An Integrative Pediatrician’s Guide to Whole Child Resilience

Hi, it's Kate Brownfield with ADHDkidscanthrive.com thank you for listening and thank you for all your support. Today My guest is Dr. Elisa Song. She is a Stanford NYU, UCSF trained integrative pediatrician, pediatric functional medicine expert, and mom to two thriving children. And she is on a mission to revolutionize the future of Children's Health. Dr. Song is the best selling author of her new book, Healthy Kids, Happy Kids An Integrative Pediatrician's Guide to Whole Child Resilience. In her integrative pediatric practice, she has helped thousands of kids get to the root cause of their health concerns and empowered parents to help their children thrive. I got a sneak peek at her book and it's full of all the guidance and advice she would give you as if you met with her one on one. It's all in there. It's amazing. So check out our book and in the meantime, enjoy a conversation today where we talk about children's health, especially for those kids who are neurodivergent. Hi, Dr. Song, thank you for being here. I'm looking forward to talking to you today. You are joining? Yeah. You're joining me today because you have a new book out called Healthy Kids, Happy Kids, An Integrative Pediatrician's Guide to Whole Child Resilience. Pretty awesome. Yeah. Yay.

Thank you. We were just talking offline and I'm so, I'm honored that you were one of the first parents to be able to read the book and so glad to be here.

Yes, I have. I got the pleasure of having a little preview of it and the book is really thorough. And I think any parent, especially if they're neurodiverse, but even if they're not neurodiverse, this is for any parent who has children who are trying to get their kids through life in a very healthy way.

Thank you. You know, that was my goal.

Yes. And brain and body and soul all go together, but for sure, the, the body and the brain work together. And so as parents, it's incredibly important to be able to make both of those systems work together because they're really not separate. Even though I think our culture tries to teach us, tries to show us that they're separate, but they're not. Okay, so let's start with, just give us a little background about the book and why you wrote it.

So, you know, I've been an integrative pediatrician, you know, pediatric functional medicine doc for over 20 years now. I mean, I started the practice just around, I mean, in 2004 and all the training beforehand. And you know, once I, once my eyes were open to this thing called root cause medicine and food as medicine, it just blew my mind the possibilities that we could have to support our kids, whether they have any particular diagnoses or whether maybe some things are just a little bit off. And parents like, what's going on? How can I help my kids thrive? It, it's such an amazing way to get to the heart of what's going on with kids and be to use food as medicine, lifestyle as medicine, supplements, herbs and pharmaceuticals when they're necessary to really have the most comprehensive and personalized picture for kids. And so knowing that there are, and there is an increasing number of pediatricians and family practice doctors who are training this way, but not enough yet. So I wanted, I wanted parents to be able to access this information now. I mean before, you know, before, I mean it's never too late. But you know, before things start to get out of hand or maybe things are out of hand, like what do I do? You know, conventional medicine isn't giving me all the answers. So, you know, and that's where, you know, for, for my approach, it's not, it's not an either or. I mean, you know, I use, I use conventional medications, but we can also understand that some of these medications have unintended consequences. And also when we can support a child to thrive, you know, with food, with diet, with lifestyle, with all the things, then sometimes medications aren't necessary or when medications are necessary, we might be able to use a lower dose or at least combat the side effects really effectively. So, you know, I wouldn't practice any other way. It's just, it's been amazing for kids with eczema or kids with asthma or autoimmunity or ADHD and you know, all sorts of neurodiverse conditions.

Absolutely. Okay, so tell us how the brain and the gut are connected. Like how do they, when they're working well, how does that help us? And then when they're not working together, how does that work against, in this case, a child's health?

Yeah. So, you know, some listeners may have heard the, the gut referred to as the second brain. But really and truly we, it's almost. Well, I would say from, from a, you know, integrated pediatric standpoint, it's really the reverse. I mean the, the, our guts are really the brains of our body and our brain. So you know, there's this two way information superhighway between the gut and the brain called the vagus nerve. And the communication goes both ways. What goes on in the gut informs your brain literally how to feel, how to think, you know, can inform behaviors and, and temperament and even iq. And how we think and feel affects our gut microbiome. Now, what many people don't realize, though, is about 80 to 90% of the communication actually occurs from the gut to the brain. And our gut's nervous system can actually live without our brain. Our brain can't live without our gut. So it just shows you what is the foundation here. I mean, who and what are we trying to nourish? And you know, in our gut we have these trillions and trillions of microscopic organisms from bacteria like probiotic bacteria that are good for us. Also not such good, maybe dysbiotic bacteria. And there's also a whole host of yeast and viruses, even parasites that can be normal in our gut. It just depends on the balance and the bacterial makeup. So another fascinating fact that I get a lot of ahas or like, oh my gosh, from, from kids and parents is when they realize that the majority of many of our neurotransmitters, our br quote brain chemicals, are actually made in our gut by our gut microbiome. So like 80 to 90% of all the serotonin in our body is made by our gut, which is our relax, calm, help with sleep, manage stress neurotransmitter. And then at least 50% of our dopamine is made by our gut. And dopamine, as many are familiar with, is implicated in attention and focus and staying motivated and staying on task. And a whole host of other other neurotransmitters like GABA or acetylcholine that some people may have heard of. So when we aren't nurturing and nourishing our children's gut microbiomes, we're missing a really key piece in how to support their brains, how to support their, their anxieties, how to support their mood, their mental health, their attention and focus. And so, you know, this is, this is a large part of the book is how do we take that, you know, microbiome centric approach to, to kids health, kids men health, kids, immune health, and really help kids and parents understand how to nourish and nurture their microbiome so that they can be their healthiest, happiest selves.

I thought in the book too, it was really interesting. You define what your gut is, which, it's a much broader, it's a much more part of the body than I realized. Yeah, like, you think of your gut like Your tummy area. Right, but it's right bands much more than that.

Well, our gut, you know, is really. When we think of our gut, we have to think of, you know, we are one long hollow tube, essentially, right? I mean, we're so from our mouth all the way down to the bottom where the poop comes out. You know, that's the entire GI tract, right? Our gut or gastrointestinal tract, and it's really. It's the largest interface with our outside world. So that's the other really important concept. A lot of people think that our gut is on the ins, that our skin is what's exposed to the outside world. And, you know, some may have heard that our skin is considered our largest organ. Well, our gut is our largest interface with. With pretty much everything we encounter. I mean, think about it. You know, the food we eat, the environmental toxins we may be breathing in, the medications we're ingesting, you know, all. All. All sorts of pathogens. You know, viruses, bacteria, whatever we're encountering from our outside world, they have to pass through our gut, and gut decides what to do with that information. Is this food something that, you know, I want inside my body that's healthy, that I should be digesting and absorbing? Or if my gut isn't so healthy, is this food something that. That I'm gonna allow in and create an immune response or create a nervous system response? And same thing with infections. And, you know, all sorts of. You know, that's why a lot of most infections, in fact, will cause some amount of gut imbalance, even if they're not tummy infections. And so when we think about how we are interacting with the world, we have to think about how our microbes are interacting with the world, because our microbes in our gut tell our brain how to respond and feel, you know, to that. To that input. And also our immune system, we can't forget our immune system, because 70 to 80% of our immune system lies in our gut. And how many of our kids with ADHD also have eczema or allergies or hay fever? And so, you know, we know that that is. That's a common, you know, comorbidity, right?

That then goes together.

It goes hand in hand. And also, even for adhd, it's not like kids with ADD have. Have that alone necessarily. A lot of kids have comorbid or associated anxiety or other, you know, mental health diagnoses too. And so, you know, it's all interconnected. And the common thread is our gut microbiome. I mean, if we can help support a healthy gut microbiome, we can help a lot of the other. You know, we can have sort of this trickle effect on multiple, multiple systems in your children's body.

So is the skin an indicator of what's going on inside or is it an indicator of what's like you're being exposed to outside in the world.

So, you know, so I would say both. You know, your gut is actually really one of the most important, I guess places in our organs in our body that determine what's called tolerance, you know, immune tolerance to certain, you know, environmental or food allergens. And so when our gut is not in the healthiest state, it can start reacting and having these abnormal or sort of allergic type reactions to different foods or environmental exposures. And oftentimes that will translate into this phenomenon on the skin like eczema or sometimes it's just itching, you know, without even any clear rashes. So, so then, you know, that sort of, that's sort of from the inside out. And then a lot of kids with eczema also tend to have a disrupted skin microbiome. So you know, what's really interesting is all of our, you know, we're finding out that, that so many different areas in our body have its own microbiome, their own microscopic collection and ecosystem of, of microbes, you know, bacteria, yeast, viruses, whatever it is. And when they' healthy balance, those microorganisms keep us healthy. It's this very symbiotic relationship. And so you know what, it's kind of, I tell, I tell kids, it's kind of like nemo clownfish and their anemone, they have to live together, right? They support each other. You know, one is not, not good without the other. And so, you know, when, when our skin microbiome is disrupted with say bacteria like staph and strep, you know, kids with eczema can get that itchy kind of, you know, infected impetigo. You know, they're like, oh, you get that CR skin. And oftentimes when I look at kids guts and do some testing on them, I can see that a lot of that staph and that strep is likely, you know, emanating from, you know, from those bacteria in their gut microbiome. So, you know, can all be connected.

You write a lot about, in the book about poop and what that can tell us about. So do a lot of neurodiverse because this is the ADHD Kids can Thrive podcast. Yeah, Do a lot of kids who are neurodiverse have symptoms in with their poop.

So I will say yes and no. Okay. Because you know, when I, when I, you know, work with kids who are neurodiverse, I always look at their gut because, you know, I guess, you know, I never want to say always, but in this case it really is truly almost always. There's going to be an imbalance in their gut and in their microbiome because of the fact that most of our neurotransmitters are, are produced by our microbiome. So we have to look at, you know, what's going on, how do we support our kids microbiome so that we can support their gut brain connection. And in fact, there are a particular set of probiotics that are called psychobiotics because they specifically have psychological benefit. They specifically produce and optimize neurotransmitter levels like serotonin and dopamine. And you know, oftentimes I will give kids who are having signs of neurotransmitter imbalance those probiotics. You know, we're finding so much more about what different probiotics strains actually do for us. And so, but, but a large, you know, number of kids with ADHD actually have outright poop issues. Now some may have totally normal, beautiful looking brown logs, you know, you know, Bristol, you know, four on the chart looking poops and, and I see still want to look at their gut microbiome. Right. But many kids will have, I would say it tends more towards the constipation side. But then a lot of kids do tend to have, will have mushy poops that are just not, they're messy and they're mushy and you know, that's not, that's not quote normal either. And when they're toddlers, maybe their pediatrician said, oh, it's toddler diarrhea, it's normal, it'll pass. But then it doesn't really. And these kids grow up thinking that these mushy poops are, are normal. Or on the flip side, you know, once, once we stop, you know, needing to wipe our kids and they're out of diapers, we lose track. And I've had kids come in and all of a sudden it's like, you know, we're checking, we're doing a stool analysis and parents realize, oh my gosh, they're pooping like once every five or six days. And that's not normal either because we know that the microbiomes of constipated people doesn't look as healthy as the microbiomes of, you know, regular poopers.

And is that because the gut is clogging things up? Right?

Yeah, clogging things up, holding onto things. If you think. And, you know, if you think about the other effects that that has, you know, your. Your poop is. It's. It's your garbage hatch, right? It's your garbage disposal. And so, you know, what would happen if you're, you know, if you're filling up the trash in your kitchen and you never took it out, Right. I mean, I mean, that cabinet, and you open it up and it just would kind of permeate everything. And same thing. All the. All of the toxins that your liver and has tried so hard to process and metabolize and, and, you know, push out into your poop and excrete because it's something your body doesn't want if that's allowed to sit in your colon for days. Right. Eventually some of that stuff gets reabsorbed back into our system, and that's the last thing we want. We don't want that garbage going back in to our body when. When it's tried so hard to get it out. And so regular flushing of poops, really, you know, it's. It's the garbage collector coming and taking out all the trash so that all that trash doesn't build back up and make us feel kind of yucky. I mean, you know, that many people have the experience if they're really, you know, paying attention when they're constipated, they kind of. I mean, they'll say, I feel kind of, quote, toxic. You just don't feel as good because all of those compounds that are being reabsorbed are affecting your body and your brain and your immune system, making you probably maybe moody. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, and, you know, it's also, you know, it's sort of. It's like a chicken and egg thing too, because, you know, of course, when. When we have anxiety or stress, when we're in that kind of fight or flight, you know, sympathetic nervous system mode, all our muscles kind of, they. They tense up. Right? And we're kind of. Our pupils dilate, and we're ready to. We're ready to run or fight. I mean, that's, you know, or freeze. Right? And so that's not conducive to pooping either. Right. You know, even, Even. Even our, you know, anal sphincter muscles, that's supposed to relax and let us poop, everything will get tightened up. And so, so we Also have to be able to address that piece of it, too. That's a. I would say that's probably the most common underlying reason for constipation in kids and adults is this go, go, go stress mode, so that your body doesn't get that safety signal that, hey, it's okay to calm down, digest your food, let your GI tract work, and actually poop, you know, so, you know, it's all. It's really all connected.

All right, so let's switch gears and talk about how we help our kids be healthy and what we can do as parents to help them. So as an integrative pediatrician, what are some things that parents can do now and that they'll learn in your book to help support their kids? Help long term.

So one of the things that. That I really focus on in the book is how to make things really doable and achievable for kids and families. And. And we do that by educating. I mean, you have to educate and empower kids. And, you know, I'm a mom of two, and it's. It's so easy to slip back into the I told you so or because I said so or the nagging mode, right? Like, it's just not good for your health. You know, don't do it because it's poison for your brain. But that doesn't really work. I mean, I. I get the same eye rolls that everyone else gets or that blank stare where they're like, huh, huh, Right? And, you know, and you're like, you didn't hear a single word I said, Right? And so, you know, when we help kids to tie in their goals with, you know, what they're. What they're eating and how they're living, how they're managing their lives, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't kick in right away necessarily, but it lays the foundations for them to understand and be able to tune in at some point and realize, oh, when I ate this food, wow. I actually was much more on at my soccer game, and I could run faster down the field and pay attention to all of my friends who are around me or when I ate this food, wow, I was so spacey, I couldn't focus on my test at all. And, you know, I just. It's like I had never studied. So, you know, or my school, the lines for my school play or whatever it is. So we're. It's all, you know, in the. In the hope of helping kids connect the dots with their actions and, you know, how they're feeling or how their immune system is doing. And so when we do that. But it's a, it's a journey, guys. Right. As a parent, you know, they may still choose and I'm going to say they likely will choose things that, you know, aren't that great for their bodies or their brains in the moment. And they know too, Right. But that, that preteen teenage brain where the prefrontal cortex, rational decision making part of the brain is still not fully kicked in. Yeah, they're going to make some choices that you kind of cringe at sometimes, but they have that foundation so that when they're off on their own, you know, buying their own food, you know, when they're grown ups and you know, deciding what to cook, you know, for their own kids, they, they have those foundations and so that's what we want. So I would say that one of the, the number one things that we can do as parents to set our kids up for, you know, short and long term success. Right. Our goal is to, you know, long term help our kids make these decisions is helping them understand how to choose and read food labels in a microbiome friendly way. I mean, I teach kids how to read food labels like a gut hero. And this is, you know, a big part of my book because, you know, we all, I mean, not all of us, but I'm going to say virtually every listener, you know, on this podcast and my patients, we buy packaged foods and packaged products like, like marinara sauce or, you know, I don't know, tortilla chips to go with our chili.

Everything is packaged.

Everything, right?

Yeah.

And, and there are some packaged foods that are, are great made with, you know, they are made with whole foods. They are minimally processed and there are foods that are ultra processed. And we know that ultra processed foods are correlated with a whole host of pediatric conditions like ADHD and anxiety and on and on to adult conditions like, you know, metabolic syndrome, heart disease, which unfortunately metabolic syndrome and diabetes are becoming more and more common in children and even on the other end of the age spectrum, cognitive decline and dementia. And what, what some studies have found is a steady diet of ultra processed foods can actually start to shrink parts of your brain in children and cause less of those. I mean, people have all seen brain models, right? They have all these folds in the brain that are good. We want a lot of folds. So it actually starts to reduce some of that folding in your child's brain. And so on the, on the converse side, eating a steady diet of, you know, less processed, you know, real minimally processed foods can improve brain folding and improve brain function. And so, you know, it's, it's really learning how to kind of. Of assess that out, be, be really good detectives because the front of the label, a lot of foods. And I, I've did this too before. I started reading every single label on the back before I bought it. I unwittingly, you know, even as an integrated pediatrician would buy foods that. Now I look back and realize, wow, I was totally tricked by the front of the label saying, oh, it's healthy. Oh, you know, it's made with real fruit and you know, oh, it's whole grain. So we have to savvy because what we and our children need to understand is the packaged food industry. They hire and spend, I don't even know how much, I'm going to say millions or billions of dollars on psych on, on, you know, advertising, labeling, psychology, to know exactly what's going to draw in, you know, a kid or grownup to that package. I mean, they know exactly, you know, what, what's going to make us kind of light up and get our dopamine center saying O. And then behind the scenes in the factories are these food scientists that, you know, spend their entire time researching how to make foods have a mouth feel, you know, a certain flavor, texture, aroma that makes it even more addictive. So, you know, for kids who, who say, well, I want to be. Make my own decisions, I want to be independent and be in charge of myself. Well, then I have them think about the fact that, you know, when they're kind of reaching for the, that bag of Takis or that, you know, that Gatorade or whatever it is, it's, it's really, you know, the food scientists that have kind of tricked your brain into saying, I want that, I need that. So they're, they're not fully in control. You know, when they're addicted to these foods, it's not really their, their own decision making that's going on. So, so recognizing that because we are really being, you know, I think that real, you know, I think the two things that could make the biggest impact on our children's health if they learned how to be savvy food label readers and if they learned how to be able to regulate their brains, right, you know, have the.

Have brains, but it's really hard to regulate their brains, especially if they have adhd, which is why, which is, you know, parents have to be learn. I think a lot of the savviness around this. It's the challenge you know, for the parent and just to make your home as clean as possible with food. Because the culture, I mean, I talk. The culture, right. Is really still kind of under this daze that like we can just eat whatever we want and it's not going to impact our health.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, when you go to like the soccer games or whatever, right? It's all the like ultra processed food and stuff too consume after the game. So it's like, how do you, you have to balance that, right, as a parent?

Yeah, it's totally about balance. And that's the thing. If you can make your, your home more of a health bubble and it's. And, and you know, we want to get away from saying never ever. But again, helping kids connect the dots and recognizing how they feel after certain foods and, you know, how they behave after certain, you know, especially those, I mean, listeners know. I mean, the artificial DYes, I mean, one in three kids with ADHD will have benefits in mood behaviors simply by removing artificial dyes in their diets. I mean, one in three, that's. That's huge, right? And, and this is even for kids who aren't diagnosed with adhd. It's for kids who are struggling with attention and focus and maybe don't. They're not, you know, they're, they're still functioning. So, you know, they're, they're not considered to have a diagnosis, but they're still struggling. But then, you know, if we, the, the idea is, I mean, really, we have to live in this world, right? And so understanding, helping kids understand, it's not about never ever. I mean, my kids will go downtown and get a boba tea with their friends, you know, but it, it really, it's what we do in the balance, for the most part, that really makes a difference. So, you know, when they have that boba tea and I can tell, you know, I mean, my son comes home and he's like, you know, this kind of wired. Wired, you know, a little, A little, you know, more goofy, more sassy, more whatever. Right. And so he recognizes that and yet he still wants it, right? He's 12. And so, you know, and so, you know, we, we just talk about the fact that it's not, it really shouldn't. It's not an everyday thing. It's something that you can do with your friends and you understand the impact of it. And we create this bubble so that your brain and your gut microbiome, your immune system, all of that can bounce right back. I mean, that's the whole point of Resilience is not that, you know, one, one, you know, frosted blue cupcake is gonna unravel everything that you've done as a parent to try to get your kids healthy, but you built the foundation. So that thing, yeah, they might have a setback for a day or two where they're just spacey and angry and whatever it is. Right. I mean, one kiddo who after the red Gatorade would just fly into rages after his baseball games and you know, and, and finally at a certain point, he, he was, had that connection that, you know, his prefrontal cortex was really starting to kick in and he recognized, yeah, I don't really wanna behave that way. Like, I don't really like that, you know, so I'm not gonna, I'm gonna choose something else to drink. But up until that point, you know, you know, he was able to bounce back, but because it wasn't an everyday thing. And the thing with, with kids and adults, with adults, we're finding that about 50% of all added sugars in, in adults diets are coming now from these sugar sweetened beverages. So think Frappuccinos and bobas and all of that. For some kids, I'm go. It's way more than that because I have some teenagers who, you know, a Frappuccino or the, you know, the secret unicorn flavored drink on the, on the secret menu. It's not just a once a week or every other week. It's literally almost an everyday thing. Right. And so we just have to think, what are we doing on the whole. For the most part.

Yeah. That's a lot of sugar. Okay, so, Elise, I want to talk to you about getting to your book too, because this is like gold for parents, is that you really just get into giving parents direction when your child has like a fever, an ear infection, cold and flu, ways that parents can help with those symptoms in a more natural way so they don't have to go to the doctor all the time. Right. And be running to the doctor all the time for antibiotics or care.

Yeah. And.

And the treatments that you share in this book work and you give it all there, which is so great. So can you just give us like a little summary about, like, how, how these natural remedies actually really work and why parents should use them.

Yeah. So. And, and I will, you know, kind of just pause for a second and say the whole point isn't to never ever, you know, see the doctor or not ever use medications because they're needed. But we do understand, I mean, you know, for, let's take antibiotics, right. In some studies, almost 70% of antibiotics prescribed for children are inappropriately prescribed for things like viral infections or, you know, just stronger than they need to be. We also know that early and more frequent use of antibiotics does increase the risk of children having adhd. It increases the risk for children having eczema and asthma. So again, that kind of early life gut microbiome disruption, you know, can, can pave the way for the gut brain connection, gut immune system connection of being sort of dysregulated. So, you know, what about antibiotics? Well, you know, I just want to back up and just make sure that people understand, you know, antibiotics, yes, they can be life saving and they kill bacteria, but they're not, not picky about which bacteria they kill. And what are all those beneficial probiotics, psychobiotics in our, in our gut microbiome. They're bacteria, right? And so, you know, when we take an antibiotic for an ear infection, sure, you might kill some of the bacteria that's behind your child's middle eardrum and help kill the, the, the bacteria causing the ear infection. But it can wipe out a lot or almost all of the beneficial bacteria in your child's gut microbiome. And unless we know how to restore your child's microbiome, it can take, I mean, at least one to two months to kind of, you know, get that microbiome back, replenishing, kind of growing the garden again in your gut. Some species don't come back for four or five years, so it could take a really long time. And in the meantime, what's really also we need to recognize too is that some of these antibiotics, they actually have a stronger preference to kill the beneficial microbes in our gut. So they'll kill the good stuff and they'll leave some the bad stuff, like Clostridia difficile. Right. C. Diff, which can then grow. And some people have heard of C. Diff infections after antibiotics. And so what we want to know from an integrative pediatric standpoint when your kids are sick is when are antibiotics really necessary? And this when we use an integrative approach by incorporating diet and lifestyle, herbs, supplements, homeopathy, essential oils, I teach parents acupressure points. We can reduce the need for unnecessary antibiotics and necessary antibiotics. I mean, even for ear infections, these natural treatments can work so well. And so what I do in the book, you know, because not everyone has an integrated pediatrician, especially in the middle of the night when your kids are, I mean, that's when they all get a fever, right? Yeah. So, you know, I give exactly what I recommend, you know, for my patients, what I do for my own kids in that moment. And then I also give clear guidelines on, okay, here's the signs that you should call your doctor. Here are the signs that you might need antibiotics. And I have a list of six questions that, you know, every parent should discuss with their pediatrician before they start antibiotics. And then also, if antibiotics are necessary, I give a whole protocol, an easy to follow protocol on how to restore your child's gut microbiome, because that's really key. And, you know, if you're thinking here, thinking and listening, oh my gosh, my kid had like five antibiotics for ear infections by the time were two. Is that why they have adhd or is that why they have anxiety or asthma or eczema? It's, it's only a part of the picture, right? And you can't go back and change that. So we want to get rid of the mom guilt, you know, and the dad guilt and just say, okay, that is what it is. I was doing the best at the time with the knowledge that I had. Now I know, let's work on the microbiome. And even if the antibiotics were years ago, we can still help support and replenish your child's gut microbiome, you know, with the steps that I have inside the book. So, so that's my goal, is for parents to just really also feel empowered and, and understand they can kind of, you know, put the pieces together and, and see their kid's story maybe from a different light, you know, from, from, you know, all the different things that have come together to present as, you know, ADHD or whatever it is. And then how do we, how do we kind of unwrap that and, and reverse and heal some of that? And even for adhd, I have a section on ADHD with some that I, you know, recommend and how to support. We always support the gut microbiome. But one thing I find fascinating is, is saffron extract. You know, saffron extract, you can, you know, it's a little beautiful herb that you, you find in paella, you know. Right. Or some Indian curries. But saffron extract at a dose of about 30 milligrams for, you know, for kids and teens has been found to work really well for ADHD symptoms, you know, really on the par, maybe even better than, than Ritalin without the side effects that often, you know, we worry about as parents with the effect on their appetite and the rebound effect and, you know, sometimes ticks that come along with it.

That's great advice. Okay, so thinking of like ADHD kids, if your child has adhd, do you recommend that they have a supplement protocol? So I feel like parents sometimes, like, would want to try supplements before they try stimulant or other medications or can you add the supplements in so you need less pharmaceutical medicine?

So it, it can be at whatever stage, you know, you're at. You know, for the parents who come to me, a lot of parents, that is their goal. You know, they're kind of at the point where, you know, the teachers have said we should consider meds. I'd rather try other things first. Are there other things we can do? Some kids come and they're on meds and we know that, you know, medication, you know, I mean, 50% of the time, you know, let's say if your kid has anxiety, only about 50% of the time is, is medication really going to help give relief? So maybe they're finding a little bit of relief, but there's still a lot of mental health concerns left. And so what do we do? And, and so can you add on? And so, you know, for the mass, vast majority of the things that I recommend, they can be also taken concurrently with any medications that your child is already on. And you know, of course you always want to check with your doc, but, but I often will kind of, you know, too, if your kids are on supplement on medications, you know, let's try adding on these supplements. And sometimes we're able to either lower the dose of the medications or wean off or if your child isn't on medications yet, then that's a great opportunity. Let's clean up their gut. The foundational supplements that I will try. And I, and I, you know, I know that some listeners are like, I don't even know how to do this because I don't have a pediatrician who's going to help help me with dosages. So I do give suggested dosages by age in the book, and they're just suggested. I always want you to, you know, know that child is unique. But, you know, the, the supplements that have been found to be effective in the literature for kids with adhd, there are many and you don't have to try them all. But, you know, there, there are several that have been found to be useful. So I mentioned saffron, excuse me, magnesium, vitamin B6 and omega 3s in combination. The fish oils have been found to be helpful. There's an amino acid that's very calming. That was called liquid L theanine, which was found to be very helpful, especially for boys with ADHD and. And supporting restorative sleep. And so, you know, that can be really helpful. You can find theanine in green tea. So if your kids, you know, don't mind the flavor of green tea, you can make iced decaf green tea. And I mean, of course, some kids with ADHD will benefit with. From a little caffeine, but sipping green tea throughout the day, you can mix it with a splash of juice or sweeten it with honey and have them sip it. They'll get. They'll get their load of theanine that, you know, matcha tea, black tea, all of those have theanine in it. And then another one of my favorite favorite supplements is phosphatidylserine, which also was found to be helpful for kids with adhd. Phosphatidylserine. The reason I love that is because it's a compound. It's a phospholipid that's found in your brain cell membranes. It kind of stabilizes your brain cells, and it can reduce that extra cortisol, that fight or flight response. If you have kids that are really, you know, emotionally reactive or explosive or super impulsive and fight or flight anxious, it really helps to bring that down. So I do try to, you know, I don't just throw the kitchen sink at kids, you know, with. With ADHD or any other health concern. I try to look at the literature to see what do we know can be effective, try to match it with some of the symptoms we're trying to address for your child. And then also, you know, just in my clinical experience, I found that certain things can be really effective. And so, you know, we try to personalize it more. But again, I mean, it's all. It's in the book there for you guys to try if you don't have that guide. And, you know, just as a, you know, just a short story, I have a friend who is in the Midwest. And, you know, there through the pandemic, there were times of lots of medication shortages. Shortages, right. Including Concerta. And so, you know, her. Her son, they just couldn't get it anywhere, you know. And so, you know, she. She texted and said, is there anything I can do in the meantime while we're waiting? And I said, why don't you try Saffron? Because I just read another, you know, article on Saffron. And I said, just try Saffron. You know, 30 milligrams and she texted later and said it was a game changer. You're kidding. Yes. Yes. And so. And he's not on concerta. I mean, he's. He's doing really, really well because saffron, not just for adhd, but it's an herb that' used, you know, more traditionally for. For mood lifting the mood, you know, helping anxiety or depression, which we know. You know, you know, for kids who are neurodiverse, I always wonder, is the attention and focus, is that driven more by the anxiety that they're feeling or, you know, is it the other way around? Is it. Is there inability to focus and concentrate causing so much anxiety? And it's probably both. Right. So if we can. And of course, adhd, it doesn't. I mean, sometimes can worsen anxiety. I mean, not concerned with stimulant meds can sometimes.

Yes. Can make an. Right. Anxiety worse. Right.

So if you have a supplement that can address both components, I mean, why not, you know, even better. And, and like I said, that saffron can actually be used with. With the stimulant medications. You know, just checking. Sure. Making sure. With your. Your doc. But I don't see any downside, really, to. To considering it.

Okay. So, Dr. Song, are you going on the road to actually also. Also train the doctors so more doctors are able to talk to parents about.

You know, that is the goal.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

I mean, not me alone. You know, I. It's. It's. I am really. I'm so. I'm so just blessed and honored to have been asked to be the chair of pediatric education for a 4M, which is one of the largest, you know, functional medicine training, training programs for practitioners. And so, you know, we've had now two really successful pediatric practitioner symposiums, and they're really committed to bringing pediatric education to doctors who, you know, it's just. I mean, I was kind of feeling my way when I was doing this 20 years ago, and I wish I had this. So we are. That's the goal, to train more and more so that more docs are comfortable, you know, making recommendations, or even if they're not comfortable necessarily making recommendations and working with other practitioners, say, oh, okay, I've read this in the literature. I think this could be, you know, a safe and possibly effective thing to try.

Yeah, that's great. Because there's holes in treatment. Right. The standard treatment, cookie cutter is not 100% effective. So we're very thankful for your book. I can't recommend that enough path. And then if you are looking for help in your area, wherever you live, around the world, like what in the United States, what would you look for? If you were trying to find a pediatrician or a doctor who could work with children? Like, what are you looking for in their title or their expertise to maybe. Yeah, bring a little doctor Song into the, the meeting to figure out if there's some things that everybody can work on to help.

So they may not have any, any particular designation in their title, but if you, you know, if you look at their bios or, I mean, honestly, I would try to have a call with them. You know, a lot of docs will have really, you know, brief like 10 minute little meet and greets where you can just ask questions about their philosophies or backgrounds, how they address such and such, not to get, you know, medical advice at that particular meeting, but just to, so you can determine and, and, and the doc can determine are you guys going to be a good team together for your child? Right, that's, that's the goal. Right. And sometimes it's, you know, depending on where you are, you may not find a doc who is really well versed in a lot of these integrative treatments. And so sometimes it's really, you know, the, the next best thing is finding someone who's really open minded who, you know, will be open to you bringing in, you know, research papers or like showing them parts of my book. Hey, you know, this, this is, I read about Saffron and look, there's some citations, research papers here. What do you think about trying and is open to that conversation? Right? Because if you are looking for a little bit more of an out of the box integrative approach, if unfortunately, you know, there are going to be some, some physicians who, you know, don't really want to have anything more integrative in their practice. Yeah, I think that's really changing. I mean, I, you know, so many physicians now, they are, they are. I mean, you have to really have your eyes closed, you know, for the past five years to not, you know, have read something about the microbiome and the gut brain connection. And I mean, I would say virtually everyone has heard of probiotics, even though they might not necessarily understand, you know, why they're important, you know, the big why. So that's that. But you know, one thing you can do is go to the A4s or ifm, that's the Institute for Functional Medicine dot org websites, and there are practitioner databases, practitioner directories, I should say, where you could plug in your zip code and find docs who have trained through them in your area. And then you just call and ask. And it might not be a pediatrician. It might be a family practice doc or an internist who, you know is now starting to see kids because they're getting successes from a functional medicine standpoint. So it might be that you have your primary, primary care pediatrician and then you have a consultant who can, hopefully they can work together to come up with a really good plan for your child.

All right, Dr. Song, as we wrap up, do you have any other words of wisdom for parents as we end this power session?

You know, I just, it can feel like, like drinking from a fire hose sometimes. Right? So it's just, it's literally, it's taking it just one step at a time. I mean, just, you know, for parents listening and who've been on a journey already with their neurodiverse kids and ADHD journ, it's, I mean, it's a journey. Right. And there are going to be ups and downs. And, and I would say, you know, when it comes to changing, you know, how your family or your child might be eating and the choices they're making, we just, we, we really, you know, we take it literally like a baby step at a time. And sometimes it's not about getting in all of the, you know, tons of fruits and vegetables. If they're not eating fruits and vegetables right now, it's about switching out, like, trading Takis for, like, the Siete brand of chips. Right. It's making those swaps. So we're just, it's all about, like, choosing the lowest hanging fruit for you and your child, getting small successes so that you can keep moving forward. Eventually you'll, you'll look back behind and realize, oh, my gosh, I, I've actually climbed a mountain already.

Right, right.

But, but you have to just start really, really, you know, small steps and, and that's where, you know, it's, it's doable, but it's not necessarily going to happen overnight. So give yourself some grace and, and you'll get there.

Thank you for joining us.

Thank you.