WHY Not Wednesday with Dora Lutz

There's a certain kind of coach who believes what we believe.

Who leads people to greatness, who gets people unstuck, who unlocks all of your passion. A coach who helps people discover what drives them to tap into their superpowers. Then knowing your why is the first step.

To untap potential.

To focus.

To breakthroughs.

A coach who's looking for a better way.

Are you that coach?

Hello, and welcome to why Not Wednesday. I am so excited to introduce you guys to Dora Lutz. She is someone that we met through our friends at the People Forward Network. She's the founder of Giving Spring, and boy, I've got a great introduction for her. So I'm just going to read it because there's so much there. And Dora, you do so much. She's the author of the Aspirational Business, the obviously the founder of Giving Spring and creator the course Business Planning for Social Entrepreneurs at Purdue University. So from her earliest days managing truck drivers through the creation of her second business, Dora has devoted her career to understanding the unique ways that businesses can make a positive impact on society and helping leaders accomplish their biggest goals. So Dora has worked with small businesses, Fortune 100 companies, nonprofits, and even the United Nations Impact 2030 program to leverage business models that create sustainable revenue sources and incredible social impact. And that's so important. Welcome to the show, Dora.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here today.

I'm so excited you're here. You know, this is such a great topic that we're going to talk about today, and we're going to get into it, but I wouldn't be doing my job if we don't start with the thing that we always start with first, and that is, hey, let's talk about your yos. And let's, you know, there's a bunch of people that commented early and often, so let's start with them. Danica Trebel says. Hey. Hey. I'm so excited. Isabella. Hey, Dana. Dora, excited to be here. Jennifer Beck, Herrera. Thank you for saying hello. Good. Good to see you. Brian Smith has been with us for a while. He, his company is actually YOS certified and they do the art work with us also. Watson Jordan is here every week. Man, we have a lot of people excited to be here. Go Boilermakers. Are you a Purdue? There we go. Now you're, you're, are you a Purdue grad or you're teaching there, though?

Yeah, I just teach there. I, I did not go to undergrad at Purdue, but I have definitely. I am Definitely a fan at this point. After about eight years in that community. It's. It's really remarkable, you know.

You know what's so fun about all those comments is I remember when we first started doing why not Wednesday? I would be just so happy if one person watched, you know, and now I'm so happy that people come back. Watson is one of our coaches and he comes back every week. He always has some great input, and so we're glad to have him. But let's start with your yos. That's the first question I like to ask. So. And you guys are going to love this because Dora's why is better way. So she's someone that's constantly looking for better ways to do things, innovate, improve things and then share them with the world. Her how is make sense. So how she finds those better ways is by helping people make sense of the complex and challenging. She's a problem solver, and we're going to talk a lot about that. That's part of the questions that she and I talked about that we wanted to answer. And then her what is challenge? So what that tells me is you can count on her to bring you solutions that are out of the box and different. So I know Dora, it's been a while since we did your yos when we first met, but how does it fit you and how does it continue to fit the work that you're doing?

Yeah, you know, I was really impressed and pleased, I think when I took it with how fast it was and how accurate I felt it summed up the way I look at things in a way that I didn't even. I didn't even know. But, yeah, I do tend to get frustrated when things are.

Unclear or unnecessarily complex. And the naughtier the puzzle, the more I want to untangle it and figure out what is at the bottom of this and why doesn't it work. And then, you know, I do all that, all that digging to try to figure out a solution. I don't want to keep it to myself and.

Right.

But I also know that sometimes just giving people like a whole long winded answer. It's taken me a long time to learn this, by the way, that giving people a really complex answer isn't really all that useful. So trying to figure out how they can make the most of my hard work, that's really important to me.

And I love that you said that. And I want to recognize there's a couple more people that joined. Matt Canyon says excited to Learn. So I know that's one of yours. Denise Musselwhite out of Florida, thank you for joining us. And Danica Trouble, she's always cheering on those better ways. Watson's a better way. So you know, you know that Y Institute, we're a better way company. Gary's why is. Is to find a better way to share it with the world. And that's you. You just mentioned something that's a, that's a challenge for a lot of better way and makes sense people is you, you know, your gift is you find better ways and you want to share them. Right. And you want to make sense of things and you want to help people understand. And sometimes people don't want to hear our better way. Right. They're not ready for our better way. Maybe sometimes they just want us to listen. And you mentioned that you've learned not to give people solutions because you make sense of it. That's the other. What we know about people with the how of make sense or the make sense in their top three is you solve puzzles. You love solving puzzles, and you usually solve them way faster than everybody else. And so while they're still thinking about it or going through it, you're like, I, I know what you need to do. And sometimes when we say that, we frustrate people. Right. Because they're like, I just wanted you to listen, Dora.

That's right.

Do you get that a lot?

I can think of a time that I might have done that at least once.

Right? At least once. Only. Only it doesn't happen that often. Well, so let's talk about esg, because what, you know, I want to ask you, what's the complex and challenging problem you solve? I have a feeling I know the answer. But tell us about that. What is that problem and how do you solve it?

Yeah. So really when we start talking about ESG and the work that I'm really, really interested in is how do we help businesses figure out how they're going to generate impact, how they're going to make the world a better place, but how they do that in a way that generates profit, too, because we are in business to make a profit, to be sustainable. But a lot of us have been taught that we either had to choose, we were going to go into nonprofit and we were going to make a difference, or right, we were going to go into the business world and maybe sell our souls for. For money. And my frustration was I wanted both. I, you know, I'm a, I'm a Gen Xer. I grew up in the 90s, I joke, you know, the dichotomy of the music and the, you know, I got my first email address, like, five days before Y2K. All of these different things, maybe a couple of years, but all of these things that were dichotomies, I want. I want both. And so my question has been, how do we do that? ES is the predominant methodology, the terminology that people use when they think about this. It means, how are we protecting the environment? How are we addressing social issues? And how are we operating ethically? Environmental, social, and governance standards?

Right.

So it's a pretty incredible place. It's a $27 trillion market, so there's a lot of money, there's a lot of opinions, there's a lot of paths forward. And my work has been in really uncovering what that, what that process should look like.

And it's so important. And I love that you brought that up, because I think, you know, I kind of grew up in your generation, and everybody was like, well, you can. You got to pick one or the other. Sonia Shelton, who's one of our coaches, you know, she, she. She hates to. There's that, that. That saying that says culture, each strategy for dinner or for breakfast. And she says, you know what? Culture and strategy should be having breakfast together. And that's. I think what you're saying. You can be profitable and, and you can be socially conscious. So I'm glad you gave us the definition. Tell us ESG again.

And then it's for environmental, social, and governance.

Right. And the governance is. Is about ethics. Right. So you don't have, you don't have to go into business and, And. And lose your soul. You can make an impact. Something I learned recently, and I love saying it is, you know, if you measure your success by the impact you make, the money will follow. If you measure your success by the money you make, the impact doesn't necessarily follow. And I think that's probably something that you made a decision, hey, I'm gonna go make an impact, a positive impact on the world by teaching companies, large companies, Fortune 100 companies and small companies, how they can make a difference and make an impact and be profitable or it's.

And yes, you're absolutely right. And the idea of the culture and competencies, how those pieces come together, strategy and culture.

I joke that I have a detractor in my father who was a traditional Milton Friedman trained masters mba. And I would bring all of this information to him as I was puzzling it all out, and he'd say, dora, it seems great, but it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't. I see your data, but I don't get it. And I can remember the moment when all of a sudden I realized that when this works, when ESG works, that it drives impact and profit is when we have the culture and the competencies and the behaviors. Because if we have a strategy but we don't have a team that's able to pull it off, it's. It's a totally moot point. And the day I called my dad and said, dad, I think I understand why this works, because it's really about people's competencies and their ability to live it out, he said, that makes sense to me. And that was when I knew that I had. I had a solution that was going to work.

Hey, Dora, is your dad still around?

Oh, he is. He is. He has to listen to me every day when I have a new idea, Dora.

So you're going to have to remind me and send me his email because it had to make sense to him. It makes sense. As part of your yos, I'm very interested to figure out what his. His why is. Let's make sure we touch base afterward and we'll make sure to get his. Y know, Brian Smith is on and his. He. He is the. The I in team series. You know, everybody talks about. There is no I in team. He. His. He's got actually a whole series on the importance of influence individuals in making up teams. But it goes right alongside with managing your influence. And what is. What does. Oh, Danica says it doesn't need to be an either or in Matt Kenyon says, love it, impact and profit. And I think that is what really drew me to this topic and wanting to share it with people, because I think. And I love our newer generation, Dora, if you work with them, they're saying, hey, I don't have to choose between being a family person and being a successful career person. How can we make it both work? And I think it's our challenge in our generation as we're hiring these young people to make it easier for them. And you talk about culture, so what does it take to build that culture so that you're everybody, not just the leaders, but everybody in the company understands that we're here to make a profit and a positive impact.

Yes. So my research shows that there are actually five criteria that organizations need to live out to make this ESG angle work for profit and purpose. And I think this will be really interesting to the Y Institute coaches because the first component of this is understanding your sense of servanthood, knowing who you are serving and why. And if you can't take that and disseminate it throughout the rest of the organization, it doesn't matter if you have a 38 page report with 120 disclosures, because nobody's going to understand it or really care.

Right.

So the first of these things is thinking about how you are creating a sense of servanthood. Know who you, who are you, who you are serving, and why this needs to go above the table stakes of, you know, we're providing the best quality product at the most affordable price. Yeah. If you have a business model, you should be doing that, but what else and why? So that's the first. Then we can start talking about having accountability and metrics. So if you say you're going to create this, why, how are you going to measure it in a way that's meaningful for all of your stakeholders?

Gotcha.

Once we've got that, then we can think about connection. How are we providing opportunities for meaningful work for individuals within our organization? And that can be everything from safe working conditions to volunteer days of service.

So much. Right. All of the things that go under total rewards in the HR world fall in that. And then we can start thinking about.

Compliance and ethical, Ethical compliance. Right. This is where we're managing our risk by making sure that we're accepting the behavior that we want to see and not creating accidentally negative incentives. And then the last part is in transparency and making sure that everybody around our organization sees the good work we're doing.

Right.

A lot of times. And I'm sure, sure you see this, Dan. You know, we are doing amazing work. But, but we kind of don't want to tell people about it. Right. We want to be humble, but people can't connect to our mission and our why if we don't share it with individuals. So we've got to be sort of closing that loop that proves the work we want to do.

I love, I love that you said that because, you know, I'm involved in some, some charitable organizations and a lot of times we get donors who say, well, I don't really want to tell people that I'm doing it. And I say, you know, we want you, we want to recognize you. Not because it's egotistical and you want to see your name up in lights because we don't know who you might inspire to also give. Because they'll say, oh, he's giving to that cause. And that's a cause that I Also believe in. And so as we talk about, what is it that you believe in? Right. You know, Simon Sinek talked about it 13 years ago, 14 years ago now. He said, look, if you tell people what you believe, you're going to attract people who believe what you believe. And so the why of a company, the why of a business owner, the why of a cause is so important because that's how you tell people what you believe. Right. And if they believe what you believe, they're going to join your cause. And if they don't, they're not going to join your cause. And that's okay too, Right. Because Dora doesn't want to spend time. How fun is it to work with a company that brings you in and says, look, we don't really care about the environment, we don't care about sustainability, but we just want to hire you to give us a rubber stamp? How fun is that?

Right. Not my ideal scenario. That's very true.

Right. But if they, if you tell them what you believe, hey, look, I believe in making sense of this process. Look, I know it's, it's, ESG is, it's a new term, it's something new. But let me help you make sense of it. Let me find a better way for you to do it and let's, let's make a difference together. So I really love how you've put the three together. So let's talk about your out of the box solution. What's the out of the box solution that givingspring and Dora bring to the table?

Yeah. So really the solution is the process that walks in order to organization through all five of these criteria. So instead of just giving you a disclosure form and saying, fill this out and you'll check all the boxes, I like to come in and say, hey, here's why this works, here's why. This is going to engage your customers and you can command higher price premiums. Here's why. This is going to engage your customer or your employees and keep them there and lower your HR recruitment costs. Here's why. This is going to add value from an investment standpoint. Right. All of the bottom line stuff. And to say you got to do the disclosures, but if you really want it to drive profit, don't miss these five major areas. Yeah.

And we always talk about why Institute always talk about don't tell people what you do, tell them why you do it. People care about why you do it. And don't share it just with your clients, share it with your internal team. Because when people know why you do what you do, they can get behind that. And I'm sure you do some work around that. And you just, you mentioned the word why like five times just a few minutes minutes ago.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, our businesses aren't operating in a vac. They're not operating in a vacuum. You know, we are part of an ecosystem. So we have to, we have to engage with that consistently throughout everything we do.

I love that. So tell me this, Dora, because that's the name of the show. What's your biggest why not moment time? When you said why not to something, to an opportunity, a circumstance, a choice, and it made a significant positive impact for you. Let's talk about that. Let's, let's get to the title of the show because sometimes, especially when I get someone with your energy and your positivity, I'll forget to ask my signature question. So let's ask that question now.

Yeah, you know, it's, it's burned in my brain, as a matter of fact, the very first one. So I actually came out of school again in the 90s. My first job out of school was at a trucking company. And so I had like 40 drivers that I would manage. And it was a great job. I loved it. I felt that I made a difference in getting my drivers home safely. I felt that I helped them make a living wage. I felt like I got to manage some environmental concerns. And thinking about idle. It had everything that I wanted in this dream job. And I thought I was doing a great. I thought I was doing an incredible job like living the dream. And I had my first performance review. And the manager that I had at the time didn't think that the way that I was handling some of the pieces of the puzzle in the short term, they were not hitting the key performance indicators, KPIs. Yes, I made a hit. And so I, I actually still have the document in my closet over here. It is covered in red ink and like tears and snot. I mean, indignation in this, in this performance appraisal where I found out that I was not meeting expectations. And I, I, it was devastating because I don't like not succeeding at things. And I thought I was doing a great job. And I felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me. And I couldn't, couldn't get my head around why I couldn't do the right thing for my drivers and the world and be making money for the company. And so that was really the moment where I had. Fortunately, he was an exception in the company. So a lot of other people kind of picked me up and dusted me off and I realized like, okay, if the frustration was that I couldn't do this because I didn't understand business realities, then I was going to go understand the business reality. So that is what made me go back and get my master's and really spur like the next 20 years of research.

And so that's, you know, and you talk about that. How long, how long after did you make that decision? So you were at the trucking company, were enjoying that work, and then you had this performance review and then that, that caused a total shift in what you do. And then now the next 20 years have been spent doing this.

Yeah, I mean, total shift. Right from that moment to when I registered a business for my master's, it was probably, it was probably not more than a month right before first or a couple months before the first class. But I stayed at that company still for eight years. You know, it was really, it really was a great company. But yeah, I mean, fast forward, so then what, 20, 25 years till that moment I called my dad and said, I've got it. You know the big eureka moment.

Yeah.

Lots and lots of missed, missed assumptions between them.

Let me ask you this. Did you say there's gotta be a better way? Did you think there's gotta be a better way? Right.

There's got to be a better way. There's always got to be a better way. Right. If there wasn't, we wouldn't have some of society's biggest challenges facing us right now. We'd have it all fixed. You know, there's plenty of opportunity for us to make it.

There's plenty of opportunity to use your better way, to use your make sense and to create some out of the box solutions with the work that you're doing. So tell me about this. What about, you know, and, and I can't wait to do the yos for, for, for your dad. It's going to be so fun. I'll, I'll, I'll, we'll make arrangements for that. But how has knowing your yos impacted the way you interact with people? Is, is it something you use when you, when you talk to people right away? Because I imagine who you are and that's really what your Y operating system is. It's, hey, I'm somebody who loves to find better ways to do things. I love solving problems and I like. And that's kind of how you operate. And I bring out of the box solutions. So how has it changed the way you communicate who you are.

Well, I have used it to share my why and sort of connect with people on social media. I think the biggest thing for me has been that has allowed me to become more comfortable with my own process. So I can think of a time when I sat down with a friend, I had taped legal sheets of paper, like six legal sheets of paper together. And I had, I had outlined this whole thing on how ESG was going to work and social impact. And she looked at me and said, dora, that is amazing and nobody can use it.

And she was right. But for me, thinking about better way, that's part of my process, right. I have to outline it all and then figure out how do I take away the 90% of the things that aren't relevant to most people and just give them what they need.

Do you like to mind map?

If I could flip this camera around and show you the number of post it notes I have on my wall, you would say yes.

Well, because Gary, our CEO and founder Gary loves to mind map. And Bella just said love that. Watson says, literally say that all the time. There's got to be a better way. His why is better way. But Bella is Gary's daughter. So we sit in these sessions and for Gary, he's got a mind map. It's. And you know, it doesn't matter what we're doing. And so we just understand because when your mind works the way yours and Gary's do, when you're driven to find a better way, when you put it all on paper and you map it, that's kind of how you visualize, right? How to make it better. And then you can start poking holes at it. Let me ask you this question because Gary says this very self deprecating, he says, you know, Dan, I love, he loves my how of challenge because I have lots of ideas. You have both better way of challenge and yours. But one of the things that he says is, you know, I can fix, I can make anything better. I don't come up with original ideas a lot. So he says, but if you, you know, if you give him a blank sheet of paper, he gets stuck for a while, takes him a while. But if you give me a scribble on a sheet of paper, I can make it better. And so it's really important to know that about yourself. And so, you know, instead of frustrating each other, because I have so many ideas as a challenge person and you do too, because you've got challenge. But he, I just throw them at him. And I know that he's going to take them and make them better. So it's almost just taking advantage of each other's gifts, right? Hey, here's something I thought of. I know this isn't the best way to do it. You're a better way person. What do you think? And he'll take it and say, ah, let me show you. And he'll take it and make it better. Whereas I used to get frustrated before because he'd take everything I brought him and say, I can make it better. I think, well, nothing's good enough. No, what he's doing is he's using his gift. And so can you think of times when you've done that and people have bring things to you and they're like, I need help. Can you make it better? Can you take advantage of your gift?

Yeah, you know, I think that goes both ways, right? The gift of giving people feedback. The gift of feedback. But I also think there is Adam Grant's TED Talk out there on being an original thinker. And he says that there's a really challenging thing that entrepreneurs hit where they come up with their first draft and they think, this is crap. I am crap. Oh, wait, this is okay, maybe this is awesome. And so he says that the trick is to jump from the this is crap to I am crap. And I spent a lot of time early in my career in that place. And he says, you shift your mindset to say the first draft is always crap. And so if you can do that, then it becomes easier to give it to other people and say, this is. I recognize that this is probably only 75% of what I'm capable of, but give me feedback so that I can polish. Because for me, that was freeing to recognize that everything didn't have to be perfect at the first outset.

Every time you know that, it's so funny you bring that up. We're working with a consultant, Charles Byrd, who's helping us with our. With our growth. And one of the things as we were working on our, okay, let's put together what that initial offer is going to look like. And he literally called it a word that starts with sh and rhymes with it. And we said, just put together your id. Initial offer, initial draft, because that first draft is not going to be perfect. Right. But you can't improve on nothing is. I think what I'm hearing you say, if you have that first draft, you can make it better. You can always improve on it. But if you never start, then you can never improve on it. And the longer you wait to start. The longer it is before you come up with that iteration that's going to be perfect. I mean, how long did it take you to create the aspirational business model?

I can't. I cannot even. I don't even think I could tell you. Right. It probably goes back to third grade on a Girl Scout trip at the end of the day, right. There's so much in there.

I. Can anybody. Can everybody picture Dora as a Girl Scout just telling her, girl, hey, leader, there's gotta be a better way to climb this mountain. There's gotta be a better way to set up these tents. Right? Were you all, were you always that way even as a kid?

I can only imagine. I can only imagine. Matthew Kenyon, who's on here, knew me as a kid, so he could probably confirm that. Yes, I was always a little bit like that.

Yeah, you got to find a better way. It's got to make sense to you. It's got to solve a problem. And guess what? It's going to be different. Let's make it different than everything else everyone else has done. So was your uniform the, you know, do you have to wear the bow a little differently than everyone else else?

Yeah. Yes, I probably did. I probably did. I'm gonna have to go find some pictures for you, Dan. I'll work on it.

You know what? I'm trying to remember who it was, whether it was Leah Rowe or somebody. Someone else in the PFN network posted a 12 year old picture and they challenged me to post a 12 year old picture. I'm gonna, I'm gonna challenge you to post a Girl Scout picture in Mad Canyon just for the verification for everybody. Yes, that, that was, that was Dora, even as a Girl Scout. So how, how long ago or how old were you when you met Matt?

Gosh, I don't know. Our parents were, our parents were friends back, back in, back in the life and he, he actually just started his own business and he's doing coaching for parents of teenagers who need help in their communication style.

Oh my gosh. His. He's got to have people beating a path to his door. I have a 10 year old. So do you. And you have a 13 year old. So you have an actual teenager and one to be. And boy, we, we all need coaching.

On how to deal with them.

Right? There's got to be a point.

I'll talk to you guys afterwards. We can figure out his why too.

Yeah. You know what? I think that the hard part, the, the hard part is understanding them. Right. And, and we have. And looking at my 10 year old and she took the yos just because this is the work I do. And her why is to challenge the status quo. And boy, when, when we got that, it's like, yes, that is Sophia. That it, you know, she's always looking for, hey, let's do it differently. Why, why do I have to follow the rules, dad? Why can't we do it this way? And, and she lives into it though. That's, that's kind of what she does. And, and we understand her, you know, and then we, and then you can love them for it because, you know, I think it was Steve Jobs who said, you know, only people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the only ones who actually do. And that's what you're doing. I mean, Dora, congratulations on, you know, I think it's, it's really cool that you're, you're living your why. It's part of what you do every day, right? I mean, how much energy do you have when you go into a day where you're going to help somebody find a better way to run their company so that they can follow, they can be ethical and care about the environment and be sustainable and have ethical rules? Does that sound like a good day?

It does to me.

Right?

It definitely does to me.

And you know, we talk about the differences, right. You know, the other day, I've got to share this with you and get your thought. I heard this quote and I think it's so spot on. It says for people with the why of right way who are rule followers, if, if something isn't strictly forbidden. Strictly allowed, it's forbidden, right? They follow the rules. If, if it's not in the rules that you can do it, they're not going to do it. For somebody with the why of challenge. If it's not forbidden, guess what? It's allowed, right? If it's not specifically forbidden, it's allowed for the right way people. It's not specifically allowed, it's forbidden. And so knowing that about people and how often do you see conflict between people who are like, it doesn't say you can do that. Where does it say you can do that? And then the other person is like, well, where does it say you can't? And then understanding, hey, you just see the world differently, right? And Dora sees the world differently. She sees a world that needs improvement, that needs to be better. She sees a world that has a, has problems that need to be solved. And she sees, she sees a world that need some out of the box and different solutions. Dora, it's been so fun to interview you. You know, can you imagine? We're all. We've got one minute left. So let me ask you a question. What would you say to someone who is thinking about discovering their why operating system, working with one of our coaches or maybe hiring them to come in and work with their company? What. What value do you see in it? Have you seen in it?

Yeah, I think communicating with others. To your point, right? Getting past some of those points of conflict. I think that's a huge operational piece. The other piece of the puzzle is so many of us have not been given permission to understand what and why we care, but we don't know where to start. And so sometimes just letting people figure out what and why they care about things allows them to unlock this bigger world of impact that they've maybe been told their whole life they weren't allowed to explore. So for me, I find that very, very compelling.

That's a great answer. And I'm going to leave. What do you say we end the show on that note?

Dora sounds good to me. Thanks for having me.

Thank you for being on Dora, everyone. We'll see you guys next Wednesday. Have a great rest of the week.

All right, thanks again.