Lower Your Stress and Anxiety, While Losing Weight, and Finding Purpose with Hani Chaabo, M.D.

is a practice that's gonna start with a breathing exercise called a physiologic sigh. Or, you know, just to make that simpler, it's a double inhale sigh. The double inhale sigh is an evidence-based breathing exercise that switches our nervous system from fight or flight to rest and recover. And it's actually the fastest way to calm down the nervous system no matter what you're doing, whether somebody's triggering you. There's a lot of science that's shown that breathing exercises every day can be as effective to regulate nervous system as meditation. So for those that don't like meditation, this could be a very powerful one. So the trick is—

Welcome to the Mind Body Space Podcast, where you can stress less and boost your performance and wellness down to the cellular level just by listening. Hi, I'm Dr. Juna Bobby MD, passionate about sharing evidence-based tips to keep you and your family well. For the past 10 years, I've been teaching the science of resilience to high-achieving individuals at many different schools and organizations, And currently I'm on faculty at the Juilliard School Pre-College Division, teaching gifted students how to stress less and perform at their best. I started this podcast because I wanted to share what I learn with my students, fellow parents, educators, and anyone who's interested as I explore fascinating topics like neuroscience and meditation with experts in education, medicine, and psychology. Your support makes this possible. Please subscribe and share with a family friend, anyone who needs to stress less, boost performance, and be happier. If you have questions for my guests or for me, or if you have a topic that you'd like us to cover, please head on over to mindbodyspace.com/podcast and ask away, and we will answer your questions on the podcast on the last Friday of every month. If you need a good night's sleep, head on over to my YouTube channel, Fall Asleep Easy, to drift off and sleep like a baby. I'm so excited to have with me today Dr. Hani Chhabba. He's a physician trained in family medicine and integrative medicine, as well as psychiatric medicine including counseling and addiction. Specifically, he trained in Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction, Jon Kabat-Zinn's program, and he's extensively studied mindfulness intervention in healthcare. He believes in nutritional therapy, mind-body medicine, cognitive behavioral therapy, and biofeedback. All down my alley. He and his partner created Mindfulist.com to promote mindfulness, mental health, and lifestyle changes. They make wellness education more accessible and easy to digest and fun. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Ani.

Hi, Juna Bobby MD.

I'm so happy to see you.

Me too.

You have such a cute accent. Where are you from?

Thank you. I'm Lebanese by origin. Thank you so much.

Oh, okay. I love the accent. It's so pretty.

Thank you. And you look great and I love your bio and everything you're doing. So really, thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor to, to do this with you. So thank you. Really, I can't express my gratitude enough. Thank you.

Oh my gosh, you're so sweet. Okay. You practice mindfulness and gratitude. I love this field because most people, I would say, try to practice what they preach. So there's kindness going around.

I hope so. That's what we're trying to do. And I know you, you are also specialized in mindfulness and all that.

More about signs of stress, which obviously all meditation falls into. I was just talking to another podcast guest and I was talking about how I listened to Jon Kabat-Zinn when I was in a place of, in my life where I needed some support and I loved listening to him and I started listening to him again during the pandemic. So I love his program. For me, I really love the neuroscience aspect.

Me too. Absolutely.

Did you start doing this when you graduated medical school? Because it looks like you went straight to integrative medicine.

Yes. So I actually, I would say this work started for me when I was like 20 years old, when I got into yoga and meditation and just changed a lot of things about my health, my weight, my mood, just the way I was navigating life. So it really started then, but I would say like professionally, this started during medical school. I started to just focus more of my practice around lifestyle change and stress management. Started doing a community group through a yoga studio. So that was the beginning of this program that I deliver now in my clinic. And then integrative medicine, I actually did straight out of residency.

Yes. Family medicine residency. And then you went right to Andrew Weil's program. Did you do it in person or remote?

So it's actually hybrid. So it's a great program. I would really recommend it if you're up for it. I know it's a commitment, but it definitely transformed my practice, I would say, and like the way I approach medicine for sure.

I'm sure. Yeah, no, I would be interested in it. I just don't know. I got board certified in lifestyle medicine.

Nice.

Amazing. So you were talking about how you were approaching things. So was that in medical school or before medical school? And were you talked about your weight and yoga? Can you go a little more in detail about that time of your life? I don't know when that was.

Yeah, that was, I would say in my like early adulthood, like in my twenties, I was obese. I was unhappy. I struggled with anxiety a lot. I still struggle with anxiety, but I would say I, in college and through medical school, I was definitely not, I would say my, my best self. I wasn't. Very much into self-compassion, self-care, mindfulness, all that stuff. I just, I struggled a lot with my mood, my perception of myself. At that time I was actually in Lebanon and as an LGBT individual, it was, there was a lot of layers, let's say, to navigate there.

It's not well accepted there right now.

Lebanon is really the only Arab country with an openly gay population. So it's definitely accepted much more than the rest of the Arab world, but we definitely experience a lot of homophobia. Homophobia and discrimination. And that's something I experienced throughout my career there and throughout my, my childhood.

Yeah. So you went to medical school in Lebanon. Yes. And so you had to switch over here. That must have been a process, right? Getting all of your degrees set up. That's a lot of work. That's like another fellowship. Yeah. That's a lot of work.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's really hard to match in the US. I had to do my residency. Yeah.

Okay.

So, you know, my specialization.

Congratulations. That's a huge Feet.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. But I'm sure medicine is like really advanced in Lebanon, right? Like you guys have rules and stuff.

It's, yeah, thanks to the American University of Beirut and my university, the University of Balamand, we have like really high standards in terms of the education there. We follow the American system. Thankfully all of us who match in the US end up doing very well because of that. So yeah, we're very fortunate to have a good medical system.

However, when you got to the States, you weren't in a good way. You were openly gay in Lebanon and you felt ostracized.

Ostracized, discriminated, judged.

So all the words. Yeah. Okay. And especially probably like in medical, the medical field, maybe they were more conservative.

Yes. I definitely was not like my most authentic self, I would say, during medical school, but I, I, so it all started with getting introduced to yoga, diet, that all happened in my early 20s. And that was really like a saving grace to help me navigate all of those layers that we've been discussing. And I would say like when I came to the US and I, I got into mindfulness as like, uh, as the program, the Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction program, and then I started to marry that with my integrative medicine training. That's when I really started to see the magic happen for my patients.

Okay. So when you came here, you were already, were you clinically obese and felt depressed or?

I was still struggling with anxiety. I would say physically my obesity, I started to deal with that in my mid-20s, like through medical school. Started to deal with that. Yeah, I was obese till I was about 28 years old and I'm 35 now.

And then during residency, you discovered yoga?

I, my early 20s, and that was kind of the beginning of starting to move my body and feel comfortable in my body and, and something about my health. I remember like I would feel very out of breath in the middle of classes. I'd kind of sit down in the middle and then my, my yoga teacher was actually now my friend. And I remember her kind of like encouraging, you know, like, come on, you can do this. And I remember just all the feelings that came with that, which meant the feeling of defeat. I remember how like inflexible I was. Now I can split. So that's been like a major milestone for me. But I remember a time where I, I couldn't even sit down comfortably without feeling my legs going numb.

Oh my gosh. Wow. Thank you for sharing all this. Who got you into yoga? How did you start?

My best friend and husband. So my husband was already into it. I had just met him at the time. He took me to my first class and, uh, I met him when I was 19 years old.

And so he took you to yoga and this amazing teacher who's still your best friend.

Yes.

Like really guided you and wow, that's an amazing story.

Yes. I, I'm very fortunate. I would really think like all the good things that have happened in my life is because I ran into the right people. Thankfully.

Tell me a little more about the yoga journey. So you start going to class and then obviously I guess you did meditation. Is that how you got into?

Yes. Yes, it was the beginning of meditation for sure. It was also the beginning of community, you know, feeling like, oh, look at all these like very unconventional people here that all just are very loving and accepting and embodying these beautiful concepts of yoga. And it's not religious, which for me was a big one cuz I grew up raised very conservative. Of course I don't identify with any of that, but that was the environment I was raised in. And when I let go of that and, you know, when I started to, you know, accept myself as a gay man when I was about 16 years old, I let go of all religiosity and I kind of had an allergy to it. So when, when I, you know, walked to a yoga class and experienced community and spirituality, that was also like something very mind-blowing for me. And that's what kept me going, you know, to come back and to keep working on my body, on my mental health. And meditation for me, I remember also just like my body felt tight and I remember meditation was Very, very difficult experience for me. I actually didn't pick up meditation when I started yoga. I, I kind of discounted meditation. I'm like, ah, this is not for me. I can never do this.

Did you run away when you did Shavasana? Those people, it's like, I don't need to lie here. I'm leaving.

Yes. Me and my husband, we were like the ones packing up and leaving. Absolutely.

Wait, this must've been a really special studio though, because it's in West Virginia and you're like, it was just this beautiful place and accepting and I mean, because I'm in New York and there's a lot of yoga studios where it's just yoga and the teachers don't even say, make space for your neighbor. And it makes such a big difference.

Yeah, of course it does.

I'm, I'm interested that you found this in West Virginia.

So this was actually in Lebanon, Juna Bobby MD. Even more special. Yeah. An island of acceptance and love and kindness in a place that's very chaotic and unstable and conservative. So it was beautiful. And you know what? When you, 'cause you mentioned West Virginia, West Virginia, there was a yoga studio there that was actually the beginning. They were the first people to allow me to do a mindfulness workshop with the community, and I, it was so successful. I did it 4 times in their yoga studio over the course of 2 years. And again, also there, they were an island of acceptance and kindness. And for me, yoga studios have always been that place, you know, where I can just walk in and, and find my people. I know like in places like New York where it's become like yoga is just an industry now. Yes, it's really hard. Like one time I went to a yoga studio here in Santa Monica and that was definitely a very different experience than that. The one, you know, the more spiritual experiences I had in West Virginia and in Lebanon. Absolutely.

Yeah. So ironic, right?

Absolutely.

These two unexpected places. That's amazing. Okay, so you started doing community-based work. And how did you find the MBSR program with Jon Kabat-Zinn?

Oh, that was another series of fortunate events and, and angelic people that dropped into my life. So because meditation was so transformative to me, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit and tell you about medical school in Lebanon. That's where I felt really depressed for the first time, and I questioned everything. I questioned if I wanted to be a doctor. I remember like very difficult conversations I was having around that with my parents and with my partner. And with my colleagues. And at that point I stumbled on a book. Books have always also been my saving grace. I don't know how they appear out of nowhere, but sometimes the right book just drops in your lap. And this book was called How to Get from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by a phenomenal author named Cheri Huber. And it was really an ambitious title. Like, I didn't want to be where I was, but the book itself was about meditation. And so I was like, oh my God, here we go again. Okay, I have to, I have to give this another chance now. And so I started meditating for 1 minute a day. It was probably one of the most difficult experiences ever. And from there I started to build on that 2 minutes a day, 3 minutes a day, and now I can meditate for hours and, and feel great because meditation was so transformative to me. It, it really helped me like accept where I was. It showed me, you know what, you can, you can continue being a doctor and you can also forge your own path, which I know that that's something you also did yourself to forge your own path. That was very transformative for me as a doctor. And because of that, I felt like, okay, now it's my role and my calling to share meditation with my patients as a lifestyle effort because it helped me achieve so many of my goals. It didn't just help me manage my stress, it also helped me lose weight. It helped me become more active. It helped me see into the future and be more intentional with myself and my goals. It helped me love myself and become more compassionate, less judgmental. So it was so transformative that I, okay, I came into residency, I had to do a research project, and I thought, you know what, this is what I want to do. I want to do research on meditation in family medicine in a patient population. And at the time, my program director was just like an angel. He still is. I consider him my father today from a past life. And he was like, okay, if this is what you want to do, let's see like who we can connect you with. And so in the psychiatry department, there was a doctor who was actually a monk previously, a Buddhist monk.

What's his name?

Dr. Kerr.

You need to introduce me to him.

Wonderful man.

That sounds amazing. Okay, I've never heard of a monk becoming an allopathic physician.

Yeah, he was a wonderful human being. Oh my God. Kind of my first introduction. I had never met a Buddhist monk before, so it was like my introduction into this marriage between meditation, mindfulness, and medicine. And so we embarked on a literature review and I learned so much about medicine. And then at the time, And also, so here's another fortunate event that happened. There was another doctor, another wonderful man who I'm sure you would also love having on your show. He was actually the director of public health of Charleston, West Virginia, and a student of Dr. John Kabat-Zinn. He was invited to give a training program for the psychiatrists in our residency. And I was invited. I was the only non-psychiatry resident invited to attend this 8-week program. So that we could learn to bring mindfulness practices to our patients. So that's where I learned it for the first time.

What is his name?

Dr. Michael Brumage. Brumage is B-R-U-M-A-G-E. First name is Michael. Wonderful human being. A lot of people think, you know, meditation is like to sit down and to close your eyes and do a breathing exercise, but also meditation is like looking at ourselves, reflecting on ourselves, seeing how we want to move through the world, what kind of goals we have for ourselves. And it's really interesting that there's even a Harvard study that was done on primary care patients that showed that just practicing mindfulness can lead to desired health change in a primary care setting. So there's something so beautiful about practicing that awareness, taking that moment. And for me, mindfulness has become a formula of awareness plus intentionality. Like whenever I become aware of anything, a pattern, or a behavior or a toxic relationship, a place in my life that I want to be or don't want to be, awareness is the first step that allows me to become intentional and do something about it. And there's something about mindfulness that also allows us to become more intentional. There's a lot of studies that showed that practicing mindfulness makes us able to practice more attention and focus. And those are the key ingredients of intentionality, is to be able to gear myself in the right direction and keep myself heading there. I think what gets in the way way of that also is a lot of this like judgment piece, this negative self-talk we have with ourselves. And like for me especially, like imposter syndrome was something I had to work on so much in my therapy, even as a, as a doctor.

I almost wanna say it's not a syndrome because almost every single high achieving person has that unless they're delusional, I guess then. Maybe the delusional, I think the other one is pathologic more. I think this is almost normal, right?

It's a fine line.

Like you said, it's our thoughts just going off and it's the ability to pay attention to which thoughts. Absolutely. Right. And which thoughts are true and which thoughts are not, which is CBT, which you love also, right? So maybe you could talk a little bit about CBT.

Yeah, absolutely.

You're going through psychiatry now. Are you in a fellowship?

Yes, I'm in a primary care psychiatry fellowship with the University of California in Irvine.

They didn't have that before. I guess they need it so badly, right?

Yes. Agreed. Yes.

Because normal psych, you have to go through 5, 6 years of psychiatry, but now they have a combined family medicine. That is brilliant.

I love that.

Yes.

It's actually because, you know, mental health specialists are a rarity. We have such a deficiency of psychiatrists and just mental health specialists in general, whether they were therapists or primary care doctors prescribing mental health therapies. So this was actually part of a statewide effort here in California to start to address some of that, rechanneling some of our primary care docs into mental health.

I love it.

So it's a really great program, scholarship-funded, Um, it's just, it's changed my practice again.

Oh, well, congratulations.

Uh, now I'm thinking very much like focused on mental health.

How long training?

It's a year long.

Oh wow. That's amazing. You know, the one person who I will say really transformed my whole life, like you said, people show up. And so this guy, Morty, I don't know if he's around anymore even. I lost touch with him, but when I was going through a very difficult time, I lost my mother and my best friend at the same time. He was like my therapist. I think I met him once in person and then it was mostly phone after. I found out he was not a psychiatrist and then I was surprised, but he was like in his 70s or 80s. So he was from California and he said when he was out there in primary care, there was so much mental health issues and this was like in the '60s and there's so much drug addiction and stuff. And yeah, he said he was in a clinic and he just with people with their mental health and they just loved him. So he just did it his whole life. He never had psychiatry training. But he affected me more than anyone ever. Like, he was amazing. Wow.

There you go. Do you know if he's done any work on himself? Like, has he, do you know anything about like what his background and his own mental health journey was?

Yeah, he actually told me issues with his mom or parents, but he also had trained in this unconditional love and gratitude, and that's what was on his description. That's why I picked him.

And that's why he helped you so much. I, I really feel like, uh, it's great to have a psychiatry training for sure. It's very important. You can't do psychiatry without the training, but I think the heart and the, the, the ability to help and help others heal, that comes from the work we've done on ourselves. No matter how much training we do, we can't help others until we've looked at those things in ourselves. So yeah, I'm not surprised, you know, he's shared his own healing with you.

Yeah, no, that's profound what you're saying. And I mean, they've researched that where people, teachers who, or psychologists who practice mindfulness or like self-compassion, they had better outcomes in their work, even though they didn't even know how to do it. They just did it for themselves.

Primary care docs too. Yeah. Across the healthcare workers and nurses and yeah, so much studies now being done about like healthcare workers, the empathy and compassion and what kind of outcomes that has for their patients, whether it's patients being able to fulfill their health goals or Listening to their recommendations more, being more compliant to treatments. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. Compliance with sessions and all of that. Oh my God. So cool. Oh, I just want to go back to, I'm just curious because you look very thin, not thin in a bad way, like just you're very fit.

Thank you.

So I'm curious, like how much weight did you lose?

I lost, I would say about 80 pounds. Wow. Yeah.

And you kept it off, obviously.

I did.

Yeah.

The surprising part is because a lot of people actually end up regaining the weight. So for me, it's like the biggest triumph has been keeping it off.

Yeah, tell me about that. I'm dealing with some menopausal weight, so I could use some help. Tell me, how do you do that?

You know, I always think like, uh, it's sometimes unfair to be a woman because of all the things that, you know, like women have to go through that men don't go through.

Oh, but I got to have my kids. I mean. And oh my gosh, it was the best thing ever.

So, and women are smarter and more emotionally intelligent and more self-reflective.

Definitely not. I mean, it just depends on who it is. I totally disagree with that. I think, you know, we all have our strengths, right? We men have strengths. So I want to get back to you for a little bit before we go. So I wanted you to talk to us about the weight loss journey.

Sure.

I also wanted you to give us key takeaways for people that they can use in their lives. Maybe you can walk us through one or two things maybe that you do, that one-minute thing you used to do that you started with? Absolutely.

Sure. So I would say like the biggest takeaways for weight loss is first of all, the judgment piece. In our clinic, we work with people on lifestyle change. I have a health coach and I will tell you every day there are people in our clinic that are crying, feeling defeated. You know, we always hear things like, I work harder than everybody else and I can't keep it off. I do all the things I've tried so many times, it never works. So those kind of like big statements, those big generalizations about the journey, about where we're at, about what we can or can't do. I think, you know, the biggest headline is if we keep approaching our journey with judgment, we are fueling ourselves. That's actually keeping us doing the behaviors that we want to change, the negative behaviors, because all of, all of those behaviors are coming from a place in the brain that promotes negative behaviors, and that's usually the place that's considered the lower brain. And when we judge ourselves, we're actually putting our nervous system in a place of fight or flight. We're putting ourselves in that kind of that lower brain activation. And like you said earlier, you know, we do all these practices so that we can really wire into that higher brain and, and get all the beautiful benefits of the higher brain. And so compassion comes from the higher brain. It's actually a, um, able to access compassion and it's a life skill that we all need because many of us weren't given those life skills when we were raised. You know, a lot of us grew up in homes where our caregivers weren't the most compassionate people. Often they were the most judgmental people in our lives. And so we, we, and that's that compassion piece. It's when you were reflecting on our parents and the rigidity that they had to You know, in both of their situations, that was like a coping mechanism to be rigid, to need predictability. That's us seeing compassion towards them so that we can heal something about ourselves that we might think negatively about them, which is also so important. So that, you know, reframing, you know, cognitive reframing, you know, reframing from judgment to compassion. It's so important. So anytime I'm working on my weight, you know, anytime I overeat because I'm stressed out. Or anytime I'm looking at myself in the mirror and I notice like, oh, I've gone a little bit backwards with my weight and my journey. I notice myself, like the first thing I would do is to put myself down, is to judge myself, to judge myself, become my own best friend in those situations, to tell myself, okay, you fell off the wagon yesterday. Okay, what are we gonna do today to counteract yesterday? And to do that very quickly, not to like stress eat again the next day and then again the day after.

Not to wait 3 months like I did.

Like all of us do. Like all of us do. And so that's, I would say like the first piece is to really like pay attention, like that awareness, you know, of judgment and to become more intentional towards becoming our own best friends in this journey.

What do you say to yourself? Do you have a little script that you say to yourself, like a coach saying to yourself, you know, like talk to yourself in the third person, which I think is really actually neurologically helpful. Do you have a script?

Yeah, not a script, but I've built a person in my head. That is my best friend. Also to kind of like mirror that a little bit, I've also become very familiar with the person that doesn't help me in my head. His name is Geppetto because he makes me behave like Pinocchio. I'm not my most authentic self. I don't feel like I'm a real boy, you know, and I want to be anyone but myself when I'm in Geppetto in my head. And Geppetto is the one that makes me feel bad about myself when I'm stress eating, when I gain a little bit of weight, et cetera. And so I don't have a script, but I definitely like have a kind of, I would say, an algorithm is to first of all, okay, to my heart, where am I right now? What am I saying? Is it coming from my heart or is it coming from Geppetto? That's the first step I usually do is ask myself, okay, how can I come from my heart, right? And I usually start talking to myself as if I'm like my own parent in those situations is, you're doing this, just get back on the wagon. You know, the trick is to get back on the wagon. That's the trick. The trick isn't not falling off the wagon. We will all fall off the wagon and we'll keep doing it. The trick is in getting back on the wagon and staying on as long as you can.

Oh, that's awesome. I love it. The skill is knowing how to climb back on.

Yes.

Yeah. And then we were gonna do a 1-minute practice and then you're gonna give us a couple of takeaways.

Yes, let's do it. So what I'm gonna share with you right now is a practice that's gonna start with a breathing exercise called a physiologic sigh, or, you know, just to make that simpler, it's a double inhale sigh. And then we're gonna move into a little self-compassion practice, and then I'll tell you a little story about that practice after we're done, just to kind of really share with you how that's helped me in my life. The double inhale sigh is an evidence-based breathing exercise that switches our nervous system from fight or flight to rest and recover. And it's actually the fastest way to calm down the nervous system, no matter what you're doing, whether somebody's triggering you, whether you're in the argument. I do this exercise when I'm about to present. I did it right before we started today. No one will know you're doing it, so I would really recommend You keep this practice close in your pocket anytime you're triggered. And I usually also do it at every stoplight, even if I'm not triggered, because there's a lot of science that's shown that breathing exercises every day can be as effective to regulate nervous system as meditation. So for those that don't like meditation, this could be a very powerful one. So the trick is in the exhale because the exhale comes from our rest and recover nervous system. So the more time I spent in my exhale, the more I'm actually encouraging my nervous system to, to be in the parasympathetic space. So we're gonna inhale twice. We're gonna inhale and inhale again on top of that, and then we're gonna exhale as long as we can, and we're gonna do 5 rounds of that. And then I'm gonna guide us through a compassion exercise. So if I can ask you to close your eyes, sit in a comfortable position, back straight, feet on the ground, and when you're ready, take a deep breath in. And then another breath in and exhale as long as you can to wherever is comfortable and at your own pace whenever you're ready. Again, inhale, inhale again, and exhale as long as you can. On your own pace, whenever you're ready, again inhale, inhale again, and exhale. Beautiful, two more. Inhale, inhale again, and on the exhale, relax the eyebrows, relax the jaw, the shoulders, the thighs and the toes. Beautiful. Last one. Let's make it nice, long, and luscious. Inhale. Inhale again. And exhale. Relax the eyebrows, jaw, shoulders, thighs, and toes. And then come back to an easy breath. Notice any changes. Maybe there are some, maybe there aren't any, doesn't matter, no judgment, just noticing. And then when you're ready, bring to mind a person, pet, place, or memory that embodies the word love for you. So if it's a person, Really make them clear in your mind. Use all your senses. See them smiling back at you, full of admiration in their eyes. Maybe feel them give you a hug, feel their warmth, smell them, hear their voice. If it's a pet, maybe you're petting them, maybe you can feel their purr on your lap, or you can see how excited they are when they greet you, that tail wagging so hard, can't sit still. And if it's a place, put yourself there. What about that place embodies love and compassion for you? So using all your senses. And then just notice, how does the space of love and compassion open for you? Maybe it's a feeling of warmth in your heart or a tingling in your head or or just a general sense of calm. That's you tapping into your higher brain, where compassion lives. So before we end this exercise, let's have some well wishes for ourselves. So in your heart and mind's eye, just repeat these statements to yourself. May I be safe. May I be loved. May I live with ease always. May I be safe. May I be loved. May I live with ease always. Just for a and taking that in, and maybe feeling some gratitude for this moment, for yourself. If you're listening to this podcast, you're probably more fortunate than three-quarters of the world, so maybe feeling gratitude for being here and being fortunate. Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn says, as long as you're breathing, there's more right with you than wrong with you, no matter the circumstance. So when you're ready, take a deep breath in and on the exhale, flutter your eyes open and come back.

It's so nice to be on the other end.

Thank you.

That was lovely. That was the best podcast because, I mean, no offense to my other podcast guests, but you led me through such a peaceful meditation.

I'm sure.

Thank you so much.

I'm sure I feel the same way when I'm on the other end too.

I got tears in my eyes when I was thinking of my babies.

You look so peaceful.

When I first saw them on my chest, you know, that's the one that I always go back to whenever I do the, that kind of exercise and it's so vivid, but it always comes with a little bit of tears, but it's happy, happy tears, you know? Thank you, honey.

Thank you. Thank you so much. And if you don't mind, I'd just like to add those 3 statements. So for me, those 3 statements have been one of the most transformative mantras I repeat to myself. It helped me with my crippling anxiety when I play piano, and it helped me with my coworker in places where I was feeling hateful to colleagues when things were going a little bit tough. And I really want to remind everyone that's listening to us that compassion is a skill. The more you repeat those statements, the more you're wiring into your compassionate brain. So remember the breathing anytime you're stressed out, and remember the 3 statements. Anytime you're judging yourself or you're in a hateful place. They're very, very transformative. May I be safe. May I be loved. May I live with ease always.

Uh, thank you so much for being here. Can you please tell everybody where they can find you?

Oh yes, absolutely. So I actually, uh, have a website, mindfulest.com, like fabulous, not mindfulness, mindfulest like fabulous.com, where I have a bunch of free tools actually that people can, I have a program on there also. Stress management program. And you can also find me on Instagram, same thing, Mindfulness. So please find me, talk to me. I love connecting with everyone.

And you have an awesome meditation voice. Love it. Love it.

Thank you.