening, especially mothers who are listening and thinking, oh, my gosh, you know, this sounds like my child. Well, many of us will have these moments where we think, oh, my gosh, why didn't I know? I wish I'd known. I Wish my OB knew. I wish my pediatrician knew. I wish I knew. And we can't go back in time and, and change what's happened, but what we can do is know now, oh, okay, this is part of my child's story. This is how things evolved for them. And now I know what to do. So we're coming from that place. But we do know that, you know, antibiotics given in early infancy, in that first six months of life, which can immediately disrupt the developing gut microbiome for an infant, can increase the risk of significantly of virtually every single allergic disease by the time kids are four. So eczema, asthma, hay fever, anaphylactic food allergies. So any of these, because 80% of your child's immune system is in their gut. And the way that their gut microbiome is developing in those early stages actually communicates and informs how their immune system should develop. So we want a healthy gut microbiome from infancy so that your child's developing immune system, instead of tipping over into an allergic state, can say, oh, I'm going to, you know, march forward in a more healthy, optimal state. We also know that antibiotics given early in life, especially within, again, that first six months, but at any time in early childhood, can significantly increase the risk for mental health concerns in our children by the time they're older or, or teenagers by up to 50% in some cases. We know this in adults too, right? But with our mental health crisis, we have to know when, you know, most of our, quote, brain chemicals like serotonin are actually made by our gut microbiome. If your kids are struggling with behavioral concerns, sensory concerns, you know, attention and focus concerns, mood concerns, we have to look at their gut microbiome.

Now, one thing, because I'm kind of going, oh, my goodness, this is crazy, but what's the quantity of antibiotics? When you say antibiotics in early childhood, I mean, it's not just an ear infection where that was the only way to maybe clear it up. I mean, I'm sure you have other ways, but I know, I remember, and this is a personal anecdote, is I had my first child in France where I had a homeopathic pediatrician. That's what was available. And I remember actually meeting with her when I was expecting and she set me up and everything. And I remember that when my child had like an acute ear infection, I remember specifically she said, let's wait it out 24 hours, let's try this first. And if we can't, then we'll go to antibiotics. So I Guess my question is if, I mean, I did end up having to give her antibiotics that specific time. We're not talking about those, like smaller amounts or are we already.

We are, because, you know, we even know this in adult studies, even just one round can increase the risk. Now, it is true that the more the number of rounds of antibiotics given, the higher the risk with each subsequent round. Now, we can mitigate that risk by learning how to restore your child's microbiome or your, even as an adult, your microbiome after antibiotics. And that's where to say, I mean, sometimes the antibiotics are absolutely necessary. And like your homeopathic pediatrician, you know, I have a whole toolkit that I discuss and recommend for parents if they're grappling with something like an ear infection, where we know that many times ear infections, even bacterial ones, can get better on their own. But we have all of these natural tools that can help get your child better faster. At the same time, sometimes antibiotics are going to be needed. And so we don't want to be afraid of using antibiotics. That's not the goal. It's not to say don't ever, ever, but is to say, look, let's be informed, let's use the antibiotics when we know that is necessary. We want to be judicious, not overuse antibiotics. And when we know that it's necessary, we're going to take it confidently. We're going to say, you know, finish the course, we're going to treat what's happening. And now we're empowered because we're going to take the steps to make sure that your child or your microbiome that was depleted from the antibiotics, you can come right back and be restored.

Okay, perfect. And on that same vein, I'm thinking, you know, when you were talking about the six month old, I'm thinking that that child is most often still breastfeeding. Right. So they're getting the mother's microbiome correct through the breast milk. I heard you recently on another podcast talk about this and it fascinated me that you were talking about that the microbiome of breast milk today, it's not as healthy as it was, you know, maybe a hundred years ago. So I'm thinking that it's the same issues that we haven't really gotten into yet as to why it's in decline. But it sounds like if we're going to have children, we need to start thinking about our own gut health.

Yes.

Before we're expecting, basically.

Absolutely. In my dream world, and hopefully we're moving towards this every fertility center, every obgyn, every pediatrician, as teenage girls and boys are launching into adulthood and thinking about their futures and maybe thinking one day about having children, could understand how to optimize their own microbiomes. And it's not just the moms, it's also the dads too. Optimizing microbiomes for women, though, it's also about, you know, their gut microbiome, vaginal microbiomes, and yes, our breast glands have their own microbiomes. So. And that, you know, before, before we even start to conceive, first of all, it will actually make the process of conception easier. I mean, we have so many problems with fertility. And both of my children were IVF journeys. And if I had known to, you know, put a pause, because in that moment when you're on your fertility journey, it feels like, oh, my gosh, I'm running out of time. I have to just keep going, going, going. But if you could pause for three months, six months to optimize your microbiome, optimize, you know, your diet and lifestyle and vagus nerve and all of that. I've seen so many women who fertility concerns are so much less minimal. They become pregnant and hold the pregnancy so much more easily again, because we know that, you know, the gut microbiome has these ripple effects on hormones and blood sugar regulation and inflammation and many of the factors that are contributing to fertility issues in the first place.

Okay, so, yes, so it's really is. I mean, what you're talking about, what you're writing about and have devoted your life to, is really critical to everyone's health from day one. Yes, thank you for that. What are some maybe tools or things that we can do as parents to ensure that we are helping our children develop a healthy microbiome or just continue to have a healthy one, you know.

In our day to day, for sure now. And it is, as you said, it's day to day, right? It is. And so what I talk about in the book, I really want this to be a family affair. And, you know, we do things for our children often that we don't prioritize for ourselves. But in doing this as a family, you know, the whole family can get healthier and just feel more vibrant overall. And so in the book, I talk about the five things for microbiome magic. And these five things, they are things that we and our kids do every single day. So I'm not asking a busy mom or a child or a teenager to do one more thing to add on, you know, that your teenager may give you the eye roll or you as a mom feel like, oh my gosh, I'm so overwhelmed. This is just, I can't add one more thing to my plate. The five things we do every day, we have to eat, every day, we have to breathe, every day we move, sleep, sleep and hydrate, all of those things. But if we learn from the evidence how to do those things that nurture and nourish our gut microbiome and do them in a really fun way for the whole family, then every day, our lifestyle, our dietary habits are creating microbiome resilience. And I say microbiome resilience because, you know, we didn't touch upon what other factors besides antibiotics can disrupt our gut microbiome. But it's all the things that we're exposed to in our modern world, right? I mean, the ultra processed foods, you know, psychological stress, pesticides in our food, environmental toxins, many of these things are simply unavoidable, 100% if we're going to live in this world. And so the key is not to live in an isolated bubble trying to shield yourself from everything, but really to create that foundation of microbiome resilience so that when your child does get exposed to their friend's birth birthday party, where they're having, you know, they have a bag of Skittles and the blue frosted cupcake, and then there's the ice cream cake and all the things you're like, oh, no. But you can relax, you can stay more calm and say, okay, I know there's going to be some disruption there. Their brain might feel it, their gut microbiome is going to feel it. But they have the foundations that their gut microbiome, we can just. They'll bounce right back in the next couple of days, right?

So just having healthy habits, those five magic, like you say, are just things that we already do. We already, Yep, yep, we already do them. So for me, maybe movement is something that we could work on, maybe more, because I feel that we're pretty sedentary and that maybe a walk after dinner would be great. I remember doing that as a child. That, that was like the digestive walk with my grandmother in the countryside. And, you know, in the city we don't do that as much because we end up maybe sitting and watching something. Our habits have altered a little bit. So it's just tweaking, maybe those habits, it's tweaking.

And I love that you mentioned the movement piece because, you know, I put all of these in A wheel, I call it the wheel of whole gut resilience. And so with the wheel, it doesn't matter where you start, you can choose any of these five things and the wheel keeps moving forward so that if your child, I mean I speak about the microbiome champions to get in, you know, more fiber, phytonutrients, fermented foods and which of the microbiome mischief makers to keep out. But if you have one of the many, many kids who are very selective and thinking about getting something different onto their plate is really causing a lot of stress, well then don't start with that. You know, start with movement or start with working on hydration or start with working on some mindfulness because each of those engaging our vagus nerve and regulating our nervous system, system, exercise, sleep, hydration, all of those have been shown to benefit your microbiome, even independent of diet. So it's not to say that if your child or teenager is living largely on sugars and ultra processed foods, yes, we need to work on that. But we can work on some of the other things first. And then interestingly, changing the diet becomes easier because the microorganisms, there are certain bacteria or yeast in your gut that can literally trigger different food cravings and want you to crave more sugar or crave more of the salt or the fat or, you know, whatever it is. So simply by shifting your child's microbiome in other ways that often can make it easier then to work on some of their palates.

Right. And for me, I mean when I work with parents, I know I always try to encourage them and remind them that what they bring into their home, what they put into their fridge, it's a lifestyle choice. It's a choice that we make. Right. You don't have to buy all those processed foods. Like personally I don't have any in my home. I never did. I've never had soft drinks and you know, these little juice things and all of that because to me that's just great marketing of make your children happy and give them this, you know, toxic stuff that.

Yeah, well it's, I mean parents know, right? When if you think about the hangry or like the, you know, the explosive, like, you know, I need that whatever that rainbow unicorn cracker, you know, I mean, that is not your child in control of what food they want to eat. And I talk to teenagers a lot about this, that the foods that they're craving, you bet that there are food scientists in the packaged food industries that are making sure that children and Adults no longer have control over the foods that they want to purchase and eat. I mean, it is not no longer a criminal choice. Right. And so when a lot of times for teenagers, that does click. Because what do teenagers want? I mean, what do all kids want? They want to be their own person. Right. They want to be independent. And so this is, I mean, the same thing with video games. I mean, those game manufacturers, they know exactly how to make your brain want more and more, get to the next level or whatever it is. And so if you want to be in control of your choices and you want your children to be in control of your choices, then we have to understand, remove the things that are purposefully making us lose that control.

Right. And it comes back to us making those choices. And you know, like you said at the beginning of tuning inwards and thinking, like, do I really need to get this for my child? Probably not. One thing that you did mention is this idea of the vagus nerve. And again, I'll ask you to maybe just explain what that is to those who might not know. And how do we help children kind of self regulate and be more mindful and so forth, Because I know that that's something that parents often struggle with, even for themselves. You know, self regulation is, I think, a lifelong quest. But if we can help our children learn how to do that early on, the better it is.

Yeah, well, I'd have to find this study. But there was a study, I mean, way back when I was in pediatric training that really followed kids and through their young adult years. And one of the factors that really predicted success in adulthood was the ability to self regulate, the ability to stop and think before you do or say something. I mean, how many adults would have such better interactions in life if we could learn how to do that? And as you said, it's a lifelong process because our world just makes us more reactive. And so when we think about the vagus nerve, there's a balance in a part of our nervous system. It's called the autonomic nervous system. So the autonomic nervous system has two main arms, the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic. Now, the sympathetic nervous system is part of our nervous system that most of us are all too familiar with. This is the part that puts us into fight or flight. And so you're late for work, or you just had an argument with your spouse, or as a kid, maybe your friend said something mean to you, or you have the soccer and then you have school and you have all the deadlines. I Mean we're just go, go, go, go, go. So every day we are put into a fight, flight or freeze state. Our sympathetic nervous system is activated. Now that in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. You know, we've come in our society, you know, to really judge, quote, stress as always blanketly negative. Now stress is simply your physiologic response, getting ready for something. And there's a certain amount of stress that actually makes us more productive, makes us more efficient and we need that, you know, just like it's a proverbial saber toothed tiger, you know, coming at you. Well, you don't want to feel like sitting there meditating, you know, when it's coming at you, you need to act. And so that evolutionary response is there for a reason. So we don't want to get rid of all stress. I think that's one of the things that as parents nowadays, you know, trying to make life, we just want life easy. We just want our kids to be happy. We don't want them to have stress that actually is counteracting really their ability to build that resilience later on in life. So we need some. It's just that in our modern world, everything is putting us into fight or flight, I mean, multiple times throughout the day. Now when you have a stressor that puts you into fight or flight, let's say the saber toothed tiger, right? Now the saber toothed tiger's gone. And we have a counterbalance, our parasympathetic nervous system, which is regulated by our vagus nerve which says, oh, you know what, stress, you've done your job. Sympathetic nervous system, now you can come down and now I can take over and get into the rest, digest and heal state, the recover state, right? And so that is the state that we want after stress sympathetic has been activated. We want our vagus nerve to kick in and say, you know what, you made it to work on time or maybe you were a little late, but now you're here, you don't need to be on edge still, right? Or if your child has a presentation in front of the class and they're anxious and they're worked out okay, but you did it now. Now you can regulate and get your vagus nerve in place. But we don't have enough practice with engaging our vagus nerve. So we tend to stay in this sympathetic fight or flight system, which actually does have a significant impact on our microbiome. In fact, this persistent state of psychological stress has been found within one hour. We see lab evidence of microbiome disruption, right? But then when our vagus nerve kicks in and we can regulate, our microbiome can restore. So it's this balance here that we want. So, you know, with the vagus nerve, when we are learning how to regulate our nervous system, I also want this to be something that kids learn how to do every single day and adults learn how to do every single day. And yes, you can engage your vagus nerve by practicing meditation, yoga, breath work, walking in nature. Nature is a profound effect on our vagus nerve, right? But sometimes, because of our conventional medical way of separating out the mind from the body and the gut from the brain, many unfortunately view these vagus nerve exercises as optional. Oh, well, if it's just in my head, then it's not that important. I should just learn to deal, right? And so what I let people know is we need to shift this mindset and understand that when we engage our vagus nerve, I think that, you know, feeling good, calm, regulating, that's great. I want everyone to feel that. But that's just a really awesome side effect. The real benefit is that engaging our vagus nerve reduces chronic inflammation. It reduces our excess cortisol and stress hormones. It regulates our hormones. It balances out our blood sugar. I mean, it helps from recovery from infections and illnesses. And so when we frame it that way, we can see that engaging and working on our vagus nerve, it's not just to feel good. It actually is to be healthy and to thrive on the inside. And so one of the tools that we can all learn is just to learn how to breathe in a way that engages our vagus nerve. Right? I mean, we have to breathe every day. And when people really pay attention to their breath, we hold our breath a lot of the time. Sitting in the car, sitting at work, or sitting in school, and we're not breathing, we're kind of pausing in this stressed state. And so by learning how to breathe now, then we can do that. Your kids can actually do that anytime, anywhere. They don't have to go to the bathroom and do some different maneuverings. They don't have to look like they're doing anything odd, you know, because they don't want to stand out. And so breathing with our belly, diaphragmatic breathing that. That instantly engages your vagus nerve can get you into a more calm state, pull you out of fight or flight. And it's something that when we watch babies and their bellies are going in and out, you know, with every breath, right? They naturally know how to do that.

That's actually one thing I was going to say because when you're saying that we have to learn how to breathe, it's like, didn't we know how to do that? Yes, initially. Like why have we forgotten? Right, yeah.

Well, I think culturally we've just been taught to kind of suck in our bellies and keep everything tight. So we're not, you know, breathing with our diaphragms. We also, when we're stressed, our shoulders tend to hunch up and, and then we start breathing really shallowly with the upper part of our lungs. And so when we're really breathing with our belly, we're imagining a balloon filling up in our belly as we slowly inhale. So and then as we slowly exhale, that balloon is fully deflating, all while we're keeping our shoulders down and still. And it helps when you're learning how to do this, to put your hand on your chest or hands on your shoulders or even be laying down and you can have a very light notebook on your belly. And you just take a slow breath in and expand the balloon in your belly and deflate slowly and deflate the balloon in your belly. And as we do that, just flattening five or ten slow belly breaths and you'll be more calm, you'll be out of the fight or flight. So then you can really assess. Okay, what's my next step? Where am I? Am I taking an exam? Did I just get a really mean text from my friend? How am I going to respond? So you know, in this way, I mean, we do we have to breathe every hour, moment of the day. So learning how to breathe with our belly is one of the best ways to constantly be engaging our vagus nerve and really defend against that onslaught of fight or flight that we face.

Right. And there's two things that came up when you were talking about that. One of them is that our modern day, I think digital world keeps us in a very high, you know, I mean I personally have no notifications. What's not even visual? Like I don't want the visual, I don't want the sound. You know, if I want to look, I'll look. But I know a lot of people, that's how they function. And I can only imagine how it keeps. Keeps them at a higher kind of stress level.

Yeah.

But one thing that's interesting because I often, you know, parents often come to me about how it's difficult to come home from work and then you kind of step into your second full time job, which is being a parent. Yeah. And this Exercise that you just talked about, those deep belly breath. I think that is a beautiful thing to do before you enter your home.

Yes.

Like put the work day away, let it go, and come into this, you know, other adventure that you have for the day, which is being with your children. And it's a whole other. But if you're cleared and serene, that will be a lot better.

So much better. Because once you get home, you may still have some work that you need to do once the kids are asleep. But, you know, I think the thing for working parents that is. Is such a struggle or you know, for parents, I mean, even if you don't have a job, you do have a job as a housekeeper doing all the things, Right. And so there's this guilt that we feel that, you know, when we're at work, we feel this guilt of not being present for our kids and spending enough time. And then when we're with our kids, we're thinking about work. And then when we do that, we become less efficient and fully present for both of those things. And so if we can really, you know, when we're at work, we focus on our work, we let go of what's happening at home, you know, with our children. And then when we're with our children, we're fully engaged with them. It makes for such a more fruitful, positive, rewarding experience for you and your kids. And I'm not gonna say that I'm perfect in this because there have been plenty of times where there's been so much on my plate at work where I've come home and, you know, in those moments, I think it's fully appropriate to tell your children, look, you know, Mommy's had a really rough, busy day. I want to be present right now, but there are some things I really need to get done. And that's okay. That's part of life. Right? But chances are those things can wait. And so, you know, if you can just, in that moment say, I'm going to put that aside. I'm going to put my phone away. Like you said, no notifications, nothing that's going to have you feel torn between having to check the phone because you heard something and be fully present. It's such a gift to not only your kids, but to you as well. I mean, you will just enjoy so much more that time with your kids. Because when we're busy, when we're looking at our emails or texts and thinking, oh, my gosh, I have to respond to this, which, again, most of the time we don't need to right away. But it puts you in a more of that anxious state that then you are more likely to snap at your child or say, just one second, I need to do this. And then nobody feels good afterwards. So I agree. You know, this ability to be fully present and like you said, just in the car, in your garage, take those 10 breaths, put work aside and come in, be the parent that you want to be and then you can get back to work later.

Right. Or take a walk around the block or do something for that transition. So important. Well, this has been amazing. I have learned a lot and this has been great. And I know it's going to be very helpful to a lot of our listeners. As I wrap up, I like to kind of circle back to kind of a more personal question, if I may, on your own parenting. And you mentioned you have a 14 year old and a 12 and a half year old. So if you were to go back 15 years ago when you were expecting your first child, what wise words would you tell yourself, knowing all that you know today?

You know, I think the wisest thing that I wish someone had said is that you will make mistakes sometimes. And the most important thing is to forgive yourself in that moment and be able to fully move on. And I mean, mistakes are a part of learning and they're a part of life. And that's why we're here and our kids are here, so that we can learn from our mistakes. And so I would tell myself to have more grace with myself.

Thank you for that. Yes. So important. Any parting words that you would like to leave our listeners and viewers with today? Dr. Song? Yeah.

You know, I always love to tell parents and practitioners and whomever is listening, grandparents, you know, that no matter where your child is on their health journey, it's never too late to move towards a path of thriving. I mean, that's exactly why I wrote my book, because I don't want anyone to feel like it's too late. The damage has been done. It never is, you know, whether it's your child's immune system or their body or their brain, you know, that needs more support. So it's never too late. And we just want to keep moving forward with a picture of our child in their most thriving self. And as long as we keep moving towards that picture, we can get there.

Perfect. Well, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom today. It's been a real pleasure.

Thank you for having me.

I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Art of Parenting podcast. And if you did Please share it with your loved ones. And make sure to leave a review so it can get heard by many more. And remember, if you've got a question, let me know. I'm here for you. Till next time.