Quiet the Mind and Your Soul Will Speak Interview with Shari Gordon

You know, I think everything just compiled and combusted. I, I was just— everything was kind of very strict in a way, and then all of a sudden there were no guidelines and no adults at all. So there were times when I just didn't have a car because it wouldn't work, so I would swim to work. I would like put my clothes, I would tie them in a plastic bag over my head and just swim under the bridge and, you know, go to work and just work in my bathing suit, maybe throw a shirt on, maybe not.

From Mind Body Space, this is RxChill Pill, a podcast about staying well and boosting resilience with science-backed skills, which we need now more than ever before. I'm your host, Dr. Juna Bobby MD, a physician specializing in lifestyle medicine and a mom of two amazing kids. Listen to interviews with experts as well as with extraordinary people who share their stories of amazing resilience. There are also short segments where I share science-backed antidotes to stress as well as short meditations that you can do anywhere, anytime, just with a pair of earphones. Today I'm interviewing Sheri Gordon, an entrepreneur and super mom. She has a most beautiful spirit and I know you're gonna pull a lot of resilience from her. She's taken all the challenges and ups and downs of her life and come out the other side as someone who wants to help others heal through massage and spiritual healing. But she also is so curious about all of the science that are behind these alternative healing methods. Shari is a true gem looking to heal others with her love and compassion. I am so inspired by her and I know you're gonna be too. Hi, Shari Gordon. Thank you so much for being here.

Hi, Juna Bobby MD. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, it's so great to see you.

You too.

Shari has one of the most amazing stories. I mean, like, I just finally met you after so many years of going to your spa. I guess you took ownership of it recently, the Addison Spa?

2017. I had worked there for ever since 2008.

Uh-huh.

And then when the owner wanted to retire, I bought it and took it over.

Wow. And you're young, right? For an entrepreneur.

I think I just look young. I mean, I'm almost 40.

You look like a baby. You really look like a baby. Okay, so you took it over in 2017?

Mm-hmm.

And you were working there?

As a massage therapist for all those years.

So you worked there part-time or full-time?

Part-time, because I was very much— yeah, 3 kids, 14, 11, and 6, all boys. And, you know, my husband worked full-time as a chef, so I definitely was running out of there at 2:30 every single day to do my momhood.

I know what that's like. Uh-huh.

Now I work much more as the owner. Everything just fell into place so that I can really work as much as I want to. And I kind of want to be working there a lot right now because it's very much my passion. I'm very, very driven.

You decided when she was going to sell, did you just say, this is it for me? How did you know that you wanted to own this business that you've been working at?

Oh, it's like such a miracle story. I, I knew— well, you're a miracle story, which we'll get to, but I knew that I wanted I wanted to do more in the field because healing is, you know, there's an element of healing in massage and I just absolutely fell in love with it. I love what I feel with my hands. I love the energy that I pick up. So I knew I wanted to do more than just be like a part-time worker for someone. I wanted to really create something that was a little more expressive and a little more my own. So I was keeping in mind all the different things that I could do. Sometimes I would look at spaces or I would draw up plans. I attempted a few things, but they kind of fell flat.

What were those things that fell flat?

I attempted working out of a chiropractor's office where I was having my own business out of a room, but it just wasn't right. I looked at—

Oh, so you really wanted your own space.—

I wanted my own space more for my own expression. You know, when you work for someone else, even though it was beautiful, it wasn't mine with my flair, my flavor, and I wanted to be able to do that. I still want to do that more than I am doing it.

I totally get it because you notice the name of my company is Mind Body Space. Yes! So I think space is, like you said, such an expression of yourself and it also it affects you mentally and physically. You're like a creative person, so you wanted something that felt like you.

Yes, and I wanted to be able to create. Mm-hmm. So, um—

What did you do all those years with the kids? Was that enough creativity with having babies?

It was a learning period for me because I was in one frame of mind when I first had my son. And, you know, getting pregnant with my oldest was a shocker. I wasn't married.

Oh, whoa.

I did not know that I was going to be living in New York. I still had like my captain's license. And thought I was a fisherman. So I did not know I was staying here until I, you know, got pregnant and I was, you know, with my husband and we were living together, but we weren't married and we had not mapped out our lives. So it was a big shocker and I was very much in one frame of mind when I first had kids. And then while they were little, it was very much me learning about myself. I think that happens to a lot of moms when their kids are little. They just are growing because your kids bring out so much in you. And I took that time to work part-time but also just read and read and learn about myself. And, um, you know, it turned into me opening up a whole separate meditation space, and that really stemmed from all the educating that I did when my kids were little.

Oh, so you started learning about meditation when you were full-time mom.

Yes.

That experience. So how did you learn about that?

Well, I don't want to say that's when I started learning about it, but that's when I started reading about it.

Okay.

Because the way I grew up in the Florida Keys, that was my actual real-life training because I had this kind of very unusual, very unconventional you know, slightly offsetting family life. The thing was, I was in the Florida Keys in this beautiful, beautiful healing environment with the ocean right outside my bedroom window, and I didn't go to school or anything, so I just spent all this time in and around the ocean. So even though I had these big stressors that we all have, the ocean and that paradisiac environment taught me how to be meditative.

So nature, just being in nature.

Nature.

So, um, when we talk about the growing up in that environment, so you said— I, I remember when we had our first conversation, it started because we were talking about me going to medical school and stuff, and you came out and said, it's funny because I'm totally opposite of that. I didn't go to any school. So were you homeschooled?

Not really, no.

So there was no structural—

no structure whatsoever.

And you're just brilliant.

I mean, I just always wanted to learn. I've always been curious. I've always been, um, seeking, and You know, that's very much where resilience comes into play because I think that's the most prominent aspect of resilience I have is that I am just always seeking, I'm always asking questions, I'm always digging deeper. So that kind of saved me even though I didn't have formal education. I still asked the questions and I only had myself to get those answers from. Actually.

Wow.

So it—

and you had— let's talk about that. You had, um, siblings and you had parents.

A brother and a sister, and I have my mom and my dad.

Okay.

And, um, the thing is, it was a very loving family, and it was definitely a loving start. And I think my parents were very, very well-intended. Um, they were— my dad was just like this '70s rocker from Columbus, Ohio, and Everybody loved him. Very charismatic. When I was very little, there were always people in and out of the house to play with him. He played guitar. My mom was young and she loved my dad. They had these 3 kids, but my dad was definitely an addict.

Where was she from?

Columbus, Ohio, also. Oh, okay.

So your dad was an addict.

Huge addict. I don't think he's beat it to this day.

What was he addicted to?

Mostly alcohol. You know, pain pills. I think those are the two big ones. But just, you know, he has that addict personality. It's always—

like kind of rock and roll.

Yeah.

Hippie. Well, no, I don't want to say hippie.

Less hippie. I'm more hippie.

Sorry.

I was asking—

it depends how you define hippie, right? Right.

They were more like that '70s rocker, like, I don't know, drink hard.

Okay.

I was the hippie and I kind of didn't fit in. I'm more like peace, love, and happiness. And that wasn't so much— they were a little more rebellious than me.

But they were loving to you?

They absolutely were loving. I have come to learn that people can only love you as much as they are capable. And so I think they loved me as much as they were capable of loving me, but they were very restricted because of things like addiction and fear.

What were they afraid of? There's—

I think it's very common in society to just be afraid of everything, to just have your inner state be coming from fear. So it affected their life, it affected the decisions that they make. Like, they very much were victims. They felt like they were victims and they were afraid, so they were always running. Like, we were I must have lived in 15 houses when I was growing up because I was always running from one house to the next, from one thing to the next.

But in the Florida Keys by the ocean?

Yeah, so we had a few houses in the Keys definitely, but when I was very little it was in Ohio and we probably had 8, 9 houses and sometimes we would just leave in the middle of the night. Wow. And, you know, stay with another family until we would have another place.

Oh my gosh.

And it was all, you know, there was always a reason for it, but as I've explored it in my old age, I recognize that it was just their inner state is full of fear, and, um, you know, that just means every decision that you make is coming from that place. Mm-hmm. So it looked very chaotic, even though I think they meant to be loving and be safe and be supportive.

Uh-huh. But it's hard when you're not addicted.

They weren't that capable. Yeah.

Was your mom also—

She wasn't addicted at all.

No?

Okay. But she definitely— she, I want to say, suffered from depression and chronic pain. You know, I remember her being— just laid up in bed a lot. Mm-hmm. And a lot of the women that I was raised with actually were in a lot of chronic pain and suffered from depression, and it was just from the frame of mind that they were in and that we were surrounded with.

So, wow, so you're saying a lot of women, so you were in a group? Of a community?

So I was raised in— I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. Uh-huh. So you really try to stay in that community of being a Jehovah's Witness. You don't really want to associate with people outside of it because bad associations spoil useful habits. So yeah, when I was growing up, I was only exposed to other Jehovah's Witnesses, and they are loving. It's a love-based religion, but as a lot of religions tend to do, I think there's also a lot of— there's a lot of fear-based beliefs there.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, especially—

did your parents Did they grow up in that or they were recruited?

No, no. Yeah. Okay. When I was about 5 years old and my father was really, you know, drinking and partying and my mom had 3 small children and there wasn't a lot of money and she was kind of desperate and then they just came knocking on the door and my mom, you know, just ate it up because here's these people that are coming and sitting with her and teaching her about, you know, God is love and look, we can help you. So she— it gave her something to hold on to, and it gave my father a way to sober up.

Oh, wow.

You know, and he did for quite a few years, probably I would say from from 5 to maybe 9, he stayed sober. Okay.

So that's against the religion to drink?

You can drink. It really needs to be in balance. Over-drinking is, you know, anything to an excess, definitely not okay, but you could have a drink every once in a while. There was rarely alcohol around, though. My dad really did sober up because You know, the structure of the religion, I think it helped him, and I think they used that as a tool to get themselves kind of organized and on track. And my family life did reflect that for a few years, but it just didn't last.

Oh, okay. The addiction came back, or—

The addiction came back, and You know, I think their core inner states never shifted out of their, um, what are the words I'm looking— honestly, just their, their fear-based mentality that was never corrected. So they just fell right back into the old patterns and behaviors.

But you're a kid growing up in this. How did you manage?

When I was very young, it was really hard. I remember being very stressed out at around ages 7, 8, 9, because I was noticing the difference in how I wanted to be. Like, I'm just naturally very happy, and my heart is very loud and very open and it doesn't leave me alone and it doesn't want to close. And in that type of environment, it's very much about keeping secrets, keeping to yourself, you know, behave, be quiet, maybe don't be seen, just like, and naturally that was not, that didn't feel good to me. So I struggled with it until We moved to the Florida Keys, and I was really submersed in, in the beauty of that environment. And it's just such an open place to begin with that it helped me really come to terms with who I wanted to be and, and the parts of myself that I wanted to explore and enhance and, and make those decisions.

So how old were you when you moved down there?

I was like 11.

Uh-huh. And so when you were down there, so when you didn't go to school, you would be home with your brother, sister?

Brother. Home with my brother and sister.

And are they younger or?

By 13— no, sorry, 18 months. So my sister's 18 months younger than me. My brother's 18 months younger than her. We were So you're the oldest though? I'm the oldest.

Okay. And so you took care of them, kind of? So you'd be home together, alone? What did you guys do?

We would be, we would be home, um, but we were raised in the religion. Like, honestly, we would go to meetings a lot, and, and there's kind of a lot of them, and then you go out in service. So my— I was raised in this religion and I believed it wholeheartedly. Like, all I wanted to do was be good and be good in that religion. Because again, everything that they teach you in all these meetings that you go to is you obey, you obey the Bible, you obey God's word. And they do flood you with, with their literature, magazines that come out every other week. Um, you're always studying. So my time, I literally— so So in my free time, I actually, I had a lot of it and I had a lot of downtime and I read as much as I possibly could. I loved reading. I still love reading. But yeah, I did have a lot of free time. I fished. I was always trying to work, you know, by 14 I think I got a job in a flower shop and then from that point on I was just always taking taking whatever job that I could, and that was how I educated myself. I taught myself about people. I taught myself about relationships and interactions just by working.

So you were just really curious all the time?

Always.

And you felt kind of stifled because you were so curious about the world and you wanted to go out there?

I, I did feel stifled because, um, I think— I feel like I was raised to kind of stay quiet and stay down and, you know, not ruffle any feathers. And I really wanted to know— And you wanted to ruffle some feathers? Well, my questions ruffled some feathers.

Oh, what were they?

Big life existential questions that, you know, they weren't being answered by the situation that I was in, so I really had to turn inwards and explore to explore and turn outwards and explore to answer those big questions.

So give me an example.

Um, okay, the existence of Satan. How, how did that happen? Like, are you kidding me? Is, is there really good and evil? And, you know, these people that were once innocent babies, um, that you love so much, do they really just turn bad? And what is the reality behind that? It's a very big question, and I feel like I have answered it through all the exploring that I've done, but I've had that question since I was 5, and it was big, and it weighed on my mind. And I would always—

Wow, what were you told? That if just people would turn into Satan?

No, no, no, but you know, let's say if in Christianity they teach you that there's God and there's Satan, and Satan is the root of all evil, and there are people that are, you know, not God-like, and they are evil.

Well, there is some evil in the world, but there is evil. Okay.

However, I wanted to understand how that happens.

Oh, why does somebody just turn from like a baby into—

right—

who they are?

Right, because in the religion that I was raised in, you— if you are not in it any longer, you are disfellowshipped or disassociated, and you lose a loved person. So someone that you were associating with 5 months ago and having fun with and loving, all of a sudden you have zero contact with because they've turned bad, because they are, you know, sinning. And I just wanted to understand how that happens because your heart it pulls for them and it hurts for them, and you don't want that separation.

Oh, so you're saying like if they left the religion, then they were, um, deemed evil? Yeah, basically. Oh, okay. So I, I could see why that would be puzzling, right?

Yes, just the good and bad in the world was my question. What is up with the bad? Why isn't everybody good?

Okay, so you were basically questioning what they were telling you. Yes. Okay.

I was questioning—

It wasn't making sense to you.

Right. And I was questioning even the Bible, you know, because I just had questions. There's a lot of information there, but I had my own personal questions that I needed to make sense of for my own life.

Mm-hmm.

And I have very much actually kind of answered that question in that I believe that we have the potential to be very healthy, and at our core, everyone has love. I think that evil comes in the layers of hurt and pain and untruth those that we layer on top of that love, and then you get someone who very much looks evil and they do things out of that pain that we then call evil. And I needed to go ask those questions and go through that process to make sense out of this life.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So in my free time, yeah, I I was thinking about things like that.

Wow, that's pretty deep for an 11-year-old or a 14-year-old, or even 5. And who did you talk to?

Well, I was always—

I would ask these things.

I would ask the elders in the religion, and I would ask, you know, the, the women. And I— they would try to answer me, but it didn't— the answers were not enough.

They weren't satisfactory. And so you didn't go to school, didn't Do all the kids, um, they don't go to school? None of the kids?

No, not at all. A lot of, uh, they definitely do.

Um, so they do go to regular school? Yes, but you didn't?

I didn't. Why? And honestly, no one I knew really did.

Oh, so in that particular little community you were in?

Yeah, even when I was in Ohio, everybody I knew, and I would, there were quite a few of them, they they were homeschooled because, um, you know, it's, it's a way to protect your children from outside influences. So it's not across the board, but it was definitely my reality.

And so it wasn't mandated?

Not at all.

It was just up to each family?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, um, so you're home, your parents don't take you to school. Do Do the authorities say anything about that?

It just happened to not with us. I don't know. We went through all those years. No one knew we were there. No one ever came for us. And I didn't ever submit anything. When my brother and sister and I got older, when I had my first son, I didn't know what to do for work, and massage therapy kind of hit me over the head like a hammer. And I needed a GED for that, so I ran down to Yonkers and took my GED.

Wow.

That was that. My brother and my sister did the same and then ended up going to college after that.

Mm-hmm. Did you ever wonder why you weren't going to school and other kids were?

Well, I knew why. I, you know, I think my parents naturally were always rebelling against the man or the system, or like they were just not fans of society or, you know, people. Okay. So, you know, I think they were trying to protect us and not expose us.

And you were— you told me this incredible story of when you were in the Keys, how it all kind of ended and You were on your own after that at age 15?

Yeah, yeah. So what happened is, you know, I think everything just compiled and combusted. I, I was just, everything was kind of very strict in a way. And then all of a sudden there were no guidelines and no adults at all. So my, My mom— my dad fell into a deep addiction again, and, you know, to the point that he was serving jail time. And my mom just, you know, she just left. She just went to her parents to try to find her own stability. So it was me and my sister. And then eventually my brother, also just totally on our own, and I just found a way to work. I mean, I took a job in a pizza place one island over on Summerland Key, and there were times when I just didn't have a car because it wouldn't work, so I would swim to work. I would like put my clothes, I would tie them in a plastic bag over my head and just swim under the bridge and go to work and just work in my bathing suit, maybe throw a shirt on, maybe not.

How far was that?

It was not— it wasn't far, but I was— so let's say that bridge is probably— is it 70 feet wide? I don't know, but it's scary.

And so you just swam to work?

Yeah. That's crazy. I just found a way for sure. That was 15 years ago. I didn't even have a car yet.

And did they— so they just disappeared, or your father ended up in jail and—

Yeah, so I— there was no keeping track of them, and there were just chunks of time where, no, I didn't know.

You don't remember, right, because it was so crazy?

Yeah.

Maybe just chaotic at the time?

Yes, absolute chaos. I did stay in the religion. I stayed in it until I was probably 19, even though my parents weren't in any way, shape, or form, you know, there or present to—

Physically.

You know, I worked, but there were times of being hungry and there were times of— but every day I somehow was taken care of. And, you know, there was a time when I was 20 and I had custody of my little brother, and I remember we had this giant jar of oatmeal that was our meal. I don't know how this jar of oatmeal lasted as long as it did, but I feel like we lived off of it for like a year.

Do you like oatmeal now?

I do. I still love oatmeal. There was a point where my parent, my mom came back and my dad was possibly trying to sober up, but what happened then is this insanity of them— they actually decided they didn't want to be in the religion anymore, and they threw me out of the house because I was choosing to stay in it. So it was a complete reversal. So by probably early 17, they, they threw me out, and, um, they were like, if you continue to see these people, then don't come home here. So I drove, I put my things in my car, and I drove to someone in the religion's home who let me, um, you know, stay with her until I, I found a place. And, and then 2 years later, I got custody of my little brother.

And so do you think that you went back, you know, to the religion because at one point you had lost your mom and dad and you kind of relied on them. Were they there for you at that time? The religion?

Oh yeah.

So who took care of you?

Well, belief systems run deep and they tell you this is the one and true religion and if you are not in it, you are dying an eternal death and if you are in it, you will be saved and even if you die, you will be resurrected onto a paradise earth.

And also they were physically there for you, I assume, because you were in that community.

They were physically there for me. That's who I would go to for help, and I did go to them for help, and they, they did advise me. Um, it's just by the time I was like 19, those answers, they weren't answering my deep questions.

Yeah.

And went for that. Yeah. And I, I couldn't ignore the separatist of it and the fact that my heart just wants to connect. I just, I couldn't stay with all kinds of people, you mean, not just— yes, right. I mean, it really came down to the fact that it is isolating, and I just could not make sense of the fact that only we are the only chosen ones that are going to live. And even if you're a good person but not in this religion, you're going to die an eternal death. Like, I could not— my heart just started opening so much that I could not be at peace with that. So I knew I just had to leave, and that was so painful. And it took many years to really unravel those belief systems out of— when I first did it, I just thought I was bad. I just thought, well, I guess I'm choosing my heart over my head, and I'm just bad, but you know, what else can I do? You know, after even having my oldest son, I really kind of suffered through like, what am I doing here? Do I need to go back to the religion so that he's saved? And it just never felt right.

So it came back to you a little bit, like in your thoughts when you had your first son?

It never fully left. Yeah.

Okay.

Definitely gone now, but it took many years to unravel those belief systems.

But you knew you had to do it somehow. Was somebody helping you, or was it just you realizing that just, this is no good for me? Yeah, that takes a lot of courage.

Yeah.

And how did you muster up all that courage? Was it just like, you don't have a choice?

So, because the option was for me to go back to the religion, which I played around with. I would go, but what happened when I was there was I felt like my heart was closing. I felt judgment. It did not feel good, and I, I just had to explore the fact that, um, I had to learn what love in its bigness actually is compared to the love that they say exists with all of this separatism.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And I had to really learn in myself the difference between those feelings, and I had to choose the great big love that, you know, includes everyone.

And this is also because you started meeting people outside, right? When you were working and stuff?

Yes.

So you made new friends?

That's exactly what it was. I was working in Key West at 18, 19, and, you know, it's mostly a gay population, and, you know, you cannot be gay as a Jehovah's Witness. So I was taught, you know, they were bad. You can be nice to them, you can work with them, but you close yourself off to them and you do not associate with them. The problem is, when I was with them in my work environment, I was feeling my heart and I'm like, oh my gosh, this feels good. This feels like love. This feels like happiness. This feels accepting. This feels like maybe I want to choose this feeling over the, the judgmental clothing.

Okay, so the gay community helped you kind of come out.

Absolutely, it did. Thank goodness.

So after that, how did you meet your husband? So you came to Manhattan because somebody subletted to you.

I waited tables because I have no education and I'm traveling, so waiting tables was a great way for me to live and survive. The, the second restaurant that I applied to, my husband was a sous chef there, and we didn't speak for a good— the first 6 months that I was there because he was just absolutely terrifying. Like, like, you want to avoid the chefs at all costs.

Oh yeah, I know, I know. I've been a waitress. I, I have run into chefs. You just—

you don't want to be in their, in their space.

It's, it's crazy. Yeah, that's such high pressure.

And then finally when my lease was coming up and I put in my 2-week notice because I was on to travel other places, he came up to me and was like, "Hey, you put in your 2-week notice and I never got to meet you or talk to you." Oh, how long had you been there at that point? Probably almost 6 months. Oh wow. It was really only the last 2 weeks that I put in my 2-week notice that we we had any contact, but we hung out one night, and then I think we spent that whole 2 weeks together.

Wow.

And I left because, you know, you left? Yeah, my lease was up.

But had you been like— had you been secretly like admiring him the whole time, or you just didn't notice?

Towards the end, uh-huh. I'm mostly professionally because, um, he was really good, and every— there was buzz about him, and everybody was talking to him. And also all the girls were talking about him. Like all the other girls liked him. Yeah, my eyes were opening definitely towards the end and I was trying to keep it very unserious with my husband as well.

Because you thought you were gonna move on?

I was gonna move on. I was gonna travel.

You were kind of like a bohemian.

Yes, I had zero intention of getting married. I had a map with all of these pins in it and I was trying to figure out where I was gonna go next, and I was decided on Flagstaff, Arizona.

And how would you pick these places?

I just— what did I— where did I feel like going? I don't know. But I did really have a crush on my husband, and I have an uncle who lives in Manhattan. He's a professor at Marymount Manhattan, and right— I want to say days before I was leaving for Arizona, my uncle called me and said, "I could use a roommate. Do you want to come back to New York City and explore it a little bit more?" And that felt really right to me, so I came back to New York, and then my uncle met, um, his current husband at the same time, so we both started dating, and then I left my husband again because it started getting serious, and I was kind of like What is happening here? One of two things happen. Either he, you know, breaks my heart and I move on, or we end up happily together.

So kind of the fear came up?

Yeah, kind of like, I'm like, am I gonna— what's gonna happen with us? Are we going to be together? Like, he wants kids, and like, that's insanity.

Why did you think that was insanity?

Because I didn't feel in any way, shape, or form ready or stable. So at this point I was 22, 23. I still had no education. I still, you know, how do I make a living in New York? It was lobster season in the Keys, so I went back down to the Keys and I made a bunch of money diving for lobsters.

You dive for lobsters?

Yes. So instead of doing crab traps—

you have a lot of, um, excellent hobbies. You're very Talented.

That's how I ended up making, you know, my living in the Keys, with a lot of fishing, collecting, um, collecting tropicals, and unfortunately spearfishing. Oh wow. Which I always hated, but I just, I don't know.

But you would sell the fish on the market?

Like, yes, on my island.

Can you still do that? I don't know.

The company that I used to sell to. It was called E-Fish, and it was this giant warehouse of a building right on the water on my island.

So you would just go fishing and then bring it to them? Yeah, that— and they pay you?

Like, you go out in your boat and you come in, you pull into their dock, unload your stuff, they give you a check, and then you get back on your boat and you go home. Wow.

Wow.

So I did that, and I, I— my next thing that I was doing was going to Costa Rica because property was very cheap in Costa Rica. And I—

so that was your plan?

That was my plan.

Uh-huh.

I had a ticket to Costa Rica in one hand, and when lobster season was done, that's where I was going.

So if I dropped you off in Maine, you could like get some lobsters?

Maine's different than the Keys. That water's different. Lobsters are different. This The Northeast water is very different than the beautiful, warm, clear, shallow water of the Keys.

Where you can find— and I'm picturing like a Little Mermaid scene. Like, are you wearing diving gear or are you just free diving?

I used a hookah rig. No, I wasn't wearing diving gear. I used a hookah rig.

What's that?

So you have a motor on the boat filled with gas, right? And it's just got a hose that supplies oxygen through a mask, and that was all that I had.

Oh my gosh.

So I would go, I would put this mask on, I would dive down, I would have a weight belt to get me, say, 30 feet down.

Whoa.

Well, 15, 30 feet down, and then you would collect your lobsters, you would come up. But the thing is, when the gas runs out on that hookah rig, you have no air.

Oh my gosh.

So it's like you take in your last breath, and if you feel a struggle there, you have to get back up to the surface. That was it. That was your last breath.

Oh my goodness. Who taught you how to do this?

The Jehovah's Witness fishermen that I worked with. You know, that's what everyone made a living doing.

Oh, wow. Costa Rica.

I had that ticket in my hand, and that was I just, I thought I needed to do that, but then I also had my return ticket to New York and I had a job waiting for me and I still had a place to live. My husband, who was my boyfriend, he kind of had a panic attack and he called me and he was just like, you know, "Please come back, I'm having a panic attack." And I just got on the—

Because he was missing you, you mean?

Yeah. And I just got on the plane to New York. Maybe 9 months later I got pregnant. And right before I got pregnant, actually, and when I had to tell him I was pregnant, I said, "I have to tell you something." And he was like, "Oh my God, I can't take it. If you're gonna go, like, just go." And I'm like, "Except that's not it this time. This time it's I'm pregnant." Oh wow.

So he always thought that you had this wanderlust.

To this day.

To this day. To this day. Okay. So you might take off together, hopefully.

I still do, yes.

Oh, you go on vacations and—

Not vacations. Exploring? Yeah, you know, marriage is this very strange concept, and when you're growing, it requires you to rip out of everything that you knew before, and you're your marriage needs to evolve with that. So yeah, it's always shifting and changing, and I'm always feeling the pull up and out of that. And, um, feeling the pull to explore, you mean expand, grow, um, explore, and just be a bigger and better and wiser person. He's definitely come to terms with my process more. So, you know, you feel growth. Growth is like the shedding of skin, so that's not always comfortable.

What is different for you? Like, when you're talking about growth in a relationship, for me it's like, okay, let's find new things together.

Yeah, fine. No, it wasn't together because a whole other part of my story is that he, he's a chef and he You know, chefs have a hard job. It's long hours and long days, and his drive was not healthy. In his career, he just started spiraling downward, and depression and pain completely consumed him, and he started shutting down and staying small and getting so sick, getting so physically sick.

Mm.

I was just trying to be like a supportive wife and mom, for a long time until I realized he is so sick and he's not gonna come out of it. Like, he's not realizing that he needs some nourishment and some nurturing and he needs to make some changes. And, you know, even if it was extreme, like switching careers or jobs or whatever he needed to do, he was not doing it. He was just gonna plow through in pain until the day that he died, and he was miserable. I just started really taking on myself the responsibility that I think he's actually going to die because he was so physically sick. Oh, wow. And so I was like, how am I going to support my kids? So my gears shifted.

Back to that survival mode.

Back to survival mode. And my husband was okay with separating. He just, he thought I was bad. I thought he was bad. That's how it goes, right? In separation a lot of the time. We ended up in trying to be healthy for our kids.

Mm-hmm.

You know, when I was really, really leaving him, something happened and he decided he wanted me back. And in getting me back, he realized he had to do whatever he had to do. And what that involved was him cracking wide open and all of a sudden he was willing to get help, so he went to a psychotherapist and he just really— he started listening to Eckhart Tolle and Brené Brown and he found his way to health and he made the changes necessary. And, you know, even though his mind and his soul was reflecting this, his body still wasn't. So as of last February, when he was in, I think, the hospital for the week or something like that. I had taken my boys skiing and he was in the hospital the whole week. And I came back from skiing and I'm like, like, you need to be aware of the fact that you're gonna die and you're gonna leave 3 kids behind without a dad. Like, I just want you to be aware that that's what's happening here. And I don't want you to, you know, like, if you just didn't know that.

And it was just from the stress?

Like grinding for show? It was from his unhappiness.

It wasn't even Was it like dietary and sleep and all those things?

That was a part of it. You know, not one job in particular. It's just the fact that he needed to really nourish himself.

Well, it sounds like burnout.

And take a break. Total, complete burnout.

I mean, chefs—

That February he put in his 6-month notice.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, but he had been in the hospital so many times. He had had cancer. He had had severe pneumonia that was just so dangerous, like, oh wow, health problem after health problem. So, and even just putting in that notice, he started getting better day by day, just paying attention to himself more and having more time for himself. And then as of August, he's a stay-at-home dad.

Wow.

Which he absolutely loves.

And you guys are still together?

Yeah. Yes, definitely parenting as a family together, and we have really found a healthy place to exist, but we're kind of not putting labels on anything because, um, in the past that, that really restricted us, and we're in this place where he's trying to find his health and his happiness. We are supportive, very together on making decisions for the boys, and I am just like so happy that he is finding his health.

Yeah. And are you guys going, um, did you seek therapy together?

And like, yeah, for like, it was 2 or 3 times. Wasn't a huge fan of that.

Like, not a huge fan of talk therapy?

Oh no, I love talk therapy and I love psychotherapy and I love the psychotherapist that we were seeing. She's actually like famous now.

Oh, who is it?

Um, Tori Leto.

I don't— how do you spell her name?

Tori, T-O-R-Y, Eletto, E-L-E-T-T-O. But she's on Instagram now. She has like 60,000 followers just from doing these. And you loved her though? I loved her.

Oh, good.

Okay. It's just— and I had taken my son to her for his social anxiety, and then I sent my husband to her. But when we went together as a couple, I think I just felt like she was taking his side, and I think that happens a lot in couples therapy because I think one person might need more of the focus. And, um, that's interesting.

I, I felt like that when we took dance lessons for our wedding.

He was favored.

I was like, at brought us there. Um, yes, exactly. And they were telling me I was leading too much.

Yeah. And he's—

which I probably was. We were— no, we were kind of struggling. But I'm sorry. So, um, yeah, I— thanks for sharing that because I think that can happen with therapists.

I think one of my friends told me the same kind of thing where they were— I wouldn't recommend it.

In fact, they went to see a couple because there was a husband and wife team that could relate to both of them.

Yeah. So maybe they would get equal attention. Yes.

I think that's what happened.

Mm-hmm.

That's so interesting. Yeah.

So you're, you said, um, well, I wasn't a fan of it, but he loved it. He absolutely loved it.

Of course. And, and, but you loved her as like on one-on-one. I was just not as a couple. Like it wasn't helping you as much as a couple.

Yeah. It was, it was —such an intense situation that I don't know that she could take care of both of our needs. Because my husband—

Does she know about your past?

About how you were abandoned?

No, she didn't know anything about me. I mean, I just can't imagine that that didn't come into play with all of this. I mean, having been abandoned in such a deep way as you were, I mean, even though you did have parents, you were basically on your own. Yeah. And then with your husband, realizing that this person is not necessarily going to be there for you physically.

Yes. They could die on you. That's another feeling of abandonment. Exactly. And I felt that full force.

And you have the same thing with your kids you have to take care of, like you had with your younger brother and sister. So it's like a kind of a repetitive traumatic trigger.

Yes. But do you want to hear the miracle part of that story? What? Yes, of course. So that's exactly where I was when I— my husband was trying to repair us and he said— and I was not happy about that at all— and he said, "Hey, go visit your friend in Italy. She's in Verona, Italy. Spend some time with her." And I'm like, "That's absurd. It costs money and who's gonna watch the kids?" He was like, "I feel like you should do it." And I don't know what his drive behind this was. So I was like, "You know what? If I can do this trip for like— if I can find a flight for let's say $850, then I'll do it because that seems like I can afford that." So he goes online and he finds a round-trip British Airlines flight that went flew directly into Verona. Now apparently that's unheard of. British Airways doesn't usually fly into Verona. So I found that flight for $530, and I go see my friend, and she lives, you know, off of a vineyard in Verona. And my very first morning there, she wakes me up and she's like, "Look at this mountain behind us. There's a church on top of that, and we're going to— you can only get there by walking, and we're going to walk up there and go to this church. So halfway up this beautiful trail, um, is like a statue. I don't know what they're called. I'm not Catholic, so I don't know. But, um, there was a saint, Saint Brida, inside of this concrete, this thing. And my friend said she is the Saint of the Impossible, so say, set an intent with her, tell her what you want. So I was there and I'm like, am I praying for relationship help? Am I praying to be with someone? And I was like, no, that's not it. I want independence. I want I want my own place. I want to fully be myself and I want to fully be able to take care of myself. Mm. So throughout that 3-day trip, over and over and over, because Verona has, you know, just so many beautiful shrines and everything, I just kept setting that intention. Mm-hmm. And literally, when my plane landed back in New York, um, the owner of Addison Street Spa the spa said, said, um, hey Sherry, I was selling this spa to someone else and it totally fell through. Um, do you want it? Wow. And I said, I said yes, but you know, previously I would have had money saved up, but I'm in a different place now and I don't know if I have my husband's full support here. So she was like, no problem, I'll give it I'll sell it to you for this amount. You can take the loan directly from me, no interest, pay it over 5 years. Wow. Done. 3 weeks later it was mine. Wow. And now I totally support my whole family.

Congratulations, that's amazing. So— That's amazing. Right, the miracle. And so she knew that you would have wanted it? She knew that you were looking around?

Yeah, I mean, she knew that eventually I wanted to do something. Uh-huh.

Yourself. That's incredible. It is. You were wishing for that and it just came up, and it came to me in the right way at the right time. Amazing. But also, you opened another studio next door now, which is what I noticed, um, that's when I found out that it had switched hands, when you opened Sacred. So Sacred, you opened as a space for meditation, everything meditative.

Everything that takes you inside yourself so that you can find your own wisdom, because that is, you know, just the key to my entire life, is that I've had to go inside myself for my answers. I really, um, I didn't get them from you know, my out— my— from outside of myself. I'm not saying—

well, you had guides, like you would read books, and— but it, it had to feel right to you. Yes.

Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. Yeah. So, and there's ways that you do that, and meditation— how you do that, it's really meditation. And, and there's a bunch of ways to get into that meditative state, and I think those ways are important because it's really hard to just sit there in your pain and your loneliness and your confusion. It's hard to just sit there with yourself. If you're a very experienced— yeah, maybe you can get into that meditative state in a heartbeat and maybe you live your whole life from that state. But if you're not—

But for us mere mortals with kids and families and student loans—

Yes, living in New York. You get pulled out of that. Yes. So like all it's, you know, we have things there that just help you get there and help you shift your inner state because sometimes, um, you know, something like sound or, you know, just certain teachers can just really help shift you from your state of being into one that you just I desire more.

So different teachers in different times also. Yes, yes, yes.

What is good for you at the moment, and what is good for one person is not good for another.

No. So, and what's good for you in one minute is not— like you said, when you're wallowing in that state of confusion or loneliness or, or anger, it's a different state that you're in. Yeah. You might need a different teacher. Yeah. Or I'd like to say guide also.

And you know how find those teachers and those guides is by going inside and feeling for who is good for you. Because there's so much available to us, like which psychotherapist do I need, which massage therapist do I need, which, um, you know, whatever it may be. I always will just— I'll say like a prayer slash intent slash, you know, meditative moment, I'll just say, "Who do I need right now? Who can help me the most right now?" Wow. And then I always find that pretty quickly that person will come into my life, whether I drive by and see a billboard for something, like a website, and then that's exactly the website that I need.

It's like you have your attention open to what you are looking for.

Yes, to what can help you. It's almost like you're drawn. You're just like, "Point out to me," because your body has innate wisdom. It has such intelligence about its own health. It will guide you.

Instinct is all the memories that you have from your experience. That's instinct. When you are with somebody, let's say a therapist or a massage therapist even, and you don't feel right, immediately leave. That's what I said. Or a doctor. Yeah, if a doctor makes you feel like you're not comfortable or you're not being taken care of— yes, even if they might be the most prized and decorated and renowned person. Correct. Amazing, amazing, Shari. This has been such an amazing interview, and I just want to say I want to ask you something, and this is funny that you were saying when you're open to people. I was shopping with my daughter at Bloomingdale's, and the saleslady was amazing. She was talking about her own daughter and how her daughter doesn't let her shop for her, but she loves dressing, you know, her kids and everything. And she was just such a warm, beautiful person. We just ended up being friends. Yes, over just that little bit of time. Those connections. Yeah. And so then, of course, at the end she tells me, you know, she teaches resilience to at-risk kids in the city. That's also something she does in addition to being a salesperson at Bloomingdale's. That is amazing. And a mom of a teenager. So she asked me this question, and I've been pondering this a lot, and I think you're one of the people that I would love to ask this to. And she said she was teaching some inner-city kids, and they were very traumatized kids coming from, you know, horrible childhood conditions, and they were angry at the word resilience. They said, you know, I did not— I'm not resilient, and I resent that because I have been forced into this situation. This is not my choice, and they were very angry about that word.

This is something I've been thinking about. Resilience can come from different states. So let's take, for example, my husband, who was in a state of pain and misery, but he was resilient in showing up at work for 15-hour days, pushing through pain, pushing through misery. Um, he was very resilient in that, and that feels like pain and punishment and victimhood and suffering. So on the other hand, my resilience always stemmed— well, I learned how to— I actually learned how to have it stem from a better place, from a better energy. So let me draw my strength and my ability to bounce back from a good inner state, meaning like, let me ask the question, where is it I wanna be? If I am angry and if I was hurt, I don't wanna be there. Where do I wanna be? I wanna be happy. So where am I happy? Now my resiliency has shifted to a positive forward drive rather than being resilient, like, be strong so that you can take more pain. Do you know what I'm saying?

But on the other hand, for him, he was the— because I think this is a very similar story and we can talk for hours. I want to have you back because we're, you know, running out of time. But I think this is an age-old story for a lot of marriages. I had a very similar story with my husband, not to that degree, But I think men push through, and when they're supporting 3 kids and a wife, they don't have any other options. They don't feel an option, and they will just push through it. Yeah. So I think that's really interesting. And he, he bounced back with his resilience as well from all that, right? I mean, like you said, he started opening up and cracking open, and like, he crumbled. Yeah. And then he cracked. So that was the resilience he came back with— he's starting to build, right? And he's even staying home with your kids. Yeah. And now you're the provider. That's amazing. That's amazing. And you're like one of the hardest working people I have seen also. I know you're super organized with your time. I am, right?

Yes, yes. And I am— I definitely put in the long hours. I can do an easy 7 massages a day, but I love it. Okay, so it doesn't feel like— I mean, there's— it's where I want to be.

And, and how do you keep yourself from burning out? Because I mean, obviously being an owner, but being an owner of, um, this business, that's not easy, right?

It's not easy.

But again, I know you're up early because when I email you at like 5 AM, you answer right back. So I know you're—

I know I, I am. And 5 AM, I'm in this amazing place and excited for my work day. The nourishment is actually in my work at this moment. So if you were to say to me, like, "Hey, Sheri, take a Florida vacation for 2 weeks," I would say that is not my idea of nourishment right now. Right now my idea of nourishment would be to do more work, you know, maybe do some more creative things.

But what about the nitty-gritty, like the bookkeeping and all the stuff that— I do it all. And you find gratitude to push through that?

I do, because number one, I'm so thankful that I'm able to support my family. That's amazing. I'm so thankful that I've been able to learn how to run a business, which I really just Googled. Wikipedia. Wikipedia. How do you start a business?

And your Sacred looks amazing. And you opened in September, right?

Pretty much September. We did have a soft opening the whole month of August, I think.

Congratulations on that. And I love that you have movement, because movement is a type of meditation. It is. And you have meditation, you have sound baths, you have so many ways to get to that place. I mean, we're born with the ability to meditate. It's just a regular state of mind. Yes, we've just lost it because we're not in that quietness. Anymore. This was so awesome. Thank you. And I can't wait to talk more because I want to have you back. I know that I've told you this before, but a lot of the people that I am good friends with and who I guess we mutually attract each other are very sort of spiritual and mystical and interested in things. And I know we talked about that. I'm so science-based, but not that I discount anything that we can't Yes. I'm not saying that it's not true, it's just— but we're an awesome complement. Yes, and I am so like—

I never cling to ideas. I tend to naturally be a little bit more on the mystical side because— but, you know, I always am looking for the research and the science and the proof behind it, and science has just so much more information, so—

Yeah, I mean, and so we're gonna talk about products and fun things like that, right? Yes. Great. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for being here, sharing all of this personal stuff that I know it's probably not easy to share. I know a lot of listeners out there are gonna really resonate with you and you're gonna help them a lot. Great.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you so much. Like so many other nonessential businesses, Sherri has had to close her doors to Addison, and spa and sacred for the time being. I asked Shari how she's pulling through this difficult time, and she said there's a couple of things that she holds on to. One is that suffering is due to our disconnection with our inner soul, and that meditation is establishing that connection. She reminds herself that quieting her mind will allow her soul to speak. And though these seem to be very Simple? That's what it all comes down to for her. Even in great suffering and insecurity, turning inwards to her soul is where she finds reprieve from all the conditions and understanding and connection. Please support Sherri's business by going to her website in the show notes below, AddisonStreetSpa.com. Email Sherri and she could put together a gift bag for you or a gift bag for for Mother's Day. She carries Pevonia facial products, inspirational books and crystals, aromatherapy and incense. Follow Sheri on her Instagram account, link below, because true to her compassionate and beautiful nature, she's putting up free online services to help people through meditation in this difficult time. Thank you for listening, and if you found this podcast helpful to you, please subscribe, give us a rating, and share with anyone that needs some stress management skills. Which is probably everyone at this time. Please check out our website mindbodyspace.com where you'll find the short meditations on a separate page for your convenience, and follow us on Instagram @mindbody.space where you can find the short guided visual meditations on the Instagram TV for your daily dose of the relaxation response. And finally, email us at info@mindbodyspace.com. At mindbodyspace.com to ask us questions to answer on this podcast, to suggest topics and guests. Stay well, everyone, and wishing all of you and your loved ones health, happiness, and hope.