#135: The Truth About Surgery, Informed Consent, and Taking Ownership of Your Health with Christine Garvin

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Hi, I'm Dr. Tabatha, the Gutsy Gynecologist. I'm a triple board-certified OB-GYN and functional medicine physician. I've embraced the world of functional medicine and wellness through my own personal health journey, and I'm super excited to share my wisdom and unique perspective as it pertains to women's health. After caring for thousands of women, I've come to realize that your gut health determines your gyn health and your overall And it's a super gutsy thing for me to go against conventional gynecology practice to bring you the truth. No more Band-Aid medicine, ladies. We're talking root cause resolution on this show. So if you're struggling with hormone imbalance, weight gain, period issues, anxiety, insomnia, you name it, then you've come to the right place. And I want to be your gutsy gynecologist. So welcome. All right, ladies. I'm going to extend the conversation on fibroids today because I did an episode talking about what fibroids are, you know, all the basic statistics and facts regarding fibroids. But I wanted you to hear from someone who actually went through conventional treatment for her fibroids and, you know, she had a pretty extreme complication. But from that, she learned so much and now she's passing it on to you guys. So her passion is now helping women understand why fibroids are happening, what all of their options are, not just surgical options, and how to really get control of your hormones, get your gut health in balance, all that good stuff that we always talk about. And I really loved my conversation with her, my guest today, because it took a spiritual turn. It— we talked more about the mind-body-spirit-soul connection, and I think that we miss that piece a lot as women. And it's so foundational because we are more than just our body, and we are connected to each other and to the earth and To a higher power and all of that stuff. And it's so important to acknowledge that and to work on that piece of it because sometimes we can't heal until we do that work. So I'm really excited for my guest today, but I just wanted to do a shout out to somebody who gave me an awesome review. Let me read it. It says, the only gyno who gets it. So, woohoo! Love this show. Dr. Tabatha is the only OB-GYN I've heard really talk about the gut reproductive health connection. I love her positivity and her depth. Thank you so much, ANSPDX on Apple Podcasts. Um, that fills my heart. It makes it all worthwhile. That's why I do it, because I want you guys to know that there are other options besides what you're being told by your traditional doctor. I want you to stop and question. I want you to get in tune and listen to your body. And really take ownership that you are in charge of your health. You are your own physician. You are your own CEO of your health. And your doctors should just be your guides. They should have the tools to help you along the way. They should educate you and give you all of the options. You know, it's so— Common, unfortunately, for you to sign a consent form, say, for a surgical procedure, and it says right on there that the physician discussed the risks, benefits, and alternatives with you. And unfortunately, a lot of the doctors don't know the alternatives, so the alternatives are not discussed as an option. And so I would argue that's not really informed consent. That's limited consent of What they can do for you, and do you accept that as an option? So I just want you to know that informed consent is a big deal to me. You know, when I was 17 years old and I found out I was pregnant, I had to go on Medicaid and food stamps. And I was assigned a doctor for my pregnancy. I didn't have a doctor. You know, my family didn't have insurance when I was young. And I couldn't go to my pediatrician because now I was pregnant. And so I needed a doctor, and I was assigned an old guy who was on the verge of retirement who took Medicaid. And he made it clear that he, he did not want to take me on as a patient and that I was a nuisance and a bother. And so it was a rough 9 months, and it was a very traumatic delivery. And a lot of things were done to me that weren't explained. And looking back, I just go, oh my gosh, I wish I would have known better. But I didn't. And I didn't know to ask. I didn't know to speak up. I was usually alone at my appointments. No one came to the doctors with me. My mom was busy running her business, taking care of her kids. My friends were in school. My boyfriend was in college, so I didn't have a health advocate. I didn't have someone looking out for me as a person and giving me the knowledge and the information I needed to make the best choices for my life and for my health. And that actually is what drove me to becoming a physician, you know. So I've, I've gone through all of that, and it's really important to me that you have informed consent, that you know why things are being done to your body, why surgical procedures are being recommended and being performed on you, why organs are being removed, why you're given this medication month after month and you just keep taking it. You need to know why. So if you are uncomfortable with any of that, you need to speak up. And I know it's hard because doctors have the white coat on, right? They know best. That is traditionally how it's been, is you don't ask, you, you just take them at face value and you trust them. But unfortunately, doctors aren't trained to handle a lot of the new chronic illnesses that are associated With our environment and our lifestyle and our diets of all these Frankenfoods made by the food industry and all the environmental toxins that we are burdened with every day. We're not trained how to deal with that as doctors. And so this is all new territory, territory. And it's really important for you, if you're not comfortable with something, to speak up. I can't just— I cannot stress that enough. Like, it's your body. You need to say something. And if you are the type of person that just is not comfortable with that kind of confrontation, especially with an authority figure like a doctor, find a friend who is, or someone that can go to your appointments with you, or find another provider. Sometimes, you know, we go with the doctor that our insurance recommends or that our insurance covers, or that's closest to our house, that's down the street, or the doctor that's first available and easiest to get into. Like, we have all these reasons why we end up with the doctors that we end up with, and those might not be the right reasons. It might be time to reassess and say, you know what, I think it might be worth driving an hour to go see this doctor that I've heard about, or it might be worth trying doing telemedicine, or it might be worth, um, going an alternative holistic route. There's a naturopath that I keep hearing about. Like, consider going the alternative route if you are not getting the answers and you are not comfortable with what's being recommended to you. You know, I talk a lot about how conventional gynecology is failing women in so many ways, and there are other options and solutions out there. So I want you to be hopeful, but I also want you to be proactive and take back control of your health and your body and your life, because we cannot leave it in the hands of these white coat doctors. It's just not how we're ever going to be healthy as a society. Medicine was born out of illness. You know, it was created when we learned about infections and antibiotics were created, and we learned how to perform surgeries and remove organs. And so medicine was born out of a diseased state. It was never designed or created with the thought of making someone healthy or keeping someone healthy. So you have to remember that. And I would just encourage you to keep listening to podcasts like this. And my guest today has an awesome podcast called Hormonally Speaking. I'm going to be on there very soon. Um, and just keep educating yourself and don't be afraid to ask for support and take somebody with you if you need that as well. So. I hope you needed to hear that message today. I think somebody did. Um, and I just want you to understand why I do what I do, and it's because I've suffered. I've learned the hard way. I've struggled. I've been neglected. I've been almost abused in some situations. So I, I don't want you to go through all of that. I want you to have a better So thank you so much for trusting me and being here and listening and just enjoying the show and getting everything you can out of it. I do this for you. So just remember, you can always pause, you can stop it and come back to a podcast, you can listen to it again. I would encourage you to go back and start at episode 1, you know, Your Menstrual Cycle as a Vital Sign. And listen to all these episodes. So much amazing information, and you really do need all this information. That's why I bring it to you. So, and then pass it on to every lady that you know, because we are a sisterhood. We need to rise up and support each other, and we are in this together, right? This is a judgment-free zone. We don't compare. We just focus on doing what's best for us and our sisters. So. I'm excited to introduce my guest because when I heard her, I was like, I love everything she's doing. We're on the same page. It's just beautiful and incredible. And so I know you're going to love her as well. Let me just sing her praises. Christine Garvin. She's a functional nutritionist based in Asheville, North Carolina. She weaves together her personal health journey, including a fibroid surgery that nearly killed her, with her training in functional health, nutrition, and hormones to help women heal their gut and achieve hormone balance. She's been featured in Health magazine, Shape, Parade magazine, and MSN. She's the host of the podcast Hormonally Speaking, and she works with clients all over the world via Zoom, like I do. She offers group programs for gut healing and hormone health. So definitely check her out. The links are in the show notes. She's got a YouTube channel like I do, and I'm going to be on her podcast soon. So, so much good information. Let's get on with this conversation. It is awesome. Well, welcome, Christine, to the Gutsy Gynecologist Show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and chatting with you.

Yes. I think that your story is going to be so compelling for my listeners to hear, and they're going to connect with you because I keep hearing from women over and over again, what are my options? Surgery seems to be my only option. Why is this stuff happening to me? And they're just not getting answers from their conventional gynecologist. And your story is like the epitome of that problem.

Yeah.

When I heard it, it just broke my heart because so much of that could have been avoided with some basic discussion and communication, I feel like.

100%. Yeah.

I'm so glad that you took your pain, turned it into purpose. You're on this beautiful mission to help women, and I just appreciate it so much.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, a lot of people have said to me, wow, you really use this in a good way. But I have to believe that there was a purpose for it happening to me. And I'm definitely not one to sort of keep quiet. And I get— I understand some people aren't ready to sort of take that into the world after a big trauma happens. So, you know, nothing against anybody that's not ready to sort of talk about that and share that experience. But yeah, right.

And I think that's what you're for. You're for those types of people who really just need some guidance and some hope that there is life after complications and things that you didn't plan and they just happen. So tell us your story. How did all of this come about? You were just living life and you got diagnosed with a fibroid?

Yeah. Well, so basically I was— I'm trying to remember. I think I was 39 at the time, but probably my period had started changing. about a year before that. So in '38, which your listeners probably know, this is when hormonally things start to shift for a lot of women. But we're not necessarily tuned into that because things may still be regular and that kind of thing. My period had actually been very regular for a lot of years. And then suddenly I started having my period about 5 days earlier each month. It kept going back 5 days early and I started bleeding profusely. At the time, I was a dance instructor and performer and had a dance school. And but I had done, you know, training in my 20s around holistic health education, nutrition, and all those kinds of things. So I was tuned in enough to know, okay, so this is probably something perimenopausal related, you know. And so I just kind of thought, oh, things are starting to go wacky early for me. Finally, one day I was actually getting ready to go to dance practice and I was on my period and I put my Diva Cup in and it did not actually go all the way in. And so I was like, what's going on in here?

Something's off.

So I did a little digging and I felt something that I knew hadn't been there before. And so, of course, the first thing that you think is like, oh my God, cancer. And you're just freaking out. I would say to women, just if that situation ever occurs to you, if you feel something, usually it's not cancer. Unfortunately, with cancer, we don't have a lot of indications until further along in the game. It's usually some kind of growth that's happening. I ended up going— I couldn't get in with my regular doctor. I ended up going to another one who tried to convince me I felt my cervix. She's like, oh, I think this is your cervix. I was like, it's not my cervix.

My word.

I know how things feel.

It didn't feel like that last month.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I was like, it's been a few years and that was not there. Finally, I think she found some indication of it and then sent me for an ultrasound. That's when I learned I had a fibroid. To be honest, I don't think I'd heard of fibroids before that. I find that's true with many women. That until you find out you have one, you don't know that you have one or you've never heard of it before.

Yeah.

And so at that point, it was about 6 centimeters, which is about the size of a lemon, is what they say. And I went to my gynecologist, who actually is a DO, and she has some functional training. And of course, she told me sort of some of the options, which one of them being an estrogen blocker. That's what a lot of doctors will go to. I don't remember if we talked about birth control as an option, but I know a lot of doctors will say, put you on a progestin. We talked about the different surgical options. At that point, I was reading up and I was like, oh, a myomectomy, which is when they just go in and remove the fibroid and leave the uterus intact, sounded like the best option for me because I did recognize that it was sort of A little bit larger at that point, and it was causing— I had anemia at that point. It actually was located where it pushed out my coccyx bone. So it was kind of a big joke when I was teaching dance that I was growing a tail before we knew what it was.

So funny, right?

Right, right, exactly. You're like, okay, this, you know, it's, it's so funny to look back and think about what we thought, but At that point, I was like, okay, I want it out. I didn't know, obviously, then what I know now in terms of where they stem from, how you can work with them, how things could have changed. Though I will say I did end up using bioidentical progesterone for the couple of months between finding out I had the fibroid and the surgery, and it did help to reregulate my cycle. So that's the good part. And then the other side of it, I have to be honest with people, was by the time I did get the fibroid out, it was larger. So I always give that caveat with women that bioidentical progesterone is not always going to be the answer for fibroids, because I think that that is something that is kind of out there if you read around. But we do know that they can have progesterone receptors on the fibroid along with estrogen receptors. And I can talk more about that later. But yeah, so basically, I ended up deciding on the myomectomy because even though, you know, I will say this a little aside too, so many doctors will say hysterectomy, right, if you don't want kids anymore.

Right.

And I knew that I didn't want kids. And they really pushed for that because they say, well, the fibroids will come back, you know, and this whole idea that we only need our uterus to produce children is just mind-blowing to me.

Yeah.

And I'm sure that you've encountered this a lot with patients that come to you. But I really was like, I believe that we get this thing out, I keep my uterus, everything's going to be good. And myomectomy is supposed to be a relatively easy surgery. I had a laparoscopic one. It's supposed to be a little bit more complicated than a hysterectomy because obviously They go and they cut the fibroid out of your uterus versus with hysterectomy, they just take the whole thing out. So, you know, versus I think if I had done a hysterectomy, I would have just had a day surgery. But with a myomectomy, they did keep you, you know, kept me overnight. But they said surgery went perfectly. Everything looked good. I will say I woke up the next morning and felt very off and felt like something was wrong. But I'd never had surgery before.

Hmm.

And so, you know, you just sit there and you're like, oh, I'm just— I'm in pain because I just had surgery, you know? But looking back, I really— there was some part of me that knew that something was wrong. Um, then we went into— I went home. And the thing is, I had the surgery done at a hospital that was about 4 hours away from my hometown because They are the premier center of laparoscopic gynecological surgeries in the Southeast. I won't name the name as I don't. But so the drive home, you know, I didn't feel good. The next few days it was just like, okay, I'm trying to come back from the surgery and that's normal, right? To not feel that great for the first couple of days. But even though my stomach started to go down, you know, from the bloating from the surgery a bit, it still just— things weren't working really well. And basically Fast forward to 2 whole weeks, right? And I kept telling myself, oh, I'm getting better, even though I wasn't. And this is another thing I point out to women. If you are still feeling bad 3 to 4 days after a surgery, go to the ER. Do not pass go. Just go to the ER because sepsis is a real possibility. If a surgery went wrong. And that is exactly what happened to me. And this is a pretty— I don't want to say common, but it is a known risk complication of the possibility of what they call nicking or kind of cutting into a local organ, whether that be your colon or your bladder. And obviously sepsis can really set in. pretty fast for people and, and do some real damage pretty quickly. When I got to the ER and they determined that I had sepsis, they couldn't believe that I had gone 2 weeks since the surgery. Um, they actually told me— I remember after I did my CT scan, a doctor came in and his face was white, which is obviously very scary when a doctor comes in.

Yeah.

And he said, we can't actually believe that you are the same person that we're seeing on these test results. We can't believe that you actually walked in here because you shouldn't have been able to walk in here.

And most people who have what you have are doubled over in pain.

Yeah.

They're not standing upright. They're, you know, in complete miserable pain, fevers, the whole works.

Yes. Yes. And I was definitely in pain, but it's crazy because I, looking back, I understood that I had fevers. it during the, the, you know, 2 weeks, but I just didn't. I was so out of it, I didn't even really put it together. Um, and so I was actually past the point. So my temperature was normal. My, um, oh, what's the other thing that they always look for? There's temp, one other thing I can't think of. But then what signaled them was my heart rate. My resting heart rate was really crazy. Um, and so at that point I learned later, like, you're— I was very close to basically some of my organs shutting down, you know, because my body was just working so hard. And so, long story short, they had to roll me into emergency surgery. They— and that's when they figured out that I'd been burned in 3 places in my intestines during that surgery, obviously unknowingly. But they ended up having to cut out half of my colon. Because it couldn't be saved. The ER doc told me later that it was like trying to sew back together ground beef.

Mm-hmm.

So out comes half the colon. I lost about 8 inches of small intestine, my ileocecal valve, appendix. So lots of stuff in there, right? And they ended up giving me a temporary ileostomy. So for those that don't know what that is, basically, when you— if you've ever heard of somebody having a bag Where your stool comes out into that bag on your stomach. I had that and a mucous fistula and lots of other things going on. I had 2 emergency surgeries that weekend and had to fight for my life.

That's a huge deal. I really want women to understand the gravity of when your surgeon or gynecologist says to you, you could have a bowel or bladder injury. You had a bowel injury.

Yep.

You had a thermal burn to your bowels. And the problem with thermal burns is that they continue after they've started. So if I have a hot instrument that I'm burning blood vessels with and cutting out that fibroid with, if I touch your bowel with that, it continues to burn it and it spreads. And it takes a while for that damage to really progress into what ends up being a hole in your bowel. And then, like you said, your stool goes out into your abdomen and causes a major infection. And that's what ended up happening for you. And I love pointing out to women that there's no compartments in our abdomen. Our bowels live right on top of our pelvic organs, so anything can affect anything. The bowels lay right on the ovaries and the fallopian tubes and the uterus. And they are all free game to be injured and affected by infection and surgery and everything. So unfortunately, your story isn't that uncommon. You know, you went to the extreme, I think, because you have such a high pain tolerance and somehow you lasted so long. Most people are in the ER a little bit sooner, but unfortunately, bowel and bladder injuries are really common.

Yeah.

With laparoscopic surgery. And I will say, the more prominent the institution, the more likely they are to be a teaching institution.

Yeah.

Therefore, you have residents and medical students performing surgery. And so the complications are a little bit higher. So that is one point that I don't think a lot of women realize is, I'm going to the best place with the best people. Yeah, those best people are teaching other people. So that is another key point. But I just—

Absolutely.

I love that you fought your way through, you figured it all out, and then you're sharing this with women. Because I think we are quick to just jump in and have our organs removed and have surgery for a fix. And, you know, I've heard you on other podcasts talking about like sometimes you do have to have surgery. You know, I was mentioning this in my fibroid episode, like, sometimes they are too big to shrink on their own because you're losing blood and you're getting anemic and it's affecting work and life and— or you're having bladder leakage and constipation because the fibroid is so big that it's blocking things. So we're not saying no surgery, right?

Right.

Like, we're just saying, like, be informed, understand the possible complications, and don't hesitate to reach out and say, Something's wrong. Something's going on here, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I feel like you just explained what happened to me in the most beautiful way that I've ever heard, because I don't— that, like, explaining how the thermal process works, you know, and, and that those burns— that's exactly really what happened to me, right? Was a small burn that they didn't notice that over those 2 weeks expanded. Right. And so who knows at what point things started dumping into my abdominal cavity. But I think a lot of people can't visualize exactly. So thank you for doing that because I'm like, that's the best version I've ever heard explained to me about it.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think a lot of women understand laparoscopic surgery. We're putting instruments in your abdominal cavity that look like long tubes with the instrument on the very end, like little Scissors, little burn instruments, scalpels, different things. And they're only 5 to 1 centimeter, so 5 millimeters to 1 centimeter long. So they're like the size of your fingernail.

Wow.

But you have energy going through there. You were using energy to burn things. And we didn't do that in traditional open surgery. It was a lot of cutting with cold scalpels and tying with suture knots and things like that, whereas laparoscopic We use a ton of thermal energy, so there's a lot of potential for burns. And I don't think that's really understood, you know, for most people and even some doctors. Like, if you talk to a family practice doctor, I don't think they really understand, like, what's happening in the surgery. Only surgeons really can get that.

Right.

So I think it's important for women to say, like, How is this surgery going to be done? You know, have some idea of going in because we just take for granted and we just sign up for whatever, you know?

Absolutely. Yeah. And the informed consent piece, I think, is missing a lot of the time. I mean, I've had people say to me, you know, on social media, sometimes they're getting ready to go into a surgery. They're like, I'm sorry what happened to you, but like, this is not common at all. And I say, you know, if you've decided on surgery, like 100%, go in with, you know, the best energy and intention around that. You know, most of them will be fine. But if you really want to know what's going on, you know, get in an ostomy support group. There are way too many women in there that have had a gynecological surgery, whether that be a hysterectomy or myomectomy or something else. lead to having an ostomy. So, it is something that— and there is, I've done some research and there are a few studies that show the rates. I feel like some of the studies aren't that recent, so I feel like they need to do some more, especially as you're talking about laparoscopic being used more often and these thermal tools being used more often.

Yeah, exactly. I think It's common for women to be told there's a possibility of a bladder injury because the bladder literally is connected to the uterus. It lays on the front of the uterus and has like this fold that has to be separated off. So they are kind of connected in a more intimate way than the bowels. So surgeons are more apt to talk about bladder injuries, but bowel injuries are just as important. Well, I would argue they're more important because the effects of the complication of infection and sepsis are much bigger than a bladder injury. So bladder injuries we usually catch pretty quick.

Right. Actually, I just had a client who had to get a J pouch recreated and they actually nicked her bladder during surgery but saw that, right? And so they were able to fix it in that time. But it was a reminder how often these things do happen. And I saw CT scan or something later of a picture of how close the colon is to the uterus, right? If you think, in general, women's— I mean, it's just our bodies have to house a lot in a really small area down there.

Yeah.

Everything is really close and there's barely any room in between them. It's like, well, yeah, it makes sense, especially if you're going in there with just cameras. And everything and not seeing all of the little things that can happen.

Yeah. There's over 20 feet of small intestines alone that have to be jam-packed in there. And literally your colon and your intestines move. They peristalse, they contract. So they are moving during surgery. And we try to get the bowels out of the way, but sometimes they like to be in the way.

Yes, absolutely.

Really common issue. We probably taught everybody a lot of stuff today. Hopefully more than they ever need to know. Hopefully no one else encounters this, but unfortunately there will probably be a few women. So this is really helpful. And I just want to talk about like the amazing things you created out of this because you went on to say women need to know what's going on with their bodies.

Mm-hmm.

And let's talk a little bit about the fact that you had this hormone imbalance that was driving your Fibroid growth, right? So I think women want to understand that a little bit more. So let's unpack that.

Well, you know, one of the biggest things that happened after all this, and I had, you know, I couldn't work for a year, so I really had some time to think about, well, what do I want to do next? Because it took my dance career away from me. Obviously, I couldn't dance, you know, with— I had a, as I mentioned, ostomy. I had a wound back for a couple of months. And so that was out the door. So, you know, When I went through this experience and thought, well, what do I want to do with it? Really, it came down to I want to know why I had the fibroid in the first place. Right. And so I want to learn as much as I can about hormones because I understand that that is a hormonal imbalance. And while it's certainly not simplistic at all, and that I've worked with many women with fibroids now, and there's definitely a lot of angles that we need to come in. So I'll kind of talk about, I feel like, what's The most important aspects. So first, estrogen, you know, and I say this with the caveat because I was in this mindset forever, like estrogen is bad. And it's like, no, right? We need estrogen. We love estrogen. Talk to a woman that has just hit menopause and has no estrogen. Like, it's so important for our brain health, our bone health, our heart health, so many things, right? Feeling vibrant, our skin looking good, et cetera. So it's not about estrogen. It's about how out of control estrogen has had a chance to become versus your progesterone levels. And in my experience, I mean, they're connected, they go hand in hand, but it's not even really just about your estrogen levels, but it's how your body is metabolizing the estrogen.

Yes.

Right? This is what I look to first and foremost, because the thing is, once you start metabolizing your estrogen properly, Your estrogen, your overall estrogen levels or your estradiol will usually level out on its own, right? It's because the metabolism is not happening in the way that it needs to be happening in your liver and your phase 1 and phase 2 detox, and then in your gut, what we call phase 3. And so one of the things that I recognized pretty quickly in starting to do the DUTCH test For those that don't know, that's a hormone test, a dried urine test, is seeing how my estrogen was metabolizing. And I definitely, I was actually struggling in both phases, both phase 1 and phase 2. I kind of ricocheted back and forth between favoring what's called the 4-OH pathway and then the 16-OH pathway. So a lot of times people, or you'll read that you'll favor the 16-OH pathway with fibroids and ovarian cysts and things that grow essentially, right? Because that 16-OH is about sort of the growth factor. But honestly, I've seen just as many women favor that 4-OH pathway with fibroids too. Oh yeah, sure. So, you know, that's the first thing that I look for at this point with women with fibroids. And then, you know, you want to often The goal is to push that estrogen down the 2OH, more protective pathway, away from that 4OH and 16OH pathways. But a lot of times women will maybe upregulate what we call that phase 1, but don't do enough support of the phase 2, right? And we want to make sure, because phase 1 is really about taking, you know, whatever kind of toxin, and if estrogen hangs around in your body for too long, it's essentially a toxin. taking that toxin and making it a little less toxic in phase 1, right? But phase 2 is where we're getting into making it water soluble. So it's really— that's the place where things become the least toxic. And so you want to make sure both of those phases are working well. And then phase 3 too, you know. So, so often I think it's forgotten about that phase 3, which— because once you're liver has metabolized that estrogen and done all that hard work, it puts it in the bile, bile goes into your gut, into your colon, and then you want all of that to go out of your body, right? But unfortunately, if your microbiome is off, then of course that estrogen can end up recirculating in the system basically. And then your liver has to do all that hard work all over again. So you can't just focus on the liver. You absolutely have to focus on your intestines, your colon too, and often start You want to make sure that's working.

You're speaking my language.

Yes.

That's why I call myself the gutsy gynecologist. I tried to just focus on hormones for so long because that's how I was trained and the Band-Aid approach. And nothing ever improves until you heal the gut. It's just 100% the truth of it.

Absolutely. Yep. Yep. It's like all of the toxic elements that we have to deal with need to get out via our bowels, right? I mean, that's really— they are there to just get all that stuff out. So if that's not working properly, then toxins are just going to be hanging out in your body, and that's when they wreak havoc and your poor liver has to work even harder. Yeah.

So we need to focus on the gut. We need to focus on the liver. What's the other thing driving fibroids and hormone imbalances that you see all the time?

Adrenals. And this is actually probably what I feel like was the biggest aspect for me. Certainly not to take away from gut and liver issues, even though my gut was actually pretty good at the time. But Adrenal dysregulation is what we call it right now. Um, we used to call it adrenal fatigue, um, even though I, I wasn't ever at the fatigued place. I was more at sort of that high cortisol output still, you know. Eventually our body will downregulate and make it low, but I was definitely dysregulated. And I had, you know, as I see many of my clients, you know, I had my own business. Um, I was just overdoing it on all ends. I was actually just talking about this this weekend. I didn't allow my emotional self to come out because I had to hold it all together all of the time. Right. So there was a lot of suppression of emotions going on at that time, which actually does impact our adrenals and lots of other parts of our body. But I also was an overgiver, and I think that's huge. Women across the board. Yeah. You know, in my situation with my business, I was like overgiving and overgiving and felt, you know, I had to do all these things all the time. And so my boundaries were essentially nonexistent. And this is one of the biggest things that I teach my clients and women in my programs now, like learning how to set boundaries and understanding what boundaries look like. Not just like— I think a lot of people say, oh, just say no, just say no to things. And it's like, okay, let's break that down a little further. Because some— a lot of the times it's saying no to ourselves, you know.

Exactly.

It's like setting these boundaries within ourselves, um, and that can be harder to parse out. So I think it's helpful to have either a therapist or in a program with other people to really get down to the nitty-gritty of where you are boundaryless. Because if you think about that, it's like everything is just being sucked out of you and you're not getting anything in return. And those adrenals are just like Running, running, running, trying to keep up, right? And eventually, as I mentioned, they're going to downregulate because the brain is smart, the body's smart, and it's like this isn't working, so we're gonna stop doing that. And that's when you have women that struggle to get out of bed, you know, and often continue to push, and the body's like, and for me, I feel that that component, just because there, you know, there's connections with cortisol and estrogen too. But I just felt like it really fed my fibroid on kind of an emotional soul level too. So it's like, it gets a little esoteric, but—

No, it's a total metaphor. Like the fact that fibroids don't respect the boundaries of the uterus muscle, they continue to grow beyond what they're supposed to grow because they don't have any boundaries. And It, it's clear in the literature that fibroids and other pelvic conditions are associated with trauma earlier in life. And so if you have all these suppressed feelings, you're suppressing them in your pelvis and you don't have boundaries, those things do grow. You get fibroids, you get endometriosis. We've seen it time and time again. The studies just pan out and We don't have the good physiology to explain it as of yet, but it's there. And so we do need to acknowledge that because that's how women heal, is they work on that right piece of it, right?

Yes, 100%. And, and honestly, if you don't, they'll keep growing, they'll keep being there, they'll come back, you know. And, and I'm glad you brought up that trauma component because it's not just about the everyday stress or, you know, boundaries setting in your life. Now, it is about processing trauma in whatever way that works for you, you know. So personally, I really like somatic therapy because I feel like the issues are in our tissues, you know, and really working with a skilled therapist who knows how to help you process it and, um, and so that you don't re-traumatize, essentially, you know.

Yeah.

There's different things that work for different people, but I'm a big proponent of that. I just don't— I think that the body will keep calling to you via the growth of these fibroids and other things. You know, a lot of times women will have ovarian cysts along with fibroids or fibrocystic breasts. And so it's super important. And I will say that my biggest blog post is actually the spiritual aspect of fibroids that I think women are on a deep level know.

Yeah.

But that is a big part of it and know that there's some changes that need to be made.

Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad that you're tackling that issue and that women are seeking that out because like that piece for me makes so much sense. I just think we are mind, body, spirit, and so much of what's going on in our soul manifests Physically. And we all have skeletons in our closet. We all have something that nags us in the back of our mind that we might not be thinking about outrightly, consciously on a daily basis, but our subconscious is stewing over that and creating—

Yep.

Toxic chemicals in our cells that cause ourselves to go rogue and create tumors and Until you, like, process that crap and just actually deal with it, those diseases will continue to fester. And we just— we live in a society that we just want to pretend none of that exists, you know?

Yeah.

That our soul is separate from our body, that our brain is separate from our body, and it's all a bunch of crap. Like, everything's interconnected, and it's so important to tackle those pieces.

You know, and I think, you know, what I said about going through suppressing my own emotions during that time of trying to build my business and all of that, I see that with women all the time. You know, they're like, I have to be strong because I am the caretaker, the breadwinner, the doing it all, this whole like hustle mentality that we got into. You know, I'd say like things have shifted since COVID although it's gotten worse for some women, but like—

Right.

Pre-COVID, right? There was this like five-year period of like, what's your side hustle? Like, what's the you know? And of course, it's become harder because for survival, for some people, they need multiple things that they're doing. You know, to bring in money and those kinds of things. But it's such a trap, right? It's such a trap. And you know, I totally get it. I have women come to me and they're like, instead of what pill can I take, like what supplement can I take? Right.

They're swapping it out.

Right. And I'm like, you can take all the supplements, you can eat the perfect diet, quote unquote, you can work out, which is what I see a lot of women do, right? They're like, okay, I'm doing all these things. And that's part of the issue too, right? It's like you're trying to sort of keep this regimented thing, and this is not really what your body is calling you to do. Right. It's, it's calling for reconnection, really.

Exactly. I think we want to be in control of every aspect, and we completely ignore that there's a higher power and a bigger reason for us being here. And we just want to make it simple, materialistic, like, yeah, let's just enjoy life. And there's so much more to it. And if your soul doesn't feel like it's getting what it needs, if you're not feeding your soul, It's gonna be sick.

So exactly, you know, and I have to be reminded this by other people all the time too. I just saw a practitioner last week where it kind of brought it back for me, right? We're here to actually enjoy life. And it doesn't feel like that a lot of the time, right? Because we're just kind of slogging through our days. And this is not the purpose of any of us being here to like slog through our days to get to this like place in the future. You know, it's like, that's old programming. That's old ideas, you know, that keeps people stuck and keeps people sick.

Yeah, exactly. And you, you hit on the words have to, like, I have to do this. I hear so many of my patients telling me why they have to keep their job and not move on, why they have to stay in this broken relationship. Like, they have— we all have the Excuses. I do the same thing.

100%.

This is where you have to— you have to get mindful and aware of the words that you're using because they're so powerful in creating the actions that change your future. And so I would encourage women to start doing some of this deeper work and not just Google, like, what do I physically need to do to fix my fibroids and my pelvic issues and my hormone imbalances? What do I need to heal my spirit on a deeper level, you know, to get myself back into balance? Wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely, 100%. And I did an interview for my podcast last week that I thought was so important and poignant to remember too, is that, you know, when our body does call to us, it is asking us to go on a journey of deep healing, right? And that It's really scary, because sometimes it does mean quitting your job. Sometimes it does mean leaving that partner. Sometimes it, you know, it's what seems like the hardest decision and the impossible decision. But when we make it, it opens up a whole different world. And when you come out on the other side, you're just amazed by the life that you have now, you know. And so I know how hard that is. When you're sitting there and you're like, but I can't. I don't want to make these changes. This is going to be horrendous. I've been there so many times, and I will say that again in my life. But it's actually incredible when you do, I think, follow your body's signals. And often it is those deep, scary changes that are going to take you to the best places.

Yeah. That is literally the only way I was able to heal was to give up my amazing job as an attending that took me so long to get and staff position and director of the department and give up the security of the salary and the 401 and all of that stuff. But it was killing me. It was very toxic. And that was a super hard decision. And I will tell you, being on the other side, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Yeah.

I'm so happy I did it. And it was the scariest thing I've ever done because I was the breadwinner. I had to pay the bills, take care of my family. But if you have faith and you know that the world is there for your good and things are going to go in your favor, then you don't have to worry about it. Like, it will work out. I truly believe that.

Absolutely. And I do think we are at a time in history where this is coming up big time for women, right? It is like the time where the universe, what have you, is calling us to really step into ourselves, step into what we want our lives to be, step into the future that we want to create, not just internally but externally, right? Because we all know that there's a lot of crap out there right now, that things aren't going away that most people aren't happy with, you know. And so really connecting to what your body is telling you, you know, connecting to— I mean, in whatever way that works for you, you know. Some people it's meditation, some people it's visualization, sometimes it's working with different practitioners that can kind of get you there, you know. Like, I need help a lot of times to get to that spiritual side, even though I know it's a big part of me, you know. And so like working with a practitioner to help me get there is is such a big part. And I just always feel like, honestly, after, you know, those sessions, because it brings me back to where everything's connected, right? And nature, like, we've hurt nature so much, and we continue to sort of use and abuse nature. And it's like, nature is us, you know, and we can't continue to do that and be healthy. And I feel like For me personally, I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains in North Carolina, and I feel so lucky because I go out there and I hike, and just getting out there and hiking is like worth 10 massages. I mean, it's such a beautiful thing. And I know not everybody has that ability to go outside and have such, you know, beauty. And obviously it's very hot right now in lots of parts of the world. But finding time to really be in nature is so incredibly healing because we're, we're meant to be. We are nature, you know.

Exactly. I love that. I love that. For me, it's water. Like, I need to be in Lake Michigan or some kind of body of water, feel the sand, those types of things.

I also love that too. Yeah.

You have to find what just feeds your soul and connects you back to the earth. I think that's so important.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah.

I hope that somebody out there listening today is just like, you know what? I do need to feed my inner child. I need to do that inner work. I need to figure out why I have dysfunction in my body. And maybe it's more than just the supplements I'm taking or not taking or the food I'm eating or not eating.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh. If women are feeling compelled and they want to work with you, how can they find you?

So you can go to my website, which is christinegarvin.com. And I have options to work with me one-on-one. I also have some self-guided programs. I actually have a— if you're just kind of learning you have a fibroid or maybe you know somebody that has a fibroid and you don't know enough about your options, yet, I do have a Fibroids 101 course that covers all of the sort of surgical but natural approaches. And I feel like my goal with that is to empower women to really understand all of their options and start doing stuff to support. And I definitely talk about the spiritual side in there. I talk about— we didn't get into xenoestrogens, but chemicals in our environment that also impact our estrogen levels and particularly plastic and things that we, you know, shampoos and things that we wash our face with and all those kinds of things. So I go over all of those. So that's a great place to start if you are interested. And then I also have another— I'll be doing my Hormone Breakthrough Blueprint program again this fall, which is a 10-week program that kind of dives into all of the good stuff about getting your hormones into Check. Yeah, particularly in that 30s and 40s range where things start going a little wacky. There's so many foundations that we're missing out on and understanding more about our gut and our adrenals and liver. And we go into all of that.

Awesome. Okay, so all that's in the show notes. You guys need to check that out. That's amazing. Oh my gosh, thank you so much. You're doing amazing work and I hope everybody Follows you on Instagram and checks you out because you're awesome.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was awesome talking to you.

Okay, I know you got something out of that episode. That was so good. Oh my gosh. Send me a message. Let me know what you got out of it. I know there was some amazing golden nuggets that you're going to take with you and start incorporating in your life. I know for me, I always need that reset button. I always need that reminder that, hey, you got to do the inner work. You got to look deeper. You have to reconnect with your higher power. You know, I go to church. I listen to the word. I read the living, breathing word of the Bible. Like, that does it for me. That keeps me alive and keeps me grounded and, um, focused on my bigger mission in life so that I don't get caught up in the day-to-day struggles and fears and worries of all the stuff that always balances out and works out. Like, I don't need to waste my time and energy on all of that stuff because I know at the core God's got this. God's got me. My life is, you know, planned out For me, things are always in my best interest, and if bad things come my way, that it will work out. Like, that is just a core belief that I have that is called faith, right? And that gets me through. And so you— if you haven't, I would encourage you to figure out what is your core belief about you on this earth at this time right now in existence and how you're connected with being here in your higher power and why you're here and what it all means. And I know that sounds really deep, but at a basic level, you should know, like, do you really think you're here for suffering and pain and struggle? Do you really think that you're here to repeat the same mistakes and, you know, not live an amazing, beautiful life. Like, some people really feel cursed, or they feel like they're supposed to struggle their entire life and never get ahead. Um, and I just don't believe that. I believe that we are supposed to learn our lessons And move forward. But we also have to believe that there's better opportunities and that there is a better future and that there's not more of the same. Because think about it, like, when we wake up in the morning, our brain immediately starts thinking of all the things that we need to do, all the things that we didn't finish yesterday. Then we start having the feelings that we had yesterday and the day before and the day before. And literally the majority of people on this earth repeat the feelings and actions from the day before. And so literally we live in the past and we don't grow and move forward the majority of our life. That, that daily grind and routine is us living in our past, repeating our past, because we're not stopping to be thoughtful enough to say, let's have a different thought process, let's create different actions that lead to different behaviors that result in different outcomes. And so that is what I want to get you to do, is I want you to start having an inkling of, huh, if I change the way I think as soon as I wake up in the morning, maybe I'll change my actions. Maybe my actions will turn into better, different habits that are healthier and more aligned with what I want as a person in this life, and then that will change my future outcome. Okay, like, this is some deep stuff. This is all Joe Dispenza. If you want to go and read and watch and study Joe Dispenza, I would encourage you to do that. Like, it's life-changing to really delve into the idea that you have control of your future. You have control of what's happening. And this is my theme for this episode: you have control What happens with your body. You have control of what people do to your body, what they don't do to your body. And if— and at the very least, you have control of how you respond to what things were done to your body. That's what I learned as a 17-year-old girl is, okay, they irradiated my thyroid. I didn't understand what I was signing up for. I laid on the table, I got injected with stuff. They changed the course of my life because I didn't know any better to speak up. But I know how to act going forward. I know how to change things. I know how to respond to what was done to me. And if you can learn those lessons and shift and change and do something different next time Or help other people do something different. That's what it's all about. So I know this is deep, and I, I apologize— I don't apologize, I take that back. I do want you to do this work. It is a little bit uncomfortable, and maybe you're driving with your kids in the car, or maybe you thought you were just going for a light walk and listening to how to like take supplements for my fibroids. But I promise you, you need to think about this stuff. So if this isn't the time, come back and do it later, you know, or, or look at work of Joe Dispenza, or open the Bible and start reading like how people are truly meant to live. And I, I think that you're going to be pleasantly surprised that once you are living in alignment with what your soul wants to do, your body starts to feel better and gets healthy because it is functioning. It's not fighting against all of that dysfunction and dis-ease in your soul. So let me know what you think. I, I'm a work in progress, and I'm just sharing with you as I go and what I learned because I I think it's so important. Um, so I want to hear about you and what you're learning and what you're dealing with, and let me know if this is helpful to you. So I love you, ladies, and you got this. All right, go have a kick-ass week.