Spiritual Rockstar Biet Simkin Translates Ancient Teachings to Modern Meditation

Or the first time I ever interacted with fear, I was a kid. And so, it's oftentimes when we get overwhelmed, we become hysterical because we revert back to the kind of the emotional apparatus of a child. And then, we're like, "I don't know how I will deal with this." And the truth is, is that as a 3-year-old, you didn't know how to deal with it. And so, that's what you're kind of going back— you're going back to that initial sensation of overwhelm. And then you go back into the physical kind of repercussions of that, which just reverberates in you forever. But as a meditator, you can actually stop it and say, this is actually not happening right now. That feeling, like, I— that feeling of overwhelm is triggered, a feeling of overwhelm from when I was 3, but that is currently not happening. And by using breathwork or just breathing, you can bring yourself back to the present moment. That only solution is to come back to the present moment.

This is RxChill Pill. Now is the time to stay well. Each episode teaches your brain how to become resilient with amazing stories, knowledge from experts, and short meditations you can do anywhere, anytime to elicit your relaxation response. I'm your host, Dr. Juna Bobby MD, resilience and stress management physician and mother of two amazing kids. That was Biet Simkin. Can you relate to her? If you can, you're not alone. Thousands of people have been led by Biette, whether it's in the main atrium at the MoMA Museum in New York City or at one of her other immersive experiences. Biette is definitely in her own league as a meditation and spiritual guide. Her parents immigrated from Russia. Her dad was a doctor, a medical doctor, but also a shaman. And at the very young age of 7, Biette lost her mother to cancer. She grew up with her dad who was loving and who taught her meditation, but he was also not there for her in any conventional sense. She pretty much grew up on her own in an adult world, dealing with it by becoming a singer and songwriter, and at the age of 19 being signed by Sony Records. All of the glitz and glamour faded quickly, spiraling into a life of poverty and addiction. She hit absolute rock bottom when she lost her beautiful baby daughter Ula to sudden infant death syndrome. And with these tragedies of loss, Biette started to turn inwards into the spiritual teachings that her dad had imparted on her. She became a meditation guide, eventually launching the Guided by Biette series, for which she even scored her own music, guiding thousands into meditation in, at that time, unusual spaces like museums, hotels, and fashion shows. Now she has turned her life around She's completely sober, even starting a sober movement, and I'm happy to say that she now has a lovely and absolutely beautiful little girl and a wonderful supportive husband. Biette has truly modernized the spiritual path, and as you listen to our interview, you're going to get into the inner workings of her mind as we explore how she managed another shocking and sudden loss this year. Listen to the very end to find out how you can be entered to win a copy of Biet's book. Oh, and by the way, there is some scattered strong language in this interview.

Today I'm here with Biet Simkin, founder of Center of the Cyclone. I love that name.

Thank you.

She's also the author of Don't Just Sit There: 44 Insights to Get Your Meditation Practice Off the Cushion and Into the Real World, Simon Schuster book. And Marianne Williamson, author of "A Course in Miracles" and former presidential candidate, says of Biette, "She combines a fabulous modern sensibility with an illumined understanding of eternal wisdom. I hope many will both sit and walk with her. She is shining a very bright light on who we are and where we might go." Biette has spoken at Harvard Innovation Labs. She's been interviewed by Forbes, Elle, Harper's Bazaar, Time, Glamour, Refinery29, Page Six, Inc., The Sunday Times, The Observer. And she holds exclusive intimate meditation groups in private homes as well as at big events for places like MoMA, the Museum of Modern Art, New York City, Urban Outfitters, Wanderlust. And she was the first meditation ambassador for Lululemon. She's also recorded original music, which was how I was first drawn to her.

Hmm.

And her ethereal and beautiful voice on her album called Lunar. I want to send you virtual hugs. Hi, Biet Simkin.

Hi, so good to see you, Juna Bobby MD.

So good to see you, Biet. Guess what I just did before we got on?

Tell me.

I did your meditation.

Which one? Oh, the one on Instagram?

No, the one on Welcome Earth TV.

Yeah.

It is amazing.

Oh, thank you. It'll reset you.

Your voice is mesmerizing.

Oh, that is so kind. Thank you.

The other thing I would want to say is that during this strange time of COVID and everything that's going on right now, I thought it was perfect for me because there was so much breathing in it. I'm definitely going to recommend this meditation and write it on prescriptions because you can take these huge deep breaths with you. And we all know right now we want our lungs to be at full capacity.

Yes, very much so. And our souls to be at full capacity, right?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

I love that.

So tell, tell me about that meditation you did for them, the heart opening meditation.

Well, that one we did a few years ago and we released it as a gift. And, um, so it's free on Welcome Earth for anyone who wants it and You know, it's a chakra, which I, I usually don't talk about chakras because I find that it's just confusing and many people don't believe in them and don't know, and I can't prove that they exist. So I try to stick to like the simple, um, experiential parts of meditation, but it's meant to attune you to the various glands in your body and then open up different forms of calmness in each different area of your body as you go through it. I, I use more the word soul just because, like, I'm not working with— like, the body is a vehicle to this place, but the place that I'm going to and the place that's always been there to help me is not visible. It's not provable. It's, it's kind of like that secret underworld or that secret other side or other dimension. I find that in this dimension all I find is problems and flaws, and I have many of those in this dimension. But funnily enough, if I just meditate and I use the breathwork that's indicated in or any of my meditations, I won't— um, I go to a place where there are no problems or flaws. So it's interesting, like, it's like people are always trying to fix stuff. It's like, well, there's a place where none of those things exist. So if you just know how to get there, then you're free as soon as you get there. And you're free when you come back because you kind of bring some of that good juice with you back to hell, you know, where we all— well, we all hang out.

Right now the reality is kind of hellish, but it could be worse.

Of course it could, yeah.

And I know you're coming up with a new album too, right?

Yes, Mercury.

And again, like I said before, I was just doing your open heart meditation. You have other meditations going on Instagram right now?

Yeah, Instagram's a good place to find my meditations. I've been doing some on IGTV, and I'm doing a lot of free giveaway Zoom type of things right now as well.

Fantastic, and I've gone to a couple of those. They were awesome. Oh, thank you. I love how you always incorporate movement.

Before.

Yeah, like, I work with a lot of teenagers, so I know that they have to move first. Um, and I'm just wondering why you always incorporate that kind of movement in your meditations.

Um, I just found that, you know, sitting still is a really beautiful practice, but it isn't available to everyone to be able to, to just like float right into that. If you're someone who's very antsy, lots of anxiety, lots of thinking, you're not going to be able to go from that to like a Zen Buddhist monk who's sitting for 50 years. So I think there's a very high expectation there, and it can be very, um, what's that word, you know, kind of like embarrassing for people. They're like, oh, I suck at meditation, because they're trying something that they're just like not familiar with. So I am that bridge in that, for me, um, I'm not asking people to do something they've never done before. I mean, I am, but I'm not asking them to do something that, um, that is completely impossible to them. I'm asking them to do something that's a little more radical, that's a little more alive, that's more, um, in like kind of inspire, inspirational, more emotional. And all of these things are generally not associated with meditation. When you think of meditation, you generally don't think radical, you don't think emotional, you think the opposite. You think calm and like indifferent and just like above it all, right? And I'm actually coming at it from the place of like, that's a bunch of bullshit. And I think that meditation is actually something that has to be first very emotional and very rooted in earth things and pain and suffering and and desire and yearning and shame and vulnerability. And if you can get through that aspect of meditation, then yes, eventually you will float in bliss. And especially if you do my meditations, like, that happens to be a side effect of some of the breathwork that I teach. So you'll get that right away, but you don't have to like become a Zen monk on day one, you know.

So your main idea is not to be judgmental while you're doing these exercises and to really, to let all of those sort of quote unquote bad feelings be there as well.

Is that what you're doing?

Yes, absolutely.

Let all of it be there and then move and flow. And, you know, for me, meditation is actually more like seeing your favorite film that you've ever seen or more akin to hearing your absolute favorite song you've ever heard or piece of music you've ever heard than it is sitting in some, like, terribly uncomfortable way for way too long and thinking about how you should be calm. That is not what it is. So I'm trying to give people a different way in to the same experience. And by the way, if someone wants to take the path of the monk or the, or the fakir, and they want to, like, sit in lotus pose for 12 hours a day, and they want to body scan for, like, 10 days at a time in the woods, have at it. I'm all for that stuff. It's just not the path that I took, and it's also not the path that I'm teaching. But for anyone who's out there and been like, I don't think that's for me, and I also like shopping, and I also like, you know, glitzy, gross, like I read People magazine when I'm on a plane kind of person, and it— or if you just like, I want to have sex and I want to date and I want to look hot and I'm, you know, Botox or whatever, and, and how does that associate with with spirituality, I am here to show people the way of that. I'm here to say you do not need to give up your materialism to find enlightenment. And I know I was lied to my whole life and told that I would. And so I'm very grateful that I found a path that allowed for a holistic approach rather than like this dogmatic, like, okay, now I will relinquish my personality self and be free, you know?

So you were told that you would have to relinquish things? To be spiritual.

Wasn't everyone taught that? No, I was told that the Buddha like sat under a tree for like 90 days or something, and I was like, didn't he get bored? You know, like, I was just kind of like, I don't want the whole story on this, you know?

Yeah, he did, but he definitely— he had to leave his whole family too.

Oh yeah, he lost everything. He lost all his money. And I mean, just like, I just am like interested to see, is there a path of enlightenment that doesn't involve Um, yeah, not, not leaving, right?

Not leaving our beautiful children. You're, you're a mom also.

Yeah. And also, like, you don't have to be hung on a cross just because you found enlightenment either. Like, there's this other story, like, I was always scared that if I found enlightenment, I'd get shot like Martin Luther King or John Lennon. Like, I would just be, like, killed, you know? I was like, I don't know if I want to find this thing. As soon as you find it, they fucking shoot you.

So I was looking at your cool event that you had at Harvard with meditation advisor Cassie Underwood at the Innovation Labs. And I saw— I love the name of it. It's called an Out of the Box Meditation Experience that I wish I could have gone there. Actually, my son is a sophomore there, so I do go up and do a lot of the lectures up there. And it's really awesome, even for the parents. So I'm sorry I missed that one, but—

You must be so proud. And also, how do you have a son that old and look that young? I'm very excited about that combination for you.

I am super old. No, I'm just kidding. This is— I'll send you the link, but this is like a foundation that has like 3 things in it. Amazing.

Send me the link.

Okay. So in this out-of-the-box meditation experience.

Yes.

Why did you call it that, out of the box? So you feel like anybody, even a novice, can sit for 2 hours with you perhaps and gain this sort of out-of-the-box experience and have that with them to take away?

Yeah, I think that experience wasn't 2 hours. It was like an hour-ish. But I think I've done— I've headed meditations at Vanaaru, I've headed meditations at Sundance Film Festival, headed meditations in a lot of environments where I really was pretty certain when I got into the room with hundreds of sort of debauched, hungover, teenage to young 20s people, some of whom were like covered in puke, others were like eating a burrito. I definitely was certain like, this is going to be the first time that I bomb. Right? But somehow, yes, by way of who I am and the way that I communicate, I was able to rise these people up from there, like, laying in their own vomit, and get them into this incredible ecstatic meditation experience. Everyone's like— hundreds of people with their arms in the air screaming and then holding each other in each other's arms and crying as they gazed, listening to my music. So yeah, I just Like, you know, some people have a gift with certain things. Like, my gift is being able to kind of trick people into a conscious state. And the reason I— I don't know.

Could I say that maybe you're not tricking them, but maybe I feel like, because I've seen your meditations and I've read your book, almost all of it, I'm not going to lie. I didn't read the whole thing.

That's cool.

Well, you read some.

That's amazing.

Definitely. I'm wondering if tricking is not the right word, but you're actually using all of the senses, which is what they always talk about to bring your brain into that sort of calm state where you use all of your senses. You're using music, you're using breath, you're using sound, you know, taste of vomit, maybe smell, smell of burritos. I don't know, but it's that.

At Bhangra at least, that was. Yeah.

I would love that, a burrito meditation. Actually, that sounds awesome to me. And that might be the way that you could get my son to meditate too.

I could definitely get your son into a burrito meditation. We'll have to schedule that. Yes.

But, um, do you— so do you feel like it's a certain kind of person then that you're aiming for? Or does it just happen to be because of your rock and roll past? Because you were, um, a singer, right?

I am a singer. I mean, I was like a— literally like just signed to Sony and I was like a drug adult, drug addict, DJ, fashionista, um, singer, rock and roller, all the things. Toured, traveled the country, um, shaved my head, all that shit. No, I don't think that I have a certain demographic. I have like just as many fans who are like older, um, or younger, like it spreads pretty wide.

Like you lost only the drug-addled part and you kept the rest, right? Because you're still rock and roll, kind of.

And yeah, I'm definitely rock and roll. I'm just not as like— I'm not trying to cover anything up. Like I used to use rock and roll to keep myself safe from you because I was so afraid that you may judge me or that you may like me or not like me. Today I use rock and roll as a language because rock and roll is a specific language. Like some people speak the language, like Clothing is a language, you know, when you say like, I— this is who I am, this is what I represent, and I am part of a specific clan. I think there's a lot to be said there. So to me, rock and roll is that, like, that is the tapestry that I use, that's my kabuki. But I'm not identified with it. In fact, I am gonna die one day and it's definitely not coming with me, and I'm fine to come back on any planet and in any dimension and any solar system or in any incarnation. Doesn't have to be like— I don't have to come back as Harry Dean Stanton, you know, but I would like to. If I could come back, I would like to come back as Harry Dean Stanton.

Well, I love this whole new take on meditation. And I want to ask you, like, so in this Out of the Box Meditation event, you had steps to relieve overwhelming emotions. I think we're all overwhelmed. Since we're in this time of COVID-19, and would you— do you have any tips on how to relieve, like, your overwhelming emotions at this time? I don't know how it's been affecting you personally. I know you're not in the age group that they're saying that it's affecting the most, but everybody seems to kind of be succumbing to it. It doesn't really matter right now, you know, it's almost like anything could be that. Yeah, you know, it's very uncertain right now in the medical field, so Just wondering if you have any tips on that, how you've been able to use your techniques.

For sure. I've often reflected back to a mantra, which is that overwhelm is a choice. So, I always have a choice as to whether I'm going to be overwhelmed or not be overwhelmed. And when I do feel overwhelmed, which happens, I have to remember that I'm actually not present. There's no way for me to be present and overwhelmed. That's not a possible combination. There is stuck in the past, meaning like I've reverted back to a childlike state where I'm in a state of horror. Do you know what I mean? Like, oh yes, I ever interacted with overwhelm, or the first time I ever interacted with fear, I was a kid. And so it's oftentimes when we get overwhelmed, we become hysterical because we revert back to the kind of the emotional apparatus of a child. And then we're like, I don't know how I will deal with this. And the truth is, is that as a 3-year-old, you didn't know how to deal with it. And so that's what you're kind of going back— you're going back to that initial sensation of overwhelm, and then you go back into the physical, um, kind of repercussions of that, which just reverberates in you forever. But as a meditator, you can actually stop it and say, this is actually not happening right now. That feeling— like, I— that feeling of overwhelm is triggered, a feeling of overwhelm from when I was 3, but that is currently not happening. And by using breathwork, or just breathing, you can bring yourself back to the present moment. The other way that overwhelm occurs for many of us is fear of the future. So we'll be afraid— so for instance, we may be afraid that an authoritarian government will emerge from all and we're all gonna like be prisoners and blah blah blah. Or like, you know, that there's so many, like, so many things.

Yeah.

Or like, everyone's gonna die, we'll never be able to leave our house ever again. You know, and as soon as you start thinking those kinds of thoughts, like, you're destined to start feeling overwhelmed. So again, noticing that overwhelm can only exist in the past or in the future, that only solution to come back to the present moment. So some tools that I use are breathwork, which I teach on my Instagram. Other tools I use are presencing exercises. So presencing exercises are phenomenal, a phenomenal meditation, which I can just explain to you really quickly right here. But using the senses, I sit for about 5 minutes and I just notice, and I say out loud what I am sensing. So I'll say, I see I see the book sitting on the counter. And then I'll pause and take a breath, and then I'll look and I'll see I feel my heart beating in my chest. And so on and so on until I'm really present to my surroundings, to the smells, to the sounds, to what my body is doing. And that tends to bring me back into the present moment as well. Another meditation tool that I'm about to release, actually, actually on my Instagram, is it called the tantrum, uh, temper tantrum meditation.

I like that.

And the temper tantrum meditation, super simple. You sit down in lotus pose, sort of.

My kids know my temper tantrum meditation very well.

Oh, we all have that. Okay, this is like, this is a concerted effort, right? So you sit down and then you kind of like tilt your head back and forth like meh, and you just are like, I don't like that I can't get a latte and I want to fly to LA and I want to finish my record and whatever. Like, you know, and I don't want to die from COVID I don't want to die and I want to get a latte and blah blah, you know, whatever is going on.

And I want to—

I don't want to— me me me me. So you just have a little temper tantrum and you just move your head like you would if you were having an actual a temper tantrum, like as a kid, and let yourself release the physical tension of that. That's also very helpful because I think a lot of us are very spiritually arrogant and we have this vision of ourselves that we're meant to be like haughty and like just grounded at all times. And we want to be like, I don't know, like we want to be Han Solo and we don't want to be C-3PO, you know what I mean? So this kind of moment, just allow this the inner C-3PO to have his day. Because I think if we don't allow that part of ourselves to be, then we can never really be Han Solo. You know what I mean? Generally speaking, we all want to look like Han Solo. None of us want to look like C-3PO.

And I want to just— I want to put it in context because I know for a fact that the last time we set up our interview and we had to reschedule that that you came home to your brand new home in LA.

I didn't come home. I was driving back from the Rockies. I was on Christmas vacation with my husband. My baby was in Denver, and we were driving back from this delicious vacation in the hot springs, and I get a text message from my— one of my best friends, and she says, "I think your house is on fire," and I'm like, I was like, no, that can't possibly be right. She's like, no, I'm pretty sure your house is on fire. I was like, what the fuck? So yeah, my house burnt down and that was January 2nd. And it was also the anniversary of my first daughter's death. So my first daughter, Ulla, died of sudden infant death syndrome when I was 26. And that day I was commemorating her life. I was like remembering that whole tragedy of losing her and how it felt. And all of a sudden I get this text saying that my house is burning down. So it was a really strange day. And then also later on I came to find out that everything in the house burnt to a crisp except for my belongings and all my sacred writing. And I had— it was a plastic box, okay, Juna? It was a plastic box. Plastic is not notorious for its, like, protection in fires, okay? It melts. Box, but it was sitting in the heart of the fire where the fire began.

Mm-hmm.

And it was untouched.

Wow.

It was a plastic box.

That's amazing. I saw, I saw those pictures. It was like your house burned down to cinders, basically.

Cinder. It was gone. Like all the art was gone, all the furniture gone, but the somehow the clothing, all my, all our clothing and like, well, we lost some stuff. Like we lost like this one area right where all my sacred writings were. Mm-hmm. All the stuff around that. Burnt except for the sacred writing.

Wow. So when you're, when you're standing there and you hear this and you understand that your house has burned down now, how do you process those emotions? Were you talking to yourself just the way we were talking now, saying, you know, come into your senses, take deep breaths? What was going through your mind?

I've already— this was the second time my house had burnt down in my life. You know, what are the chances of that? Uh, and neither time was I ever present for the fire, which is also very strange. Um, but I just feel like—

but did you feel gratitude? Like, did you feel gratitude that you weren't there, or did you feel like, I can't believe this happened to me again? Like, what was going through your mind, and how did you process?

Well, I felt shocked, and I felt very grateful, uh, that we were all alive, that we were not home. And I also I also just felt immediately tuned into the question of what is the gift in this for me? What is the universe trying to say to me right now? Because it was trying to say something. And I remember like I kept repeating that in my meditation saying, please show me what the gift is. And I'm doing the same thing with COVID Okay. What is the gift in this for all of us? Each one of us has a different gift. Gifts cannot be the same.

So let's go through that like step by step. You're sitting there meditating and then you, ask, once you calm down your senses or you become present to the moment, you start to open yourself up to what is— what does this mean for me? What is it telling me? Is that what you're processing with?

Yeah, what are you, what are you trying to tell me? Like, what are you trying to tell me? And because this is a very— it's a, it's a quickening, right? Like, what— whatever you were already on the path to learn, whoever you were already on the on the path to become, being quarantined in your house for maybe 3 months is the absolute most quickening form of taking whatever it is you were learning and putting a magnifying glass on it. To very, very surreal— I mean, very intense, right? Same thing with the fire. It's like it quickened what I was supposed to learn. And at that moment, my lesson was one thing, and at this moment, my lesson is something else.

But tell me what the moment what the lesson was at that moment and then what it is now for the burning of the house.

I think the burning of the house was like, um, a real tearing down of, um, this part of me that was very egoic. Not that I'm like done with ego or anything, but I just felt very strongly that I could not be inauthentic anymore. I had to be very authentic. Authentic, if that makes sense. Yes, because I've used a lot of inauthenticity to, um, to exist in the world. I felt like I had to, if that makes sense, like just to kind of make it through, because it's so, um, fake. The world is very fake, so I felt like I had to like turn on some fakeness to enter into the world. And it was something about that and things like that.

What You mean like with material goods and things like that?

No, even just personality. Like, I just would show up, um, with a bit of armor on. Like, I was just like— I was like, if I'm gonna go into the ring with these lunatics, aka humans, like, I'm gonna like wear some protective gear. I don't want them to fully see me, and I also don't want to touch them. Like, I just had a— I had some protective gear on.

Was this the first house or the second house or both?

The second. Oh, okay. And I was like, I'm just gonna— so I think it helped me to take my clothes off, uh, you know, metaphorically. Like, I just became naked. And I, I— and then I had just written my new record, and there was like this feeling of like, I don't know, something really shifted from that fire. I also feel like I was being primed for this intense pandemic. Not everyone had 2020 begin on January 2nd with their house burning down. I feel like, you know, like a little what do you call it, like a cushion.

Taste of what to come.

Yeah, like if I, like, if I, if on January 2nd I was all like, yeah, I'm getting a trip to like, you know, the Maldives this year, that would have been different than my house burning down because then I would have been like disappointed when the, when the pandemic came. But instead I was like, oh well, that's similar to what's already, you know, it's kind of like thematic.

Okay, cool. Now the whole world is burning down, kind of.

Yeah, it is.

All right, so going back to how you're dealing with all this and all of this so sober.

Yeah, sober.

You're so sober.

Stone cold.

Yeah, exactly. And I love it because I have to tell you, I'm day number 304.

What?

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't like an addict or an alcoholic. I was a lightweight and I would just have like a glass or two of wine, which most people might say, that's just normal. What are you talking about? But for me, it wasn't like I could just feel the drag on my body and my mind. So I stopped, you know, I said, forget it. I'm not doing this anymore. And so it's day 304 and I can't, I have to be honest with the COVID thing. I was like, could I use a glass of wine? You know, but honestly, I haven't had that thought once since. So I thought that a couple of times, but I'm just wondering how you lead this life of yours without anything. You don't drink, you don't smoke, right? So what do you do? Like Adam Ants used to say.

What do you do? Well, well, I definitely have had some demons over the years with using different things to comfort myself. For many years, since I was 12 years old, I used food and body dysmorphia, like kind of that blend of those two things. For anyone who's ever experienced that, it can be very euphoric to both try to control it and feel superior, and then release it and like eat an entire pizza and be like, ah, like, you know. I don't know if I've ever eaten an entire pizza, to be honest. My binging is so minimal that I think I hid under this, like, it's not really happening. But for the last few years, I've even worked on that quite intensely. It's been my primary focus. So I actually have, like, literally nothing. But I do, um, for me today, I get my bliss from what I call conscious suffering. And if you've read the book, maybe you read The Law of Conscious Suffering. Conscious suffering is actually intentionally suffering with the, with the intention of finding enlightenment. So I work out every day. I eat healthy food that my body asks for, and I try to be as present as I can for every bite that I eat. All of this, by the way, sounded excruciating to me when it was presented originally. Being healthy was excruciating. I meditate every day. I do weird, like, dancing meditation, tantrum meditation, screaming and anger meditations. I use all these resources, and then I read spiritual literature every day. I have conversations with brilliant people like yourself at least once a day.

Thank you.

All of this is ways that I get into this heightened state of bliss. And so it's interesting. It's taken many years to transform from someone who literally destroyed everything to get bliss, which, by the way, if anyone's listening to this, it works, right? So if it didn't work, that wouldn't— you know what I mean? But that's the easy like easy, lightweight way. And the payment for that is on the other side, right? You will get fat, you will get old, you will die younger, and you'll destroy your entire life. You'll probably be broke, and you'll probably destroy all your relationships, and you'll be miserable all the time, and you'll feel like you fucking lied to yourself. So if you want to go that route, like, I'm at it, you know what I mean? But it's like, I had to turn away from that because I knew that I I was lying. Like, I was, I was really lying to myself.

But yet you still had another layer, like you said, um, with this new house fire in January that you shed also.

Oh yeah, it never—

always working on yourself.

Yeah, it never ends. But today it's not like, um, I, I'm not under the delusion that I am getting better or that I'm perfect. I feel like I'm dragging this, like, disgusting, broken, lonely, angry, envious jealous, petty bitch around. She's like with me at all times, so I'm never— so it's not as surprising when, when I'm like, oh, the house burnt down.

Like, I'm gonna find you a little doll that looks like that. I want to send it to you, drag around like a fat Barbie. They need to have, you know, like, um, I sent one of my friends a voodoo doll once because her husband was cheating on her. So, but, but anyway, yeah, you can find those fun dolls. It was for fun, but she actually like it helped her.

I am the doll.

It didn't do anything to the woman though.

Oh, thank God.

But it helped her, my friend.

That's good.

But so, and also I know that you get a high from your beautiful baby daughter.

Oh my God.

Who is like, I see that love coming through all of your photos with her.

Oh my God, I'm insanely in love with her. Yeah, you know, you have to hide, right? It's insane. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing better. I never would have thought that I would like— would have liked being a mom, but it's great.

I, I think you more than like that, right?

I love it. I super love it, but I just never would— I would have taken myself as like a very masculine type who's like not into it, but Really? Okay.

So when you got through your sobering period, who helped you? Was it a moment where you said like, this, that's it, I'm done with this? What, what happened? Do you remember the moment?

Yeah, it's hard to forget. I remember it was— I've been sober 11 years, so it was 11 years ago. Ish. It was a year after my father passed away. It was kind of like one of the many deaths. It was the kind of the final nail in the coffin for me. And then I got— I decided I couldn't do another day of heroin. I couldn't not do another day. And I just— I got sober, and I did kind of whatever it took. So like, I, I took extreme measures. Like, I joined groups. I like, you know, and I, I— yeah, I'll just say that I got sober. I used resources around sobriety, free resources.

Free resources.

Free resources, yeah.

And do you still, um, use those free resources to stay sober, or do you like help other people to stay sober with the free resources?

I help, I help others to stay sober through free resources. And I, um, I also, you know, of course, like, to me there's nothing better than interacting with that dirty, dark, seedy part of myself. 'Cause again, like, I don't think anyone is getting away from this thing. So whatever stage of bullshit you're in and you're listening to this interview, and for you, right, like whatever stage of bullshit you're in, like, it's coming with us. So I think there's something very humbling about being able to really constantly interact with that bottom of ours. Whatever part of us is really weak, whatever part of us is really the Achilles heel, it's good to come into contact with that.

But to hold that in compassion?

Just to— no, to hold it in, like, um, gratitude. Because it's like a matter— like, it is your gift. It may seem like it's your burden because it's trying to kill you, but, um, if you see the murderer coming at you as your gift, you stop interacting with the world as a war and you start interacting with the world as a dance. And so it's like, my murderer comes at me And like, for me, my murderer for many years was food. Like, it would come at me and be like, now you have to numb this feeling with this pizza or this sandwich or whatever. And I would— I hated that feeling of powerlessness. Like, and I feel like, um, I just wanted it to end so badly. But one day I realized that, like, this crucifixion, like, it was coming at me with the nail and the cross, and it was like, I'm gonna put you up there And I realized that it just needed love. Yeah, it need— that part of me needed to be seen and be heard. It wasn't trying to kill me. Like, it seems like it's trying to kill you, but if you can just be with it, it's your greatest ally.

Mm-hmm. And, um, you started something called Club Soda a while back in New York City. This was before all the, um, sober bars were popping up and, and there's, um, all these groups now, right? Sober Curious groups?

Well, Sober Curious is my partner Ruby Warrington. Yeah, she wrote that book, right? Yeah, and her and I started Club Soda, and, you know, she's doing the Sober Curious clubs, which are beautiful and like a healthy way for people to learn healthy alternatives for alcohol and engagement and connection. So that's what we were doing there. And yes, I think the— all the non-alcoholic bars kind of sprung from what we were doing as well. So it was a really cool It was a really cool time.

I love that. I mean, the idea that sobriety can be fun and cool at the same time. Like, what would you tell people out there who feel like they have to have a drink to be social or to be cool or fun?

I would say you're lying to yourself. So now, not everyone is doing it the same way, but I believe that all of us have in us dreams, big, big dreams. And I have yet to see someone enter a bar and drink a bunch of alcohol and maybe have sex with someone they just met or whatever it is that happens after you drink and feel like, wow, you know what? I'm really on my way. Like, this is really what I— you know, that was the next step that I needed to get towards fulfilling my life's purpose.

What about those onesies that they have for moms? You know those onesies?

What onesies?

It says, my mommy drinks because I cry.

I've never seen that.

Another present for you.

Oh, that's so—

So what do you think about that, having been a new mom and all the stressors that come along with being a mom, you know, and having to stay sober? Does that even ring a bell in you or you just don't even think about it?

Oh no, I don't think about— I don't think about drinking at all.

Okay.

I haven't in many, many years. It's weird. It's like literally weird. Like you could be literally pounding shots in front of me and I would just It would be like as irrelevant to me as if you were like folding napkins. Like, I would just be like, that's okay. Like, I'm not interested in folding napkins. Like, she can do that. So that's kind of how it feels. But, um, yeah, again, you know, like, being a mom is, is a really great way to give up your life. Many mothers report that being a mother is like self-sacrifice, and it's the moment when they really gave up like being fully free. Like, you know, like, they didn't have that— like, their bod, they lost part of their— you don't get to keep exactly the bod you had before the babies. And like, then there's— it can be hot, but it's still like, you know, you had a baby. And then there's, there's the change of like, your sex life changes, your, you know, your house life changes, and your time changes. You can't like have as much freedom where like, now tonight I'm just gonna take off to Utah because I feel like it, because you have a kid, you know. So yeah, a lot of moms can get into a lot of self-pity around that and again use it as an excuse to not pursue their whole greatness. So like, again, you have the choice. You can be someone who's great and look to people who are great, such as Maya Angelou. Oh my gosh, huge.

I can't believe you just said that.

Why?

Because I know you have to go soon, so we're going to close up. But my last question to you today was starting with a Maya Angelou quote.

Whoa, I can't wait to hear which one. Which one is it?

So she says, I have written 11 books. 'But each time I think, uh-oh, they're going to find out now. I've run a game on everybody and they're going to find me out.' So that was her quote from when she was talking about her experience with imposter syndrome, which I was going to ask you about. Like, you have all these amazing lists of experiences and, you know, accomplishments. You're an author, you're, you know, cutting your second album. You have all of these credentials. And do you still have moments where you're like, oh man, who am I to be a spiritual guide? Like, do you have those doubts and sneaky thoughts coming up?

Yeah, I mean, it's not even like— to me, they're not sneaky anymore. And that's, I think, what the change was when the fire happened. It was like something unified in me. And I would actually say that, um, as opposed to what Maya Angelou says there, I feel very much like I have no idea how successful I will become in this life. I could die tomorrow, or perhaps I'll be as successful as Maya Angelou, which is, I mean, pretty much as successful as you can be, right? So which of those is happening for me, or something in between, or nothing at all? Like, I don't even know. But like, I think there was a part of me that was always like unsure of how great I was able to become in the 3D space, meaning like, would I be as famous as Shakespeare, or would I just be like some average Joe who like, with a couple of accomplishments punishments and blah blah, and like, that was forgotten pretty quickly and blah blah. Like, those kinds of thoughts would haunt me and make me like ugly cry sometimes. And then one day it just dawned on me that like, I don't fucking know, and I don't have to— like, I don't know the answer to that question, but I'm not gonna hide my face anymore from people. I'm not gonna hide the part of myself that afraid. And I think that was so relieving because I no longer felt this tension of what if they find me out. I'm just like, I'm gonna tell you, we're on a podcast, cool, let me tell you how terrified I am. And that my terror, as much as it is coming with me and it's with me every day and it's been with me since the time that I was a little girl, I'm not hiding it. And the energy that I save not hiding it and trying to make make sure no one knows about it has changed my life completely because that's a lot of energy that I was wasting.

And that was something that happened recently, you're saying?

Yeah, it happened.

That's amazing. So this uncertainty that we're living with now, mm-hmm, like, I mean, yeah, our odds are better of surviving than people with underlying diseases or, you know, people in their 80s, but we all have this uncertainty.

Yeah, but when did we not have that exactly? I'm just curious about like, why did COVID make people feel like less safe? Like, when were you ever safe? You weren't ever safe. Like, the moment you wake up every day, the chances of you dying are totally present. They've never been not present.

That's absolutely true. And I actually— now you're going to prompt me to look up statistics. So the pandemic thing is scary because, you know, it looks like nothing, it's everywhere, and we don't know. So that, that's, it's the unknowing, it's the uncertainty, it's the fear of the unknown. And every symptom, literally, and I've been talking to a lot of my physician friends, literally every symptom could be COVID. So, so we need to do a new meditation every day now, maybe just um, embracing what you're talking about, that uncertainty, and that it hasn't really changed.

Maybe, I don't know, it really hasn't changed. Like, our destiny is in our hands. And just like, um, who is that author who wrote the book In Auschwitz? There's a beautiful book that many people have been bringing up recently. I, I'm like a space cadet, so I'm just—

oh yeah, I know exactly exactly who you're talking about, and I quote him all the time. And right now I have a headache, which I think is COVID.

So yeah, it's COVID.

It's COVID. Um, Viktor Frankl.

Viktor Frankl. Yeah. So the, the truth is, is that a person has the power to persevere in a way that is transformative through any circumstances. So it is our choice to what level we're willing to reach joy, bliss, ecstasy, hope, faith on any given day. Those things are available to us under any circumstances.

And I also want to add that we have science on our side now. You know, with the ventilators, that's science. That's like advanced medicine saving lives. So, you know, and then can I ask you one last thing? I know you have to go. So what are you hoping for at the end of all of this? And hopefully there is an end, but Are there any hopes for you or in general in the world?

Yeah, I mean, I feel very strongly on an inner level that we are moving towards a shift. And so I think that we're moving towards a shift of feminine versus masculine energy. It seems obvious that it's been time and it's time. That shift has been coming and I feel like there's like a perfect example of like the last vestiges of like clamping onto this old way of holding on to power. I know Elizabeth Warren didn't make it, but she was my hope. Someone like, someone like her who actually cares about the people.

So you think there's going to be a feminine shift, and can you elaborate on that feminine shift?

I don't know exactly what that's going to look like, but I think it's going to be a level of respect, more respect for the planet, more respect for each other. And more respect for our spiritual and artistic natures. So maybe a Renaissance. And they did actually, you know, the Renaissance did follow the plague.

Well, I'm with you, and I hope that this is all going to come out for the better. And I just want to circle back to, you did not have like steps towards sobriety. You basically just one day woke up and had that thought like, I'm going to beat this No matter what, that pivotal moment, you had a pivotal moment.

I did. Yeah.

It wasn't like going on and off, on and off. You just boom, cold turkey.

The only thing I've ever been on and off with my entire life was flour and sugar and everything else I kicked literally instantly. And so it was really strange for me actually that the food thing took as long as it did.

Mm-hmm.

Because I was like, wait, I kicked heroin in one day and I like kicked drinking in one day. Like, What is this thing? So yeah, no, drinking was an instant moment of like, I was freed and never to think, never to think of it ever again. I mean, maybe the first year there were some pangs. After a year of doing spiritual work that transformed my life forever, I would never think of drinking ever again. The spiritual work that I've done around that has completely reconditioned my soul and my mind in a way that It doesn't seem appealing.

They always say it takes a village.

Yes.

Who are the people that you thank?

There's a long list of people that I would thank, so it would be a little bit long, but, you know, I feel like my friend Sherry has really helped me, my friend Peter, my husband Christophe really helped me along the way, my friend Caroline, Laura O'Reilly, Ron, who I started a school with. And then inside of like my, you know, my life is surrounded by, and I'm very critical about selecting people that get to go with me. So like everyone that's around me is the most incredible, high-level, piercing, beautiful humans. So I wouldn't be able to do any of this without any of them.

And your dad, of course, and your mom. But your dad taught you a lot, right?

Yeah, he did.

Okay, I'm sending you a virtual hug. It's so beautiful to see you here.

So good to see you, and I'll see you again soon. Let's find other ways to connect. Thank you for being who you are. You're so magical. Thank you.

You too. I'm— and I really mean it about your voice. I love it. Love, love, love.

Thank you. Can't wait. Can't wait for more. All the things. See you. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening. I want to remind you to share with your friends and family and download episodes. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts and leave a review. Your support is so important in keeping this podcast going, and I have amazing guests coming up. And you can ask me questions or them questions simply by emailing me at info@mindbodyspace.com. Or just subscribe to our newsletters by clicking the link in the show notes below. You'll be automatically entered into the raffle to win a copy of Biette's book, and you'll also have a chance to ask questions for our amazing upcoming guests. You'll also be the first to know about our awesome courses coming up to stress less, do more, and be happier for teens and adults. This is Dr. Juna Bobby MD wishing you all wellness until next time.