Upgrading Your Kids Health ft. Dr. Elisa Song

Optimal health for high performers. This is the Health Upgrade podcast with Dr. Nawaz Habib.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Health Upgrade podcast. This is Dr. Habib and I'm joined by my co host, J.P. how are you? And we are very excited for our wonderful special guest today. It's Dr. Elisa Song. Thank you so much for joining us, Alisa.

What an honor. This is one of my favorite topics in the whole wide world. So of course, I jumped at the chance to speak with you guys.

Of course. And we love talking about development and we love talking about what it means from a cellular standpoint, but we actually get to talk to you about the practical sense of how do we help grow healthy, happy kids. You've recently released your book, which is absolutely wonderful. Healthy kids, happy kids. We are all parents here. Slightly different stages along the lines. I'm definitely way behind you guys, but not too far behind so you can.

Learn from our mistakes.

I'm learning from your. Let's not say mistakes. Let's say I'm learning from all the good things that you guys have done.

Yes, it's an opportunity.

Wonderful. So I'm excited to jump into this because you've worked with kids your entire career, I imagine. What was the initial driving factor to become a pediatrician? What was your inciting moment that said, let me do this?

You know, I actually always wanted to work with kids and, you know, or little creatures. My first desire. I remember when I was in middle school, I thought, you know what? I want to be a vet and live in a big barn and take care of every single kind of animal on the planet. And, you know, I'm not going to say that being a vet is like being a pediatrician, but kind of similar. Right. And so then I thought, well, I don't know, I actually, I loved babysitting, I loved working with kids, and I was a lifeguard over the summers. And so I have a lot of patience with kids, maybe more so with my patients and my own kids. But they're so fun and they light me up. And so I always wanted to work with kids. I just didn't know in what capacity. So when I went to college, I actually thought, maybe I'll be a teacher. And I was always interested in children's advocacy, you know, doing. Doing better for kids. And so I actually landed on being a lawyer at first. I was going to be a children's civil rights Lawyer. Took the LSATs and everything my junior year and was a public policy major as an undergrad because I thought, well, Let me go, you know, to. On Capitol Hill, and I'll just. I'll fight the good fight. Right. And. And then. And then it just dawned on me. You know what? I'm not gonna actually be working with children. I may be serving them, but I really want to have children in my life. And so. So that's kind of how that path went. I was. The reason why I didn't look at pediatrics at first was because my mom was an OB GYN and she was busy, busy, busy. She had, you know. Yeah. I mean, her. Her office was attached. We had a little. I guess you'd call it an in law unit that she converted to an office. And so we were luck. Come out every night and have dinner with us, but she was seeing patients, you know, through late evenings. And of course, back then, you delivered your own babies. And so, you know, she was gone a lot of nights. And I just thought, well, if that's what being a doctor is like, I don't know that that's for me. So. So then you pave your own path.

Yeah, that's exactly my. That was exactly my experience. My father was an OB gyn, and he had an interesting story about why it is that he became an OB gyn. It's a little different from yours, but it was the fact that he. When he's doing residency, he saw lots of different. An internship, he saw lots of different types of fields. And he said, you know, in cardiology or in oncology, the Monday morning conversation is who died over the weekend. Whereas in OB or I would imagine in pediatrics, it's not like that. It's, you know, who did I. Who did I deliver today who had a child this weekend? And. And I'm sure with kids, it's. I mean, I'm sure there's occasionally terrible stories, but I mean, by and large, they're. You're dealing with healthy visits or things that are, you know, not terminal or in. Just depressing. They're just. They're kid things. It's good.

Yes. I mean, you. Especially in the delivery rooms. I remember in residency, you know, just this baby would be born and for the most part, you know, not needing any interventions. Right. And then you would see, like, the moms and the dads and grandmas and, like, crying with joy, and it just. It fills you up. I mean, a lot of times I'd be crying right there with them. But then it's been really a little disheartening for me to see some of the studies on physician satisfaction and the Top, I mean, pediatrics and family medicine, which is the other primary care specialty that cares for our children, they're in the top five rates of lists of specialties with the highest burnout rates. I mean, over 50%. Right. And then I was just looking at another study showing that if you ask pediatricians and family practice docs, you know, who wants to be out of their current job in the next year, over one in three. And so we are, we, you know, we need to think differently about how we're caring for our kids, but caring for the practitioners who care for our kids.

And so what's the reason, what is the primary reason for this level of burnout and this dissatisfaction with the job? Is it financial? Is it just the stress of the job?

I think there's a lot of reasons. This last year was the first year that I can't remember if. I'm sure in the past pediatric residency spots have not been completely filled, but this was the highest number of spots of, of medical students who where during the, I mean, for listeners, it's a very stressful process. You know, there's one day where you match with your residency program and you are, you know, you put down your wish list of residency programs that you want to go to and they do the same for you. And pediatrics was one of the highest specialties that remained unfilled for the residency spots this past year. And some of that is financial because you go into college debt and medical school debt and then you're thinking, wow, pediatricians and family practice docs have the lowest annual income of every specialty because we don't have a lot of procedures that we can bill insurance for. Right. And insurance companies pay less for a pediatric a child's well visit than for an adult well visit, which may be that adults are more complicated. However, think about all the prevention that you can do in a visit. So there's that the looming debt ahead and when are you going to be really financially stable. And then also, you know, to really practice prevention and help kids thrive at least until the next year that you see them, it's not going to be in a 10 minute office visit or a 15 minute office visit. So I think there's so many reasons for dissatisfaction and you know, maybe, and that probably also underlines why we're seeing so many more kids with health concerns.

Was that what drove you to shift your practice to become more integrative and more holistic and really help support kind of that preventative thought process and to help provide some of this really important information to parents and to their children. Obviously that wasn't getting out there because simply there was just a lack of information or a lack of desire to go down that path.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's what propelled me to create more of an online educational platform because so many practitioners were. My pediatric friends were saying, I don't know that I want to do this anymore or I'm looking for a different avenue. And so many parents were calling the office. And as a solo practitioner, I can't am with kids at that time, it was small kids. When I started the practice, there's only so many hours in a day that I could see patients. So I created this online site. But really the reason I went into integrative pediatrics, functional medicine, pediatrics was. I mean, I started from the beginning. That was also. Is kind of happenstance. You know, when I was, when I was at Stanford, I remember, you know, kind of thinking, oh, maybe I want to do this, do medicine now. And, you know, life's lessons come if you're ready to, you know, have your eyes open. Right. And so I remember seeing on this flyer on one of the telephone poles in the middle of campus, this someone had stapled it on and it was a flyer for the American Holistic Medical Association. And that was back in 1990. Okay, so this was, I mean, quite a while ago. Right. And I was, I remember being again a junior and thinking, what is this thing called holistic medicine? And so I actually drove myself down to the Santa Clara Convention center and I listened and I was just, I was so blown away. There were folks who were just really starting to get known, like Andrew Weil and Deepak Chopra and Joan Borisenko. And what they did at that point was really open my, my mind to this concept of mind body medicine. And so it was kind of with that, that passion and kind of new wonder of what medicine could be that I actually started medical school in that way. So. So I'm lucky I didn't. You know, a lot of people come to this because they've maybe had a health of their own that conventional medicine couldn't solve or a family had a health crisis. And that fortunately, wasn't my story.

That's an interesting story. And just so you know, I actually graduated one year before you, so it's not that long ago.

It's not. We look the same as back then.

Exactly. That's what I tell myself. I lie to myself regularly about that.

I'm not going to tell you guys when I graduated. So we're not going to have that conversation.

Yeah, we, we, yeah, there's, we have enough kids in, in our practice.

So it like your mission is to not only treat kids, but you want to educate them and you want to educate their parents about what it means to be healthy going forward and how to be healthy. You know, I always said to my wife when we, when she first got pregnant with our first child, she said, you know, what do you want it to be? Do you want a boy or girl? And I just, I said, you know, I, I, I never really thought about it. And I said, I don't really care. I want happy, healthy and smart, in that order. I've now subsequently added and to live for as long as possible. You know, so, you know, maybe that maybe they're the first kids to live to be a thousand. Who knows? I know that that's coming. But, you know, we're happy, healthy and smart. And I love the fact that your mission is, you know, happy kids, healthy kids. And so tell us a little bit about how you've managed to bring that into what you've sort of described as the modern practice of Pediatrics is 10 minutes once a year with the kids. How do you get there? And obviously your book is a big part of that, but how do you get that?

Yeah, well, and that really should be the goal, to raise kids that can be thriving, joyful and self sufficient, independent adults. And we always have to when we're thinking about the goals. I always tell my kids, if they have some goal in mind, like let's say Bode, he'd like to be on the more advanced soccer team. He's on club soccer and there's two levels and so he really wants to be on the top tier. And we said, well, how are you going to get there? That's your goal. But now you have to reverse engineer. You have to start where you are now and think, okay, what are the steps that I need to have taken to get to that point? And the same thing with kids. We don't just magically have these children and provide them food and shelter and lots of hugs and kisses and then poof, they're ready to be independent adults. And in fact, what we are seeing now is a crisis of kids who are not ready, you know, kids who are, you know, from, from an emotional standpoint, from a, you know, physical and immunologic standpoint, from just even a practical, you know, life skills standpoint. So for me, in my practice, when I started the practice, I started my practice in 2000, a functional integrated pediatric Practice. So it's always been like that. And I've always had longer visits. I mean, the first visit is typically an hour to maybe an hour and a half. If, if a family is coming to me and they already have a kiddo with some sort of a chronic health concern, you know, maybe they've been diagnosed with juvenile arthritis or Crohn's disease or they have ADHD and either they're on meds and they're not working or too many side effects, or they would like to try to avoid the use of medications. Right. So lots of different scenarios. And in those cases, I really like to have a 90 minute visit to really go over the patient's story from even before they were born, unraveling what factors got them to the point they are now so that then you can really fine tune and pinpoint. Well, how do we move forward? Because I mean, in functional medicine we could order a gajillion labs, we could recommend super long list of supplements, but it's, if you know your patient's story, then you can go a little bit more sequentially and really hit some of the bigger needle movers first. So I'd say I, I think it's really, it's very challenging to do this in a, in a setting where you have super short visits. You could potentially, if you are in that kind of a busy, say, you know, corporate insurance model where they're, they're, you know, they are looking their quality, you know, improvement measures, are looking at how fast you can get that patient out the door and chart and move on and your billable, you know, time. Well, I mean, maybe I've had some, some amazing friends who do that work in that system and they just bring patients back more frequently, which is, I mean, it's, it's, it is what it is. But that's, that's what they do so that they can have these visits and still, you know, be able to work in that system. But it's, it' hard if you work in that system.

I think my favorite thing when it comes to this functional, integrative, holistic practice is the depth to which we can go with our patients. Right. And time is really this thing. My initial visits are somewhere between 60 and 75 minutes as well. And the whole intention is to fully understand that patient's story, that journey. What were the challenges? What are those significant moments in their timeline that may have been triggers for health challenges that started to pop up, like maybe they had a car accident, maybe they had some biochemical stressor that was taken that took hold at a certain time, or there was some emotional stressor that occurred. And surely three, six months later, the symptoms started to pop up and they started to notice that challenges were occurring. And so the depth to which you can go in these longer visits is so much greater. And that means that we can really pare down and focus on what are those exact root causes on an individual basis. And that individualized one on one type of care is what. What I pride myself and what I. It sounds very much like that's what you do as well when you're working with a client.

Yeah, yeah, It's. It's so important. And I love that you said root causes, because I think one of the things that that has inadvertently happened over the years since functional medicine really has become. I'm not going to say it's mainstream yet, but so many individuals and families are looking for underlying root causes and not just band aid medicine. But there is a belief still among, I think, too many people that there is a root cause. Right. Like one root cause, and that you find that and that's going to be sort of the panacea for everything that's gone wrong. And that's just not the case. I mean, there often, like for children, there may be something that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Like, that's the incident that we can pinpoint to. Oh, okay. It was after this infection or after this intervention that, okay, things really changed after that. But there's a backstory always. I mean, there's a buildup to how that child's immune system or nervous system was slowly becoming dysregulated to the point where something did tip them over the edge. And for children and telling the story. And I think also this is true for adults, too, but especially for children, we have to go way back to mom and dad even before trying to conceive and see what are the factors that were really epigenetically modifying dad's sperm and mom's eggs and when they meet all of those environmental influences. I was looking at this fascinating article looking at telomere length, and we know telomere length is something that we can look out as a longevity marker, but there are factors in utero, like mom's diet. Being on a Mediterranean diet can actually lengthen your baby's telomere length at birth. So, I mean, there's going to be so many factors that we uncover. But bottom line, I mean, for a baby in front of you or for a child in front of you, we don't just start from the moment they're born. We start, I mean, before, in utero. But, you know, dads don't get off the hook. I mean, we have to look at, you know, what was happening even before. Even before they were conceived.

Yeah, there's lots of. We've talked about this before on the podcast, a little bit about epigenetics and how there's generational effects from everything from starvation, trauma, and other things that happen in the, in the parents, childhood that the, that the, the offspring then are dealing with because they're literally, their epigenetics have been shifted as a result of something that happened to the parents or even grandparents.

Yeah.

An interesting, interesting biological fact. You know, you mentioned something that I thought was pretty interesting about telomere length. And we've, we've just been. I've been doing a little research and looking at how telomere attrition and telomerase, which reverses that. Telomerase is the enzyme that actually rebuilds the telomeres that's affected by stress. And so just the old 100 years ago, grandma would say, oh, you're pregnant. Put your feet up and eat bon bons. Don't be stressed. Don't stress out a pregnant woman. There were reasons for that, but mostly observational and sort of handed down wisdom. What we're finding now is that there's a scientific justification, a scientific basis for saying that women should, when they're pregnant, be less stressed. They should, you know, have a better diet. They shouldn't be taxing themselves to a point where they're in that chronic, sympathetically activated state.

Yeah, well, and when you think about, I mean, maternal stress can absolutely impact your fetal HPA response and stress response. Not just, you know, when they're infants, but even into adolescence, we can see that. And many cultures worldwide, even once a baby's born, there is a nurturing of the mom that takes place, a specific diet that is brought to the mom. You know, I know in Korean culture, I mean, there are certain. I remember my mom, she would make me vats of pig feet bone broth. And I was like, okay, I don't want to look at that, but I'll eat it. It's delicious. And seaweed soup to build up your blood. And you weren't supposed to go outside. I mean, my aunt was like, oh, my gosh, you're going for a walk. You know, you have to just relax and, you know, be covered up from. But, you know, Indian culture, Chinese culture, I mean, there's so many and we've kind of, we've lost that. And you know, many women are just expected to, you know, go back to work right away or even if they don't go back to work. I remember, you know, with, with my daughter thinking, oh, okay, two and a half months is plenty of time, you know, and then that two and a half months, you know, two month mark comes around. I'm like, I am a stressed mess. Even as a pediatrician, you know, knowing all of this, I mean, you know, not sleeping on edge, like everything was jumpy. I remember, you know, one time feeling like I can't even shower because what if the baby cries? And it's like, well, yeah, but we're not meant to do this alone, you know, without anyone in our houses to help support that. So. And then that gets, I do think, I mean, whether it's, you know, epigenetic imprinting or changes in breast milk composition or, you know, just how, how we are co regulating with our babies and with our kids, we are seeing a lot of the downfall in the mental health crisis with our teenagers and our younger kids too. I mean, we can't just, we know in the media say, okay, the, the teenage mental health crisis is really, it's remarkable and not in a good way. You know, some of the latest studies have shown that one in three teenage girls has seriously contemplated suicide, which is, I mean, something that as a parent of a teenage girl now, wow. If it's not Kenzie, it could be any one of her friends. Yeah. And how are we going to be attuned to that? But, but that stress response and resilience doesn't start all the, you know, when they're teenagers. We have to start that when they're young.

Right. And there's, there's so much to, you know, so much in the media talking about what social media is doing to children, especially girls. But it's just as. It's just as much a function of the stresses that they're being put under physically with bad diet. I mean, this, you know, doordashing. You know, I see doordashing, crumble, cookie every night in the house for like $30 a cookie.

Right.

It's insanity. But not even just talking about the financial side of it, which is ridiculous, but it's the idea of this ability to just get whatever you want at any time doesn't create resilience. Resilience comes from not getting what you want. And they get what they want. They have the ability to have it delivered to them so they don't have to lift a finger for it and it's invariably bad food.

They have to lift one finger, their thumb.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

But it's so interesting with, you know, with our life of, you know, such, such convenient ease right now, how that's really, you know, had the opposite impact on their health and you know, and disease. Right. And you know, it's, it's so tied. And when we look at, you know, all of the factors that are really influencing our kids inner teenagers health and we look at the microbiome, vagus nerve connection, I mean you can't separate anything out. We can say there are all these fact and then that is also true where we have to think, okay, for this child, what is the most important factor? But social media, I mean as I was kind of looking into the research, I mean one study found that social media use was actually associated with lower heart rate variability in teenagers. Right. And on the flip side, you know, having higher heart rate variability could, could in a way predict the kids who were less likely to get addicted to social media and you know, screen time and video game use. So you know, all of that and then, you know, a video game use, a sedentary lifestyle alters your microbiome not for the better. Right. Which then impacts the gut brain connection. So it's all this sort of, it's this perpetual vicious cycle. And so we just have to think for this child in front of me, where can I break that cycle? Like what's the first thing I can do to break that cycle? So that then there can be ripple effects of the other areas because otherwise it gets so overwhelming. Okay, no social media, you know, no screens after 10, no boba tea with all the, you know, added sugars, you know, no this, no that. And we have to say, okay, not no to this particular thing in the moment, but yes to, you know, having more time face to face with your friends, you know, yes to, you know, being more clear on your exam the next day. Yes to, you know, not feeling as grouchy with your friends, you know, whatever, whatever. Yes to having clearer skin, you know, I mean, all that. So it's tough now to be a kid and I think it's really tough to be a parent because we're like, where do we start?

You know, yeah, you want to say no to all the things that you know are bad, but then you seem like the tyrant and they're out of touch with the rest of their friends. It's really important to for every. No have a yes. You know, as you just said, I Always, always try to say, no, don't have the crumble cookie, but you want a glass of milk with some honey in it. You know, that's, that's, you know, and I've got, I've got two of my kids who think that that's like the greatest treat ever. I've, you know, reintroduced dates in the house and they like dates. So, you know, better than having a piece of chocolate or having, you know, a thing of Starburst. I'm not even sure what Starburst is made of. I mean, it's this waxy stuff that I feel like it's a candle. Oh yeah, candle. So.

Well, it's about giving, giving just as acceptable swaps and also empowering our kids even at a younger age, educating them on the. Why? Because it doesn't, at some point, you know, just, just because mom or dad said so is not going to cut it. Or, you know, just saying, well, it's unhealthy for you isn't going to do it. And teens, preteens and teens, they are savvy. They're doing their research. You know, I mean, my kids in middle school were on whatever Kids Scholar site, you know, looking up articles and so you want to give them the tools to be able to understand, well, why is this and how am I going to make a choice for myself even in the moment, if in the moment it's not necessarily the choice that mom and dad would want me to make. I understand that this is the choice I'm making. And if I'm more sluggish on the soccer field because of that, all right, I made that choice. That was my trade off. And I know how to cushion that by making sure I have extra fiber at dinner, trying to get a good night's sleep. So the impact isn't as significant. So it's, it's really. And you can educate kids and empower kids even from, I mean, at any age, right? I mean, the eyes. You have a three year old and it's not like, it's not like, you know, she's going to be reading labels at the store with you, but when you're at the store, right, you can say, wow, honey, look at this. Because of course they're going to grab for the thing with like spongebob on it or you know, the Art of the Unicorn artificial dye stuff. And you say, did you know this word? It says artificial. Like, do you know what that means? That's fake. And you know, kids know what fake is, right?

It's such a great Example, because that literally happened with my kids two days ago. We were driving through Toronto traffic, which is a pain. And so we stopped for a, a short break to walk around and we went into the grocery store to get ourselves a small snack and we went through the fruits and we looked at what the options were and then they said, can we go and look at the other treats? And I will absolutely attest to this. My 7 year old now reads food labels. And the thing we'll, we'll look at, we'll look at the ingredients obviously, but we'll look at the sugars and what's the number beside the sugar? Right. If that number is over 10, we know we're not getting that thing. That number is too high. We want it to be as close to 5 or lower if we can. And so we're not choosing things that are high in sugar and we're making better decisions. And she's showing her three year old sister exactly what that means. Look, this has too much sugar. This is a 12. We can't do that one. So we're going to try to get something else.

I think a chunk of the problem and this is a really great topic for us. I love the fact that we're talking about this, is that most adults don't know. So we're talking, we're asking parents to teach their kids because as you said, there's not enough time Even in a 75 minute conversation with a child, there's still not enough time in the year to, to bring that message home. We have to rely on parents to do their job, which is to teach their children and we need to give them the information also, which is why I think your book is so great and why I think it's a great way of getting the word out through podcasts and through other things. What are some of the top things that you tell the parents that they should be focusing on for their children? Obviously diet, sleep and exercise are really big. What else do you talk about?

Well, I will say, I mean, just what Nawaz was talking about, one of the first things is sugar. Right. I mean, that is so key. And you know, in the book where I talk about how to nourish your microbiome and you know, why your child's microbiome is so important for their overall brain, immune, metabolic, hormone health, what we can see is, you know, through the decades, the increase in the consumption of added sugar, sugars has skyrocketed and especially in, I will, I mean, I don't know this particular number probably in the last decade with the advent of, you know, Starbucks on every single corner, right? And now there's a Boba tea or Boba Guys, you know, around, you know, maybe multiple on the same street with lines out the door. And we know, you know, so added sugars will have a direct impact on your gut microbiome. I mean, supporting the growth of pathogenic flora, like maybe an overgrowth of yeast, and not supporting a healthy balanced microbiome to support neurotransmitter production and immune regulation, right? And it's insidious, like jp, like you said, so many parents don't know. So in my book, I actually have a pull out. You can actually link to a PDF, it's called your daily added sugar inventory. And it's just to know, where are you starting from? From like, where are these hidden added sugars creeping in that the food industry doesn't want you to even pay attention to? And you think in the most innocuous things, like I'm gonna point out this one sandwich bread that I was buying at Costco. It's, you know, Dave's killer organic bread. You know, 21 seeds, multigrain, high fiber, high this, right? I thought, wow, this is a great sandwich bread for the kids. And one day I thought, let me turn it over. I hadn't looked at the label, right? And now I look at every single label and I recommend it's not a chore. It's like, okay, you're buying this just like you would look. You know, many people are very particular about what grade gas they put in their car. You bet you want to have that same or higher level of scrutiny about what food you put in your and your child's body. And so, you know, when I looked, I was like, wow, one slice of bread has a whole teaspoon of sugar. Four grams of sugar. So who has a sandwich with one slice, right? So then you're making, you know, a ham, lettuce, tomato, whatever, cheese sandwich, like, oh, great, you know, good sandwich. And then, wow, that's two teaspoons of sugar right there. And I talk about it with kids in terms of teaspoons because grams is a little harder to have them wrap their minds around. But I do let them know that kids should have no more than 25 grams of added sugar. And then I let them know, look, 25 grams, that's about six teaspoons. I mean, one gram is 4.2. One teaspoon is 4.2 grams of sugar. And so then you can make it into a, you know, A steam project. And they can do the math, right, if they're older. So it's crazy. But then, but then you do the, you know, you take your sugar inventory and you realize, okay, that, that sandwich, wow, way more sugar than I thought. Let's find an alternative that has less sugar. The thing that is shocking for a lot of parents, they think, oh, Greek yogurt, Yogurt, great protein in the morning. You know, lots of probiotics and postbiotics and whatever it is. Well, if you buy the one with. Instead of buying, you know, the strawberry one, I was buying the vanilla Greek yogurt because I thought, well, of course there's less sugar in that, so less sugar. That has more. And even the strawberry and the vanilla Greek yogurt, one serving can have upwards of, you know, maybe eight teaspoons of added sugar if you're not buying the right kind. And so you're sending your kids off with this sugar bomb and then their blood sugar roller coaster goes up. We know that blood sugar dysregulation in kids and adults affect mood, affect memory, affect attention and focus. It does affect your heart rate variability and your stress response. And I'm seeing even in fit middle schoolers, athletic on sports teams, they look slim, they look lean, right? And I'm checking their lab work, fasting insulins, fasting blood sugars, and they are too high. They are already in, you know, sort of a pre diabetic or, or pre, pre diabetic state. And I'll look at these teenagers who, like, you know, this, this was just the other day. You know, kiddo, who's, he's on the, the football team. I mean, he's, he looks fit. And yet I'm like, wow, okay, if your goal is to be as lean and fast and, you know, as strong as possible, pouring sugar on your muscles. Sugar is a tenderizer. Like, you are just negating, you know, a lot of the hard work you're doing. So maybe cut out that daily boba tea after practice and swap it for some sparkling water and have boba tea maybe once a week with your friends. But you got. I mean, the average teenager now is having, okay, remember, no more than six teaspoons of added sugar in a day. The average teenager is having 34. Four teaspoons a day, right? And it can easily get in, right? The average adult, at least 19 teaspoons. So we as parents have to have our eyes wide open and realize, okay, where is it sneaking into our diet? Then we can, you know, help our kids to understand for Example, you go.

To Starbucks in the morning to get your coffee and you like your, your, your. I don't even know them because I don't drink coffee. But some of these, like espresso drinks.

That have mocha latte frappuccino.

I mean, I just saw a little sheet that showed that. I think one of them that was pretty popular had something like 68 grams.

Of sugar in it. Absolutely.

I mean, divide that by four, you're already at 17 teaspoons right there. And you know, I think to myself, that's sanity. And I saw Maybe it was Dr. Stephen Gundry was talking about. I think it was that, talking about that a bottle of Coca Cola has more sugar in it. And I'm not talking about the 64 ounce one. I'm talking about just a regular bottle of coconut that people would drink in one sitting that has more sugar in it than the average person in 1850 had in a year.

Oh, I bet. I believe that, you know. Yeah.

But it's not, it's, it. Sugar is a, is terrible. It's literally a poison. So it's actually a drug. Drug. But it's also the highly processed carbohydrates that are being put into foods to replace fats. This is one of my big pet peeves. Is this messaging out there that low fat food is going to make you thin? Well, no, it's not. Fat doesn't make you fat. Carbohydrates make you fat. And if you eat highly processed carbohydrates, have you ever, have you ever taken a really highly processed piece of carbohydrate and started to chew on it and just kept it in your mouth long enough, it starts to get sweet and.

You say, well, I mean, any piece of bread will do that. Right? I mean, it's crazy.

It's turning into sugar. That's what it does. It's processed to the point where literally almost anything, anything, we'll just break it right into sugar. So you're eating something, even if you take a piece of white bread and you say, oh, this is, this doesn't have the added sugar in it.

Yeah.

But the moment you eat it, if it was highly processed flours, it's going to turn into sugar.

Yeah. Well, and then you think about, you know, those ultra processed foods and it's, it's the added sugars, it's also the, I mean, the artificial sweeteners are not any better for you. And then, you know, all of those additives, I mean, there are certain additives in foods, especially those Emulsifiers that are going to really wreak havoc on your gut microbiome. So this goes again to helping kids and teenagers learn how to read food labels. And us too, you know, be savvy food label readers, because the food industry, they're not going to put added emulsifiers on the label. And so we need to understand what some of their code words words are. And like, let's take the Starbucks example. I mean, this is, you know, me maybe, I don't even know. I mean, it actually was probably when it. Shortly after Kenzie was born. But anyhow, rushed in the morning thinking, well, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm not gonna get the sugary drink at Starbucks. And yeah, I'm gonna have some protein with my breakfast. So I'll get those, those sous vide. Egg white bites. Right? These egg protein. Great, right? No, no carbs there. Well, one day I actually decided to look at the labels and it has mono and diglycerides, which are emulsifiers that keep the food from separating. But we know mono and diglycerides can cause gut imbalance. Gut dysbiosis can trigger leaky gut. And so. All right, let's maybe batch make our own over the weekend and think about that and model that for our kids. If life is too busy to prioritize cooking and how we're eating, then we need to think about what those priorities are. I mean, that's one of the most important things we can do for ourselves. And also, you know, show our kids as they go off to college that it's not just about, you know, shoveling in a quick bite, that, that even if we think it's healthy. Right. While we're on the go, go, go. Because that's not serving us either.

Yeah. If it's, if it's manufactured in a plant based, the chances are it's going to have some industrial fats in it, it's going to have the, the emulsifying agents, it's going to have sugars added. You know, one of the things I found really interesting about those egg bites, just to point out, is that you know what the primary ingredient of those egg whites is? It's cottage cheese. Yeah, they actually. So it's adding cottage cheese in there to make it light and fluffy and, and, and taste good. But you can do that at home.

Absolutely.

You know, eggs and throw in two or three tablespoons of cottage cheese and you're getting the same benefit without all the emulsifying agents, et cetera. Tastes much better.

Well, and in Terms of making the time. I mean, one good exercise for kids and teens and parents to do. And we need to do this again in our household. But just sit there just like you do a daily added sugar inventory. Do a time inventory. Just really, like one or two days. Just write down, like, every moment of the day, what are you doing? And you see in your day how much of that time is time. That could be prioritized differently.

How much time are you, as a parent spending scrolling on your Instagram feed?

Absolutely.

On your TikTok feed. Right. Like, we've probably spent 30 to 60 minutes each per day scrolling through a feed just simply because we've gotten into this desire for the quick dopamine hits that are happening there, and it's entirely unconscious. And say.

I mean, it's probably more than 30 to 60 minutes for a lot of people to throw myself under the bus there too. Right. I mean, I'm guilty of that. Of just, you know, being going home and you're tired and maybe it was, you know, a little more stressful day, and you're like, I just want to mindlessly scroll. Meanwhile, your kids are asking you questions and you're. And you're not hearing them, or you're like, wait a second, you get aggravated.

You get aggravated because you're being distracted by them from something that your mind wants. Because as, as Naz said, you're getting that dopamine hit over here. Here. You're not getting it when the child's asking you a question that might be a little bit stressful or might be putting an obligation on you. It's, It's. It's very difficult not to become aggravated. That's why you got to put it down. I, I've, I've literally sworn off. I, I haven't been on Instagram other than to, you know, post information for.

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

To actually just sit and scroll in probably two or three months.

Yeah.

And it's amazing how much more time you have. Have you got to train your brain to go to a, to something that you really care about? Train your brain to. When you have that idle moment in the car or sitting down, you've just, you know, finished a workout and you've got, You're. You're drinking some water to rehydrate instead of scrolling. Think about that problem or think about that issue that, that you care about, and you, You. You don't need it because you're. You're rewarding yourself by. By doing something that you care about. Yeah.

I think the most important thing here from just a quick perspective is we want to use those tools because they are tools. We want to be able to use them and not have them use us.

Yeah.

You know, it's so funny that you say that because I talked to my kids and I finally actually got through to them about social media. I said, when you get online and you go to Instagram or TikTok or something like that, it's all free. I mean, everything you're doing is free. Right? Right. But these companies are worth billions and tens of hundreds of billion, even a trillion dollar market valuation. How did they get that much value if the product that they're providing is free? And they sort of went, well, yeah, that doesn't make sense. And I said, because that's not the product that they're selling. Understand, what they're selling is your attention. They're selling to advertisers, yet you. So when you go online, you are literally becoming their product.

Yeah.

How do you feel about that? Are you getting paid for that? You're not. They're paying you back with dopamine hits. Okay. And they're distracting you, actually sucking you away from things that are actually going to make your life better. And you're giving to them for free.

Yeah.

So remember who the customer is, where the money's coming from and what the motivation is. The motivation is to keep you hooked, booked for as long as possible, to sell advertising time.

Well, and that's, you know, same thing with the food industry. When teenagers say, well, you know, I want that, what is the thing that's coming out now? The fluorescent green, you know, prime monster drink. Just in time for Halloween. Right. Or like, well, it's my decision. Right. And then, you know, teenagers, they want to be able to make their own decisions. But when you explain to them, look, there are food scientists in the back of the office in these food industries, they're like mad scientists that are concocting whatever they can to make their food as addictive as possible so that you actually are not in control of what your taste bud and your brain wants next. And those marketing gurus, same thing. They are making sure that all of those messages in the marketing in front of the label are making it so that your brain actually really doesn't have a choice but to want that. So if you really want that control back, you gotta take it back and make those empowered decisions.

That that is. So I actually know people who are in that industry and that's exactly what they do. So you're you're absolutely spot on. They're in the back room trying to figure out how to get you hooked. And I remember, you know, this is a, it doesn't take that much to figure it out. My daughter was about nine years old, my oldest, and she was a little overweight. And we were starting to get her on the treadmill, teach her about exercise, et cetera. And we went over to my in laws house and they always had a big plate of cookies after dinner. And they were good, trust me, they were tasty chocolate chip cookies. I saw her, it was actually Thanksgiving time. She was outside and she was sitting on a swing all by herself. And so I walked outside thinking, did somebody say something to her? And I said, why are you out here? She said, dad, I told myself I was only going to have one. And I finished it. And all of a sudden I realized that I was eating a second cookie. And she said, I have no, I have no recollection of actually picking the cookie up or starting to eat it. So it literally was something that I did and I, and I said the only way I can stop this is to leave the room. And I thought that was so incredibly prescient. Like she figured it out.

Absolutely.

At nine years old, she said, something took control of my body, body. And that's what they're trying to do. Same thing what they're doing with the social media, with the dopamine, they're doing it with sugar, they're doing it with, I've said to people, it's like the, the growth in the food industry by definition should not be greater than the growth of the population because if everybody's eating the same amount and eating the right things, then the, the only more food that you're going to need is only if your more people population goes up and presumably with better refrigeration and better storage and better, you know, better routes and logistics that should actually come down because there's less wasted food. Yeah, we're not seeing that. What we're seeing is more and more and more food getting eaten and the food industry is making more money because they're getting better and better and better at getting us to eat more and eat bad things that are cheaper to mention make. And so we just got to fight back against it.

Well, and that, I mean, that's, you know, our, our kids and our teenagers, they are, they are the current and future consumers. Right. And so, you know, really teaching them how to be savvy food label readers. Be savvy and what, what, you know, what they do on their screens and, and how they're, how they're living. I mean it's really, it's, it's so important. And I just, even with, I mean, for kid, I mean now in the adult world it's all about biohacking. Right? I mean, how do you biohack your longevity? Like, but why should, why should people have to. If we could get to a point where, where kids and teens knew how to live in a way that's going to sustain their, their longevity and their health span, then they wouldn't need to biohack when they're, I mean that, that's my goal. Right. That's what I want.

Biohacking has to come. That. And I, you know, I realize it's a bit of a tangent, but you know, we're living in an island in time right now when antibiotics work. And antibiotics were truly an amazing miracle of the pharmaceutical industry that we now have the ability to treat something that used to kill tens of millions of people every year. It was a primary cause of death was infections that are now treated with just, you know, a Z pack. But that time is coming to a close.

Oh yeah.

Part of the reason is because antibiotics are being used, used in farming. You know, I was just, we, we did an episode about, about the epigenome and actually about dysbiosis and we talked about the fact that you can't get away from, from antibiotics. They're out there. Yeah, you're going to eat, if you're eating store bought chicken and, and beef, you're eating antibiotics. But we're coming to a close on that, on that timing. And I, I say to myself, we've lost all of the things that 100 years ago people knew about how to be careful and how to treat wounds at home so that you didn't just stick a band aid on it, but you managed that wound because you knew that it could kill you. And we're going to exit that island in time and we will have lost all of that. And there's going to come a point where it's going to be. We thought Covid was bad. We thought the Spanish flu was bad bed. Wait until there's generalized antibiotic resistant bugs that get into wounds.

I mean, this is an emergency, right? I mean it's, you know, I actually, I mean in the book I have a whole chapter on the vagus nerve, but I also have an entire chapter. It's called what every Parent and practitioner needs to know about antibiotics. Because in some studies up to 70% of antibiotic prescriptions for kids are inappropriately written up to 70%. Right. And, you know, by 2050, the World Health Organization is predicting that antibiotic resistance will become a leading cause of death. I mean, that's like. With all of our medical advances, could you imagine a simple skin infection or an ear infection or strep throat becoming this deadly thing now? And so, you know, that's where it's so important to learn some more of our, you know, natural tools that we have at hand. That through, I mean, even through the centuries, right? Whether it's, you know, convention, whether it's, you know, passed down through, you know, just centuries of knowledge, or there are some good studies showing, for instance, like garlic ear drops actually can be really effective for ear infections and. And maybe more, in fact, more effective for most ear infections, because, in fact, ear infections typically aren't just bacterial. There's a mix of bacteria and virus and maybe even some yeast in there.

Right.

And guess what? Garlic can get all of that. And so just. Just really, you know, I'm so glad you're bringing that up, because especially for children, this judicious use of antibiotics from a public health standpoint, but also from the fact that it is the most instant acute disruptor of their microbiome. And when you disrupt their gut microbiome, especially in infancy, that disrupts their developing gut immune system connection with increased risk for allergies, eczema, asthma, atopy, it increases the risk of disrupting the gut brain connection with a higher risk of mental health concerns when they're older, kids and teenagers. So if we want to unravel these epidemic, you know, these. With this epidemic of chronic disease in kids, which are largely immune and, you know, neuropsychological problems, we need to think, well, what is going with their gut? And it's true. I mean, even if they're not given oral antibiotics, there's the antibiotics in their food, there's the glyphosate that acts as an antibiotic, and just being really aware, minimizing when we can, and then supporting the growth of a healthier microbiome in all the different ways that we've already been talking about by lowering sugars and reading food labels.

Yeah, this is huge because it can be very easy to listen to this conversation and say, oh, my goodness, there's, like, very little hope. Right. It sounds like we're in such a dreary kind of negative situation that, like, strep is going to become a major killer in 20 years. Where do we start from a rebuilding kind of creating hope, actually having actionable steps. Perspective. I know you, you in your book break down kind of the five steps of supporting the microbiome, getting it back to an optimal level. Let's go through some of initial steps that people can take because there is hope here. We need to know that there is definitely hope. There's always hope.

Otherwise we wouldn't be doing this. Right. And for me, as a pediatrician and as a mom, you have to have hope. I mean, that's just. You have to. You have to be able to picture a different life, a different health outcome for your kids. Otherwise it won't happen. I mean, you have to. You know, they say everything is created twice, you know, and the first first has to be created in your mind. And so we. To have this picture of vibrancy that we're moving towards, and that's one of the first steps is kind of a mindset shift. Because in this time where it can, you know, you scroll on social media, it can be doom and gloom and we're picturing all of these diseases that, oh my gosh, I don't want my kids to have. If you hold that picture of that disease in your mind that you're trying to run away from, it's a different way of living than taking a proactive. I'm moving towards this picture of vibrant health. And so we do. We want to have that knowledge empowerment. And it's got to also be fun. If it's not fun, it's not going to stick. I mean, we all know, like, you try a different diet or you try different sleep devices or ways to optimize, and you're like, it's not fun. I'm not going to do it anymore. Right. I mean, this is for us as adults. And so there's no way we can expect our kids to stick with it. And so everything in the book is really, really meant for families and for kids and not to. And the reason why I call it the five Things for Microbiome Magic and Put it in a Wheel is because with each of these five things, first of all, it doesn't matter where you start. You start with. I always recommend to parents and kids, start with the lowest hanging fruit. I mean, if your kids eat zero vegetables and thinking about getting like one tiny little leaf of spinach on their plate is causing you to have palpitations and, you know, really, then don't do that. There are other things that we can do because everything's going to move the needle forward, move the wheel forward. You just Start one place. And these five things are things that we're already doing every single day. So I also want parents and kids to know, I'm not telling you to add on something else to your day. I'm just asking you to, with knowledge, think about how to make tweaks in how you're doing these things so that you can support your child's microbiome and create that microbiome magic. And so, so we've already spoken a lot about what things you want to keep out. And you know, when I think about, so the five things, how you nourish your microbiome, what you're eating, how you breathe, or you're engaging your vagus nerve, how we're moving our bodies, hydrating and sleeping, right? We have to do all of these things, and many of us are not doing them as well as we could. But if we think about how do we do this in a way to nourish that amazing ecosystem inside of us whose sole purpose really is to keep us healthy and happy. If we keep them healthy and happy, then it puts what we're doing also in a different light. I've had kids kind of had, have a light bulb moment of, yeah, I mean, I take care of the world. We learn about the world ecosystem. And I have this ecosystem inside me. I better take care of that too. So it's not just about making that hedonistic. I want that, you know, rainbow frappuccino. It's like, okay, well how is that going to serve not just me, but also my trillions of tiny friends, right? So nourish is, you know, one part is, what do you learn to keep out? And then, you know, I have these tools to really teach kids and parents how to read food labels. Like a gut hero. Let's be a food label detective and make that fun and make that something that they can do every time they're out with their friends at the grocery store. You know, instead of picking up that bag of Takis chips, right, maybe I'll pick, pick up the siete chips. I can still sit there and have fun with my friends and eat some chips, but it's a little bit of a different decision. But then when we think about what to get in, we want to think about the foods that are really nourishing your microbiome. They need plants. I mean, bottom line, right? They need the fiber, the colors of the phytonutrients and fermented foods. I mean, all of that is going to help preserve and promote microbiome health and so, you know, one of the, you know, I give some tips for picky eating, but one of the tips to make it fun is to have your kids think about how to make each meal pop. So pop, you know, plants on purpose. And so, you know, as I talk about these, you can have a little worksheet and just, you know, breakfast. Okay, what are we going to do to make this pop? And I remember this mom, she wrote me and she said her four year old was listening to something I was talking about and she was making dinner. And she immediately went up to her mom and asked, are we going to make it pop pop? And and did the same thing. Like the next morning she remembered and you know, when dad was making breakfast, she's like, is breakfast gonna pop? And so, you know, we just want things that kind of stick and are fun because making a pop can mean just like one little thing. You're having your oatmeal, maybe you're already putting some blueberries on it and sprinkling some chia seeds. All right, well, how about maybe putting a. Sprinkling a few pumpkin seeds on it? That's one more thing. It's probably in your pantry, right? And just kind of looking to see what we can do. And then, you know, breathe. I mean, that's one of my favorites, right? You know, how do we engage your kid's vagus nerve? I mean, improving heart rate variability has been shown to improve microbiome diversity and function independent of diet. I mean, I love that. Right. And when we think about nervous system regulation and, you know, optimizing heart rate variability. There was one study, it was, I mean, a cardiologist in Germany was looking at heart rate variabilities in kids with ADHD or kids, you know, without, you know, and since like the 80s and found that, you know, nowadays kids in general, whether they have ADHD or not, have lower heart rate variabilities than their historical peers. Right. And that's not that long ago. I mean, that's 40 years ago, 30 years ago, you know, to have, have a drop.

And we're seeing, we're seeing body temperatures drop as well because the mitochondrial, you're not getting as much mitochondrial uncoupling. We're over taxing them with the bad diet and we're not feeding them your gut buddies, as Dr. Gundry calls them, your trillions of friends. In your gut, they are making the short chain fatty acids for you. If you have fiber, if you don't have fiber in your diet, you're not going to be making them your Mitochondria are going to be relying again on the sugars versus fatty acids, and you're going to end up with a lower body temperature. What we want to see is that body temperature start to creep up and get back to where it was normally because the average temperature isn't 98.6 anymore.

It's fascinating. Yep. Yeah.

I want to make certain that we get to this because Dr. Habib and I were talking about this beforehand. I want to share with you the story of my dad. Daughter. So I have. I have four kids. My younger daughter was born about six pounds. The other was. Were all over seven pounds. She had early. She had jaundice, so she had to be in a little, as my wife called it, the hot dog warmer. And. And then, you know, as she grew, she started to experience infant eczema that was. That got progressively worse to the point where she really had pretty severe atopic dermatitis. And then around age five, she started experiencing headaches coupled with stomach aches, like four or five times a week. That would be pretty brutal. I mean, it would make her cry, and she would end up probably at least half the time vomiting. And then after that, she would just literally completely pass out and be. Be out. And I was aware. Aware of what this was and wanted to see what we could do to treat it without having to go, you know, too aggressive. But around age 7, I remember very clearly, my wife was on a business trip and my daughter was in bed trying to go to sleep, and she had eaten the wrong things and she was scratching in her sleep, and she literally cried herself to sleep and saying, why am I like this? What's wrong? And when I picked her up out of. Because she fell asleep in my bed. Picked her up, put her in her bed, she. The sheets literally were speckled with blood from the. From the scratching on the back of her legs. So I called my wife on business trip and I said, we're going to start to use the vagus nerve stimulator that I developed. We're going to start using it on her. And my wife was in favor of it. And within two days, the eczema had cleared up by 90%. Her headaches that she was having four or five times a week, he did not have another one. She had maybe had one for the remainder of the year. But the thing that I found so fascinating was at the time that we started, her teachers were telling us that she was a little slow, and I didn't believe that. What I hadn't anticipated was as she began using the vagus nerve stimulator and as it was correcting all of the inflammatory problems that I thought were physical, physical issues, it was having an effect on her brain development in a way that was so profound that I'm telling you, she will tell you. And I have witnessed as her father now over the last seven years an unbelievable transformation cognitively. She is, I mean, she's now a freshman in high school, just starting her freshman year and she's taking practice SAT tests and scoring like 1500s. Okay, she is, she took four years of math in two years. She was the valedictorian of her, of the school that she's at. And so I'm just, I'm sharing the story because all of the things that you're talking about, deep breathing, getting your gut microbiome functioning properly, it's going to have a cognitive benefit benefit that I don't think even as scientists we're fully appreciating why it works. I think we have a, you know, some of us have a pretty good idea, but I think the general community doesn't even understand. And getting that cognitive benefit is making what I said at the beginning, I want my kids happy, healthy and smart. And I think what we're realizing is if you do the first two, you're going to get the last one also.

Yeah, well, and that's why where one thing, and one of the reasons why I like to talk about the science too, behind the vagus nerve and heart rate variability for kids and for teenagers and for parents is because, I mean a lot of kids nowadays in the States, they have a socio emotional learning class, an SEL class where they're doing yoga and they're breathing and they're doing all the things. But it's often the class that a lot of kids kind of roll their eyes at or like, oh, it's time to, that's time when I can just go to sleep or gab with my friends. And so it's put on this other plane of oh, it's just to be happy, it's just for your mind. Right. But when you understand that, what I tell kids and teenagers and parents is, look, the reason why we do this work, the reason why we want to support your vagus nerve is multifold. And the fact that you feel good and calm and peaceful after afterwards, that's amazing. But that's really a positive side effect of it. The real reason is because it lowers chronic inflammation. It balances your blood sugar, it regulates your hormones, it helps your brain work better. I mean, all These other things that, you know, sure, you feel good, but all these other things are happening on the inside. And that's why we do it. You know, we might do it in the immediate moment because we feel stressed and anxious, but we have to remember that, you know, stress is not a bad thing. It's just when it's kind of, you know, perpetual and chronic. And so getting, learning how to engage that, that, you know, stress regulation response is really important. So it's gotta be put on a different plane. Because then too, you know, when you, when you're doing this work and, and let's say, I mean, I've had kids where, you know, that psychological stressor is the main trigger for their eczema flare. Right. But then what's a complex common response? Oh, then it's just in your head. Right. And it's like. No, it is. It is so real. And it is. And this is, this is why we want to not separate out the mind and the body.

Absolutely. There is no separation. I mean, we know that inflammation, if you inject inflammatory media into the gut and even just into the interperineal space, not into the actual digestion, digestive tract, you will cause inflammation in the central nervous system. In fact, you, you can actually cause animals that, that have seizures to have a seizure. You can trigger a seizure simply by making peripheral inflammation. So what we have to see is there's, there's no dichotomy between the brain and the body. They are the same thing. And we have to just, you know, we have to treat your body in part because you're treating your, your brain. And we have to remember that everything we perceive, everything we experience in life is experienced inside our brains. That's where we are perceiving things. And so everything you're doing to fix your body, by definition, is going to fix your brain.

Yeah. And that's why we have to move and sleep and manage our microbiome and do all of these wonderful five things that you've listed in the book, at least to, to ensure that we are working towards creating that optimal health and that optimal child who will develop into an optimal functioning adult who is resilient and capable and able to then go and pass those wonderful tools on to the next generation and the next generation, because what we need to do, and I appreciate this conversation, is the subject of the conversation is pediatrics. But in reality, it comes down to the pair of parents. The parents are the ones that are putting out this information. The parents are the ones that are teaching. And we need to empower ourselves. I remember when I was doing, we were learning how to sleep train our kids, and my sleep trainer said, this isn't for your kids, this is for you. You need to learn what you need to do to help teach your child how to stay in their bed all night, how to ensure that they get their good sleep. You need to work on yourself in order to create those positive changes. So all of these, these insights, all of these amazing tidbits that we've had in this little over an hour, wonderful podcast so far are for the parents. They're for people to understand where the common triggers are, where the common sources of negative stress are, biochemical stress, physical stress, emotional psychological stress, and to change something about it. We may not be changing it entirely, but we're going to create the initial positive steps to put us on the right trajectory towards creating that optimal health pattern. And I think that's what I'm taking from today's conversation, because as a parent, I know that everything I do for me comes down to how do I want my kids to experience this? How do I want my grandkids to eventually experience this? What is the information that I can pass on, the wisdom that I can gain that will then be passed on generation and generation down? So health is wealth. We know that. And if we can help create that healthy environment for our kids, I think that's the most important thing. Anything to conclude that there.

I was just going to add one thing to it, which is remember that your kids are going to. Are going to remind you as your kids get older, they're going to remind you that it's if. If you try to say, do as I say, not as I do, they're not going to listen. Okay? What you have to do is show them. And I can tell you if you're. If we've got one parent who's talking about this and is promoting it and is saying, you know, have to have a good diet, you have to exercise, and you have another parent's not. They're gonna. They're gonna recognize that that's kids. Kids know how to find that wedge between the parents where they're not in agreement and they exploit it. Okay? So you have to be unified as parents, and you also have to exhibit it yourself because they're going to pick out that you're, hey, dad, you're not living up to what you told me to do. So if you're not going to do it, why should I do it? But if you tell them and then you back it up, by saying, hey, this is what I do. See, you know, you're doing, you're ordering crumble cookie. I tell you not to, but you're ordering it. But I'm not coming down and eating your crumble, crumble cookie. Okay. I'm sitting here and I'm having, you know, I'm having sauteed broccoli. Okay. I'm having, you know, I'm eating pumpkin seeds. You know, if I want a snack, I'm having some pumpkin seeds and some pistachios. Okay. I'm not having, you know, I'm eating, you know, a cheese plate and you're having, you know, pizza. Okay. That's not a cheese plate just because it has cheese on it. Okay. So that's, that would be my 2 cents, you know, for the parents. Live up to, live up to the things you're telling them to do.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, that the, this really, it really is a family affair. And you know, just as, and it's so fascinating how we can often see the bigger blocks in other people than we can see in ourselves. And so, you know, if your kids do call you out or your partner, then, you know, understand. Okay. That's an opportunity for me to improve. And it is so much about us as parents learning how to regulate, learning how to, you know, take care of ourselves. Because that co regulation piece is so key. I mentioned that briefly before but you know, even for babies, when, when a baby's first born, if they're a little cold and you have them skin to skin, your body temperature automatically increases to warm up. Your baby's temperature same, your heart rates will start to co regulate. So there's something such a, such a bond there. And you know it for sure, of course, moms and their babies, but even with dads and their children and so you can feel energetically in the room. Right. I mean your, your kids know as soon as you walk in the door, if you, even if you haven't said a word and you're trying to hold it together but you had the worst day ever, they immediately can tell by how you're vibrating, like, oh, okay, we're going to stay away from mom right now. But by the same token, if they are, are escalating like this and we can stay centered and regulated, then we help them co regulate with us. So it really, it's about doing this together as a family.

I love that. Where can people learn more about you, your educational platform online and your book?

Yeah, so my book Healthy Kids, Happy Kids is available pretty Much everywhere books are sold. I mean, United States and Canada. It is coming out in Australia in November. So different countries are getting at different times. But, but it's widely available. I mean, most people buy their books on Amazon, but you support your local indie bookstores if you can. And so, and then my online platform is HealthyKidShappyKids.com where I do a lot of workshops and masterclasses, give a lot of free information. And I'm most active on Instagram, which is healthykidshappykids. And again, I'm there kind of to post, but I really do my best to not, you know, doom scroll and just really, really have the intent, like this is for me. And then trying to model, model it with my kids who don't have social media. And I have no plans for them to have social media anytime soon. They're. They're almost 15 and 13. But, but before you get on, like, click that, that purple and pink square. Just set the intention. What am I. What is my goal for doing this right now? Is it to post, you know, do I want five minutes of mindless scrolling? That's okay. Then set the timer for five minutes. Right. Or is it to, you know, just see what my friends are up to because I haven't spoken with them for so long. But set the intention so that you're not all of a sudden an hour and a half later in bed, you know, with the screen in front of you.

What those, the way the algorithms work is what you click on is what they'll find. Feed you. It's just like what, it's just like what you, you are, what you eat. You're going to get fed what you click on. So be careful. If you're clicking on things about health and about how to, how to be a better athlete or a better student, if you're clicking on those things, that's what the feed will give you. If you're always clicking on, you know, some Instagram model or, or other nonsense, you're going to end up getting that switcher feed. So you're not really going to get anything from it. And remember, you're the product. Make certain that you're getting something in return for you being their product.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. For some reason, I get fed a lot of baby monkeys.

Then imagine why.

I love it. Wonderful. Well, this was an amazing conversation and thank you so much for joining us, Elisa, for all the links, you can check out the show notes and we'll get that out to everyone. And I would love for us to just if you got to this point in the podcast and you're still listening, please share this with one person who you think could benefit from hearing this powerful information. One parent, one friend, Somebody who could really have a positive shift occur in their life. And that way we can spread this information far and wide. So thank you so much again, Melissa, for joining us, and we'll see you all in the next one. Wishing you all upgraded health.

Sam.