243_Building Healthy, Happy, and Resilient Children with Dr. Elisa Song

For the first time ever in history, our kids are predicted to have a shorter lifespan than us, their parents, all due to lifestyle related diseases. And this was 20 years ago and that should have been like a oh my gosh, we need to wake up now. And we haven't.

Welcome to the show where we help.

You make Smart Nutrition Simple.

If you want proven nutrition strategies to help you build a better body and create the energy to show up for your family without overly restrictive and unrealistic dieting, then you're in the right place. Make sure to subscribe and enjoy this episode. Raising Healthy, Happy Kids shouldn't be so hard. Yet despite living in what should be the golden age of medicine, our children are sicker than ever. Nearly one in two kids has a chronic condition, whether it's eczema, asthma, adhd, anxiety, autoimmunity, or even all of the above. Welcome back to another episode of the Smart Nutrition Made Simple Show.

I am your host Ben Brown, owner.

And head coach here at Bodi Systems, and today's conversation will absolutely resonate with.

You if you have young kids now.

Many parents are at a loss for who to turn to for trusted advice. Certainly advice that takes a root cause, holistic approach to whole child resilience, but also that doesn't dismiss the value of conventional pediatrics. Today on the show, I'm excited to welcome back Dr. Elisa Song. Elisa is a Stanford NYU UCSF trained pediatrician and one of the foremost pioneers and trusted experts in pediatric, integrative and functional medicine care. In her holistic practice, Whole Family Wellness, she's helped thousands of kids get to the root cause of their health concerns and helped their parents understand how to heal their children from the inside out. Elise is also the author of the newly released Healthy Kids, Happy Kids An Integrative Pediatrician's Guide to Whole Child Resilience. In today's conversation, we discuss the alarming trend in children's health and how the gut microbiome holds the key. Dr. Song shares her journey from conventional to integrative medicine, the detrimental effects of antibiotics on kids, gut health, particularly during infancy and adolescence, and the connection between gut microbiome and your immune system, brain development, mental health, mood and behavior. We also talk about strategies to empower children and parents to make informed health choices, emphasizing education on reading food labels and understanding how what we choose to eat impacts your overall health. And finally, Dr. Song offers actionable advice for parents to support their children's health, including dietary changes and lifestyle adjustments. For all parents and healthcare providers listening, this episode is a call to Action to reevaluate and reinforce the foundations of health in our younger generation.

So without further ado, here's my conversation with Dr. Elisa Song. Dr. Elisa Song, welcome back to the Smart Nutrition Made Simple Show. How are you?

I'm great. I mean, I always love chatting with you, so I jumped at the opportunity to come back on.

You are one of the few 3 Pete guests that we've had, so congratulations there. It's an absolute honor on my end to have you on, and I'm excited to. To speak with you.

Oh, thank you.

You know, we were. We were talking before we hit record here. You were one of my first guests on the show, which wasn't even aptly named Smart Nutrition Made simple show yet. It was, I believe, like, June of 2016.

Which we actually talked a lot.

About what we're going to discuss today. And to be fair, I don't even think that that episode is on itunes. It is on YouTube, but nonetheless, because I'm confident that the vast majority of our listeners didn't have the opportunity to catch that. So, Elisa, for. For those that don't know who you are, maybe just a brief background about who you are, kind of how you transition from conventional medicine to more integrative medicine and kind of what your mission is.

Yeah. So I am an integrated pediatrician and pediatric functional medicine doc. I have always practiced this way. So this was when I left medical school and finished my residency and didn't really like anything that I saw in terms of I want this to be my career. I mean, you go through all of that, right? And so then I stumbled upon this.

I'm sorry to interrupt. You trained in pediatrics, though?

I trained in pediatrics. I was at NYU Medical School. I did my pediatric residency at UCS stuff. So super conventional. And I grew up in a conventional medicine household. My mom was an OB gyn and so. But, you know, leaving residency, I'm like, all right, well, I don't want to be a hospitalist working, you know, as a primary care pediatrician or in an urgent care. I don't want to see a patient every 10 minutes. That's not the way to, you know, get kids well. And so I really, I grappled with what I want to do, and I'd always, initially in college, I thought I was going to be a public policy children's health advocate and a lawyer. So I actually started moving back towards that. And then I stumbled upon this flyer. It was a Food as Medicine flyer. It was a conference in 2001, and I was like, what is this concept called Food as medicine? Right? And so I went and I mean, my mind was just blown. That's when I was introduced to functional medicine. I heard A super young Dr. Mark Hyman speaking, and I'm like, oh my gosh, it really does matter what we eat. You know, I mean, just this, this simplistic concept that it's not even just what we eat, it's how. It's, you know, thinking about nutrient density, thinking about what we're putting into our bodies, both good and not so good, right? And, and then I'm like, this is what I want to do. So, so I open up my, my practice in this way. It was not a. Because I just, I didn't want to do conventional, put out the fires, just, you know, put band aids on symptoms. I really wanted to figure out how can we get our kids well and not just well, but really thriving. And, you know, I think about as I was opening up my practice in 2004, an article came out very shortly after in the New England Journal of medicine in 2005. And in that article, the researchers noted that for the first time ever in history, our kids are predicted to have a shorter lifespan than us, their parents, all due to lifestyle related diseases. And this was almost 20 years ago.

20 years ago.

20 years ago. And that should have been like a, oh my gosh, we need to wake up now and we haven't. Right? And so that's my mission. I mean, this is why I do what I do, because we really, we, we're at the point we need a complete overhaul. We need a revolution in children's health care. Because our, I mean, as a parent and a hopeful grandparent, one day, like, this is not going to cut it.

Right? Well, you're clearly a leading advocate in that field. And you know, I think that, well, you have a new book out or it's going to be out. And so this is very timely, but your book is, is named Healthy Kids, Happy Kids, An Integrative Pediatrician's Guide to Whole Child Resilience. And you know, based on what you just said around that 2004 study, I'm actually going to read off some of the statistics that you list out in the book, which, which really is staggering. 1 in 5 kids has eczema. 1 in 10 kids has asthma. 1 in 10 kids has ADHD. Nearly 1 in 10 kids has behavioral problems. 1 in 10 kids has been diagnosed with anxiety, with the number climbing to one in three by the time they're 13 and 18. One in three teenage girls. This one hit home for me with two teenage girls. So one in three teenage girls has seriously thought of suicide. Over one in eight have actually tried. That's mind boggling.

Yeah.

One in 36 kids has autism, at least according to 2020 data. And the rates keep going up. Autoimmunity is rising by 3 to 9% each year with teenagers 12 to 19 years of age outpacing any other group. And in 2005. Yeah, this is what you just said. The New England Journal of Medicine forecast that for the first time in history, our children are predicted to have a shorter lifespan than us, their parents, all due to their diet, their lifestyle and related. Their lifestyle related chronic diseases. So what is going on here?

There are many different factors that I think are converging to make it really hard to be healthy in this world. And I just want to take a step back and just really kind of sing your praises because the work you're doing in teaching parents, moms, dads about the importance of fitness and family, right, Because I mean, we were talking offline. I just, I love your newsletters. And if anyone listening is not on Ben's newsletter, you have to be on his newsletter because they're about the realest emails you can get. It's not fluff, right? It's not like, oh, do this and you'll get perfect outcomes and it's going to be easy. No, you got to work for it. But that's what we need to model for our kids. You work for it, you get the rewards and that's, that's the way to thrive. And so, you know, one of the things that we, that I look at as a functional medicine pediatrician is many people have heard the saying that all disease starts in the gut, credited, you know, by Hippocrates 200 years ago, the father of modern medicine. But when we think about that with children, it really is so important to understand how disruptions to your child and your babies gut microbiome in those early stages in life and also during your tween teen years, the times with rapid changes in their brain development. Well, what's driving that? It's their microbiome. And so when we understand what's impacting their gut microbiomes, we can see, huh, okay, maybe that is what's influencing their gut brain connection, their gut immune system connection. And you know, one of the major factors in why our children's microbiomes are so different today than they used to be, it's the food we're eating or the food we're not eating. Right. I mean, it's sort of this, this combination. And I'll say the two biggest disruptors to our gut microbiomes today, especially for children, are what we're putting into their mouths, right? What they're eating, or like I said, not eating, what the nourishment they're not getting and all the not such nourishing things that they are getting. And chronic psychological stress. I mean, psychological stress immediately disrupts your gut microbiome, which is fascinating. Within one hour of a major stressful event, we can see changes in our gut microbiomes. And so just life is just busy, busy, busy and stressful. And we need to help our kids understand how to manage that. Not just to feel calm and relaxed and not just because we have an emergency of kids and teens mental health, but because it's really important for their microbiomes and in order to produce all of the, you know, happy neurotransmitters that our brain needs because like 90% of them are made by our gut.

Yeah, yeah. And, and we obviously have this food environment, but we also have this psycho psychological stressful environment that we're putting ourselves under so much more. So now with think phones and social media and all of the inherent stress that comes with that. You've said microbiome multiple times. Just for clarity, help us understand what exactly is this microbiome, you know, that you're referring to?

So microbiome, the microbiome. And when people refer to the microbiome research, most of it is on the gut microbiome. The gut microbiome is that environment. It's a combination of all the microbiota. So the microbes, those hundreds of trillions of bacteria, yeast parasites, even viruses that live in our gut in a community and the environment they're living in and all of their genetic makeup that is helping to support us. And in fact, we have, I mean, the estimates will vary, but something like 10 times more bacterial and microorganism cells on and in us than we have human cells. And what's fascinating is our brain cannot live without our gut microbiome. Our gut microbiome can live without us. Right? So when we're, when we're thinking, who are we nurturing? You know, how are we living? Who are we living for? It's not just us. I mean, it's really for our microbiome. And what's fascinating is we have different microbiomes. I mean, all over our bodies, our skin has its own microbiome. I mean, mamas, your breast milk glands, have their own microbiome. Even our eyeballs have their own microbiome. And so we're just at the tip of the iceberg of researching and understanding this. But the research is exploding in the past several years with how important the microbiome is to overall health, longevity, wellness, whether you're a baby or on the other end of the spectrum, whether, you know, you're an elderly person trying to hopefully not get dementia. Right, yeah.

And so what I'm hearing is that there's really this symbiotic relationship between the gut bacteria, the expansiveness of gut bacteria, and our overall health. And then obviously, like you discussed, I mean, the environment that we live in, the thoughts that we think, the foods that we consume, they all influence the health of this, these, these bacteria, the amounts, the types, the good, the bad. And again, there's this very synergistic relationship between the bacteria themselves as well as how we thrive within these environments, and vice versa. And so, with that said, what are some of the things that we know around how the microbiome develops from the time that we're born till, you know, adulthood? What are the things that kids and parents need to be intimately aware of in terms of how that biome is influenced?

So, you know, just a couple of, I guess, findings to help really help parents understand how important the microbiome is for your child's immune system and brain and what the statistics I'm going to share, they can be a little bit kind of shocking at first, especially as a, as a mom or dad, if you're like, oh my gosh, that, that happened to my kid, right? It's just to have knowledge. Right? Because we know knowledge is power and to know where your kids are starting from. And so one, one huge study, almost 800,000 kids, found that antibiotics or antacid medications given in the first six months of life could increase the risk of virtually every single allergic disorder by the time you were 4 years old. So eczema, asthma, allergies, hay fever, anaphylactic food allergies, and the author's note, it's really, it's this early stage that for zero to three years of age, but especially that zero to six month of age where there's this critical window where your microbiome talks to your immune system and says, hey, how are you going to respond to all the things you're getting exposed to? And we have to remember we're one long hollow tube. Our gut is really open to the outside. And our largest interface with foods, infections, environmental toxins, and it's sensing, okay, are you friend, are you foe? How do I respond? And so in those early stages, when the gut microbiome becomes disrupted with antibiotics or antacid medications, it can change how our immune system interacts with the world. Another study found that antibiotics given within the first, you know, in infancy, but especially in the first six months of life, could significantly increase the risk of virtually any mental health concern in kids when they were older kids or teenagers. Now I say that to really pinpoint the importance of the microbiome. But if as a parent, your child had antibiotics when they were little, and I tell everyone my kids did, right, My kids had antibiotics. My daughter when she was three weeks old because she had a urinary tract infection. I mean, I'm not messing with that as a baby, right? Sometimes they're absolutely necessary. My son had strep in his ear when he was five weeks old. And so they both did. But we just have to understand this impact. What's really fascinating is they found that the way that the microbiome develops and communicates with your brain, it's really your microbiome kind of impacting how all of those connections that are being developed, we have these moments in our lifespan where our microbiome is rapidly changing and we see that mirrored in rapid brain changes. So that's in infancy, toddlerhood, it's also in our teenage years, right. And then also at the weigh in when, when we're elderly. And so just because something happened when your kid was an infant, it's not a done deal. We have all this time and then we have our tween teen years where so many influences going on to really have their lives be more challenging than ours were growing up and our grandparents were. But we have this opportunity to educate them on, look, you want to have clearer skin, you want to be the fastest soccer player, you want to be able to sleep at night, you want to be able to not, not like freak out when you have a stress, then it always goes back to their microbiome. So if we, if we educate them, then it helps. I do think it helps them to think about the choices they're making in a different way.

Well, it's the epitome of taking this holistic approach. It's like always asking the why around what it is that we're experiencing. You know, in your book you talk about some point, or maybe I've heard you speak about it before, around, you know, kids that get the tonsils removed. And, and it's like, well, why are the Tonsils always enlarged. Like, what's going on with the immune system that it's constantly inflamed. And, you know, you were mentioning antibiotics and. And I don't know, I. I've mentioned it on the show multiple times before, but I had a myriad of gut health issues growing up. And in, candidly, speaking with my mother just a few months ago, she was like, oh, yeah, you know, when you were born, we had you circumcised right away and you got an infection. And within, like, you know, three or four days of being born, I was on antibiotics. Oh, cycle repeated.

Yeah.

Year after year after year, in some way, shape or form, ear infections, strep throat, like, all that stuff to the degree that by the time I was in high school, I'd been so many rounds of antibiotics. And listen, it's. It's no fault to my parents. They were doing the best that they could with the tools that they had and the understanding, and it's all good. But this is why I do what I do. It gave me the opportunity to really start to explore, like, well, how do I start to heal myself? Because the solution isn't more antacid medication and more antibiotics. Like, I've got to figure out a different path.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I have. I have parents who. I mean, one of the reasons they might come in is because their kids are getting sick all the time, right. Ear infection after ear infection, and the antibiotics, I mean, they stop working. Then these stronger ones or, you know, whatever it is. And I mean, when we. When we work on gut health and we kind of optimize all the things that go into helping your microbiome be, you know, as healthy as possible. The ear infections and the cold after cold and the flus, it's not like they go away completely because that's not life. I mean, kids get sick, but they don't get sick as often. And when they get a cold, it doesn't immediately turn into that lung infection or that ear infection. So it can make a profound difference. And that's. But I love what you said. It's really. It's like through no fault of your parents and not even your doctors. Right. We're doing the best we can. And honestly, I mean, back then, like when we were growing up, and even now, a lot of pediatricians and family practice docs and emergency room docs, they're just not yet up to speed on how profoundly a round of antibiotics could impact this child in future years. And so that knowledge, it is expanding and we, and you know, it's like, you know, why the work you're doing and you know, talking about this publicly is so important because a lot of times it's going to be parents who bring information. I mean, I love it when parents come in and they're like, did you see this new research paper? Oh, I heard on my Facebook group that this one I'm like, oh, I haven't let me look into it. And sometimes it's this amazing new thing, right? So our parents teach us well, we're.

We'Re learning so much through research and, and like you said, is I, I really think we're in just kind of just breaching the surface in terms of how complex the human body is and, and certainly the human microbiome and the, and, and just the intimate relationship between the biome and our health and our lifespan and, and the disease processes and everything like that. And so I, I think it's so relevant that we just have to be informed and we have to be proactive about our own health and certainly about our hit, our kids health. And as, as brilliant as clinicians are, it still doesn't, you know, people still make mistakes. We still don't know everything. We're still learning a lot. And so I think it's only relevant that we, we take our time to understand the process and, and, and intuitively do what we think is going to be best for our kids. And it's like, listen, the things that.

We'Re doing for our 8 year old.

Are different than what we did with our 14 year old when she was young. And we're learning as we go and it's like I regret some of the things that we did but at the end of the day it's like you do the best that you can but you know, with that said, it's like you have to do your diligence. People research more like their next car purchase than the antibiotics that they're giving their kids round after round. And so I think it's important that we take responsibility over that. So I'll get off.

That is, you know, I just have to say, Ben, you must have been reading my mind this morning because as I was driving in this morning I literally in my head I was thinking this same thought that, you know, the grocery purchases that people make or you know, to feed their families or the medications that they choose or teenagers come to me and say they want, you know, to try this ADD medicine because it helped their kid, right? I mean it helped their Friend. I'm like, you know, we do way more due diligence in like buying a car. You would spend hours, hours, hours. Right. Day and night. And so we need to have that same responsibility and you know, due diligence in our decision making for, for the food that we choose to eat. Right. And the way we choose to live. So it's, it's so true.

I mean, it's all, it's all values and priorities. And you know, I, I told you I was out on a hike with some guys this morning and we were talking about how last weekend it was my kids spring break and so we, we took our kids to Disney, fortunately, unfortunately. And I was saying, you know, I think it's a good example of how we spend our money. I'm like, first of all, you go to Disney, like, it's very clear we're not in a recession. I mean, just that the sheer cost of, of, of the place and the number of people there. And, and so, you know, we, we spend money on things that we prioritize and clearly people are willing to spend plenty of money on things like Disney and the food at Disney and the, you know, the gear. And that's fine, like that's all good and well, but yet we, we scoff at the price of, of quote, unquote healthy food. And so just to, you know, reiterate, reiterate your, your point of, it's, it's relevant for us to kind of look at how, where our value system is here.

Yeah.

Listen, if, if the health of your, your health, if your kids health of the example that you're setting is important, then you need to expend resources on and invest in that process.

That's right. And you know, and, and I love that you are talking about really making sure that you are advocating for your kids health and doing the research and also having that discussion, you know, with, with your doctor and kids too. Right. I mean, I talk to kids all the time about, you know, come with a list of questions for me. And here's the thing, you know, with antibiotics or medications, when I tell parents, look, if you ask questions about a medication that's being recommended, like let's say you're in the emergency room and they're recommending, you know, this particular antibiotic, asking questions about it is not questioning the doctor, you're questioning the medicine. Right. And you know, in generations past it was like, oh, the doctor. We can't ask questions. We have to do what they say. Right. But it's not like that anymore. And I think if you go at it from, you know, this is a collaborative effort, we're all in this to, you know, really help our kids get well. And you know, this doctor is just, is doing their best, but let's have this conversation. And you know, there was one study that looked at, you know, prescribing behaviors of physicians and they were, I think like twice as likely to prescribe an antibiotic, even if they thought it wasn't necessary. Like, let's say it was antibiotics for a viral cold, if they believed that the patient wanted a prescription. Yeah, right. And so, and that's just, it's, it's human nature. It's whatever it is. But simply by stopping and asking, hey, doc, I'm just wondering, is this antibiotic really necessary that makes that physician pause and know, okay, you're not the patient, the parent who's coming in just wanting to get a prescription and leave. Because there are some parents like that. Right. Who just still really believe anorexia are the only way. But that opens up the dialogue and it just, it can make such a huge difference.

Yeah, most definitely. And that's where, again, just doing your diligence, asking questions, it's so challenging. You know this as a parent. Our kids are the same age. I know this as a parent. Those of you listening, like, you don't know what to do and we don't have clear cut answers and anyone tells you one way that this is the way, like that's someone that I don't know if I would put a whole heck of a lot of faith in, given what we know about. Yeah, medicine, obviously there's circumstances where I listen, antibiotics are fantastic, but is it, is it the panacea? Certainly not. And so you simply have to do the best that you can and, and understand like we, we keep coming back to so that you can make informed decisions, say, I know my child, I know what we've been doing. Here are the things we could potentially do better. And given the circumstances, this seems like the best decision. Right. Given your schedule, your time, your finances, like all of those things matter. And so you can't give yourself a hard time one way or the other. But you do have to make, you know, executive decisions. Getting back into the science a little bit. We talk, we're talking about kind of the complexity of the gut here. You talked about the psychology or the impact on the brain from the gut. So let's talk a little bit about this gut brain axis and specifically kind of the, that intimate relationship.

Yeah. So I mean, this is One of my favorite topics ever because it is an area where I feel like if parents, grandparents, practitioners really understood we could help kind of lift our kids, kids could help lift themselves out of the mental health emergency that they have. And all of this as parents, when we are doing the research and the due diligence, as you said, we're modeling to kids, our kids to do the same. It's so important. And when we think about the gut brain connection, if I have a child who's in front of me and they're coming in because they have, even if it's an elementary school kid or young kid who's having behavioral concerns, the teacher's asking the parents, hey, is something going on? And maybe they're getting aggressive or they're rolling on the floor or whatever it is, or even an older kid, elementary school kid who's starting to show signs of maybe attention focus issues, or maybe it's a tween or teen who's really starting to get more and more anxious. I talk to each of them, obviously in a different language, but I tell all of them about the trillions of microscopic friends, these allies in their guts that are trying their best to help their brain. And when they understand that 90% of the serotonin your feel good, happy hormone neurotransmitter chemical is made by our gut microbiome. And that neurotransmitter helps us stay calm, less wiggly, fall asleep, manage our worries better. And the only way to help our buddies make all of these neurotransmitters is by giving, first of all, nourishing them with the food to help them grow and then also making sure we're getting the right ingredients so that they can make all of the serotonin our brain needs. Our brain, our microbiome makes maybe 90% of, of our serotonin dopamine, which is our reward. Attention focused neurotransmitter, 50% at least is made by our gut microbiome. And the list goes on. There's Gaba, which is calming. There's melatonin, our sleep hormone. Our gut microbiome makes 400 times more melatonin than our brain. And so then the lights go on like, oh my gosh, okay, if I want to feel better, right? If I, if I want to, you know, mentally or behaviorally or cognitively, whatever it is, just feel my best. It's not just about doing things that make me feel better in the moment, right, like that boba tea. But it's about, okay, in the long run, what is going to nourish my, my microscopic friends, right, My microbiome so that I can, I can really be happy and healthy for the long run, not just in that moment.

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You know, it's, it's really interesting how the kids start to figure this out on their own, this gut brain relationship and how they talk about how the gut is the second brain. But this is certainly something that we've experimented quite a lot with with our kids over the years and tried to help them develop this autonomy and intuition around in terms of how they feel themselves, how they feel by virtue of it. And it's something that we've also really experienced with our son who we realized over the last couple years had a really significant kind of gluten intolerance, to say nothing of all the other that he was consuming. Yeah, and, and listen, it's part of us getting a little lax at times with the types of foods that we have in the house. And that's where we're all human and, and we're figuring it out as we go. But what we realized by virtue of some first, first of all, just understanding, like what I understand and his behavior and, and what was really interesting was for the girls, it was something that we would observe through just their gut health, the way that they would feel, bloating, stool, you know, bowel movements, things like that. But for Caleb, it was very much his behavior, very much his cognitive function, and the way he was performing in school to the degree that upon some more advanced diagnostic testing with gut health and gluten sensitivity and stuff like that, we found that it was literally like lighting a fire in his brain.

Yeah, right.

And just sheds light on the relationship between the gut health, brain health, our focus, anxiety, productivity. And this holds true for adults as well. Like this. All of this is the exact same. Right. In terms of if you're not performing the way that you want, if you don't feel, if you're not losing weight, if you have skin issues, digestive issues, like this is all relevant, by the way.

All relevant. Yep.

Yeah. And so for him was really helping him understand this of. And then of course for us, in terms of setting the stage for his success was like, okay, really being more diligent about food choices, helping him understand why it's important, how now, you know, months and months and months later, seeing how he's performing better, he's functioning better, he's more stable, he's more pleasurable to be around, he can control his emotions better. And so I think it's. I just know from being a parent and, and then myriad of parents that we're surrounded with and kids, behavioral issues now that we can't not look at the lifestyle and what we're feeding our children and not make that connection.

Yeah. I mean, it's so important. And you know, Caleb's. He's eight now, but he is at the age where he can start really connecting the dots between what he's eating and how he's feeling. And that's so important because when kids can connect those dots, it's easier for them to make decisions later on. Like when they're going out and about with their friends on their own in high school, you know, buying their own food and you know, to be real, I mean, there are going to be times where, you know, I'm not going to. I'm not going to throw Caleb under the bus. I'm going to throw my kids under the bus. Right. Because we've been talking about this, you know, since they Were little about their microbiome and the connections to. I mean, now for my daughter, it's, you know, some acne coming, right? It's like, well, let's think about, you know, what we're eating and how that affects our skin. But also, you know, for. For Bode, it's, you know, he wants a more accurate goal shot, right? In soccer. And so. So they know the choices that can help them reach their goals. But they're kids, right? And so there are gonna be times where they're looking at what their friends are eating, and they're like, I just really want, you know, I want that boba or I want this bag of chips. So we've had discussions on how to read labels and, you know, just make sure, you know, what. What would be equally tasty, but maybe not as. As harmful to their gut microbiomes. But then if they do decide to have, you know, Takis are, I think, one of the worst things you could ever have, right? But then there's so good. Oh, no, don't say but. But see, this is the thing. Like these. I. I tell them there's literally, like, mad scientists in the background at the food industry, like, just trying to, like, make these potions so that you have this mouth feel that. Your brain's like, oh, my gosh, this is so good. I want more, right? I need another bite. Yeah, and, like, make it sweeter, tastier. They know exactly how to light up those addiction centers in your brain. That's the thing, right? So I tell them, look, if you want to be in control of your body and your brain, don't let the food. You know, the mad scientists take over, right? But invariably, something will sneak in, and they feel terrible. I mean, my son, he had so much sugar one day, I mean, we had to pull over because he was like, I don't know if I have to throw up or poop or whatever it is, right? But I'm like, well, let's think about this, right? I mean, you. You had this choice. You were with your friends, and, yeah, you just eat way more sugar. And I'm not. I mean, it was way a lot, right? It was like a hot cocoa and an agua fresca and a root beer float. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that would make my stomach hurt, right? And so he made that connection, and he's like, yeah, I know. Okay. So the next day, he decided, okay, I'm not going to have anything sugary today, right? Just to kind of get back into balance. But. But that's what we want. Because they're not always going to be in our homes. And it makes a difference. I mean, the foundations we set. Now we know kids who, you know, help. Help cook in the kitchen and, you know, who are eating vegetables, offered vegetables, you know, at home when they're young, when they're younger, when they go off to college, they're actually much more likely to choose vegetables, you know, at their dinner plate.

So, of course, you know, leading by example, your kids are watching all of the time. So you can't sit there and eat a bag of Takis and tell them they can't have Takis and it's not good for them. Like, that's just not going to work.

No.

And they're pretty damn smart. So leading by example, you know, you provide the food in the house, they can't eat that crap if it's not available. And it's not to say they should never eat it. You. You obviously want them to have some autonomy, but I think like you said, as the decisions that they make around, well, having family dinner together, having discussions about food and how it impacts them and helping them take time to actually identify with how they feel when they eat certain things.

Yeah.

And it takes a lot of trial and error like Bode was experiencing. And my son came home from a playdate last night. He's like, oh, Dad, I had Mac and cheese and bread and we went and got candy. I was like. And then he proceeded to be in the toilet for like an hour last time, like, how you feeling, bud? Yeah. Shouldn't have had the Mac and cheese, dad. I'm like, okay, well, you'll make a better decision next time.

Yeah.

Live and learn.

They're all opportunities. Right.

But you know what I think comes back to, like, this just this resilience that. That's what's so fascinating about the human body, about the gut, the ability for these bacteria and the cells to repop for us to really build kind of the foundation that we want to have. I think there's so many things that we can do from a healthy nutrition, from a lifestyle standpoint, from a supplement standpoint. And so let's. Let's kind of transition into some of the things that people should be cognitive of, like, all right, I'm a parent. I know I can do a better job, and I want to do a better job with supporting my kids health. I'm sure we can eat healthier foods, but, like, what are some of the things that we can do? You talk in the book about a Gut reset, like what does that entail?

Well, so the gut reset is really how to think about if your kids already have a chronic health concern. Like let's say they have some eczema or they have asthma or attention focused concerns, anxiety, if they already have something going on with, with themselves, wherever it's going on, even if it has nothing quote to do with their gut. I mean they're not having obvious gut symptoms. We always start with the gut and that's why the gut reset is so important. And the first part of the gut reset is the re return, right? We have to return to the foundations. That is so important. If we don't have the foundations, if we're trying to establish a healthier microbiome, I tell kids this is not like Jack's magic beans. You cannot just throw down, you know, some, some probiotic supplements into your gut and think, oh, all of a sudden I'm going to have this beautiful microbiome. It doesn't work that way. I mean, if anyone has, has gardened, you know, or tried to grow anything, and I'm not, I mean I will fully admit I wish I had more of a green thumb, but there is. You need to nourish the soil. It has to have the proper nutrients for that plant to grow. It needs the right amount of water, the right amount of sunlight, you know, the right amount of love. I mean, all of that, right? And so same thing with your microbiome. If we don't return to those foundations and the foundations, I call the five things for microbiome magic. But if we don't do that, it's going to be an uphill battle. And so, you know, that is, and I tell parents too, because a lot of times parents come in and they want to, they want to heal their kid's gut, right? And you know, they want the supplement plan, they want the things that they need to do. And the supplements are just, but they're like a small part of it. And when you get the foundations in, it's so much easier to have lasting, healing. So what are the foundations? I mean, the five things are things that I, when I taught this course in my kids 3rd, 4th grade class was so fun and we went through these five things that they do every single day. But if we think about how do we create microbiome magic with them, it turns it into a different fun challenge. And so we have to eat every day, we have to breathe every day, we have to move, sleep and drink every day. So if we think about, okay, if I'm doing this. It's not just for me. It's also for my microbiome. How do I do that? And the two most, I think the most significant drivers are going to be how we breathe or the mindfulness, the gut brain connection and how we nourish our gut microbiome or not. And frankly, for our kids as they get older, it's sometimes it's helping them decide what not to put into their bodies that's more impactful than trying to figure out what to get in. Especially if you have a super picky eater who's eating maybe three, four foods and you're like, there's no way I'm going to get him to eat a bowl full of black beans and a rainbow salad. That's just not happening yet. We always use the word yet because it can happen, but it may take a while. So then helping them, I think as our kids get older, if we can teach them how to read food labels and suss out the ingredients that are like, okay, this is really not good for my microbiome or for my brain. We will have healthier teens, we'll have healthier adults, we're going to have healthier elderly, and our grandchildren are going to be healthier. So if it's just that one thing, and I would say the things to look at, the two things to look at on the food labels, number one is just the, the amount of added sugar. Right now, all nutrition facts panels have to include the amount of added sugar. With the caveat in the book, I list all the different things that the food manufacturers don't have to disclose as sugar on added sugars, like fruit. Fruit purees are added to sweeten things, but fruit purees, sure, that sounds healthy because it's fruit, but it's pulverized. So every single bit of fiber is taken out and it's basically a sugar hit. So, you know, and then there are like, I think at this point now, 61 code words for sugar. So if you read a label and you see, you know, malt syrup and, you know, rice syrup and, you know, a couple other things, you're like, oh, that's not sugar. Well, it is, right? Dextrose, all of that and maltodextrin. And so why are the grams of added sugar important? Because kids get now. I mean, it used to be a hundred years ago that kids were eating maybe like two teaspoons of added sugar a day. So sugar was a part of our diet. I mean, you need a little sugar. I mean, I'm not going to say, don't have any sugar. But kids nowadays have over 19 teaspoons and climbing of sugar a day on average. And now with all of the sugar sweetened beverages, you know, the, the bobas, the Starbucks drinks, I mean, you name it, the sugar intake is climbing. And kids should have no more than 25 grams of added sugar in a day, which is the equivalent of about six teaspoons, right? That one Boba tea. Actually I remember looking at Starbucks, one of their seasonal Frappuccino, whatever drinks, it had 56 grams of added sugar, right? And just think about it, adults and kids, maybe even more. But adults and prior teens get about half of their sugar intake from these sugar sweetened beverages, right? You go, you know your daily habit, you go get your Frappuccino in the morning or oh, I'll get my pumpkin spice latte if it's in the fall. Well, that's adding, that's like more sugar than you should have in one day. And if you're doing it every single day, it's no wonder we're seeing all these inflammatory diseases related to excess sugar, like metabolic syndrome, fatty liver disease in children, type 2 diabetes in slim fit, you know, athletic looking teens. I'll check their blood sugars. I'm like, oh my gosh, you are showing signs of prediabetes, you are active and yet what, you're eating that boba every day. It's not helping you to achieve your goals of being the athlete that you want. And so, so that's the added sugar. Being aware, right? Once kids start looking, of course they're going to choose the boba every once in a while, but at least they know, you know, what that was, you know, probably my intake, my total intake for the next couple of days at least. So I'm going to really cut down on the sugar for the next few days. And then going straight down to the ingredients panel. These food. There are multiple food additives that are FDA approved that we know in the literature can completely disrupt your gut microbiome. So if kids can really assess and know like the things that I, and I have it in the book because they're hard to memorize. Now the kids know, they look for mono and diglycerides. We don't want that. We don't want carboxymethylcellulose, that needs to stay out. We don't want carrageenan. So these particular ingredients are things called emulsifiers that keep your food together in the package so it doesn't become a goopy mess. So you'll find it in things like ice cream, but also some protein bars.

Yeah, there's a lot of dairy products with carrageenan.

Yeah, yeah. And they directly disrupt the gut microbiome. So if I. The kids wanted ice cream one night for dessert, I'm like, okay, well, you guys, I'm going grocery shopping. You guys go to the freezer section and choose one that you think that we'd all be happy with. And they had to look. They had to look hard for ones that didn't have mono and diglycerides or artificial colors or artificial flavors. And they finally found one. And I was like, oh, this looked pretty good. What did it have? Cream and sugar and I think, like mint leaves. Right. I mean, like, very few ingredients and real ingredients. I'm like, all right, it's more sugar than. Than we should have. But if we're gonna have the treat, let's make this one be the best treat.

Yeah, no, totally. We do the same thing with like, the ice cream of like, Haagen Dazs is great simply because it's like three or four or five ingredients.

That's right.

And what kind? So, okay, it's not organic, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But at least it's a better choice given the context that. With which we're discussing. I think that what you mentioned about the sugar intake is so important for people to understand. And we'll go to the store and whether we're on a road trip and we're stopping at a gas station, the kids want to get a candy or something, or we're going to the movies. I'm like, go ahead and pick out a candy, but understand that you get one serving of that candy.

Yep.

Right. And even that one serving in many instances is significantly higher than the 25 grams of recommended daily intake of. Of sugar. It's mind boggling, like you said. It's absolutely mind boggling. I mean, you get one 16 ounce soda. One of the kids got this was a couple years ago, but got like a root beer. It was like 56 grams of sugar. I'm like, you do understand that this is more than twice the recommended intake. And so I think empowering the kids to be able to understand that. So now all the time they'll like, look at labels and be like, dad, this is this. And yeah, you know, sometimes reluctantly. And don't get me started on the boba Zoe tried to make. Tried to make her own boba at home the other day, which is. That was a shit show.

So. But here's so. And one thing you said that. I mean, everything you say is awesome. But one. One of the things you said that is so important is the serving. Okay, the serving size. Because a lot of. I mean, now if you. If you buy, I don't know, even like a, you know, a bottle of lemonade or bottle of soda, whatever it is, chances are it's going to be two servings, right? Or two and a half servings. I mean, why put the half there, right? But it's not just one serving. So then if they know, okay, this one serving, like, we were at Six Flags one time, and, you know, everyone's getting there. Like, you know, we had. I had a whole bunch of boys with me, and they're. And, you know, they have their own money, they're running to the serve. And Bodie's like, can I have this? It's lemonade, right? He's like, it's better than the soda. And I looked. I was like, oh, my gosh, Bodie, honestly, I might rather you have the soda, right? Because, I mean, it was two servings and, like, a bigger bottle, and each serving had. I'm not kidd. It was like 70 grams of sugar. And I said, look, think about how fast you could buy down that in three gulps and not think anything of it. And that would be over 100 grams, 140 grams of added sugar. I'm like, let's pick something different. And literally, the Coke had less. I can't believe we're making this choice. But this is real life. You know, this is. As parents, we help our kids make these decisions in the moment. And I mean, that. That's. That's so important to think about this. The servings, too.

So we obviously have covered a lot and. And the gut health being the biggest contributor here to a lot of the issues that we're seeing with kids today, and adults, frankly, today as well. And I think it's important to understand is, like, the decisions that we make in our childhood are. Are significantly carrying over. I mean, there's a reason a third of our US Population is overweight or obese, especially when we're talking about the amount of sugar that we're consuming. And I also think it's important to understand is, like, some of the. Just physiologically, like, the fat cells that we lay down before puberty when we're young, when our kids are young, are going to stay with us for the rest of our life. Now, we can shrink the fat cells, but we can't get rid of them. And so someone's propensity to be overweight and, or obese can absolutely start at childhood, to say nothing of, you know, the, the discussion around antibiotics and, and gut health and things like that, but simply just from our nutritional behaviors, and obviously the two are one in the same. But I just think that's so important for people to, to take into context, understand, and, and, and to know that there's absolutely light at the end of the tunnel. But it takes doing your diligence and starting to make change with respect to the way you're looking at nutrition, the way that you're preparing and planning and setting yourself up for success. So beyond obviously starting to eat healthier, you mentioned your kind of 5 foundation. So eating, breathing, moving, drinking, sleeping, those are super important. What else can people look forward to, kind of to gleaning from your book that comes out in May?

So my book, what I'm hoping for with those foundations of the five things and understanding how they impact your gut microbiome, is that if you read sections of it with your child or even I had one grandparent, because I have a lot of parents in my practice who are like, you know what? We're good at home, but when we go on vacation to the grandparents, it's like, you know, the argument over, like, what's in the fridge or the freezer.

Don't get me started.

Yes. And so I had a grandparent read the book and she went home and talked to her husband was like, we need to totally rethink, like, what treats are. And I mean, they clean up the pantry and they started making different decisions, which is awesome. So then, like, mom and dad, the parents and the kids didn't have to nag anymore. Right. So, I mean, it's, it's useful tips and it puts into the context of the microbiome, which then makes it more compelling for kids, for grandparents, even for educators in terms of what they're bringing to the schools as treats for kids. And so that's part of it. One part is, as we mentioned, the gut reset. If you do have a kid with a health concern, how do we help support that? How do we get their gut micron back into better shape, get it back into a resilient state? So some steps for that. And then the final part is what I love. You know, as an integrated pediatrician, when kids are sick with anything acute, I will use and integrate not just the conventional piece, but homeopathy, herbs, dietary supplements, essential oils, acupressure points. So I have a list of the top 25 acute conditions in kids like fevers, earaches, colds, coughs and use integrative tools. Exactly what I tell my patients. Okay, here's some suggestions for herbs or homeopathy, acupressure points and here's when you should see the doctor and here's when you might need antibiotics or medications so that parents aren't just left hanging with. Okay, what now if my kids not getting better.

I love that. And you know we have a whole host of, we're here in, in Phoenix Scottsdale and you know there's, there's a ton of naturopathic doctors here in town and we're very blessed to have an incredible network. And so just over the years I've established some really great relationships but by doing that I'm constantly firing questions with them around. Okay, here's what the respective child is presenting with and here's what we have on hand in terms of supplements and herbs and, and homeopathy. And so it's been such a great learning experience. I can't wait to dive into what I know is going to be an incredible resource around the book, around kind of the supplements, how to, to approach these different conditions and, and again when to take the conventional medicine route because we're, it's, it's obviously very, very relevant and I'm not in any way poo pooing that. So Dr. Elisa, how can people find out more about you and perhaps pre order the book? What's that process look like?

Yeah, so my book is available for pre order pretty much anywhere, anywhere you like to buy books. So I mean some most common people use Amazon but we like to support our indie bookstores. Right. But Barnes and Noble, indie books, books a million and we have on our website so www.healthykidshappykids.com you can also find links to how to order. And I am most active on Instagram so I love posting on Instagram and just sharing. You know I just posted on this was, it was actually I was like how's this going to be taken? But it was a reel on. You know why I as a holistic pediatrician let my kids have lucky charms on St. Patty's Day? Because it was just a great segue for Bode and Kenzie to really understand like what those are and then make their decisions. Which they did. Right. But yeah. So Instagram is Healthy kids underscore happy kids.

Well, it's been an absolute pleasure, certainly no judgment on my end for letting your kids have lucky charms. How dare you. I can resonate with that begrudgingly in terms of how much my kids like that crap, but I get it. So, Dr. Elisa, absolute pleasure. Such an honor having you back on. I'm. I'm just so grateful to have this relationship, to be in the loop as to and be able to share, you know, what you're doing, what an impact it's making, and hopefully be able to contribute just a little bit on my end. So thank you again for being on. I'm just eternally grateful.

Oh, thank you so much. I mean, you were right there when I was starting off in this big online space trying to educate more people. So I'm so grateful for our friendship.

Indeed. All right, well, I'll look forward to our next interview. Hopefully it won't be six years in the making, but I can't wait to see what an impact this book's gonna make. So keep up the good work. Very grateful for you.

Thank you.

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