80 Highest Potential Sleep and Emotional Resilience

Hello and welcome to Top Down Brain Rx Chill Pill Podcast, where you can boost your resilience just by listening. Resilience is about bouncing back from setbacks by adapting and learning so you can thrive through life's challenges. Each episode includes research-backed tools and leaves you with an action or meditation prescription that you can apply immediately to your and your family's life. I'm Dr. Juna Bobby MD, a board-certified physician and a mom of two amazing kids. My purpose is to make the neuroscience of wellness accessible to you and your kids' everyday life. Because when I became a mom, I wanted to do everything possible to empower my children with healthy mental and physical habits. This wasn't something that I had growing up, so I had to learn how to create it. I'm definitely not aiming for perfection, but I can honestly say that the mind-body skills I learned transformed my family's life. After years of training, I fully transitioned into teaching mind-body medicine leaving one of the most prestigious private practices in New York City so I could dedicate my time to creating and teaching the science of resilience. My almost decade-long experience teaching high-performing students of all ages at Juilliard and many other schools have now led me to the creation of my newest course, Plan to Soar for K-12 Stress Management and Resiliency Training, and Soar Under Pressure, or Soar Up, for youth and adults. These courses are available for partnering schools, organizations, groups, and for individuals online. Go to mindbodyspace.com and sign up, or email info@mindbodyspace.com. A portion of all proceeds go to those students in need. Today is my monthly chat with my brilliant and amazing friend, Fiona Murden. She's a chartered organizational psychologist in London. Fi is the host of her own podcast, Dot to Dot, and is the award-winning author of Defining You and Mirror Thinking.

Hi, Fi.

It's lovely to see you.

I'm so excited to have you here as usual. And last, last episode, we talked a little bit about sleep. We started to touch upon sleep. And how it could affect performance, right?

Yeah.

And today we're going to touch upon, um, we're going to talk about emotional regulation today, and maybe we can start talking a little bit about sleep and emotions.

Yeah, emotions are pretty complex things, aren't they?

Very, very. And sleep, I mean, they have robust evidence that sleep can affect emotional regulation, and also it can affect, um, psychiatric disorders, you know, in particular anxiety disorders, which is so prevalent these days, right? So especially when we're talking about adolescents, I know you're mentoring adolescents now in high school, right? So yes, go on.

No, I was going to say I'm not actually personally mentoring them myself. I'm sort of facilitating other people mentoring them and providing them with mental health support and things like that.

Awesome. Congratulations. That's so exciting.

Thank you.

So when we talk about adolescence, I mean, I don't know about you. I mean, I guess you don't have as much direct contact with adolescents, but my students, they will tell me that they get 4 to 5 hours of sleep, especially junior year of high school.

Really?

Yeah. Super high achievers. They're doing extracurriculars at a very high level, and then they're taking a bunch of AP classes and That's—

how old are they in junior year?

15, 16. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think it comes in waves because they will try to catch up on the weekends and they'll sleep, you know, but we all know that catch-up sleep is not exactly ideal. So I don't know if they're consistently getting 4 to 5 hours every day for the whole year. I don't think so. I think that you're just falling asleep at that point during the day.

Wow.

So I want to unpack that a little bit. So again, research states, you know, research supports that sleep can, it's like a bidirectional effect with psychiatric disorders, right? So a lot of psychiatric disorders have their first, have their start during adolescent years.

Yep.

You know, what comes first, right? Like the lack of sleep and then like, let's say a manic episode, 'cause that's one of the disorders that we know is really very closely tied to sleep and psychosis as well. Yeah, yes, you could almost induce psychosis, uh, if you keep people from sleeping.

Well, there's evidence that, um, well, sleep deprivation, uh, will lead to death ultimately. It's, uh, it has a dramatic impact on the brain. And what's interesting, working with chief execs who are a bit more seasoned, so further into their career, um, they may be in their 20s, were very much of that driven mindset where I will sleep under the desk and I will just get up in the morning at work and carry on. Um, well, there's people like Arianna Huffington, who, um, Jeff Bezos, who themselves say that they suffered, uh, quite significantly from a lack of sleep, but they had to go through the process of having it hit them before they actually did anything about it. I think it's important, if possible. It's a bit like cleaning your teeth. It's, you can say, when you're, when you're an adolescent, you think, or a teenager, you think, oh, you know what, I can't be bothered to clean my teeth. But then when you get to your later years, you realize that if you haven't cleaned your teeth when you're younger, you've got, you know, they start falling out and rotting and all that sort of stuff. It's, it's the same thing with sleep, but sleep can have a more immediate impact and has quite dramatic impact on performance. Um, And one thing I find really interesting, there's a guy in the UK called Littlehale, his surname, and he worked with the Tour de France team. So have you heard of the Tour de France cycling?

Of course, yes.

Yeah.

What's his name again? Can you spell it?

Littlehale. So little, like small, L-I-T-T-L-E, Hale, H-A-L-E. That's his surname. And they, they did so much work with these guys, um, on the Tour de France to just absolutely fine-tune their performance. And this guy was employed specifically around sleep, and he would do things like, uh, help them to regulate the time— uh, sorry, the temperature of their room, um, what foods they're eating up to a certain time of day. Um, right down to the actual bedding. So these guys would take bedding with them. So they're stopping at different places every night on the tour and they have their custom-made bedding that they would use.

Nice.

But these things—

that sounds like me when I used to take call at Bellevue. I used to bring my satin sheets.

Oh, nice.

Not that I ever got any sleep.

Wow.

Anyway, go on.

My mother-in-law brings her pillow with her everywhere she goes. But, but it's the, the point being is when we get down to these performance sports where you're fine-tuning to tenths of a second how fast you can go and what you can do and what your body can do and what your mind can do sleep is a massively important deciding factor in that.

Yeah. Any, any edge you can get, right?

Absolutely.

Because they're all at such an elite level.

Absolutely. And I think that's important for kids to understand is really what they're trying to do is fine-tune their performance to get to the colleges they want to and to achieve what they want to, but to really, really get the optimum, then they need to try and sleep a bit more.

Yeah. But also we talk about emotions, right? Because emotional regulation, how you handle your emotions and how you learn to handle them during your teenage years and your growing years, which you touch upon in your book, Defining You, is, is really important for how they're going to actually handle things in the future, right? Because your brain is processing these emotions and they're learning how to manage their emotions at this time.

Times.

So how you do that and how resilient you are, um, and that's where sleep comes in, because when you're getting sufficient sleep, you know, the research has shown that you can actually, um, choose situations better where you're not going to be as triggered. And then you can also choose your emotions better on how to react to things, right? Because we're working more from the top-down brain. You kind of lose that with a lack of sleep, just like a toddler who doesn't get a nap is going to be cranky. Um, you know, everybody's like that. Yeah, into adulthood.

Absolutely. And until the age of 28, you know this, Juna Bobby MD, but the, the connection between the frontal lobe of the brain and the emotional center of the brain is still developing. It's going through emerging adulthood. And if you're not laying down those neural networks at that time of life, it's going to make it more difficult doesn't mean it's impossible because we know we have brain plasticity, but it's going to make it more difficult later on in life. And I can't remember who it is, there's someone that says that you can't delete neural pathways, you can only build other neural pathways. And actually, there's a— that's an interesting point relating to that and emotions, because if you're not learning to regulate your emotions, you're laying down the more the less helpful neural pathways, because the neural pathways are getting more embedded on, I will throw a tantrum. And that's— I'm sure everyone listening thinks, I don't throw tantrums. But you know, it's like you'll lose your temper, you'll get more anxious, or you'll get more upset. And then that's embedding, uh, an emotional pathway that's not as helpful as if you have more sleep, where you would handle it differently.

Mm-hmm. I think you're referring to habits, like habitual thought patterns or habitual patterns of behavior. I mean, they do go through pruning, so the dendrites will prune back if you don't use something. Just like if you start to juggle, you learn how to juggle, and then you stop juggling for a while, your dendrites are going to shrink back. So they call that pruning, just like what you go outside and prune your garden. But I think what you're talking— referring to is like a habitual loop of basically a trigger and a habit, right? So the emotions can become like a habit like that, and those are really hard to, to get rid of, and maybe they don't ever go away. I'm not sure. But you can always train your top-down brain by, you know, slowing things down and, and getting more sleep and, you know, using your cognitive perspective shifting, right? Which is what we're going to talk about now. So In your book, you talk about accepting emotions. So let's say you don't get enough sleep and you're feeling a little emotionally labile. I know you had Russ Harris on your podcast recently.

Yeah, he's wonderful.

That's so cool. And I know you're really into his work on acceptance commitment therapy. So let's say like somebody didn't get sleep. Let's just presume that you're an adolescent, you're cramming for your exams, you're not getting enough sleep. And you know, you're like triggered a lot emotionally. How would you use this, uh, acceptance skill to help yourself? So maybe handle things better.

Yeah. And acceptance is, it's not something that comes naturally to us, partly because of the way we're brought up to handle problem solving, which is there's a problem, we solve it. So when we have a problem in our head, we think as a problem, I'll solve it. But of course our head doesn't work like that. And so it goes, it's almost counterintuitive. So we kind of battle with it.

And, and so you're saying that somebody has an emotion that's not something that's pleasant and then they want to solve it, right? So it's like, oh, I'm having this emotion, I don't like this anger or frustration, so I want to solve this.

I want to solve it, I want to fix it, I want to find out why, I want to get rid of it, I want to get rid of it. But actually what we know that does is embed that emotion even more. And so counterintuitively, it's being able to— I mean, there are different terms for it. I sometimes call it emotion surfing. So you imagine you're surfing out that emotion on the wave and you're just letting it go, or floating, so you float on it. But it's basically trying to— and you have to keep reminding yourself of doing this because it doesn't just you don't just say it once and then it happens, is trying to say, I'm just going to leave that. So it's a bit like having an annoying brother or sister who's, who's, you know, he's really, really trying to wind you up. I don't know if that's an American expression as well, but annoying, really annoying, really irritating.

Get under your skin.

Yeah. And you just think, oh, shut up. And if you, you, but you know, you know, if you get angry with them, they're gonna just get more angry back, or they're gonna just laugh at you more back, or they're just gonna wind you up a bit more back. But if you can back off, then they're gonna get a bit bored after a while and leave you alone. And emotions are very like that, negative emotions. We, we experience it, but then it's saying it's there. It's not pushing it down, it's not blocking it, it's not pushing it away. It's not even engaging with it. It's just saying that feeling is there and I'm just going to leave it there while I try and get on with something else.

Mm-hmm. Um, and, um, engaging with it is just reinforcing it, you're saying, right? It just makes it grow more. So what if you're stuck in it though, right? So, you know, let's use— a lot of people use quicksand as an example. So you're stuck in quicksand and you start to struggle in the quicksand and you start to get even deeper into the quicksand. But what if you're in it and you don't know and you're just struggling? Well, I mean, get yourself out.

Well, it has to be a point at which you recognize it to be able to do something, I think. But, but then there are 3 things. Um, you can name the emotion, which sounds really simplistic, but you'll have seen the studies, Juna, that show that it actually moves the emotion from the limbic centers of the brain to the top frontal lobes of the brain, which allows us to—

Right, you're using your language center of your brain. Yeah.

So it allows, allows you to rationally process it.

You're gonna say one step back. So it's awareness first.

Awareness.

First of all, somebody has to tell you, oh, you know, if you're trying to deal with your negative thoughts, you are in quicksand. So you have to learn that concept first, right? When you are trying to focus on getting rid of something or you're struggling against something, it's just gonna ensnare you more. So that's— and then secondly, you need to be aware that you're in the quicksand.

And sometimes even with the— even with, um, the training senior leaders that I work with, they, they recognize that once they are consumed by emotions of one sort or another, then it's really hard to recognize it. So it's sometimes about getting someone else to recognize it for you. But the problem, the problem is when you're a teenager, you don't necessarily want your mom or your dad to tell you. Um, so it might be that you, you have a friend who says, ah, do you know what, I think you're getting into that, that quicksand again, or you're getting into that mental trap again.

Yeah, the trigger or the bottom-up brain.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's a triggered brain.

And then, um, even if you're stuck, if you're in that quicksand The two most effective things to do are to talk about it, just talk about it out loud to someone. And the other thing is if you don't want to talk about it or you don't have someone to talk about it to, write about it.

Mm-hmm. So you're engaging all different parts of your brain. You're processing, you're using your motor and sensory, and you're talking, which is— talking is so comp— complex and involves so many areas of your brain.

And it allows you to process this and reflect and, and, um, get yourself in a better place with it. But if you find that you think you've got someone who, if you're going to start talking to them about it, they're going to have a bigger problem, or, you know, then write it down. Mm-hmm.

Or talk to your coach or therapist or teacher or trusted, uh, guidance counselor.

Yeah, I forget that in the States you have these wonderful things. You see, in the UK, we don't have guidance counselors. No, it's becoming a bit more common, but it's not, not necessary.

Okay, so surfing your emotions, so allowing them to be there, you see it, but you just kind of like surf it. You could take some deep breaths, as simple as that sounds. You can also come to your senses. Meaning like you can, um, recognize what's around you, listen to the sounds that are right around you. You can look at what's right in front of you. You can use mind— these are mindfulness skills, right? And literally they're using your 6 senses to come back into the present moment instead of getting wrapped up, uh, up in these emotions that might be overwhelming you. Mm-hmm. But again, it's that training of awareness. So you can train when you're not stuck in a wave of emotions to take those deep breaths and maybe do some mindfulness practices while you're not in those critical moments so that you can be ready when those things happen and you might be more self-aware of being triggered.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's something I also always say to, you know, I've been saying to frontline workers, for example, you know, ICU doctors during the pandemic is when we've been between waves, I've said, right, we need to make a plan now. Because once you're in the middle of dealing with however many deaths again, your brain is not going to be able to think straight. You might look at the plan now and think, well, yeah, that's obvious. But actually when it happens, it's not quite so obvious. That's right. Because your brain gets flooded with all these emotions.

And then what about after? So you get triggered, you don't catch yourself, you end up embarrassing yourself, or you're not, you know, being at your best. Um, and then what?

There's— I mean, there's something called cognitive reframing, which is actually a technique from cognitive behavioral therapy. And in that sense, you, you take apart and you, you make sense of basically what, what's happened. So for example, you might say 'I failed my exams because I'm not very clever.' What that is, it's what we'd say is an out of control. So it's not within your control if you're not clever, and it's got negative connotation. What you do is you break that down to, 'I failed my exams because I didn't work hard enough, or maybe because I didn't get enough sleep.' I was just going to say that. Yeah. So the outcome becomes within your control. So it was, it's hard, but it was a good life lesson. And actually, I'm in control of it because if I'd slept more or if I'd worked harder or if I'd been to all my classes or whatever it might be, the outcome would have been different.

And— So going from a pervasive fixed mindset where you're saying you're labeling yourself something, you're not smart or whatever. And then going towards a growth mindset where you can have control over your outcome by changing your behavior basically, or, and especially learning from what just happened and then changing going forward, which makes it a growing experience.

Yeah. And that's not to say it's easy. It's, it's, it's not an easy thing to do.

You know, there are steps you can take. So if you practice those steps over and over again, and again, this goes into what they call deliberate practice. Also. So when you go and, um, do something, you get immediate feedback. So it might be a grade that gives you that immediate feedback. It might be a parent or a teacher or your friend. And then you take that feedback, and of course you have to make sure that you take a deep breath so you don't get offended and take it personally. But then take that feedback and immediately change something about what you're doing and do it differently this time for a different outcome.

What's great is if adults, teenagers, if you can do this now, even though sometimes it might feel like you only get it right 1 time out of 20, that's good. That's good because it gets easier. Um, but the more you can practice it now, because it is practice, the easier things will become as you grow older.

And I love how you said 1 out of 20. Because really that's great success. As long as there's that one.

But I think that's what can feel really hard as well, because, you know, the kids you talk to are really, really, um, capable that they get very good grades. They're talented. And so in their—

and things have come easy for them, a lot of them in many ways, because they're so intelligent and smart and hardworking. So, when they come up against adversity, usually it's like junior year when they first feel like, oh my God, there's so much work to do.

Yeah.

You know?

And, and because they're so smart and because they're so capable that they will always be getting 10 outta 10 on whatever they're doing. But our head doesn't work like that because our head is not black and white.

Eventually they don't get 10 outta 10.

And that's, but, but yeah, we don't. And then also trying things out in our head doesn't work straight away. So whereas—

shoot for just 1 out of 20.

Yeah. And that might sound just like horrendous. No way.

That's what, like, even being a mom, right? Shoot for that 1 out of 20 times when you—

1 out of 100.

Yeah. So going back to sleep. So if you can't get the 8 to 10 hours of sleep that's recommended for adolescent brains, where during sleep your glymphatics are at work and it's cleaning out the byproducts of all of your metabolism in your brain. And that, that's when it's at its best. And there's also emotional processing that goes on with dreaming and all of that. So if you can't get that ideal 8 to 10 hours, at least take some naps. Even meditation, sometimes you get better rest than sleeping, they've shown, metabolically speaking. So you can do a 15 to 20-minute meditation. You might feel refreshed. Or you can take a nap at 30-minute, 60-minute, or 90-minute cycles so you don't feel groggy after. And even Thomas Edison, who only slept like 4 hours a night, turns out he napped all day.

Oh, really?

He would take lots of little naps throughout the day. Mhm. And Pablo Picasso was another one. He would take naps. So naps are great, you know, if you can't, if you can't get those regular hours. I mean, human beings have adapted to this sort of sleep at the same time every night and wake up in the morning cycle. But if you look at cultures across the world and over time, people do not always sleep through the night either.

So there's been quite a lot of research, hasn't there, like locking people in dark rooms 24 hours a day under their— obviously they consent to this. Um, and that there's, there's one experiment, I think it was carried out in Boston actually, that showed that after about a week, all of the participants started this dual night rhythm. I don't know if it's where they'll go to sleep, then they'd be awake for 1 or 2 hours, and then they'd go back to sleep again. And then there's someone else, there's an author who'd written, who's written a book about, he went back through hundreds and hundreds of historic records looking at sleep patterns, and it says that, you know, it's only up until recently we were still having this diurnal— that's what I mean, diurnal night pattern— where there would be a waking period of about 1 hour or 2 hours in the middle of the night.

Mm-hmm, absolutely.

It's really interesting. But I would also say on the less sleep, I think less sleep's great if you can have naps. But if you have less sleep and you don't have naps, you have someone like two great British leaders, Churchill who, who only had about 4 hours sleep a night, but he was drunk most of the time and was, was also a severe depressive. Um, and, and then you have—

amazing, so many facets.

Yeah. And then you have, um, Margaret Thatcher, who only slept for about 4 hours a night, but she got Alzheimer's. And oh my gosh, that could well be down to the plaques that were forming.

Yeah, beta amyloid does build up when you don't sleep enough. Yeah, beta amyloid is one of those things that are swept away at night when you're sleeping, which is the precursor to the Alzheimer's protein. People do have a— it's a, it's a bell curve. So some people need less sleep than others. So it's very individualized. Some people can function on 4 to 5 hours of sleep and do perfectly fine, but that's very rare. Okay, most people need 7 to 8 and adolescents need 8 to 10. But as an adult, if you sleep more than 8 hours, they've also associated that with increased mortality. So not too much, not too little.

It's like all things to do with the brain. How many hours do you sleep?

Everything.

How many hours do you sleep, Juna?

Well, now I sleep less. As you get older, you sleep less and less. I think I sleep like maybe 6 to 7 hours. Usually 7. I would average around 7, which is perfect. Um, my older son, he never was a napper. He stopped napping when he was 9 months old. He still doesn't need as much sleep. My daughter, if you didn't put her to bed at 7 PM, it was a nightmare. There was hell to pay. So she needs more sleep even now. So I mean, everybody varies in the amount of sleep they need.

And there's also the, um, what time of day and what time when you sleep, which is most effective. So circadian or circadian, depending on how you say it, rhythms, circadian rhythms.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Because there's, um, I don't know if you noticed in my—

that is set every single day. So when you first wake up in the morning, if you get sunlight in your eyes, you step outside, it, uh, it, You know, that's what sets your 24-hour rhythm, which is why circadian rhythm, you get jet lag and all this, but I've got, I don't know if you saw that. Which page is that?

Page 198. I don't know if you've got paperback there.

Oh yes. So you have on page 198 in Defining You, which everybody should buy this book, uh, the circadian rhythm.

Yeah.

And Sophie has outlined this, um, questionnaire.

I had to get permission from the Center for Disease Control in the States to put that in the book. So it's, um, perfect. It's, it's a nice, it's 19 questions and it's just quite fun, but it tells you whether you're an evening sort of person or a morning sort of person, when you're going to perform at your best.

Awesome. I'm definitely creative in the morning. Which I think a lot of creatives are.

I write best in the morning, but yet it wasn't until after university, so my mid-twenties, that I was actually— I was much more of a night owl until then.

That is true. Me too. I used to take all-night classes, and when I worked in the neuroscience lab, I was waking up at 1:00 PM and working till midnight. So definitely over time, your sleep patterns change, and teenagers definitely have that. Sort of, you know, going into the night owl situation.

Yeah.

Anyway, this was awesome. So 3 steps to emotional regulation. Number 1 is sleep. Get enough sleep. If you're an adolescent, 8 to 10 hours. If you're an adult, 7 to 8 hours. If, um, you have varying times, then don't get too freaked out about it. Don't get hung up on it. Just get, you know, get into a regular cycle. But if you find yourself lacking sleep, You can do what Fi's gonna tell us with your emotions. First of all, you could be aware that you didn't get enough sleep, right? Yeah. And that you might be a little more triggered than usual. Okay. So maybe you wanna avoid those people or situations that might trigger you normally.

Yeah, absolutely. And then it's, uh, emotion surfing there and just let it play out on its own. So Surf it, surf that emotion.

And coming from a surfer, because Fi is a surfer, right?

You're a surfer, Fi.

So when you're surfing, you're on top of the waves of emotion rather than going under, right? So you're kind of just—

well, and actually, the ocean is a really good analogy here because if you, you know, everyone will, I think, will have stood in the ocean and you have a wave come at you. And if you try and stand up against that wave, it hits you and it hurts. Or it knocks you over. And that's basically what an emotion does. If you try and fight with it, you're not going to win. So instead of doing that, if you've got your surfboard, jump on your surfboard and you just ride that wave out. You think, yeah, it's going to take me where it's going to take me, but I'm just going to ride it out. Um, so it's doing that. It's then, don't fight with it. Um, um, it's Speaking about it, talking about it to someone. It's about writing it down. Labeling the emotion can help. And then, then the, then you move on to step 3, which is everything's gone wrong. What do I do now?

Take a nap or meditate.

Take a nap, meditate, or, uh, and then learn from it. Cognitively reframe.

So into it for next time.

Growth mindset. Yeah.

Yes.

Yes. Awesome.

Easy to say, but it takes practice. It really does take practice, and I think that's a really, really important factor to remember as well, is don't start getting angry with yourself if you can't do it, because that's just going to perpetuate the feeling. It's like, okay, it's hard to do, it's a lot harder than it sounds, and so just keep trying, keep trying. That's what you need to do.

Okay, and the goal is to become aware of it while you're in it, but that might not always happen. And sometimes you might be in it, recognize it, and then you still can't stop it. You'll just watch yourself getting triggered, but at least you were aware of it, right? Yeah, yeah, take it in little steps. All right, thank you, it was so much fun as usual, and I can't wait till next month.

I can't wait either. Thanks, Juna Bobby MD.

Okay, so next time we're going to talk a little more and in depth about acceptance.

Yeah, great.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy.

Yeah, which you use— I mean, I use it with CEOs, and it's been shown to be effective.

You use it for coaching.

Yeah, but it's been used to being effective from improving creativity and innovation right through to dealing with more difficult emotions. That's a really helpful strategy.

Fantastic. So we're going to talk about Acceptance and Commitment Therapy in more detail and how we can apply it to high achievement. As well as difficult emotions.

Yep. Thank you. Take care.

Have an awesome day.

Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to my monthly chat with Fiona, where we focused on insights and practical actionable tips to help you and your kids reach your highest potential. Find out more about her at fionamurden.com. For topics that you'd like covered on the podcast or information on our STEM-based courses to boost resilience in youth and adults, email info@mindbodyspace.com, or go to mindbodyspace.com and opt in so you can get extra tips on the science of resilience in our newsletter. And you'll also get information on our neuroscience-powered planner and online courses, Plan to Soar and Soar Under Pressure, for kids, parents, educators, and professionals. Please share this podcast with anyone who believes in the scientific method and are curious about natural ways to boost performance, health, mental and physical resilience for themselves or their kids. Thank you so much. And until next time, this is Dr. Juna Bobby MD wishing you and your family wellness.