#49 Functional Medicine for Kids: A Pediatrician’s Holistic Approach to Root Causes with Dr. Rebecca Vickers

But like even just like a newborn visit, right? So I ask about the delivery, if it was a C section, I put them on probiotics because a C section is a sterile birth so they don't get the good bacteria from the vaginal tract. So you want to set their microbiome up to be successful. So I very, I don't think other people, not a lot of people do that, but I've taught these guys to do that in terms of what the mom's eating, in terms of what the, you know, if it's a breastfeeding mom and encouraging that and encouraging at the breast versus just pumps because that's a different microbiome. At every well visit, I talk about diet and you know, trying not to do lots of processed foods, trying not to do lots of diet because I feel like that's a huge issue. Adding some basic supplements for health, whether it's this one's a little hyper or this one's a little anxious. I try to use food and nutrition and supplements and also just lifestyle. Talking about, are they on their screens all the time? Like, when do you read a book? When do you get outside and breathe fresh air? And not just, oh yeah, you have your shots, go to kindergarten.

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So grab your cup of coffee, take a deep breath, buckle up and join us for this journey called Parenthood will laugh, learn and commiserate about the joys and messiness of raising kids. Welcome back to Parenting Shrink Wrap. Melissa and Sam here with a Special guest today, Dr. Rebecca Vickers, who's a pediatrician local to the Annapolis area. Dr. Vickers is a graduate of New York Medical College and completed her training at Johns Hopkins Hospital and has been practicing pediatrics since 1995. She's the owner of a local pediatric practice called Arundel Pediatrics. I have the pleasure of knowing and sharing patients with Dr. Vickers and Cross referring through the years. And one of the awesome things I think about having Dr. Vickers in our area is that she brings a great holistic approach to pediatric health care to the kids and families that she sees at her practice. So welcome, Dr. Vickers. Thank you for joining us.

Thank you for inviting me. I'm thrilled to be on.

Can you begin by telling our listeners a little more about your professional trajectory? But also you have a real intentional focus on holistic health when it comes to pediatrics, which is perhaps not training that. I mean, I'm not an md, but I'm not sure that that's training that traditionally trained pediatricians get necessarily in their med school background. So tell us a little bit about how that came to be a priority in your practice.

Sure. So I trained at Hopkins, extremely conventional, wonderful training. You know, learned a lot, which was great. And then we had, you know, my husband and I had to have two children, and our oldest had some really severe health issues. And we did all the conventional route and we did everything we were taught and really nothing worked. She was sick for a year and a half and had basically a lot of issues that we really had to turn to functional medicine to solve. And so when I started looking at integrative and functional medicine, which is really what about what are root causes, right? What is really causing the symptom? Don't just treat the abdominal pain and vomiting. What's causing that? Or don't just treat, you know, any specific symptom. What's really going on and what's. What are the different systems that are in balance or out of balance that you need to look at? Conventional medicine doesn't do a great job of that. Conventional medicine does the symptom and does a medicine or therapy, and that's it. Integrative and functional medicine looks at all the different systems and puts everything together. And that was how we healed our daughter. My husband also had some health issues. So between the two of them, again, conventional really didn't work for either of them. So we got into this world of functional medicine, and it's really changed how I practice everything, whether it's preventive medicine and just, you know, during my, well, visits, there's different things I incorporate that I think I wasn't trained to do, certainly, or I'm seeing sick visits for a quick sick visit, or I'm seeing mental health consults. Like, I use this approach with every patient. And I found most people are really happy about it, that you get a much better result. And it just kind of, that's. That's just my approach now. It says that's just my, my gut instinct because it really does work so much better and it brings so much more to both for my abilities to diagnose and treat and also for the patients to really be able to feel better.

I can't imagine how frustrating that must have been, being a physician. All this training under the sun and being trained at one of the best hospitals in the world and then not being able to use those methods to help your own kid.

Well, and then I did. So then I learned, I did my own training. So I learned from both my daughter and my husband. And then I did IFM training through the Institute of Functional Medicine. I do the MAPS conferences once or twice a year and I continue to learn because it's, you know, learning this stuff as, you know, a 40 year old. I mean, I'm older now, but, you know, this is constantly like new stuff. I'm still learning and practicing and bringing to, you know, to the patients that we treat. And I've taught the other providers here to do that too, which I think is really rare. Like most of the practices in our area, wonderful providers, very conventional. So some of the people are, you know, most people don't approach things the way I try to teach their providers here to do that.

What are, what's, what's maps? What does that mean?

I know I should, I should.

Even if you don't know what that stands for, what is it? Is it a functional medicine?

Medical needs of pediatric. Basically it's like integrative pediatrics for. It's like IFM for peds.

Got it.

The big focus is autism, pans and Pandas mental health. I'll get back to you on that because I should know that.

But I didn't mean to ask you a stumping question.

And I always forget what I just call it maps, but it's like, it's just some of the coolest functional pediatricians that come every year. And I learned so much. My head spins for like three months and I come home with all these ideas and my staff's like, oh my Lord. New supplements and handouts. But I really love to just learn more because the more I'm learning in that aspect, the more I feel like we can help these kids. And whether it's the autism incidents rising, the pans and pandas diagnosis that are rising, or just the mental health issues of these kids, which are just so much worse nowadays than when I trained, it gives me new tools to work with and to help them and to offer them and I find it really helpful.

How much training did you get in, like, general pediatrics for, like, mental health, Autism, pans, pandas.

Autism was your very basic. I mean, not much. But back then, again, you know, I've been out for a while. I'm 56. So back then, autism was very different. It's 1 in 33 now. I would even say it's more, to be honest. I really. It's. So, yeah, mental health, you know, a little. I had the benefit. Both my parents were therapists, My dad was a psychiatrist, my mom was a social worker. So I feel like I've grown up, you know, with a lot more mental health exposure than most people. My dad used to sit me down and talk and talk to me about how to use medicines and gave me a lecture and I gave it to my providers. And so I think I've had more training, but I also have a huge interest in it, so because of my parents. So I thought. I think I sought that out a little bit more. Like, I used to go to conferences with my dad and, you know, But I mean, yeah, I've had to do a lot more training. I mean, this is not something they offer in your basic residency, which, you know. But again, back then, you know, three out of four teenagers wasn't on a mental health medicine. Nowadays they are.

So you mentioned an increase in mental health, a change in the prevalence and perhaps diagnosis of. Which doesn't necessarily mean prevalence of autism spectrum disorder. What are some other trends you're seeing from the pediatric lens in today's, you know, younger population? What are you. What are you seeing in your practice?

Just everything. Chronic disease. So kids. Kids are sick more often. Right. So asthma's worse, allergies are worse, food allergies are worse, mental health issues are worse. ADHD. I mean, I. I've never had so many kids on attention and they all need the meds, but that was just not the case 20 years ago. So autism for sure. Neuroinflammation and pans and pandas for sure. Just. Kids are sicker. Kids are. Kids are a lot sicker and they're a lot harder to treat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, adults as well, but I don't see the adults, although I talk to the parents and I hear their issues too. But I think in general, you know, there's a. There's a lot more chronic illness in general than there used to be.

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So how do you end up approaching this? You know, for your typical well visit, if someone is coming in healthy, they may or may not have a chronic condition that you've been treating or that you're aware of. What are some things that you tend to focus on that you would say, maybe the traditional pediatrician or traditionally trained pediatrician isn't always discussing?

Well, and again, I don't want to knock that because I don't know what, I don't really know what they're doing. But like even just like a newborn visit, right? So I ask about the delivery. If it was a C section, I put them on probiotics because a C section is a sterile birth. So they don't get the, the good mic, the good bacteria from the vaginal tract. So you want to set their microbiome up to, to be successful. So I very, I don't think other people, not a lot of people do that, but I've taught these guys to do that in terms of what the mom's eating in terms of what the. You know, if it's a breastfeeding mom. And encouraging that and encouraging at the. It's just pumps because that's a different microbiome. At every well visit, I talk about diet and, you know, trying not to do lots of processed foods, trying not to do lots of diets because I feel like that's a huge issue. Adding some basic supplements for health, whether it's this one's a little hyper or this one's a little anxious. I try to use food and nutrition and supplements and also just lifestyle. Talking about, are they on their screens all the time? Like, when do you read a book? When do you get outside and breathe fresh air? And not just, oh, yeah, you have your shots, go to kindergarten. Like, I do this at every well visit. So I try.

What are some, like, you mentioned screens? Like, what are some of the things that are. That you think are causing some of the chronic illness or the increased incidence of inflammation and attention issues and mental health concerns and. And I recognize I'm not, you know, you probably don't. You haven't done your own research here. But so, but just in terms of anecdotal lifestyle patterns, what are you seeing?

I think the world's pretty toxic. I mean, I think our food supply is really toxic. At the MAPS conference this spring, the number one theme was ultra processed food is really what's driving the inflammation for adults and for kids. So I am constantly talking, please don't give your child a lunchable. Just make your own lunchable. Get some fresh meat, get some fresh crackers. Like, get. Take all the processed stuff out and all the chemicals out you can make. You can still have a lunchable, but it's like a healthy lunchable without the chemicals. I can't tell you how many kids come in here and they're on their screens, whether they're a year old or they're 5 years old or they're 10. So if I have a kid that I see reading a book, I make a big deal about it. And I'm like, that's so great that you're coming in here with a book. And I mean, I really try to push the reading and the exercise and the fresh air, but the world in general, I mean, it's a pretty toxic place. There's a lot of stress going on. So these teenagers that are in this world that we live in, it's a lot on them. It's a lot of stress. So the news and the politics and it's a tough time to be a teenager.

I would concur with that. As a mental health therapist, a parent coach, an educator. Like, I would concur with all of that. I don't have the lens in terms of food intake, but I. I have done reading on my own for my own health. This has come up in other podcasts as a concussion survivor and a Lyme disease warrior, one over the other. Like, some of the functional medicine stuff is what finally got me out of the rut that I was in for. For close to like, like eight or seven or eight years. It was, you know. And so I do know that what you put in your body does affect you on a cellular level. And we don't think like that necessarily as Americans. I don't think that that's the. That's our thought. Like, hey, this. This, like, crappy snack that has a shelf life of three years that I could get in a vending machine someplace and is dyed orange, which I love, by the way. That's like black. I just love Cheetos anyway. Like, I don't eat them very much anymore. But, like, I. I certainly did when I was younger. Right. And that stuff has a way of affecting every cell in our body. That's what's fueling us.

But think, like, what society has done. Like, you go buy eggs and eggs are being bleached white to look a certain way. Most eggs don't come out white. They just don't. It's. It's done, like, everywhere. Like, I have to buy different eggs at Easter time to buy, to dye eggs, because the egg, the brown ones don't die.

Well.

I mean, if you really, if you ever go and eat, like, farm to table or eat somebody, you know, eggs that just came out, if one of your friends has chickens and you eat fresh eggs, they taste completely different.

They do.

And it's crazy. Like, if you go to Europe, their food supply is so much different. So I have people that have either a gluten sensitivity or a dairy sensitivity, and they really don't feel good in the United States, they go to Europe, they can eat that stuff all the entire vacation. They feel great. I mean, our food supply is really just. It's toxic, unfortunately. And for some people, that's a trigger. For some people, they don't react. But for other people, it really is.

But I think there's so many times where kids will come in with upset stomach complaints, headache complaints, and they're like these vague things, and it is hard to figure out an underpinning. Cause and you don't want to put your kid necessarily on a standing headache medication or stomach medication if it's not actually going to fix the problem or it's going to relieve symptoms for a short duration of time. It doesn't get at the underlying issue at hand.

Yeah. And there's a lot of kids that come in with chronic headache and they get diagnosed migraine. What's causing the headache? Like because is that gluten, is that post concussive, Is that Lyme or other tick borne concerns like Babesia? There's a lot of Babesia in this area that people just don't know about. And you're not going to pick that up. I mean most people aren't testing for it or chronic abdominal pain instead of just saying let's take a reflux medicine or you know, like what's causing it. Like looking at the whole picture, that's, that's kind of how I try to use functional medicine.

That's. And so you rattled off some of the cases, tick borne illness. Right. What are some other things that could be behind stuff? Like in the last week I've talked to families and they. And the chronic like digestive issues since the child was little, manifesting as with difficulty going to the bathroom. Right. Headaches, stomach aches. And of course as a therapist we all bring our lens to the table and so I'm like, okay, what could be the mental health related concern that the body could be reacting to or trauma? I like another patient talked about like getting very, very sick after a traumatic experience like the year prior. Well, it could have been the body's way of like being like, pay attention to me, like I've got unmet needs. Right. But what are some things that like if parents are seeing this stuff in their child, Chronic stomach ache, chronic. Like what? Give us like hypotheses, like what could parents think? Oh, could be, could be this, could be that, could be that. And then because how can we help parents be better advocates on behalf of their children with their providers?

I think I would just say that if the conventional means are not working, but they still have these chronic complaints, they should look into a functional medicine or integrative provider because conventional will do xyz. If they're still having symptoms and they're still just calling it chronic migraine or chronic this or you know, irritable bowel. There may be other, there may be other options. I can't give like one specific piece of advice. But like again, that's what happened for us. Like when the conventional World fails. There are things integrative medicine can do there. There's functional medicine, GI works, UPS and tests you can do. Is it a food sensitivity? Is it a bacterial overgrowth? Is it a bacteria just imbalance? Is it a leaky gut? Leaky gut and leaky brain go together. That can affect the mental health. You know, there's so many different connections. One of my favorite things that I've taught my providers about here, my husband's very sensitive to mold, so I learned all about mold. I never learned about that at Hopkins. We never discussed it. Right. It was. Anyway, I can't tell you how many college students come home and they are like, I was sick all year. I had no, I've been sick more than I've ever have. I'm chronically congested. I'm chronically tired. I'm like, well, you lived in a moldy dorm. Like, let's do some labs and let's detox you from mold, and let's never put you in mold again, and let's see how much better you feel do. That's such a classic one that, you know, I wouldn't have known about had I not been through my own experiences and having to learn about mold. But mold's a toxin. Mold, it suppresses the immune system. It. It affects the brain, it affects the mental health. So in so many ways, again, if there's a chronic symptom, just looking for more than just like, just label the symptom and give a drug, like, what's causing that common symptom?

What's really.

What's the root cause?

Well, so. And behind that is, like, you, for parents and kids, you deserve an answer for why this is happening for you. Because healthy bodies, this doesn't happen to healthy bodies, especially kids.

You know, it's also.

Kids are generally healthy.

Yeah. So the concept of functional medicine is there's something that's aggravating your body that.

That.

That's out of whack that shouldn't be there. Like, is it a food sensitivity? Is it a bacterial overgrowth? Is it mold? Is it a toxin? Or is there something your body is missing, like a nutrient deficiency, like, so like B12 and mental health or vitamin D and immune system? Like, you know, is there something that we need to get rid of? Is there something we need to add? And just trying to balance that for everything. Brain, gut, immune, mental health, like, everything.

So in terms of. You said, you know, I try and teach my providers this, like, your. Your training has been, you know, intentional on your part. You Know, spurred by life experience, but then intentional is. Would you say your practice is a. It's, it's not a, it's a hybrid, isn't it? It's not a functional medicine practice. There's like, tell us a little bit more about how your providers work and how you work to integrate this even through classical conventional medicine.

I try to teach my providers the basics. How much of that they go with is really up to them. Some do it more than others. No one does it as much as me. But I've been living this for so long. And you know, nobody here has a kid with autoimmune disease. Nobody kid has a husband who had Lyme, Babesia, mold toxicity, concussions. You know, I have these crazy life experiences. So I'm so passionate about these causes like concussions. Like the standard concussion is you go to, you know, the post concussive clinic and they just keep testing you until. So at Mid Atlantic, where I also work, they have a brain injury protocol. They do hyperbaric, they do lipids. There's, there's things you can do to actually help brain recovery.

But I learned that well after I had an injury before.

Yeah. So I do, you know, I teach them about it. How much they use that is really up to them. I do also offer to do consults. So if it's a kid that they're like, hey, I think this might be going on. I'm always happy to see their patients as a consult within our practice because again, this is my passion, trying to like help figure out what's wrong with these kids, get them back on the path to health. So not every provider here is, no one here is like me. But I've taught them and they will come up to me and ask me questions and they'll pick up things that other providers, you know, don't even know about. They all test for food sensitivities. They test everybody for celiac, because celiac, if you really look for it, it's, it's very easy to pick up. So that kind of stuff they do much more routinely than I think I did before any of my experiences.

And have you found that. I'm having a perimenopausal moment? Patience, that's the word that wouldn't come out of my mouth. Have you found that your patients outcomes improve with this more comprehensive approach?

Absolutely. Because if you're treating the root cause and you're not just treating the symptom, they're much healthier.

And I think one thing that I've heard in Feedback and when people get frustrated is in some of the more conventional routes, like when you hit that wall, they'll go back to those providers and they get no further advice. And parents are left really frustrated without an answer for their kid. And I think knowing you well, you're not going to leave any stone unturned and you'll go that extra next few steps to really make sure everything has been comprehensively looked at. And I think that's really reassuring for parents so that they're not sitting there second guessing. I mean not every parent has the medical knowledge to know what is or is not the route to go. And I've had many frustrated parents in my office that have been to GI numerous times and they're just not getting anywhere.

And I see kids more at my mid Atlanta practice, which is not Arundel Pete's. That's all convention. I mean that's all functional medicine. And they'll come in and they'll have had a GI workup, an allergy workup, a neuro work of a. This, this, this a rheumatology workup. They've been told they have juvenile fibromyalgia, whatever. The kid has babesia. We treat the babesia, the kids out of the wheelchair and the kid's normal. Like it's crazy. So just again, really looking for root causes and trying. Yeah, I do try and find like there's only about 2 of my patients I really, I've helped can't fix them completely. But that's very frustrating for me. For the most part I work really hard and I get to the bottom of this and no one else can fix them either. By the way, I've sent them to spell, but for the most part, yeah, you just, if you use this approach, it generally works really well. It can be hard and it can take a lot of time but.

And how about insurance? I found because functional medicine was a, like I went to functional medicine when conventional medicine failed me and I have found it to be pocket draining and I don't know, I'm really hoping that the world of traditional medicine is moving in the direction of root cause investigations. But there's a tail wagging the dog thing happening. When insurance companies need a diagnostic code and they've determined like these are the treatments that we will accept for this particular code. And if your treatment is outside of the accepted codes in our manual, all bets are off. But so how does, how does, like how does that work?

Well, insurance is terrible anyway in terms of they don't pay for as hard as I Work. And I have so many complicated patients. Like, I make the least of any person here in my practice because I'm spending all my time with these patients.

Yes.

My chronically ill patients. It's never a 10 minute visit. And I've been here the longest. I'm always full. I literally make the least amount of money. So that should tell you something.

Something. Yeah, there we go right there.

Medicine. Patient providers don't take insurance is they're spending two hours with a patient. You can't do that with an insurance model. And it's unfortunate, but it just won't work. So for you to get the kind of care and the kind of testing, insurance models just don't work. And that's frustrating and that's, you know, upsetting. But on the other hand, I don't know how to change that part of it.

I know. Yeah.

It's the same world I live in, Sam. Like, no one's going to pay me to spend an hour and a half, two hours talking to someone.

Exactly. And that's what I tell my patients. I'm like, if you want a good psychiatrist, they won't take insurance. So you decide it's your children's mental health, you'd want to go to somebody really good. Once they get you set up, I'm happy to take over. But like, that's an investment, right? That's, that's something that's worth investing in versus someone who takes insurance and they're going to spend 15 minutes, are they really going to pick the right thing?

This is a, it's a. So it's so hard that like, some of the, like the subtleties of, of getting, like really, really getting to the bottom of what's going to be a game changer for a patient are not supported by our current healthcare system.

Do you have some basic kind of like, well, kid, this is something I'm going to recommend for every kid, for every parent to do for their kid. For the kid that probably isn't your complex patient, you have plenty of those.

Yeah, for my, well, kids, I just make sure that their diet is good and their lifestyle is good. And I really push the reading and exercise and fresh air. And then I do basic supplements. So, like, I usually will do a multivitamin unless they're really eating 8 to 10 servings of fruits and vegetables, which nobody is. I'll do vitamin D, fall through the spring, different doses, depending on the age. If there's an autoimmune history, I'll do a probiotic. And then, you know, Like, I'll do some basic supplements if it's an anxious kid, but not enough to need anxiety medicine. There's some nice supplements you can use just to help increase gaba and just do some calming magnesium. Just some, like, some basic stuff for. For well, but not complicated kids. That's usually my. My go to for that.

Are there certain. I get this question all the time, and I honestly do not know the right answer. Are there certain brands of supplements for kids that are better than others? Because, you know, you do a Google search and you're gonna get slammed with the masses.

Yeah.

And I never know what to say sometimes to families when they're asking for a specific brand for X supplement.

There are. And we actually just started using fullscripts through my office, which I love, because now I can send patients a list of which supplements I want them to get, which is great.

I've had a provider use that. I love it.

Yeah, it's great. We didn't use it for a while for some reason. I don't know probiotics. I like Clear Labs or Metagenix or Megaspore for multivitamin. It just depends on the age. But, yes, you should know there are some that are. That are higher quality than others. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Like, you shouldn't buy CBD at Target. Like, CBD is great. Good for inflammation, good for pain, good for pans and pandas, good for eczema. But don't just get it at, like, cvs. Like, it needs to be a good quality topical cbd.

So how would. How would a layperson determine what, like, what. What's a good supplement provider versus an iffy one?

I don't know. Because I'm not. I'm not alone.

I know. Like, so would that be like, like con. Like contact of someone who's got some experience with functional medicine, a nutritionist? Like, like, find someone who's got some. Their hand in the supplement world a little bit.

Probably.

Yeah.

I will say traditional training. You're not trained in the supplements, Sam. Like, I know you don't get this training.

Yeah, I know I was taking the wrong stuff. I like, this is this. This all, like, is a language I've learned to speak. And I'm not an md, nor do I want to be one. This is not. This is not a field that excites me. And yet, like, I had to, like, learn about it for my own health.

Perfect example. When people say, oh, yeah, my kid takes a Flintstones every day, so they have no B vitamins. They have so much junk in Them like replace that with what do we do for kids? So first day makes a gummy that's really good for kids. Haya H I Y A makes a chewable that's really good for kids. Smarty pants makes a gummy. And they have lots of nutrients, including B vitamins, which usually don't taste good. So that's why they're not in Flintstones. And they don't have a lot of chemicals and they're gluten free, dairy free, so they're not a lot of processed, but they're high nutrient value. So it's just kind of finding someone who knows that stuff. Yeah.

Okay. Awesome. We are so glad to just have this perspective. I feel like this is our podcast is about parenting, but it's about giving parents the tools and frameworks they need to promote or to set their children up for the highest potential and their household for the greatest amount of peace, which is all any of us want on any given day anyway. For our kids to become who they're meant to be and for us to be in connection and in a place of calm while that's happening, that's certainly not a possibility all the time. But what we've talked about today are these. They're like these small, subtle shifts that can have this butterfly effect in terms of. And some of them aren't small or subtle. Some of them are. But functional medicine is like, I'm going to get down and I'm going to get granular about what's going on behind the scenes for kids and their health. And it isn't all supplement based. I love what you said about lifestyle. Like, get off the screens, get some sunshine, move your body, read a book.

Well, you can take your vitamin D by going outside.

Right? Like we know what it means to be in relationship with people. You know, take some deep breaths. Like all these things have significant body impact as well.

Absolutely.

So Rebecca's practice is called Arundel Pediatrics. And the. And your functional medicine practice is Mid Atlantic Health Institute.

I work there.

We can put both of those in the show notes. I hope you can put both.

I work there very part time right now and it's hard because I could go there full time and do a lot, but I just feel very passionately about being here doing the preventive part too. And like, you know, preventing this, some of this autoimmune stuff and preventing some of the other stuff and teaching my providers here just a little bit of this world because I do feel like even the littlest bit that we do here it's, it makes a huge difference. It really does. I feel.

So. So you might, I mean, Rebecca's a busy woman.

You may not see me, but you.

Might not see her. But you can at least understand, you can read about her practice. You can read better philosophy. And you can if you're in the Annapolis area and if you're not in the Annapolis area, you can kind of just get a sense of what this type of practice stands to do for your children, for your family. And I hope that the conversation today has opened some doors, made people think, perhaps raised some good questions that people can take to their local providers and start unpacking. So thank you for being on here and for doing the work that you do.

Thank you for inviting me. And if people are interested in terms of finding a functional provider, I think it's ifm.org insta institute of functional medicine.org there's a tab that says find a provider. And there's a similar tab under Maps. If I could remember what that is, medical or something like that. But under both of those, people that have those trainings will be listed on there. So if people are looking for somebody who wants to do those kind of consults and they're not primary care, they're consults. But that's a nice resource for people if they would like to try and find someone.

Awesome. Awesome. Maybe we can put that in the show notes as well. Maybe you'll forward that to us and we can put those links for folks to check out. Dr. Rebecca Vickers, thank you for being on Parenting Shrink Craft and for doing the work that you do. Listeners, thank you for tuning in for another episode. We love you. We love your kids. Thank you for raising the next generation of world changers. We'll see you at the next episode. Thanks for joining us on this wild ride called Parenthood here at Parenting Shrink Wrapped. We hope today's episode gave you some useful tools and maybe even a few laughs to help you navigate the twists and turns of raising teens and kids.

Remember, parenting is a journey, not a destination. And no matter where you are on the road, we're here to help you stay on course, whether it's monumental meltdowns, teenage turmoil, or just the everyday kids chaos. You don't have to travel this path alone.

So until next time, keep your seat belt fastened, your sense of humor intact, and your eyes on the road. We'll be back soon with more compassionate conversations and practical strategies to support you and your family.

Don't forget to subscribe to Parenting Shrinkcraft wherever you get your podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you'd leave us a review and and share it with a friend.

If you have suggestions for topics you'd like to see us cover in the future, feel free to send us an email@parenting shrinkraftmail.com until we meet again.

Take care and enjoy the ride.

Foreign.

Hi there, it's Sam. Before you go, let's talk about that moment. You know the one when your kid screws up in some big or little way and you know the lesson you want them to learn from the experience, but you're not sure how to say it in a way that they'll actually hear. How do you teach when you know your kid is at risk of shutting down or shutting you out? I have an answer. I created a free guide that walks you through a simple step by step framework for handling these tough conversations. I call it the Loved Framework and each letter stands for a different step. I originally designed it for parents of teens, but honestly, it works for kids of all ages. With this guide, you'll know exactly what to say when your kid messes up so that your child will listen, learn and grow without the shutdowns, the power struggles, or the guilt trips. It's linked in the show notes under how to have a you screwed up Conversation and you can also head over to my website www.teensavvycoaching.com and find it there. If you are ready to keep your cool and keep the parent child connection strong even during a you screwed up conversation with your kiddo, grab your free guide now. As always, thank you so much for listening to Parenting Shrink Wrapped and see you next time.