Sound Bath as Medicine with Sara Auster Sound Therapist, Meditation Teacher and Author

Many people in the broader population have a concept of what a healer is, like a guru, like a person who has ultimate power over a situation, who could magically wave a hand in the air or put their hands on your forehead and you're miraculously healed in an instant. And that's just, as a doctor, I'm sure you understand, that's just not how healing works. It's a collaborative process. It very much relies on the willingness of the participant to engage in the experience, in the treatment, um, in the practice.

Welcome to RxChill Pill, the podcast that strengthens your resilient mind every time you listen to the extraordinary stories, expert tips, and meditations to elicit your relaxation response, the antidote to your stress response. I'm Dr. Juna Bobby MD. I'm a physician and mom specializing in mind-body and lifestyle medicine. Find out more about me, my personalized online courses on procrastination and mindset coaching for kids, teens, and adults, and mindbodyspace.com. Today I am so excited to have Sara Oster here. She is a recognized top meditation expert by Oprah Magazine, and she's been featured in countless media including the New York Times and Vogue. Sara has a deep connection to the healing aspects of sound, as she shares with us her story about a traumatic event that led her to search for a whole body alternative healing method to recover and manage chronic pain. Sarah has been kind enough to share with us her recording, Nomara, and you can find this on my website at mindbodyspace.com. Go to my podcast page where you'll find Sarah's episode. Sarah is a sound therapist, but she's so much more than that. I think of her as a sound artist, and it's apparent in the deep quality of attention that she gives to everything about her. She's best known for her sound bath experiences. And no, you don't get wet. You literally get bathed. A beautiful presentation of sound bowls in her highly curated experience. Sarah has a deep sense of calm and a lovely welcoming air about her. She's genuine, focused, and deeply true to her art form, a meditative healing through sound bath. She has curated events in intimate spaces such as schools and hospitals and small boardrooms, as well as massive large-scale events like MoMA, Lincoln Center, Central Park Summer Stage, Madison Square Garden, and internationally at the Palais de Tokyo in Paris. Partners include Sonos, Nike, Kripalu, New York Open Center, the Rubin Museum, and most recently, Audible. Global brands like Amex, Apple, and Microsoft have brought Sarah in as a facilitator and advisor.

So nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you too. I mean, I'll say hi again afterwards, but I just wanna like listen to you.

Okay.

No problem.

Okay.

So hi.

Hi. I love the sound of your voice, so I could— it's good that you have a podcast. I could seriously listen to you talk all day.

I love you, Sarah. That was one of the nicest things I've heard. So thank you so much. I do have a very wide range of voices though. So sometimes I wonder when I'm podcasting versus when I'm recording a meditation for the podcast.

So is it— this is your podcast?

This is, this is just my natural voice. I'm speaking to you in my pressured speech, just as if we were talking, if we had coffee. So I love that you like it because I thought I was talking too fast and all that. Anyway, getting back to— I am so happy that, you know, I waited a few minutes because I got to practice something that I learned from you, actually, which was the Instagram post about the sirens.

Help is on the way?

Yes.

Help is on the way. Yes. And I actually— I live in New York City on the Lower East Side, directly across the street from a fire station. I am exposed probably to many more sounds of sirens than most people. And in— through my practice of shifting my relationship to my sonic environment and an awareness of sounds, which started a long time ago, and we can get into that later, I began to explore my relationship to different environmental sounds. And I, I noticed a tendency, as it might be many of our tendencies to put our fingers in our ears and scrunch our faces and tense up the whole body every time a siren goes by, police car, fire truck, etc. Of course, we know that these sounds are designed this way intentionally to alert us to get out of the way. That's what they're designed exactly for. And not to say that we shouldn't be protecting our ears and our hearing. Of course, covering your ears is helpful when there's an extremely loud noise in your presence. But if you can soften your emotional response to the sound by recognizing that there is, that there is a very important reason why this sound is happening, because first responders are attempting to get to someone or some situation that, that needs assistance. And in order to do that, they need you to get out of the way. And so it's now when I hear sirens, of course I cover my ears to protect my physical hearing because we know it'll never come back, right? Uh, but you know, I also say Good luck. Help is on the way. Isn't that amazing? There are many different cultures and traditions that say, isn't this wonderful? When there's a tragedy or some sort of physical thing, they say, isn't this beautiful? You know, that we have this kind of technology and this protocol that says, you know, somebody's suffering, somebody needs help, and somebody's job is to get there in a timely fashion to help them. And that's all happening right now as I'm hearing this sound. So help is on the way. Help is on the way is what I say when I hear a siren. Yeah.

When you're on call, you're hearing these ambulances. I trained at NYU at Bellevue, and it was just so jarring, right? All of those ambulances. And when you posted that, I shifted. Completely my attitude towards hearing ambulances and fire engines. And today, this morning, I'm sitting here waiting for you. And I use that same concept because just as we were about to start recording, I heard lawn mowers outside, very loud machines going and tree cutters. And I was like, oh no, you know, we're going to have this interview and it's going to be ruined. And then I started to think, you know, I'm so thankful for these people out there cutting down dead tree branches to keep us safe. So that's how I dealt with the few minutes. I kind of meditated on that as I was waiting for you. So thank you.

Beautiful. Thanks for sharing that. Right. And it can be applied to any sound that you might label as having a negative reaction to, to just kind of explore that. Mm-hmm.

Like, for example, maybe new parents with their babies. I think most humans get upset when they hear babies crying. That's why on an airplane people get upset when they see a baby sitting next to them. They're just praying that they're not going to cry.

I know, and that poor little thing has no other way to communicate its needs, and everything in the world is new to that little being, and it must be so terrifying.

At every moment, things are flying in front of your face and You know, and there's that onesie that says, um, my mommy drinks because I cry or something. So maybe if we looked at that kind of sound as a communication rather than something that upsets us, because, you know, I guess people want to help or want to do something and they feel anxiety, and that's why these sounds to us are upsetting, right?

Right. And there's that saying that how you relate to, or how you do anything is how you do everything. And I think of it as how you relate to anything is how you relate to everything. And so then your relationship with sound becomes a metaphor for all relationships.

Wow, I love it.

Well, thank you so much for being here today.

I just have to say, I love everything about you, your whole internet presence that I've seen, and you are a sound person, but visually you're so pleasing as well.

Thank you.

And by that I mean everything is just these beautiful soothing colors that you have, and I noticed that you dress in very neutral colors. Is that all part of the meditative experience you're trying to help people have?

Yes, I, I, it's all very intentional.

I love it. I love it.

I think that people's judgments or reactions to an experience start very early on. So let's take the example of a live sound bath event. The experience doesn't only happen when that person walks into the room and sees how the room is set up and the lighting and the instruments and all these things. The experience happens when somebody first sees an invitation or an announcement to the event, because that initial entry point is when the relationship starts to the experience. And this is something that Priya Parker actually, who's a master facilitator of primarily conflict resolution, but also the author of The Art of Gathering, she talks about it in such a, in such a clear way to really be intentional around the purpose of coming together right from the start. And that is something that has always been very meaningful to me as both a teacher and an artist, which I was before I ever started facilitating sound experiences. So the visual component for me is very important.. And if I were to wear fluorescent pink and green flowered muumuus or whatever, I don't know, then people would instantly have a different kind of reaction to me as a facilitator of an experience. And that's what's happening in our brains right from the start.

Yeah. You describe it as holding space for people, and I also saw that you were reminding people that they are not a slave to you and that they could move or, you know, drink something while in your sound bath and that you're there for them rather than you're being a rock star or something or the center of attention. So is that what this is a part of, sort of creating that whole experience?

Certainly. And I appreciate that you pick up on those things because language is another thing that's very important to me in, in presenting my work because it's one of the reasons why I made a choice not to call myself a sound healer early on is because I felt that many people in the broader population have a concept of what a healer is, like a guru, like a person who has ultimate power over a situation, who could magically wave a hand in the air or put their hands on your forehead and you're miraculously healed in an instant. And that's just— as a doctor, I'm sure you understand— that's just not how healing works. It's a collaborative process. It very much relies on the willingness of the participant to engage in the experience, in the treatment, in the practice. And wow.

And so I'm saying wow because you, you said that in one of the most astute and concise ways I've ever heard anyone say it. I'm gonna quote that a lot because that is so true.

Yeah. And I think a lot of the times, myself included, concluded when I was moving through my own recovery from injury and attempting to get out of physical pain that I was getting some relief from what other people were doing to me. And I ultimately got to this point where I felt like if I'm going to have any kind of, you know, quote unquote normal life, I can care for myself. I, I have to learn tools. I have to learn how to help myself, if that, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. This is incredible because you're talking about the time when you broke your back.

Yeah, I broke my back.

What did you break specifically?

T10, 11, 12, L1 compression fractures.

Oh wow.

Temporary paralysis. Yeah. Guess I have to rewind a little bit. Yeah. I broke my back when I was 23 years old. I was working as an artist in New York City in my studio that was awarded to me as a space grant. So I'd gotten a free studio space to work and make my art, and I was working in there one night and I heard some loud sounds, and before I knew it, the floor was giving way underneath me and I fell 15 feet from the second floor into the first floor.

So not worth it being free. Don't take any free spaces.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, you're the second person who had that. A friend of mine, Michelle Assoff, she's a dancer, she fell through the floor and she now teaches muscle relaxation techniques for dancers because of what happened to her. I should introduce the two of you.

Oh yeah, that would be amazing. I mean, because it's a really important pivotal moment in my life because of course the desire to get out of physical pain sort of redirected me onto this path. When I was released after 2 weeks from the hospital with a back brace from my hips up to my chin and a walker, could barely walk, um, I knew the concept of physical therapy and so I asked for physical therapy and he said, my neurosurgeon said Oh, I, I can write you a prescription for physical therapy if you want it. And I said, yes, I, I do. But what else do you recommend, doctor? And he said, if it hurts, don't do it.

That's old-fashioned now though.

I know, but oh well, I was 23 a little while ago.

They don't say that anymore, thank goodness. They want you to move as soon as possible. Even if you're hooked up to a ventilator, they try to start moving you.

Yeah.

At least in some places. I'm glad you didn't take that advice.

Yeah, and it really set me out to kind of to seek alternative and complementary solutions or treatments. It was the first time I tried acupuncture. I found a chiropractor who had a— and at this time that this wasn't very common— a chiropractor who worked with an acupuncturist, and she put me on a cleanse and she broke down a whole one-year program, a two-year program. She had me working with a a physical therapist and a trainer. I mean, it was for a 2.5-hour initial consultation. I mean, she—

Yeah. That's— did they take insurance?

No.

That's exactly the difference between physicians and alternative healthcare workers. So physicians, unfortunately, they put you on a mill. Hopefully things will change, but yeah, I have, I have friends who have gone to the non-insurance route just because. They were just pushed to the limits of how many people they had to see in a day. So it's unfortunate that we can't spend time like that, right, with patients. But also I wanna reel back and say that you shouldn't move if it's really painful.

Right.

But yes, you can move to improve mobility and to increase strength, right? So I just wanted to add that in.

Yeah. And just to add one more thing, because this, this whole conversation with this this neurosurgeon is burned into my brain that when I asked him to expand on that response, if it hurts, don't do it, uh, he said no pogo sticking, no dune buggy riding, and no horseback riding. Just to get a sense of the age of this doctor.

I guess he thought it was funny.

Yeah, he was, he was laughing at me, you know.

It's like neurosurgeon humor. Yeah. I have to say some of the best people I know are neurosurgeons though.

Yes. I'm not, I remember, and this is not in any way to say, I know, I know, I know.

I know. Believe me, I try to stay out of the hospital as much as I can. Yes. Uh, the neurosurgeons, the guys that I knew when we were training or going to medical school, they just were the nicest people and the smartest and the hardest working. And they almost never slept, which is terrible. But, but, um, pretty incredible. Pretty incredible people. But yes, I agree with you that advice was not too helpful, which is why Dr. Benson up at Mass General Harvard Medical School, he talks about the three legs in healthcare. So you hopefully didn't need surgery, but if you did that, you would need a surgeon.

Mm-hmm.

And then you need medications to get you through that acute part when you fell through the floor and you had to stay two weeks in the hospital. They had to stabilize you.

Mm-hmm.

So all of that is technology, medication, surgery. And then the third leg, which he talks about, which is just as important as you're saying, is the self-healing part, which we were lacking until I think more people are understanding that now. But as you said, as a patient, you're a partner in it, but education is so important and guidance and what to do with that when you're self-healing.

Yeah. I think many people move through life not really having an understanding of what's going on inside their own bodies or understanding, uh, anatomy at all.

Or— oh yeah, you studied anatomy, right? Was that from your art artist times?

Or, you know, it's, it's interesting. I always— I, I had, when I was very young, I had an older sister who had a chronic illness, was in and out of the hospital for a couple of years, and then ultimately passed away when I was 10 years old. So I spent a lot of time—

and I'm so sorry—

I spent a lot of time in hospitals at a young age and was always very fascinated in the body and medicine and understanding how things worked. I had a really insatiable curiosity for that. And when I went on to become a visual artist, the, um, multimedia visual artist incorporating sounds and, and lights and imagery into the installation work I was doing, it did have a very anatomical theme to it in most of my work. And then after, after my accident, I started to explore the study of anatomy and, and physiology, kinesiology, neurology, as I went to school for massage therapy at the Swedish Institute in, in New York. I never became a massage therapist officially. As a forever student and seeker, I have a tendency to do that, go through an entire program or a certification and just, just to have a deeper understanding of the subject matter.

I am in that group with you. I got my yoga teacher certificate too. So I bet your massage therapy work though helps you in some way with what you do, right? You incorporate everything probably.

Yeah, of course. It's, it's always a building on of what I study and, and what I learn. I did also in those, in those years after my accident, probably thousands of hours of yoga and meditation teacher training without the intention to become a teacher at all. Only because I continued to explore different practices and begin to find relief not only physically, but also emotionally from the trauma of falling through the floor.

Of course, of course.

So let's reel back before trauma and after trauma. You're so interesting. I love hearing about everything you've done. So before trauma, you were a visual artist at that point. What did you do before the fall?

Yeah, pretty, pretty interdisciplinary. So I've been a visual artist and a musician from when I was very young, always creating and making art and, and music. And so working as a professional artist in my early 20s in New York, that was the trajectory that I was on to create these large-scale immersive, uh, installations with photographic imagery and, and light and sound to really essentially bring people into an experience, which is not different from what I do now. There's a different motivation, a different intention behind the experiences that I'm, I'm offering to people.

Uh-huh.

Were you a self-taught artist, or did you go to school for art?

I went to school for visual art. I went to SUNY Purchase I've been a Westchester undergraduate, and because it's so— I mean, I grew up in New York, and many people who go to that school are local people. And so I developed a very strong community of friends, artists, musicians, and we always collaborated and continue to do so beyond that environment. In fact, one of my friends from school, Noah Post, did the chapter opener drawings in my book. And he made, he made these drawings while listening to my recordings so that we could offer not only a moment of pause between each chapter visually, but also to show the visual representation of sound and the response of an artist to this particular type of sound.

Basically the sound artistry though, you trained yourself, right?

Yeah, I mean, I studied with several different teachers. It wasn't— people like a short answer to this question, like, what program did you do that taught you how to do what you do? So this is a modern concept, this like doing a certain amount of training and then becoming proficient in a field. We know you can look at any field. Look at, at cooking, for instance, right? To become a chef, sure, you can go to the best culinary school and have a degree from that culinary school, but unless you are apprenticing with a master chef and putting in thousands of hours, you know, beyond that schooling, you know, chances are you're probably not going to open up a 3 Michelin star restaurant, you know. So I use that example to say, you know, one certification or one degree from any university or program does not solely make you qualified as a master, master, or proficient in your field. If That makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah. No, I'm just curious because you're just this leader. Sound bathing, which is, I mean, was probably even unheard of, I don't know, 5 years ago even, you know, I'm always curious about people who are so resilient and make almost a whole new field.

I know it's not new, but presented it in a very accessible, approachable, perhaps elegant. Yes.

Yes, all those things. Elegant, beautiful, accessible. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. How did you get there? Was it something you honed? Everything you said was you're so intentional about everything you're doing. And you know, when you think— when I think about artists, I don't necessarily think of them as the most organized, intentional. I don't know, maybe it's a different kind of artist that's organized and intentional. Is that—

oh, I don't think I used organized.

Oh, I think you're organized.

But I appreciate that.

Uh, I'm sorry, that's how I see you.

I don't know, it just feels very— but yeah, I, I think it's the, the artist slash teacher that adds that element. That I, I've long been teaching, and in my past I've been a teaching artist. And I am a teacher of meditation, and I have led trainings to teach other people how to explore their own personal relationship with sound. So I think the, the teach— and not all artists are teachers.

Mm-hmm, that's true. Absolutely. And so teaching, you have to be organized.

Or you have to be clear in your communication. And that is what I feel I'm able to offer to more of a mainstream audience in this work that is, up until this point, up until a few years ago, or, or currently, has been a completely, you know, esoteric niche experience.

Or as you call it, woo-woo, right?

Which was You know, which was also the case for yoga and meditation in the '60s. True, true. And '70s. And now that has become more Western, you know, mainstream. And so I think there's always going to be a wave, right? These are, these are old traditions from lineages that go back thousands of years. However, there will always be a wave wave of new teachers, new communicators who are able to present it for the time.

Yes, you are that new communicator. The first sentence of chapter 1, I think you say, I am not a woo-woo person, says the person who's writing a book on sound bathing, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think that comes too from being very cynical and skeptical of all these quote unquote alternative practices before my accident. And then getting to that point, you know, arms folded, eyes rolling, I'm not doing this just because you say it's important. You know, and then so I felt as I started to enter into these worlds of meditation, of yoga, of different modalities of healing and energy work, I felt 'somebody just needs to say this differently.' These are very powerful concepts, but I don't think that many of them are being presented in a way that a person like me can digest easily.

And you're the translator.

I hope so. I think so. I, I try to be.

Okay, so taking that sort of esoteric centuries-old human and religious sound therapy, right? And then translating it into more of a modern setting. One of the first chapters in your book was about sound and the science of sound. And it sounds— it seems like you married the two disciplines, like ancient practices and modern science, to be able to make sense to yourself as well as to become a translator of all these valuable practices to people so that they're accessible. I'm just wondering, how— is that how you saw the value in all of these ancient practices, or was it just from suffering and pain and you were like, let me just try anything and see if it works?

Well, okay. Both. There are a couple of different places I want to, I want to go with that. And I think the first is, um, I, I, I'm, I'm not a medical professional, so let me, uh, buffer that. That's the footnote. Um, but I've definitely looked at a lot of studies about how sounds can have a profound effect on your well-being. And I'm not a researcher, but I've looked at research around sounds and how sounds can affect people. And it's— sound is such a vast subject. And then within that, sound therapy is also very broad. So there are many ways, many different ways that sound can be applied therapeutically, from actually putting tuning forks on the body to using different tones to create binaural beats for brainwave entrainment to just meditative, deep listening experiences like sound baths. And I felt that, you know, in the way that I wanted to structure the book is say, Okay, before we talk about sound baths, we have to talk about sound and what that is. And just try and— I mean, some of the concepts like how the ear works are, are pretty basic concepts, but something that I felt that people should have an introduction to, to really understand the concept that sound does affect us on many levels as, uh, Dr. McKeon. He was an oncologist, Cornell. Um, but anyway, yeah, he's, he's passed a few years ago, but he was really integrating sound therapy with his, um, with his patients as, as complementary. And he wrote a book called The Healing Power of Sounds. He was really saying that the, the role of sounds can— it can, it can play a role in, in virtually any medical disorder as a, a way to provide a, a sense of peace and calm and reduce stress. And so that's really my particular approach with sound baths. Of course, there are people who are exploring Can a particular frequency break up a cancer cell? I mean, those are, those are in the super, super, super early stages of experiments. And so—

They use sound waves to break up kidney stones.

Well, they do. Right. Right. But it's so, it's so vast and there are so many variables to how any one individual will react and respond. To sounds that, you know, I always try to make it clear that there's no one end result for every person.

Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah, everybody has very personal opinions of what kind of music they like, for example. But on the other hand, you can do like a C major chord versus a minor chord and you feel happy in the major chord and the minor is sad.

Right. And so that to me, that how sound affects us us emotionally is much more tangible than, you know, how sound can affect any one particular aspect of our physical body. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I mean, emotional undertone and the effects of sound are so fascinating because it crosses cultures and language.

Yeah.

When I was watching you play the harmonium—

That instrument is called a shruti box. It's in the same family. It's a classical Indian instrument, but it's like a harmonium minus the keyboard.

Oh, okay. How did you come to pick that and the singing bowls for your instruments?

It's interesting. I have a very large collection of instruments. And so over the years in my sound bath experiences, I have introduced different types of sounds. And in my work, of course, feedback is the most important thing from, from participants. So I, you know, work and get feedback and work and get feedback and really have a deep sense first for how a particular sound or an instrument feels to me before I introduce it to other people. And so I'm constantly rotating slightly the types of sounds and instruments I use in my experiences.

Sometimes you have the audience hum along and it becomes part of the music too, right?

Yeah.

Do you actually write it out like music?

No.

That I wondered if you had it written out or you're just going with whatever you're doing at the moment, right?

It's not planned ahead in a traditional sense like a, um, a symphony or a song. It doesn't have that type of structure. But before I facilitate the experience, I am thinking about what instruments I'm going to play and why. And then during the experience, it is mostly intuitive. Well, let's talk about a live experience first, and then for the last couple of months, of course, I've been facilitating virtual experiences, which is different. So in a live experience, you can't see them, right? Right. So in a live experience, it's intuitive in a sense where I am, in a sense, in conversation and in communication with what's happening in the room by looking at participants primarily. And so I'm responding by, you know, subtle shifts in how I'm playing, in tempo and the combination of instruments, and also responding to any environmental sound that might be in the space. In New York, you might hear sirens. So I am responding and sort of integrating those unintentional sounds into the experience. In a virtual experience, it's quite different in a sense. How can I explain this? And it almost feels like trying to stuff a genie into a bottle because the instruments are quite resonant and really fill the space when you're experiencing them live, which is one reason why it might feel like you're quote unquote being bathed in sound. Or immersed in sound because you're also, in addition to hearing the resonance of the instruments, you're also feeling the resonance of the instruments as you would if you were standing in the front row of a large concert next to a speaker versus listening to your favorite song in your headphones.

So would you say virtually you should wear headphones when we're listening?

Headphones or connecting to your home speakers or even a Bluetooth speaker, because what happens with smartphone speakers or computer speakers is that it's really kind of condensing the sound. So it's a much more optimal listening experience to have headphones or speakers. Um, the most beautiful thing that I have observed from facilitating virtual experiences is that people are tuning in from all over the world simultaneously.

That's wonderful.

And that is something that I haven't experienced before, uh, and it is much more powerful than I ever imagined, that people really feel together and connected through the experience, that many people are inviting their friends and family members who are in other time zones to join in at the same time to have a shared experience. And then they— it's almost like they you know, quote unquote, meet there in a sense, and then talk about it afterwards, share their experience afterwards. So it has really become profound way for people to connect with each other.

Which is always something that you had in mind when you started these sound baths, right?

Right. It's always been, always been the motivation behind my work, whatever form my work has taken. The motivation has always been to invite self-discovery, inspire profound transformation, creativity, but also to provoke meaningful connection. And in this sense, it's, it's through sound and deep listening. As a visual artist, it was engaging the senses— smell, hearing, touch— by interacting and touching the artwork. So Yeah, but the motivation is always the same.

So now it's the sound bath, and of course it's not a bath, so you don't get wet. I know people ask you that question, right?

Yeah.

So with the sound bath, do you use scents and incense and things like that?

I have, you know, before all this that we're in right now.

Yeah.

I was offering a monthly event with my partner called Scent and Sound.— and we would pick a different aromatherapy to complement the season or whatever was going on at the time. For instance, around the holiday time, we might choose a scent that is calming, relaxing. In the summertime, we might choose citrus that might be more energizing, or mint. And then we would put the scent in diffusers around the space and have a scent being, being diffused into the space during the sound experience to, to complement the experience. If and when I use scent, I always try to make people very aware because I know that some people are sensitive to certain scents. And I talk about this in my book too, Sound as a Complementary to other practices. I've also partnered with a colleague who's a doctor of Chinese medicine where we've done sound baths with acupuncture.

What about this collaboration with museums and—

yeah, or movements, sound movements? Yeah, yeah. I've also partnered with several different museums: the Rubin, MASS MoCA, Museum of Modern Art, Palais de Tokyo in Paris, where they're really mindful listening experiences that tie in a particular work of art or exhibit. There might be a curator who speaks to the artwork first as an educational component, and then in my introduction, where I always start with a guidance with my voice, I'm tying in the physical experience of being in the space and viewing the art.

I love it.

That's amazing. What about with yoga? Do you ever do it with a yoga studio?

Yeah, I used to. I used to, because I taught yoga for several years. I used to— I started offering sound baths in yoga studios before it was a thing that yoga studios offered. And I actually, uh, the, the owner of my studio at first wasn't really interested because she didn't see the connection as to how this people just laying down tied into the physical aspect of asana and moving the body. And again, I know that's hard to, to think now because pretty much every yoga studio offers a sound experience, but at that time it was not, it was not a thing that happened in every yoga studio. Um, the reason why I started doing them in yoga studios was because they— oh, you went out— had everything that I felt was needed to support people in the experience, like a clear open space first of all, and then also mats and blankets and bolsters so that when people are seated or lying on the floor, they could be comfortable and supported in their bodies.

Mm-hmm. I mean, I can't wait to come to the next one. It sounds amazing to me. What are the youngest people who show up? Do you do it for kids also?

Oh, yeah. And now, especially with recordings, I'm getting a lot of messages from parents thanking me for putting their kids to sleep.

I was going to ask you, do a lot of people start snoring when you have them lying down? I was just wondering if I, I don't know, if I was tired, I'd probably fall asleep if it's so relaxing, right?

The goal of a sound bath is not to fall asleep.

Just like meditation, right? You're not really supposed to.

Similarly. However, I have used sound as a tool to access, to help people access different states. So it really depends on the intention. Of the particular experience. So when I'm facilitating live experiences, for instance, I don't want people to pass out unconscious because I need them to wake up and leave and leave and go home. But, uh, you know, recently I partnered with Audible on a new platform that just launched last week called Audible Sleep. And in that, I love Audible. Oh, check it out. Check out my track.

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, it's called Rest and Digest. Uh, so, so in that sense, those sound experiences are designed to lull you into a relaxed state and ultimately sleep. So it depends what the intention of the experience is, you know, through in, in meditation. And that's, that's the goal. Then obviously you would love to be lingering in a liminal state.

But it sounds lovely.

It's the intention.

We're all having some trouble going to sleep lately, so—

right, everyone is. Yeah, right. So when you're at home and you're comfortable in your bed, um, you know, then I, I also have recordings available on my website, on Spotify, on iTunes that are more designed to support your desires.

And that's on sarahoster.com. And you have virtual sound baths on Instagram Tuesdays and Thursdays 12 PM Eastern Standard Time and Saturdays at 5 PM, right?

Yes, thank you for the info.

And I'm gonna put a— of course I'm gonna put a link to everything. I can't wait to experience some of your live ones too, and you have a calendar for that, but I guess we don't know when the live events will be at this point, right?

But in the meantime, I'm gonna continue to offer these virtual live events and then ultimately partner with some other people to make them even more accessible to a broader audience.

Oh, I love it.

So coming soon.

So a question about something you mentioned before, which was that your yoga studio owner was not interested in it at that point. And I'm just wondering, you're in museums, you're in boardrooms. How did you convince people, or was it just word of mouth?

Oh, see, that's a very interesting word, convince. So I often like to say that I am not and will ever be in the business of convincing anybody of anything. Selling anything, pitching anything. I mean, the pitching is a little different, uh, but it was always my intention to make the experience accessible. And going back to what I said before about where I was coming from as a student and as a practitioner who was just learning about these things, saying, well, this language is a little off-putting, or this graphic doesn't really appeal to me, and I think I can present this in a way that, that might be a little bit more inviting and a little bit more appealing to a broader audience. And, you know, I broke my back, and people were like, oh, you should try yoga. I was like, no, I'm not a yoga person. I can't even sit on the floor right now. How am I going to do yoga? And so, you know, as I taught yoga and as I taught meditation more and more, I was working with beginners, people also with physical limitations. And I felt that, you know, that, that was really my, my motivation with bringing sound baths to people instead of, you know, forcing people to come to the sound bath where there might be a barrier for entry, like having it in a yoga studio where somebody says, I don't do yoga, I'm not gonna go do anything in a yoga studio. Mm-hmm.

Oh, so you brought it to the institution or the hospital or—

Yeah, you think those people were just calling me suddenly? That's not how it works.

But so you started off by calling their, their people and saying, I have this to offer. Or like, why would boardrooms, why would like a CEO do your sound meditation? Is somebody contacting you about that because they heard about you or are your people calling them?

Well, now, now people call me and I'll I'll also let it be known early on, I didn't have, quote, what you said, my people. Now I work with a couple people. You had a person. Me, myself, and I. I was the person.

Yeah.

You know, but also, it becomes such a profound and transformative experience for people that they can't help but want to share it with other people. And so in that sense, that's how it started to grow. I mean, the first experiences that I was facilitating were, you know, 5 or 6 people, and then somebody would have, you know, a really moving experience, and then they would bring their friend or their mom or their coworker, and then, you know, it grows from there and say, oh well, maybe I can bring this into the workplace, or maybe I can share this because it is accessible in the way that it's being presented.

And you've been doing this for 10 years, right? Over 10 years?

Yeah.

That's amazing. So what is your daily routine, if I may ask? What is your personal care routine in general life and now with our extra stress?

Yeah, it's interesting because you'll say I'm, I'm, uh, I'm of course a regular meditator. I meditate now 3 times a day. Uh, wow.

Before, how much, how long?

Pre-quarantine, it was twice a day. Um, one of my practices is, is my first practice in the morning is usually 30 to 40 minutes, and then I have a later morning practice that's around 20-25 minutes, and then the afternoon practice is between you know, 20, 30 minutes or so.

And do you use a certain technique, or do you have a favorite teacher that showed you the kind of meditation that you like to do? Do you use an app?

I do not use an app, although I am a contributor to some apps with my own music and sounds. Which ones? Several. Many, many where I am an anonymous contributor.

So, but you're on Insight Timer, right?

Oh yeah, I think I am.

It's one of my favorites. I love Insight Timer. So you don't— you don't use an app?

No, no, no, no, I don't use an app. I'm a Vedic meditate— meditator.

I learned from Tom Knowles.

Ah, Tom Knowles as my teacher as well.

Oh yeah, well, that was one of— one of the meditations. I mean, I've learned from many different people. I think the Vedic one stuck with me the most. Is that your experience, or do you use all different types? I mean, I use visualizations also. What is your— your go-to is Vedic?

It's my most consistent practice. I practice with my own recordings also. I love that. Yeah. People ask, how do you experience a sound bath? Like, well, It's easy. I have many that I can play for myself that are played by myself, if that's not too strange.

And, you know, sometimes my kids will turn on a recording of my voice and I can meditate to it as well because I have the separate meditation voice.

Well, but it's, it's interesting also because I think that, I don't know, we, we all could, could learn to listen to ourselves a bit better. I know many people have a hard time listening to the sound of their own voice, but it's nice to be able to talk to yourself, to be able to, to guide yourself in that, in that sense. So on the surface, it might seem funny. Oh, I'm listening to my own self, you know, but I think it's a really interesting practice. To, to engage in. Off on a little tangent there.

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, tangents are great. That's what makes life interesting. So you meditate 3 times a day. Are you doing yoga? What, what else are you doing for self-care?

Yoga, movement, uh, of different types, walks, um Listening to music throughout the day, taking pauses. I think that's so important that people put a lot of pressure on themselves, like, oh, if I can't sit still and quietly for 30 minutes, then I might as well not even try. But I think now, especially with all of the screen time that we're required to have on Zoom and on our phones, that even if every hour, every 2 hours, you could just pause for 1 to 3 minutes, um, just to, just to get quiet, to close your eyes, to take a few breaths. Those types of things are really important now because, uh, people shouldn't be putting pressure on themselves to, you know, write their first novel or to, you know, think now is all about being very kind and gentle to yourself and building in, incorporating things that are very easy to apply because we're being asked to navigate many other challenging things right now. So the things that we do to care for ourselves should be very simple right now.

Unless you're excited to write that novel, right?

Oh yeah.

Go for it.

Your book, your book is amazing, by the way. I love your book. And it's— your book is more than just about the sound bath. It really is a book that describes and teaches how to meditate as well. So I thought that was amazing.

Thank you. I appreciate that because I felt that, you know, the way that I facilitate a sound bath is really a marriage and a combination of all of the different aspects of my own personal practice and all of my various studies in different disciplines. And so I felt it important to present that.

It's called Sound Bath: Meditate, Heal, and Connect Through Listening, but it's like a practical guide. You do go through all the different mind aspects of meditation.

And, and really when we think about, you know, meditation in the traditional sense, that there is something or someone that is guiding the experience, whether it's another person speaking to you or it's an awareness of a mantra or a particular focus like the breath. There's— there is some kind of focus that is guiding the experience. And in a sound bath, the sound is guiding guiding from a meditative aspect.

I just want to thank you so much for your time.

Thank you. What a great conversation.

It was awesome, and I, I can't wait to see you in person and say hi to you again. Oh, you're coming back?

Yay!

Hi, Sarah, how are you?

See, we were here the whole time.

I know, that was a— you're amazing. I, I want to thank you again. I'm gonna have all the links here for to all of your website and your amazing book and all your, all the work you're doing now for everyone.

Thank you so much for listening and strengthening those neuronal resilience connections in your brain.

I know it's a mouthful.

That's my inner science geek just telling you that you're changing your brain and boosting your resilience just by listening, reflecting, and learning.

Email us at info@mindbodyspace.com. Mindbodyspace.com if you have questions you'd like answered on the podcast or you have guests that you'd like to suggest.

Most importantly, please share this podcast with your friends, family, and community. We can all use our brain's chemistry to boost our immune systems and resilience right now. Also email me at info@mindbodyspace.com to sign up for my SMART Programs stress management and resiliency training for the first time given completely online, and it starts October first. The SMART program was developed at the Benson-Henry Institute for Mind-Body Medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School. 40 years of robust research backs this program, and it can alleviate anxiety-related symptoms, headaches or migraines, autoimmune disorders, mild to moderate depression, chronic pain or TMJ, insomnia or fatigue, GI disorders, skin problems, asthma or allergies. Basically, it will help you improve your wellness and alleviate anything that is related to stress. You will learn about the connection between stress and physical or emotional problems, and you'll practice a wide variety of techniques to elicit the relaxation response. You'll learn how to shift towards realistic positive thinking and beliefs, and the importance of healthy eating, restorative sleep, and physical activity. So sign up now for early bird pricing and special discounts for healthcare workers and teachers. Bring friends to the introduction introductory class, and you can get friends and family discounts. You'll get the official workbook from the Benson Henry Institute, and you'll get a beautiful Mind Body Space workbook that I made just for this course. You'll get my meditation recordings in a package that you can download. The first 5 people who sign up will get a customized meditation just for them. Get a friend to sign up with you, and you'll get a free RX Chill Pill podcast tote and merchandise. Again, that's info, I-N-F-O, at mindbodyspace.com. Looking forward to seeing you. This is Dr. Juna signing off, wishing you and your loved ones wellness.