#74: A Holistic Pediatrician’s Approach to Preventing Osteoporosis in Kids w/ Dr. Elisa Song, MD + BoneCoach™ Osteoporosis & Osteopenia

Welcome to the Bone Coach show, dedicated to helping you understand all things related to diet, lifestyle, bone health and how you can live and thrive with low bone density and osteoporosis. I'm your host, Kevin Ellis, certified health coach, health and wellness speaker, and above all else, your bone coach. After being diagnosed with osteoporosis in my early 30s, I transformed my health through diet and lifestyle and now help my clients and community members do the same through my online coaching practice. Bonecoach.com look, there are no quick and easy cures for low bone density, but the choices we make every single day can have a powerful impact on our bones, our health and our general well being. I'll share the research, interview the experts and help you figure out how to get the conditions right in your body so you can better your bones through diet and lifestyle. Short disclaimer I'm not a medical doctor and this show should not be considered medical advice. Always consult with your healthcare team before making medical decisions and changes to your diet and lifestyle. With that being said, let's get on with the show.

Most parents don't fully grasp is that the state of your child's gut microbiome, especially in those critical birth, even before birth to the first two years of life, can really set the stage for what does their future physical, mental and immune health look like. Even their bone health. Right? All of that gets laid. And so you know what we really want to help support is the gut bone connection, the gut brain connection, the gut immune system connection, the gut hormone connection. And the foundation is really in your healthy gut microbiome. All of those trillions and trillions of microorganisms in your gut that are beneficial probiotics.

If you haven't done so already, especially if you're newly diagnosed with osteopenia or osteoporosis or or if your most recent bone density scan still showed more bone loss. Go ahead and pause this episode and head over to bonecoach.com to sign up for your free seven day osteoporosis kickstart guide that's going to give you everything you need step by step by step over the next seven days to get on the path to improvement and stronger bones. You won't want to miss that. So pause this right now, head over to bonecoach.com and I'll be here as soon as you get back. Welcome welcome to this episode of the Bone Coach Show. Joining us today to explore a holistic pediatrician's approach to preventing osteoporosis in Kids is Dr. Lisa Song Dr. Lisa Song is an integrative pediatrician, pediatric functional medicine expert, and mom to two thriving children in her integrative pediatric practice, Whole family wellness at www.wholefamilywellness.org. she's helped thousands of kids get to the root causes of their health concerns and help their parents understand how to help their children thrive in mind, body and spirit by integrating conventional pediatrics with functional medicine, homeopathy, acupuncture, herbal medicine and essential oils. Dr. Song also created Healthy Kids, Happy Kids, which you can find at www.healthykids happy kids.com as an online holistic pediatric resource to help practitioners and parents bridge the gap between conventional and integrated pediatrics with an evidence based pediatrician backed approach. Dr. Lisa Song, it is great to have you here today.

Thanks Kevin. I always love chatting with you. I wish we could be in person, but this will have to do.

I know this will have to do, but. Well, let's. This is such an important topic. I mean, this is something I'm personally really passionate about. I mean, we're talking about a holistic approach to preventing osteoporosis in kids. I mean, right now we specifically focus on working with people that are in their 40s, 50s, 60s plus, mostly women that have osteopenia, osteoporosis. So they already are aware that this is something they have and they're trying to actively address it. But a big passion area of mine is our kids, right? And so many of us, they're mothers or grandmothers, they're thinking about not only how can I take care of myself, but how can I protect and focus and shepherd these human beings that are so near and dear to my heart. And this is such an important topic.

Yeah, it's so important. I mean, we were just talking offline beforehand about these young athletes, these teenagers. I was in a professional sports clinic in my residency in San Francisco and this doc was taking care of these high level athletes and there were ballet dancers who were coming in who had the bones of like 60 year olds. And what struck me was that he said was just so, it just, it stuck with me that 90% of the bone that you lay down, it's done by the time you're 18, right? And then almost all of it by the time you're in your mid-20s. And it's all loss after that. Unless you know, you know how to really preserve your bone health, which is how you're supporting and helping even, you know, develop more bone. But you got to lay it down if you want to keep it right. If you get older and you haven't laid down that healthy bone, you don't have as much to start with when the bone breakdown starts to happen.

Exactly. And, and this is such an important topic. That's why prevention is always better than reaction. And let's even talk about, before we get into talking about osteoporosis, specifically in kids, maybe can you just share a little bit about your story? How did you get to the point where you wanted to be a holistic pediatrician?

You know, it's interesting. It actually was sort of always an interest of mine, even from my days as an undergrad at Stanford. I mean, first of all, I always want to work with kids. You know, I was like a die hard babysitter in high school and I thought I actually was going to be a teacher. So my first route was going into education. And then I thought, well, maybe I'll do education policy. And then I was going to be a lawyer and doing civil rights law for children. So it's advocacy for kids has always been a passion of mine. Medicine was kind of on, on the back burner because my mom was a doctor growing up. She was an OB gyn. And honestly, all the time she spent away from home and how busy she was, I'm like, I don't want to do that, you know, and so it wasn't until my, my junior year, summer, heading into senior year that I was like, you know what, I just, I want to work with kids and where can I make the biggest impact? And I stumbled upon this flyer for this American Holistic Medical association conference. And so, I mean, I made my way down there and I was so hooked. And I'm, you know, I'm going to age myself. This was like in the, you know, late 80s, right? And, and here I am, this like, you know, 19 year old kid and thinking I'm going to go into medicine and what is this holistic medicine? And I heard folks who were just starting to get known like Andrew Weil and Deepak Chopra and I mean my eyes were like, you know, just, I mean, so blown away, right? And so I remember telling my mom at that point, I'm like, you know, I think I want to be a doctor, but I think I want to be this thing called a naturopathic doctor. And you know, back then nobody knew in my world what that was, so I would have been supported. But I ended up going the traditional medicine route. And even then it was always in my mind, how am I going to integrate this? I mean, we need to focus. We say prevention, but we're really not preventing much in conventional medicine. We're not. Prevention is more. And I've moved away from thinking about what I practice as prevention medicine, because when we try to prevent something, something, what we always have in mind is that thing, that awful thing that we don't want our kids to have. Right. So we're holding this vision of, oh, my gosh, these chronic diseases and osteoporosis and diabetes and heart disease and anxiety and depression. Like, we're just, we're trying to stay away from that. And what we really want instead is to practice more of. What I'm really trying to shift into is thriving medicine. Right. We hold a picture of our kids in the most amazing health possible. And how do we move towards that? I mean, that is true what I think, you know, people really intended for preventive medicine to be. And so, you know, that. That is my, my life's work right now is talking with, with someone about how, you know, all the different steps we can do to change the world. And if we could get these, you know, these professional athletes and these people that, you know, kids look up to, to really understand what it means to help kids thrive, I think that, I mean, it would be amazing. Right. My job would be done.

I love that thriving medicine or, or that thriving approach. You know, you're moving toward the outcome you're seeking versus away from the disease that you're trying to avoid. I love that. And, and maybe let's, let's talk about, you know, in kids for preventing osteoporosis, or if we're looking at thriving, building stronger bones in kids, what are the steps in reducing the risk of having bone loss or not reaching peak bone mass or, you know, potentially having issues down the line with their bone health?

Yeah. You know, and none of these really is rocket science. Right. I mean, these are things that we know lead to optimal health in everyone. It's just time to really embrace them. And what we know about bone health and kids, again, all of your bones are really laid down, the vast majority in childhood. And so what do we need? I mean, the most important thing and the thing that probably slid the most during the pandemic is movement. I mean, we are not moving our bodies. And I'm not going to let myself off the hook. I mean, during the pandemic, doing all of these virtual appointments with. With telehealth really exploding. I mean, some days I would look at my steps and be horrified because that is just the way that life has moved towards. But it's also the way that during the pandemic our kids were really struggling with the movement which then affected their brain health and their gut health and their immune health and their bone health. And so moving, exercising, this has to be made a price priority. And you know, really and truly, children should be getting at least one hour of vigorous, like heart pumping, breathing fast, you can't have a normal conversation, getting a little sweaty kind of exercise every day. And it doesn't have to be consecutive. I mean, when you walk into school, that brisk walk, or starting your day with a bicycle ride to school, and then after school, you jumping on the trampoline while you're waiting to go to soccer practice, I mean, whatever it is, but the cumulative. And you know, we would think, okay, if we, if we combine and add up all of the ways that our kids are moving throughout the day, I bet they can get an hour. But, but you know what, it's not true for a lot of kids. And it's really, I don't have my phone with me, but it's the screens, right? I mean, that's one of the biggest things. It used to be the TVs. I mean, I grew up without these, these things, right? I mean, my first video game was, it was, it was Atari, it was Asteroids, right? With a little joystick and the orange button. I mean, that's what I grew up where I grew up. But even then we knew that the more TV hours a kid watched, the higher their risk for obesity and overweight. And so we have to think, when your kids are on your screens, what are they not doing? They're not moving their bodies, they're not exercising vigorously, they're not connecting socially with other kids in a face to face way. And I'm not going to say all social media is bad and kids should, I don't think kids should have social media accounts. However, connecting in person like irl, that's been found to be one of the most protective things from the anxiety and the depression and the mental health problems caused by screens. And then hand in hand with that, we know that obesity and overweight rates since the pandemic in children has really significantly increased. And so, you know, maintaining a healthy weight and exercise, that's one of the keys to healthy life. It's the key to healthy bones, right? And you know, and then we think about, you know, what foods our kids are getting to nourish their bones. And it's not just about the milk, right? I mean, and truth be told, for a Lot of my kids with inflammatory, more persistent health concerns, whether it's, you know, chronic constipation or, you know, anxiety or focus issues or asthma and eczema. Most of them, at least while we're trying to heal what's going on. Dairy is too inflammatory. So I have them get off of the, you know, guzzling the, like, 40 ounces of milk a day, which anyway is not good. Right. But yeah, we have to think about all the other sources of calcium, like our, you know, nuts and seeds and our green leafy vegetables and, you know, our, our canned salmon. Right. And sardines and eating the bones and really being creative because there's so many different ways that we can. We can get that in. So, you know, it's about getting in the right stuff to build down, lay down the foundations of healthy bone and then, you know, having the lifestyle components that make sure. Sure that that bone gets laid down instead of broken down.

Both of those are so important. Exercise, nutrition, so foundational, especially in kids from a young age. For exercise specifically. You know, I've got kids, too, and this is. It's important for them to see me exercising also. I lead by example. I want to lead by example. And I will see them, like, sometimes I'll use. If I'm doing this at home, I might use some heavier resistance bands or something like that, or I might be doing burpees or some kind of movement, and they will jump in and they'll want to do it too. And then I get a teach. I get a father moment, a nice father moment there where, you know, I get to show them and guide them. And it just feels really good. It's really rewarding for me. And then it's also helping them understand, like, this is what healthy habits can look like from an exercise perspective. Also, you mentioned one hour of vigorous exercise a day. You're right. I bet a lot of kids are not getting that. And because of the screens, because they're sitting down, focus on their tablets and they don't have trackers like a lot of us have. Right. They don't have the, the apple watch or the Oura ring. So I think it's important to make. Make sure we're focused on that. When you mentioned nutrition, do you have any ideas? So let's say there are kids that, you know, temporarily are removing dairy or something like that from their diets. What are the, what are some creative ways that you. You've found that help kids bring some of these nutrients into their diets that they may have to have to pull out for one reason or another.

Yeah. And so, you know, when I have a list, like a shopping list, kind of a little infographic that, you know, during. During the pandemic, I really made it for food as medicine for building up immune resilience. But there are different lists that I have. And so having that list and really helping your kids select from that list. And let's say we create a bone healthy list, you know, for really focusing on the bones. Right. What's a bone healthy list of, you know, fruits, vegetables, foods that we can get in. And then when you're doing your shopping, whether you go with your kids or not, have them be involved in like picking a couple of items from that list every week, because you're much more likely to kids and adults much more likely to try something, be invested in maybe, maybe giving it a go if you have a hand in choosing it. Right. And then, you know, having your kids help you cook in the kitchen. I mean, kids can start cooking at way young ages. And I mean, at this point now I'm like, oh my gosh, I never have to make breakfast if I don't want to. And I love making breakfast and cooking. But, you know, the kids bode now is 11, Kenzie's 13, but since they were about 8, they were, you know, able to scramble eggs, make pancakes for us. You know, bode's now to making homemade pastas. I mean, it's really, you know, the. The limits that we think our kids have are really, most of the time they're in our minds, right? I mean, we just have to say, look, let's. We can do this. It might take a little bit more time, you know, a little more patience, but we can do that. And then, you know, really, I would say, you know, nuts, seeds and legumes. Right. You know, those legumes are really, let's say legumes are probably one of the least eaten food groups right in for children. And they are really packed with protein and fiber, and they're going to have, you know, good calcium in them. And so, you know, having those opportunities, you could make try it in different ways. Like, I just happen to love garbanzo beans, so you can try dry roast garbanzo beans. You just make sure you take off the skins and dry them really, really well. And then you can toss them in a little oil, some seasoning, whether you like, savory or, you know, salty or whatever it is. And then you just roast them in the oven until they're really crunchy. And I mean, they're so good, right? They're just crunchy little snacks that you can have right there. You know, just put them in a little jar and they're in their lunchbox. So getting creative with that because when we think of garbanzo beans, we think, okay, maybe some, you know, we'll have some hummus, right? But you can incorporate those. You can actually even put them into smoothies. I mean, not a huge amount, but some. And it's not going to really alter the flavor. If your kids like smoothies, that's one of the easiest ways to try to get in some of these calcium rich foods. We're heading into the summer, but I don't know, by me, it's still cold enough to have soups. So if your kids are not the most adventurous eaters, then having an immersion blender where you take these foods and you just, in your, in your soup base, you just kind of blend them all, puree them all, get all the specks. If your kids aren't into the green, just really blend as much as possible. Add, you know, adding some tomatoes in there can mask some of that green color. I mean, it's just, it's not. And it's not about tricking them, right? It's about showing them. Look, you know, these foods that, that I know your brain is telling you you don't like right now, they can be really delic. You know, we're going to slowly try to get you used to them. So that's another trick that can be really, really helpful. And like, I mean, just like you said with the exercise, you have to practice what you preach. You know, I've had some parents who, you know, they, they admit to me like, I don't really like vegetables. And then I'm like, well, it's going to be really hard for your kid to like vegetables then, right? So, you know, having them available. So we want, we want them to, to see that you enjoy vegetables. And let's say even if you're not the hugest vegetable fan. You know what, we do some things that we don't love to do because we know that it's really important for us, right? That we know. I mean, sure, would I love to stay up until like two in the morning like hanging out and. Yeah, but really, I mean, how good is that for you if it's done on a regular basis, right? So modeling it and then having it be accessible. I mean, just having, you know, some like chopped vegetables and having, you know, a bowl of nuts and seeds just available on the table after they come home from school. So they know, okay, if I'm hungry, I'm not going to rummage in the cupboard and grab the package of potato chips. This is what's here. Right. So, I mean, at least they'll be a little more likely to kind of grab and go and, you know, eat that throughout the day as opposed to just going for the stuff in the cupboard, which, I mean, most things in our pantries that are snackable items are usually not the most nourishing. Right.

Totally agree. And you brought up another example of how it's important to set the example or why it's important to set the example as the adult and that we can get our kids cooking from a younger age. When you mentioned scrambling eggs and things like that, that was one of the first things that my daughter saw, saw me doing, making eggs in the morning, and she wanted to do it. She's a little scared to do it at first. And I, gosh, I don't know if it was when she was 4, maybe is when she started. And I told her, don't touch the pan, don't touch. She accidentally grabbed the pan. She burnt her hand. Fortunately, she got back up there. She was doing it again. But she did eggs. She did, like, sauteed some onions and carrots. We do kale chips. And instead of dessert and having a candy bowl out or a chocolate bowl out or something like that, we actually do. We have them make their own organic berry bowls with a little bit of honey, too. So I love it. Swapping, swapping out those things. How can we find better additions and not make them feel like they're missing out on, you know, this candy or something like that.

Yeah. That is really the key one to healthy eating is taking away if we have this mindset, and sometimes it's not us, sometimes it might be grandparents, but having this mindset that, oh, well, you know, you're depriving them if they don't have all the. All the stuff like the blue stuff and the fried stuff and the red dye stuff that all their friends are having, you know, so we have to really, really, you know, get out of that mindset and recognize that, you know, how we are nourishing our kids. That is a gift that we can give to them. Right. It's not about depriving. It's about really nourishing our kids, you know, with everything that we can and everything we know.

Yes. Gosh, you and I are so aligned on this. And by the way, like, these. These dyes and stuff like that, that are added to these foods, they haven't been around for long periods of time. And you know, there is research that shows that some of these things that are put in as additives to these candies and treats, they're not good for health. So beyond, beyond just the sugar, right? Could you even talk about that? What are some of the things that are added into maybe candies or sweet treats or whatever that kids should not be eating?

Yeah, well, and I always look at things through the lens of, you know, how is this affecting our kids gut health? Because that, you know, we can get into that too, our kids gut microbiomes. And most of your listeners have heard of gut microbiomes and probiotics and all that. But for children, what, what most parents don't fully grasp is that the state of your child's gut microbiome, especially in those critical birth, even before birth to the first two years of life, can really set the stage for what does their future physical, mental and immune health look like. Even their bone health. All of that gets laid. And so what we really want to help support is the gut bone connection, the gut brain connection, the gut immune system connection, the gut hormone connection. And the foundation is really in your healthy gut microbiome, all of those trillions and trillions of microorganisms in your gut that are beneficial. Right. Probiotics. The problem is the way we live nowadays. And it's not just the food, the ultra processed packaged foods, it's also our lifestyles, right? Not enough sleep, too much stress, not enough exercise. All of those work to disrupt our gut microbiome. Get those gut bugs not so happy. So now they're not probiotics anymore. They're dysbiotic organisms. Right. And so food additives, I mean, let's talk about the ultra processed food industry is insane now. And like you said, it's not just about the sugar. I mean, that has gone crazy too in our taste buds. We have to remember packaged food manufacturers, they, most of them, right. There is, there is a, you know, a movement towards better for you foods. And, and even then you have to be a little suspect, right, because it's still about the selling. Right? But when, when the packaged food industry was first started, yes, it was about convenience. And I'm gonna take a step back and, and let everyone listening know that for me as a holistic pediatrician and a mom, I do have packages in my cupboard. Okay. I mean, I, you know, I shop at Trader Joe's and you know, I buy packaged items and I don't make my own pasta sauce. I buy the jarred stuff, right? However, you can do that in a way that. So I teach kids how to be gut heroes, right? How to read food labels like gut heroes. Because that is so important. Because there are some foods that you're like, okay, you look at if you have, you know, two options for marinara sauce, right? You want to make some spaghetti meatballs. There are some that are going to be just fine. Made with whole foods, no additives. And others are you like, oh my gosh, let's put that back, right. So you know, the, the food additives that are especially really important to know about for your kids brains and their immune systems and their guts and all of this again, I mean, we're talking about preventing osteoporosis. It is all going to, you know, help support healthy bone growth. The FDA approved additives, I mean these are FDA approved. And I'm not just talking about, you know, artificial ones. I'm talking about, you know, even some, some quote natural food additives, but things like emulsifiers. They're the, the diglycerides and monoglycerides. That's what you look for in the package that are the things that hold food together, right? Like think about an ice cream, a tub of ice cream that, you know, stays a nice creamy shape even if it's out of the fridge for a while, you know, or, you know, I don't know, however, months old. But these emulsifiers have been found, they're even found in some infant formulas. They've been found to directly disrupt and harm the gut microbiome. And so when you're looking at those packages, just choose ones. You can always choose ones without the emulsifiers, right? Without, they can find, you know, I forget which one is it? The Strauss ice cream. There are several ice creams that don't have the diglycerides and the monoglycerides. You mentioned the colors, those colors, right? If you see like blue lake, whatever, red dye three, you know, yellow, yellow six. I mean all of those, I mean, first of all, they're all chemicals, right? But also those literally, especially for kids who may have a family history of anxiety or depression or maybe they've had some behavioral concerns or mood concerns or focus concerns. Those colors are poison to your kids brains. I mean they're just, I mean literally. And you know, they're here in the state of California, there's a movement to die. The red ban, the red 40. I mean all of these should be banned, right? I remember, I think it was in 2000, maybe it was 2017 or 18. Nestle announced that they were going to move towards natural, you know, food based colors for their things like M&M's. Not because if there was anything wrong with the artificial ones, but because there was more consumer demand. But you know, kids want that rainbow colored thing, right? And so we have to let them know that rainbow tutti fruity unicorn flavored colored thing is really, it's if they want to feel calm in their body, you know, if they want to be able to go to sleep without worries on their mind, right. If they want to be able to sit still in class and not be called out by the teacher as much. I mean, all of those things make a difference. So I would say really when you're choosing packaged foods, that's one thing. Learn what to look for in a label, what to avoid and teach your kids. Because at some point, like my kids now, they're, they're tweens. I mean they're going downtown by themselves and, and we're talking about, you know, which foods are, are strong foods, which foods are not strong foods and how they can make good choices. And if they choose the thing that I'm cringing about right Then, I mean, I don't get on them really hard. But you just, I just say, look, can you notice, right? Let's just notice how you feel after this, right? I mean, you kind of had a hard night afterwards. Do you think it could have been from the Takis with the artificial flavors and the red dye? Or you were really, you did not run as fast on the soccer field as you were disappointed in how you played. Do you think it could have affected your performance? So really making it relevant for them, Right. As kids get older, it's often about their skin and their hair. So yes, the food you eat and the health of your gut microbiome affects how many zits you're going to have. So that's really. When we talk to kids about their gut health and foods, we don't want to make it a never food or that's so bad for you. Oh, that's junk food. I mean we can, I do say that's junkie. Right. But we want to really, really teach it in a more empowering way so they know what are my goals? Like what do I really, you know, what's important to me? Is it important that I, you know, I'm really on for my chess tournament on the weekend. Okay, well, let's think about how we do that. We need to get good Sleep the night before. Let's get foods that your brain actually will be happy about. Right.

And I love what you're sharing here is that you're not just telling. We're not just telling kids, no, don't do that. Right. And not giving a reason why. Like, yes, as adults, you don't have to give a reason why, but you should. Right. Help ed. That's part of the education. You should share with them why they would not want to do something or the benefits that they could get from doing something or not or. Or not doing something. So I love what you're sharing here. And we talked about gut health. Can you talk about what are some of the best strategies to support optimal gut health in kids?

Yeah. And so, you know, if. For. And I will say, you know, for some kids, bone health is going to be important for them. Right. Because they've seen grandma, like, hunched over and can barely straighten up, and everyone's really careful, so when she's walking up the sidewalk so she doesn't fall and fracture her hip. Or maybe they have a relative who did fracture a hip. And we have kids who see that, who have family members who have undergone that. So we want to talk about their gut health, too, in the context of their bones. I mean, I had one dad, and we could talk about the factors, too, that disrupt the gut. But this one dad, I mean, he was a young dad, anesthesiologist, but he had really bad asthma as a kid, and he was placed on, you know, so many rounds of steroids. And steroids are, you know, really, really. I mean, they can be really necessary to put out the inflammation. Right. But then we have to understand what are some of the unintended consequences. And bone health and osteoporosis is one of them. Right. So he had been given so many rounds of oral and inhaled steroids that he was so osteoporotic by the time he was in his mid-40s that he was told by his doctor, you should never play basketball or ski with your kids. Right. Ever. Because he was so at risk for vertebral fractures. I mean, that's heartbreaking. Right? And nobody told his parents that. And honestly, a lot of doctors back then, they didn't know that. Right. And even now, a lot of physicians don't understand the ramifications of some of these medications that we give to our kids, our babies and our young children, if they're necessary. Absolutely do it. But then know how to mop up the damage. Right. And know how to help kids recover. Not Just, you know, in a state that is a less, well, baseline, but get them back to optimal health. Right. So anyhow, that's really important for me because the things that we do in medicine to our kids are often the things that lead later to these chronic diseases that we think, oh, my gosh, if we had just done things a little differently when they were kids. That's why I'm so glad you're. You're really focusing on kids right now because it truly is where it starts.

Can we talk about the antibiotic use, you know, when. Because a lot of times this is a big decision point for a lot of parents. Right. We were faced with these decisions, too. And a lot of people don't want to use antibiotics if they don't have to. I mean, if somebody goes the route of. I'd love to find out what are the alternative options to antibiotics potentially for different situations, and what are, what are the implications of using antibiotics in kids? Like, how does that affect them then and later in life?

Yeah, well, you know, let's talk. It's. So antibiotics and also another class of medicines called antacids are very commonly used in babies, too. Right. You know, and there's one study that found that babies who were given antacid or antibiotic medicines in that in the first six months of life had an increased risk of pretty much every single allergic disease. Eczema, asthma, hay fever, anaphylactic food allergies, hives by the time they were four years of age. And the researchers then, this was nearly 800,000 kids that were studied. The researchers postulated that it was likely due to this shift in the developing gut microbiome that then informed how. How their developing immune system was developing. We also know that antibiotic use in toddlerhood significantly increases the risk of mental health concerns in older kids and teenagers. I mean, by up to 50% in some studies. And the more the rounds of antibiotics, the higher the risk. Right. And then when it comes specifically to bone health. So ampicillin, which is an IV form of amoxicillin, which is the most commonly prescribed antibiotic hepatic in kids. Right. And, you know, in my, in my, you know, former, before I was an integrated pediatrician, I mean, like every day it was a prescription after prescription after prescription for amoxicillin. Right. And so specifically for. For bones, there was one study, we know that antibiotics like amoxicillin can directly cause dysbiosis and bone loss. Right. There's a direct link there. Right. So this one mouse study looked at supporting Giving those mice who were being fed this water laced, I mean, this amoxicillin laced water and developing bone loss as a result. They gave those mice probiotic supplements, right? And the mice that were supplemented with a particular probiotic didn't have any bone loss even getting the same antibiotics. So it's not that, you know, antibiotics are all bad and must always, always avoid. It's more that. Okay, let's first of all know when they're really, really necessary, okay? Because unfortunately for kids, some studies have shown that Maybe upwards of 70% of all antibiotics written for children are unnecessary prescriptions given for things like viral infections that are going to clinically clear. And antibiotics have. Aren't going to do anything to kill those viruses. They only kill bacteria. Right? And unfortunately, not just the bad bacteria, but also the good bacteria in your gut. Right? So, and then, so if we know what's necessary, then help support your child's gut microbiome to bounce right back, you know, give them probiotic supplementations. And I'm moving away. It's not just about the probiotics, right? It's about how you feed those good gut bugs too, right? It's about the fiber and, you know, fruits and vegetables and fermented foods like, you know, sauerkraut. You have to support a healthy gut microbiome. It's not just about, you know, when you think about taking probiotic supplements and thinking that's enough for healthy gut microbiome without changing diet and lifestyle and still, you know, eating at McDonald's every day and not sleeping well, you know, it's like thinking that you can throw those probiotics onto the ground like, like Jack's magic beans, and all of a sudden you're going to have a magic bean sock crop up. It's. That's not reality, right? That, that was. That's a fairy tale, right? And so we want to live in reality and make sure. Okay, yes, we, we want to sprinkle in, you know, that little magic dust of probiotics, but then we feed them the right things, right? We have an environment that nourishes them. So now, in terms of your question, all right, how do we know when they're necessary? Right? That as a parent, right. I mean, if I weren't a holistic pediatrician, I mean, that'd be one of the things. How do you know? And you don't want to question the doctor and like, what if I don't give the antibiotics? What, you know, is that, am I going to harm my child? So all of Those things I totally get.

Or if parents have differing views, right?

Oh, 100. Yeah. So one of the, one of the things that I would do though. Okay. Is in a very, you know, you want to be a team with your doctor. And sometimes it's the urgent care doctor, right? Or the ER doctor that's writing the prescription. Right? But you know, being an advocate for your kid, but in a collegial way, you ask the doctor, hey, doc, is this prescription really necessary? I mean, just ask the question, right? Because some studies have shown, actually this one study showed that, you know, doctors who believe that the patient want a prescription are way more likely to write that prescription even if they know that it's unlikely to be needed or helpful, right? And so they might just assume, oh, this, you know, family comes in, kids holding their ear, crying, and they, okay, they really want the presence prescription. Maybe not, right? And so just ask the question because then the doc may go, oh, okay, yeah, you know what? I think it's okay to wait and see, you know, a couple of days here, hold on to it. Right? Just in case. And then, you know, and then in that meantime, I would encourage you, and I have resources on my webpage. But you know, really, there are so many good in evidence based based tools using homeopathy or essential oils or herbs to help your kids recover from viral infections and even many bacterial infections, you know, like, like ear infections, which even if bacterial will often resolve on their own. So, and then the, the other questions that you might want to ask your doc is, all right, if I don't, you know, take these antibiotics, right, or give my child these antibiotics, like, what could happen, right? Tell me what the natural course of this illness could be, right? Ask if there are any alternatives to the antibiotics, which they may not know if they're conventional, but they may have some ideas. And then if an antibiotic is really necessary, then ask them, hey, what do I do to help support my child while they're taking these antibiotics? And again, they may not know, but they may have an idea, right? They may say, oh, take a probiotic. And I'm hearing more and more ER docs mention that, but usually only when asked because it's still not a conventional approach to say all kids who get antibiotics should have their microbiome recovered in some way, right? So that's really important. So now as listeners, you guys understand how important it is to preserve your child's gut microbiome. And so, you know, being able to ask the questions, right? Because sometimes we don't even know what Questions to ask. But now we have the questions and you could just say, you know, again, like I said in a nice way, just, hey, Doc, I'm just curious. Right? And it's out of that curiosity then that, I mean, and I'm not going to say that there are sometimes not such great interactions with physicians, but there can be really great ones. And you know, and most pediatricians really, you know, went into this to partner with parents. Parents. And so, you know, giving them the opportunity and if they don't have all the answers, just saying, okay, you know, I'd like to just wait and do some research. If, if this antibiotic is not, if you're not saying this is 100% necessary right now, if I have some time to wait and see, then, you know, I'd like to just go and do some research on what other things I might be able to do to support my child.

Gosh, this is so important. I mean, we're talking about, if you're listening to this right now, and number one, if you're finding it helpful, be sure to share this with somebody who needs to hear this, especially if they've got young kids and you know, they're having the conversations we're talking about now, share this episode with them because they need to hear it. And the other thing would be, Dr. Elisa, I know we've talked about how important gut health is for our kids, health in general, for supporting their bones. I know mental health is also an area of passion for you as well. So maybe could we talk about the connection, but between our child's gut health and their mental health?

Yeah. Well, I mentioned that there have been several studies looking at antibiotic use and the increased risk in most mental health disorders. Concerns in our children. And the more, the higher the number of antibiotic courses, the higher the risk. This holds true for our teenagers too. I haven't looked at many of the adults studies, but I'm going to guess that holds true for adults too. You know, all because of the shift in the microbiome and the really critical gut brain connection now, you know, what does the gut microbiome have to do with how good you're feeling? Now? The gut is called the second brain. And really it should probably be flipped. It should probably be called the first brain. There is a communications superhighway called the vagus nerve that travels from your gut to your brain. And the information goes, you know, it's literally, it's like two, two way street, right? The vast majority, like 80% of the communication goes from your Gut to your brain, right? 80%, right. Your brain is informing your gut. And there have been studies looking at gut microbiome composition and how they can see differences in your baby, your toddler's gut microbiome can, can be correlated with their temperament, right? Their iq, right. If we see all these things that we think, oh, that's, that's just who they are, well, maybe it's because of some of the shifts in the gut microbiome that happened early on or maybe if, you know, if me as a mom didn't have a healthy gut or vaginal microbiome when my baby was born. So, so and the other thing too with the gut is that the vast majority of what we consider, quote, brain chemicals, right, Our neurotransmitters, they're actually made by our gut, our gut probiotics, right. Our microbiome. So, you know, 80 to 90% of all the serotonin in our body is made in our gut, right? So, so then if you think, okay, let's see all these factors that can disrupt your child's gut microbiome and you know, we know adolescent mental health is just, you know, in crisis right now. It was in crisis before the pandemic. Okay, let's be clear. It's not something new, right? But you know, since the pandemic now at least there are more eyes on it. You know, the media is paying more attention to it. Let's hope that that turns into action. But the rates of ER visits for suicide, the rates of homicide, accidental injuries, all of those are related in a way. Many of those have underlying, almost all have underlying mental health concerns associated with them. And for our youth, I mean, it's really, really gone up. Suicide. For our 15 to 24 year olds, it's the second leading cause of death, right? First is unintentional injury, third is homicide. That's like in the thousands and thousands and thousands of range every year. And then we have, way down here is, are things like influenza, right? I mean, so, you know, let's really think where, where we're putting our public health priorities. And so we think, okay, for our youth, I mean, how many antibiotics or antacid medications, all the ultra processed foods, the lifestyle, not getting enough sleep and not moving your body actually can affect the gut microbiome, right? And so all of those, I mean, it's like, wow, our kids gut microbiomes don't really have much of a chance unless we know how to really help support a healthy gut microbiome and make it a precise priority. And that's why, you know, we can sit there and think, oh, there's all these things. Yet one of the best things is we can change all those things. Right? You can't change if your kid had antibiotics in the past, Right. But you can start from now changing and shaping their gut microbiome, educating your kids about how their gut health is related to everything else and you know, what kind of diet and lifestyle factors are going to be important for them to carry on with them, you know, as they get older, as they leave your house to college. Right. As they're grown ups and as they kind of pay it forward to their kids. Right. Your future grandkids. Right. I mean, it all, you know, it all makes a difference. And you know, there, and I'm not going to say it's as simplistic, you know, this mental health crisis as fixing the gut, but if we really prioritize our gut microbiomes, that would go a long way, a long way in really ending much of the sort of the increasing numbers and the kind of disheartening numbers of young adults who are being diagnosed with these chronic diseases. That used to be just something that, oh, that's what old people get, right? Well, I mean, 40s and 50s might sound old to our kids, but that's not that old or 30s even, right?

This is, this has been so informative. I've loved this conversation. I mean, and just in summary, like for everybody listening, we touched on quite a few things. We touched on how important exercise is in movement from such a young age and how we need to be the ones to set the example. You are the shepherd for those in your life. Like you need to set the example for them making better choices from a diet, nutrition perspective. Perspective. It doesn't have to be super strict and not fun. You can find recipes together that are healthy and get some buy in, like Dr. Elisa was saying, to get some buy in, get them involved in the process so that it's fun. Gut health is so important for our kids health, for their mental health, for their bone health. And you know, it's something that we need to place focus on and we have got a tremendous resource with Dr. Lisa's song as well. So Dr. Lisa, can you share? Share? Where can people find you and your resources? And we will link to those in the show. Notes please.

Yeah, so the best places to find me are on my online blog site, educational site, it's HealthyKids Happy Kids.com and then on Instagram, which is HealthyKids Happy Kids. Those are the best ways to find me and really get some of my resources. And I share a lot of my not just educational information, but for me, it's really important as a mom that everything I say is practical, actionable, and also hopeful. Right? I mean, it does no good to just spat out these numbers that really are kind of doom and gloom, right? We have to, we have to be able to take action. And you can with the, with the right knowledge.

I love that message of empowerment. So thank you all for, or thank you for sharing that. Dr. Lisa and then for everybody listening, you can find all the resources, show notes, everything mentioned here today over bonecoach.com drelisong Healthy kids, happy kids, strong bones. I want to thank you again. We'll see you in the next episode. Hope you found this episode of the Bone Coach show helpful. You can find all the resources, show notes, everything mentioned over@bonecoach.com if you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, be sure to share it with someone you love. A friend, family member, even a group of people. And also be sure to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode that can help you improve your bones, your health and your future. One last reminder. If you haven't done so already, head over to bonecoach.com for more great resources to help you get on the path to stronger bones and an active future. I'm your bone coach, Kevin Ellis. I'll see you in the next episode.