Episode 143: An integrative approach to anxiety and mental health in children and teens with Dr. Elisa Song [Part 2]

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Welcome to the Natural Super Kids Podcast where you will discover practical strategies to inspire you to boost the health and nutrition of your kids. I'm Jessica Donovan, a qualified naturopath specialising in kids health and I want to make it as easy as possible for you to raise healthy and happy kids. Let's get into it.

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Welcome back to the Natural Super Kids Podcast. Jessica Donovan here and today I'm excited to be sharing part two of the conversation that I had with the amazing Dr. Alyssa song who is a Stanford trained integrative pediatrician, pediatric functional medicine expert and mum of two. I love this conversation. If you missed last week's episode, definitely go back and listen to that first. This is the continued conversation with Dr. Alyssa continuing on from last week's episode and today we are diving into more information about kids mental health, the root a root sort of cause functional medicine approach to kids mental health and the all important gut microbiome. So in last week's episode episode we talked about some of the pretty scary stats when it comes to our kids mental health. We talked about why the conventional treatment for anxiety and depression in our kids and the medications that are used aren't necessarily working. We talked about the root cause functional medicine approach to child and teen anxiety. And we talked a lot about some of the things that can disrupt the gut microbiome negatively. We focused a lot on medications. And today we're continuing the conversation and talking about some of the other categories that can affect the gut microbiome, our kids diet, you know, their lifestyle. We're also talking about the all important vagus nerve and.

How we can improve.

Vagus nerve function in children and what that's got to do with our kids mental health. And then Alyssa also shares some of her favorite holistic pediatric treatments and supplements to consider for kids and teens with anxiety. So let's dive in.

So we've got medications, I think you said you like to sort of class those microbiome disruptors into three categories. Number one was medications. And I mean we could sit here talking, talking about that for another two hours.

I know, yeah. So the number one is medications, but that's often out of our control or it's something that has happened in the past. So then we're going to be working, you know, with a practitioner to restore your child's gut microbiome. But the second is really looking at food. I mean, food really is medicine. And most of our kids. And this is, you know, when I, when I came to Australia and I've had the honor of coming to Australia multiple times, we've been twice with our children and once before kids. And I had this in my mind that Australians were so much healthier. But I was assured that it's not necessarily the case that this is. That's right, right. The SAD diet, the standard American diet could also be called the standard Australian diet with these ultra processed foods. And ultra processed foods are foods that are so processed that there are many, many ingredients that are really are chemically made, even if they originally derived from natural ingredients.

To be sweeter, saltier, you know, fattier, more addictive and last longer on the shelves. I mean that is really and truly, you know, why ultra processed foods were created. And so maybe the original intent was, you know, you know, I really, I don't want to say that, you know, all food companies are unethical because there are certainly more better for you food companies that they are really trying. But most of the processed food, packaged food industry, I mean, they have these terms like mouth feel. How do we get this food to feel, you know, really good in the mouth so that kids and adults want more and more and more of it. I mean, it's this, it's this industry lingo that is clearly designed to make foods more addictive. Now, when we look at that, at the effect on the microbiome. Well, we know that your microbiome needs fiber and needs phytonutrients. The more processed a food, the less fiber and fiber really are, make up the prebiotics, the food for our probiotics. So the more processed, the less fiber there's going to be, the less phytonutrients there are going to be. I mean, you take a simple example of an apple. You know, an apple with the peel on may have about maybe three and a half. Anywhere from three and a half to five grams of fiber, depending on, you know, how big the apple is. But so once you peel it, mash it, puree it, you know, sterilize it and make it into apple juice, well, guess how many grams of fiber are in there? There's zero grams. Zero grams, Right. So, and we know that many, many of these food additives are directly, directly cause gut inflammation. They cause gut dysbiosis. So an abnormal growth of either too little of the good bacteria probiotics or too many abnormal, you know, pathologic microorganisms. And they also directly harm the, the intestinal lining and can trigger something called leaky gut, which underlies many chronic health concerns. And so some of the worst offenders in terms of these food additives are what are called emulsifiers. So these emulsifiers are chemicals that keep our food together like a granola bar or ice cream, so that when you open it up, it's not just this goopy, gooey mess in the package. Well, these emulsifiers in some that have tracked this, the rise in the use of emulsifiers correlates with the rise, the rapid rise of the rates of autoimmunity in certain populations. And emulsifiers directly cause leaky gut, cause gut inflammation. And you're not going to see the word emulsifier on the package, though. This is where you have to be a savvy label reader. And so I teach patients, parents, how to read food labels so that they can choose healthier options. This is really important for my kids. Now, as you know, as a 14 and 12 year old, they are going to lunch with their friends on their own. They're going to the market on their own. And so I want them to learn how to relabel so that they can choose a bag of potato chips and enjoy it with their friends, but not have it be the one with the artificial dyes and the flavors and the preservatives that unfortunately, some of their friends are still eating. So you will see words like mono and diglycerides or carrageenan or carboxy methylcellulose, cmc. So those are some of the top ones that you'll see. And so if you see those, you want to just, you know, move the other way, choose a different package. Sweeteners. So added sugar. We know that there's way too much added sugar in our processed foods and, you know, sugar. So having too much, quote, too much sugar has been correlated with all sorts of mood and cognitive concerns, even cognitive decline. As now we, you know, have aging parents. For many of us in this, you know, what's called the sandwich generation, where we have our kids, but we're also dealing with aging parents who are not necessarily aging well. Right? And so, you know, added sugar, you know, the American Heart association recommends no more than 25 grams of added sugar in one day. 25 grams, which is the equivalent of about a little less than six teaspoons. Well, most kids nowadays are eating 19, 30 grams of added sugar a day, so way more than what they should be doing. And so, you know, we want to help our kids look at the labels, because now, at least in the United States, the FDA has required food companies to list how many grams of added sugar in a package. And so if my kids, you know, if they want to go and get the bubble tea, those tapioca boba teas that are really popular, and I have them look at the nutrition facts in the store, and, you know, sometimes they'll choose one that has 35 grams of added sugar. So I let them know, you know what, you can have that. Right? Because I want. I do want them to be able to navigate the real world, and I don't want them to have this unhealthy obsession with sugary or, you know, these packaged foods, but they know that 35 grams is. Is over really what they should have in a day. So then we make that conscious decision to enjoy that, but then we cushion that with. On the, you know, the day surrounding the day before, the day after. All right, we're gonna have less added sugar those days, and we're gonna really focus on having, you know, a really good amount of vegetables and fruit and fiber to. To balance, to have our gut microbiome be able to bounce back from that, you know, added sugar hit, right?

And making them aware. So, like you said, especially when. When you've got teenagers, you know, you become very aware that you're not going to be there. I mean, we had this conversation about phones. You know, I've got phone limits on my kids phone. So they just like switch off. Yeah, they hate it. They're like, we're the only ones with. And I was talking to my son who's almost 16 and you know, I' I know you're actually going to have to manage this yourself soon. So maybe we need to turn them, turn the limits off, but then just really keep an eye on, you know, on your usage for the day. And if it starts going overboard, then I'm going to have to turn them back on. So it's the same with food, like the same thing. They become independent, they need to start managing it themselves. So we need to empower them to make, you know, those, those healthy decisions without like you said, getting obsessed or, you know, with it all.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's just like, you know, just like when our kids are learning to cross the street, we're not just going to say, oh, go cross the street and figure it out. Right. So it's the same thing with our kids phones. It's the same thing with when they go out and start buying food on their own. I mean, we need to support them and anticipate the stumbling blocks that they're going to experience and, and educate them on. Well, this is, this is how we do it. This is one of the safer, the healthier ways to do it. And then, you know, the first few times, go to the grocery store with them, maybe not with their friends, cause they may not want you there, but go and you know, and I've done this with my son because he wants one of those canned drinks, you know, that, that his friends are drinking. So we, we went to the store and I said, look, you go up and down this refrigerated section and pick out a few and we're gonna look at the labels. So you know, like what, what mom is looking for, like what, what mom would be happy about? And you can, you know, make those choices on your own later. So we just kind of walk them through it and you know, even with the cell phone, when they have that free reign at first. Yeah. I would check and see. Well, let's see what your cell phone use was today and how much time you spent. And let's look at what time did you fall asleep, you know, how late were you on your phone and how do you feel the next day? I mean, we just have to grade it, right?

So. And it's the same thing with food now, you know, when we talk about sweeteners you know, we think about sugar being addictive, right. And some people have seen the brain scans where sugar lights up the same, you know, dopamine reward centers as cocaine. But what I tell parents and kids is that those artificial sweeteners are not any different. In fact, fact, there was one study that gave a saccharin, an artificial sweetener, to rats who were already addicted to cocaine. And those rats chose the saccharin.

Wow.

Over the cocaine. I mean, it's alarming. And there's no studies that have proven that the use of these artificial zero sugar sweeteners has made any impact on our weight or our propensity to obesity or diabetes or metabolic syndrome. Right. And in fact, you know, some say it's quite the opposite. So, you know, just being mindful of that, the other, I'd say the other area in our foods that we can do, I, I think that Australia does do a better job of this. This part, you know, is really having more availability to organic foods because glyphosate, which is, you know, is patented as an herbicide, that's, that's Roundup.

Was initially patented by Monsanto as an antibiotic. And so many people are not aware that when they're eating a food that's not organic and heavily sprayed with Roundup or glyphosate, that glyphosate actually has, in some studies has been shown to preferentially kill our probiotics and preserve the abnormal normal bacteria in our gut. So we get this double whammy. And so, you know, understanding that and, and really choosing organic when we can, and especially looking at, in the States, you know, the Environmental Working Group has a list every year they come out with called the Dirty Dozen, which are the top 12 most heavily sprayed foods that year. Kale is always up there. You know, strawberries are always on the list. So I always buy organic kale and strawberries. Now, you know, avocados and bananas are lower on the list. So I'm not as fussy about choosing those organic. So it's just, you know, really when we can make those choices, we try to.

Yeah, and another vote for growing your own.

Like, I mean. Oh, yeah.

So easy to grow, right? So you can, you know, you can look at that list and like you said, prioritize what to buy organic or what to grow yourself.

Well, and, you know, I love that. And I'm, you know, I.

Very sadly did not inherit my mother's green thumb.

But when you, when you grow your own food. So the other thing too is when you use these Herbicides and pesticides like Roundup. Remember, Roundup is also an antibiotic. It's not just an antibiotic, it's also an antifungal. So when you treat your soil with Roundup, it gets into the soil and your soil has its own microbiome. And so you're destroying all of those beneficial bacteria and fungi that actually provide the nutrients for that soil to then get taken up into that plant's roots. So not only are foods that have been sprayed more laden with these microbiome disruptors, the glyphosate directly, but also let's less nutrient dense because then that soil becomes even more depleted of nutrients that are vital for the growth of that plant. So when you are growing your own food, you have all the control over how nourished that soil is. Right.

Without the pesticides and the herbicides. And so I love that. I think even having a box planter in your windowsill, you can grow herbs that way and you can grow little tomato plants.

And yes, even if it's just the leafy greens and the, as we say in Australia, herbs. I know you guys say herbs.

That's right. We do say herbs.

But even if, like, I'm, I'm not a big gardener either. I wish I was. Maybe, maybe I'll get, get to that when I get a bit older. But the leafy greens and the herbs, I think so easy to grow and you've got that constant supply, you know, in a small area of, of your backyard, like you said, on your, on your windowsill.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah.

So that's the foods, right? We talked about the foods. I will say the foods that we want to focus on getting in and I talk about the foods to get out to swap first. Because for some families, if kids are very, very, quote, picky and parents are like, there's no way I'm going to get them to eat a salad right now. So we always say not yet because we want to have that growth mindset that it's going to happen at some point. But sometimes just being able to look at the package and choose healthier swaps, you know, picking a different jar of spaghetti sauce that doesn't have added sugar or picking a different bag of chips as a snack that, you know, doesn't have, you know, all the artificial dyes, just making those swaps are going to help your child's gut microbiome. But then in terms of what we really want to focus on getting in that same, you know, we. It is recognized worldwide that.

Most people across the world have a fiber gap. And that certainly in the United States and I'm sure in Australia, the recommendations are on average, I mean, children should be getting maybe 25 plus grams of fiber a day. And less than.

95% of kids don't meet their daily adequate fiber goals. Right. And 25 grams, I mean, you think, well, okay, that may sound like a lot, maybe not. You know, a cup of raspberries can have upwards of 9 grams of fiber. Right. So and a cup of lentils has 16 grams of fiber. So and then we compare, you know, our fiber intake to, you know, the Hadza in Tanzania, which are really one of the last true hunter gatherer societies in the world that has the documented some of the richest gut microbial diversity and function in the world. They eat upwards of 100 to 150 grams of fiber a day. So we could do 25. If we put our minds, we could do 25.

That's too hard.

And then even those. And color, I mean, we think of color as really, oh, eat a rainbow, fruits and vegetables. But those phytonutrients that each provide a different color.

Really, those phytonutrients act as prebiotics. Those phytonutrients are used by our gut microbiome to shift our epigenetics. I mean, so many different benefits. And most kids in the United States and adults, I mean something like 70 to 90% have a phytonutrient gap in, in every single color. Every single color. You know, some of the latest statistics for children and teenagers with their produce intake show that on any given day, one in two kids doesn't eat any vegetables, not a single one. And one in three children don't eat any fruit. And we know that a higher eating more fruits and vegetables is the same associated with higher mental health scores in kids. So even just getting one more in makes a big difference. Right. And those fermented foods, when you can. There was a study looking at fermented foods and young women with social anxiety and fermented foods. Eating those fermented foods significantly reduced their social anxieties. And the authors note that eating fermented foods could be a really low cost way to help help our young adults with social anxieties. So, you know, if your kids aren't into fermented foods just yet, then we just want to keep trying. There's so many fermented foods that we can get in.

Yeah. So so many varieties that you can, you know, purchase and make yourself like. Yeah, you, you do definitely have to keep trying. Wow, that's really interesting about the social anxiety. Yeah. So food is huge. Food is when it comes to the.

Microbiome and then also when it comes to the microbiome are lifestyle factors. So when you go back and as you're listening to this episode and you think, oh, okay, food and then the lifestyle things I'm going to talk about, well, that's kind of simplistic, isn't it? Well, guess what? I mean, the changes we can make, they are simple changes that will have a profound impact. And yet simple isn't always easy. Right? And simple is not necessarily the quick fix. But these are simple, simple things. And these are things that we can do. I mean, yes, we have to buy the food, but all the lifestyle factors, they're free and you know, anyone can do them. So I mean, the, just, you know, the, some of the things that kids are doing anyway, right? They're moving their bodies. So I mean, through the pandemic, our kids stopped moving enough. But exercise has been found to improve the gut microbiome independent of diet. So even if your kids aren't the healthiest eaters just yet, get them moving more in the way that they like to. And exercise, especially exercise in nature and even dancing in some studies have been found to be more effective than antidepressant medications. So we need to move and make it a family affair because we all could use a little more movement when we think about hydration. Water drinkers have been found to eat more fruits and vegetables. I mean, go figure, right? So prioritize getting enough water in water drinkers, adequate water drinkers, and you know, probably somewhere up to like 70% of kids and adults don't drink enough water. I might say it's probably more than that.

But you know, water drink better. Water drinkers have also been found to have different, better gut microbiomes. And so focusing on hydration is really important. Sleep. I mean, we have an epidemic of sleep deprivation. I mean, most kids and adults are not getting enough sleep. And gut gut dysbiosis, so this abnormal ratio of beneficial bacteria.

And, and not such good bacteria and other organisms so that gut dysbiosis can occur within 48 hours of not enough sleep. Your kid's finals week, where they're studying, you know, pulling all nighters because they're stress and, and studying or jet lag, you know, where you're just, you know, not able to sleep well. So within two days your gut microbiome changes. If you're not sleeping enough, it can recover, but it can take up to one to two weeks of good sleep to recover. So it takes a lot longer to recover. And for teenagers, what I tell teenagers, well, you know, if you have inconsistent sleep and not enough sleep, and some sleep experts will say that, say that teenagers really need about nine to nine and a half hours of sleep optimally. Right. Which most don't get, especially not during school days. But lack of sleep in teenagers has been found to shrink certainly certain parts of the brain that are responsible for decision making and for, and for, you know, cognitive performance. So getting enough sleep is, is really important for your brain. So true, there's that. And I will, then we'll say probably the most important lifestyle factor is really learning how to improve our vagus nerve function. And improving our vagus nerve function is really through, you know, mindfulness techniques, meditation, there's diaphragmatic, you know, belly breathing, there's practicing gratitude chanting, you know, humming, laughter, yoga was found to improve heart rate variability and vagus nerve functioning and a positive mood and optimal vagus nerve function, which we can measure through heart rate variability, was found to improve gut microbiome diversity. And this, like exercise is independent of diet. So if you can as a family have a gratitude practice at dinner, at bedtime, listen to a breathing meditation to help put yourself into that, you know, that.

Coherent state. And engaging your vagus nerve, all of that is going to help support a healthier gut microbiome, which then will support healthier neurotransmitter production and a healthier gut brain connection, healthier gut immune system connection. So it's going to have those brain ripple effects for all of your children's, you know, organ systems, essentially. So and psychological stress, when it is unmanaged, when it is, you know, overwhelming, that is when we say the antibiotics are our single biggest acute disruptor of the gut microbiome, psychological distress is our single biggest chronic disruptor. And psychological stress has been found to disrupt the intestinal lining and trigger zonulin release, that's leaky gut within an hour. And so we want to look at, and this is where for our teenagers and our children, for many of us, and we pass this down to our children now, stress has become a bad word. It's become this new, you know, the new four letter word, right? But what I tell parents and children and really have them think about is the fact that stress is simply your body's physical response to a change, to something about to happen. It's your body's way of getting ready for something different, not good or bad. It's simply that heart rate beating faster, pupils dilating, your blood pressure might get elevated. But that feeling of stress is often accompanied by emotional. The physical feeling is often accompanied by emotional feelings of distress. Now every time we overcome a stressor successfully, our brain learns how to do it even better the next time. And we need that. We need to overcome emotional stress in order to become more resilient to the next stressor. Because there's always a next one. And so I show teens and kids something called a stress performance curve, right? And it's this bell shaped curve where on the bottom left. So on the vertical axis.

Is your levels of your performance, okay. Your performance levels. On the horizontal axis are your levels of stress. So it's this bell shaped curve. So on the way bottom left, where there's almost no stress, think about it. Life is so easy. No demands, no pressures, right? Nothing to worry about. Your performance is also way at the bottom, right? Think about the last time you had no deadlines. Did you actually get anything done, right? And then as the stress gets a little bit higher, a little bit higher, your performance starts to improve and you start reaching this level of peak performance. And we've all been there. We're in the zone, right? That that stress before a competition or that stress before a deadline is, you know, a paper is due or your exam, but that gets you going, right? It makes your brain click in and we become more productive and we become focused and in the zone, right? And so that's kind of where we want to stay. And then once we get too much stress, now we have 50 assignments that are due at the same time and we have all of these other obligations and there's friend drama and maybe some discord at home. And then all of a sud, the stress becomes too high and our performance curve goes down. And then we become stressed and burnt out, right? So stress actually helps us perform if it is manageable. And making stress manageable means that we need to learn how to engage our vagus nerve. So when we're feeling that anxious feeling, heart rate going, and our mind is racing a mile a minute, we can slow down, stop in the moment, breathe, engage your vagus nerve and become calm and focused again so that we can move on with whatever is stressing us out.

Yeah, I love that. It's managing the stress really, isn't it? And those simple vagus nerve techniques like you said, mindfulness, just focusing on what is right now, simple breathing techniques, these are all things we can empower our kids and our teens with and are Great. For, like you said, it links back to the microbiome, but it also is so important in kids mental health and mood and resilience as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Amazing. Thank you for sharing all of that. So lastly, I do want to touch on, on supplements and holistic pediatric treatments to consider for kids and teens that might be struggling with their mental health.

Yes. So, you know, shifting your gut microbiome, it is for the long haul. And so sometimes we don't necessarily see improvements right away, but we will in the long run see improvements and we'll see sustained benefits. So we definitely want to work on the gut microbiome. And when we're giving probiotics, there are a category of probiotics called psychobiotics that are known to enhance optimal dopamine and serotonin levels. And so there are different specific strains. And I don't know if you have the same, you know, the same manufacturers in Australia, but you want to look at. There are some strains. There's one called Lactobacillus helveticus roselle 52, and then there's one called Bifidobacterium longum roselle 175. So these strains I'm sure you have available in Australia, but I just don't know which manufacturers. Right. And there's also Lactobacillus LPC 17. There's another one, a strain called PS128. So the reason I'm saying these is because not all probiotics have the same benefit. There are some probiotics, the specific strain matters. And there are some specific strains of probiotics that I would recommend during the wintertime because it can help reduce fevers and rates of flus, reduce the need for antibiotics, even reduce missed days of school. There are certain probiotics that strains that can specifically help support skin with acne or eczema. Same thing with the brain. There are specific probiotic strains that help support the brain. So if you really want to support your child's gut brain axis, then you'll look for those specific strains within the context of if they've been on antibiotics or other medications that disrupt the gut microbiome. You also want to take a broad probiotic that has many strains to support restoring their gut microbiome. But apart from that, what are some specific supplements that have haven't found to really help support mood, help support the brain? Well, omega 3 fatty acids, I mean, fish oils definitely way, way, way up there. And most children don't get enough fatty fish in their diets. Or omega three sources. You know, even, even vegetarian omega three sources. Now, you know, vegetarian omega three sources are just not as efficient because your body has to convert the ALA in flaxseed seeds or, you know, nuts and seeds into the EPA and the DHA Omega 3s that are directly found in fish oils. So unless you have restrictions on eating fish, I would recommend, if your child is dealing with anxiety, to really, you know, get. Get the benefits from the omega 3 fatty acids. Vitamin D is way up there. You know, most children and teenagers and adults are deficient or insufficient in vitamin. Vitamin D. And vitamin D is so important for brain health, for mood, for cognitive health, for immune health too, for that matter. And so making sure your kids are getting vitamin D supplementation. Magnesium is very, very calming and one of the most common nutrient deficiencies in children. So taking an extra magnesium supplement. There are many forms, forms of magnesium. The most calming form is typically magnesium glycinate. So choosing a magnesium glycinate for your child. And another easy tip to increase magnesium levels is to take an Epsom salt bath, because Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate. And everything we put on our skin gets absorbed through our skin. So when you're sitting in these Epsom salt baths and you're in a warm bath and your pores are wide open on your skin skin, then you're going to really absorb all of that great magnesium as well. And one of my favorite supplements for kids who are experiencing anxiety is theanine. So l. Theanine, it's an amino acid found in green tea and matcha tea. Kids can also drink decaffeinated green tea just put in their water bottles. They can drink it at cool, mix it with a little bit of fruit juice and have it as an ice cream iced tea. But that's a great source of theanine throughout the day. Or you can take a theanine supplement. It's very safe, you know, in childhood and adolescence. So those are some of the supplements I might do. I also teach kids, teenagers and parents how to use different acupressure points and also apply essential oils to those acupressure points for even more added benefits. So there's a point that you can look up as you're listening. You can look up a point called Heart seven, which is Shen Men. It's. It's a spirit gate. It helps to ease, you know, anxiety. It can help with sleep. And it's on your inner wrist, on your wrist crease on the pinky side so you'll feel these tendons there In a little groove there. And that's a point that your kids, if they're feeling anxious at their desk because they have to give a presentation soon, they can just sit and, you know, nobody has to know what they're doing. They just, you know, rub that point in little small circles or put firm pressure on that point. And. And if they have some lavender essential oil, they can roll that or put a dab right on there and just massage that into heart seven. So that's one of the things that kids can. Even if they're having trouble sleeping, this is a great point to help support sleep. They can just sit, do some breathing, hold on to heart seven. They can apply lavender and just slowly inhale that in. And that also, you know, will help in and you know, for a restorative sleep as well. So there's lots of things we can do.

It helps, like give them something to do, especially if they're, you know, very anxious, you know, just to that. That grounding of, you know, touching and massaging. I'm actually tender there when I'm pushing that. So I think that needs a little bit of work for me.

Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting. So that's a great point. Because the points that. That often need more love and stimulation can be more tender. Just like when kids have a fever and I am showing parents to massage large intestine 4, which is on the hand. It can be tender when kids have a fever because it needs to be worked on. That acupuncture point needs to be opened up and the blockage needs to be removed. And so heart seven, if you've had a lot of work due or you're just running around driving your kids from this place to that place. So it may be that. Yeah, you just need to unwind a little bit. It's funny as you say that because mine's just a little bit tender too. All right. It's been a long day.

Yeah. Well, it's been a very busy couple of weeks for me, like, work wise. And then I've been getting my house ready to go on the market and it's like. Yeah, I can. I can definitely understand why.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, thank you so much for. I. I just love chatting to you. I've learned so much. I'm sure our listeners have Lear so much as well. We'll have to get you back on. I know you've got a book coming out in May 2024.

May 20. May 14, 2024 is when it'll be published in. In the United States. And I've been assured that it will be available in Australia pretty quickly after, so.

Amazing. So we'll get you, we'll get you back on to, to chat about that in 2024, but for now, can you just finish up by letting our listeners know where they can find out more about you online?

Yeah, so the best place to find me is My website is HealthyKidsHappyKids.com and that's my blog site. And you know, I send out a newsletter periodically. I only, you know, I really.

Am very conscientious about respecting all of our busy, busy schedules. So because I know as a busy mom myself, I just, I, I don't like getting tons and tons of emails with just a lot of fluff. So I'll never send you fluff. I'll just, I'll send you stuff that as a mom, I would think, oh, there's value in taking my precious time out to read this, right? Yes. And same thing on Instagram, you can find me. That's where I'm most active on social media and that is healthy kids. Understood. Underscore, happy kids.

Beautiful. I'll make sure all of those links are in the show notes and I'm on your email list and I can vouch for, like, very valuable emails. Thank you for that. It's been so lovely to chat. Thank you so much for your time.

Oh, you're welcome. And you know, I also want to offer, I, I just thought of this, so, and, and we can do this if you'd like. But I actually have a shopping guide, like a little infographic on food as medicine for kids mental health. So I go through all of the top foods that really are important for children's mental health and, well, the top nutrients on one side and then all the foods that have a high quantity of that nutrient. And I've done this for immune strengthening too. And so parents love it because they'll print it out, put in the fridge, and then kids can choose which foods they want to put on their grocery list for that day. So I made one specific specifically for mental health because I think it's also important for kids to learn which are the foods. Right now, when I'm in this anxious state, are the ones that I really want to try to prioritize getting in.

I love that. So we will grab the link and make sure that's in the show notes for everyone to find that really easily. That sounds like an amazing resource for everyone. Thanks so much. I hope you have a good rest of your day.

Oh, thank you. You too. I'm really excited to be on with you today.

Thanks so much. Bye. Lissa.

Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Head on over to our website, naturalsuperkids.com for the show notes for this episode, as well as a whole heap of inspiration to help you raise healthy and happy kids.

I'll see you next week, Sat.