Part 1: Laurie Cameron author of The Mindful Day and CEO of Purpose Blue

So the way I frame it is, you know, we all have a to-do list that's pretty long, most of us, and we can either execute those tasks and make those calls and have those meetings, and we can do it with stress and focus and irritability. We're distracted, our mind's all over the place, we're getting frustrated with people. We either go through the day and do the same to-do list with by spending a lot of energy and feeling depleted at the end of the day, or we can go through that same to-do list with more ease, a little more efficiency, a little more focus, a little more calm, a little more joy. Because, you know, if I'm calm and centered and, and in a very balanced state and I tackle a creative project or even a, even a task I don't enjoy, like I just do it with less, like, irritation. I can always, you know, grab people there. They're always like, "Yeah, you're right.

Yeah, that would be nice if day to day it was easier." Welcome to RxChill Pill, the podcast that strengthens your resilient mind every time you listen to the extraordinary stories, expert tips, and meditations to elicit your relaxation response, the antidote to your stress response. I'm Dr. Juna Bobby MD. I'm a physician and mom specializing in mind-body and lifestyle medicine. Find out more about me, my personalized online courses on procrastination and mindset coaching for kids, teens, and adults at mindbodyspace.com. I am so grateful to have with me today Laurie Cameron. Laurie is the real deal. She's warm and funny and just so genuine, and I loved spending time with her. She's the author of "The Mindful Day: Practical Ways to Find Focus, Calm, and Joy from Morning to Evening," ranked number 2 on Washington Post bestseller list in 2019. Laurie learned how to breathe in the most unusual place. Her colleague, who was an engineer from Vietnam, introduced her to mindfulness at work. Listen as we talk about how her mindfulness practice found its way into her corporate life, eventually transforming her coaching business Purpose Blue into a mindfulness-based training for schools and corporations. Laurie firmly believes in the wellness that mindfulness and self-compassion can bring into our lives. So we had so much fun talking, this turned into a 3-part series. The first 2 parts, we talk about her work building communities in schools and corporations, and she generously shares her best practices and experience with us. The 3rd part is a special treat. Laurie leads us through a mindful meditation on uncertainty. I'll be releasing these 3 parts over Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, as we can all use some calm around this time of uncertainty and unrest as we wait to find out who our next president is going to be. I hope it helps you as much as it helped me.

Hi, so good to see you.

Hi.

You look great. Did you have some relaxing days at the beach? I did.

I just spent 8 days at the beach.

Oh, wow. So did you completely unplug?

I intended on that when I booked it. I had some big things come through, some big client engagements, and I said yeah. And then I did a special thing for a nonprofit. So I had some events on Zoom. So I was in a hotel that promised a strong Wi-Fi, so I I did 3 events when I was there.

Wow, so it was a working vacation then.

I love what I do, facilitating this kind of conversation about being present and, you know, where and all of that, and guiding meditations with people. I get so much out of it. I, you know, I realize that when I'm guiding meditations, it's some of my best practice ever. There's something about serving other people where I'm really deeply into it and focused. And it's so— I don't even think of it as a working vacation, you know. It was like I got 3 times to do these beautiful sessions while I'm at the beach. So it was— I just feel really fortunate about having such alignment with work and life.

So you feel like you meditated too, right? When you lead the meditations, I have that same experience.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. So I'm not, um, it's not like I'm— that's not true for everyone, but for me, I'm in the practice when I'm guiding the practice, and that helps me do a much better job.

Yeah, I know exactly how you feel. Definitely. I feel calmer when I do recordings and things like that.

Yeah, yeah. So you're radiating that energy right now.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. So would you mind leading us through a meditation at the end?

Oh, no problem.

Awesome.

Happy, happy to.

Yay! So everybody keep listening because Laurie's gonna lead us through a meditation at the end. People were asking me questions about what's concerning them at this time with everything that's going on in the world right now, elections coming up and all the issues On the news, you know, everybody is pretty stressed out.

This one was sent in by our listener Aviva Kamender, clinical social worker and psychotherapist.

How do you help isolated teens with a history of maybe some anxiety or depression who are feeling unmotivated and hopeless? And everything is amplified right now with the uncertainty, with COVID and the violence and the social unrest. And the global climate change. It's like a big list of things happening all at once, right?

Yeah, it's really, really challenging for teens, and that's top of mind for me because I do have a daughter entering the 11th grade. And there's really a number of things that we can do. You talked about the isolation, and one of the things that we need to do is create rhythm and systems and structures in the home as well as in the larger community. So we've been doing that together where we agree in the morning on when our coming together times are. So for us, it's mealtime, all 3 meal times, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We do an evening walk together. We try to— we have some, you know, favorite activities that we like to do, and I'm sure they're unique in each family, but Um, we love watching this, a really funny show, and I think it's so important to laugh. Um, we also, we also love painting, so we paint together.

What's your favorite show right now?

It's a TV show that my daughter introduced me to called— it's really odd humor, but it's, um, called like Wet Hot American Summer, and it's about kids at a summer camp.

Oh, I haven't heard of that, so I'm gonna have to check that out.

So Netflix. Anyway, the humor is really you know, strange, but we were laughing the whole time, and that's, I think, what matters. So internal structure in the house for connection, especially because with Zoom classroom and Zoom working, everybody's off in their own private rooms and stations for, for sound reasons. I think that's important. And also that we don't just float in and out of our spaces, but we agree up front on when to come together. And then I think it's so important to come together physically in this time of virtual, you know, virtual communication and isolation. So today in my neighborhood here in Maryland, our neighborhood has hired the Good Humor truck. So he will be free from 3:00 PM to 5:00 PM. And we have a fairly small neighborhood and he will be driving through. We all know him by name.

Nice.

Playing his music and people are— and he's stopping on each street so there's not a big gathering. So it's even COVID, you know, ice cream man, but it's a way to create connections. So about every other week in our neighborhood, we have some physical outdoor thing where people are— we did a dance party recently where the DJ opened up the back of his car and had, you know, the mirrored ball and music blaring, and each block had a dance party. And he moved through this little neighborhood and we all knew we were doing it. So then everybody was taking walks and waving and all that. So those are just a few neighborhood examples. But I think that we can do it with deliberate focus and some creativity. And it's so important for the kids. It's also important for, for all ages.

I love those ideas. I'm moving to your neighborhood. That's amazing.

It's an old neighborhood.

Who— oh, you've known them for a long time?

Well, no, I mean, it's just been here for a long time. In fact, the house that I'm sitting in right now talking to you was a schoolhouse 107 years ago.

Wow.

For 100 students. It's not a very big house, but, um, it's just a— just a neighborhood that before they had a school, they decided to use this house for a year while school was being built. But, you know, I like that. I like stories.

And so you have like a neighborhood association that somebody's in charge of running?

We have a village manager.

Oh, well, that's nice. And does she do that on a voluntary basis or?

She's paid. And so we have a neighborhood fund, so that pays for her and other neighborhood services.

So that's wonderful.

That helps with connection.

But do you guys stick to the schedule once you have it?

My daughter actually went to Germany and she just got back Friday night and now it's Monday morning. So we had a little planning meeting as we were kicking off this new virtual life. And so we said, let's come together.

I mean, I think, I think, you know, the key is to keep trying, right?

Yeah.

I've definitely started those things where we're like, we're all going to eat together. And it starts out fine and we have conversation. We went through the alphabet. With each alphabet, we came up with a new topic of conversation at dinner. But we got to like maybe K and then everybody just started disappearing again. Somebody was out and, you know, nobody was around. I'm like, hey, wait, I'm eating by myself. So we started picking it back up. But again, you know, things fall apart and then they just pick it up again.

You just pick it up and restart, and you, you start it the same way, or you modify it a little bit and say, okay, now what do we want to do? You know, that's, um, I mean, I'm thinking of how to— I'm really focused on community right now. So it's, it's interesting you started off with the question of isolation, which already was, was a significant problem in our culture in the United States. And now just exacerbated by the pandemic. So I've been, I've been looking at the question of community for a few years, and I'm more committed than ever to do it. And it's really challenging because it's hard to have people over for dinner or have parties and gatherings. So I'm starting to think with, with my family, how can we get together with two other families the way we used to. So we haven't been doing that. We've been actually traveling a bit. Just really not traveling, but relocating here and there, just trying to change the walls around us. But now I really wanna look at whether it's a distanced fire pit gathering in the backyard, or I did a couple gatherings in the front yard with neighbors this summer. Everybody could walk to their house who was invited. And so, and it was BYOB, so everybody was strolling down the street with their own beverages. And I had chairs and everything distanced in the front yard. And then if people had to use the restroom, they went home. It was very strange.

Oh, that's funny.

Yeah, so it was like very, very safe and everyone was quite relieved. I like that, I like that. You know, we're all so happy to hang out and laugh.

It sounds like Halloween used to be when my kids were little, everybody was, all the neighbors would be strolling, all the parents with wine and beer in there.

Yeah, yeah.

So tell me about the community thing that you've been focusing on the last few years.

Well, you know, I do it with my corporate clients, and, um, and I'm also doing it my personal life, you know, these ideas that we're sharing, because I'm a senior fellow at the Center for the Advancement of Well-Being, and One of the pillars of well-being is community. I mean, it really, really is. We're a tribal species and we need connection and we need physical connect, you know, we need to be in the presence of one another. And while my business, since I'm the CEO of Purpose Blue, a mindful leadership company, while that's really never been busier in the last few months, I think with the crisis of emotional well-being, So I'm working virtually, but I have not let go of the fact of how important it is to physically be together. But right now, the communities we've created at Deloitte, for example, we have a Mindful Leader Community, which includes, you know, over 4,000 people that have been through our programs. And we meet up online and we practice together. We, you know, I use kind of the poll and say, okay, which practice do you want to do? And we do a lot of the practices we've done in the programs, but we also, I take live Q&A. I do, you know, ask me anything. And they ask the questions of the day, whether it's dealing with the, you know, most recent difficult news item of the day from politics to the climate to fires in California to systemic racism, you know, all of this comes into this community practice. And so we're nurturing community in formal and informal ways, and that's really key. We also have networks of mindfulness champions that we're setting up. In some companies we call them ambassadors, in others well-being wizards, and others champions. And these are people that have mindfulness or contemplative practice tradition, and they want to be a catalyst so that then we can set up more physical spaces or hikes or gatherings. So we do virtual and in-person, but it's more important than ever.

But the people that have met, are coming together virtually, you've met them in person before, right?

Many of them, because first take Deloitte for example, I've— my company has been there for a long time, for 5 years. So for many of them, I've met them in person, or they've been in programs facilitated by someone on my team. So we have a really great team and reach all over the US. But now we've redesigned our whole curriculum, so everything is virtual.

Awesome.

So people in the community have I've never met in person yet.

And do you feel that it takes away in any way? I find that it goes both ways. I mean, sometimes when you're in a room with a large audience, you're not going to see each person. But when you're on Zoom, you can actually almost see everyone if they turn their camera on.

Yeah, right.

Not everyone does.

You know, I love that you brought that up because not many people bring it up that there's pros or benefits to this new way of coming together for meetings. And, and I'm finding the same thing. So I really miss the physical aspect, you know, the 3D relational way of being together. But I'm noticing that there's a, an intimacy in the virtual space, the way we connect, you know, the way people can hear me and the way I can hear them is quite intimate versus when I'm in a ballroom or doing a, you know, a large keynote and people are very, very far away. So there's an energy to that. Now, I think you and I talked in July when I did the first keynote this way, this format. What I noticed is, and what I heard was that people felt I don't know, more of an intimacy, an increased ability to emotionally connect with this close-up space. So I'm sure that varies by person, and it does depend on whether we have our videos on. We talk about that when we set up these programs, and we do a lot of experiential things and, and pairs and breakouts and so on. So part of that always is video on. Oh yeah, I don't know, there's something beautiful, I think, about the way we can connect and the way people are more comfortable speaking up. So some people will speak up in a group, but other people are quite willing to put something in the chat but not necessarily willing to speak up.

And I'm—

well, it requires me to multitask, which is exactly the very thing I'm— yes, I'm teaching, you know, against. As I'm looking at my big monitor, I'm watching the chat, I'm looking at this I have trouble reading the chat and talking and like paying attention sometimes.

I mean, you actually have to stop and say, okay, let me read the comments. Otherwise it gets very distracting.

It does. But people can contribute that way. So there are some silver linings to this way of connecting.

Yeah.

You enjoyed that first keynote that you did on Zoom?

I did, actually. It was actually really cool because it was international, so we had the US, Europe, and Asia.

Wow.

It might not have been possible for me to have that reach.

Yeah.

If everybody had flown— I think the original meeting was supposed to be in Vegas. They meet annually, a leadership team there every year, and this way they were able to include their, their Asian counterparts.

So are the people voluntary, or is it mandatory? Because there's always that question when, when you go in and do workshops, especially in schools. Is it going to be mandatory? Yeah. Or just—

and I, you know, it really depends on the client and the program. So even within one large client, I do a number within that client that are elective, you know, self-selected. People hear about it and they want to come. Often with keynotes, as you know, people people are, you know, they sign up for a leadership conference and I mean you can always walk out of anything, but usually it's just part of the program so you don't sign up for it, but this one actually, maybe because it's virtual, they actually could choose whether or not they wanted to attend, so maybe that's something interesting with virtual is people have a little more choice, but I do programs in universities and those are not active. So they're part of an EMBA 2-year curriculum. Yeah, I just developed a new one, Adaptive Leadership and Resilience, and it's part of their 2-year journey. That's been interesting, is to, is to see that when I started at, you know, in universities 5 years ago, 6 years ago, actually 7 now, um, with mindfulness, you know, that was, you know, these, these folks signed up to take finance classes and, you know, strategic thinking and planning. They did not sign up to learn how to train their mind to become quiet and more innovative, for example. Some of them were really wondering and fidgety and kind of arms crossed in the room when I walked in. And by halfway through the seminar, they loosened up and were engaged because it's very experiential. But now I don't have that resistance. I think now people, you know, it's been years, but the science and the evidence is pretty mainstream about the power of training the mind and regulating emotions and deepening our capacity for empathy and connection. So now people are pretty willing. That's what I'm finding.

And also, I mean, I'm sure the companies who hire you have a tendency towards that kind of core value system. Otherwise they wouldn't be hiring a mindfulness facilitator. So maybe the company culture is also self-selective.

You know, I— it's such a great point. So I'm not, I'm not at the companies where the people wouldn't sign up, probably. You know, they have a sense of it. You know, they're also just the ways we frame it, um, the way we talk about what we're doing. There are some— I work in the in the federal government intelligence community, and we talk there about mind fitness. So it's framed as becoming fit, helping the mind train for attention and focus and situational awareness. So if you're in that line of work, that, that's pretty important. So I think one of the things that's key is framing things so that they align with the strategy and mission of the of the organization, whether it's a nonprofit or an intelligence community. I think that really helps.

I do believe that what we call relaxation response, which is a physiological response that you can elicit from any of these practices, including yoga and tai chi, this should be part of our hygiene. When we think of hygiene, we think of brushing our teeth, taking a shower, But really we need to, like you said in the beginning, unplug ourselves, our brains, our minds, and really refresh our minds, you know? And part of that is also sleep. Sleep is like hygiene. The glymphatic system in our brain is what sweeps out all the metabolic waste. And that happens mostly during sleep. So all of this is just cleaning out just like you would floss your teeth.

I, I love that. I always love that imagery of of the cleanup that's happening while I sleep. And I feel that, I love that you're applying that metaphor to meditation or sitting in stillness or a somatic embodied exercise like martial arts or yoga.

Yeah.

In addition to that, there's the building up. So when we go to the gym, we are building up muscle. So I think it's hygiene plus strength training. That we're doing. Yeah, of our brains and really building new habituated or habitual routines for the mind so that we can have more choice in our everyday.

Yeah, but I mean, in this time when there's so much division, and even in our lives, maybe you've seen people being a little more irritated or just even more road rage or I've seen people getting pretty short. What if people say, why do I need to work on my compassion? Or, you know, for people who are divisive at this time, they're not interested in compassion. They're not interested in quieting the mind.

Well, I hear you. I mean, one thing I think all of us are interested in, no matter which side of the fence we sit on or what philosophy or football team we're cheering for, is we all wanna be happy and we all wanna move through the day with a little more ease. So the way I frame it is, you know, we all have a to-do list that's pretty long, most of us. And we can either execute those tasks and make those calls and have those meetings and develop those PowerPoints or spreadsheets, whatever it is, whatever your work is, serving on the frontline, teaching kids virtually. And we can do it with stress and focus and irritability. We're distracted, our mind's all over the place. We're getting frustrated with people. We either go through the day and do the same to-do list by spending a lot of energy and feeling depleted at the end of the day, or we can go through that same to-do list with more ease, a little more efficiency, a little more focus, a little more calm, a little more joy. Because if I'm calm and centered and in a very balanced state and I tackle a creative project or even a task I don't enjoy, like the financial operating side of my company, then I just do it with less irritation, less rah. I can always grab people there. They're always like, yeah, you're right. Yeah, that would be nice. Day to day it was easier.

And you might even get more done.

Exactly. Um, and then the other thing is that I use a metaphor of being above or below the line. So I, I start a lot of programs that way, and I just explain that with consciousness you can think of it— I'm— this is from the work of Joseph Campbell, who, you know, did the work of the hero's journey. And, and he really describes consciousness as these two states of, of being above the line. So when we're in that state, we're open to learning, we're aware, clear, open to possibility, receptive, compassionate. And when we're below the line, we're committed to our point of view, to being right, to, to— we often get defensive, we're blaming, we're attached to our point of view. And that's where the scarcity mindset happens, where we feel like we don't have enough time, enough resources, enough money, enough staff, you know, whatever it might be. So we get very contracted physically and mentally, and above the line, we're very open and expansive. And so I always start just with that metaphor, and, and everyone can relate to that. And I haven't used any—

I like that—

I haven't talked about mindfulness, I haven't talked about meditation or anything, and I And then I say, well, if it's so great above the line, then why do we go below the line? And then I describe our human biology and that we're designed for survival and we, we experience incoming texts, emails, news information as threats and we get contracted. Or if we don't have enough resources like sleep, we, we drop below the line and that's where we get irritable. That's where we get attached to our point of view and defensive. That's where we start othering. And then people start, you know, they're really like in the conversation now. Well, how do I get back up there? How do I get above the line? That's my opening for helping them see that we can train ourselves to notice where we are. It's almost like location, location, location. Am I above or below? And then we we can shift our state on demand. And they become very interested. I say, you know, it's just like being Neo in The Matrix and everything's coming at you and you learn to navigate it. So that's been, you know, the way I work with companies and corporate clients and people that think, even tough ones that say, you know, I don't need that woo-woo right now. I got a lot on my plate. And I say, I'm not bringing any woo-woo. I'm helping you. Navigate the stuff that's on your plate.

Who came up with that word woo-woo?

I don't know.

I don't know. It's so ingrained in the whole mindfulness thing. I think it was Jon Kabat-Zinn.

I'm not sure.

But I think it must have existed before him.

I don't think we should blame him for that.

I love the above the line, below the line, Dr. Arnston's work at Yale. So we talk about the top, not we as in I was not in that lab, but in the clinical field they call it top-down or bottom-up. So it's like the same kind of thing, top-down from the cognitive frontal lobe cortex, cortical mode and executive functioning mode versus bottom-up from your amygdala and your lower brain. Yeah.

That, and that maps so that I think he's describing the same thing.

Yeah.

And it maps and we can learn how to recognize the states we're in. And then the, the other thing I teach with that is that we all move between above and below all day. That, you know, just because I'm practicing mindfulness for 25 years doesn't mean that I live all day long above the line. I don't. Now I can say that because of that amount of practice and the work that I do, I spend more of my life above the line than I used to, or that I believe I would if I didn't practice mindfulness. So that's another ROI, right? That's another benefit of training the mind and being able to be a witness to the state that we're in— our thoughts, our emotions, our physiology. And that's that's really what I'm teaching is becoming a witness or becoming an observer to the state that you're in so that then you can make a decision. And sometimes I say to my clients, you know what, if you're in a team meeting and you just breezed in from a very difficult client interaction, or you're in a hospital and you go into a gathering of your colleagues and you just came from a very difficult conversation with someone, an irate family, and you're triggered and you're below the line, say it, "I'm below the line right now," and just allow it. You know, we just meet ourselves with kindness, with compassion, and sometimes that means recognizing our state and allowing it to be there. And then we can use some investigation, a little inquiry, and find out what's going on, and then meet that with kindness. So one of my— someone recently told me, and I hadn't thought about this, but they said, you really are kind of doing a train the trainer the way you work with companies. Because I— and I haven't— it was the first time I thought of it that way, but I really teach not only individual practices or what people can do for themselves, but how to take this right back to their colleagues in the hospital or their, you know, colleagues at the bank or wherever they might be. And, and that's because what's really important is that we create systems and structure, kind of what we talked about the beginning of the podcast. I think we need to share these languages and, and micropractices and mental models so that they become sustainable. So that's one of the key things I focus on as well, is that, you know, don't keep it for yourself. Go back and teach your 3 favorite ideas or phrases or practices to your teams.

Well, that's also how you integrate and actually learn it anyway, neurologically, teaching someone else, right?

You know, the best way we learn is to teach.

So I— so what do you suggest they do? Like every meeting, they give them a little bit of what I learned and let's try this with my team?

We actually, in our programs, we have part of the program focused on integration and application, and we've got some processes and tools to help them lift out the, the tools or ideas that most landed for them, that they really think, wow, this is the thing I want to, I want to go do. And I have them pace it so they don't go and think they have to teach 3 things right away, but because I want them to practice for themselves and teach and share. So we pace it over time, we create a roadmap, and then we have sustainability communities and partners and so on that is in place so that they've got that support ongoing. And then they come back together with me or another person on my team. So I love that question that you're asking because that is how we learn, by teaching. And it's really cool to hear the different ways that they do it. So when we come back in our community gatherings, I ask them, like, tell me, you know, what have you guys been doing? You know, how are you using the STOP practice? Or how are you practicing the mindful communication strategies we learned and practices?

And for those listening, can you just go through the STOP?

Oh, yeah, I sure can. So STOP is a, is a self-management tool So self— all the work we do is based on the emotional intelligence framework. So starting with self-awareness, recognizing what's going on, and then moving into self-management. So I realize that I'm triggered or I'm embarrassed or I'm overwhelmed or whatever it might be. So it starts with mindfulness helping us recognizing our state. And then once we recognize it, we can learn tools to, to do something with it, to surf the wave. So the STOP practice stands for, for stop and pause, for take a breath or 2 or 3 or 5. The O is—

or an hour—

the O stands for observe, and I add inquire, so I add some investigation in there. And then the P stands for proceed. So that, and there I teach first before you proceed, you connect in with your values on how you want to show up as a doctor or a team leader or an artist or whatever you might be doing. You connect first to who do I want to be? What's my ideal self in the situation? And then we proceed with wise action. So it's, it's just a tool to help us create a pause in every day, especially when we need it. And some people really, really like that. So when I check in with people after they've been to a class or course or program, and I ask, you know, what have you been doing? I just in fact did this last week with a large tech company. And this, this leader came on and said, we have never been so busy in my department. We, we are busier than ever in this pandemic. And for us, every day is a sprint. We're not in a marathon, we're in a sprint every day. And I think many of us feel that way. Teachers are back to school sprinting, healthcare workers. There are a lot of people that are just, you know, barely getting a breath. And so This leader said, you know what, this sprint is not going to go away. We're in month 5 of the pandemic. It's going to keep going. So I want us to institute a reset in the middle of the day. And so I taught them a practice called the 3-Breath Reset. And she brings everyone together in the middle of the day virtually because they're all over the US. They actually— we have a video. I created a lot of different assets for them and they they play one of the videos that teach about stopping and pausing and bringing attention to the body and the breath, and then kind of resetting and recentering in the middle of the day. And they've been doing that, and she said it's been so powerful because they go back to baseline. In some of these cases, in many, I think, in the pandemic, it's not even that we're building new skills, the way we normally are when we're doing meditation, mindfulness. It's almost as if we're able to stay at a resilient baseline. It's so hard right now to juggle all those things you listed in the beginning of our conversation that just pausing and breathing, resting, allowing the mind and body to settle, you know, reconnecting to what's important, being in community, which is what this leader did by bringing people people together for the midday reset is strengthening, right? That builds well-being. And, and then they go back to the sprint and they sprint all the way until the end of the day, and then they go home and then they start again. And that was her idea. I didn't suggest that framework or model or process. Um, I gave them some teaching and science and tools, and then she adapted it. So one of the things I'm loving is watching how people are adapting.

Wonderful.

In their own work environment and their own leadership style.

Mm-hmm. And of course, this could be used in a family setting too, because a family is a little corporation. Yeah. Right? It's a little company in itself.

Thank you so much for listening to part 1. Part 2 is coming up where Laurie and I continue the conversation about mindfulness, and practices at home, schools, and in our lives. Laurie talks to us about how deep personal losses led her to seek ways to alleviate suffering and build resilience. If you have any questions for my guests or myself, or suggestions for future guests and topics, email me at podcast@mindbodyspace.com. Subject line: Listener question.

Thank you again.

This is Dr. Juna Bobby MD wishing you and your loved ones wellness.