Uncover the Secrets to Aging Strong, Healthy, and Confident with Natalie Jill & Dr. Jenn Simmons

We have a super hot person with a super hot topic this week because we are talking about healthy aging. And I know that it's on all of our minds. I mean, it is really what everyone is thinking about because we cannot stop the hands of time. Right. Like, they keep going, but we can do it in ways that feel wonderful. And I have someone who is doing it better than anyone. So I am going to welcome Natalie Jill to the show. Natalie, I am so excited to have you here and to have this discussion. So welcome.

Always love chatting with you. I loved having you on my podcast, so I'm happy to dive in.

Yeah. So we're going to have a lot of fun today, and we're going to help a lot of people because doing this right and aging gracefully, beautifully, healthfully is what's on everyone's mind. So. But I do want to back up about 20,000 steps and talk about how did you get into this space? I mean, what. What made you interested?

Yeah, so it's interesting. So I just like everybody else, I don't think of myself as special when it comes to aging or knowledge around fat loss, fitness, health, all of those things. So I was. I'll just take you back about 17 years. I was working in corporate America, um, and I was something totally unrelated to health, fitness. And I had lost my own way as a new mom. Um, I was going through a divorce. It was back in 2007, 2008, when the housing market had collapsed. I had a lot of stuff going on in my life, a lot of circumstances. And that'll become relevant as we chat about circumstances and how we let them define us. But in that time of circumstances for me, the weight gain, the divorce, the. The financial struggles, all of those things, I turned to the one thing that I could actually control, and that was my own health and my own body. And I started just hyper focusing on my health, my fitness being better for myself and my daughter at the time. And as I changed, I started inspiring and changing other people. So it started with a fat loss journey for myself and a fitness journey in my late 30s and showing other women that they could do that. And I built a brand sort of by accident, helping other women do the same. Now, I don't mean to skip over that part. That was a very significant part of my story. But as I became this fitness expert, this health expert, all those things, as I aged and got older, being almost 53 at the time of us recording this right now, things changed. My interest changed, my wanting to help people changed in a different way it no longer became this interest to help people get a six pack or how do I get you to do these like, more pull ups like that? It just seemed a little bit empty. And as I went through my changes towards midlife, I went into detective mode on, like, what's happening here and how. How is it that we chase this certain way of looking or feeling and then we get slapped upside the head with, you know, perimenopause and then menopause and all gravity and all of the things. So I really started to dive into being a detective, for the most part, is what I call it. I'm kind of like a health detective. And I shifted my podcast to something called Midlife Conversations. And it just opened up this whole avenue, this whole different way to connect with women about what's happening to us in midlife. And I know you just introduced me as I'm aging well and I'm doing it gracefully. I don't know that I'm doing it well or that I'm even doing it gracefully. I'm just doing it from a place of being a detective and thinking, what do I want for myself and how can I create that and how can I help other women thrive in midlife as well?

Yeah, you talked about this transition and where your focus was then and where your focus is now. And I think that that is happening to a lot of. And can you speak to how things actually change for women as they go from their 30s to their 40s? Oh, yeah, 50s. Because we have to start to think about it differently because our bodies function differently and our needs change.

Totally. And I'll preface that with, I really didn't know what I didn't know until I. Until I passed 50. Like, I thought in my 40s, I had this down. I'm like, this is crazy where I'm going to breeze through perimenopause and menopause. This is easy. Like, what are people talking about? It's just a matter of being tighter on your diet and doing more with your workouts and just continue eating healthy. And I didn't understand what I didn't understand. And I really shifted that thought because a lot of things do hit us that we cannot control, but our perspective on it and what we do about it, we can control. So I'll just give you a few examples. A couple of years ago, I started getting injured. Like, a lot of injuries, not just one. I mean, first it started with a ruptured disc in my back. Um, and then after that, I navigated that. I tore A bicep. And then I broke my foot. I just like a lot of injuries back to back. Needed a lot of different surgeries to repair. And I started thinking, why am I getting more injured? Like, what's that about? And then you start coupling that with. I call it the midlife midsection. Like, this thickening that happens, like. Like what's happening there? Is that just hormones or what's going on there? I also started to notice, like, changes in my skin. And then you look at gravity kicking in. I mean, gravity is a thing, and it's starts kicking him. So I started noticing these things. And what I noticed most about those things is, why do these things change me so much? Why do these things upset me? Why do we care so much about these things? And I started to see these, like, two divides of women. Either women that are just accept it all and age gracefully and what's wrong with you? For the kid that. For caring. And then I see this other camp of women, like, I'm going to fix everything. I'm just going to. I'm going to Botox it up and filler it up and fix everything, and I'm just going to fight it. And there's like, these two camps. And I thought, I'm neither of those camps. I'm actually somewhere in the middle. And I really entered in this stage of thinking, what do I actually want for myself? Like, what do I actually envision for this part of my life here? Am I going to keep chasing, trying to be 30 again? Because that's not really realistic, or am I going to figure out how I can actually thrive and step into a different chapter of my life now? Because it feels like a trap either way. It feels like I have to surrender and just let it all go and not care. That didn't feel good. And then the chase of it doesn't feel good either. So it was this weird place of what do I actually want for myself and who am I? And I don't know if this resonates with you or your listeners. I hope it does. That you get into this place. Some people call it a midlife crisis. It's really a midlife becoming. Like, who am I really? Like, what am I? If it's not just these things?

Yeah, well, I mean, I think that a lot of people struggle on that, on that continuum, that spectrum of total acceptance. And, you know, this is what it is, and this is what it looks like to be 40 and 50 and 60, and I just have to deal with it.

And.

Which, incidentally, I mean, is only being reinforced by our conventional medical system, which has no idea how to help you to optimize your health. And so when you come in and you say you're tired and you gained weight and you're not sleeping well, their response to all of that is kind of not as crass, but what do you expect? You're getting older.

Exactly. And that's.

This is what happens, right?

Yeah. So for. So an example of how that was happening to me is things were changing. And I was just told every doctor, oh, just accept it. This is your age. And I thought, but this is not who I am. It's not. It's not about what it looked like, it's about what it felt like. I didn't feel like myself. And it was not. I wasn't getting easy answers from doctors. In fact, one just a small example of this is I started having a blood sugar dysregulation. Well, I have a heavy amount of type 2 diabetes and metabolic dysfunction and dementia in my family. Like, that's. We have a whole track record of it. So when my blood sugar started creeping up, I thought, this is odd. And I did what I just knew to do. I just started trying to control it. Like, I'm just going to go strict keto. I'm going to be so strict. I've got this under control. And I. And I couldn't get it under control. It was not regulating. I went to traditional doctors and it's here, you need metformin, or endocrinologist looks at you for a second and says, you know, oh, just go on. Metformin. There was no, like, look at what. But what's actually causing this? What's creating this? In my case, what was causing it was a huge gut dysbiosis, Like a whole problem in my gut. And when I was able to clear that out and fix that, my blood sugar actually regulated. But I only figured that out because I went into detective detective mode and didn't take the first answer from my doctor. And I find this again and again with conventional medicine. And I understand there's a place for it, and I understand there's a place for Western medicine. I'm not against it, but I think when it comes to us changing in midlife, we have to become a detective and not just take these answers. It's because of your age. Here's a prescription. We get to decide what is it that we want for our life? What do we want? And what is the root. Root of making these changes? And let's go in and Figure out how we can optimize that for hormones is a perfect example of that. If you go to a conventional doctor, they look at your hormones, they'll say, oh, you're normal for a postmenopausal woman. Like you're normal for that. Great. I didn't ask to be normal. I want to be optimal. So what is, what were my hormone levels when I was 35? That's what I'm interested in. I don't want to know what a declining postmenopausal women, woman's hormones should be because that doesn't feel good to me.

Although I do want to be clear because this ends up being a really relevant point in the postmenopausal population. And most people don't get to me because everything's going hunky dory. Right. Most people get to me because they have had a major, major, major fallout. Right?

Yes.

Most people come to me because they have breast cancer. So I fully believe in hormone replacement, even in the breast cancer population. So I want to say that and be clear. But never am I trying to restore them to premenopausal levels. Yeah. And I Learned this from Dr. David Rosensweet who basically, I mean he's, he has the menopause method and the school for bioidentical hormone replacement. And he, his research over 50 years is that you do not have to get women to premenopausal hormone levels in order to get tremendous benefit. Because just giving them small amounts will protect the heart, protect the brains, protect the bones, protect the mood, protect the vagina, protect the uterus, protect the bladder, all the things. Because really what we're trying to do is keep women out of wheelchairs and adult diapers and nursing homes. And we can do that with a little bit of hormone and a lot of work on behalf of the person.

Because that makes a lot of sense. And so when I, so I'll explain when I say optimal and I, maybe I was a poor example to say 35 year old woman, but I want to know optimal for that. And like having a level of 20 of my estrogen is not optimal for me that would not be. But it would be average and be looked at as normal within some western medicine standards.

Yeah.

So to me, I look at it and I, and my, I can tell you with my own hormone replacement, I'm not at those 35 year old levels, but I'm definitely not at that 24 either. So it's, it's better. So it's becoming a detective. And this is, I Think also very different for different women. Like, for me, I thought, this is not how my energy is supposed to feel. This is not how I envision aging. I don't want to have all these injuries. I don't want to be having all these things. So it became important to decide what is it I actually want for my life, and how can I create a different version of that?

Yeah, absolutely. So I know that you've had a big weight loss journey, and we talk about weight gain as being one of the major, major risk factors for both the development of breast cancer and for recurrence. Yes. So can you start, because you are an expert in this area. So can you talk to us about weight loss and how it looks different in different phases of life? Because it's a challenge all the way across, but it's a challenge in different ways.

Yes, absolutely, it is. So, first of all, what worked for us in our 20s and 30s and 40s is not going to be the same as we get older. So that is true. But there's just a few things that I want people to realize. Like when we say things like, your metabolism slows down when you age, people will argue and say, well, no, it doesn't actually slow down when you age. Well, it does if you lose muscle mass. And if you lose muscle mass, which we absolutely do, as we age, you're burning less calories at rest. Your body's not working as optimal, so you are going to be more likely to pack on the pounds. Also, as your hormones shift, you're going to pack on those pounds. So muscle loss, your. Your hormones are shifting. And then also it's the load of things packing up. And like, so, for example, we talk about toxic load with things that might not affect you in your 30s, but that load of it over time is going to affect you as you're older. So things that we used to eat or do, we maybe recovered from it a lot faster. Our body process it a lot quicker. That changes as we age. Take something as simple as digestive enzymes. When you're 35, you start losing your ability to process and break down the food correctly. So now you're eating the same thing and you're not actually processing and getting all the nutrients from it. You're going to store a lot of that as fat. So there is a lot of truth, truth to it gets harder as we age. But what is absolutely possible is to counter that with being on point with things. And being on point doesn't mean being perfect at things. I can break down exactly what Being on point means because it's not what most people think. Do you want me to go into kind of like what that would be? Okay, so the first step, and this is what I'll take women through when they come, because they'll say, what do I need to eat? What do I need to eat? And what do I need to do?

Yeah.

Which is the action.

That's what everyone wants, right? Just tell me what to do.

Yes. And here's what I'm going to say, and I'll share some things to do. But here's the problem. If we just start operating from taking lots of actions, we're not going to actually get anywhere. We have to change the foundation first. I say it's kind of like building your dream house. If you build it on sand, it's not going to last. It's going to collapse. We have to change the foundation first. So what does that mean? The foundation means, number one, we have to change our belief set around what is possible for us with aging. So the first thing I tell women is, you actually have to decide that you want something different. Just like when they come to you, Dr. Jennifer, they say, I don't know, I, you know, I've got breast cancer. I just don't see how this is going to work. It's just doomsday. My whole family's had it. It's almost like they've decided that it's just not going to have a healing option. And that's a very different patient then comes to me that says, no, this is not me. This is not part of me. I don't want it. This is a temporary blip. What do I need to do? If you look at those two patients, I pretty sure you probably see a difference in how they attack all treatment, how they.

Absolutely. But you know, the funny thing is you can have two things happening at the same time. Like, I have these people that say, my grandmother had breast cancer, my mother had breast cancer. Now I have breast cancer, but I'm going to beat it. But then you talk about the other things that go along with it. Well, everyone in my family is overweight, so I'm going to be overweight. And everyone in my family has elevated lipids, so I'm going to have elevated lipids. So they're like, willing to separate the breast cancer set of beliefs, but not all the other things that they don't even realize contributed to breast cancer. And yes, they could have broken that pattern and not gotten here.

That's right.

But almost all of this is generational.

Pattern breaking absolutely is. So this is. So I call this when I say I kill fat for a living. I kill false assumed truths. FAT stands for false assume truth. And that is that belief set that we've been holding on to, that we think has been serving us our whole life. The first thing I do with women in my programs is we break down that part. You have to actually decide you want a different reality for yourself. Now, somebody listening to this right now might feel triggered by that. Like, what do you mean? It's not. They taking it on as. It's my mindset. It's my fault. I'm not saying that. I'm saying we're very wired and we have these beliefs and we have these. This proof of all these beliefs. The first thing we have to do is decide we want something different. We have to make a decision that something else is going to be a different reality for me. I'm going to be fit despite what I've seen in my family. I'm going to be healthy despite this. I'm going to release the weight despite this. Like, you have to believe and decide that that's that. Not. I'm going to try or I'm going to consider. I'm going to think about. That's not the same. It's making a decision.

Yeah.

Part two of that.

Chris Work. I don't know if you know Chris, but Chris Work, he has an amazing story. He's a guy who I think at either 27 or 29, I can't remember, was diagnosed with stage three colon cancer. Wow. And he refused. He had surgery, but then refused chemotherapy and went a very natural route to heal himself. He has a very big following. And he says to people who come to him for guidance about cancer, the first thing he says is you have to believe that you can be well.

Oh, my gosh, if you didn't even know his words. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's the first thing he says. You have to really, truly believe.

Yes.

That you can be. Well, the foundation.

Yes. And I've seen this time and time when I was getting injured and I had all those injuries and I kept. I kept getting. I kept making a joke. I'm injury Barbie. I'm injury Barbie. I keep. And I kept getting injured. So I was like, wait a minute. I'm not taking my own advice here. I've decided I don't get injured. I'm. I'm still. I don't get. Doesn't happen. And so it is a focus shift. It is a different belief set. So I tell women you've got to, you almost have to fake it till you make it. You have to just start saying it and saying, I'm becoming the type of person who. And you have to believe it. So it's decision first. Literally it's a decision. The second part of that is getting very clear on what it is you actually want for yourself. And I'll tell you, when it comes to fat loss, I, what I'll hear from women is I don't want to be fat or I want to be skinny. Well, that's not an actual vision. That's just a very subjective like, okay, what does that mean? A vision is being very clear on what that looks like, feels like, is like on the other side. So describing what that is like, I would describe the way I want to feel. I'm not trying to look 30. That's not my goal at all. I want to be able to move with ease. I want to be able to be active. I want to be able to walk wherever I want. I want to be able to enjoy my workouts. I want to be able to have my focus and my energy and be clear headed. I want to be disease free. Like I'm very clear on what that vision is. I want to travel a lot with my husband. Like there's a lot of things that I'm clear on the vision. So when you're clear on the vision for what you want for yourself, it makes it a lot easier to start taking the actions I'm going to speak into. And some people will hear this logically, but they won't actually do it because I see them go, well, what do.

I have to eat?

What do I have to eat? And I say, until you actually change that foundation and you get clear on your decision and what you're actually after, the vision you want for yourself, it's going to be very hard to change things. So that's just so like with your patients. I'm sure you're doing this on some level. Like what, what does that look like on the other side of healthy?

I mean, the very first conversation that we have is tell me what we're told. What did we accomplish in this last year that we worked together? Right? And we're just meeting. We're just meeting. But I want to know what do they see a year from now? Because when you start with the end in mind, you know exactly how to.

That's exactly right. So then the next question comes to, okay, but how now? So the how is important and the how is the steps are important, but it's the lens you're looking through for these steps. It's also the. The beliefs that you have while you take these actions and these steps. And I'm just going to give you a little example. Most women can relate to this. So you've had a time that you went into a gym in your life. Sometime in your life. Every woman's had this where you felt yuck about yourself. You went in, you felt yuck. You're looking at everybody else in the gym going, oh, I have so far to go. I don't like the way that I look. That girl's outfit's cute. She's intimidating. Whatever. You feel this. How was your workout that day? Pretty much sucks. It sucks because you're in this belief set of, this sucks. Why am I here? I'm tired. I don't want to do this. And then you could think of another day where you actually had a very powerful experience. Maybe it's your workout. Something's up. I want you to think about how you were in your mindset before you walked into that place. Like, that's the easiest way I can explain that. Mindset shift. So the first thing we have to do before taking any actions is make sure we're in the right state. I don't mean physical state. I mean, like, mentally. What's the state that you're in? Are you in a position of, I can do this. I'm changing for the good. I'm, you know, healing myself. I'm getting healthy. I'm releasing the weight. And I say releasing, by the way, because when we say lose, we're gonna find it again. So I say release the weight. Yeah. So are you in that state. State before you actually take the actions? And then you start taking the actions, which I'll get into a few of them on top of that layer of your being in decision and vision. And there's a lot of ways to get you in that space, but one of the big ways is gratitude. Just being clear on what's actually working. Another way is the mind trick of saying things like, I'm becoming the type of person who. I'm becoming the type of person who's. Who is an anomaly. I'm becoming the type person that healed. I'm becoming the type person who releases weight easily. I'm becoming the type of person who loves to cook. I'm becoming the type of person who. Whatever works out daily. So what is that? And there's tricks you can do to get you there. Like, one of the things I love is I call them decision boards. Some people call them vision boards. I call them decision boards. So having something visual that has where you want to go because your body doesn't know what's actually real and what you are believing. And if you don't believe me on that, just close your eyes for a minute and imagine biting a lemon and what happens. Yeah, that's good. That's the same thing that happens literally when you have a vision of what you want for your life. So if you can get yourself in a state, whether it's looking at pictures, meditating, listening to music, whatever it is, that state is where you want to take actions from. One of the things I used to do back in my 30s when I was struggling with my own weight is I had this vision board and I had very fit girls on there. I had happy mom and daughter. I had happy, like all the things that I wanted that wasn't in my life right then. And I would look at that board and say, okay, if I was the girl living in this board right now, what actions would I need to take? What would I be taking? And the answer to that question was the girl on the board that's super fit. She wasn't sitting on the couch eating soda and chips and watching tv. The girl on the board was walking on the beach. She was active. She was eating healthy foods. So it was. It would change. I would act like I'm that girl on that board. So whatever we have to do to get ourself in that mindset, that state first is the key piece, I believe in energy. And that energy is really loud based on what you're telling yourself.

Yeah. So absolutely. And the interesting part of that is that when you are putting yourself in that mindset, you're actually putting yourself in a parasympathetic state. And that is the state of healing, that is the state of rest and repair, that is the state of health optimization, as opposed to the sympathetic state, which is the state that most of us are walking around in the majority of the time, or way too much of the time, because we're really only built to be in that sympathetic fight or flight state.

That makes sense.

That danger state for 5% of the time. Yeah. And we are in it way more than that because our lives are such that we are constantly surrounded by these veritable sable toothed tigers.

Yeah, it makes sense.

And so by doing this and by creating that imagery and creating like a genuine feeling of safety and pleasure in your body, it completely changes the chemistry. And that will translate into a lot. Because as we talk about the continuum which leads people to chronic disease, diseases like breast cancer, that is a result of spending many years in that stress dominant state.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

This is freeing you from not just excess weight, it's freeing you from a lot more than that.

So good. So good. There's a movie that I watched that I'm gonna recommend. It's gonna sound funny. It's like one of a chick flick movie, but it was. It's so the example of what I'm talking about. It's Amy Schumer film, but it was called I Feel Pretty. Have you ever seen that? Heard of it? I loved it. So. So for those of you that didn't watch it, I highly recommend you watch it. But the, the theory behind it was she's basically in a bike class. Like she's doing a spinning class. And she's. You can feel her walking in feeling overweight and bad about herself. And she's kind of like looking at the other girls and having the jealousy come up.

Being small, keeping her personality small. Yeah, because she, she feels inferior to everyone else in the room.

She falls and bumps her head and wakes up like, so amnesia wakes up and she thinks she's a supermodel. Like literally thinks she's a supermodel. And her whole life changes just because of her belief set. And that movie was so good and so telling to me because it's so true. We. It's our belief set that dictates how we show up. It dictates what happens in our life. And I believe it's the same with our body too. It's that same thing. So going back to that lemon analogy, if you think of biting a lemon and you, if you. And you feel your mouth salivating, you'll know that, that what I'm saying is real. Like that is.

Can you drink my lemon water? So I have a reality.

Yeah, so this is so. And I check myself a lot with this where I'm, you know, because I get into circumstance all the time. Like this is. This is happening. This is not you. But I have to remind myself, like I can change my thoughts. So then we look at like the actual actions. Like you absolutely have to take actions. It's not a woo woo thing. You don't make a decision board and stare at it. And it just, ah, now I'm fit. It doesn't work that way. You have to take actions. So I'm gonna just go over some really basic actions and some of you might roll your Eyes and go. That sounds basic. But my question back to you is, but are you doing it? But are you doing it? Because I wasn't, I couldn't have said I was doing it fully until I really needed to. Like, number one, are you truly eating natural, unprocessed, real foods? And a lot of them. So when we look at food, food is healing. Food is designed to give us energy, food, our cells turn over constantly. If you are not eating healthy foods, if you're eating a lot of processed junk, if you're eating things that you just think, oh, it's just. Okay, it's just, it's not actually so just, just really thinking about. It's not about being restrictive. It's about saying, am I adding in so much of the good that I make less room for the not so amazing is what I say. So unprocessed, real foods. And I'm not even talking about if you're keto or paleo or carnivore, that I don't even care about right now, that you do what you want to do. But real natural foods. So real natural, what is that? That's meats, that's nuts, that's seeds, that's avocado, it's olive oil, it's vegetables, it's low glycemic fruits. All of that is unprocessed, real food. Food in its natural state, food that once grew is good for us. One ingredient, one ingredient. Simple.

I always say if it grew in the ground, fell from a tree, walked, swam or flu or had a mom.

Yeah. Yep. All of that. So that, so I look at all of that like that's, that's healing food. So I won't even get into like an argument about like carnivore or vegan or any. I'm just, are you eating unprocessed?

I try to stay above the fray with that too.

Yeah. Are you eating natural, unreal, natural, real food? Now I personally. You will. Nobody will convince me otherwise that phytonutrients are important for us. My second book, Aging in Reverse, was literally all I did was research and talk about vegetables in that book because there's so many antioxidants and good for us stuff. And I believe that that's what keeps us youthful too. It helps your skin, it's going to help your hair, it's going to help your body. It's like there's so many healing things without question. No matter what somebody tells me about, you know, they don't want vegetables. I think vegetables are critical, low glycemic fruits. I'm a. I'm a huge fan of that. So we fill up on those things. That's. That's number one. The second thing, are we really taking care of our gut? Because your gut is your second brain, and I do believe a lot of disease stems from our gut. A lot of blood sugar dysregulation, a lot of cancers. I think a lot of things stem from our gut. So how do we take care of our gut? There's a whole list of things we can go through, but just some basic things. Like, are you doing things like bone broth, which really coats your gut, and bone broth is good for you in so many ways. Are you taking probiotics? Are you regularly looking at this? So I don't know how you feel, Dr. Jen, but I'm a fan of paying attention to parasites and things that are emptying, because I think that's not looked at enough. And it's very easy to manage that type of thing and to know. Yeah, so. So that's another thing. Your gut, then I'm looking at hydration. Are you actually hydrating yourself with mineral water? Are you getting enough water in? Are you actually doing that and then taking a good hard look at the habits that you're doing that are not serving you? Like, I don't. I know everyone wants their wine, but it's really. There's nothing beneficial about adding alcohol to our system. It's toxic for our liver, it's toxic for our skin.

I will say that the American Cancer Society says that there is no safe amount of alcohol. No.

Yeah.

Safe amount of alcohol for women.

Yeah. So women don't want to hear that from me, but I'm like. But if you want to know what I'm actually doing and what I'm telling people, like, sure. Could you do my meal plans and have a glass of wine a day? Sure. I'm not crazy. I'm not going to yak, but I'm going to tell them best practices.

Don't say that to Jen Simmons. Yeah.

But I'm going to tell you best practices. Yeah, Best practices. No, it's not. Not a little bit is okay. It's just. It's. It's poison for us. So I'm looking at. I'm looking at that. Sugar is a huge toxin for us. Sugar helps everything grow that we don't want to grow. So, I mean, with cancer, we know sugar connection there with type 2 diabetes, the sugar connection, dementia, all metabolic disorders. I mean, we. Look, there's even a connection with your, your heart markers and sugar. So added sugar. And I don't mean the sugar from like a piece of fruit, like fructose, because it's different. You've got fiber, you've got minerals, you've got nutrients, but sugar is like, if you just are like, oh, I can't lose weight, but I happen to be eating, you know, Swedish fish every day. That's a big problem.

Yeah, but even if you're having toast every day or bread every day, and, you know, listen, I know that it's very cultural and that kind of thing, but the truth is that any pulverized grain, right, anything that's made into flour is immediately available as sugar in your.

System, and it's processed food anyway, as.

Bad or worse than eating table sugar.

So that brings me to the next two things I was going to bring up. And I was going slowly into this because I know women get upset, but I'm a truth teller. I'm going to tell you that truth. You don't have to take the information. But if you want to know what's going to work for fat loss, there's no benefit to us eating wheat and grains and dairy in most parts. Now, let me, let me go deeper there, because if you'll note, like, I just got back from Europe and I noticed, like, the dairy there was very different than the dairy here. So. So not all dairy is created equal. When you start pasteurizing, you start adding things to it, you're going to create issues. So most women, not all most women, if you're dealing with chronic pain, fatigue, inflammation, we gotta look at the grains and the dairy. Like, what are you doing there with that? Now, could we get into detail about, could you have ancient greens or could you have your own fermented sourdough? Possibly, maybe. But are you. And I would say, cut that out. One of the first things we do in my programs is we take out. It's sugar, gluten, and dairy is really what we really watch and look at now when people say, but I can't do that, I love this, I got it. But this all comes back to that decision. What do you want more? Because if your decision is, hey, I want to have the bread, I want to have all this, and I don't care that I have an extra 15 pounds or that this is going on, that's your decision. But if your decision is actually, I don't want the excess weight, I want to reduce my risk of all these things, then that's a different decision. So it's Coming back to that decision that you want. Now, when someone says that sounds boring. I don't feel boring with what I eat. I feel like I eat so many great, amazing foods, and I'm a celiac, actually, so I don't have gluten ever. There's not a cheat with it, and my body doesn't miss it or need it. So those are just some basic. Oh, and then one thing I didn't bring up with the nutrition again, basic. But I asked people, are you doing it? Is artificial sweeteners are not doing any favors to us. They're messing up our gut, they're messing up our energy. They're creating bloating, they're creating your body to think you're getting the calories when you're not. There's a lot of issues there with the artificial sweeteners as well.

They actually even cause insulin dysfunction because your brain tastes what's sweet on your tongue and thinks there's sugar coming. And so that signals your pancreas and to release insulin, which is wild.

Yeah. Because there was the snacks I was eating for a while. I think they're the smart sweets. I was like, oh, these are great. And when I was wearing a glucose monitor, I could see it would still spike your blood sugar, even though it's saying no sugar. So that's interesting. Yeah.

Because, you know, your body is trained to recognize certain things, so your taste buds are really smart. So when they recognize sweet, they say, oh, okay, we have sugar coming. Let's. Let's secrete insulin so that we make sure that we balance it.

Wow.

And then there wasn't actually sugar there because there's, like, nothing in those things of any nutritional value.

Then you get cravings and you're hungry.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. So that's why, you know, people drinking 8 and 9 Diet Cokes every day are gaining weight.

That's right. Not helping you. It's also messing up your gut even more. So we got problems there. So then there's a whole other side. So those are some basic nature. Now, I could get into portions and all that stuff, but that ends up being very individual. I just want to be real, like, how much protein I eat versus how much protein you should eat. A lot of that is individual. However, my first question is, are you doing those nutrition basics and then if we're going to go another layer. Protein is important. Muscle is important. It's not that your metabolism just slows down by itself. What happens is we lose muscle mass. And when you have less muscle to fat ratio, you're going to have, your metabolism is not going to be as efficient, so it's not going to work. So when you're like all of a sudden I'm doing the same things and I'm just gaining weight. Well, you're probably losing muscle, so that's what's going on. So when we look at that, you do need to do some type of weight bearing exercise. You've got to do some progressive overload training. And this was the big one for me because I'll share that. I was big with body weight. I taught body weight for years. I still love my body weight workouts. I shared that for years. But as I've aged, I've realized, you know what, I'm missing something here. Because you're not going to get the bone loss prevention and add the muscle the way that we need to with just doing body weight. So, so adding some resistance training is actually really critical, especially in your lower body. As we age, that's not only going to help your metabolism work better, but the more muscle you have, the more calories you actually burn at rest, the better your body's going to look. Muscle does not weigh more than fat, however, it takes up less space than fat. Let me explain that a little better. If you take five pounds of muscle, five pounds of fat, you put five pounds of each on the scale, they both weigh five pounds. Muscle and fat both weigh five pounds, five pounds of it. But muscle will take up a lot less space. It's a lot more dense than fat, which takes up a lot more space. So it's not so much the weight number. But let's change your body composition. By adding more muscle, you naturally release some more fat and you look smaller, you look tighter.

Yeah. And you know, part of the reason why you can get away with different kind of strength training with less heavy weights when you're younger than when you're older is our protein utilization changes significantly as we age. And that has to do with our digestive capabilities. It has to do with decreased amount of pancreatic enzymes, definitely. But also a decrease in acid production in the stomach. And so we have to couple these things together. So you have to couple it. You definitely need to lift heavier weights, but you need to have the digestive piece along with that.

I love that because I'm a huge fan of enzymes, digestive enzymes and HCl as we age. Yeah, huge fan. Do you take those too? Are you okay? I do.

And so I don't always supplement with acid. Sometimes I drink dilute apple cider Vinegar before my meals. But I, I'm doing it and I'm constantly assessing my ability by doing a drink of bicarbonate and water and seeing how long it takes you to burp, because that is an indication of how much acid you have in your stomach. Because if you have enough acid in your stomach, it's going to bubble up when it hits your stomach and so, and come back up.

So anyone that wants to do that, you just take a baking soda and some water and you just, you drink it on empty stomach and you wait five minutes. And if you burp, you've got enough. If you don't, then you don't have enough. And then HCl, hydrochloric acid is what will help you break down. Also, it's what helps prevent some parasitic infections and stuff that goes on in your body.

More than just parasitic infections, though. I mean, we're talking about, you know, you can't possibly sterilize your food and you almost don't want to. So there's going to be bacteria, there's going to be viruses, which is not a big deal if you have enough stomach acid, because when you eat that food and it hits your stomach, the stomach acid will kill them. But if you don't have enough, that sets you up with, for these chronic infections, parasites, certainly, but viruses, bacteria, it sets you up for dysbiosis, and down the line it sets you up for cancer. And we know that cancer incidence is increased in people who are on acid blockers. So I'm just going to make a little public service announcement right here. We have vilified acid for the purposes of selling acid blockers. I write about this in my book. There are people out there on acid blockade. For years and years, these were drugs that were approved for use over two weeks. Two weeks.

Crazy.

Average person is on them for two years. These increase your risk of chronic disease, including cancer. So if you're on acid blockade, don't just stop cold turkey because you'll have problems.

But my own.

Weaning yourself off.

My own mom, I just walked through this with her. My mom's in her 70s and my mom is super healthy as far as, like, how she eats and how she moves her body, like she's doing great. But when I saw her, she had this, like, distended stomach. I'm like, mom, what's going on there? And I knew it wasn't visceral fat and taking her down this path. She actually had sibo. She had a lot of stuff going on with her gut, but she's been on acid blockers for years. So when you're doing that, you are creating an issue. So same thing, like, told her she's not just automatically stopping cold turkey, but really looking at that. And I find that with a lot of women, and it's hard because we've been led to believe some of these things are safe and normal and we should just do them. And my advice to you, if that's what you. You're thinking, well, heck, my doctor told me to do this, or I didn't know or it was over the counter or whatever it is, is that's your opportunity then also to make a new decision and just say, because we can't change what we've done in the past. I can't change the fact that from age 15 to 35, I was on birth control pills like I wish I never was, but I can't change that. So it's just, it is what it is. I can't change my genetics, but I say, what are my decisions? What am I focused on? And what do I want to create with my life? And we have to take that step forward and do that.

Just so you know, I think within five years of stopping them, if you haven't had a breast cancer diagnosis, your risk does drop.

Okay, that's good to know. So I worry about that for bone loss and all types of things, though, being on synthetic pills for so long.

Yeah, I, I wouldn't worry about that so much because it probably does confer some protection. And certainly during those times when you are building your bone to, to have estrogen in your system, I mean, you would have had it anyway because you would have been during a time in your life where your ovaries were working. But in any event, hopefully I made you feel a little better about it. Yeah, that's good.

I honestly don't spend time worrying about it. But that's my point, is that we can go down this road of, oh, I took these things or I did these things, but I don't, I don't focus on what I did in the past. I just focus on what I want to create in the future. That's the, that's the theme. I take women through for fat loss, too. Same thing when you come into doing a fat loss journey and you're like, when someone starts my program, I say, I understand all these things you tried in the past, but we're not going down that road. We're going to look at what we're going to do from here on. Creating one thing I Did not mention. On top of the mindset, decide, vision, action is what I say, the mindset piece. And being clear on those actions with your nutrition and your workouts. What also is super, super critical is the two things I want to bring up. One is your toxic load. And to start to look at that, where somebody might say, well, gosh, everything's toxic. Everything's toxic. Got it. But it's the toxic load. It's the amount of stuff that we're compounding over time and what that does to our body. Like. And we choose. You choose what you're willing to do or not do. For example, I'm not going to stop coloring my hair. I'd be fully gray. And I don't choose to be fully gray. So I color my hair. Is it toxic? I'm sure it is. I'm not so worried about that. But I did stop a lot of other things. I took my nails off. I don't have gel or acrylic nails on. I don't stop spray tanning. I stopped. I took my implants out. I had. I had an explant. So it's your toxic load. And then looking at even products that I use and what's like, what's in my skincare? What's in that? It's that toxic load that compounds over time. You might think that's nothing. I'll tell you, I did a total toxin report. And I've seen this on many people. And the things that showed up on that, it's crazy. And I'm like, wait a minute. That's in my body. Like Hema. Seeing Hema on my. That came from gel nails. So looking at toxic load, you might think that's not interfering with your fat loss. It absolutely is.

Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And what I say to people is, you know, I did the same thing as you. I stopped doing my nails. I made 100,000 changes in my environment.

Right.

What I put in on and around me.

Yes.

But I'm also not ready to be gray.

That's right. And I still use nail polish.

I just use my hair. I just. I'm not. I'm not there yet. I'm not ready. And I would have a silver head of hair if I didn't color it. So I pick my poison.

That's exactly what I say. I pick my poison.

And people do ask me about Botox and fillers and, you know, whatever they're the latest, greatest thing is for, you know, youth serum or whatever. And I say, you can pick a Thing, two things. You can't pick all the things, right?

That's so true.

Pick all the things and then making.

Sure you have the pathways to help clear stuff. So, like, for instance, I use my infrared sauna, or I'll use, like, I do things to help my dry brushing just to help your body eliminate. Because it's not. We can't avoid all the toxic. Look, we can't avoid all the toxins. But how is your body eliminating it? How is it getting rid of it? And then the second part of that is the biggest part. And I really want women to hear, this is about. About being your own health detective. We cannot expect your doctor just to know everything for you. We have to be our own detective. If something doesn't sound right, if it doesn't feel right, you've got to go deeper and ask the questions and know what that means. There's so much information out there, and we can look at it as, that's information overload. Or we can look at it as, wow, there's a lot of information. I can find my answers, and I choose to look at it that second way and become a detective. Which means I go deep learning about gut health. I go deep learning about blood sugar regulation. I go deep learning about thyroid. Like, learn these things and take from them what you need to know and what you were maybe missing. Be a health detective and ask questions.

That is a very, very daunting prospect for people. Now, my friend Sachin Patel says that the doctor, that the patient is the doctor of the future. And I do believe that. I think, think it's very, very important to tune in to your intuition because no one is ever going to know you better than you know yourself, ever, ever, ever. But that. It's very daunting. I mean, I saw a patient today that had all of this functional testing done, and she kind of dumped it all on my lap and said, I don't know what any of this means.

Oh, my gosh.

And I said, of course you don't know what any of this means. You're not supposed to know what any of this means. So I don't want people to feel intimidated, like they have to start interpreting these really complex labs. But tell me, how did you become your own health detective and where are your trusted sources?

Great question. So I am that person that obsessively researches, and I understand that can feel overwhelming and daunting. And I always say I have, like, three phases. It's like overwhelm, obsessive focus. And then maybe I'm Bored with it. So it's kind of like. So maybe that's not a normal expectation of a lot of people. That might be an ADHD trait, I don't know. But that is how my brain is wired. But I will say what is actually more important, you listening than your own health? I'm just, it's a real question what's actually more important? Because you might say your husband, your kids. You got it. And can you actually show up powerfully to be supportive and a great person in their life if you're not taking care of your health and no, you cannot. You know, I think about my dad who thought it would be selfish to take care of himself and he died at age 49 of a heart attack. So I don't align with the I don't have time or it feels overwhelming. I got that you feel that way, but you get to get past that. It also feels uncomfortable starting a new job or starting a business or having a baby for like there's a lot of nothing worth chasing in our life is going to just be easy to take on. There is nothing more important than your health and vitality, especially in midlife. So I'm going to say you got to jump in anyway. I'm not saying it's be an expert on reading labs, but can you be an expert on finding the best doctor for you? I'm not saying you have to be an expert on understanding the hormone replacement that you're going to take, but you should be reading about hormones and understand like reading books like estrogen matters or just like understanding being listening to your podcast, being curious. One reason my podcast is a great example midlife conversations. I bring on those experts. I had you on talking about breast cancer, I bring on experts. There's podcasts out there, there's audibles, there's people, there's social media, there's places to look. It doesn't mean everything you hear is the fact actual thing for you. But you've got to be curious and be your own health detective. I will tell you if I look at my friend circle, if I look at who I aspire to be like anyone that's living well in midlife. So I say thriving in midlife. If I rewind what they are doing, they are being a health detective. They are curious. They don't just go in for their 5 minute checkup and say, oh yep, I need metformin, I need cholesterol medicine, I need this and I'm done. Or I need antidepressants and synthetic birth control for My menopause symptoms, they don't take that as an answer. They go deeper, they understand, and they make choices from that. So I understand I might sound like a lecturer right now, but you can't tell me that you want to thrive in midlife and be healthier and then say at the same time, I don't want all the information.

Yeah. And the other thing is, we can't farm out our health, especially not to conventional medical practitioners, because first of all, no one is going to care about you as much as you care about yourself. And those practitioners, they go home at the end of the day and they worry about themselves and their family. So you have to be your own advocate for sure. And you cannot farm out your health to someone who doesn't have any right to protect it.

That's right.

And doesn't have any ability to protect it. And the way that our conventional medical system works is that the only way to get in is to fail.

That's right.

We don't want people to fail.

No.

Like I say all the time, I am more than happy to retire. Like, let's get rid of breast cancer for sure. I'm more than happy to retire. I am. I'll find what to do. I am not worried that I'm going to be bored or sit around eating bon bons. Like, that's not going to happen to me. So I am a okay with us solving this breast cancer issue, which is amazing.

That would be amazing. And I feel that same about fat loss and women's health, too. Like, I don't. You know, so many times women come through my program and they're like, oh, my gosh, I finally, something worked for me. I got amazing results. And what I. What they finally see is it actually isn't my program. It's the change of mindset that they took on that gave them the ability to see things differently. So I'm teaching nutrition that they probably would have known if they had paid attention to that before, but they had to look at it through a different lens. So I take on things like that. One of the things I do in my, my Thrive programs and in my podcast is I make sure I'm bringing the detective work to you. And I know you do that on your podcast, too. You bring that in, so it makes it easier for people. So if someone's feeling overwhelmed, you don't have to go follow 100 people. Find some people that you resonate with. Go deep on their content. Listen to that. Listen to the people, too, that are getting thrown under the Bus. And this is going to sound weird, but I really stand behind this. If somebody's saying, speaking up about something and posing a question and people are attacking, like, why are you asking that question? That's probably who you should actually be listening to. Because we should be poking holes, we should be asking questions. We shouldn't just be going through the norms.

Yeah.

What I, what I realized recently is this is going to sound maybe a little out there, but I think the majority of Western medicine, it's not meant to be bad. It was. It's just we, we were given, they were taught specific things that are based on averages. And like, okay, if someone's blood sugar is this, it means that if someone's cholesterol is this, it should mean that that's a way of like average thinking. So they're doing what they were had, were taught and were learned. It doesn't mean every single person fits into that box. Like, just because you have.

And unfortunately, we've only made that range bigger because as we've gotten less and less healthy, we, we. The mean has changed. Yes, but it's changing in the wrong direction.

No.

Right. Like, so average now is a whole lot worse than it was 30 years ago.

The amount of people on cholesterol medication, like, just stuns me when we don't even know. Like, maybe that is for some people, but is it necessarily for everybody? I'd want to know what's creating that cholesterol.

Like, what you have to, you have to give 83 people cholesterol medication for one person to benefit. So let's just talk about where that whole thing is being driven from.

Right? Yeah.

It does not decrease your risk of cardiovascular. No.

It's like 2%, isn't it? It's like something very small.

I don't even think it's that. I don't even think it's that.

Yeah.

And. Well, it's 1 point something percent because 1 in 73 people benefit and then. Or 83 people and then you have a 63% increase in diabetes if you go. That's right.

That's right. And you've got pain and inflammation, you're going to feel joint pain and now you're not going to do your workouts. And now your body's actually making that cholesterol to protect you from other things. And we're so there's just a lot of. And again, I'm not saying nobody should be on that. Fine. Everyone has their own unique situation. But my question is always, but why? But where is it coming from what's leading to this. If I. If I had listened to that first doctor about the blood sugar, I would have just been on metformin going, okay, I'm supposed to be type 2 diabetic. That's not the case. I got to the root and I don't have the issue anymore. So I would say that's where being a detective is important. Now, if you ultimately choose a prescription or medication, you want to do it from an informed place. So that means you're not just asking that one doctor appointment and then the next layer of that. And I know someone's thinking this, I just want to give you some hope. Here is. They say, but my insurance. But my insurance. And I, you know, I worked in medical device sales for years. That's what I did before I ever was doing this. And insurance does not care about people. It does not care about.

It's a business.

It does not care about you. It should not be what's dictating treatment. And it's very sad that insurance is what's dictating treatment. So to me, it's like you pay now or you pay later with a problem. So I. Most things that I want to get tested and go to, that's not a through insurance thing. And that might sound like a privilege or a luxury. And I can understand that thought process, but it's going to save me a lot of money in the long run because I'm doing that with great. I want to go to the doctor and know that they're going to spend 90 minutes with me talking to me, not five minutes, because that's all insurance allowed. So I would rather spend that money and time now to really understand and go deep so I don't have the problem later.

Yeah, 100%. And like you said, I mean, it is pay now or pay later. And I can guarantee you that it's a whole lot more expensive later. We have completely lost sight of what insurance should be like. I think insurance should be for catastrophic illness.

Yes.

For if you fall and break your hip or my bicep or. Yeah. Or if, God forbid, like you have an appendicitis or something like that and you need a surgery.

Absolutely.

This is what insurance should be for. But insurance shouldn't be because you go to the eye doctor every year or you're going to the pediatrician or that's not what insurance should be. And if we used insurance for situations that required insurance, it would be a totally different system and a totally different story. And it would be affordable.

Totally.

Because we're not asking for it to pay for everyday medical care. And P.S. it probably shouldn't. And I think people would be far more motivated and to protect their health if they actually had to pay to go to the doctor.

It's true.

It's part and parcel to why we are so overwhelmed with chronic illness is because no one feels a responsibility to be healthy.

It's true. I mean, case in point, when I know you, you had you on my show about this with the whole mammogram story like that, you're basically, okay, insurance pays for mammogram. And then what's that creating and what's that putting in us? And then what is that? So it's, there's just a lot there. And, you know, maybe people will think I'm a conspiracy theorist. I don't care. Whatever. That's just. You asked me the question, what do, what do I do? What do I teach women? How do I help people thrive in midlife? And this is, these are the real answers. It's being a detective. It's not just going into the conventional system. It's not just taking, you know, having artificial sweeteners and drinking crystal light all day. That's not what it is. It's really, it's eating unprocessed natural food. It's moving my body. It's creating resistance training. It's being a health detective. Like really being a health detective. And then all of that has to be layered on top of that mindset piece of being really clearing your decisions for what you want and being really clear about the vision of what you want to create. And then when you clean up all that toxic stuff out of your life, that changes a lot too. And when I say toxic stuff, it's not even just your food or your products. It's people. It's what you're listening to, it's what you're around. If you are surrounding yourself with that kind of negativity and energy, it's going to keep you in a, in a place. So it's just something that is my best advice for people is you have to almost create your own echo chamber of possibility and how things are going to work out in your favor and that this is what you're going for and you have to only let that belief in. Yeah.

So for all of you that are like, she wants me to be my own detective. I hope that you take away from this empowerment.

Right?

Like, this is your way of advocating for yourself, of getting to know yourself. And when you know yourself well, you know when things aren't how they should be. And if you are at that place and the people who you're going to are not responding to you, they're not believing you, you need to keep looking. You need to get a better guide. You need to get a better coach. You need to get someone who can help you to address your health. Because the truth is, you should feel really good. We should all feel good. You shouldn't be in pain, you shouldn't be tired, you shouldn't be overweight, you shouldn't be any of these things. We are meant to function optimally.

You know, I was just saying this is like, there's memes going around about, I just got back from Europe and I'm talking about that. But I don't know if you've spent a lot of time in Europe or any. But when. When you go to Europe, it's so different. What you see, people are active, they're moving, they're not overweight. I don't see a lot of obesity, at least not where I've been in Europe.

No, the only obesity. The only obesity you see there are the Americans, visiting Americans.

Yeah. You see, people eat the food, smaller portions, fresh food, real food. You don't feel stomach problems from their dairy because they don't add all the stuff to it. There's over 2,000. I heard I may be off numbers. Chemicals that are allowed in our food in the US that are not allowed in European food, which is crazy to me.

Yeah. I think that's a minimum.

Yeah.

So even be more so.

But I watch that. And what's really wild is you watch people in Europe, they're smoking and they're like. And it's still not affecting all these other things. So you take something that toxic, and still their lifestyle of moving and eating well is over, surpassing the toxicity of the smoking, which is so crazy to me. But I saw that. And I watch. Like, I. I track my steps. I wear an OURA ring, and I track my steps. And I just saw how naturally you get in 20,000 steps a day there. It's like a. You're moving here, we're sitting more, we're sedentary, and we're. We're creating this whole big thing around body positivity, which to me can be very dangerous. Like, I'm all for you loving yourself, but let's get real. Obesity kills. I mean, obesity raises your risk of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, all of it. So, no, there's a difference between loving your body and not having the tiny waist. Got It. And saying it's okay to be 100 pounds overweight. Not enrolled in that. Yeah.

And this is the toxic positivity that people talk about. And we're not saying don't love yourself, but. But we have to do better as a people, as a society, as a community.

Love yourself enough to take care of yourself and be there for your forever. I use my dad as an example a lot because my dad, he had every intention of putting us first and being there for everybody else. And he died at age 49 and literally never met his grandkids. Never saw me grow up, never left my mom a young widow. My sister was only 12 when he died. So I think about that, and to me, that's actually more selfish. So take care of yourself. We don't know. We cannot predict our futures. We have no idea how long we have. We don't know any of that. There's so much we can't control, but there's so much we actually can control. Why would you not want to bet on yourself and try to do those things?

Yeah, exactly. I think that's a great place to end. This has been an amazing discussion. I love spending time with you. I love your whole philosophy. I love the mindset that you've created for yourself and shared with the world. I think you have an enormous impact, and I can certainly understand why.

Thanks. Thank you, Dr. Jen.

So tell us about your books. Tell us where people can find you. Tell us what you're up to right now.

Yeah, so I do have two books. If any of this resonated and you kind of want to know where to start. 7 day jumpstart. Unprocess yous Diet can be in stores anywhere. This is the first book I wrote, so it's all about unprocessing your diet. And it's everything we just shared today, but on a basic level, Step by Step and then Aging in Reverse is my newer book. I'm working on a third, but it's not ready yet. So we've got this and then my podcast, Midlife Conversations. I. I help you be a health detective. We go deep. I've had great guests like Dr. Jen Simmons right here on where I go deep on these topics for you. So you don't necessarily have to dig for the research. I bring on all the stuff. I bring on the best experts with all the topics, and we go there. And then I'm most active right now on Instagram, which is Natalie Jill Fit.

Amazing. So thank you so much for your time today, for sharing your wisdom for what you do for your tireless energy on making. Making this world a better place. I know. I'm so grateful. The listeners are grateful. If you liked what you heard today, please share it with a friend who needs to hear it. Because we all need to be healthier and we can do this better as a community. It's Dr. Jen. I'll see you back here next week, Same time, same place. Bye for now.