Dr Brooke Show #401 Healthy Kids, Happy Kids with Dr. Elisa Song, MD

Welcome to the Dr. Brooke show, your place to get real. Talk about your hormones and the how to's that will help you put that info into action. I'm your host, Dr. Brooke Kalanick, a functional medicine physician and women's hormone expert. I am also a mother, wife, author, weightlifter, recovering perfectionist and like you, a woman trying to be more resilient in the face of stress and cultivate more joy. Together we'll explore hormones, health and happiness. And my hope is that with each episode we become a little bit better. Remember, this show is intended for educational purposes only. Please speak with your healthcare provider before implementing the information heard here. If you need more support, please visit betterbydrbrooke.com hello and welcome to the Dr. Brooke Show. I am Dr. Brooke and my guest today, I know you know her and love her. If you are A Mother, it's Dr. Alyssa Song and she is an integrative pediatrician. She is going to be here to talk about her new book, Healthy Kids, Happy Kids. So again, I think most of you know her. You probably know her almost as well as you know me. I literally do not have patients that are mothers that don't follow her on Instagram and she has been such just a source of comfort and information during such a scary time in the last several years. So we know her, we love her and we're going to talk all about her new book and her book we talk, you know, on the show we're going to talk a little bit about kind of foundations for health like your kids with gut, gut health and foods, what to eat, all that kind of stuff. And then we talk a little bit about there's another section of her book that's really about what to do when your kids are sick and how do we deal with the scary fevers and those sorts of things. So I feel like it's a good foundation book and then it's a good go to book in the moment when your kiddos are sick. This is a perfect time to mention one of the sponsors of this episode which is Needed. So if you are a mama in the hoping to become a mom conception, preconception, fertility treatments, fertility support into your pregnancy and into breastfeeding in the many years postpartum that you have needed has got you covered with optimal levels of nutrients that you need to keep mama healthy. While we're going to be talking about keeping the kiddos healthy in this episode and one of I love two things a lot about needed in addition to just kind of their general messaging which I feel like is so supportive of women and of moms. They have, again, optimal levels of nutrients. So we're not just hitting the bare minimum and we're not missing key nutrients like choline. You're going to get that all in your prenatal. So their prenatal is amazing. I always say it's the one I wish I would have had. 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So it smells good and it doesn't smell like vitamins and it can really, really help with the nausea. And I have patients that are no longer pregnant, no longer necessarily needing to stick the little smelly disc with the essential oils in their vitamins, but they still use it because vitamins, let's face it, stick still smell kind of gross. Like I totally get it. So you can definitely keep using those if you want to. You can even stick them in some of my vitamins if that's helpful to you. So in the link in the show notes, it's thisisneeded.com and you're gonna need to enter the code better every day at checkout. And that will save you 20 off. This episode is also sponsored by Element. If you have not tried it yet, there is now the carbonated sparkly version that comes in a can. So you can still get the stick packs if you just want to mix them with your own water. The sparkly ones are fun, I have to say. They've been kind of fun to put over ice and have. It is so, so crazy hot here at the time of the airing of this episode, we are going to hit 99 on Friday. So in just a couple of days. But obviously taking my element. But I'm enjoying having it in this different form. It is kind of. It's still delicious. I love the taste of all the elements, but having the sparkly one. So with any beverage order using the link in the show notes drinkelement.com better every you're going to get a free sample pack of some of these so you can just try some other flavors. And lastly, this episode is sponsored by organifi. And now if you are in the conception time especially, or certainly in postpartum, when you're kind of depleted, using something organifi is great. Now I use organifi every day and a lot of my patients, whether we're dealing with autoimmunity, exercise intolerance, getting sick frequently, traveling and not able to get all those servings of vegetables, then organifi is great. However, one of the things I always do when I'm working on fertility with a patient is we need to get antioxidants up, especially for the men too. So make sure that your partner has got lots of antioxidants on board in order to, you know, have healthy sperm. So we want to be thinking about kind of all angles of fertility and organifi is a great source of antioxidants. All, all of my, you know, patients are trying to conceive. We have whoever's providing the sperm on organifi as well. So regardless of what phase of life you're in, organifi is a great adjunct to your day. If you click the link in the show notes, you can get 20% off. And that's Organifi.com better everyday and. All right, let's get to my chat with Dr. Song.

All right, Dr. Song, thank you so much for being here. Welcome back to the show.

Oh, thank you so much. We were just saying how long it's been. It's so great to see you and chat with you today.

That was back when it was the Sarah and Dr. Brooke show. So that was really was a long time ago. And we were just saying before we were recording, like how much the world has changed and how much parenting has changed since we talked last. And I know your platform in particular, you kind of exploded during COVID Yeah.

I think, you know, that really was. It was such a scary time for us as parents. Right. And just not knowing where to look for information because frankly, there just wasn't a lot of information. And the only Information we were hearing was really scary. Right. And so, I mean, for me, having two kids who were at the time, I mean, 8 and 10, I just. I needed to do that, to dive into the research that was available and, you know, and write, to organize my thoughts. And so as I was doing that, I thought, let me just share that with parents, because if I'm confused and if I'm scared, I. I mean, how must it be just only relying on the news you're hearing to. To make your decisions.

Yeah. And, you know, going to our own pediatricians, I mean, if in the beginning you weren't even going to your pediatrician, but I think, like, it was. Yeah. Nobody knew anything, so you were really, like, this little. I felt like, beacon of hope for people that there was. There was more that we could do than just be scared. And I think it was funny, you know, I think back to when the whole thing started, and I think because we didn't know what our conventional options were, there was, like, all of a sudden, all this heat on natural medicine of, like, you know, elderberry, take this dose or that dose, or this is actually going to make it worse because we just didn't know anything. And I was like, this is such a funny time to be in that integrative or alternative medicine space, because I felt like there was a lot of pressure for us to come up with an answer. And then, of course, like, a lot of fear. And then it just, you know, I think it just kind of split and went into some weird dichotomy that we have now. So I think we're finally through the worst of all of that. But we're getting back to. I think parenting in general is still. We have a lot of questions about how to keep our kids healthy and. But I think, too, you know, I know myself, we've been sick in just a different way since then. I feel like we've been sick more frequently. And maybe that was from, you know, distancing and then going back in the world. Maybe that's like long covet kind of fallout. It's been kind of interesting, and I feel like, you know, a lot of the same questions we had are still lingering. So let's talk about your new book, because, well, it's your first book, right? Your first.

It is my first book. My first and maybe last. You never know.

Yeah, it is a lot.

Quite a process.

So healthy kids, happy kids. So we'll talk a little bit about, like, colds and flus and those kind of common symptoms. But I think, you know, as you say in your book, like, our kid, we know more than ever, and our kids seem like they're sicker than ever. So let's talk a little bit about your goal with putting all of this in one place for parents.

Yeah, well, my goal was to really, literally put the. The past 20 years of how I've been practicing into a book for families who, you know, we get calls, I mean, literally every day. You know, is there an integrative pediatrician or a functional medicine pediatrician like, you near me, or are you taking new patients? And, you know, I just. I. I'm a solo practitioner, and there's only so much time to, you know, be in the office and be able to see my kids, you know, know, for part of the day. And so. So I wrote this book so that people could have all. All the, you know, the. The knowledge, the clinical experience and the knowledge that I've had the. The fortune to really, you know, be able to gain over these past 20 years just doing this and being in the trenches. And so it's getting really great feedback. I. You know, I just. I had this mom just let me know that she just feels so empowered reading the book. And, you know, because you can go online now, and of course, you know, a lot of it's just doom and gloom, and the world is so toxic and against us, and, I mean, y. And we can't just leave it at that. Right? We can't just say, all right, it's doom and gloom. Yeah, the world is not really a great place right now to raise healthy kids if. If we don't know how to move forward. And so that's. For me, I'm all about solutions. You know, as a mom, I'm like, it doesn't do me any good to just sit there and be scared that. To eat this or put this on my kid's skin or breathe that, it's like, well, okay, what can we do about it? And there's so much we can do, which is why I wrote the book.

Yeah. Well, you kick it off right away with talking about resilience, which is my. That's like my theme word of midlife, I think, is, you know, and especially maybe post pandemic, it's even more important. Just, you know, we have to be resilient. Life is kind of being lifey. Right. And so let's talk a little bit about. You start right off the bat with your book of resilience in a large part, starts with a resilient gut. So. I know. I mean, I know, people know that their gut health is important for their kids. I think that it's always good to be reminded of kind of specifically why it matters so much. And then we can talk a little bit about your gut resilience score too. But tell us. Yeah, yeah, about, like when you, you know, talking to moms about this isn't just a probiotic, what do we need to think about?

Yeah, so it is not just a probiotic. And in fact, it may have very little to do with taking a probiotic. But you know, the, the term resilience really did. I mean, you and I have been talking about resilience long before the pandemic. But you know, during the pandemic it really became clear it's never ever getting sick or never ever getting exposed to this toxin or that. Because frankly, unless you're going to live in a completely isolated little bubble, which is probably worse for you than the thing you're trying to run away from. Right. It's just not possible. And so how do we build that resilience so that if our kids get sick or they have a, you know, psychological stressor or, or you know, jet lag from traveling, all of those we know, put stress on our body. And so how do, how do we allow their, their brains and their immune systems and their microbiomes to be able to bounce right back and you know, all of your listeners know how important gut health is. But when we really understand, and our kids and our teenagers understand how important those trillions of tiny microscopic friends in their tummies are for their developing immune systems or developing brains, their future hormones and their metabolic syndromes and even, you know, their epigenetic futures. It, it frames it in a way that I think for the families that I work with, it's so much easier than to think about the choices we're making and how we're eating and how we're living and you know, how we're really going about our day to day lives and, and for kids too, because when they know they're, they're taking care of this whole ecosystem, this other ecosystem inside them that is really helping to keep them healthy and happy, they feel more invested in their decisions. It's not just about, well, I want that, you know, unicorn rainbow frappuccino thing. It's like, well, okay, I want that and let me think about how that's going to affect not just me, but my microbiome and is it going to help me achieve whatever goals I have? You know, whether it's clearer skin, you know, As a teenager or, you know, for. Or for a kiddo, it might be not getting in trouble in school as much and being called out. Right. So we just have to, you know, make it clear. Guaranteed, whatever goals, if your kids can articulate, like what they would love in life, you know, what they really want to move towards there is guaranteed we can link that to the health of the microbiome and how we nurture our microbiome to achieve that goal.

Yeah, well, we'll talk about the how in a second. But I just, I wanted to kind of comment on what you're saying. I feel like with parents and I don't work with kids, but I work with moms. And so a lot of times it's coming up that like, okay, my kid has this going on and. Or we find, let's say, gluten sensitivity with the mom. And I always just say something to think about with your kids because they have your genetics and some of your predisposition. And I think immediately. And I got so lucky in a way, I guess I knew I had gluten. Gluten sensitivity. So is my husband. I just, My kids just weren't raised on. They've always been gluten free. But for moms, when they, they. It's so a little bit panic stricken. But I know that the immediate response I often hear is like, I just couldn't do it. Like, it just seems like too much to even try to teach them. And you know what you were saying, you got to kind of correlate it. Something that matters. I just like to talk about that a little more because I feel like it's just an immediate. No. Yeah. Like it's just too hard.

Yeah. Well, and it can seem really hard. And I'm not gonna say it's the easiest thing in the world, although if you, for many of your moms who maybe have Hashimoto's or her or are dealing with, you know, hormonal imbalance and they are gluten free. If you're gluten free or even gluten light in the house, it does make it a lot easier. And so, but, but it's all, it's really how we frame it. You know, when we, when we discover that our kids have a gluten sensitivity and wow, that could be correlated with their eczema or their ADHD or their sleep problems an, you know, even, you know, their, their headaches or whatever it is, we want to frame that as. Wow, that's an opportunity here. That is. We've just identified A potential culprit that could help your kid not be so itchy all night or, you know, help them be able to manage their worries so that they don't have debilitating social anxieties or whatever it is. But it is this opportunity. We want to frame it as that because if we go in knowing that, you know, maybe this underlying gluten sensitivity or dairy sensitivity or leaky gut essentially is contributing to your kids health concerns, yet our mindset is, oh my gosh, how could we deprive them? It's never going to work. Right. And that, that negativity that we bring into it may also make a gluten elimination less effective because we know, you know, psychological. Psychological health and psychological stress is as much of a trigger for leaky gu as, let's say that gluten. Right. And so, you know, there's one study that I looked at was fascinating. It looked at the impact of psychological stress and who of us is not stressed nowadays? But, you know, and our teenagers especially. But psychological stress could trigger the release of a protein called zonulin from our small intestinal cells within one hour. Now, what is zonulin? Well, when zonulin is released, that means your. Your gut lining is getting leakier. Right. And so, so I often, you know, tell kids and parents things that if you learned in childhood to be able to bring this with you into your young adulthood years and your parenting years and on and on, that would. Would form the foundation for thriving health would be if we can learn how to regulate our nervous systems and if we could learn how to read food packages like a gut hero, is what I talk about in the book. Because those two things are kind of the, you know, stress and eating some foods out of a package are just part of life now.

Right.

And so we can learn how to do those in a way that still maintain resilience. We're going to set our kids up for success no matter what happens to them later on.

Yeah. And I think some. You got to bring that attitude, I think, of optimism and not gloom and doom like you were saying. And sometimes you just got to keep trying.

Right.

Sometimes it's not going to go well in round one with our kids. But kind of like anything else.

Right.

We don't usually give up on. On that. Yeah. You know, do our best for our kids.

Well, and I will say with the gluten elimination, you know, when, when your kids are toddlers, that's easy. You have total control over what's on their plate. Right. But as soon as they get out to the quote, big wide real world, you know, and even in preschool, right, they're looking at what Johnny's eating over there or like, you know, the birthday party starts. And so what I would say is in the time of when you're really trying to heal, let's say your child has juvenile arthritis or you know, has Hashimoto's or pans or pan is any number of, you know, fairly significant, you know, concerning health, health problems during that time of healing. We do want to be really 100% gluten free and working towards that. It doesn't have to be tomorrow. However, once you're in that resilient state. My goal for kids and teenagers is for, for them to be able to connect the dots, have that better ins, not just gluten, but how any particular foods, the, you know, good for you foods and the not such, you know, good for you foods, how they make them feel physically, emotionally, what, what that does to their skin so that they can make informed choices for themselves later on. And you know, I tell you, once you educate the kids and empower the kids, oftentimes what I've seen in my practice and also, you know, when I was teaching my daughter's school all of these concepts, they are often our best informants. I mean they kind of, you know, when you go grocery shopping with them, they're often the ones looking at like, did you know that this said artificial and that means fake, you know, or like, or like, wow, mom, this, look at, look at all the sugar this has in, you know, something that we don't think of as having sugar. And so you can get there. You know, it's. And it's not about being perfect. It's about teaching your kids so that they can have these foundations.

Yeah. And they're so lucky that our generation of moms is learning to take better care of ourselves because I think they're gonna, they're gonna really benefit from that. So I want to get into like behavior stuff and some of the food additives, but let's just go backwards a little bit to the microbiome. So.

Yeah.

Besides the probiotic or maybe instead of what's most important when we're trying to think of what do I need to be doing on maybe a daily basis to keep the gut healthy or maybe get it healthy if we're not quite.

Yes. Yeah. So really key. And I want to sometimes also understanding what disruption to your gut microbiome can lead to can be a motivator as well. So there, there's Two studies that I, I discussed with parents. And, and I always want to share these a little bit, you know, more gently because you might go back in time and your kid has horrible eczema and you're like, oh my gosh, was it because of X, Y and Z? Right. We always do that as parents, and especially, I will say, I don't think my husband does this. Right. But as moms, we always, we think about, like, I still think about that, that one tuna fish sandwich that I just had to have when I was 12 weeks pregnant with Kenzie. I just couldn't resist it. Right. And so why do we do this to ourselves as moms?

Right.

But you know what, when we look at the developing microbiome, we know that our infant's microbiome from the time they're born up to about maybe three and a half, four years of age is really fluid and changing and rapidly developing. And, and we have, they have their own infant microbiome signature. And any disruption, especially in the six month, first six months of life has been found, for instance, antibiotics or antacid medications in the first six months of life have been found to significantly increase the risk, nearly double in some cases of every single allergic disease by the time your kids are four. So things like eczema, asthma, hay fever, anaphylactic food allergies, which we know on the rise. And so we have to wonder why is that? Right? But it's how the microbiome is shaping that, we know, influences that. Another study out of Finland looked at a very large study looking at mother infant pairs and found that infants who received antibiotics at any age, but especially in the first six months of life, were at significantly increased risk of any mental health concern, you know, by, by up to, you know, increased by up to 50% by the time they were older kids or teenagers. And, you know, for parents who are sitting here thinking, oh my gosh, well, my kids have anxiety or my kids have ADHD or, you know, they have horrible eczema. Could it have been from the antibiotics when they were six months or four months old? You know, that that is part of your child's story and it may have set that stage. But I always tell parents, look, my own kids both had antibiotics when they were under four weeks, five weeks of age. And I, I knew they were absolutely necessary. I also knew, fortunately how to restore their microbiome. But even if you didn't at that point, and your kids have eczema right now, or they have, you know, hay fever, it's never too Late to restore a disrupted gut microbiome. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing this work with kids. You wouldn't be doing this work with moms, right? I mean, we can. It may take a little longer, but it's always possible. So then, then there's the how, right? And in part two of the book, I talk about the how. And the how starts with the foundations. I talk about the five things that create microbiome magic. And these are the five things that we do every single day. And so I'm not asking parents or kids or teens to do another thing on top of their busy schedule. These are five things that we're already doing. We have to eat every day. We have to move our bodies every day. We have to breathe every day. We have to sleep and hydrate every day. So if we learn how to do these in a way that nurtures our gut microbiome, then there we go. We're creating microbiome magic every day. We're creating microbiome resilience every single day. So I go through the different steps of these five things. And of course, one whole chapter is on, you know, what we're eating or what we want to kind of keep out, but in a really practical, easy, easy to understand way for kids and families. And then another whole chapter is dedicated to breathe. And what I mean by breathe is that nervous system regulation and how do we engage our vagus nerve? Because when we engage our vagus nerve, improve our nervous system regulation, improve our sense of calm in the moment in the face of stress, we actually can improve your child's microbiome independent of what they're eating. And the same thing with moving our bodies and sleep and hydrating. I call it a wheel of whole gut resilience. Because in a wheel, it doesn't matter where you start. So if you're one of those, you know, one in two kids on any given day doesn't eat a single vegetable. So if that's one of your kids, all right, if it's super stressful to think about how to get more fiber into their diet, then don't start there. Start with, you know, moving their bodies or how they're sleeping or how. How they're, you know, being mindful in the world. I mean, you can start anywhere and it's still going to help.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, it is just, I think, you know, so many of us are struggling to take care of our own health, and then I think the stakes are so high with our kids, you know, so anything that helps you moms listening to know that start where you're at. You just keep trying. There's lots of hope. So obviously, I'm going to recommend everyone get the book. It's going to be one of those things you go to repeatedly to kind of. I mean, you've got kind of like the plan in there from like A to Z. But I think there's also a lot of other resources in the book, too, because the thing about our kids is. Oh, my gosh, I can't. I say, I use this analogy a lot. I feel like when they were three months old, it's like, okay, we figured out what worked, and then by five months old, it didn't work anymore. And I feel like, you know, then what works at six months doesn't work at one year?

Oh, yeah.

And. And then as they get older, those gaps get bigger.

Yes.

Like, it might work for a year, but they're always changing. And I feel like every time, I kind of feel like, oh, everything's kind of, you know, in a good spot again, those. The intervals are longer, but it always, inevitably happens. Yes, they change, and you have to kind of like revamp everything. So I think people with moms will keep going back to this book because things do pop up and sometimes too, you know, something's been going on, but you didn't know it was a thing. So I'd love to talk about mood and behavior because I think that still is something that while we might know what you eat and your microbiome and your nervous system impacted, I think sometimes it's still hard for parents to know, like, you know, when do I need to look at that? Or some of you out there know full well your kids has a diagnosis, but you're still struggling on how to, you know, get help. And I think this is such a. It's such a scary thing for moms. The moms I talk to that have kids with any kind of behavioral issue, brain issue, it's a. It's a really, really weighs on the whole family. So let's talk about other than microbiome health. You know, what do we want to be on the lookout for and how to support these kids?

Yeah. You know, it does, as you said, it does weigh on the whole family because, you know, you have your questioning as a parent, Are you doing everything in the right way? What are you doing that could be contributing to this? You feel the weight, even if this isn't necessarily happening, but you feel the weight of that judgment from other moms. Right. Or maybe from your family members or your friends. And it can. It can feel really lonely, you know, when you're. When your kids are the ones who are the ones, you know, who are acting out or having trouble maintaining friendships or, you know, just have such anxiety that they're not able to get out the door to get to school. And so, you know, even with that, you know, understanding that the vast majority of your neurotransmitters are actually brain gut chemicals, right? They are actually microbiome chemicals that are made to support our nervous system. And, you know, something like 80 to 90% of all the serotonin in our body is made by our gut microbiome. Serotonin is what helps us feel calm and relaxed, helps us manage stress, helps us with sleep. And it relies on having the right microbiome, right? The. The. The right probiotics that actually can make serotonin or the right probiotics that can actually make dopamine or melatonin. So if we don't have that combination of beneficial flora, it's going to be an uphill battle all the way. You know, even if you're at the point where you're considering, let's say, an ADHD medication or an SSRI antidepressant or antianxiety medication, there is a time and a place for, you know, for, for medications, but those medications rely on having some, like, substrate, some substance to be able to act on. You know, for instance, you know, an SSRI medication like Lexapro, it prevents the reuptake of serotonin between two brain cells. So your brain is tricked into thinking there's more serotonin around. Well, if you don't have enough serotonin to begin with, because your gut microbiome isn't making a whole lot of serotonin, or maybe hardly at all, there's nothing for that SSRI to really act upon, which is why I see a lot of kids, and this is the story for a lot of adults, too. Maybe that SSRI helped in the beginning, right? A little bit, or maybe a lot of it. But then eventually it stops working. And if you haven't done the work on your gut microbiome to make sure that you're producing adequate amounts of serotonin, that medication, it's not going to be helpful anymore. And also, you know, addressing the nutrient depletions that occur, like the B12 and the folate, and guess what? Many of these vitamins, too, that our brain needs are made by our microbiome. They are. You know, you ask the question, what about taking A probiotic. It's not just about the probiotics. It's also about is it the right kind of probiotic supplements that we're taking, the strains, and also what are the end products of the probiotics. The reason why fermented foods we know now are so good for us is really much less about the amount of probiotics in there, because some fermented foods have been found to have very little in the way of living probiotic organisms. And sure, there may be some fiber in there from the prebiotic, like the cabbage in your sauerkraut, but the real benefit is from all these postbiotics, these fermentation products. When the probiotics eat the sar, eat the cabbage, they create all of these byproducts like serotonin and GABA and B12 and butyrates and all the things. Now that we know some people take them as supplements. But guess what? You know, if your microbiome was healthy, you would need a lot less of the supp to begin with. So, so that's why we really want to nurture a healthy gut microbiome. And, you know, it's not just about sprinkling in hundreds of trillions of probiotics, you know, colonies into your gut. If they don't have that foundation, the right soil, the right ecosystem, the right environment, to actually want to stick around and call your gut their home. I don't care how many billions of colonies of probiotics you take, it's not going to help until you have those foundations right, all those five things. Right. And so, and so when it comes to behavior or mood, even if your child has zero, quote, gut symptoms, I will tell parents in my office, your child's mood or, you know, as a teenager, your anxiety, that is a gut symptom that is telling us we have to look at your gut and see what's impacting your microbiome. And then of course, you know, the foods that your kids are eating that may be directly harming their brains. We know ultra processed foods, foods with all of the artificial dyes, the food additives and emulsifiers, many of those, I mean, we know about, you know, 2/3 of kids diet right now is from ultra processed foods. And when they've looked at brain scans of children and teenagers who have, who are eating largely ultra processed foods in their diet, parts of their brain that are responsible for memory, decision making, mood, they start to shrink. And that, you know, it is reversible with a steady diet of healthy, less processed foods. But we have to Be aware of that Same thing's happening for our elderly. Many of us are in this, you know, quote, sandwich generation where we have young kids to take care of and we also have our aging parents. And the same thing, we know that a steady diet of ultra processed foods in the elderly is going to cause brain changes that increase the risk of Alzheimer's. And then for us as, you know, sort of, you know, midlife parents, you bet that same thing's happening to our brains. We're just, it just may not be as obvious. Right. So, so we want to make. That's right. We want to make this a whole family affair. And, and so that's the, the flip side of understanding that when we, you know, the other thing too is sort of a chicken and egg because we know these ultra processed foods can create changes in your brain. They also have been found, many of them, to directly impact the gut microbiome, directly trigger leaky gut, directly cause something called gut dysbiosis with an abnormal balance of microorganisms, positive and negative organisms in your gut. And so it may be, whichever way it is, it's impacting your child's gut brain connection. And so looking at the foods, I mean, I always look at food first because food is medicine. And by impacting that, we are going to impact your child's microbiome positively.

Yeah, you know, it's, I think, own kids and then, you know, My advice for their health. But I think sometimes there's a disconnect with our kids. I think there's sometimes still a fear that if I don't go the medicine route. And you, you know, we talked about like acid blockers and stuff in babies. You know, I have right now currently in my little kids friend group, I think three friends that are, have to take an acid blocker every day, like a daily dose and then tums per meal.

Yeah.

And you know, I, I. No judgment on moms. I have no judgment on any. Everyone, I think, is doing the absolute best. But I think there's sometimes, you know, then they find out a little bit like what I do. And so we've got like the, the antacids and the Miralax and that's what they've been recommended. And I think if it was the mom coming to me, they would say, well, what would you do? Like, I've got some reflux. And I'd say, okay, here's what, you know, we'd want to rule out H. Pylori and we'd want to work on. Do you have new triggers and your stress response and all of these things. Yeah. And I would do some of those same things if I was treating the kids. There's sometimes just this fear, I think, and I don't know if it's just, you know, this can. We're. I think with our kids, the stakes, again, are so high, but I know sometimes it's stuff that we might do for ourselves, and we're, like, scared, what if I'm screwing up with our kids? Like, what if I don't do the medicines? And again, there's always a time and a place for that. But when you're kind of in that exploring point, I always ask, like, what would you do if it was you?

Yeah.

So, you know, that might be something I need to do to get them started. But, you know, do you see that a lot where there's sometimes, like, some fear with just, like, stepping out of the conventional realm with our kids?

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And I would say, you know, for moms who are coming to. To you for the first time, think back, too, about when you were stepping outside the conventional box and, you know, maybe a little skeptical or just, like, not sure. Is this. Is this the right thing? And as you said, for our kids, it is. I mean, the stakes are higher and. And we just. We don't. I mean, especially with. With mom guilt, right. We. We just want to know we're not making a mistake. Which is why, you know, it was really important for me in the book to have tons of references and citations so that parents and practitioners know this is grounded in so much evidence from decades in the literature, and also really grounded in my 20 years of clinical experience doing this. But then, you know, like I said, there is a time and a place for medications. And if you're just not sure and you feel like, I just want to try the medications, because this is what my pediatrician is telling me, that's okay. I mean, like. Like you said, there's no. No judgment. I mean, we. We are only doing the best we can in the moment. But then it's also kind of stepping back and thinking, all right, so my child is on this antacid medication, you know, for. For reflux, for heartburn and taking tum symptomatically. Why is that happening to her? Like, why does she have reflux? You know, what is. Because kids shouldn't have heartburn, right? Kids shouldn't be constipated all the time or have, you know, daily headaches or have trouble sleeping. That's not. That shouldn't be considered the Norm. And you know, in the very introduction in the book, I talk about, you know, how we parents nowadays have really come to normalize that kids are, are, have these little, quote, health concerns and oh, they're not that big a deal. They have a little heartburn or, you know, they have a little eczema here and there or. Oh, yeah, they wheez sometimes when they have colds, but, you know, or, you know, yeah, they just, they don't like the tags on their shirts and you know, they have some. Or the blender or, you know, they're, they have sensory issues and it's like. But that shouldn't be considered the norm because it's, it really, you know, it's a function of, you know, I've seen this evolution, you know, in over the past 25 plus years of medical training, I guess it's 30 now of medical training and then being in practice of, you know, these things that now, I mean, eczema used to not be nearly as common. Now one in five kids has eczema, right? And probably more who have eczema patches but haven't been given the diagnosis label eczema. Right. And you know, things like, like reflux. I remember when I was in residency, pediatric residency, and even just out of residency, this is back in 2000, so this is a while ago, right? I'm dating myself. But, but I mean, never, ever would you ever think to give an acid blocker like, you know, Zantac or Pepcid to a baby or a child even. It just wasn't even FDA approved for that. And then all of a sudden, you know, this one year, I distinctly remember, I came back from traveling. We had taken time to travel around the world before starting the practice. And I was working in my friend's pediatric office, and all of a sudden, every baby who was colicky, cranky, fussy at two weeks of age was being given a prescription for Zantac. I'm like, what's going on? And because it had been approved then for reflux in babies, and I'm like, well, how do you know if they actually have reflux or if they're fussy and there's something else going on, like maybe they need a probiotic, you know, for their tummies or, you know, maybe, you know, it's. It's the dairy in mom's diet or something, right? And so we've come to normalize that. This is just. Babies are fussy and they have reflux and they should be on these medications. And so. But we also Now I think as, as pediatricians are recognizing some of the unintended harmful long term effects of these medications that we hadn't thought about before. You know, Zantac is now not given to babies because we know that that can increase the risk of bone fractures later on in life. You know, we know the, that antibiotics can be life saving. But in this world now where antibiotics in some studies up to 70% are inappropriately prescribed for children and their immediate disruption to your child's microbiome and the potential future impact on their hormones and immune systems in their brain, we can't ignore that anymore. So we have to use the medications judiciously but understand their impacts and from that more holistic, integrative function medicine perspective, know, okay, if your child's on, let's say, let's say your teenager's on the birth control pill, well, guess what? We know that that's going to increase her risk of depression and suicidality. How do we mitigate that? Could that be because the birth control pill disrupts the microbiome as much as antibiotics and also that it depletes vitamin B12 and B9 or folate, which is so important for neurotransmitter production? So she, your teenage girl is choosing to be on this birth control pill will support her, but let's also support her microbiome, let's also support her nutrient deplet. So it's not an either or. It's how do we, you know, be fully informed to make the best decisions and come up with a comprehensive plan that's going to support your child or your teenager just like we would for you as an adult.

Yeah, I think that's such a good point. Like with some of these medications, antibiotics, it's not always like, oh, we can't ever do that because that's going to have all these consequences when that's the right call. Like you said, what else do we do? And that's certainly what I would do if I had a woman in my practice who for on the pill right now. What do we do to shore that up? And then what's our exit strategies too? Like for, you know, maybe with our kids, if they eat the asset blocker right now, like what's the future plan? Do they just take this till they're 8 years old or do we maybe get through a really bad, you know, flare while we're trying to maybe figure some other things out? So, and you know, that's really what I think your book is very good at is like alleviating Some of that just fear. And, you know, I think most of us just need to kind of remember, like, I know I felt this way when I was actually delivering a baby. Like, everything always feels like it's an absolutely now decision. And we oftentimes have a little more time to think you can get that prescription for yourself or for your kid, go home and still, you know, have it and maybe give it 24 hours. I think there's so much pressure to make those decisions, like right in our doctor's offices. And I always think that's a good question to ask your doctor. How much time do I have to make this decision? And I think the other really good one, I talked about this in my advice for new moms or to be moms, you know, If I make this decision, what are, what if we make the intervention now? What other, you know, things might flow from that? And I think that's an okay question to ask pediatrician too. If we go down this path, like, what are some things we need to either look out for or what might, might future interventions be? Just making that decision. Right. And so I think it's going to be really a good resource for alleviating that, some of that fear and all of that. But I don't, you know, I think there's nothing scarier than when your kid is sick. So let's talk about what some of the things that just freak us out as mom's eye fever is a big one. And then again, like making decision, you have an entire chapter, Calls from parents every day.

So, yeah, so in part four, the whole goal of part four was to give parents tools that I as a pediatrician use in my practice and even for my own children, for the top 25 most common acute conditions that we see in our kids, especially because, you know, our kids, kids, let's face it, it's usually two in the morning or like, you know, midnight when they get a fever or they start to throw up and you're like, oh my gosh, what do I do now?

Right?

And you don't want to go down the Dr. Google rabbit hole, because that's just gonna, in your sleep deprived state, you're just gonna panic even more. Right? And so, you know, I, I put, I put in the book, you know, I use a variety of different natural tools and also conventional medications if they're necessary. But when you use your integrative natural tools, the need for those conventional medications will be much farther and fewer in between, which is great. You can reduce the need for things like antibiotics or antihistamines when your kids have allergies or fever reducers. And fever is one of the most important topics for parents and practitioners. It is so important because fever phobia is rampant. And still, you know, now we re, I think there's more of a recognition that fever is your body's natural response to fighting infections, that this is, hey, evolutionarily, we, our bodies, our immune systems mounted fevers so that we could fight infections more effectively and mount this inflammatory response. But still not enough knowledge, right? Because a lot of times still to this day, if you were to bring your child to the emergency room or urgent care and they have a fever, many times the triage nurse will immediately give your kid a dose of Tylenol even before you've gone back into the room and the doctor has seen you. Right. And so that's actually, you know, not, I would not recommend that, you know, so there is a time and a place for fever reducers like ibuprofen and Tylenol, but we have to understand again, this is our body's natural responses. There is evidence showing that when we artificially suppress the fever with things like Tylenol or, or ibuprofen, that can actually keep your child sicker for longer. It can actually increase the shedding of virus from your nose, so it makes you more contagious. And the last thing we want is to temporarily, ever so briefly, make our kids feel better. Right? Because I always get from parents, well, they, they acted totally normal when I gave them the Tylenol, but then it wears off and they're sick again. That's because it didn't help your child fight the infection at all. Right. But so we're training temporarily, short lived relief for maybe having them be sicker for longer and be more contagious to those around. Right. And so, you know, there's so many natural tools that can help work with your body's own immune system to get over fever faster in a more natural way without suppressing. And so I, I give a list of different herbal options, homeopathic options, essential oils. I teach you guys acupressure points to use and you can use all of them or just choose if totally new, you know, to using homeopathy or acupressure, essential oils, herbal medicines, then that's okay, you can start, you know, have the, have the ibuprofen there as a backup and then try and start something, you know, and see how it goes. And then every time your child successfully overcomes a flu or you know, a stomach flu, or an allergy attack or whatever it is, fever, you build more and more confidence. And so, so these are all different. And I also. Right in the, in each section, when it's a good idea to call your doctor, you know, when you might want to think about going to the emergency room, because that, like, as a parent, that's, that's the biggest worry. Right. You know, should I bring in.

Right.

And then also when antibiotics might be necessary. And I list an entire post antibiotic microbiome recovery plan so that, you know, if your child's on antibiotics, what can we do? You take them. Okay. If you're, if you know it can be hard, you know that when you ask your doc, hey, is this antibiotic really necessary? Sometimes, you know, the doctor may not have a clear answer and they may just say yes without recognizing that, well, you know, for ear infections from the vast majority of kids, we actually can wait 72 hours to see. Right. But you know, if they aren't, if they are necessary, your doc has said that they're necessary, then you take them. You take the entire course, take it with confidence. And now you know how to recover their microbiomes.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that you, the book is really great for both these. The cute things that are going to come up as parents, like stuff we were just talking about when your kid does get sick, when do I need to do the meds? When do I need to take them in? What are my. Some of my other options? And then, you know, kind of the stuff we're talking about. The beginning is more the ongoing stuff. The skin issues, the gut, the mood, the anxiety, get to sleep. So you really did a great job of covering like our, I feel like our journey as, as moms. So it's.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm going to put the link in the show notes to get the book. And where else are you. You're still hanging out on Instagram. Where else can. I mean, I, I honestly think everyone listening to this already follows you. But just in case we've got some, some newbies, where, where can they get more of you?

Yeah, so I'm, I am most active on Instagram. That's help. Healthy Kids. Happy Kids is my username and my, my website. Healthy kids, happy kids.com is where you'll find information. I send out a newsletter periodically. I don't send a ton out. I, you know, as a busy mom myself, I always, before I post anything or before I send a newsletter, I always think, okay, how would I feel if I had taken five minutes out of my busy schedule to read this, would I feel like, oh, it was totally worth my time time, or would I feel like, oh my gosh, I wish I had not read that. And if it's the latter, I won't hit send, I promise you.

Yeah, you, you put out great information and I know that. I think if any of my, the women, most women in my patients. Well, most of my patients that are moms know you and their biggest question is like, how do we get one in my area? Because like, there's Only so much Dr. Song to go around and I know I have patients that travel to see you and so are there resources for parents that are looking for until we can clone you, someone like you in their area and especially, you know, yeah. Kids with pandas, kids with digestive stuff. So where they need a little more testing or maybe some more advice beyond the book?

Yeah, well, the, the amazing thing is that there are more and more pediatricians and family practice docs who are studying or reaching out. How do I find out more about, you know, pediatric, functional and integrative medicine? It's not a lot, unfortunately. Our kids can't necessarily wait, you know, for the doctors to get all the training. But it's happening. I mean, I think this is more doctors eyes are being open to the fact that this is really and truly I think the only way that we should be practicing medicine. But for now, the Institute for Functional Medicine, ifm.org They do have a practitioner database that you can look up, see, you can look up by zip code and see if there are practitioners near you. It doesn't tell you if they have pediatric experience or if they see kids, but you can call them and just find out. You know, just ask your questions just like you would as you're interviewing a doctor for yourself and just see how much experience they have with kids. They may not have a lot of experience with kids, but some are open to starting to see children.

Right.

And then the A4M. So A4M. The A4 the number M dot com. I'm actually so excited that they are now committing to teach practitioners pediatric functional medicine. And so I've been their chair of pediatric education for the past three years and we're doing an annual conference so that we can train more and more docs. So hopefully we will have a database soon of the practitioners who run through our courses.

Amazing. Yeah, well, we need it because moms, we need all the help we can get to alleviate our own stress and do the best by ourselves kids so. Well, as always, You're a wealth of knowledge, but I think just moms so much need to hear. We're doing the best we can. You've got this new resource with this book to have more information for conversations with your doctor and to make some other decisions within your family. So thank you for writing it. I know people have been wanting you to write a book for a long time, so. Yeah.

And, oh, my goodness, the amount of work and. And time and effort. Well, you know. Right. It's just.

It's.

It's pretty intense, but. But I'm. I'm so glad it's out there now. And I, you know, I feel. Yeah, yeah, I just, I, I, I wrote it for all the mamas out there.

Well, we're grateful, so thank you so much, and thank you for your time for coming on. I know that everybody's trying to get you on their podcast right now, so I appreciate it.

Oh, I'm so, I'm so glad we're reconnecting, and I hope. I hope that I get to see you soon.

Yes. All right, well, everyone, thank you for listening, and I will see you all in the next episode. And of course, there'll be info in the show, notes for how to get the book, the name of the book, and all of that. So we will see you next time.

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