124: A Brain Tumor, Faith, and the Shift to Functional Healing with Taylor Dukes

So as many of you know, my story, that I was in this conventional medical space and thought that I was doing the right thing and living my purpose, and God had different plans for me and sent me a big, loud message from the universe and led me to change how I practice medicine, how I perceive medicine, what I perceive my purpose is, and what I feel I owe to the world. And I'm not alone. So I have a beautiful soul with me today, inside and out, who very much like me, was very much ingrained in the conventional medical world, and God and the universe had different plans for her. So I am delighted to welcome Taylor Dukes to the show. Taylor, I'm so happy to have you. I've been wanting to have you on for a while. Your story is amazing, and I am thrilled and honored to be a part of it.

I'm so honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so thankful for the work that you're doing because I can send people your resources because we can't be an expert at everything. But I'm so grateful and honored to be here and so thankful for the work that you do. So.

You know, as a surgical resident, I spent a lot of time with ICU nurses. They are a very, very, very special breed of person because they literally hold life in their hands every single day and often with very little reward from the. From the patient side. Right. I mean, your patients a lot of the time are not even conscious and not even there. So what you're doing is really hard work. It's hard physically, it's hard emotionally, it's hard spiritually because lots of times things happen and it's hard to understand why. I mean, you see the disasters. So talk to us about your. Your humble beginnings as an ICU nurse.

Yeah, so I was a traditional nursing student and I would actually consider myself an adrenaline junkie. So I liked fast paced environments. Med surg. The typical med floor was not for me in nursing school. And I loved er, I loved L and D, but I really love trauma icu. And so that was really what I was passionate about. I wanted to do that and become a helicopter flight nurse. And funny God had very different plans. Now that I care about the nervous system and cortisol. I didn't know any of that then, but yeah, I started in trauma icu and it was a great experience. I feel like you just get put in that situation and sadly, like you said, like, there's emotional spiritual side of it. Like, yes. There's the intensity of keeping your patient Alive. And most of our patients were intubated, sedated, couldn't advocate for themselves and you know, you as a nurse by their bedside, are advocating for them. But it was also a lot of end of life conversations. And you know, I was more in a trauma icu, so it was more accidents. And that's why I'm really grateful for our conventional care system. But I also took care of a lot of people that had comorbidities too, like heart attacks and strokes. And even before I was in the healthcare world, I remember being like, what can we do to get ahead of this, you know, from prevention and health promotion and not just be so reactive for disease, you know, treatment?

Well, that was rather forward thinking of you because that's not the typical thought process or approach.

Yeah, it definitely was not something that I was taught in nursing school. I remember there being like a certain module about cam, complimentary and alternative medicine and it was just talking about, you know, resources to pull on in the hospital. But there really wasn't a lot of that taught in, in nursing school at least. And so I do remember having those moments again, like I wasn't super healthy and didn't have a reason to really care about health promotion. I was young, you know, but I do remember being like, I'm so, so tired of having these hard end of life conversations with these family members when some of these things could be prevented. So I do feel like I had that epiphany. But again, that was before I was healthy. I remember that like seed was planted then of like, what could we do before Meemaw and Paw Paw get here and, or young parents.

I actually think that we are born with a certain spirit inside of us. So it's always there. It's just when it comes out. Yeah, right. And for everyone that's different.

Right? Yeah. And a lot of life experiences are what ignites that in us and our passion and our purpose.

Yeah. Okay, so you're, you're loving your adrenaline, you're, you're forward thinking, but you're, you're in that ICU nurse space, that trauma nurse space. What happens?

Yeah, so I, my health started debilitating and I gotta just back this up. I was never the sick kid. You know, I was very healthy growing up. I actually grew up. We always kind of go back to our roots. Not everyone, but I did. My mom was very healthy. My, my grandmother actually beat cancer in the 70s. Super into Dr. Weil and food is medicine. And I, you know, had a very healthy upbringing and. But I, that Just, like, wasn't on my radar because I wasn't sick. I didn't have a need to be healthy. I mean, I would work out and, you know, and do healthy stuff every now and then, but that just wasn't on my radar. But I also. I was working ic, but I also did some medical mission trips abroad. And when I got back from those trips, that's when a lot of my symptoms started happening. So it didn't happen overnight, but I started having joint pain, my hair was falling out. I had tons of gut issues, bloating, constipation, hypothyroidism. I mean, literally a whole list of things. And so here I was, this nurse in the medical field. I'm supposed to advocate for myself and my patients, but I didn't know how to advocate for myself with other providers. You know, I was going to the gastroenterologist for gut issues. They didn't have answers. I was going to the dermatologist for my acne, which I'd never had. And they were just prescribing antibiotics and, you know, birth control, which they say is a cure all for everything. And I didn't know better. I just was like, okay, you know, I don't want to be young and have these health issues. And so I was so convicted because. Because here I am, a nurse in the medical field, supposed to advocate for my patients, and I'm going from doctor to doctor, specialist to specialist. And ultimately, my mom was like, you've never been the sick kid. I mean, I had days where I explained a lot of those symptoms to you, but it was a lot worse than that. Like, I had to eventually stop working in the icu. You know, my adrenals were shot. I had days where I couldn't get out of bed. My mom came and temporarily lived with me, was cooking for me. I had so much joint pain, it hurt to walk. So then I was going to the rheumatologist. You know, it just was a whole. It was a whole thing. And I was desperate, and I kept looking to the medical field for answers, and the conventional medical didn't have anything to offer me. And so I got to a desperate place where I was willing to do anything. And my mom was like, I really want you to see this functional medicine doctor. And she was an MD And I was like, I don't really believe in that. Like, I didn't learn about that in nursing school, but I was so desperate that I was willing, and I was just open. And needless to say, she changed my life. And, you know, she did.

Wow. I didn't realize that that was your turning point.

Yeah, so that was way back in 2012. That's how I got into this healthy living. Wow. We can talk about that later. But that's how I even got into the functional medicine world is because I was. I was sick way, way long ago. And she did all this testing and had answers and, you know, had correlated me getting.

What was it? I'm curious.

And shippy.

Oh, you're kidding.

Yeah. That's amazing. And it's coming on the podcast real soon. He is.

Oh, my God, that is amazing. Amaz.

So this is in 2012, 2013, like, long before this was cool. Long before social media. But anyway, so she had all these answers, you know, and she would ask me, like, talk to me about your diet. And I'm like, well, I've always eaten the same way. It can't be my diet because this. These are new symptoms. And sure enough, I cut out all the inflammatory things and was able to get off certain medication, all medications, actually. It changed my life from a health perspective. And then it changed the trajectory of my career. So I lived in Austin at the time, and then I became, you know, Dr. Amy Myers.

I do.

I was her nurse for years. And so that's how I.

Professional friend.

Yeah, yeah. So that's how I professionally got into it. And God kind of segued me out of the conventional world. And that's kind of how I, you know, became a nurse practitioner and started a practice of my own. And it was just, you know, once it had changed my life, I couldn't keep it to myself. I was like, if I can make a career out of this to help others the same way I've been helped, like, that is my sole purpose in life. So that's kind of what got me into the healthy living world.

How did your former colleagues respond to your revelation?

You know, they were like, so what are you doing? What is it that is going on? They thought it was hocus pocus, too, but also people that knew me closely. And granted, I'd only been a nurse for a couple years. I wasn't like this long standing private practice. You know, it was more like traditional friends from nursing school, like, just didn't really understand. But traditional nurses close to me that kind of watched me go through everything I went through, and that sickness journey and my mom living with me and me not being able to go to social events because I was just so sick and had so much pain. They were like, wait, so what's going on. They were curious because they saw my life radically transform. And it didn't happen overnight. It happened over the course of a year, year and a half. But I was a new person. And so they were, I don't want to say they were bought in, but they were like, so what's, what are you doing? Whatever you're doing, I believe in it. And so it did. It changed my life and changed the trajectory of my career.

Wow, that's really amazing. Until you hit your next hurdle.

Yeah, let's talk about. I always tell people a little bit of an intermission. And then I had Health Journey 2.0. So, you know, I met my husband, was married at this point, had two kids. I had started my own private practice, functional medicine practice, you know, working on that root cause approach to medical issues. And I co founded a wellness center. And life was good. And I, you know, I was so passionate about educating and equipping people. Like when you, when you find something good, you just can't keep it to yourself. And so I, I never wanted to like grow an Instagram following. It was more just like, I'm educating and then people are becoming patients at a practice and it was like free market. It was just, I was like pursuing my passion, educating. And then in turn people would become patients. But things grew and full body preventative scan company Pernuvo, are you familiar with them? Of course, yeah. So. Of course, yeah, you know, they reached.

Out and they didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

Yeah, yeah. You know, you've been in this world, you're og, but they basically reached out. There's so many now. That's why most people, they hear full body mri. I'm not even familiar with all of them, but I know there's a bunch, you know, that have come out since I've been in this world, but.

Yeah, but they're the og.

They're, they really are. Yeah. So this was back in 2022 and they were like, hey, we're getting a Texas location. We would love to gift you a full body scan in exchange for you sharing. And so I was like, yeah, I've heard about you. I've had patients travel to California to do your thing. And so I was like, sure, why not? You know, it's an expensive scan and I had no concerns. But sadly and thankfully at the same time, they found a brain tumor in my preventative scan. And I thought there is no way in heck that this is me because I had absolutely no symptoms. And off follow up MRIs confirmed it was me, Taylor Dukes, the healthy nurse practitioner, you know, that did health and wellness as a job and living, has a brain tumor. And it was life altering in every sense of the way. And we can get into that and. But I will say, and people always hear my story and they're like, oh my gosh, what's lurking in my body? And I like to remind people that, you know, tumors don't form overnight. It takes time and they're circulating cancer cells and then tumor formation. And you know, if you look back at my timeline, even traditional oncologists, neuro, oncologists and my neurosurgeons surgeon said this has likely been growing eight to 10 years. And if you trace that back, that was when the time when I was really sick and dealing with Lyme and parasites and my immune dysfunction was just really suboptimal and I was under stress, you know, of course, with trauma icu and I had some personal stressors in my life. And so yeah, it flipped my world upside down to say the least.

In retrospect. Like, I know that you say that you were asymptomatic and I believe you.

Yeah.

But oftentimes when we look back, our body really was signaling us and we just weren't listening.

Yeah.

Do you feel any of that in retrospect? Do you, do you, can you recognize anything?

I really don't. And even like I remember being at the nerves, the only thing that I can say is I was under a lot of stress and I did feel like a dysregulated nervous system. But it all depends on where in the brain is affected. You know, I had no midline shift, I had no seizures, I had no headaches. Didn't even know what a headache. I mean, I can't even to this day.

Where in the brain was it?

Right frontal lobe, which is executive function, which is interesting because I'm CEO, very high functioning private practice, you know, multiple providers, wait list for a year. So I had to ask my employees, I'm like, have you all noticed anything? I had to ask my husband and you know, even the neurosurgeons, like real impulsive behavior, you know, like buying timeshares, you know, inappropriate behavior. And I'm thinking, what in the heck? No. And my husband's like, no. So the only thing that I can say is I was under a lot of stress. Like my husband got out of the mill military, you know, I'd started a private practice, a wellness center, a three month old. And. And that's so many times I try to like look back and think about things, but I'm like, who wouldn't be stressed with all that going on with a three month old baby? You know, my husband was in grad school at night, so that's the only thing I could say is I do remember feeling more sensitive to stress. But I also think look at the circumstances too. I mean I really. And they think where mine was located, it could have just been more silent just because it where it was. But I did notice more symptoms after brain surgery. So I can definitely speak to, to some of those frontal lobe symptoms, like having a harder time doing things like planning calendar things that were always easy to me. I was like, why is this hard for my brain? You know, and just I would proofread blog posts and like that was really hard for me to do after brain surgery. So I think the things that I experience after brain surgery are what people talk about when they have the right frontal lobes. And I never had any of that, but when they removed part of my brain now I. And neuroplasticity is amazing. You know, I'm almost three years out from brain surgery. I'm like, oh, I don't struggle with that anymore. But I was having short term memory, I'd be like, did I order that on Amazon? So I know what those right frontal lobe symptoms are after brain surgery. So I really, I didn't have anything. And it was the size of a plum. It was large. I mean, I also feel like it.

Was just, it's just, it just goes to show you first of all how slowly it was growing because the slower it grows, the less perception you have.

Right.

So this really was a very indolent process. The other thing that it just goes to show you is how well we can compensate, how much neuroplasticity we actually have. And the third thing that I think it points to is when you don't know about something, when you lack awareness around something, it does not have the effect that awareness does. Yes. So many people are asymptomatic until they know about the thing. And once they know about the thing, it bothers them. So people come to me all the time with like an abnormal ultrasound and they didn't have any pain in their breasts before, they didn't have any discomfort in their breast before. Now that they know that they have an abnormal study now they suddenly have.

Symptoms and the psychological stress. Right. I can speak to that after cancer.

Well, that's very like this. Of course the psychological spreads. But I'm even talking about once we Know that something's there. We then develop physical symptoms.

Yes.

It's almost a hundred percent of the time. And people are always so concerned. They're like, but it hurts now, and should I be scared? And I. I say, I. It's the same benign thing that it was last week. It's just now you know about it.

Totally. Totally. I think that's such good perspective to share because it really is so powerful.

Yeah. So you knew about it and opted to take a little bit of a pause before you went to the operating room. Yeah, that was. That was pretty brave. What were you thinking?

Yeah, it was bold, and it was definitely not the standard of care. And I'm sure I had a lot of people watching my story. Like, what is wrong with her? She for sure has a frontal lobe brain tumor. You know, like, this is irrational. But I paused and, you know, I look to God for a lot of my strength and hope and a lot of my decision making. And I slowed down and I spent a lot of time in prayer and just said, you know, like, what? I know about health issues. And at this point, let me just back up. I know nothing about cancer. Like, I know nothing. Even from an integrative approach. I'm like, can you take an integrative approach? I don't know. I truly knew nothing. And so I was like, you know plenty. I. I know a lot now.

You just don't. You just don't call it. You just don't classify it under cancer knowledge. But we only have one system.

It's true. And it's either one thing or a time. I just was like, I don't know anything. Like, how does cancer. I didn't even know about circulating tumor cells, you know, but now that I know everything in the gut and toxicity, it all makes sense. It's everything I've always been doing and caring about, but it just has a different approach. And so when it comes to integrative oncology. And so I slowed down and I was like, this didn't happen overnight. Just like gut issues, just like skin issues. Whatever symptoms manifest, it's usually drops in the bucket over time. And so I. I tried to remind myself that I also, you know, knew. I always knew about, like, Hope for cancer, Dr. Connealy, you know, in case I had patients or family members to be able to refer Naysha Winters. I knew about these people. I hadn't read their books or anything, but I, you know, always new for referrals. And I always said if I got diagnosed, I would take this route. And I Had a lot of peace about going to Hope for cancer. And so I thought, you know, what, if we can shrink this brain tumor, awesome. If not, I'm just preparing my body for surgery. And I. And I had to have multiple talks with neurosurgeons, right? Because it was September when I got diagnosed. And I'll never forget having the conversation, you know, like, my husband didn't have access to my bank accounts for my businesses. Like, there's a lot of life planning that has to happen. I had to execute a living will. I had, you know, it was my birthday, our anniversary, my son's first birthday. So it was like a lot of life was happening in those three months that the surgeon was like, look, it's the holidays. You need to go get your affairs in order. You're not symptomatic, but it's a matter of time and we don't want this growing and causing more issues. So get on the books for next year. But like, it's not emergent. So I also view that as a blessing of like, look, I didn't have a seizure and get the next on call neurosurgeon. And so I'm going to capitalize on this time to prepare my body, my mind, my heart. And I got a lot of second opinions. I did a lot of research. I did go to Hope for Cancer for a couple weeks and did, you know, hyperbaric, high dose vitamin C, all sorts of things. And I also went to Dr. Connealy out in California and got on a personalized protocol and man, I did a deep dive. And I waited five months before surgery, which is crazy. Looking back, I don't know how I did that. I mean, truly, I'm like, the Lord just protected my mind because there's a lot of fear and anxiety in the oncology world and I've experienced a lot of it, you know, a lot.

Yeah.

And so. A lot, you're right. And so it's one of those things that I just felt so protected during that time. Of course I was scared, but I was trying to slow down and not make fear decisions and fear. And so I will say, by the grace of God, before surgery, my tumor actually shrunk in half, which is nuts that the tumor shrunk in half because the blood brain barrier, you know, anyone in the oncology world, that's unheard of. And so which was great because then he was able, my surgeon. I was able to get second opinions. I went to Barrows Neurological in Phoenix and had the most amazing neurosurgeon and he got a full resection, which for those not familiar, that means all of the tumor out of the brain. And yeah, that was February 1st of 2023, so almost three years ago.

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So I did so many things and I remember looking at Dr. Connealy and saying, you know, I considered her kind of the quarterback of my care team. I was working with local people, I had gone to clinics, but I can only spend so much time in California. So I was doing a lot of the therapies back home and I remember looking her in the eyes and being like, what was it? And she said, we'll never know. And you know what, that's a good thing. We don't have to guess because we have the best outcome. But we threw the whole kitchen sink at it is what she said. And so we did a ton of oxygen therapy from ozone to EBU to hyperbarics, molecular nasal hydrogen inhalation. I did a lot of high dose IV vitamin C. I got into a Ketogenic diet. And I was already healthy at this point because ketogenic diet, it happens to.

Be a especially important for brain tumors. I don't know that I necessarily encourage a keto. I. I encourage keto is because I think everyone should be on a low glycemic diet. Like, there's no reason to be on a high glycemic diet, and it's not beneficial for anyone. American Diabetes association, please hear that as you recommend all of the carbohydrates to your patients. But for brain tumors in particular, keto is especially important. And there's great response to that.

Yeah. And most people don't. They think of keto as like dirty keto. They think of it as like cottage cheese and T bone steaks, you know, and it's like, it's actually a ton of green vegetables, like very low carb vegetables, and then high fat, high healthy fat. So I was doing like shots of olive oil, tons of avocado, some nuts, seeds, and then very, very moderate protein, which I'm a protein girly. I feel so much better. I'm not in full ketosis right now. I don't live life in ketosis because there's also a level of I did what I had.

Well, I also think it's not good for you. It's not good for women in general, but it's not good for you long term.

Yeah.

It's a therapeutic diet for a reason.

Right.

You use it as a therapy, and then when the therapy is done, so is the diet.

Yeah. And that's how I felt. I felt really restrictive. You know, I got to a point where I was pricking my finger and. And checking my glucose and my gki, my glucose ketone index, and it was very stressful and life sucking in a lot of ways. Now, if I had a glioblastoma, it'd be a different conversation. I did have a grade three brain tumor. So it was slower growing. It was more favorable. It was an oligodendroglioma for anyone that cares about pathology, but it was grade three. So it was, you know, not a grade one or grade two, sadly. But I got to a point where I also, after surgery, I was like, I have to also live life like I'm healed. I don't want my body to continually think that it's sick. And I have to be pricking my finger and doing this because I also. Part of healing is living and making memories and traveling and being with my family. And so I had to kind of figure out what's that healthy balance now that I'm on the other side of this. And I still do a lot of therapies, I have a lot of supplements, I drink oxygenated water. You know, I, I, I incorporate detox and a lot of different things still, even though I'm healed. But I did have to get to a point where I was like, okay, I got out of that therapeutic ketosis and I'm going to live life like I'm healed and I'm still very healthy. I don't just like, like go ham, you know, out and about. But yeah, I did have to get to a point where I was less restrictive and strict because I was healed.

So how has this experience as a patient affected your, your role as a provider? Do you, do you approach patients differently now than you did before?

Yes, well, I actually, I tell people I retired, I'm too young to retire, but I did pivot. So I owned that private practice and I took a extended leave of absence because I mean, I also had an 11 month old baby, you know, and healing was a full time job. Like with all the therapies that I did and that I was sent home with and would do, whether it's infrared sauna or, you know, parasite protocols that I had, it just, it was a lot. And so I couldn't fully dedicate and take care of patients and care for me and my family. And then, you know, I kind of pivoted my career and I ended up closing down my practice just because I didn't feel like I was going to be able to show up for patients like I had in the past and still care for myself and have a, you know, moderate level of stress to sustain a healthy immune system. And so I did end up closing down my practice. I don't work with patients one on one anymore. But it did change the trajectory of my career because I did get creative and I always get asked about products and electrolytes and different things like that. And so, so honestly, that's one thing I'm thankful for, that the Lord used the cancer journey to pivot my career. And I started making healthy products that I saw that were on the market. You know, like hot chocolate. I want to give my kids hot chocolate during Christmas. I don't want to be a Grinch, but like, I'm not going to give them Swiss Miss, you know. And so we made formulated a healthy hot chocolate and it's organic sugar. And so I got into more, I pivoted my career into more the formulation of supplements. But one thing I would Say that still remains true is I'm still. And probably no, I know I am way more passionate about educating and equipping and empowering others because I think when it comes to cancer, and it's not just from a healthcare perspective, it's like, hey, guys, I've walked this road. Like I went through the oncology world and the standard of care in some ways, and I think so many people equate cancer with a death sentence and it doesn't have to be that way. And so I feel like the same thing that I was doing is educating people. Now I'm still doing that, but it comes from this different place of, hey, I've walked away this road and I've been through this journey.

Is there any part of you that misses that role or do you think that this was somehow put there intentionally so that you would transition into this place?

Yeah, I mean, and I, I believe God uses everything, you know, and I think that, I don't think he gave me this brain tumor, you know, but I, He's a good God. I don't think he gave it to me, but I think that he uses everything. And so I think that part of, of this situation that he's used is to pivot me. I'm home with my kids more. I'm actually helping more people in a larger level than I could have ever imagined on private practice. So I miss my one on one, like really getting to walk with people. But at the same time, I think it's better than what I could have ever imagined and planned. And I'm grateful because that's what came from kind of the cancer curveball. That was not something I would have ever signed up for or chosen, but it's been part of the purpose. And like, I get to be home with my kids more. And that's what cancer taught me, is like, like what matters. And I'm like time with my family, making memories. And I get to do that and still pursue my passion and help educate people and provide products. And so it's just different. I miss the one on one. But I do feel like I get to have a bigger impact with what I'm doing now, less one on one.

People ask me all the time if I miss surgery, and I don't. Yeah, I don't now, unlike you, I did it for a very long time.

Yeah.

Like, I was a surgeon for more than 20 years, so I left everything on the table, no pun intended. Like, I. There wasn't anything I didn't do. There wasn't anything I Didn't accomplish that I wanted to accomplish. I ran a cancer program. I ran. I ran my department. Like, there wasn't anything that I didn't set out to do that I didn't check that box. And when I was done, I was done. And, like, no regret at all. And I had a surgery myself a couple of years ago, and they. The half of the OR was like, Dr. Simmons, Dr. Simmons, do you miss being here? And I'm like, no, I don't. I mean, it's lovely to see all of you, but, like, no, I don't miss it.

And you probably never thought you would go to medical school to do what you're doing, but the purpose feels like a different. Yeah, you're like, I never imagined. That's not why you go to medical school. But it's so cool to see the impact that you're having now.

I mean, I had a very similar response that you had to Ann Shippy, which was like, there's no such thing as that. When I got sick, I. You know, I'm sitting there as a cancer doctor being told that I need surgery and chemo and radiation, and I'm going to be on lifelong medication.

And.

And I knew that that was the standard of care and the gold standard. And it's probably the same answer that I would have given to the person sitting across from me, but as the patient and receiving those words and, you know, me asking, why? Why did this happen? And getting the same answer that I gave to everyone else, oh, there's nothing.

You could have done.

And it's multifactorial and, you know, it just happens and bad luck or whatever, right? These horrible, inadequate explanations that we give. And all I could hear in that time and space was, there's something more. Go find it. And, you know, you can call it God or universe or whatever you want to call it, but that's. That's the download that I got. There's something more. Go find it. So here I am, like, searching for that something more. And even though I went to a medical school that had a department of Integrative Medicine, and we were like, okay, those are the wackadoodles, right?

There's a.

Those are, like, the crazy people that can't hack it in the real medical track, right? And so I end up enrolling in the Institute for Integrative Nutrition.

I did the same thing.

IIA health coaching program.

Yeah. That's what we had back in the day, right?

Yeah. So many of us.

Right.

And so I'm sitting there, and this Tall, lanky guy walks on the stage in a big toothy grin, and he introduces himself as a functional medicine physician. And all I can think of is like, I've been a doctor for 20 years. There's no such thing as a functional medicine physician. Like, what is this quack talking about? Right. Only the quack is me because the guy on stage is Mark Hyman.

No, I know. I mean, how you know, it was 2016.

In 2016, he was not exactly a household name. I mean, I still get people who look at me with a blank stare when I'm like, oh, my God, you know, I'm dying to get on Hyman. Right. And people are like, good for you.

Yeah.

Like, they have no idea who he is. But really, in 2016, very few people knew who he was.

Yeah.

And then like within two minutes of him talking, I was like, oh, my God, how did I miss all of this in medical school?

You're like, was I absent that week or did I just.

Yeah, like what I, what he was, he. What he was saying. I was like, oh, my God, this makes so much sense. Yeah. Why aren't we talking about this?

And I think a lot of doctors are frustrated that they only have so many tools in their tool belt, but they don't know the solution. And again, they're not willing to be open minded. But, like, I know a lot of family practice physicians that when I would explain what I'm doing, they're like, I wonder if I need to look into that because they're, they're frustrated with, you know, all of these recurrent patients coming back and, and their medication or their procedure not solving the issue. You know, they only have so many tools in their toolbox and you're not taught and equipped with that information.

No, you're absolutely right. And I do think that a lot of, A lot of providers, not just doctors, I think a lot of providers are super, super frustrated. And I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Because I think now with the black box warning coming off of the hormone products, which is amazing. And yes, they should have never been there, but the bottom line is that they have been there for 20 years and we have two decades of providers that are completely hormone illiterate.

Yeah.

That have no idea what they do, how they do, what to write for, how to, how to monitor. None of it.

Right.

What's indicated, what's not indicated? No idea. Totally, totally ignorant.

Yeah.

And yet every woman on Instagram, on Facebook, on Tick Tock, on what you Know what? Wherever they're getting their information, they're like, I want hormones.

Yeah, that's me.

I want hormones. And they're going to go to their doctor who is not going to have any idea or just say this is.

Just the way it is or this is just part of life, you know, and it totally dismissing and minimizing what people are speaking up about. And their bodies are saying help and, and so are they.

Yep, you're absolutely right. So what in your experience, We've talked about a couple of them, but what do you think are the real blind spots in medicine?

You know, I really think as a whole people even say, they say like, do you just like distaste the whole medical system? And I'm like, well I get frustrated by a lot of things for sure, but I really think it's a lack of education. You know, people get mad at the providers and I'm like, you also have to look at the institutions, like what is being taught and how long does it take medical textbooks to catch up with that? And it's, it's not okay and it's not going to serve our generation, you know. And so I think, I think the.

Answer TO that is 20 years.

Literally 20 years. Yes. And so that's why I'm thankful for people like you, Dr. Canaley, like doctors and mid level practitioners and people that are leading the charge saying like, hey, no, we're not waiting till the textbooks catch up. We're looking into PubMed now and we're looking into research. And so I understand that one of my biggest frustrations is, you know, the lack of education and the lack of how long it takes to implement things. But also I think us as a system. And again I alluded to this speaking in icu, we're very, I'm so thankful for our medical system. Look, I've spent a lot of time in Uganda, Ecuador, third world countries. We have the best medical system when it comes to trauma and emergency medicine. And so. But we are not great at helping acute care. Right? Acute care.

Very good at acute care.

Yes. But we are not good at disease prevention and health promotion and it is ridiculous how much money we are spending on health care and how advanced we are as a nation. Yet we're one of the sickest nations with all these comorbidities and now it's affecting our children. You know, as a mom of a four and six year old, I'm like, this is unbelievable. Even the amount of allergies and childhood issues. I'm like, remember when we used to fly on Southwest. And they had peanuts. Like, that was very normal. You can't even imagine peanuts on an airplane with how anaphylactic people have reactions to, you know, and so it's just, it's really sad that it's affecting.

I mean, it's just that we're so toxic. No one has any, any ability to tolerate even the littlest bit.

Yeah.

Because we're all so toxic. Like, our buckets are getting filled so early, overflowed.

And it's, it's so sad that it's affecting our children at young ages when they should be the strongest, most resilient. And you look at, you know, rates of ADD and eczema and allergies and all these things, and obesity and even, you know, kids overweight and having comorbidities and heart issues and blood pressure, hypertension. I mean, that is where I get really fired up as a mom, because I'm like, this should stuff.

Right?

Yes.

Stuff that when I was training was absolutely unheard of. Right. Totally. We did not. I, I didn't know kids with fatty liver disease or high blood pressure or diabetes or hypertension. It didn't exist. It did not. I mean, they had juvenile diabetes. Yes.

They did not have type 2.

What, what. What we're talking about in terms of like, insulin resistance. Right.

It's sad and it really is. It's a pill for the ill type model. Like, oh, you have this symptom. Okay, what medication can I give you versus saying, no one's asking the why question. Why are you having these symptoms or what could be causing it? And again, a lot of that goes back to the system because we're not taught that in nursing school or nurse practitioner school. And, you know, you went through medical school. We're not taught that. And so a lot of providers aren't equipped to carry it out. And so, yeah, it really, it has to change with the education and asking the why question and how we can, you know, promote health more versus just push, push, push.

That's going to take a long time. Yeah, it's going to take a long time for that thread to pull through the educational system. It's going to take 20 years. And in the meantime, a lot of women are going to suffer and, and children too. Right. Because those unhealthy children are only going to grow up to be unhealthy adults.

Right.

So I, I know. I have my opinion on how to fix it. I'm curious, what, what do you think we do? What do we do to try to fix this?

Oh, my God. I'm like, how much time do we have? I mean, obviously nutrition. You look at majority of both standard American diets, and it's processed, ultra processed food, sugar, tons of chemicals. You know, people say, well, like, well, how should I eat? And I'm like, don't even get so fixated on a certain diet, whether it's Mediterranean, keto, paleo, like, just eat real food. You know, getting back to basics. It's shop the perimeter of the grocery store. And people are like, well, I'm so confused about ingredient labels and marketing. And I'm like, hey, eat the food that doesn't have ingredient labels. Start there. Because avocado or ground beef or spinach, you don't have to read ingredient labels. And so I really do think it starts with what we feed our body. I also think we live in a really toxic world, and now more than ever, we have to make a really big effort to detox. You know, it starts with us in our homes and the personal care products we're putting on our body. Not just the food we're putting in our body, but especially women. You know, we're the ones that are putting on creams and serums and deodorant. And men use deodorant too, as well. But women specifically, you know, we really have to be mindful of the chemicals that we're putting on our body and having in our home and the fragrance and the endocrine disruptors. And then you convolute that with birth control and it's just a hormone time ticking bomb, you know, especially for people that already have poor detox pathways and they don't have favorable estrogen metabolism pathways. So I think toxicity is really big. And detoxing. I think we have to advocate for ourselves. You know, we don't just need to trust the system for every single thing. And that starts with, I see a lot of mama bears rising up after Covid. I don't know if you see that that's specifically the people that, you know, I'm around a lot.

And that's who I think is going to change the system.

I think so too. Right.

Because they're like, I think they're going to. They're demanding better.

Yes. And when you know better, you do better. And a lot of moms know, after Covid, a lot of people have questions, as they should, and you have to advocate for yourself, for your children and ask questions. I'm really passionate about that. But yeah, I just think we live in a really toxic world and we really have to be different in order to avoid standard American issues, you know. And so it's so weird to me to think, like, why do I have to be the weird mom that my kids don't eat food dyes and that we don't. I don't use perfume, you know, and to think, okay, that's not normal. But I don't want normal standard American results and diseases. And so in order to be different and to try our best, we can't control everything to avoid those things. We do have to be different, you know, and it's just we have to advocate for ourselves more now more than ever. And even with women, like just suppressing symptoms like, oh, you have this. Well, that's normal. Oh yeah, your mom had this. That's normal. And it's like, no, don't accept this is normal. Or this is a genetic thing. You know, we have the ability to accept, affect the expression of our genes through epigenetics. There's tons of research. It's there. And I feel like it's so important that we feel empowered in that.

Yeah, I agree. But there's often a criticism that being healthy is expensive. Right. And I'm sure that you have heard this plenty.

Yeah.

So I'm just curious because I, I hear you say that it. There are lots of affordable ways to be healthy. Can you, can you lay that out? Because there's a lot of people out there making excuses not to engage because they think it's unattainable for them or unachievable for them.

Yeah, I love that question. And I think again, we over complicate it. And so many people think, well, in order to be healthy, I have to buy a sauna and I have to buy this biohacking tool and I have to do this. And it's like, like actually start with the basics, you know, start with the food you eat. If you can buy organic, great. If you can only buy real food, then start there. You know, at least that's better than ultra processed food. And I think when it comes to cleaning products, you know, like, there are a ton of great brands out there that make cleaner brands, but you can also just use vinegar and water and it doesn't have to be expensive. And I think.

And vodka.

Yeah, seriously.

And baking out like a cheap handle of vodka.

Yes.

And mix it with lemon juice and water and it makes an excellent, excellent cleaning solution.

I love that hack. Yes. And baking soda. I mean, I just used it to.

Grow and drink it. Yeah, don't drink, but use it to.

Clean yes, but, yes, I think so many times people think that in order to be healthy, they have to buy more. And reality is so many things. I like to refer to it as free medicine. You know, it's not, it's not a medication, let's be clear. But it's, it's things that are good for us, that help our bodies and our cells. And so getting back to basics, getting sunshine, fresh air. You know, we are sedentary. We live life indoors, we work indoors. And so, like, even before this podcast, you know, I have a day full of meetings today. I had our all team meeting. This is, you know, an hour longer. I went and took laughs around my house. I live on a farm, you know, because I was like, I just need to get moving. And I can't get to the gym today, but get fitted in wherever you can. So sunshine, fresh air, movement, sleep. People don't prioritize sleep. And that's really when the body, the nervous system and the immune system heal. And so I just, I always tell people, if they're starting their health journey, don't like, make an excuse that it's, it's healthy, it's expensive and you can't do it. Just start somewhere and start with the free things, you know, like sleep and de stressing and having meaningful relationships is important too, and community. And I could go on and on and on. But I also think too, when it comes to our specifically for women with toxic care products, you don't have to go buy every single new thing. A lot of it is just removal. Getting the fragrance and the chemicals out of your home that are disrupting your hormones and leading to liver toxicity. That's a great place to start. Just removal that in and of itself is going to do wonders to clean the air for your home and not burden your liver and your hormones.

Stress was a big thing for you. It's a big thing for a lot of people. You, you, you started off this story talking about your adrenals being tanked, and you very likely think that it was one of the major etiologies for why you guys sick. How did you turn that around for you? And how do you advise other people to address their stress? Because the truth is, the stress isn't going anywhere. Hello, my beautiful listeners. I'm taking a quick break here to share something truly transformative with you today. If you're ready to take control of your breast health journey, then you need to get your hands on a copy of my book, the Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer. I wrote this book to make a massive impact in the world of breast cancer, empowering women everywhere to make informed choices and educated decisions. You have so much more power and control over your health than you might think and this book, this is a roadmap to harnessing that power. Inside, you'll uncover the truth about conventional treatments. They're often overestimated benefits and underestimated, under explained and under disclosed long term side effects. But more importantly, you'll discover the true drivers of health and how the choices you make at home every day can lead you to the best health, the breast health of your life. Even after a breast cancer diagnosis. Whether you're looking to prevent a diagnosis, avoid recurrence, or simply live your healthiest life, this book is for you. Join me on this journey to empowerment and health. Grab your copy of the Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer today and let's revolutionize the way that we approach breast health together.

Right? It's only getting worse, especially the more connected that people are. Our bodies are constantly signaled, being pinged. You know, we were never meant to be in a world where we get every news headline, where we're constantly in touch with people. Me, wrong. I love social media. It's a blessing for my job. I love texting my girlfriends. We can't chat on the phone all day. We all have young kids. But I would say, yeah, that's, it's so huge. And I have not met a single cancer patient that has not gone through a significant stressor or trauma in their life. And I've met a lot of people on this journey at clinics, through social media, sadly through family and friends. And everybody has been through some intense amount of stress, if not constant chronic low grade stress or a traumatic event. And so definitely when I got Sick Back in 2012, 2013, I was, I was definitely stressed beyond. I can't even imagine what my cortisol was, you know, and my nervous system was so dysregulated working night shift. But. And I had also gone through some personal trauma at that time, but with related to family stuff. But also, you know, looking back of when I even got diagnosed, I had to revisit. That's part of why I stopped seeing patients, because I couldn't do it all anymore. And I was like, what? Clearly this cancer's been growing. Who knows if it stopped? We don't know. We'll never know, you know, if I was going to become symptomatic or when, or if it had just was really slow growing or it stopped. But it made Me reevaluate everything. The diagnosis of what matters, how do I want to spend my time. And we slowed down significantly. I mean, life and work is still busy and I still have children and we still carry on, but like we actually took pretty extreme measures to reevaluate every aspect of our life. And you know, I had said I co founded a wellness center and I even stepped away from that. It was my passion. I was so passionate about it, but I couldn't do it all, you know, and so I had to make a lot of really hard decisions. And even going to nurse practitioner school, it's nothing like medical school. But you work hard, you spend all this money and to walk away from a practice that had a year long wait list that was thriving was a huge sacrifice. But at the expense of what? Me being stressed and trying to do it all while healing, it just wasn't worth it. And then we recently, which was a long hope and prayer of ours, moved to land. And I cannot tell you how healing it has been just living on land, being with animals, spending mornings and evenings outside with my family. It has been the greatest gift. And I'm not saying you need to buy land to de stress, but it is. There is something about getting back to nature and how we were created to live. And I wasn't spending enough time even in the city, even when I was very aware of stress. And after cancer, I was not spending enough time outdoors and getting sunshine and fresh air. And that's been so healing and wonderful for us as a family. And yeah, just really being mindful of our pace and commitments and you know, as things have grown in my story, there's been a lot of opportunities and a lot of things that I have to say no to because I have to protect my peace and my pace of life. And it's just not worth it to be on the rat race and keep up with all the things. It's too much.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. And sometimes it does involve making really significant, drastic changes. But without change, how do you expect change? Exactly.

We can't heal in environments that made us sick.

You cannot. That's correct. So tell us about what you're doing now. Tell us the. I know that you wanted to make healthy products for your kiddos. So tell us the inspiration and what are your favorite things?

Yeah, so really it was inspired, obviously through the cancer journey. People would always ask me, like, what's your favorite supplement for this? Or what's your favorite protein powder? Or how do you get enough electrolytes in? Throughout the day. And people always ask me those questions and I was like, man, why don't I just kind of start formulating some of these things and creating them. And so that's what I do now. I make, I make products and it's really fun. And another thing, you know, through cancer, I want to be with my family and my kids more. And they get to come with us on trips. We say that they're kid approved because a kid doesn't care about the benefits. At least my 4 and 6 year old, they want it to taste good. And so we make sure that they're kid approved. And so we make really clean products. No sugar obviously, and healthy sources. You know, we, we are kind of our bread and butter, I would say is no bread, no butter. I love bread and butter. But it is our bone broth protein is kind of, you know, what we're known for. And it's a gluten free, dairy free, no sugar. We just use stevia and monk fruit and it's a great way to get protein. And I always prefer real foods over any supplement. But you know, not enough people get enough protein powder in. And especially for cancer people, that has been a game changer for people going through treatment when they have no appetite and they just need something. And it has coconut milk, so it has some healthy fat, but it doesn't affect blood sugar. And then we make just like real food ingredients. We have electrolytes that are made with of course, sodium, potassium and magnesium, but also real organic fruit juice powder to flavor it versus natural flavors and chemicals. And so that's been really fun and something I never thought I would be doing. But formulating has been such a blast and I get involved. My family and I have awesome customers.

Are you a cook? Like, is tinkering something that you like to do in the kitchen?

I do like it. You know, I would consider myself. I'm not super creative. I'm more medical science brain. Like people. I'm normal, but I'm kind of a nerd. And so people. But I will say the kitchen's always been my creative outlet. And I don't really follow recipes that kind of just go with stuff. And so I don't know, maybe that's where the product formulation. I get to get creative with the foods, chemists and scientists. It's been really fun.

I love it. I love it. And clearly it looks good on you.

You're sweet. It's been a fun adventure, one that I never planned on. Just like you and your pivot in your career. You never probably imagine being in front of a microphone hosting a show. Oh, no.

I think I always saw myself as this.

Did you?

I just. Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I think when my, when my parents used to ask me what I was gonna do when I grew up, I used to say, I'm gonna be famous. Oh, my God. I didn't want to be an actress. I didn't want to be famous that way. I don't think I ever wanted to be president. But I told them that I was gonna be a doctor, and I told them that I was gonna be famous.

That is amazing. So books and speaking and I guess.

Like, I wasn't famous enough as a surgeon. And so, you know, I got, I got thrown a curveball. So that.

But that's what changed for you. Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, it changes everything. Yeah. I feel like when you're given a curveball in a life altering situation, my husband always says we hit the curveballs and it's like. Yeah, like we hit the curveball and it's what changed the trajectory of our careers and our passions.

Yeah. And. And it is amazing and tremendously, tremendously rewarding, but at the same time, it's not an easy path. Yeah, right. It's not. And. And it's not that I'm grateful for my illness, but I'm grateful for my illness.

Yeah, no, I can say the same thing. I'm actually really thankful. I would have never chosen it, but I'm grateful for it. And I think that's also how people respond. Everyone that constantly says, like, I hate cancer, I hate cancer. Believe me. I actually lost two people yesterday. Like I was crying earlier on my team meeting because it. Two people close to me, rather close to me, that I've walked along their journeys and they both took an integrative approach and it just was so heavy. And I, you know, but everyone always says, I hate cancer. I hate cancer and I hate the devastating effects from it. But I also believe that, like so much good can come from, come from it when people let it teach them and use, you know, like, you know, Dr. Pete, you had him on and how it has completely changed his life and now it's affecting others. I'm grateful you have similar paths to his. Very similar paths. We're buddies. We're brain buddies. He was a little more symptomatic than me, so his surgery was a little more emergent, but he was already in the health world, you know?

Yeah. But the amazing thing is he his. That's kind of why I asked you the question. Because yes, in the end he was symptomatic.

Right.

But he had symptoms for a long time that he didn't recognize as symptoms.

Yeah. Until it was full blown. Yeah. Mine was not like that. I mean. Yeah, but it is hard because it's also had me second guessing and you know, this, but so many cancer patients, you know, the PTSD of it is very real and I'll feel something. And I started getting these like, headaches in the back of my head and I'm like, oh, it really stressed me out last year. And I'd had a clean MRI six months before and it was tension headaches, you know, but when you go through cancer, you're starting. I'm like, oh my gosh, I've never had a headache.

And so you're of every single totally.

And so I, I analyze things as a mom. I'm like, oh my gosh, I left the stove on is something. And my mom friends are like, taylor, that's so normal. Like, we all do this, you know, but you're hyper vigilant of that and it's. It's not, it's not fun.

If it makes you feel any better, I left the chicken soup on the stove because my son was sick yesterday. I left the chicken soup on the stove for 12 hours, man.

Which I'm just slow simmered brush.

I'm just telling myself that I made really, really good bone broth.

That's exactly what you did. But yes, no, see, that's where I like second guess things. And people are like, this is very normal. Like, when I look back, I was like, yeah, I was very stressed. So of course my nervous system was dysregulated. But again, like, I didn't have symptoms. But that's also been really challenging for me because I'm always like, well, yeah, I didn't have symptoms and. And what was growing in my brain, you know, but yeah, the aftermath of the survival of it all. You're grateful, but you're also. It's a journey. I'm sure you've been through that too.

For sure. For sure. So I thank you so much for your time today. Before you go, is there anything that you wish everyone would just know about this? I hate to call it integrative medicine space, but let's just call it this, this new medicine space that you find yourself in now. Is there anything that you want. Want everyone to know?

Gosh, that's a great question. I mean, I think, you know, it gets a lot of different terms. Holistic, integrative, alternative. Functional.

Yeah.

And I really. The best way I describe it to people, like if I were at a cocktail party and someone's like, what the heck do you do? I say, I have reverence for our conventional model when it comes to certain things, but I have a lot of appreciation for the holistic side of things. But what I really appreciate is when you combine the two for an integrative approach for the best possible outcome. And, and I think the one thing that comes to mind to share is that it's not black or white. It's not either or all or nothing. It truly can be both. And, and I think that's where the best possible outcome is. And I also think things need to be bio individualized, you know, and that's, that's. Talk about cancer. The standard of care, it's a conveyor belt. Oh, you have this. Well, here's your protocol, you know, and even my neurosurgeon said, look, you have a grade three tumor. And so if you go to any neuro oncologist, they're going to give you the standard of care because it's a grade three or grade four. Four. And they're going to want one year of chemo and radiation. And he's like, I am telling you right now, I would. He discouraged me from going to neuro oncologist. He said, I am willing to monitor you for life. He said, because I don't want you doing that. He said, I'd like to save that in the back pocket for a reoccurrence, which I really believe is not reoccurring. I actually believe I'm healed. But he was very much like, if you go the standard of care, here's what they're going to recommend because of the pathology. And so I think that's, that's, that's what I would encourage people to do, is it doesn't have to. You don't have to go all traditional. You don't have to go all holistic. You need to advocate for yourself. And I'm not talking about just cancer. I'm talking about gut issues. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, if you're having blood in your stool, get a colonoscopy, rule out some more serious things. But at the same time, if you're having bloating and constipation and you go to the GI doctor and they just give you a pill, like advocate for or find a functional medicine provider. And so I think my biggest piece of advice and encouragement would be don't just settle for what conventional says is normal. Definitely advocate for yourself and then incorporate the boast, both for the best possible outcome. But I think so many people in the holistic world also are fearful of anything conventional. And I like to remind people, look, there's times and places. I'm very natural. My house is hardwired. We have an air filter, we have water filters. We're very, very healthy. I had brain surgery. That's a very conventional intervention. And there's definitely times and places.

I. You get the question. I'm giving you a hundred. That was the perfect answer. Hit the nail on the head. That was the perfect answer. That is a huge issue, is that people think that it's one or the other and we are not throwing the.

Baby out with the bathwater.

And there are still lots of things in that conventional medical space that are useful, that are valuable, that are necessary. We're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Yeah.

At the same time, the. All the integrative stuff, all the holistic stuff, that's your end, right? That's your end. Yeah. Because one without the other doesn't work.

Yeah. And I. Friends go through conventional treatment, but they're doing the holistic alongside it to minimize side effects. And they are doing well on chemo, you know, but like, they have a stage four. They need the medicine. They need some of those treatments, but they're also using fasting and oxygenation therapies and diet. And I mean, their neuropathy is, you know, not there. And they're not sick after chemo. And it's just. It's so beautiful to see people use both and still thrive.

It's the. It's the marriage between them. And so for anyone who is out there and just not certain what to do, first of all, you should read my book, the Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer, because that has your answers. But beyond that, if you don't know what to do, do nothing. Take a pause, get educated, talk to people, get on these, you know, blog sites and these chat rooms and find out what other people are doing. Because it's really the marriage between the two. And oftentimes, if you ask your medical oncologist, they won't know. But there are. But that doesn't mean you should stop there. And there are other ways of doing things. And the truth is that there is a right way for you and it's not going to be the same as what someone else did.

Exactly.

Taylor, thank you so much for coming here today, for sharing your story, for doing the beautiful work that you do. Where can everyone find your products?

You're sweet. I'm so encouraged by you and your story, too, and I'm thankful for you, and especially when it comes to breast stuff. I'm like, go to her. I'm no expert. I know a lot about the brain. Just on my website, shop.taylordukeswellness.com and even I don't even tell people before I sell products. I'm an education brand first. And so we have an entire blog of literally everything from PCOS to estrogen dominance, of course, cancer stuff. I'm so passionate about education, and again, that's all for free. But if you want to try my products, they're pretty good, and I like them, and they're very, very clean.

Let's just, like, rapid fire. A couple of questions.

Yeah.

People worry that collagen causes breast cancer. Do you have a blog on that? Do you have anything to say about that? Collagen and breast cancer?

I. I don't think so. No. Is that a thing?

Yeah.

People say that.

Yeah. Okay, so wait, you may not want.

To quote me on this. What people say that?

Do you believe when. Yeah, yeah, all the time. People say, I thought collagen wasn't safe for women with breast cancer. The reason that they're saying this is because when cancer forms, it forms a collagen matrix around it. And so people associate that with, well, if I eat collagen or more collagen matrix, as my son would say, that's not how it works. Wait, I didn't know.

I told you, I'm not a breast expert. I didn't know that people say that. Yeah, No, I definitely do not.

Yeah. There's a ton of fear around collagen in the breast cancer community. You do not need to fear collagen.

Yes. I have a blog on it on.

My website, Real Health MDs.

I get that question because. Yeah, no, I'm like, no, of course not. But I didn't even know people talk about that.

Yeah. There is absolutely no correlation between the collagen that you eat and your diet and the collagen that forms around a tumor. None.

Way to debunk.

Yeah. And then the other thing that I wanted to quickly ask you is when you are talking about diet and those macros, there is a lot of concern about orthorexia. Like, you have to be perfect. What. How do you address that?

Yeah, I love this question. So I think the stress of being perfect is not good for your health. And people just in the name of, oh, I'm Being so healthy and control. It's an eating disorder. Call it what it is. Orthorexia is the control of being perfect and eating everything perfectly. And I always say you could literally pick apart any diet. You could be like, oh, you shouldn't be pescatarian because there's heavy metals in those fish, or you shouldn't be vegetarian because there's heavy metals in the soil. And the reality is, is the stress of being perfect is not good for your health. And that's exactly what I said about being ketogenic. And it was great for a period of time and I felt good and I think it was healing for me and therapeutic. But again, I'm not gonna do that for my hormones long term. And my body knew it was stressful. And when I was traveling and trying to do that and trying to be perfect, I started noticing that. And I'm not someone that struggled with the eating disorder, but I remember, think, like, this isn't healthy, this isn't good. And I think people forget how our body perceives stress. And orthorexia is very much a stressful response for the body. And so, of course, do the best that you can, make healthy choices. You do have to be different to be healthy in our society and with the standard American diet. But also don't try to be perfect and control everything because that's not good for your health either.

What do you tell people that are trying to make changes, but their husband, their kids, they're not on board?

Well, we do have blog posts for that because people ask me all the time, like, how does your husband respond to this? And sadly, my husband's mom had cancer. She had non smoking lung cancer. And she actually took an integrative approach. And he saw her fought really hard for four years, stage four, and at the very end, she did clinical trials and radiation, some chemo. And he said she went downhill really fast. And so as far as my husband, I was really fortunate. He was already cleaning with vinegar when we met. He. He saw his mom battle cancer and saw diet as helpful.

Whoa.

Yeah.

Come to my house.

Yeah, he was actually really. And he was in the military, and he had had some full body rashes after getting a lot of shots and getting deployed to Afghanistan. So he was already asking questions. So my situation was different. But I do know a lot of women specifically that have struggled that they react to things their husbands don't. And I would just say education is really awesome. You don't want to be the nagging wife or the nagging mom. But, like, As a mom, you do have a lot more control, unless your kids are older, you know, and then they're super resistant. But there's a lot of healthy swaps for things now. And so you don't have to just eat all vegetables, you know, there's a replacement for most things without seed oils and refined sugar. But start somewhere, you know, and, and also don't be the nagging mom and the nagging wife because that's going to turn people off more than anything. But I also think of moms and wives have a lot of control over the household. You know, like if you're going to buy the laundry detergent or the dishwasher soap. And I always women in my practice that would swipe swap to non toxic laundry detergent, should they be like, oh, my husband's allergies went away or my kid's eczema went away. And it's like, see that? One simple swap of buying unscented non toxic detergent can go a long way for your family. And I think a lot of people are turned off when you try to overhaul everything at once. And sometimes it can take men a little bit more time to come around. Especially they're very data driven. So women are like, tell me what to do, is it going to help me? I'm going to do it. And I've noticed men from working with them over the years, they're like, I want to see the data and then I'll do the protocol, you know, and so when they don't see the data and understand. But yeah, just educate and, you know, make subtle changes and do the best for your family. But don't just totally throw your hand, hands up and be like, well, I'm making five dinners because no one's going to eat it. Just get creative, make healthy recipes that everyone will enjoy. Swap out some toxins in your home and they probably won't even notice.

Or if they get hungry enough, they'll eat. Exactly. That's the mean mom in me.

Yeah. You're like, if you're Hillary.

It's been amazing. Thank you so much for being here today and I look forward to doing this again sometime soon. Remind everyone where they can find you.

Yeah. You're amazing. I'm so thankful. This was so wonderful online. I didn't mention on Instagram, Taylor Dukes Wellness. I love, I'm so passionate about education. And then we have our products@shop.taylordukeswellness.com and I think my team set up a discount if anyone wants to try anything. Jen Simmons will get you 10% off.

Oh, great. Wonderful. So we'll be sure to put that all in the show notes. Thank you again for joining me. And thanks to all of you for joining me today. And know that I will be back next week, same time, same place. It's Dr. Jen. Bye for now.