#132: Fast To Heal with Shana Hussin

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Hi, I'm Dr. Tabatha, the Gutsy Gynecologist. I'm a triple board-certified OB-GYN and functional medicine physician. I've embraced the world of functional medicine and wellness through my own personal health journey, and I'm super excited to share my wisdom and unique perspective as it pertains to women's health. After caring for thousands of women, I've come to realize that your gut health determines your gyn health and your overall And it's a super gutsy thing for me to go against conventional gynecology practice to bring you the truth. No more Band-Aid medicine, ladies. We're talking root cause resolution on this show. So if you're struggling with hormone imbalance, weight gain, period issues, anxiety, insomnia, you name it, then you've come to the right place. And I want to be your gutsy gynecologist. So welcome.

Hi, ladies.

So I'm really excited about this episode because we're going to talk more about intermittent fasting and why it should be a natural way of life for us. This is how we were created as humans. So I hope that you'll stay and listen to this whole episode. And remember, podcasts are amazing because you can pause them, you can stop them, you can come back to them at any time. And thinking of that, I'm wondering, have you gone back and listened all the way back to episode number 1? And have you listened to my 100+ episodes? Because even though they're quote unquote old, right, they've been out for a couple of years, the information is so important, all kinds of awesome, amazing information. So that's what I love about podcasts is you can literally go in, scroll back to episode 1, and binge listen, you know, from there. My other little trick that I do with podcasts is I listen on like 1.25x or even 1.5x for some podcasts because some people talk slower. I know I tend to talk a little bit slower. So if you want to get through me quicker and your brain can compute that quickly, crank me up to 1.4, 1.5, something like that. So that's how I binge through podcasts. And sometimes I listen to podcasts again. Like, I have certain episodes of podcasts where I'm like, I know that it It like gave me an aha moment. And I don't really remember the details. And I'll go back and I'll listen to it again months later. And it's amazing how it can sound like brand new information, even though I literally heard it a few months prior. It's because our brain is always searching for something different depending on our state of being and our situation that we're in. So we're only listening and cueing in for the things that our brain is looking for. And so it's pretty amazing that you can go back and listen to an episode that you've heard before and gain different knowledge, different insights, different ahas. It's so cool. I just love doing that. So consider doing that. Go back and listen if you haven't, or listen again if you were like, man, that really resonated with me and I don't really remember the details. Let me go back and Get that again. So this is going to be one of those episodes because, ladies, you should be doing intermittent fasting. And depending on your stage of your life or in your cycle, which we're going to talk about today, you're going to do different types of intermittent fasting or time-restricted eating. But really, this is how our bodies were created. This is how you burn your fat cells so you don't carry around extra weight. It's tapping into your fat to burn fuel. And the way to do that is with fasting. So there's a bad way to try and do fasting, and then there's a healthy, good way for women. And there's a way for women who are menopausal, who are perimenopausal, and who are cycling and have different, you know, issues like reproductive issues and stuff like that. So all of that does matter. And my guest today is going to hit on all of those. But if you want more details, you can read her book. The link is in the show notes, or you can check out her freebies, her opt-ins on her website, all that good stuff. She has a ton of information and I just think this is so important for all of us. So I love this episode. Let me just sing her praises really quick. Shanna Husson is a registered dietitian nutritionist. She's a metabolic health and weight-loss expert. She is host of the top-rated nutrition podcast, Fast to Heal Stories, where she helps listeners reverse their weight-loss resistance by teaching them a low-insulin lifestyle. Shanna uses intermittent fasting and timed eating, along with therapeutic carb restriction, as key strategy— strategies to achieve lifelong health. So after struggling with her own health issues, experiencing the failures of the conventional system and nutritional industries, Shanna developed various online programs and wrote her bestselling book, Fast to Heal, to help as many people as possible reverse their insulin resistance with her proven 5-step system. So we're going to talk about her 5 steps. She's going to, you know, talk about intermittent fasting for women specifically at different stages in our life. It's such a good episode. And, you know, she shares her personal story of her son's health issues and just so many golden nuggets in this episode. Like, I really want you to share this with everybody you know because this is for everybody. And I want to apologize ahead of time, I had COVID last week, so my voice still sounds terrible and I have a couple brain farts. I'm not gonna lie, during this episode where I completely forgot my train of thought and what I was gonna ask, so There, there's the key, ladies. Like, it doesn't have to be perfect. Just move forward and do stuff anyway, because there's still value in what you put out in the world. Things don't have to be perfect. Perfection, it equals procrastination, right? If I waited till I was totally healthy and I felt like my voice sounded perfect and my brain was functioning perfect, like, I probably would not put any podcast episodes out. And that's not doing anybody any favors. So the same goes for you ladies. Don't wait until something's perfect to share it with the world, whether that's your ideas, your art, you know, your feelings towards something. Like, share yourself with the world. You are a gift to your friends and your family and your coworkers and everybody you know. And so share that gift with People, people love you. They don't expect you to be perfect. They expect you to show up and be you. So that is what I'm doing today. I hope it's cool with you. So anyway, let's get on with the episode. Here we go. Well, welcome, Shannon, to the Gutsy Gynecologist Show.

Oh, thanks so much for having me. It's always a pleasure to talk with you.

Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation because I think so many women have thought about doing intermittent fasting, or they've tried it and failed, and it seems a little bit scary, you know? And I would just love to talk about how to approach it as a woman. But first, like, I would love to hear, how did you get into this? Because your story is really interesting. You know, you had this whole situation with your son's health and trying to figure him out and I have found that registered dietitians are still practicing like conventional medicine doctors. They're still practicing, you know, like low calorie, eat less, burn more fat. Like, let's talk about all of this today. Okay?

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack. I have to say, like, dietitians as a whole, if if I had to, like, you know, you don't want to generalize people, but they tend to be type A. They tend to be, you know, really persistent and, um, you know, like things more black and white than gray. So yeah, I, I've been a registered dietitian for over 20 years and, um, been in the field for a long time. And for most of that, I taught the conventional recommendations. And did not see a lot of progress with my patients and clients who I was working with. So that got very frustrating, but I do want to preface this with everybody knowing that I was very turned off by fasting at first. And I, every time I would hear about it on a podcast or from another health professional and holistic professionals that I very much respected, I would just tune it out and say, nope. Like, this, this cannot be healthy. I've been taught my entire life to eat when I got up in the morning and to start fueling immediately because we've gone so many hours without any fuel and you have to, you know, get that into your system and you, you have to fuel on carbohydrates. And so I had a lot of preconceived notions. And, um, although I feel like I, I'm a little more lenient and open-minded than a lot of dietitians, I am more type A as well. So it took me a while to come around and embrace some of the new thinking and the, the new strategies that are out there that really work more at the hormonal level than a caloric level. Um, but my backstory, I won't go all the way back, but, um, yeah, I always had a very strong interest in nutrition and being fit. And I came from a family who wasn't Very fit. And like, I wasn't one of those people blessed with amazing genes. Like, I always felt like I had to work pretty hard to stay at the level I was at. I was always very active. I was always interested in nutrition, but I, I thought about food constantly. I thought about, you know, whatever I was putting in my body, what's this going to do to me? What am I, you know, how's it going to show up on the scale? I wouldn't say I was ever like completely eating disordered, but I definitely dabbled in that, and it was kind of a fine line for a while. But yeah, I was practicing for about 10 years. I took 5 years off or so to have our 3 children, and so that kind of played a role too with stress and lack of sleep and a lot of things that kind of led to some medical issues that I was experiencing. experiencing. But about 10 years in, I thought, how, why is it when everybody's coming back to see me, their weight is up? If they're diabetic, they're on more medications. They're now having to talk with their endocrinologist about having insulin and they are exercising. And I worked in employee health for a long time and I could see people like taking walks at lunchtime and You know, obviously I wasn't following them around, but I could see what they were eating at lunchtime. I was, I was feeling like, why is everybody failing? Like, why is everybody coming back and not having any sort of progress despite doing what I'm telling them? And then I started to have self-doubts. Like, is it what I'm teaching? Is it, you know, is it something that's going on in the background? And then you, then you start to think your patients and clients, well, they must be closet eaters. They must be bingeing at night. They must be doing things they aren't telling me. And It's like you don't want to be like that as a practitioner, thinking the worst of people, but at the same time, they're not healing. So about 15 years in, my middle son, who's now 17, got very ill, just really out of the blue. One week started having very terrible diarrhea, and he was always healthy prior to that. All my kids, we were blessed with very healthy children, very Very little intervention with them other than well-child visits or, you know, colds and that sort of thing. So we really had no experience in the conventional system because as a family, none of us had any chronic issues. So months went by. He went through so many different tests and finally had a colonoscopy the day after he turned 11, which is terrible for an 11-year-old to put him through that. But he was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. About 3 months after all his symptoms started. And it was just a battle for 3 years. He was very, very ill. We did the conventional route because we didn't know any better. He was prescribed like a really terrible— well, they called it low inflammation, low residue diet, but it was all the crappy carbohydrates that like white bread, white pasta, white cereal.

Oh gosh.

That's the sheet. They gave us a sheet of paper and said, let's do this because they are low residue canned vegetables, nothing whole, nothing fresh, nothing raw. Meats were on there, but no nuts, no, no, nothing, nothing fresh. And so I looked at this and I'm like, what the hell?

Like, how?

You know, it's like, I don't know a ton about inflammatory bowel disease because it's not where I specialize as a dietitian. But I know this is not helpful.

Right, right.

This is inflammatory foods full of chemicals. So I kind of threw that sheet in the garbage and I started to do my own research. And we tried a lot of things that failed him. And he was, like I said, he was very ill for a long time. But it really opened my eyes to the holistic and natural side of not only nutrition, but so many other things and with healing the body. And I'm telling you, like, I went down every rabbit hole there was to go down in those years. Like, I I researched nutrition and we totally got him off of anything that was processed or had chemicals. And we focused more on protein. We focused on vegetables, the vegetables he could tolerate. We just focused on whole nutrition and not, you know, making food at home. And we were pretty healthy eaters to begin with, but we really dialed it in. I was looking at vaccinations. I was looking at glyphosate and water. I was Looking at any chemical. I was looking at heavy metals. I— we did some heavy metal detox, like anything to help him keep his colon, because there were times where he would flare so bad they were talking to us about removing his colon at 12 years old. And ultimately, I had to go out of the conventional system and seek assistance from an Australian team of doctors that would actually listen to what his symptoms were, and they had a completely different approach, and they treated his, his colitis as an infection rather than an autoimmune disorder. And he was healed within weeks of working with them, and he still is healed today. Like, he's, you know, he's been completely symptom-free for about 2 and a half years at this point, and it's like it doesn't exist anymore. But, but During that time, I actually stopped working as a dietitian because I was just, I started to get really appalled at where the guidelines were coming from and how they were actually making people sicker and fatter. Um, unbeknownst to most dietitians, it's not like the dietitians were setting out to teach people that we're going to make them sick and fat, but just looking at The food served to patients while in the hospital is absolutely appalling. It's about 300 grams of carbohydrate over the course of the day. Lots of processed food, very little protein, crappy fats that are completely inflammatory. I mean, it was just— it is disgusting.

And so you hit on so many important points. And I just want to say, like, thank goodness that your son has you because you changed the course of his life. He could have lost his colon. And that's really amazing that you didn't give up and you didn't just accept the standard recommendation because you knew it didn't make sense. You know, I think that's a really important point for my listeners is like, if it doesn't sit well with you and make sense, like, you need to stop and search out somebody else. Keep looking, keep researching, because if it doesn't sit well with you and make sense, it probably isn't how it's supposed to be. And, you know, you're right on that the food and drug industry drive all of these recommendations that physicians and dietitians and everybody else, the American Diabetes Association, like all of these people are recommending stuff based on political decisions. They are not health decisions. Those Those white foods, those are the most toxic foods that we can possibly be feeding our children. And oh my gosh, that's what they're telling you to save his colon is to eat that. Like, that's just heartbreaking to me. So, right.

And here I was, a dietitian trained, and you're just— I think the worst part of going through the whole conventional system is not being listened to and then making You're made to feel crazy for wanting something else and wanting to get to the root cause. It's like, well, no, I don't want my kid on these biologics that are classified as a chemotherapy when he's 13, growing. And I just— No, I'm not going to go there. And then, yeah, you look like a crazed person. And then you go back with any kind of alternative treatment and they won't support it because it's not part of their Um, you know, whatever they—

Regimen. Yeah, exactly. And those biologics are so dangerous. They're literally shutting down your immune system so you can't respond to anything, you know. And then you're more prone to really bad illnesses and cancer and things like that. Like, what parent wants to sign their kid up for that, let alone themselves? So good for you. I'm glad that you figured that out. So here you are, registered dietitian, And you're telling people to eat less calories and to burn more calories and, like, everything you're doing doesn't make sense. And so you finally stumble on intermittent fasting. And I tell people, like, to me, intermittent fasting is the way God created us. That's our innate intelligence. We didn't grow up with grocery stores on every corner, right? Like—

Exactly.

Our bodies were actually made to go In times of famine and then feast and then famine. So I would love for you to just talk about, like, you really were resistant. I think a lot of people listening are probably feeling the same way. What changed your mind? What opened your eyes to the possibility that maybe intermittent fasting is a healing process? Yeah.

So after I did all the research with my son and got him healed, I I started to— I listened to so many health professionals on podcasts and interviews and YouTube. I mean, when you have a kid who's ill, you'll do anything to get them well. You have to advocate for them because they're too young. So, yes, I started to hear very respected people. So I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to try it on me. N equals 1 and see, because I had very bad bloating, like for a good 10 years. Like I would be completely bloated by lunchtime with everything that I was eating. Um, I wasn't, I was a very early morning person, so I would get up and, you know, a lot of, I was a long-distance runner. So I'm like, I have to fuel my body before my run. You know, I can't, I can't, you know, that's what you're told. You have to have carbs. So I'd eat like a banana and a string cheese at like 5 in the morning before I go on my run. And I was a healthy eater, but I would oftentimes— I wasn't a big night eater because I would, you know, early morning people go to bed early too. But I would, you know, sometimes eat at nighttime and then I would eat at 5 in the morning again and I would just be eating all day. So I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go to like 9. And that was a stretch for me. Like for me to not eat until 9 o'clock in the morning, it was hard.

So Yeah.

I mean, I get it when people say like, I get shaky if I go the morning. Like, that was me because I was a sugar burner. Like, my body wasn't used to fueling on fat because I was eating all the time. So I just slowly transitioned. And I remember clearly the day that I went till noon. Like, I went to church at 10:30, came out. And so I couldn't get home until noon. And I'm like, what was the big deal? Like, that was no big deal. I feel great. I feel better than if I would have eaten all morning. So I just started to put it, you know, slowly do it on myself. And then I, I was so excited about the possibilities. And of course, I read The Obesity Code like most people do and got their mind open. And I started to read more books on fasting. And then I put together just a really small group of people, 20 people, to just just, you know, guide them through the process and take some before measurements, take some before, like we did blood pressure and measurements and then after. And the results were amazing. And the people that I was working with, they were like anywhere, there was, I think one girl in their 20s, but they were up to like their 60s. I had a lady in her 70s and they had struggled with their weight their entire life. Like for decades. So I didn't, I did not expect much to happen from this, but all of them saw amazing results if they implemented. And we were doing like 16 to 18 hours of fasting. We weren't doing these long extended fasts and we were concentrating on eating whole food. Like I didn't even really like give them a hard carbohydrate restriction or anything. We just said, eat, eat whole foods, focus on 2 meals most days. And see what happens. And I think one guy, we did it for 12 weeks. He lost like 32 pounds. Another woman halfway through told me how she'd recovered from her binge eating disorder. She was like in her 60s. She had grandchildren and she'd recovered from her binge eating disorder within 6 weeks, just from having like a hard stop time from eating. And she told me, she's like, I've been to ClosetEaser even in eaten after, you know, my husband went to bed for years, like, and I don't do that anymore and I feel amazing. And so I'm like, there's something to this. So I just started to make some handouts and decided to start an online, you know, some online nutritional guidance. And I'm like, you know what, if I'm going to write all these handouts out, I might as well just put it in a book form and make it into a process and write my story in it. So I wrote my book Fast to Heal, which was published in March of 2020, right when COVID was— Shutting everything down. But that lays out a process for people to follow. And yeah, that's how everything started. And I've just continued to really study it and to study the nutrition therapy around it that really helps to heal metabolic issues and weight-loss resistance. So that's how I started with fasting myself.

Good for you. That's so awesome. I love when, you know, people have their pain-to-purpose story that they take What seems to be a horrible situation and they make something amazing and beautiful out of it. So that's really awesome. And I, you know, you mentioned a few things. You mentioned about people being hangry and not being able to handle the fast and how you were eating, quote-unquote, healthy because it was a banana or a yogurt or a cheese stick or things like that. I would love for you to talk a little bit about what is going on with being a sugar burner and women losing that metabolic flexibility, that ability to even burn fat for fuel? Because I don't think people realize how eating often shifts your metabolism like that.

Yeah, the metabolic flexibility is something I really focus on in my programs and when I educate people because it's so important. And if you look at children, Most of them are still metabolically flexible. Most of them, there are definitely some with blood sugar issues, but we're born to, you know, eat at certain times and not eat at certain times. And we just manipulate that over the course of time by telling our children, you know, you have to have a snack. You have to eat here. It's like, I tell my kids all the time, like, we never took snacks to school. We didn't even take water. Oh my gosh.

My kids are required to have like 2 snacks plus their water bottle and then their meals. I'm like, where are you going? What's happening?

I know it is insanity. And I don't think I left this part out of the story. But when I left the conventional system because I couldn't teach there anymore, I didn't know what to do with myself and I didn't know if I wanted to go back into the nutrition industry. So I substitute taught for 3 years in my kids' schools because they were in school. You know, I, I'm a worker. Like, I like to get up. and have something to do. So I'm like, I'm just going to be a substitute teacher. And holy— oh man, that opened my eyes. It is crazy. And it's appalling what kids are eating. Like, kids would bring a sleeve of Ritz crackers for a snack. And yeah, but they're eating— they have a lot of times they can eat breakfast when they get there, which is processed junk. And then at snack time, 2 hours later, then they're going to lunch and eating more processed junk. And then they can choose to have an afternoon snack and then they go home and eat. It's just—

Yeah. literally eating sugar every couple hours.

Yeah.

And like, where my daughter goes to school, they're not even offered water. It's required that you get milk with your lunch. And I'm like, she cannot have milk. This is unacceptable. And they make her feel like an outcast because of it. And it's like, milk is not even healthy, people. Like, open your eyes to the 21st century. So I'm sure you were like, Very appalling and just eye-opening.

The breakfast tub would come and not everybody would eat breakfast there. Some kids would and some kids wouldn't, but it was offered for free for everybody. And the breakfast tub would come and I would just cringe. I'm like, I don't want to give this to anybody. It would be like, like a little packaged cereal and canned fruit and then a sugary yogurt. There was nothing. There was very little protein. And I'm like, it'd be one thing if we were handing out beef sticks And maybe like a string cheese if it's tolerated, but we're not like it, or, oh, or a huge muffin. And then a couple hours later, the behavioral issues set in and it's like, yes, 8 equals 8, people. Oh my gosh. Um, yeah. So sorry not to go off on a tangent, but, but we're setting kids up to not be metabolically flexible because like you were saying, they're eating every couple of hours. So even if, you know, they're not hungry, of course, if those kinds of foods are set in front of them, they're going to want to eat them. So we lose that metabolic flexibility as we get older. And what that is, is being able to transition from being a sugar burner, burning glucose, to burning ketones or fat, because we have 2 fueling systems as humans, and both can work very, very efficiently. And I'm not one of these people who thinks we should be in ketosis all the time and always burning ketones and peeing on sticks. And oh my gosh, my level of ketones is too high because we should be able to burn carbohydrate as well. And we should be able to flex back and forth. But so many people are stuck in that sugar-burning metabolic system of burning glucose all the time, because your body will fuel on glucose. If it's there, it'll fuel on glycogen stores if they're there. So if you're constantly eating, you're constantly eating a lot of carbohydrate, your body's just going to burn that because it's so much easier to burn. And your body's never going to look at your fat reserves or focus on burning fat metabolism because it's not as easy as burning glucose metabolism. So there's just these people who— and I was one of them. And if you kind of know if you're a sugar burner, You can't go more than 3 or 4 hours without food. You get shaky, you get hangry, you get ticked off. You can't focus on anything other than eating.

Right.

Your brain telling your adrenals like, oh, blood sugar is falling. I've got to get carbohydrate and I'm going to distract this person until I get them because you aren't able to break over to you know, transition over to burning the ketones and burning fat for fuel. And then, you know, the person just starts to feel dizzy and lightheaded and, um, and blood sugar crashes. And then they eat more carbohydrates. Your body's like, oh, thank God. And the, and the whole cycle just repeats and repeats over the course of the day. And so many people live like that all day, every day, and wonder why they can't lose weight. And, um, one of the most frustrating things is Following a low-calorie approach or diet, if we want to call it a diet, that's healthy food and getting exercise, but still not losing weight because you're just never burning fat or you're very, you know, your, your fat metabolism is very inefficient. So hopefully that answers that question about metabolic flexibility and how important it is to be able to transition from one to the other. Um, but you know, you probably mentioned this on your podcast before COVID a big study was done showing that 88% of people are inefficient at being metabolically flexible. And they're somewhere along the line, their metabolism is broken, if you will. Um, and they just can't go back and forth from burning carb to burning fat. And it's probably worse now that we've had COVID. I mean, I would say less than 10% of people are metabolically flexible and metabolically healthy at this point. So it's a huge problem.

It is. And I don't want women to beat themselves up because it's actually something that was ingrained into us. We were brainwashed by the breakfast cereal companies and the snacking industry. You know, they have trained us to start our day with a very high sugary carbohydrate diet, and carbohydrates just get metabolized into sugar. It's just complex sugar. And so you're starting the day out with the sugar, and then we're told to snack every couple of hours to maintain our blood sugar, to keep our blood sugar balanced. And that was— those were all lies. That is not actually how our body thrives. And so we have to wake up to the fact that we've been You know, sold a bunch of lies and we need to go back to how our body is innately created to function. And so you— it can take a little bit of time to get back into that metabolic flexibility. That's what I see all the time with my women is you've got to take baby steps. You can't just jump into a 16-hour fast or you get hangry and feel like crap. You have to remind your body how to— Burn ketones for fuel. And so I think the keto diet can be very helpful during that transition when you're trying to remind your body how to burn fat for fuel. But where I see a lot of women fail, you probably see this too, is they get on this super keto kick and they're eating all the keto snacks to, quote-unquote, burn ketones, but all you're doing is burning more food that you're taking in and you're never actually burning your own fat into ketones. And so, no, you don't lose weight. Or they do it in a half-assed way, like they do it for a day or two and then they're back to the carbs, and then they do it for a day or two and they're back to the carbs. So literally, you are never tapping into your fat stores and you're never going to make any progress. Would you say you see that a lot of times too?

All the time. And the biggest frustration on the ketogenic diet or the paleo diet is people measure their ketones. They're like, I'm in ketosis, but I'm not losing weight. It's like, okay, but yeah, you're burning the fat, the fat in your bloodstream that you're eating or that you're drinking in your coffee or the fat from yourself, like your body. And I, so on my Instagram page and like, I always try to bring the bodies prioritizing fueling systems and like make sure people are understanding that there's a priority sequence of the fuels that you burn. At the very top is alcohol. So your body will work to get rid of that above anything else. So if you have alcohol in your system, it's going to shut off fat burning. It's going to shut off carb burning.

Yep.

You know, it's going to burn that off first because it's a toxin. So these people who We've kind of gotten into this mommy wine culture where we're having wine every night. Not only is it messing with your sleep, but it's shutting off fat burning. And then after that, people sometimes will take exogenous ketones, which are—

Right.

From the bottle. It's like, that's priority number 2. Your body's going to burn those. It's like there's a time and a place for those. I think in a couple of small circumstances, like if you want to be really mentally sharp or— but I don't recommend those to my clients in general who are trying to you know, mend a broken metabolic system. Um, and then is, is carbohydrate and then stored carbohydrates and then fat in the bloodstream and then your body fat that's stored. So you have to go through all of those things first, all the storage form of carbs, you know, carbohydrate and then fat in your bloodstream. So yeah, you're so right. People get, and, and don't get me wrong, I love the ketogenic diet to help people get fat adapted. Like you said, that That's step number one for when I work with clients. Before you even start fasting, let's get your body more fat adapted, get you ready to go longer periods of time without eating, and then we add in the fasts. But yeah, if you have all of those things, your body will not burn its body fat. It's basically its last resort of energy. And that's where the intermittent fasting and the timed eating comes in. So you can actually get to the point of burning body fat. But there's a lot of misunderstanding and we've kind of, you know, the ketogenic diet is very popular for good reason. Like I said, I'm a big fan of the ketogenic diet, especially along with intermittent fasting. Um, but you can, you can do it in a way that's not going to bring you as much benefit, especially with weight loss, if you're not doing it in a way that makes sense for you to get to that fat burning.

Yeah, well, I love that pyramid approach. I think that makes a lot of sense for women to just realize, like, what they have to burn through to get to their fat stores.

Yes.

So if you want to lose weight, you've got to get through all that other crap first. So you talk about the 5 steps in your book, like, how do you get to this? So I want you to, you know, give my listeners some golden nuggets. Give me some juicy ones.

Yeah. So the, my book's called Fast to Heal. And, um, the subtitle is Reversing Insulin and Finding Nutritional PEACE, or a 5-step process to do that. And the PEACE is an acronym. Um, so the P stands for prepare your body and that, that's the 5-step process. And that's just the things we were talking about, getting the crap out of your diet, getting your body ready nutritionally. A lot of times practitioners like to teach fasting first, like, let's just get you started with fasting. But I think it works a lot better for most people to get themselves fat adapted and get their nutrition more sound.

Yes.

And in that process, we also cut out snacking and go to 3 square meals a day. Because a lot of people freak out with the no breakfast thing. It's like, okay, well, let's just get you onto 3 square meals, get rid of the snacks, Get rid of sugary drinks in between and clean up your nutrition. Um, and so that's step number 1. And, you know, I usually recommend like a couple of weeks for each, each step. And then E is for extending fasts and just, you know, starting with 12 hours, go to 14 hours, go to 16 hours. And then once you get used to that, some people need the therapeutic level of fasting, which would be Like a 36 to 42-hour fast a couple of times a week. And I know people are like, oh my gosh, like that? No way. And that's more of, like I said, the therapeutic approach where you're really trying to reverse a disease process, insulin resistance. But fasting gets so much easier the more you do it. It's like training for a marathon.

Yeah, exactly.

You start out small and then, you know, you just, you see what is needed for you. Like, I don't do a lot of extended fasting. I do it maybe Quarterly, just as kind of a reboot and a clean out. But I have no metabolic disease and I'm not looking to lose weight. So approaches are a little bit different and that's all outlined in my book. And then A is for alter nutrition. So that is going back and saying what is working and what's not working. I really focus, especially women, on prioritizing protein intake at each meal. Most women need about 100 grams of protein over the course of the day. And if we look at it, most are getting more like 50. So very, um, a lot less than what is necessary. And a lot of women especially. And what that, what that's going to look like is being hungry and not being satiated. Um, and if you're not getting enough fat, you're going to be hungry. Sooner than if you would have eaten some fat in your meals. So we just go back and look at that nutrition. What can I do? You know, is there something that needs to be changed? We look at, you know, more of a deep dive. Is there something that I'm eating that might be causing inflammation that's setting me back? You know, food sensitivities, different eating schedules, that sort of thing. And I'm not the person that's like, okay, you can't eat till noon every single day. It's like, you do what works for you. And if you like a A fasting schedule of 10 to 4 or, you know, 11 to 3, then that works for you. You don't always have to wait till noon to eat. It just works a lot better for many people. And then the C stands for clean, challenge, and change. So there we talk about, you know, are you clean fasting? If it doesn't seem to be working for you, are you clean fasting? Are you doing some things during your fasting time that might be setting you back or not seeing the progress that that you want to see. And then we talk about adding challenge days in, like one at a time, like maybe stretching yourselves to a 24-hour fast after you've been at it for a couple of months. As you know, just as it's not only a GI reset, but a 24-hour fast can do amazing things as kind of a reboot. So we look at challenge days and then changing things up. Like if something's not working for you, don't sit there for another 6 weeks and like either white-knuckle it or think, oh, I just got to do it. You know, I'm not like, if it's not working, then you need to change things and, and find something that does work because fasting will work for just about anybody. It's just finding what's tolerable for you and works in your lifestyle. And, um, looking at your medical history, your activity level, and, you know, what you need to do to see progress. Because sometimes people will do a 16:8 and see no progress weight-wise. You know, they'll, they'll see some progress. They're like, I'm not losing weight on this. It's like, well, that's a maintenance schedule for most people, a 16 or an 18-hour daily fast maintenance.

Right.

You're not going to see a whole lot of weight loss on that. So we need to change some things up at least a couple of days a week where you are going to see some weight loss. Because remember how we just talked about how you have to burn through so many things, um, before you get to that stored body fat. Um, so that's what we talk about in, in that step. And then E is for ease your mind. And that is just looking at all of the other factors beyond nutrition and fasting, sleep, stress, all those foundational things that Um, might not be locked in and serving you well. Like you, you have to make sure that those foundational pieces are in place in order to fast well. You know, you can't fast well if you're sleep deprived, you can't fast well if you're stressed out.

Mm-hmm.

Cortisol levels are too high. And if you're doing that every single day, it's just, you're basically just is defeating the whole purpose of adding a fast in because it's going to be difficult. You might stress your body even more. So locking all of those things in, that's what the 5th step is. So it just goes through that whole process and explaining the science behind it too, so that you're understanding. Because I think one of the worst things is like, okay, I'm just going to start fasting today. Understand why you just think it's, oh, I'm just starving. I'm cutting calories. Like, no, like there's The whole scientific process behind it.

Exactly. Yeah, I've done a lot of diets the bad way. Like, I remember doing the keto diet and I would go to McDonald's and just eat the burger and not the bun, and I thought I was being healthy. And then I started, I'm like, I'll just do intermittent fasting. Let me go, you know, 20 hours or whatever. And it was a disaster. And like you said, It's a practice and your body gets better at it as it gets reminded of its metabolic flexibility, and it's really important to work yourself up to it. So I love all the things that you're mentioning. You really do need to pay attention to the amount of stress because that will sabotage you every time. You know, it's really common for us to eat when we're stressed or to drink alcohol to relieve our stress, all those things. So Your book sounds amazing, like really helpful to just get your, your mind and all everything in line for you to be able to do this. So that's really awesome. One thing I also wanted you to talk about was you mentioned carb cycling. I would love for you to talk a little bit more about that because what I have come to understand is, as soon as we restrict our calories, restrict our eating overall, our body tends to think we're in starvation mode. It wants to protect us and it will turn down our metabolism. You know, that's what we saw on The Biggest Loser, right? Like, people would lose huge amounts of weight and then they would be done with it and try to live their life and their metabolisms were turned down so far that they gained it all back. So— I think being metabolically flexible is important. Cycling in some carbohydrates so that you're going in and out of ketosis is important. Wouldn't you agree?

For sure. And The Biggest Loser is one of the biggest failures, I think, for people. And there's studies to prove it because, yes, they were just dialing down the metabolic rate so much. So that's where intermittent fasting is different because You're letting your body tap into the body fat fueling system so that it doesn't think that it's starving, but the refueling is critical. And I think that's where a lot of women, especially again, tend to mess up because they're so ingrained in the diet culture and, um, counting calories. So I don't have my clients count calories. I do have them look at some macronutrients. Um, like I said, prioritizing the protein first, And then helping them find a carbohydrate range that's appropriate for them, at least to start with. And that can be hard because carbs are tricky. And I actually developed a carb quiz for people on my website, fasttoheal.info/carbquiz. And you can go— which is a 7-question quiz that takes into account your activity level, your family history, your medical history, where you can get some guidelines, some guidance on where to start carbohydrate. And I recommend carbohydrates like anywhere from 25 to about 100 grams per day, depending on the person and their activity level. I don't think a lot of people need to be above 100. It's just, that's considered a low-carb diet, but we're eating like 3 to 400 as a society right now. So, oh yeah, way too many. And that's how our metabolic systems get broken. Um, but the carb cycling I do teach, there's, there's a section in my book for this as well, but I teach it inside my programs and I teach it for women who are still menstruating because you can get yourself into trouble, um, with, with depleting calories, but also depleting nutrients too low. And then that's why I really focus on prioritizing protein and adding in some natural fats to every single meal that you eat, because we need those to build sex hormones. We need them to build neurotransmitters and we need them to build our, build our cell structures. We need cholesterol. And people don't think that, but it's like the basic building block for every single cell, saturated fat as well. Um, so with the carb cycling, Um, I try to— it can— people can get tricked up on this and it, it does get a little tricky. Um, but your listeners are probably more cued into this because they're, they, um, you know, know more about premenopause or perimenopause and menopause and, and their fluctuating hormones. But, um, like day 1 is your bleed and that's, you know, where you start to actually have higher energy and feel great. And fasting can be a little bit easier because you're more insulin sensitive at that point. So it all has to come back with insulin. Like if insulin's running high and you're not insulin sensitive, you tend to be hungry a lot and you're just storing energy all the time. So that's the whole point behind intermittent fasting is to bring that insulin level down and keep it quiet a lot of the day. So you're not driving hunger. Um, but those first 2 weeks is where if people want to try some extended fasting and do those challenge days, that's where I suggest it. Um, when the estrogen is higher and when they're just starting their cycle up until about ovulation, and then it gets a little bit harder to do longer fasts. And so I teach women the week prior to your cycle to do some healthy carbohydrate cycling just to support the progesterone production. And there's a lot of people who go back and forth with this, like, oh, we don't need the carbohydrates. We don't need, we don't need it for thyroid. We don't need it. But I'm like, like I said, I teach low carb. I don't teach no carb. I think there's a time and place, and this is a great time to do that flexing that I was talking about, where you can flex up and you are burning a little bit more carbohydrate. Maybe you're not burning ketones quite as much that week, but then after the cycle's done and your bleed is, um, you know, you're done with your cycle that week prior to your period.

Eat—

I suggest about 25 to 50 more grams of carbohydrate that week. So it's not like we're going back to 300 and eating cake and ice cream. Like we're cycling in some healthier carbohydrates, like some fruits and some sweet potatoes and some good food carbohydrates that week, that when it's harder to fast and to support the progesterone. production, and then you can back off. And it is easier to fast once your period starts and into a couple of days into, into your period. Um, so that's how I teach it for cycling women. And then menopausal women don't need to worry about it quite as much. And so if they want to do some carb flexing, I say, well, just pick a week out of the month, like maybe the week you're on vacation, do some carb cycling that day. Or if you want to do it weekly, and this would work for men too, if they want to do some carb-up days, like Like, maybe on a Saturday you want to do a carb-up. Just be careful not to, you know, eat a whole bag of cookies or whatever.

Yeah, I think that's the key is like, what carbs are you eating? You know, if you are wasting all your carbohydrates on bread or some cheap pasta or something like that, like, no, that's not healthy. That stuff is inflammatory. It's full of pesticides. It's genetically modified. Your body doesn't even recognize it to digest it, you know? So it really does matter what kind of carbohydrates you're eating. And I think if you focus on the fruits and the vegetables, those are carbohydrates, then you're going to be good. You know, your body is going to love that and still feel amazing. So I love how you approach all of this. I think that's—

Thank you.

It's really key. And it's key for women who are cycling to realize there's a time and a place for all of this, depending on their cycle. So women who are dealing with fertility issues, trying to—

Yes. And you're so stressed and worried, you're making it worse.

Yes, exactly.

A lot of people, like, inside my— I have a membership program. I have an insight, like podcast, I'll say like, oh, I'm going to do a Q&A. They're always asking about fruit. Like, can I have fruit? And I think that's one of the most confusing things too, is like people think I'm ketogenic, I can't eat fruit.

Right.

And so I don't eat a lot of fruit. I eat maybe a serving a day. It's not like I go overboard. And you do want to be careful with the fructose that's in fruit. And I never have fruit juice and I don't recommend that either because That's completely different than eating a piece of fruit. But, you know, eat a piece of fruit a day if it works for you. And people are like, well, what about bananas and watermelon? Like, I'm like, well, I don't eat a lot of bananas, but I will eat them once in a while. And the best thing for you to do is to wear a continuous glucose monitor if that's feasible for you. And that's a whole nother podcast.

Yeah.

But it will give you biofeedback for your personal body. Like, my personal body works well with a piece of fruit every day. If you're very, very ill and still recovering, maybe we want to scale back or just stick to berries that are, you know, have less of an insulin effect for most people. But you need to have that mindset of, oh, no fruit.

Yeah. I'll tell you, fruit is what got me off of my sugar addiction. Like, literally, I used to have, you know, 2 donuts every morning, the creamer in my coffee, and then it was just like, sugar for the rest of the day, you know?

Yeah.

At lunch, potato chips, which are also full of sugar, and just white bread, you know, sandwiches, all these things. And I literally ate so many strawberries and blueberries and blackberries to get off of my donut addiction. That is how I transitioned. And I don't know how else I could have done it at the time because I was really still stressed out and sleep deprived working as an obstetrician.

Wow.

But fruit was my saving grace. And it was funny because it didn't taste that sweet in the beginning because I was used to like donuts full of frosting and, you know, Long Johns with filling inside them. And then I transitioned to fruit. But after about a month, like, the fruit got a lot sweeter and I didn't want as much of it. And my body finally was back to normal. I didn't have all the yeast inside my body craving that sugar. And so, you know, as your gut microbiome shifts and your gut gets healed, you'll no longer have those cravings and you won't want it. Your body will know what it needs. But I still say, you know, fruit has fiber in it, just like vegetables do, and that you get to subtract those carbohydrates. So it does matter. Like you said, there's a huge difference between juice and an apple. apple. So eat the apple. There's fiber in there. And figure out what works for you. And what, you know, the biggest aha I had was I couldn't trust my body's signals when I was living an unhealthy life and eating the standard American diet because those were signals from bad bacteria. Those were signals from me having imbalanced neurotransmitters and imbalanced hormones. So— I couldn't be in tune and give my body what it needs because it was so confused. But when I cleaned everything up, wow, it all became so clear of what worked and what didn't for my body. So that's what I love seeing women is like, once they start fasting, they realize, oh my gosh, I feel so much better without this and that, and I feel so good eating meats, you know, all these clean proteins and healthy fats. Do you see that all the time in your women?

Absolutely. And it's when you're only eating 2 meals a day, you want to make them count. And you just, you, yeah, you get off that sugar roller coaster and you don't crave those foods anymore. And it, it takes some weeks. I mean, it's not like it's overnight, right? But yes, absolutely. You're not, and you're not having the snacks in between. But yes, that's why I always say, let's work on the protein first and get 100 grams in over the course of the day. And then you will go from there, you know, and then adding in, making sure you have a natural fat. And then if you want to add some fiber to the meal, just make sure it's in its whole form. And we also talk about, um, the order in which we eat foods too, because Plays a pretty big role in, in blood sugar control, blood sugar management, and insulin spikes. So, um, eating your fiber first, eating your protein and your fat first. And then if you do want to have some of those simple carbohydrates, cause I understand, I mean, I'm a realist. I mean, my daughter just had her birthday last weekend and I ate some gluten-free birthday cake that But like you said, I ate that and I'm like, holy crap, this is so sweet. I'm like, oh, I'm ill after 3, after 3 bites. But you know, there's a time and place for that. But I made sure I ate it at the end of my meal after I've already stimulated a blood sugar response and an insulin response rather than in between meals by themselves. And that's what I always tell people with fruit too. Like, don't eat naked fruit if you can help Like you don't want to eat your meal and then 2 hours later eat a pile of fruit and then eat a meal. Like you want to eat it at your meal and preferably at the tail end as your dessert, like you were saying, to help with blood sugar balance and getting a better blood sugar response, because that's going to set you up to not want to binge throughout the course of the day and to keep that level of blood sugar. And that's another, another thing. I don't think I mentioned that earlier when people are still working on 3 meals a day, And they're just getting into some intermittent fasting, making sure that first meal of the day is high protein. I'm like, you're going to eat 3 meals. That first meal, high protein, 10 carbs or less, because then you're going to have a blunted blood sugar response and you're not going to set yourself up for that roller coaster all day long. Because once you do that in the morning and your blood sugar skyrockets, it's going to plunge and you're just going to set yourself up for cravings and hunger all day long. So that's kind of step number one. When you work in nutrition.

Perfect. So much good information. Well, your book is in the show notes and you said you have some opt-in.

Yeah, I have. There's, if you go to my website, there's all, there's some freebies you can opt into. It's fasttoheal.info. There's some free guides to get started with intermittent fasting. And then I have a 28-day task calendar that just sets you up for like one thing every single day to work on that sets you up for a low insulin lifestyle. So that's there. Um, and then I mentioned I have a monthly membership program that includes, um, a monthly learning lesson with Q&A, but you also get a 15-minute mini session with me to work through some, any issues that you're dealing with. Um, I do do some personalized visits. Those are, um, I don't do a lot of those anymore, but I do have a couple of openings throughout the month. And then I have a bunch of— I have 3 different courses that people can go through, self-paced online courses. One's like a starter program where it's called Metabolic Makeover, where it just gives you the, you know, the skeleton things that we talked about in the book. in video form, me teaching, you know, how to find your fasting, how to find your therapeutic carb restriction, and then working through any stalls that you come. And then I have another course called Mealtime Make— Mealtime Mastery. I'm like, all of these M's. Which focuses on the eating window because people are challenged by that. So that one is not too much about fasting. That's what to eat one time once you actually open that eating window and how to balance your meals. how to work through sugar addiction. Um, that's in that one. And then I have my highest level course, which is called Finding Nutritional Peace, which is named after my book. And that's like everything. That's, that's the full gamut brain dump of whatever I know. And that's 6 learning modules. But those are all on my website. Yeah. Oh, and then my, my podcast is Fast to Heal Stories.

Awesome. Well, tons of great information. Hopefully everybody will check it out because This is how you heal, right? This is how you be healthy. This is how you lose weight. So thank you so much for sharing all of this today. I'm really excited to get this out into the world.

You're so welcome. It was so nice to be your guest.

Okay. I hope you got a ton of value out of that. That was so good. So many good nuggets. Like, my favorite is start your day off with protein. Don't buy into the fast, you know, the breakfast industry's crap about starting with cereal and bagels and muffins. All of that is just fancy sugar. It's literally just sugar and it puts you on the sugar roller coaster for the rest of the day. You need to start your day with protein and healthy fats. So that was my golden nugget reminder. To take away for the day, what was yours? I want to hear. Share it with me, and if you found value in this, I really hope that you'll share it with all the women in your life. We we have to come together as a community of women to lift each other up, to support each other, to be our best selves, and help each other reclaim our health, get healthy, be the amazing women. were created to be, because we're not on this earth to struggle and be miserable and frustrated and alone. So you don't have to be alone. You can join my Renew You Sisterhood where we give daily support and guidance and inspiration, and there's other women in the group that you can connect with, and it's a no-judgment zone. So no judgment from yourself, no judgment for other women. So I really hope that you will share this episode and consider joining my tribe, my sisterhood. But otherwise, go have an amazing kick-ass week. Like, take something, something you learned today, start incorporating it. Let me know how it goes, and I'll see you back here soon. All right, bye.