Taking On The Status Quo Through Coaching With Magdalena Mook

Welcome to beyond you'd why Podcast, where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually help you discover and then live your why. You see, we believe that knowing your why, that driving force behind every decision you make and every action you take, is the essential first step to really knowing yourself. It allows you to move forward faster and have a bigger impact. If you're already a fan of the show, then you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys, and then we introduce you to somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. This show will be more powerful for you if you've already discovered your why. If you still need to do that, head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. It'll only take you about five minutes. Now, let's meet today's guest.

Welcome to beyond you'd why Podcast, where we go beyond just talking about your why and actually helping you discover and and then live your why. So if you're a regular listener, you know that every week we talk about one of the nine whys, and then we bring on somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. And so this week we are going to be talking about the why of challenge. To challenge the status quo and think differently. So if this is your why, then you don't believe in following the rules or drawing inside the lines. You want things to be fun and exciting and different. You rebel against the classic way of doing things. You typically have eccentric friends and eclectic tastes because after all, why would you want to be normal? You love to be different, think different. And you aren't afraid to challenge virtually anyone or anything that is too conventional or typical for your tastes. Pushing the envelope comes naturally to you. And so today I have got a great guest for you. Her name is Magdalena Mook. Magdalena brings experience in fundraising, coaching and consulting and associate management. Currently, she offers her vision and strategic direction as the CEO of International Coaching Federation ICF, where she acts as a partner to the ICF's global board of directors since 2005. Magdalena previously worked with the Council of State Governments and as the Assistant Director of National Policy and Director of Development. Magda is a trained professional coach and systems facilitator. Magda is a frequent speaker on trends in coaching and leadership development, regulation, ethics and social progress. Magdalena received her Ms. In Economics and International Trade from the Warsaw School of Economics in Poland. In 2019, Magda was recognized as the number one coach global influence by Marshall Goldsmith's Thinker 50 and was a finalist for the Thinker 50 distinguished award in coaching and mentoring. In 2021, she was recognized as a top three 30 global gurus in organization culture. Magda, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, Gary. I'm very excited to be here.

This is going to be fun. So anytime I get a chance to talk to somebody with your why, I know it's going to be fun. So take us back now. Where did you grow up? Tell us a little bit about your childhood, where you grew up, and then how you ended up getting to the US Because I know you have a little bit of an accent.

Just a little bit. Yes. Yeah. I was born and raised in Poland. I lived in Poland until the age of 28 when I moved to the United States permanently. Although I've been traveling the world. I studied in Copenhagen. I lived in Kuwait for a little while. 26 years ago, I did move to the United States. And it was part of a job situation living in Poland at the time when the Iron Curtain went down, the Berlin Wall went down, and there was a time that the United States and especially usaid was putting quite a lot of resources into helping build Polish economy. And this is how I got my very first job still in college. I worked for Economic Research Service. And then because of that job, I frankly moved to the United States.

Okay, so take us back to high school for you. What were you like in high school? Or should I say, what would your mother say you were like?

Oh, you don't want to talk to my mother about those years. They were not the most pleasant years for either of us. Well, I think I was always known in high school as well as a good friend, and I was always up for doing something, getting a little trouble. Little trouble. I was very responsible.

But, yeah, already then I think I was just maybe not challenging, but testing certain boundaries that obviously existed for young people of the age. That was at that time.

Did you like to follow the rules or did you kind of like to create your own rules?

You know, bending the rules was probably my specialty. And it was like, well, yes, but. Or as I learned later with coaching. Yes. And, you know, could we do it a little bit differently, really? Do we need to be back at 10? Can it be 10, 30 maybe? So little testing of what's possible was probably already budding then, if not earlier.

So when did you first realize, if you were to look back, when do you think you first realized that maybe you didn't think exactly like everybody else? Maybe you had a little bit different perspective, or just maybe you didn't want to do things the same way everybody else wanted to do them.

I was extremely lucky growing up in a family where critical thinking was the way that we did things. So I was never told by my mom or dad because I say so, or at least I don't remember, or, you know, because I'm your mother, you're gonna do it that way. It was always like, okay, why do you want to do it differently? Or why? You know, what's preventing you from doing exactly what I asked you to do? So. So I don't. I don't think it was a very quick realization because for me, that was a norm to have a conversation. I didn't necessarily look at it as rebellion. It was like, no, I'm just asking questions. We're having a conversation again. That's why you don't want to talk to my mom about the high school.

How did you find her?

But I think. And also later in college, I was extremely lucky to have professors and teachers who were encouraging a little bit of that different way of looking at things or, okay, here's the. Here's the problem. How are we going to solve it? So I think maybe it was later when I started actually working, working when some things came with, and this is how we do things. And I was like, wow, quite. Doesn't make sense. Of course, the next realization was, if I don't think it makes sense, what does make sense to me? I need to have a good plan to offer in. In place of what I considered not being the best solution available.

So what did your parents think maybe you should do with your life or where you should go versus where you ended up going?

Actually, I probably. No, probably. I definitely owe it to my dad that I ended up where I ended up because I had some very entertaining ideas about what I want to do in life. Wonderful memory. But my best friend in high school, her parents were archaeologists. So every summer I would go for at least a month on the dig. And it was just awesome. It was absolutely fantastic. And what do you know? I wanted to be an archaeologist, right? Until this friend's dad sat me down saying, you realize that there are many archaeologists and very few sites that are actually being explored, right? And it was like, huh, okay, so maybe that's not the best idea. And then I had a couple of other phenomenal ideas of that nature as well. So, frankly, by the time that I needed to make a choice for college, I wasn't so sure. I wasn't sure. So sure. So I sat down with my parents and my dad said, well, you like math, you like logic, you like all this good stuff? How about economics? And I'm like, ew, that's boring. That's plain boring. But then he said, well, yeah, okay, but that could prepare you for just about anything else you want to do. Which I ended up with international trade and international relations, which is fascinating and still is fascinating for me. So of course at that age you don't want to agree with your parents. So I think I put something fight, but ultimately decided to pursue that line of education anyway.

Okay, so you're graduated now from Warsaw School of Economics in Poland. Your first job was what?

That depends what we're talking about. Because I was, you know, working the archaeological digs was probably my first work. You know, I was paid for being and being a helper on the camp and I did some, you know, odd jobs through college, of course. But first, first real.

I also did this degree in Copenhagen on international management and consulting. So my very first job was the project manager for the Economic Research Service of US Department of Agriculture. Wow.

Who would have guessed that, huh? How'd you like it?

I loved it. I loved it because first of all, I had quite a lot of autonomy being a challenger, so. Quite a lot of autonomy. Do not. You know, it was not lost on me that my bosses were in Washington D.C. and I was in Warsaw, Poland. And that allowed me. They also were really open for me to offer ideas because of my knowledge of a Polish situation and marketplace and just help design ways of implementing this assistance programs in a best way so they became sustainable and long lasting. I had great colleagues to work with. I had quite a nice support group coming from my employers. So yeah, I thought it was very, very fun.

Okay, and so from there you went to what? Tell us your next step and then how did you end up getting into coaching? Because were you a coach first before you got involved with icf?

No, just it was the other way around. So after, after the Economic Research Service, I actually joined forces with the Council Governments, which is a not for profit organization that represents all three branches of US state level government. And I enter that space through my connections, if you will.

With the US federal government. Because CSG at this point was administering a program merging the expertise in environmental sciences on the state side with the needs of Southeast Asia. And I used, I used to work with USAID a lot, so, so that was, that was a nice conduit, if you will, for me to find that job with csg. And then I Moved in different positions within csg. But my first love, I guess always been international, anything. So this is where how I ended up with coaching. And it was because international Coaching federation at that point was looking for the assistant executive director. And in particular the interest was in somebody with international expertise. So here I came to ICF and I was familiar with coaching, but only by hearing about it, reading about it, being somewhat interested in it, and then through ICF first. My first experience, direct experience with coaching, was to have a coach, which honestly I recommend to anybody and everybody because it was very impactful for me to work with the coach. And ultimately I became trained as a coach and assistance facilitator.

So your first coach, was it mainly to get you to understand what it is like to have a coach or was it something that you were working on and this coach came along and helped you reach that next level?

I think it was a little bit of both because, you know, as any executive in any organization, you always have a long list of things you need to do. And at that point we were really trying to grow ICF as an organization. When I first joined, you know, ICF had about 8,000 members. We were becoming more global. By now we have 45,000 members. So there was a way to go. Right. And I think that the leaders of the organization always, always had the belief that, that this is a profession to grow. So yeah, I needed some support from a coach to help me chart that territory. But at the same time, I thought it was only appropriate for me to be an executive for the coaching organization to know what coaching is, how coaching is done, and what impact coaching has on an individual utilizing that service.

So when you took, when did you take over as the CEO?

Excellent question, I want to say. So I started with ICF in 2005 and I think it must have been 11 or 12 when I became a CEO.

Okay, so you've been CEO now for let's say eight years. Eight or nine years. So what has been the biggest changes now that you've seen within ICF from the time you took over to, to where you are now?

There would be a different questions between what are the changes within ICF vis a vis, what are the changes within coaching industry? And some of them are of course parallel because we try to be responsive to the needs of the profession. Well, one humongous change to ICF is that we are way bigger, as I said when I first started, 8,000 members, 45,000 members right now. We were predominantly North American when I first started. Right now, less Than half of our membership is in North America and that includes Canada. When I got hired, there were five of us staff members. We are 85 now. So the scale and scope of the organization really changed. ICF offers credentials for individual coach practitioners. We had about 1,000 credential coaches. We are at 35,000 right now.

I think the growth of ICF mimics or reflects the growth of the coaching profession. And when we look at this angle, coaching started as more of a life and vision enhancement. It quickly find its way to business, then public sector and now social progress sector.

We saw the advent of internal coaching in addition to external coaching, team coaching supervision. Mentoring. Coaching is really expanding and ICF as an organization is trying to be a little bit ahead and sometimes we find ourselves behind to catch up quickly and be a resource, relevant resource for our members and clients alike.

Yeah, I know if I look at my own life, when I've had the most growth, when I've had the most move, the fastest, is when I've had a coach. And then you, then you look back.

And you think, now why the heck.

Did I stop having a coach? What was I thinking? Because you make these big strides and they, oh, I got it from here. Okay, I got it. And then you go back and you're like, okay, now I need another coach again. And maybe that's just typical. Is that kind of what you see?

There are different ways, of course, people approach it. Most people, yes, it is quite typical. You, you have some issue you're working on and then you hire a coach, you work your plan out, you have your accountability partner and then you're good to go. And frankly, that's how it should work. But then you may come into yet another opportunity or a hurdle that you may need that very independent, very non biased mirror to help you work through these issues and help you find the best solution for you. From the perspective of a coaching profession, we also think that it's healthy to have that separation because otherwise you may develop certain level of dependency and that's not good for either party. Having said that, there are many coaches who have clients for years and years and years and they may not hear from them for a year or two. But then when they call it's like, okay, let's do it. Or recently.

Fairly fast growing trend. It's the laser coaching. So say you and I work in a coaching relationship for some time and we are not in a, in a general, you know, relationship, coaching relationship anymore. But once every blue moon I call you saying, Listen, in 30 minutes I have to answer this email and I have no idea what to say.

Would you help me go through it? So this is very specific, very focused and less of a traditional cadence of the coaching session or coaching relation.

So for the listeners, what's the difference between coach, consultant and a mentor?

We still hear this question fairly frequently, which I thank you for that because hopefully we can help some people. Coaching is defined by ICF as a partnering relationship in a thought provoking manner that allows an individual to reach their highest professional and personal potential. That term partnership is really important in here. There is no hierarchy here. Who's more important, if you will? The coach being an expert in in coaching process is not an expert necessarily in a field that the client represents or certainly her or his life. Typically with the consulting engagement, you bring a specialist who is coming, assessing the issue, giving you their solution and they leave. Coach helps you build that roadmap from where you are to where you want to be and then stays with you for some time as an accountability partner to make sure that you're actually doing it. We all heard about even best consultants, you know, leaving behind certain reports that never ever left that shelf ever again and only collected dust. Right. And with mentoring, very important modality I think, but it is a different relationship. Typically there is this more experienced expert colleague who shares her or his experiences advice.

With a person who is still finding their way in their profession. Coach does not give advice. Coach does not tell you what to do. Coach may share knowledge they have absolutely. But coach is more of a partner and catalyzer for a client to find answers to their solutions.

So what is it that qualifies somebody to be a coach?

One has to be trained. ICF is the standard setting organization in coaching profession. And our primary base is of course our definition of coaching, but also the core coaching competencies and one of them is ethics. So also code of ethics, very important part of our offering. So in order to be a professional coach, one needs to be trained in this coaching process and the competencies. It is true that coaching is not regulated. So anybody can call themselves a coach. We started using on purpose a term professional coach to distinguish a little bit from people. This is a fashionable name these days. So you know, a little bit of an advice to our listeners to always ask about training credentials belonging to professional body before you make a hiring decision.

Yeah, it really does make a difference because you don't know what you're getting. Of course it's that way with any profession, any business. You really don't know. And coaching is Pretty new, right? When did coaching really kind of become invoked?

You know, some say that it comes from ancient Greece. But leaving that aside, just thinking about ICF as an organization and some of our sister organizations, we're talking mid-90s, where ICF itself was created in 1995. So that was the time when coaching started taking some position in the marketplace and started making some waves, if you will. So, yeah, it is a young profession. And as you said, sometimes when we hire in any professional, we need to do due diligence. And that's true. However, say you hiring a lawyer or a doctor, you know that they finished their training, otherwise they wouldn't be a lawyer or a doctor. Practicing lawyer doctor. With coaching, it's not necessarily that way. So ICF requires individuals to be coach trained before they are even eligible to be members.

So when you look back and you think about the first time you heard somebody say, hey, I am a coach, what did you think?

Well, we can't be so righteous about the term because we borrowed it from another profession. Having said that, if you go to the origins of the term coach, it actually is one of these big buses these days. But in old days, the coach, it was a way of moving from point A to point B. And that frankly, what coaching is helping somebody to come from point A to point B. For the longest time, at my early years with icf, we very frequently when somebody would say coach, they would be like, oh, what discipline? Like sports? If not, that was. But, oh, these big buses. Yes. And even then, I remember that we often spoke more about what coaching was not than what coaching was. Because much to your earlier question was like, oh, it's consulting. Yes. No, it's canceling, yes. No. Must be therapy.

No.

So that no, no, no, no, no. Was more prominent than talking about what coaching is. Fortunately, it's very different these days.

When people say, I'm a professional coach or executive coach or life coach. Oh, yeah, yeah.

So when I was getting ready to talk with you, I went on Google and I googled your name and these videos came up. And I watched you in a video. And so I knew that your why was challenge. And typically challenge people are more expressive and want to have fun. And I saw a couple videos of you and you were very serious. Look like, yeah, it was. Well, it was during. It might have been at the beginning of the pandemic. And so then I started to think, huh, it doesn't seem like she's as free and fun as I was expecting. But then when we've got on the call here today, I've seen the real side of you come forward.

Well, you know, there is certain responsibility, of course, being the CEO of the very large organization, and especially at the beginning of the pandemic, it was not just that our members were hurting and they were hurting.

But their families, their livelihoods, their entire countries were in difficult circumstance. So I think that that called for a little more serious tone in those presentations.

Yeah.

But I'm glad we got a chance to talk ahead of time so that I got to confirm that. And so you're definitely. Are you able to in regular day, you know, in a typical day, are you able to challenge things? Are you able to bring that fun? Are you able to bring that excitement, that possibilities, imagining things that we can do, build on what we've been doing, not play by the rules, not fit into the mold. Has that been, have you been able to live that as the CEO?

Yes. And I owe it to two things. One is the board of directors. So the leadership of the organization. That. And as you can imagine for coaches, that challenging status quo is not an unusual things. Right. And second, that I have a very talented team that is very willing to play that way. Many of us believe that the first idea, it may still be the best idea, but we have to challenge and poke around it just to be sure that we took things into consideration, that we are looking at things through an unusual lens. That is only way to come to the best solution or to the level of execution that we are willing and able to do. And just being a little bit funny here, but being CEO, you create some of these rules so.

I can create the rules that there are no rules.

So share with us a story of where you challenged the way things were done, where you thought differently, where people were saying this is the way we have to do it, and then you were able to think differently.

So the really big one that comes to mind is that for quite a long time we operated ICF operated.

As the organization for and of professional coaches. However, when you looked into the beginnings of icf, the purpose was to promote coaching profession and looking broader. So as we, as we started growing bigger with membership and everything, as we offered credentials, as we offer coach training, I was thinking this is we are limiting ourselves by our own design, we are limiting ourselves. My probably biggest shift happened when based on research, we do a lot of research, often partnering with other organizations. That particular one was done with the PricewaterhouseCoopers. And we noticed that the fastest growing part of a coaching continuum is leaders and managers utilizing Coaching skills in their style of managing, by our own definitions of who is a member. We didn't have space for those people in icf. Nothing, nothing for them. And we also started seeing that more and more corporations were picking up coaching, utilizing coaching, building coaching cultures. Again, we had nothing for them. So we were thinking, or I was thinking, it's like, well, this is an accelerator.

This is not even an incubator. This is an accelerator of how coaching is being perceived in the world and we don't have a say. That's not okay.

So this is why I proposed the transformation of our organization to focus on six very specific areas and create the influence of a coaching profession in a much greater way than it has been done before. It was not an easy project, It's a multi year project, it's not inexpensive, and it was definitely doing things differently.

How was it received?

I think originally when I presented the concept to the board, there was a great excitement about it. And then, as you know, the devil is in the detail. So it took us quite a long time, literally a couple, if not three years, to iron out more details and specifics. Because after all, the board, being the fiduciary for the organization, had to know that this is a viable proposition and we can afford it. We can actually become even bigger if we do it. And we did.

That's awesome. So what is your vision then, Magda, for icf? Where do you want to see it go in the next five years, next 10 years?

I would like, for coaching, and therefore ICF, being a spokesperson, if you will, for coaching to be truly recognized as a viable, systemic solution to a lot of issues that we are facing right now. My staff will probably roll their eyes when they hear it, but I've been known for banging on the table saying, I want us at Davos, and I do, I want us to sit at that table and be a partner in developing solutions for individuals, organizations, systems, countries, regions, the planet. So I want coaching to be fully recognized for a profession it is and fully accepted and embedded.

In just about everyday life. As our mission will tell you, coaching being integral, part of a thriving society. There are two for me, super important words. One is integral and second, thriving.

So it is, in my opinion, coaching is a tremendous opportunity for people to become their best selves and the best is defined by them and therefore our entire environment being more productive, being more healthy and peaceful. So I want, for icf, I want the voice. I want the voice.

The voice.

So why do you think coaching has been so effective?

What do you think it is about.

Coaching that makes it so viable, makes it so useful.

There is a lot of research from the neuroscience perspective that would tell you a lot around that. And I am not a neuroscientist, so I will not even pretend that I can tell you more about it. But there are certain brain chemistries that are explaining how coaching works. But I think that ultimately we know from psychology and other research, then when we're told what to do, we almost immediately don't like that idea. And either quietly or otherwise, we try to do something different or not to do it. Passive aggressive. So coaching gives the voice to a person. Coaching invites the voice of the person and allows her or him to try to find the way that only they know is best. With a challenge, with the nudge, with support, whatever it is, whatever may be needed. But at the end, when the solution is being arrived at, you as a client already bought into it. So the possibility that you actually going to implement it is significantly greater because of that. This is at the individual level and at the organizational level. It is bringing people together with unified mission, unified goal, and helping everybody find appropriate role that they play in that endeavor. And again, giving the voice. Nowadays we're talking about the needed, not necessarily just because of a pandemic, but definitely as an outcome as well is a need for a different type of leadership. And that one of the traits of this new leadership is self awareness. Coaching is another great tool to help people become more self aware and therefore being more empathetic, therefore being more open not to always have to have an answer, but instead involving others in creating solutions.

That's great.

We talk about that a lot as well. You know, the first step in performing at the highest level is self awareness. And the first step in self awareness is knowing your why. Because until you know that it doesn't have as you know, you could talk about how you're going to do something all day long, but if you don't know why you're doing it, doesn't have as much impact.

Indeed.

And so. Well, last question I'm going to ask you.

All right, I'm ready. I think I'm bracing up.

What is the best piece of advice that you have ever given or the best piece of advice that you've ever gotten?

Let's start with the piece of advice I've ever gotten. And two people come to mind. One is my late great grandmother who would say, child, be good to yourself. If you're not good to yourself, you can't be good to anybody else.

It took me Ages to understand what she was talking about. But. But I found it very, very profound.

And maybe a little bit on the heels of the same, of the same advice was my also late father who said, do whatever you want. Just have fun and be good at it.

That fits you perfectly.

Yeah. Speaks to a challenge, right?

Yes.

And the one that I given, well, that, that's definitely in the eye of a beholder, I'll say. So we will have to ask those four people who were talking to me. But I think, I think, and this is very much my way of thinking is don't be afraid of just trying things.

Don't come from the perspective of fear. Don't be, don't be, you know, do your due diligence, but don't be afraid of little experimentation because otherwise how do you know what's on the other side of that mirror? Right.

Yeah.

That's awesome. And those fit perfectly with the why of challenge.

Can leave it behind me, huh?

Yeah. You know, we have a mutual friend in Paul Allen and he mentioned something, when I asked him that question, he said something similar to what you're saying, which was don't take advice from somebody who doesn't think like you. And I thought I had never heard that before, but it really makes a lot of sense because if they don't think like you, what advice they give you probably won't work for you.

You know, that's really quite true. And yet I would challenge it a little bit saying do seek advice of somebody who doesn't think like you because they may bring the aspect or an angle of the situation that I would never think about because I don't want to think about it. And they would. I don't have to take their advice, but, but I would, I would probably seek their advice here and there just to test the concept, just to test if I'm on the right track.

So since your wise challenge and I said that was my last question for you, it's not going to be my last question for you because it made me think of one more thing.

Do you tell us about, I mean, not about a specific, but your friends and the people that are in your circle, are they all similar or do you have a very diverse type of group that you do things with, hang out with? What is that like for you?

You know, if we start even looking into a staff of icf, even if you tried, you would not put the more eclectic group of people that we have. We have every walk of life and that's one of the greatest joy of that Team.

In our job description, you have to have sense of humor, otherwise you're not going to survive it. And as far as my friends, I would say, you know, again, depends on the definition. Yeah, they have something in common. They are. They're a little bit on the crazy side, all of them. But. But no, I would say there are people who are willing. They are willing to test, willing to challenge, willing to. And take it exactly as it's offered, not as some kind of a bad intention or anything of that. That nature. So, yeah, I have artists, painters, writers, dancers, musicians.

Why do you have such an eclectic group of friends and such an eclectic group of people at icf? Why is that important to you?

I take energy from being in the diverse environment.

I love learning from them. I love learning with them. And it just offers, I think, through them, through their lens, I'm expanding my own horizons quite significantly. Just knowing what's out there, just knowing it's possible.

I love that.

I asked that same question to another gentleman that has your. Why? He's one of the world's leading economists of all things. He writes a weekly email newsletter to millions of people trying to tell them what's going on in the world. And I asked him that same question. He said, well, the reason I have such an eclectic group of friends is because if I only look at what's going on from my own eyes, then that's all I see. But if I look at it from all these other angles, I get to see the real picture. And if my job is to tell the world what's really going on, it can't just be from my own eyes.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. And you know, to me, it's just fun. It's just fun to see this different perspective. And just saying, like, I would never thought of that. But that's interesting.

That's awesome.

Well, Magda, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with me. And I have enjoyed getting to know you, getting to hear your story, getting to see your smile since I didn't see it on the other picture and video. And so it is good to see that challenge definitely does come true. Well, you know what? I hate to do this again, but now every time I am about to let you go, something else comes into my mind that I have to ask you. Because one of the challenges that somebody with the YF Challenge has is in being an employee. They make great visionaries, but I don't know that they make good employees. What do you think about that? Are you a good employee?

Or are you a. Yeah, let's.

I'm a fantastic employee. What do you mean? No, there is something very true to that. And as I said, you know, my very first job, I was my kind of own boss. And that probably spoiled me even more into the challenge category. And then thinking of my job track record, I fairly quickly was able to raise to the level of being just about my own boss. And, you know, only the chairman of the board was.

About me. So.

You know, I actually do love people who are challenging me on our staff. In fact, I invite them. I said, guys, I love to be wrong. Just you have to convince me that I'm wrong and we're good to go with whatever you're proposing.

I love it.

So I maybe not being myself, the best of employees, I very much.

Invite and truly appreciate when the challenge is coming my way.

No, I love it.

Okay, now I'm going to let you go.

As soon as I get ready to let you go, something pops in my head and I got to ask her. I got to ask her. So. But thank you so much for being here. If there are people that are listening, because I know there will be a lot of coaches listening to this as well and they want to get involved with icf, what should they do? What's the process? If they want to get involved in touch with you, maybe to speak with you, what would be the best way to do that?

Sure. I would like to invite everybody to Visit our website, coachingfederation.org you can find a lot about ICF, a lot about coaching, including a micro site. Become a coach that talks to. What does it take to be a coach? And not only how to get trained, but also what it means to run a coaching business.

And they can learn about different aspects of coaching. And same for the clients. We do have the coach referral service, Credential Coach Finder, it's called. So if somebody is looking to engage a coach, they can also read about what to expect from a coaching conversation. And last but not least, they can definitely find my email. It's very conspicuous. Magda.mockingachingfederation.org and I'll be very happy to speak to anybody who's interested in coaching, has observations, have opinions, whatever that might be. That's another belief of mine, that if we're not listening, we don't know.

I love it. Magda, thanks so much for being here. I look forward to staying in touch as we go on our journeys.

Thanks so much, Gary. It was fun.

So it's time for our new segment which is guess the why. And today we're going to be talking about the why of famous person of Tiger Woods. So what do you think? Tiger woods why is everybody knows him, most famous athlete, current athlete, got in locked, was an amazing golfer very early on, became the top golfer in the world, had some problems, kept changing his swing. So think about that. He kept changing his swing. And there's a lot of people that say that if Tiger woods had just kept his original swing, the one he got to number one with, the one that he won so many tournaments, so many majors with, then he went and tried to make it better. And he made it better, he thought, and then he tried to make it better again. And multiple times in his career he changed his swing in an effort to make it better.

And then he ended up getting hurt. And then he had all the marital.

Issues, maybe that was looking for a better way. And now he's trying to come back and he's always, he's having a lot of problems right now with his health and he just had that car wreck. So what do you think his why is? I believe his why is to find a better way, share it. That's what I believe. I believe he's always in search of a better way and that can get people like myself in trouble if we're always looking for a better way. And so I want to thank you for listening. If you've not yet discovered your why, make sure you go to whyinstitute.com you can use the code PODCAST50 to do it at half price. If you love the beyond, you'd why podcast 50. Please don't forget to give us a review or rating on whatever platform you're using so that we can bring the why to more and more people. Thank you. And I will hear you and see or and I'll be back next week. Thank you.

I really hope you enjoyed today's episode and that through today's guest, you heard how important it is to know your why and how impactful it can be in your life and the lives of those around you. Be sure to head over to whyinstitute.com and discover your why today. Remember, the more you know about yourself, the more you'll know about others. I'm Dr. Gary Sanchez and I'll see you on the next episode.