88: The Turmeric Truth Your Oncologist Won’t Tell You with Dr. Shivani Gupta

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Welcome back. I have a treat for you today because I have someone who I'm. We're going to talk about one of my favorite nutrients, one of my favorite substances, and that's turmeric. And I have the turmeric expert with you today. And we're also going to be talking about how to find things in everyday life to help you reduce inflammation. Simple, accessible solutions that you, you know, you don't have, you don't need an expert for that, are probably found right there in your kitchen or in your grocery store or, you know, that these things are within reach and they can really make significant changes and help you to live a better life. So Today I have Dr. Shivani Gupta here. She is an Ayurveda, an Ayurvedic practitioner. And what they do is they kind of fuse east and Western practices to come up with something that really helps you to restore your health, maintain your health, gain your health in. In a natural and meaningful way. So they. They rely on centuries of practices and information that is handed down generation to generation. And before we got on today, we started to talk about the fact that, you know, I come from a 100% traditional Jewish family. And my grandmother, of course, every week would make us Jewish chicken soup. And it always had this brilliant, brilliant yellow color to it. And the color came from my grandmother. My Jewish grandmother would put turmeric in her chicken soup. And I grew up my whole life thinking that that was like a normal thing to do and that Jewish people put turmeric in their chicken soup. And I was kind of saddened to learn that, in fact, that was not usual and that was my grandmother's special thing. So. And maybe I'm not sad, Bibi. I feel really great and fortunate that my grandmother had that tremendous, tremendous insight where she wanted her chicken soup to just look special.

Right.

In any event, it is wonderful to have you here today, Dr. Gupta.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

So let's start right off and tell me what is so special about turmeric.

Turmeric is a spice that's been used for thousands of years in Ayurveda. Ayurveda is this entire system of health and healing and medicine. And within it, we teach a lot of lifestyle practices to bring the body, mind and spirit into alignment. But one of the pillars of Ayurveda that I love to teach about is these super spices. And out of all the super spices that we use in the Indian kitchen or that we use medicinally for their benefits as elixirs and poultices, and now as supplements in the modern day world, turmeric is the one that fascinates me the most. So I was sitting in our biology class doing my master's in ayurvedic sciences and the teacher was talking about, oh, did you know fennel does this and cilantro does that and cumin does this. And like when she got to turmeric, I was like, are you kidding? One spice can do all that. In America we talk about superfoods, we talk about our blueberries and our spinach, our salmon. And so many of us are making smoothies and putting 20 things in there. What are you saying that one turmeric thing can do that much? And so after that, my advisor was like, you should do a PhD. And I was like, that sounds way too laborious, I don't think so. And he's like, no, I'm telling you for the impact you want to make and the books you want to write, you should do a PhD. And he's like, what would be the topic? And I said, well, I'd like to really understand how turmeric does everything they say it does. That doesn't even make sense. And so what's really cool is now there's over 17,000 scientific studies that talk about the benefits of turmeric. Clinical papers, there's trials, all in PubMed that discuss the science. And the fascination is there because turmeric is such a powerful anti inflammatory. It is anti inflammatory, it impacts NF kappa B TNF alpha interleukin 6. There's actually almost 30 plus pathways through which turmeric will impact our inflammation in our system. And so it's so well received by the body, so well utilized. And that's why it's being studied so much, because modern day science is trying to understand how else can we use this one plant? This is incredible. It's also a very powerful antioxidant and we know that oxidative stress over time can contribute to our diseases. It causes damage in the system. So we have to try to eat an antioxidant rich diet and turmeric can handle that job. For us, I think having the variety is still important. But for me I'm like, well, I took my turmeric, I covered my base. But another powerful aspect of turmeric that I love is that it's antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal. And so as someone who's always needed immune support, who's always had, you know, gut health issues, I'm always looking for what's my immune plan to stay healthy when everyone's bringing colds and coughs home? So it's immune supportive immune modulating, it's anti candida, anti H. Pylori has a lot of anti aging effect as well. It impacts our sirtuins, our AMPK pathways, it impacts and impacts our telomeres, can extend our telomeres. And then another important aspect of turmeric, when we talk about, the topics that you talk about is cell apoptosis. Turmeric will cause cell death in cells that don't belong in our body. When we have zombie cells in our system that are running around causing damage, turmeric's like this ultimate janitor that cleans house and gets rid of things. So the anti inflammatory effect with the antioxidant effect, with the cell apoptosis effect, I think makes it a very powerful tool for us to use as women as part of our prevention plan. And so those are some of the key things about turmeric that I love to talk about is, and then I talk about how to take it. So a lot of people say, well, I juice my turmeric. And I'm like, that is great. But in ancient India, we didn't really use the raw form of turmeric. We would take that raw turmeric and dry it into the spice which as you're sharing, your grandma used it in the soup. I'm Indian, it's in my food every single day. But considering how inflamed we are as a society and how much chronic, low grade persistent inflammation is causing damage in our systems over time, I really do think it's important to take that turmeric plant and understand what part of it is doing the work. So out of the entire turmeric plant, only 3% of it is the curcuminoids. Out of that 3%, only the one curcumin is doing the biggest job when it comes to reducing inflammation. And so nowadays there's a lot of supplements on the market, a lot at the drugstore and big box retailers and online. But it's very important to look at. Is it standardized to 95%? Are they extracting properly? Are they giving you the right proportion of the curcuminoids to drive a real result? Having a skinny latte or turmeric in your orange juice is not enough to drive the result that we're looking for.

So is there something about the drying of the root and making it into the powder and then you're actually heating it afterwards? Right. So don't you don't you warm all the spices?

We do actually. Yes, we every single spice in Irv that we pretty much warm up across the board. We have ghee and butter that we use, usually ghee and we use that to heat up our cumin seeds and our hing spice before we start cooking anything. We're heating it up in an oil. But yes, you know, if you think about it, if you bought onion powder, ginger powder, it's going to have a very much more potent effect on the taste. In the same way taking raw and drying it, it's just concentrating it that much more.

But is there something about the heat, the heating, is that activating it or would it have the same effect if you, if you didn't do that?

It's a good question. I have seen the science that's fine with both sides. So in the cooking we do heat it and it's fine, it keeps its properties. But there's no argument against using it at room temperature as well.

I'm curious because you started to talk about only 3% of the turmeric plant are curcuminoids. And of those we, we only think that one is particularly bioactive. I don't know that I believe that in that. I think that there is a reason why the whole plant exists and, and maybe we haven't found out what the rest of the plant does, but I have to believe that it's synergistic.

It is. It absolutely is. I love you brought that up. No one ever asks me that. There is a lot of science on non humanoid turmeric being anti inflammatory and beneficial. So I have a whole file in my Dropbox on that because I thought that was fascinating. I'm in the world of what am I going to give you to drive the best and fastest result. And so when you come at it from that angle, we love that 3% to 5% of curcuminoids. We want to give all three, we want to get it in the right extraction point in proportion. But there's a professor at MD Anderson Cancer center who was the researcher who discovered that black pepper increases the absorption of turmeric by 2000%. And fortuitously I worked in his lab when I was 16. In 10th grade, my mom just needed me to have a summer internship. He's a family friend and I was in that lab and he's like, you may not touch any petri dish or anything in here, you're a kid. But here's the science. Get caught up and understand what we're doing. And I just remember thinking, whoa, okay, the spice is interesting. This research is interesting. And he is the one who, when I met with him later when I was finalizing my PhD dissertation, he said, look, don't be one of those people. If you make a curcumin one day that you break off a molecule of curcumin and call it better, and then you patent it and do your own science to call it better, that's not the way to go. It's whole plant. Mother Earth made it. Your body knows how to receive it. Don't manipulate nature. And recognize that whole plant has a synergistic effect always. So if you're going to extract, remember the synergistic effect. And so when I formulated, I did that because you're right. It's not like Mother Earth would make something and say 97% is garbage. Let me just tell you, 3% is good. It's both end.

Exactly. I mean, it all has to be important or else it wouldn't be there.

Correct. Right.

And we're not, none of us are going to come up with something better than what God did.

I agree.

Yeah.

All right.

I want to talk about that absorption thing because again, if we were meant to absorb it, I think we would. So is absorbing it important or is the lack of absorption, does that have a purpose in that? Maybe it's there to feed our microbiome.

Interesting. As a polyphenol. You know, in Indian cooking, I would never cook my food without putting ghee, butter or oil in the pan first. So there's always going to be a fat with turmeric in any lean made. Part one, part two. Garam masala, the spice mix has black pepper. We always finish all our dishes with garam masala. So it's interesting. The Ayurvedic kitchen or the Indian kitchen always has all the things needed to make each of these spices absorb. I think that became important later when we just started extracting and then wondering, hey, this is not very well absorbed. We're not seeing it in the bloodstream, we're not seeing any levels of it in the system. Why is that? And then, then they retroactively went back and had to find what was helping it absorb. So yes, it, it will absorb naturally through food. And that's why in the supplement world, we're now like, let's add the black pepper healthy fat that was used for 5,000 plus years as the vehicle for supporting its absorption into your.

Yeah, well, maybe someone figured that out long ago too. Oh, black pepper I just read this crazy thing that black pepper is one of the, like, most a word I'm thinking of as bastardized, but that's not really the word that I want to use. But it's passed. Other things are passed off as black pepper, and it can be really toxic. And you have to be really careful about black pepper. Do you know about this?

You know, I think that's true for everything. Nowadays they say our salt, they call it Himalayan salt, but it's actually from caves, and then it has too many metals and really have to look at the salt you buy. Um, honestly, I think that's true of any food or superfood we buy is you have to be aware. What's interesting is last year I was in India and I flew around India to meet my suppliers and then to meet new suppliers, because I'm always curious, like, what are people finding out of the botanicals that we can use to create an impact for joint pain and for inflammation? And so I met with my supplier who's in South India, and it was so impressive because what they do now is they look at botanicals as pharma in the sense that they want to standardize every aspect of it. So there's no question on trust or efficacy or potency or the fact that it's been tested for heavy metals and microbes and all these things that we worry about when we're putting something in the body. And so when I met with him, I said, hey, you know, I want to make sure that my black pepper and everything I use comes from you. Because I can see this standard is the best standard. And it's so important to me. When I talk to my factory, they're always like, we can get that from China for a tenth of the price. Don't you know, it's easier. Everyone does it. And I'm always like, no, Any ingredient can come adulterated. It's powdered, it's an extract. How would you know what it is? You have to invest in ID testing and then test it further. There's an ingredient called Shilajit. And 10 years ago, when I was building my company, I really wanted shilajit inside my formula. And my factory owner, who's a very good friend of mine, said, look, I went to every conference and I even went to, like, the international spices conferences that I've never gone to to see if I could source this ingredient third party tested and clean, and I couldn't. It more often than not, comes adulterated. I'm not going to let you do this. This is a big liability and problem if you're saying you're using something and you're not. And so I've really appreciated that. So we, we do have to be careful with that.

I would love you to talk about that, that though, because I think that that is another ingredient or substance that's having a moment.

Yeah, Shilajit is having a moment. It's adaptogenic, it's good for vitality, it's good for strength. Shilajit reminds me of ashwagandha. Like for me, ashwagandha is my next plant that I would love to do a PhD on because it is so powerful, it does so much. So shilajit and ashwagandha are similar in that they're adaptogenic, well absorbed by the system. Help with.

What does that mean for people who.

Aren'T familiar with that term? What does adaptogenic mean?

Sure. So adaptogen means any plant and ingredient that you're going to put into the body. Because shilajit is like developed from volcanoes a lot of the time. That's where it's coming from. An adaptogen is something that goes into the system and helps you adapt to stressors or adapts to. Basically, for example, with ashwagandha, if you're stressed and anxious, it calms you down a few notches. If you're depressed and live feeling low, it lifts you up. So it's a thermostat. It has this approach where it gets in the system. It's intelligence supports you where you need it. So even turmeric can be considered adaptogenic because if it's a big problem, turmeric will help with that. Then the medium, then the small, it'll go where it needs to go. And so we've actually seen in the literature that Ashwagandha is as, as effective as 14 different psychoactive drugs when it comes to supporting us in our health journey. So I thought that was interesting, that we can use it for anxiety, we can use it for depression. Obviously see your doctor about these ideas. But I'm curious. The world of ashwagandha I think will definitely explode in the next couple years as we utilize it more as our daily support.

Yeah, Ashwagandha is another one that I feel like probably doesn't get the attention that it deserves. I feel like turmeric people talk about that frequently and it's used frequently, but I don't, I don't know that Ashwagandha gets that same kind of attention. I would love for you to talk about that more.

Yeah. So Ashwagandha has a neurocognitive support aspect to it that I think is very important. So it's supporting our overall brain health. We know that it gives us more strength, gives us more vitality overall. Oftentimes when you look at the Ayurvedic herbs, it's multifaceted, the support that they give, because again, they're adaptogenic. They're going to go in the system and support you where you need it. Once you're good in that arena, it's going to go into another one. And so for mood balancing, I think it's very good. And I also think it's very good for focus. So when I used to have a formula, a capsule with Ashwagandha in it, the men would tell me, wow, I can just focus in and I can tell I can be really focused. And the women would say, I don't get overwhelmed, I can just stay on point. And instead of having this like baseline stress in my life, I'm just more calm about everything that I have to get done. And so I thought that was really interesting. Now one year I put it into my turmeric formula. Cause I was like, oh, let me just make the whole world happy. It's this amazing herb. And it's interesting. I had a whole segment of women who are my closest women around me who are really type A go getters. And they were like, what did you do? It's too calming. I don't need to be Zen in my day. I need to be productive. And so I had to take it out of the main formula because I. If 10 people say that, then there's hundreds out there who are thinking it and just won't call me and tell me. And so now I use it more in a sleep formula and a sleep tea so that it calms you down, helps you relax, it relaxes the mind and body for bed when you use it at nighttime.

Yeah, I agree. And I can feel the difference when I. When I include Ashwagandha in my, in my routine. And admittedly, I'm someone who is not very good at routine at all. And so I'll go through phases of taking supplements and go through phases where I don't take anything at all. I can't remember, can't be bothered, or I run out and I don't replace. And yeah, I'm. I'm a terrible, terrible patient.

I totally get that. I'm like.

And I'm also the cobbler with no shoes.

Yes.

Like the things that I tell everyone, make sure you're doing, I'm often not doing them myself.

Sometimes we run out of time. You know, it's, it's not easy. So I, I'm all about like systems and how do I operationalize it. So it stays days in my life. But some days none of it happens.

Yeah, yeah. And we still have to look at ourselves during those days. Probably more during those days with a lot of love and acceptance.

True.

Right. And the knowledge that it's okay if you don't do everything that you meant to do or was supposed to do in this day. And I'm going to put supposed to do in air quotes because so much of what we're supposed to do is self imposed.

True.

And so, you know, if you get through the necessary stuff, I think they should give yourself a big old hug and a high five.

That's true. It's true. The lists get long. A lot of times our self care lists get really long. And, and as an ayurvedic practitioner, I definitely add on top of it. I'm like, you need to do these 10 things.

Yeah.

And so I always remind people, look, there's the full. Do the whole thing. Oftentimes on the weekend is a good time to do all of it because you have more space and time and you get in the habit of doing some of these habits and then during the week you start adding them in as you can or you just take an hour or half hour if you can of self care in the evening. And it's like your gift to yourself to wind down for a better night's sleep. So I agree with you. Sometimes it's hard to fit it all in, especially if, if you're on camera and doing all this all day, you know, or seeing patients.

So I want to get back to turmeric because turmeric in the world of breast cancer has a lot of controversy associated with it. And it's anywhere from people who have hormone positive tumors are told to not take turmeric. People who are getting chemotherapy are told to not take turmeric or even eat turmeric because most medical oncologists have no idea about diet or nutrients or any of the like. People who are getting radiation are told to not take turmeric because it's anti inflammatory and they believe that it will somehow like powerfully block the effects of the radiation. Actually, I could make a pretty good argument that almost no one needs radiation as part of their cancer treatment. But that's a talk for another day. And people who are on tamoxifen are for sure. Told to not take turmeric. So can you start to unpack any of that and talk about what the concerns might be and what you found, especially in the, in the course of your PhD? I know I'm calling on your, I'm calling on your years ago studies, but I'm hoping that, that we can at least have a discussion around it and people can start to think about how to, how, how to decide what's right for them.

Absolutely. It was in my PhD, which feels quite old now, there was a whole section on turmeric and cancer. And so if you go in PubMed and typed in turmeric and cancer, for example, there is going to be a lot of science and there's positive and negative. Of course. I love all the positives about turmeric. So I love that it's anti, inflammatory, antioxidant. When we have growth factors and things like that, it can impact that it can stop the cell, like I said, cell apoptosis. It's gonna kill cells that don't belong in the body that were meant to die. So it has all those effects. But like you just mentioned, you talked about the more serious aspects of treatments for cancer. And so that's gonna come down to the doctor's comfort level. It's been interesting. I do have multiple oncologists around me in my life who are good friends of ours. And so one of them who only deals with breast cancer is very comfortable recommending turmeric for specific patients. I need to find out what that type was. You might know better, but specific patients. She's like, of course it's beneficial. We should all be recommending it when we're doing cancer treatment of this type of patient. And then others are very gun shy, but they are using it as a adjunct support for the pain and the discomfort and the inflammation that's, you know, causing a lot of symptoms to people during their treatments. It's one of those things where a lot of doctors just don't know much about turmeric and its impact. So they're going to play it safe and just say no. And it's such a big type of treatment that you're doing that you're generally not going to go against your doctor. But it's one of those things where I'd have to go back into the current science a year later and pull like, where are we at now with which types of treatments and how many doctors have studied their safety and then how can I share that with doctors so they can see it?

Yeah, the Sad part is that not much has changed since you did your PhD and that most doctors confuse, I don't know, with no. And the preponderance of the evidence is that turmeric is a chemosensitizer. So if you are going to get chemotherapy, and, you know, I would argue that most people don't get a lot of benefit from chemotherapy. There is a select group who does. And in, in that group, we have learned that turmeric is actually a chemosensitizer. And that because what you spoke about and the, the apoptotic effect of the. These rogue cells or these, these cells that are misprogrammed or malaligned or whatever you want to say, because cancer isn't really an other. Cancer is a part of us. These, these started off as native cells that in their evolution went awry because they went into survival mode. Because cancer is a normal response to an abnormal environment. And we have so many environmental inputs now that are abnormal. Yes, right. We are surrounded by this chemical electromagnetic field that is really destructive absolutely for our health. So these cells that are already misprogrammed. Is that a word? I don't even know if that's a word, but you know what I mean. These kind of transformed cells, these are the cells that will, you know, in, in the right environment, will undergo apoptosis. And turmeric is one of the ways to create that vulnerability of the cell and allow the chemotherapy to be more effective while at the same time protecting the normal cells. Because that's really, ideally what we want for someone who is undergoing chemotherapeutic treatment is we want maximum effect on the cells that need to go and minimum effect on our normal cells. And that's why it's so important that people fast before chemotherapy so that those, those normal cells, they can actually go into a resting state, go into a resting phase, but cancer cells cannot. They've lost their feedback mechanism. They're in survival mode. All they're thinking of is growth, growth, growth, growth, growth. They don't care if the growth is correct. They don't care if the duplication is correct. They've lost that kind of feedback.

Right.

But at the same time, we can take advantage of that because they, they're not able to turn off their growth. So they become particularly vulnerable in this situation. When, you know it, the. If the fasted cells have turned off their metabolism, they're in this resting state, then they don't get so affected by the chemotherapy. But the cells that can't rest too. So, you know, that is one very important part of making chemotherapy more effective and less harmful. And turmeric can be very chemosensitizing for these rogue cells. It's the same thing with radiation. It can create further instability in these cells so that they are more vulnerable to radiation while protecting the normal cells. Because what we don't want to do in the course of cancer treatment is make the patient patient worse, of course. Right. We don't want to do extra damage that doesn't need to be done.

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I do know the reason why it is discouraged with tamoxifen, because tamoxifen is a pro drug. So tamoxifen is not in its active form and unless you convert it to endoxifen, which is being done by the CYP2D6 enzyme and CYP3A4 enzyme, unless you convert it to endoxifen, it's not in its active form and you won't get benefit from the drug. And it is believed that turmeric affects those enzymes, the CYP3A4 and the CYP2D6. So that's the reason that people are told not to take it while they're, while they're on tamoxifen. I can also argue that tamoxifen is of very limited benefit and that it is, in fact a synthetic estrogen. And we may be better off just giving people estrogen and allowing the cells to function the way that they're supposed to function.

Wow.

So.

I think that this is one of those places where, I don't know is substituted for, where no is substituted for, I don't know. And I, I think that we're doing people a disservice.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's hard because in this moment, people are going to go with what the practitioner says. That's why it's our job to go out there and educate.

Yeah, absolutely. Although I did. Here's, here's a shameless plug for my book, the Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer, because I did want to provide women with the facts and perspective and allow them to take back some of their, some of their power and participate, actively participate in the decision making from an educated place.

Absolutely.

Because that's not what's happening now. And oftentimes people are rushed into treatment and they make quick decisions that they don't realize at the time will affect them for the rest of their life. Most women do survive breast cancer and life is long and it's especially long if you make these decisions and do things that you're going to regret for the rest of your life and sometimes sadly, these decisions shorten the rest of their life.

True.

Right. Because all of these treatments have long term ramifications.

Absolutely. Absolutely. It. In the entire Ayurvedic perspective, we're trying to bring balance and wholeness to the system. So the idea of doing something that invasive to the system goes directly against what I teach. Of course we're in modern day times, we have these tools that are newer, but I'm very much a fan of let's be fusionary, let's bring these worlds together, let's fuse east and west, where if you are going to take that western solution because it's the solution that you believe you need to take or you know you need to take, how much of the eastern and really longevity functional medicine tools can we use? Fasting, we know is going to really shift the cellular health and the, the system and the metabolics of our system. So why not use these types of tools alongside what you're talking about?

Yeah. You have a book coming out yourself.

Yes.

Can you tell me about your book and why you wrote it and who you wrote it for?

Absolutely. So I have a hay house book coming out January 2026 and I'm so excited about it. It's been my life's dream to write hay house books. So the fact that I, I get to do that is the honor unto itself. I have been teaching about ayurveda for about 20 years and my whole goal with Ayurveda is to show people that we can bring this lifestyle into our lives. We can build a rhythm around it. And so the whole book is about inflammation and how understanding your elemental dosha can help you apply that into every aspect of your life and change your complete lifestyle. So out of Ayurveda, the six pillars that I teach mainly are your dosha or your constitution, which is decided at birth. You might be driven more by the element of air, fire or earth. And so knowing that is really important because it helps you direct how you manage your life. We talk a lot about circadian rhythm and the circadian clock, nature's clock, and how if we defy nature's clock, that's why we create so much dis ease in the system. And if we just flow downstream with nature, life gets easier. And so really teaching that clock is really important to me. Then I teach about the Soth Vic diet, which is like taking your yoga practice off the mat and into the kitchen. So very Whole food nourishing. But a lot of what I teach is how to eat and when to eat. Almost as important as what you eat is that piece of that puzzle. And then we teach a lot about self care rituals, the self care rituals you can do every single day that are detoxing, that are supportive of your gut health. Because we know detoxing and gut health is key even for your topic around breast cancer and health. And then finally we teach a lot around gut health. Gut health is the center of Ayurveda. So we teach that you have this campfire inside of you called agni and that digestive fire. It's your job to build it, maintain it. That's your entire support for processing and metabolizing everything and then getting the byproduct of it, which is oh just. Or your vitality and energy. And then finally I teach a lot about super spices because I'm really passionate about turmeric and the spices and how we can build tea time is me time or different habits into our lives to get those spices in. So the whole book is about how to bring this lifestyle into your life, how to, how to bring self care and a self love aspect back into your life so you feel like your most whole self. And then as women, how we can be truly sovereign when it comes to our health. Because like you, I think we are so misinformed. We're given very few choices around our health. So I always have to put like my warrior gear on when I'm told a diagnosis and I'm like, no, I will go talk to 10 doctors. And I didn't even like their answers. And it happened around a fibroid. And I was like, no, we're not doing a hysterectomy on me. And then I get on my horse and I, I find my solution and, and I always fuse east and west, even if I find a minimally invasive solution. In my case, I did fibroid embolism. How am I going to show up so healthy, have a surgery and then move right on using the Ayurvedic solution so I'm healed and healthy again. And so that's always my wish for everyone is how do you stay so healthy? There's no problems and problems come along, but how do we address them properly without damaging our system too much or sacrificing too much from ourselves and then move on a really healthy, robust system again because of how we prepared for it? And so that's very much in line with what you just said, which was, I think we can show up differently to these things. Ready? And thus get a different result and a different outcome.

Yeah, I want to back up to the air and the fire and the earth. Can you talk about that a little more? I just think this is so fascinating.

Yes. So anyone who's into personality tests, human design, enneagram any of those types of personality tests, astrology would be into understanding themselves a little deeper. And in Ayurveda we always do a dosha quiz on people and we want to know what is your elemental constitution. Like I said, there's a circadian clock, which means we are nature, nature is us. And so we pull the five elements from nature. Earth, ether, fire, water, earth. And so the first body type is called a vata or vata here in the West. And a vata person is primarily air and ether. That means they have all the properties of air, wind. They're constantly in motion. So physically this is someone who's thin and wiry. They might be taller or shorter than anyone in their demographic. They have small bones, finer features, maybe a long oval face, smaller eyes. This is someone who's always in motion. Like they love to be in motion, they love to be exercising. They tend to be a busy body, their mind tends to go a hundred miles a minute. They tend to start things but not finish them. They tend to be really creative artists emotionally. Sometimes they can tend towards anxiety and overwhelm because they're always in motion. They also have health issues at times if they're imbalanced, like insomnia, constipation because of the dryness of that air in motion, dry and brittle hair and nails. And what's another one, anxiety is a big one for avata person. And so my job as the practitioner is show you how to stay really grounded and eat whole nourishing meals and the right foods and spices to bring into your life to create more balance. Another thing about vata, they can go the whole day without eating. So they can just run through the day, green juice and oh, I ate some carrots and I'm fine. Most of the other doshas cannot do that like a vata. So I, I usually say, look, three square meals and that's actually really hard homework for them. Then you have a pitta person. A bita person is medium bodied, tends to have reddish hair, reddish skin. They tend to which I'm looking at you, I'm like, whoa, I've never met a reddish skin tone and red haired person. Okay, classic bit though. Finally the scripture works. Or if they don't have the red hair, like me, it's early graying, so just depends a bit though. Person's medium bodied. This is someone who is fire with some water. So they are ambitious, go getters, entrepreneurial, they're driven, sharp in their language, like fire. They are big appetite people. They are ready to eat and they get hangry if they don't eat. This is someone who, if they're imbalanced, is kind of like a volcano. A fifth person will erupt, explode, melt down. Everyone around them is kind of collateral damage because if you're not ready for it, they can be pretty sharp to everyone around them. And so if a person's job is stay balanced, stay cool, stay fed, hydrating with electrolytes, coconut water, sweet foods cool down your system, they cool down anxiety and they cool the systems. That's why that people love sweet foods. And so our job is to understand which sweet foods are good for us and which aren't. Like rice can have a sweet effect, or coconut water, banana, like do the good, not the bad. And then finally there's Gapha. And a Guffa person is earth and water. And so a Guffa person is such Earth energy. They tend to be bigger boned, stronger, they can lift heavier. This is someone who isn't gonna be thin and wiry. They have oily hair, curly hair, round features, round eyes, round face. This is someone who tends to be very one thing at a time. So they're very, they're like a little slower in their speech. They get one thing done at a time. They have deep slumber. So they have the most phenomenal sleep of all of us. They are fiercely loyal and loving. So think of it as like grandma energy, Mother Earth energy. Your man might be a Guffa because he's so Earth energy and grounding for you. And then a Guffa person has a tendency towards a slow metabolism. So we have to support them to move their energy first thing. And when they sit down for the day, they're done. And don't expect anything out of a Guffa once they've sat down. It's like Mother Earth sat on the couch. She's not going to get up for you and she's not going to get up for anything else. And so it's so important to understand what is your dosha or constitution from birth. You're born with your constitution. And I have the dosha quiz at my website, Dr. Shivani.com so a lot of people just take the quiz and they're like, how did you know that that was me? And there's some combination. You have a primary and a secondary dosha. That's most of us or some people are three doshik and they have all three doshas equally. And what happens is over time, due to trauma or life events or big changes in our life, we can become really imbalanced. So for example, I had kids and I gained 40 pounds and I became a really guffa person for a few years and my friends and consultants around me were like, how do you get your mojo back? Like, where's Shivani? Like I know what you used to be. And I was like, well, I don't know, I'm just, I'm a mom now. Like this is a different mode, I don't know. So I really worked hard. It took me a while to get the tools in place to bring my dosha back into balance. And when I'm in alignment I can feel it. It's like a fuel unlike any other. And so that's my goal is to show everyone, but women especially, we can understand our doshik constitution, we can calibrate it constantly, we can stay balanced and then we feel more whole. But we also are very self accepting. Then of this is my template of who I am and I'm not going to battle against it, I'm going to embrace it.

That is fascinating. I mean I'm, I'm, I'm the fifth to a T. Yeah, you are Pitta.

You're like red hair, red skin, like a glow to you. Like yeah, of course, I mean but.

Like all of it. Big appetite, volcano, love, sweet foods. Like I, I mean everything you said, I was like check, check, check. And really nothing else resonated? Well, maybe dry hair and dry nails. But I mean it's really amazing to me that it's a beautiful science so embodied by, you know, three silos.

Yeah. Everyone's a primary and a secondary. And it's interesting in a consultation I'll do a much bigger dosha quiz and you'll, you'll start to see like wow, they're really physically pitta but sometimes mentally they're more vata and which is me sometimes because the world is so social media and high speed driven, I can get vata imbalance in the mind and so I'm always like, calm down Recenter, get off Facebook. You know, so you can understand how to constantly calibrate your energy based on how you feel.

Yeah. Although that is sage advice to everyone is get off Facebook and Instagram and you know this, all of this social media and the constructs of social media and what is beautiful and what is important and what is right and what is wrong and what to believe and what to say and, you know, it's just become such a highly curated world and I mean, I'm as guilty of it as anyone because I play the game. Because you, what choice do you have? You know, I mean, if I, if I don't play the game, then no one knows about me and, and I can't help people if they don't know about me. Right? But it's hard.

Yeah, it is hard. I have a lot of guardrails on it. So I take circadian walks every day. That's my meditation in motion. I'm not a good sit down and meditate girl. So I just walk in nature. I will try to just leave my phone at home. If I know the kids are fine, I'll be like, listen, I'm walking up and down the street, you can find me. And that way I don't even have the EMF tie in of my phone keeping me hooked in. I'll walk and I'll just go looking for five things in nature that are beautiful. And by the third or fourth one, I'm like, wow, nature's incredible. Gosh. And I'm in this blissed out state. Or when I drive, I try not to touch my phone. No returning phone calls, nothing. Because it's such a beautiful time to be in silence. Otherwise we're just engaged every other minute of the day. And then my most favorite one is something I call tea time is me time. And so I have tea at least probably five times a day, different herbal teas or green jasmine tea. And I, what I love doing is pausing in my day. I have my hot tea, it's warming and it's comforting. And I always take that moment to ask myself. It's like a mindful moment. How do I feel today? What do I need to do today for today to be better? Do I need to cancel anything this week that's not in alignment or doesn't feel good? And my intuition will come back with interesting answers like, you forgot to take your supplements today. No, you should not see that person. Because you know how sometimes we agree to things but we don't want to agree to it? All the time will be like, no, it was a no. You called it a yes. Be clear, that's not healthy and that's not good for you. Don't go to that conference. Don't go to. Don't force yourself to do things that don't fit and so I love training my intuition to just be a yes or no on most things. But tea time is me time is the best time to. To get that answer.

And I think this is a lesson for everyone. And I hear every single one of my mentors as mentors say this to me because I can be very distracted by shiny objects.

Me too.

That's. That's one part of me that is ever present. I am a people pleaser. Inherently a people pleaser. So even though I have this explosive personality, then I feel really badly afterwards that I offended anyone by my, you know, tornado of the self.

Yeah.

And. And I really never learned boundaries or how to say no, which is probably part of the people pleasing. So I find myself in this predicament all the time where I said yes to something that I should have said no to. And the rule for everyone needs to be if it's not a hell yes, it's a no.

Correct.

And we all need to be living by that.

We do. Are you an eldest child?

Yes.

Yeah, me too. It's interesting bit does might all have shiny object syndrome because we're so passionate and ambitious into whatever we're into in this season of life. And then I just wonder if it's an eldest child thing. And you couple all that together and it creates this personality that's like, I want to impact the whole world. I have to participate in all the things. But I also crave the opposite, which is silence and peace and wholeness and groundedness. And so how do you fit in both into your day and into your week?

Yeah. Well, I hope that you do. I haven't mastered that yet. And I'm still as everyone is, but I'm a work in progress. Right. And I'm still figuring out how to find the balance. Especially when you're building and growing something big. Absolutely right. Because it's hard and there's only so many hours in a day. And I haven't given up my medical practice yet, so I'm still seeing patience and building perfection and running two businesses. And it's a lot. It's a lot. And it's easy to forget about yourself. And it's still easy, even though it should be the opposite. But it's still easier for me to say yes than worry about the ramifications of saying no.

Sure. Absolutely.

Even though I do know that saying yes to an external means I'm saying no to myself.

True. Very true. And I think that happens to all of us. And. And that's why in Irv, though I love that we teach a rhythm. So it's a rhythm that you build into your life and you can come back to it constantly when you fall off the horse. So a lot of times I show women this is how you build the ayurvedic rhythm and lifestyle. And they're like, you know, I started falling off the horse. I could tell I was getting more inflamed and I wasn't feeling good anymore. And then I have a little Shivani on my shoulder and she says, fit in some self care, do something for you, even if it's a little act of self love. And then it gets me back on the track. So that's my dream, is that everyone has this angel on your shoulder that's like, hey, you come first. Little things add up. Maybe it's take a break and have tea a couple times a day. And that's where you start. Because I can have tea in meetings or in podcasts and it's like, oh, I'm still comforting and taking care of myself, doing good for myself while I am doing all the things I committed to. Which oftentimes, like you said, is for others, not always for us.

Yeah. So I know you had. Your book is coming out in January 2026 and I will be sharing with everyone about that book. But in the meantime, where can people find you for sure?

So my website is my name Shivani Gupta.com it's S H I V a N I G U p T a and on instagram I'm at Dr. Shivani Gupta. I have the fusionary health podcast because I love meeting practitioners like you who teach about things that we all need to know for our health. And I have fusionary formulas F U S I O N A R Y. That's my supplement company. And I made a special code, Dr. Jen. So Dr. J E N N will give everyone 15% off on their first order.

Yeah.

And so everyone knows it's D R J E N N. And we'll be sure to put all of that in the show notes. And I thank you so much for joining me today and for doing what you do. It's really beautiful. I share your love of all of those Indian spices and I love the tie in with that person and who you are and who your spirit is and how to support that individual spirit so that we are not changing it because we can't change it, but we are helping that spirit to be the best version.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast today.

It was my pleasure. And thank you for joining us today. And if you know someone who would like to hear this, please share it with them. And I will be back with you next week, same time, same place. It's Dr. Jen. Bye for now.